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Raanan: A detailed look at the Giants healthy salary cap

Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2016 3:19 pm
FYI.
A detailed look at the Giants healthy salary cap situation for 2016 - ( New Window )
the one benefit of having a shitty roster is that you  
Victor in CT : 1/26/2016 3:24 pm : link
are likely to have a good cap situation.
It really drives home how important this off season is.  
larryflower37 : 1/26/2016 3:25 pm : link
This will set up or doom the franchise for years to come.
Hopefully they get this right but my confidence is low right now
I was frustrated by Reese doing all those one year deals.  
AP in Halfmoon : 1/26/2016 3:29 pm : link
but that's part of the reason for the cap space
The only problem is the  
Gutless Puke : 1/26/2016 3:30 pm : link
shit for brains GM who has to find the right players.
RE: It really drives home how important this off season is.  
giants#1 : 1/26/2016 3:30 pm : link
In comment 12789143 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
This will set up or doom the franchise for years to come.
Hopefully they get this right but my confidence is low right now


Yup. They need to hit HRs on at least 3-4 "second contract" FAs (i.e. 25-27 year olds) including if they choose to re-sign JPP/Prince. Players still young enough to have some peak years remaining (if they've even hit their peaks) and build around for 4-5+ seasons.

Add that to Eli and the "core" from the last few drafts (Beckham, Richburg, Pugh, Hankins, Collins, Flowers, etc) and this upcoming draft and they can get back to the postseason quickly.
RE: The only problem is the  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 1/26/2016 3:31 pm : link
In comment 12789149 Gutless Puke said:
Quote:
shit for brains GM who has to find the right players.


You would know about having shit for brains Ginny Poo.
Gutless Puke  
AP in Halfmoon : 1/26/2016 3:34 pm : link
I'm curious how you arrived at your moniker. What's the background?
RE: I was frustrated by Reese doing all those one year deals.  
an_idol_mind : 1/26/2016 3:36 pm : link
In comment 12789148 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
but that's part of the reason for the cap space


On the flip side, the one-year deals provided little more than mediocre stop gaps that didn't benefit the team in the long run. The few times those one-year deals turned out to be worthwhile (i.e., Bennett), they left for a richer contract elsewhere.
And John Jerry  
Andy in Boston : 1/26/2016 3:41 pm : link
If kept .... Will absolutely not be making 1.9 million
Raanan spends too much time reading BBI  
WillieYoung : 1/26/2016 3:52 pm : link
Where are the Giants going to get a cruz reoplacement for $6.1 Million or a Beatty replacement for 4.1 Million (approximately the money the Eagles just spent on their 2nd tight end who is 31)?
Cap space is great  
JonC : 1/26/2016 3:53 pm : link
but it doesn't appear there will be a ton of talent to spend on.
RE: Cap space is great  
GloryDayz : 1/26/2016 4:03 pm : link
In comment 12789198 JonC said:
Quote:
but it doesn't appear there will be a ton of talent to spend on.


That's the thing, everybody wants to cut down on Cruz's & Beatty's numbers, but what are the Giants going to do with all the money? Most of the good FA's will probably sign with their existing teams, with some franchised. They money (cap) they have, specially after cutting Beason & maybe Schwartz, SHOULD cover their needs/available FA talent.

It makes more sense to me to hold off until they need the cap (if they do need it this year) or let them play in 2016 under the same contract, and decide what to do then. If they are worth keeping, great, if not cut them/their salaries and create more room for 2017.

All the more reason  
GiantsRage2007 : 1/26/2016 4:07 pm : link
To go get an impact player. I don't think there will be 5 or 6 guys who command 6-7 million a year... I think we may have to get 1 or 2 big fish. People will complain that we overspend on FA but that's what bad drafts leave you in position to do. Lots of holes to fill, that 40-60 million depending on cuts etc, will go quickly.
cut all the injured guys  
Vanzetti : 1/26/2016 5:47 pm : link
forget about restructuring. Carrying injured players has killed the Giants.

