For the next installment of "Is he a keeper?" for 2016, LB Mark Herzlich.
We all know the story about Herzlich coming out of Boston College. All the accolades that Luke Kuechly has since earned were initally meant for his BC teammate Herzlich. A battle with cancer derailed those dreams, turning Herzlich from a top 15 NFL pick to an UDFA.
The bottom line for Herzlich is that on the Giants he has proven to be a solid special teamer, somewhat useful in defensive situations (short yardage/goal line), but has shown that he is not a long term answer as an impact player on defense.
The good about Herzlich is that he is one of the top tacklers year after year on special teams. He is a leader on a team that his lacking them. And he remains an inspiration and a positive role model for the organization which clearly likes him. He also has good size, ranging around 250 pounds, something the Giants don't really have at linebacker.
The negative. He will be turning 29 this year. Similar to about half the players on an awful defense in 2015, he is a special teamer who was asked to play defense because the talent on the roster dictated it, and it showed in the performance. Even so, the Giants have taken him out of the MLB equation, going with Beason, then Unga, and finally Brinkley. While Herzlich has good size he is sloooooow and gets exposed in coverage. Herzlich also earned $1 million last year, so going into his 6th season in the NFL, he's entered that dangerous "middle class" zone for NFL players who are good enough to make a roster, but at the value they provide teams can probably find similar production at a cheaper/younger price from either a late draft pick, UDFA, or even other veteran FA.
With Coughlin gone, did he "protect" Herzlich's roster spot and is he now vulnerable? Or do the Giants value his special teams play and look to upgrade elsewhere on defense and bring him back for another season. Or is it time to move on and get a younger player to take over his role.
Special teamer ONLY? Maybe. Playing LB? NEVER
New brash backers often times leave their lanes on returns.
He probably hasn't earned a lot of the derision he's received, but at the same time he hasn't been very good and is likely only to get worse.
His ST contributions alone will keep him around. Why get rid of a player that will hurt a unit that has been improving?
There are a few guys on the team that we should be parting with that fit the same description. Not bad, not great, good guy, knows where he's supposed to be, but just doesn't have the physical attributes necessary to play professional football at a high level.
That said, it will come down to a numbers game. Beason will be gone IMO, I don't really like the inconsistency of Unga, Thomas needs to stay healthy, Cassilas should be a ST guy and nickel backer, Nico Johnson was a solid college player that may have some upside. I really like what Brinkley did, and Kennard needs to be part of the solution going forward.
I have a feeling they are adding at least 1 LB this offseason either in FA or the draft. If they keep 6 I think Herzlich will have a hard time making the roster.
On the other hand, the Giants being the Giants, they will probably just write the check, because it's the "right" thing to do.
Anyway, I have no problem with Herzlich competing with Unga, Brinkley, Johnson, Morris and others for the sixth LB spot on the roster. The challenge is to upgrade the first and second spots so Kennard, Casillas and Thomas can be the #3, 4, and 5 that they really are.
This is the nature of the NFL - it's why the CBA sucks for the players, IMO. The limited roster sizes means you can't hold on to guys like Herzlich for too long, you have to constantly be out for newer players. They're slightly cheaper, they're typically less banged up (younger, less mileage), and in the case of Herzlich - he's got no upside. Even if we took a mid round player and plugged him in in MH's spot, the chances we end up with someone worse are minimal. We do have a decent shot at an upgrade, so all things considered - likely better measurables, better health, possible upside - all at about the same cost or cheaper (and the vested vet at MH's point has to be more expensive, even if only by a few hundred K) there's really little reason to stand put.
Well, that's a far cry from 'he'll be replaced by another middling player'.
I know there's nothing about the Giants lately that would suggest they have any idea how to upgrade the position, but it is possible. We don't need LT there - we just need better than Herzlich. Even if only marginally so - marginally better + younger + cheaper = win.
So do you take another 29 year old guy who is strictly (hopefully) a backup in Unga, or do you take a guy who is strictly a backup at LB, but a starter and serious contributor at ST?
Of those 2 I'd keep Herzlich.
So do you take another 29 year old guy who is strictly (hopefully) a backup in Unga, or do you take a guy who is strictly a backup at LB, but a starter and serious contributor at ST?
Of those 2 I'd keep Herzlich.
Just like the draft, BPA - best player available.
Simply put - you go at FA and the draft and seek out the best players you can find. If it means you replace the entire LBs corps - if better players are available - you do it.
If it comes down to two players already on the roster - given the current state of the Giants, you have to trend towards younger, cheaper, less injured.
Unga vs. Herzlich to me looks like the world's biggest tie. Herzlich might be better on STs (something IMO is a bit of a joke; we could draft a new LB and he could fill that role almost immediately, other teams do it all the time). Unga was the better linebacker, although that was certainly no beauty contest.
If both of these guys were gone come August, I really don't see how the team would be much worse off, unless the replacements are even worse. And as much as I'm down on the Giants ability to pick linebackers, I find it hard to believe they could mess up THAT badly.
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Just like the draft, BPA - best player available.
Simply put - you go at FA and the draft and seek out the best players you can find. If it means you replace the entire LBs corps - if better players are available - you do it.
