for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Eli = 8th greatest player in super bowl history (ESPN)

TexasGmenFan : 1/28/2016 5:45 pm
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/page/top50SBrank3/ranking-50-greatest-players-super-bowl-history-nos-10-1-nfl


ESPN has been counting down the 50 greatest players in super bowl history this week. Today they unveiled the top 10. For as much as he gets shit on by the national media, it's kind of cool to think of Eli as being the 8th greatest player in super bowl history...

Quote:
QB | New York Giants | Super Bowls: XLII, XLVI

Manning is a combined 49-of-74 (66.2 percent) for 551 yards, three touchdowns and one interception in his two Super Bowls -- both victories over the Patriots. But those victories will be best remembered for two indelible throws: the one David Tyree caught on his helmet to keep a fourth-quarter drive alive against the unbeaten Patriots in XLII, and the brilliant, toe-tapping, sideline catch by Mario Manningham in the fourth quarter of XLVI. Manning's game-winning drive in XLII started with 2:39 left and the Giants down 14-10. His game-winning drive in XLVI began with 3:46 left and the Giants down 17-15. Even if he never plays in another Super Bowl, Eli Manning goes down as one of the most clutch quarterbacks in Super Bowl history. -- Dan Graziano


Other Giants in the top 50: Simms @ 25. And that's it.

Top 5 overall:

1. Brady
2. Aikman
3. Montana
4. Rice
5. E. Smith

Unsure on what planet Aikman would be ahead of Montana...moreso the case when one considers Super Bowls...Montana went 4-0 with the offense putting up 34 on Miami and 55 on Denver...not to mention the drive in XXIII.
For real though  
Eli2Plax1017 : 1/28/2016 5:47 pm : link
what in the fuck is that Montana Aikman thing all about...good Lord that is such garbage
Montana and Rice should certainly be ahead of Aikman  
MetsAreBack : 1/28/2016 5:49 pm : link
and I'd probably put Montana ahead of Brady too.

Brady has lost twice and didnt play particularly well in half of his Superbowls. Granted he got there 6x, but this isnt about playoff performance - its Superbowl history.
I thought Rice was around for the Miami superbowl  
MetsAreBack : 1/28/2016 5:53 pm : link
so maybe 4th place overall is accurate. But still -- 400 yards receiving and 4 Touchdowns in 2 superbowls. Holy shit.
I was shocked  
SethFromAstoria : 1/28/2016 6:02 pm : link
how they respected the man. This may be the most respected he's been.

By the end when he says I am done, people will all look up and say "holy crap he's way up there". He's going to have the raw stats to go with the trophies and the MVP's. Writers will all look at one another....

what do we do??? did he have backne?! Crap guess he's in. Who knew he was one of the all time best?


We did.
I don't think  
dep026 : 1/28/2016 6:06 pm : link
think elway deserved to be ahead of eli. elway had some really shitty SB performances.
Atthe very least Emmett Smith  
Big Blue '56 : 1/28/2016 6:08 pm : link
should be behind Eli..Eli should be at 5
Emmitt  
Big Blue '56 : 1/28/2016 6:08 pm : link
.
RE: I don't think  
David in LA : 1/28/2016 6:12 pm : link
In comment 12792607 dep026 said:
Quote:
think elway deserved to be ahead of eli. elway had some really shitty SB performances.


My memory might be fuzzy, but I thought TD carried Elway to those 2 SB's. I'd argue TD should be ranked higher than Elway. He shit the bed in the 80's.
They also have the ranking of SB MVP's  
SethFromAstoria : 1/28/2016 6:12 pm : link
RE: I was shocked  
giantgiantfan : 1/28/2016 6:14 pm : link
In comment 12792601 SethFromAstoria said:
Quote:
how they respected the man. This may be the most respected he's been.

By the end when he says I am done, people will all look up and say "holy crap he's way up there". He's going to have the raw stats to go with the trophies and the MVP's. Writers will all look at one another....

what do we do??? did he have backne?! Crap guess he's in. Who knew he was one of the all time best?


We did.


This.
.  
SethFromAstoria : 1/28/2016 6:14 pm : link
Those rankings are BS  
David in LA : 1/28/2016 6:19 pm : link
Eli had a much stronger performance in 46.
Aren't those rankings  
SethFromAstoria : 1/28/2016 6:19 pm : link
a little high for Eli considering it was luck? Defense and luck? I don't remember Eli doing anything more than looking funny on the field. He played in these games? Here is what I envision in my head when I think of Eli and Super Bowls:

What horseshit  
Phil in LA : 1/28/2016 6:21 pm : link
Eli's been straight money in the Superbowl. Most of Brady's SB's were won with kicks.
Interesting that his SB46 performance was  
exiled : 1/28/2016 6:23 pm : link
I thought that come-from-behind drive to win was pretty impressive. (Guess that one was all luck, right Seth?)

I'll still take #8, though!
RE: .  
TexasGmenFan : 1/28/2016 6:23 pm : link
In comment 12792625 SethFromAstoria said:
Quote:


one could also argue that Eli had a much stronger game in XLVI
RE: I don't think  
TexasGmenFan : 1/28/2016 6:24 pm : link
In comment 12792607 dep026 said:
Quote:
think elway deserved to be ahead of eli. elway had some really shitty SB performances.


can't disagree with this either. Denver put up 20, 10, and 10 in 3 SB losses to close the 80s and his team lost by 19, 32, and 45.