Cruz: this guy thinks he is Hollywood. Get rid of him. I think there is less than a 10% chance he comes back as a top receiver. He was already in decline before the injury.

Beatty: he is 31 and was never that great to begin with. Cut him.

Beason: worst move of Reese's tenure was signing this guy over Linval Joseph. Then he compounded it by keeping him around for another season. Not even debatable: he goes

Schwartz: Always injured and not very good when he is healthy. Unless you want to use him as a lure to sign his brother Mitchell at RT, cut him ASAP.

None of these guys are worth spending any more money on. Admit you made a mistake and move on. Don't compound the error by keeping them around. Cut them and take the dead money hit like a man.
Ridiculous post  
AP in Halfmoon : 1/26/2016 6:00 pm : link
Please continue
Eric you should start charging Jordan a subscription  
Torrag : 1/26/2016 6:21 pm : link
He's getting the majority of his content from your website.
RE: Ridiculous post  
Vanzetti : 1/26/2016 6:22 pm : link
In comment 12789377 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
Please continue


You're like Fredo, AP. You're nothing to me.
There is plenty of talent available...  
Torrag : 1/26/2016 6:25 pm : link
...and a fair portion of it is on teams in questionable cap shape.

There are franchises vulnerable to raiding in free agency with players the Giants may covet. The following franchises have near or significantly less than $10M cap money for 2016.

Denver has Von Miller and Malik Jackson while facing a decision on extending/franchising Osweiler.

Olivier Vernon, Lamar Miller, Rishaud Matthews and Kelvin Sheppard all in Miami. Ripe for the picking.

Buffalo is in cap hell leaving the door wide open for Cordy Glenn to cash in.

Kelechi Osemele is set to hit the open market in Baltimore.

Muhammad Wilkerson and Damon Harrison of the Jets.

The Bengals have Marvin Jones and Sanu at WR with AJ Greens contract set to balloon in 2017. Vinny Rey at MIKE.

Brandon Boykin and Robert Golden two solid DB's in Pittsburgh.

Lots of wishful thinking  
AP in Halfmoon : 1/26/2016 6:45 pm : link
And pipe dreams here.
Free agency is about wishful thinking...  
Torrag : 1/26/2016 6:57 pm : link
...it's like Christmas but just for NFL football fans. Embrace the madness.
Couple of guys who I think could be cut  
bigbluehoya : 1/26/2016 7:09 pm : link
Due to some exorbitant cap numbers who I'd be interested in:

Lawrence Timmons - tackling machine. They'd never think of cutting him if his cap number weren't ~$15m in 2016. I tend to think he restructures to stay in Pitt, but if he shakes free I'm all over the guy. This one could be expensive but he'd immediately be the top LB in the class assuming Von Miller stays put.

Brandon Carr - hasn't warranted his draft position, but seems to have found a solid footing after a poor first couple of years. Not a superstar, but and NFL caliber CB for sure that still has upside IMO

Garçon - $10m cap number, team in a tight cap situation, crowded group of pass-catchers I'm WAS. I think he's still got a bunch left in the tank. Hasn't had the QB play to suit his strengths since arriving in WAS.

Mike Wallace - same thing. Doesn't fit in with that Vikes offense. Has never played with a QB like Eli. We need to stretch the field more than we did this year.

I don't think any one of these guys makes or breaks the offseason, but if a few names like these shake free it would make the FA pool a little deeper. We need all of the NFL quality players we can get.

It's exciting but I'm realistic  
AP in Halfmoon : 1/26/2016 7:15 pm : link
I believe the Giants will be willing to spend but it's a players market. Teams will overpay for the impact guys. It's really tough to use free agency to make up for crap drafts.
RE: the one benefit of having a shitty roster is that you  
Beer Man : 1/26/2016 7:20 pm : link
In comment 12789142 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
are likely to have a good cap situation.
Sometimes, but sometime you have a shitty team because of poor cap management.
RE: RE: the one benefit of having a shitty roster is that you  
Victor in CT : 1/26/2016 7:53 pm : link
In comment 12789454 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 12789142 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


are likely to have a good cap situation.