If it comes down to two players already on the roster - given the current state of the Giants, you have to trend towards younger, cheaper, less injured.
Unga vs. Herzlich to me looks like the world's biggest tie.
I agree with all you said. Which is why I only compared the 2 of those guys.
Take the BPA -- even if it is another free agent or draft pick.
I agree with the go with age/injury history -- that also seems a wash.
I compared the 2 because the thread seemed to use Unga as a higher value than Herzlich. But in my opinion, if you need to select the 1 of the 2 for that last roster spot, I have to give Herzlich the nod because of special teams play. Neither is a standout, and hopefully we upgrade instead of having it come to that.
That said with the McGovern hire I think there's a good chance the Giants keep him and we're stuck watching him plod around for at least one more season.
That said with the McGovern hire I think there's a good chance the Giants keep him and we're stuck watching him plod around for at least one more season.
Exactly - this is how you get into trouble, because the numbers add up quickly.
He's on the books for $1.2M - that same 4th rounder from the 2015 draft would cost about $570k - so a difference of $630k. Not a trivial sum, and that's before getting into the performance reasons.
Do that 2-3 times, and you can get a decent FA to fill a depth slot somewhere.
Keeping guys like this around is one of the reason the Coughlin regime ultimately failed. He is a brave man who overcame cancer. As a person, I have nothing but respect for him. But he is not an NFL-caliber player.
Just the very idea that we cannot find a player that is just as capable on Special Teams BUT also has a chance to develop into a more valuable reserve at LB is simply ridiculous.
ridiculous...
Do that 2-3 times, and you can get a decent FA to fill a depth slot somewhere.
A qualifying contract would reduce his salary from $1MM to the veteran minimum of $760K, and his additional off-season cash from $200K to a figure between $0 and $80K. A qualifying contract would also carry cap relief of $160K. As your post implies, they can't do anything about his $200K in unamortized bonus. That hits the 2016 no matter what.
So, by being cold-blooded (and taking a small risk that he signs elsewhere), the Giants can reduce Herzlich's 2016 cap number from $1.4MM to $800K - or $880K if they want to sweeten the deal by giving him the maximum qualifying bonus. It's not such a terrible deal for Herzlich. With the maximum $80K bonus, he would make $840K in new money instead of $1.2MM, but he would also reduce the incentive for the Giants to replace him with a younger body.
DeOssie has been a monster for us,snapping then often being downfield quickly to often make the tackle; but has had some dings the last 2 years. It MH can survive cut he makes ST and backup LS just in case.Less need to hit the streets for a player.
Best part of that is you can't say it without being included in the number :P
I thought he looked OK filling in at SAM in 2014. (He was always a terrible MIKE, and still is.) But it wasn't a good sign last year that Thomas moved over from WILL to SAM when Kennard was out. That meant the staff was bending over backwards to keep Herzlich off the field. Otherwise, Thomas could have stayed where he was or replaced Beason in the middle. Granted, everyone was hurt at some point, so it's hard to read the staff's intentions very clearly.
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He's on the books for $1.2M - that same 4th rounder from the 2015 draft would cost about $570k - so a difference of $630k. Not a trivial sum, and that's before getting into the performance reasons.
Do that 2-3 times, and you can get a decent FA to fill a depth slot somewhere.
A qualifying contract would reduce his salary from $1MM to the veteran minimum of $760K, and his additional off-season cash from $200K to a figure between $0 and $80K. A qualifying contract would also carry cap relief of $160K. As your post implies, they can't do anything about his $200K in unamortized bonus. That hits the 2016 no matter what.
So, by being cold-blooded (and taking a small risk that he signs elsewhere), the Giants can reduce Herzlich's 2016 cap number from $1.4MM to $800K - or $880K if they want to sweeten the deal by giving him the maximum qualifying bonus. It's not such a terrible deal for Herzlich. With the maximum $80K bonus, he would make $840K in new money instead of $1.2MM, but he would also reduce the incentive for the Giants to replace him with a younger body.
Uhhhh
OK - not to say I don't appreciate the cap breakdown, but does anyone think for a second that if the Giants do keep Herzlich, that they're going to push for a better deal with him? I get it - great guy, cancer victim - I wish him all the best. But can't we get into the habit of giving these guys jobs off the field that don't count against the cap, instead of using precious cap resources to do so?
His story is a great one but he was 't the MLB we needed. He played better on the edge but couldn't cover me!
His greatest strength is on Special teams.. Can we afford someone that one and a half dimensional!
On another note... His father joined us at our tailgate in Miami! Very nice man . Agreed that he needs a thick skin when he gets on BBI!
Most of the Reese protectors argue that personnel upgrades were not possible because "Who was available who was better?" (as to any position, not just LB). Yet the roster seemed to undergo precious little change for the better as FA, camp, season ran their courses.
With TC gone, and thus maybe an anchor for some on the roster, e.g., MH, does the outcome allow some insight as to that debate? But, as mentioned, maybe the new Assistant negates insight, or the converse, if he is cut, it tends to confirm it.
I don t want good stories, I want good players.
Your welcome MH for a football career.
For his price, he's a perfect special teamer.
Only issue with Mark, nobody wears a Mohawk worse. It just doesn't work.