was made even more evident watching yesterday's games.
Reese has made it clear (both in spoken word and action) that the positions of Linebacker and Tight End are of not high priorities. Now, I am not suggesting Reese doesn't think they aren't important but he record reflects his belief that these two positions can be addressed mostly by finding veterans off the scrap heap and attempting to develop little-known, unheralded rookies over time.
The results have varied over the years (can't discount contributions from guys like Blackburn when he was brought back in 2011, the journeyman Brinkley last season, Ballard, and the emergence of Tye as a quality backup) but undeniably, this so-called "strategy" has been proven wrong and costly.
When you look at the impact Owen Daniels and Greg Olsen having in their respective passing games, the plays all over the field Keuchly, Davis, and Travathan make, and compare it to the way the Giants function at these positions, it's almost as if you're watching another sport.
If Reese hasn't learned this already, he must realize the importance of Linebackers and Tight Ends in today's NFL. He needs to be read the riot act by Mara behind closed doors that these positions MUST be upgraded significantly or be he'll shown the door.
Does anyone disagree?
I know and yet there will be tons more of this before FA and the draft..
Tye had 464 yards and 3 td's in 13 games despite being a raw rookie. Now I understand what your saying in regards to the LB position but I don't think TE is a top need. MLB is our second biggest need IMO after DE.
You just proved my point. Unless the top rated linebacker falls to the Giants (which it never does), they have to go into the season with a bunch of pedestrian retreads and subpar rookies? What kind of excuse is that!
What good is having a guy #1 on your board when you don't have a chance at him?!
You sound as lost and foolish as Reese!
But if anything, Reese has been VINDICATED regarding Tight End. Again and again, Eli has turned bums into diamonds. Boss, Ballard, Donnell, Tye... nature of the position has a short life span anyway. Hard for them to stay on the field. Lots of injuries to TE's.
Nowhere in my original post did I mention 1st round of the draft specifically, as that is not the one and only place to find a quality linebacker. I am not saying draft a linebacker with the first pack no matter what. I am also not suggesting that if you don't have a good option in the first round then to downgrade the importance of acquiring a good player at the position.
If there is a viable option in the 2nd or 3rd round, go get him! If there is a stud RFA or UFA linebacker that fits the Giants needs, GO GET HIM!
Yes, they cost $ and potentially draft picks but nothing is more costly than negligence, which Reese is surely guilty of in this regard.
Reese has had to draft to fill holes over and over again in our roster due to an outlier amount of injuries.
no GM can hope to fill rosters spots if 22 players are on IR each year.
it is impossible
Reese is a disaster and as each year unfolds it becomes increasingly clear. Mara said it best:we've lost credibility. These guys (reese) no longer deserve the benefit of the doubt
You conveniently ignore the 2007 team had a PRO BOWL middle linebacker in Pierce, who was a key component and leader of the defense.
Reese is a disaster and as each year unfolds it becomes increasingly clear. Mara said it best:we've lost credibility. These guys (reese) no longer deserve the benefit of the doubt
Hi Thomas, how's pretending to be an insider working out for you?
Actually he let one of the better LBs he brought in leave the team with no adequate replacement when he let Kawika Mitchell walk after one season with the GIANTS.
Actually he let one of the better LBs he brought in leave the team with no adequate replacement when he let Kawika Mitchell walk after one season with the GIANTS.
Yup. 2 Super Bowls disaster as a GM
Actually he let one of the better LBs he brought in leave the team with no adequate replacement when he let Kawika Mitchell walk after one season with the GIANTS.
I loved what Mitchell brought to the Giants. But he played only 3 more years with a total of 21 games games played. If Reese signed him to a 3 or 4 year deal you'd be using that against him.
They didn't, but that didn't stop fans from going thermonuclear.
LB, however, is an issue. I think the cause is the same reason Spags' D in general is a problem. The philosophy seems to have been born out of having a dominant DL with tons of pass rushers. This minimized the importance of LBs with success back in 2007 and they continued down that path, even as the DL got less and less dominant.
Therein lies the rub. "Stud linebacker that fits the Giants' needs" is considered an oxymoron, because the Giants obviously don't feel as though they need a stud linebacker!
LB, however, is an issue. I think the cause is the same reason Spags' D in general is a problem. The philosophy seems to have been born out of having a dominant DL with tons of pass rushers. This minimized the importance of LBs with success back in 2007 and they continued down that path, even as the DL got less and less dominant.
I fully agree with both points of your post. But I think the OP was more interested in finding a new avenue to bash Reese than discussing the point he raised.
We have Tye and Donnell. I'd rank those 2 pickups as some of the best values we've had in 10+ years.
LB? That's another story.
Reese made two good, relatively cheap free agent acquisitions for each Super Bowl team: Mitchell and Boley. Good blitzing linebackers. Chase Blackburn was also surprisingly productive in 2011-12. Reese also inherited Kiwanuka, a first rounder who is beginning to look not-so-bad compared to his replacements.