Sometimes, but sometime you have a shitty team because of poor cap management.


very true. and that reinforces JonC's point about lack of talent in this year's FA class. THey must stay disciplined and not tie up good $$ in bad players
Lack of talent?  
guineaT : 1/26/2016 8:51 pm : link
I don't see a lack of talent in this FA class. In fact it's very deep and tailor made for the Giants with a heavy dose of young starting caliber quality players. Many of them with healthy track records. There are some caveat emptor's laying in the weeds for the unwary buyer. The marquee factor is a bit lacking but we rarely go that route.
Why Cut Beatty?  
djstat : 1/26/2016 10:19 pm : link
Why do you cut Beatty? Sure He is over paid. But in 2014 when healthy he was a productive player. He had a torn peck in '15. You have Flowers on the cheap. Richbirg on the cheap. You have $44+ million already in cap space, so you cann afford to keep an over paid solid lineman who thrice as good as your existing right tackle. If you cut him, you save $4.1 million. Then you have to turn around and find another tackle.
Re: Why cut Beatty?  
Doomster : 1/26/2016 10:38 pm : link
You do it, if there is a better, younger, LT out there in free agency.....if cut, and you sign a stud LT, half his salary is paid in 2016(4.175M saved from Beatty), and the money that is off the books in 2017, pays for the LT the following year(9.325M), based on the player's average yearly salary......of course, with a signing bonus, and a low starting salary, the money saved from Beatty, will pay for the first two cap years of the contract...
So it only  
SethFromAstoria : 1/27/2016 3:30 am : link
took like one or two posts for the thread to be ruined by arrogantly loud ignorant posters....

and I was trying to find something similar in the article but is it hidden somewhere? I for a second thought maybe the article was just a positive reflection on cap space but there has to be a link somewhere in there that completely destroys the very essence of the types of people that own the team and the IQ of the GM. Anyone know where it is on the page?

Thanks for sharing in advance.
RE: Couple of guys who I think could be cut  
giants#1 : 1/27/2016 7:07 am : link
In comment 12789436 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
Due to some exorbitant cap numbers who I'd be interested in:

Lawrence Timmons - tackling machine. They'd never think of cutting him if his cap number weren't ~$15m in 2016. I tend to think he restructures to stay in Pitt, but if he shakes free I'm all over the guy. This one could be expensive but he'd immediately be the top LB in the class assuming Von Miller stays put.

Brandon Carr - hasn't warranted his draft position, but seems to have found a solid footing after a poor first couple of years. Not a superstar, but and NFL caliber CB for sure that still has upside IMO


You're confusing Carr and Claiborne. Carr is an 8 year vet and will be 30 in May. He's got a cap hit of ~$14M for 2016 and will either be cut (frees ~$6M in space) or extended, especially if the Cowboys intend to make any significant moves in FA. He struggled early with the Cowboys after joining as a big ticket FA, but has played better the last couple seasons, though still no where close to his contract.

Morris Claiborne was the 6th overall pick and looked like an early bust, so much so that they didn't even bother picking up his 5th year option last offseason. He's an unrestricted FA. I've read some reports that he was looking better this past season, so might be worth a cheap deal.


Quote:
Garçon - $10m cap number, team in a tight cap situation, crowded group of pass-catchers I'm WAS. I think he's still got a bunch left in the tank. Hasn't had the QB play to suit his strengths since arriving in WAS.


The Redskins cap situation isn't that tight. They'll free $16M as soon as they announce the RG3 cut, though much of that will likely go to Cousins. With Garcon in the final year of his deal, they could easily extend him and reduce his cap # that way if they want additional space. They've got the big 3 names (Garcon, Jackson, Roberts) at WR, but after that their depth is basically a couple unproven 4th/5th round picks. I don't see a compelling reason to cut Garcon (rather than give him a 2-3 year extension).