Whether Reese should have re-signed any or all of them, especially in light of how dismal their replacements performed, is a debate whose time has come and gone.
Tye had 464 yards and 3 td's in 13 games despite being a raw rookie. Now I understand what your saying in regards to the LB position but I don't think TE is a top need. MLB is our second biggest need IMO after DE.
I think it's less about the lack of production from the Giants' TE position and more about how Reese doesn't look to upgrade our TE situation in a meaningful way.
Was Tye as productive this year as Daniels? Sure, but that's not really what's being questioned. The problem is that Reese needed to essentially hit the lottery there, where as Daniels was a valued investment by the Broncos.
You never know, Will Tye may just turnout to be a keeper. A little short, but good speed, hands and size(weight).
Quote:
He had 517 yards and 3 touchdowns in 16 games this season and he was never a good blocker.
Tye had 464 yards and 3 td's in 13 games despite being a raw rookie. Now I understand what your saying in regards to the LB position but I don't think TE is a top need. MLB is our second biggest need IMO after DE.
I think it's less about the lack of production from the Giants' TE position and more about how Reese doesn't look to upgrade our TE situation in a meaningful way.
Was Tye as productive this year as Daniels? Sure, but that's not really what's being questioned. The problem is that Reese needed to essentially hit the lottery there, where as Daniels was a valued investment by the Broncos.
Well Reese expected Donnell to take the next step after taking a major leap forward in his development the previous year. Obviously that did not work out as Donnell missed most of the season.
I'm also aware this line of thinking led to some dismissing the value of first and second round investment in the OL for some time, so I could certainly be wrong here and the Giants could have just got lucky.
That said - we have been leaving the LB position until the later rounds, which would imply that there's just nobody worth drafting before 4 or 5 - and that doesn't seem to be the case. Seems like the scouts either don't think there's much of a difference between the guys they can get in RD2 and the guys they can pick up in 4 or 5, or that there's nobody worth picking earlier.
Other team's success seems to fly in the face of that logic. It's time to take another look at how we rate LBs, IMO.
We have Tye and Donnell. I'd rank those 2 pickups as some of the best values we've had in 10+ years.
LB? That's another story.
Donnell has stone hands and will give the ball away upon request. He won't be re-signed this offseason.
Tye shows some promise, but is more of an H-back and not an everydown tight end who will contribute in run blocking.
If you were to rank the skill positions, where would you put TE? Ahead of the #2 receiver or #3 receiver? I'd put it ahead of the #3 if I were building an offense. I'd probably put it ahead of RB too (I like how the Giants have approached RB, even though it hasn't been a resounding success).
You don't think that DCs were focusing on Tye once he had some experience under his belt? Sure looked that way to me.
They may after this year... there are only so many things DCs can cover. If you have a Beckham and a Cruz type WRs, who are you going to cover with your best defenders?
That said - we have been leaving the LB position until the later rounds, which would imply that there's just nobody worth drafting before 4 or 5 - and that doesn't seem to be the case. Seems like the scouts either don't think there's much of a difference between the guys they can get in RD2 and the guys they can pick up in 4 or 5, or that there's nobody worth picking earlier.
Other team's success seems to fly in the face of that logic. It's time to take another look at how we rate LBs, IMO.
What about Kennard? Seems like a good pick, although injured for a lot this year. Also, when the OP talks about watching yesterdays games in his analysis which featured dominating top 10 draft picks at linebacker, I took that to mean he was criticizing our round 1 drafting because you are not finding that kind of talent outside of round 1. Seems like the OP's argument was Denver and Carolina have great linebackers and we don't so Reese is an idiot??? You provided a better analysis then the OP.
More to the point, how bout somebody who can tackle/cover.
I love Tye's story but I'm not convinced he's the guy. I had high hopes for Donnell and he flashed but he seems like too much of a spaz to be a # 1 TE.
I do like Kennard - but to me that's just another instance of the Giants valuation of LB. They seem to be continually looking at the bargain bin - either for LBs who underperformed in FA, or in later rounds in the draft because of injury or size concerns (Kennard, Jacquian Williams), or measurables (Greg Jones). Hell, just look at how long Herzlich has been here - again, great STer, decent reserve - ideally, should never be anywhere near the field as a starting LB.
That description seems to fit too many Giants. It's time to go out and spend some money or a higher draft pick, whichever proves more feasible based on draft/FA market availability, on a linebacker or two, preferably a MLB.
Refresh my memory. Who was there for us that we could have/should have taken in the other rounds? We did bring in some FA LBs through the years who also were hit by the injury bug..
Kennard, to date, can't stay on the field but talent-wise, no neglect there..Mitchell was huge for us in FA, but did nothing after he left and was out of the league rather quickly..
WE WON 2 SBS WITH VERY AVERAGE LBs!
..in the last 10 years! Think about it. Antonio Pierce was one of the best...nice player....not Ray Lewis good, not LT good, etc...
Yes our LBs are weak right now...but we lost every one of them to injury all or most/much of this year. Beason, Kennard, JT Thomas...
This is going to be a long off season...uggggg