Quote:
Mike Wallace - same thing. Doesn't fit in with that Vikes offense. Has never played with a QB like Eli. We need to stretch the field more than we did this year.


Pass. He's still living off the hype from his 2nd year in Pitt when he average 21 ypr and scored 10 TDs. Hasn't been close to that since and has been a disappointment in Mia and Min.

Quote:
I don't think any one of these guys makes or breaks the offseason, but if a few names like these shake free it would make the FA pool a little deeper. We need all of the NFL quality players we can get.


giants#1  
bigbluehoya : 1/27/2016 7:23 am : link
Thanks for the reply and for the correction on Carr vs Claiborne. I think either one would be a viable option to add a professional quality player to the CB unit.
RE: giants#1  
giants#1 : 1/27/2016 7:34 am : link
In comment 12789737 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
Thanks for the reply and for the correction on Carr vs Claiborne. I think either one would be a viable option to add a professional quality player to the CB unit.


No problem. Luckily CB is one of the deeper FA positions this year even if Norman and Hall get tagged. You'll still have guys like:

Janoris Jenkins
Sean Smith
Prince
Boykins
Claiborne
Carr

Not all #1/2 CBs, but if Giants can grab Jenkins/Smith/Prince and then one of the others they'll be in good shape at CB.
Wallace  
Dragon : 1/27/2016 8:15 am : link
Does not fit Eli he runs terrible routes except deep and most QB just don't have the time or arm strength to get the ball downfield like Ben did. Guys I'm telling you FA is a great way to overpay too many decent players who just don't fit your teams schemes.
I don't think we should spend to spend  
Essex : 1/27/2016 8:16 am : link
I still think the way to build is through the draft. I would rather carry over some of the money (obviously not all of it) than get into bad contracts in desperation. If there is a guy we can get to help us out, definitely spend it. But, I always thought the Jets fans were short sighted when they screamed about the 20 million Idzik did not spend. So, what did they do, they spent on a bunch of aging FA's and are overspending for them. next year, when they have a more difficult schedule, I would imagine they will be more in the 6-8 win range. You can't buy your way in this league, you can compliment, but it is very hard to buy. Only team that I have seen do it in recent times successfully are the Broncos.
draft vs FA  
giants#1 : 1/27/2016 8:20 am : link
Rookie contracts are only 4 years (5 for 1st rounders) so even if you nail every pick over a 4 year period (probably better odds of winning the powerball), you're still only looking at 28 roster spots. That leaves 25 spots that have to be filled via "free agency".

Other than fans feeling good about "homegrown" players, what difference does it make if those free agents are from your team or another team? JPP and Prince are likely going to the highest bidder whether that's the Giants or Browns. You don't get bonus points for keeping your own players.
Just about every NFL team figures to have significant cap space  
JonC : 1/27/2016 10:05 am : link
Competition for UFAs figures to be very high. In that context, there's not enough high caliber talent to go around.
There are still teams with salary cap problems...  
Torrag : 1/27/2016 10:16 am : link
...and others that are undesirable landing places. The Giants are going to reel in some big fish come March.
on the surface, probably about 2/3  
giants#1 : 1/27/2016 10:50 am : link
of the league has "ample" cap space (>$15M) since you need $5-10M for draft picks and another $5M as a safety cushion throughout the season.

But some of the teams aren't in as good of shape as they appear. For example:

Carolina - $20M in space, but tagging Norman will use over half that
Seattle - $20M in space, but FAs like Okung, Irvin, etc.
Eagles - $21M in space, but 2/3 to 3/4 of that will be gone if/when Bradford signs a long term deal. If he doesn't sign, then they have a gaping hole at QB...
Chiefs - $30M in space but Berry, Derrick Johnson, Sean Smith, and several others UFAs
Bengals - $33M in space, but some big UFAs in Hall, Andre Smith, Nelson, Rey, Sanu, Jones, etc.
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