Davis deserves the credit XXXII and I mean Elway was decent against the Falcons.

making it 6 times doesn't trump 2 come from behind W's in the closing minutes.
RE: I thought Rice was around for the Miami superbowl  
TexasGmenFan : 1/28/2016 6:25 pm : link
In comment 12792591 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
so maybe 4th place overall is accurate. But still -- 400 yards receiving and 4 Touchdowns in 2 superbowls. Holy shit.


Rice was there for 23, 24, and 29. In 23, he was otherwordly and I'd say he wasn't too shabby in the other 2 either.

Aikman should be behind both Montana and Rice, agreed.
RE: I thought Rice was around for the Miami superbowl  
NINEster : 1/28/2016 6:28 pm : link
In comment 12792591 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
so maybe 4th place overall is accurate. But still -- 400 yards receiving and 4 Touchdowns in 2 superbowls. Holy shit.


Rice played in 4 SBs after Joe Montana finished playing in 2.

33 receptions, 589 yards, 8 TDs.

One TD at age 40, with Oakland. His longest SB reception of career, 48 yards.
RE: RE: I don't think  
dep026 : 1/28/2016 6:30 pm : link
In comment 12792616 David in LA said:
Quote:
In comment 12792607 dep026 said:


Quote:


think elway deserved to be ahead of eli. elway had some really shitty SB performances.



My memory might be fuzzy, but I thought TD carried Elway to those 2 SB's. I'd argue TD should be ranked higher than Elway. He shit the bed in the 80's.


He continues to get major props for the most overrated play in sports history, the "helicopter" play. I mean he jumped and get hit sideways. Big f'n whoop. He didnt score or anything on the play. But somehow, that effort led them to a victory. Puhleeze....
To be honest it's  
SethFromAstoria : 1/28/2016 6:33 pm : link
tough to seperate the two SB's when I try. I remember it more like in SB 42, Eli was the new guy who just kicked ass on the road and shocked teams with his ice cold killer instinct, so there was confidence but also the game was against the undefeated best Super Bowl loser of all time. But the second one was just Eli back home where he belonged ready to do it again. Pats shitting bricks on their sidelines knowing the assassin was back to ruin their season.

I mean just look at the difference in pictures. Eli before the war, and Eli after fighting the White Walkers




plus apparently Will Smith played in thge game:



and nice Elway shot




I like that OJ has the headband. Nice

Aikman Super Bowl Statline  
NINEster : 1/28/2016 6:38 pm : link
is garbage given the rating:

4 TD/0 INT, against Buffalo
0 TD/1 INT, rematch against Buffalo
1 TD/0 INT, against Pittsburgh.

Joe, 12 TD/0 INTs, 2 rushing TDs. Brady 13 TD/4 INTs.

Meanwhile Montana had 59 yards rushing on 5 attempts against the Dolphins, which isn't too bad compared to Kaepernick with 62 yards, and Steve McNair with 64.

Brady has 12 total rushing yards over the course of 6 SBs.

Stats and eye test don't lie.


What about Simms?  
AP in Halfmoon : 1/28/2016 6:46 pm : link
He had an all time great game
RE: What about Simms?  
TexasGmenFan : 1/28/2016 6:49 pm : link
In comment 12792664 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
He had an all time great game


was 25th overall as mentioned in OP. i'd say not bad for having the 1 appearance, given how awesome it was.
RE: Aikman Super Bowl Statline  
dep026 : 1/28/2016 6:55 pm : link
In comment 12792654 NINEster said:
Quote:
is garbage given the rating:

4 TD/0 INT, against Buffalo
0 TD/1 INT, rematch against Buffalo
1 TD/0 INT, against Pittsburgh.

Joe, 12 TD/0 INTs, 2 rushing TDs. Brady 13 TD/4 INTs.

Meanwhile Montana had 59 yards rushing on 5 attempts against the Dolphins, which isn't too bad compared to Kaepernick with 62 yards, and Steve McNair with 64.

Brady has 12 total rushing yards over the course of 6 SBs.

Stats and eye test don't lie.



Troy Aikman rivals only Joe Namath as overrated QBs whos HOF resumes dont match up with the all time greats.
Justin Tuck played very well in two Super Bowls -  
Ira : 1/28/2016 6:55 pm : link
particularly Super Bowl 42.
Hey, he's ahead of Kurt Warner!  
markky : 1/28/2016 7:13 pm : link
that's something
RE: What horseshit  
timintey : 1/28/2016 8:13 pm : link
In comment 12792633 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
Eli's been straight money in the Superbowl. Most of Brady's SB's were won with kicks.

Exactly! What has Brady done that has "wow"-ed you in the Super Bowl? Nice drive in the first one to set up Vinatieri's kick. Other than that, I don't recall him having any monster games or moments...
Eli  
blue42 : 1/28/2016 8:24 pm : link
threw possibly the best pass ever thrown in the Super Bowl to Manningham. The amount of skill on both ends of that play combined with the circumstances will never be beat.
Phil Simms had the single greatest performance  
Cruzin : 1/28/2016 8:31 pm : link

of any QB in any SB ever. He needs to be ranked higher.

Typical horse shit...  
trueblueinpw : 1/28/2016 8:38 pm : link
Probably put Aikman there just because its so absurd that its sure to draw attention. Wasn't Aikman in the hospital a couple days before his second Super Bowl? Thought he got really fucked up in that NFC Championship game.
Aikman at #2 is a complete joke  
Greg from LI : 1/28/2016 9:15 pm : link
.
Brady  
Glover : 1/29/2016 3:09 am : link
over Montana is highly Questionable, let alone Aikman.
RE: RE: What horseshit  
SethFromAstoria : 1/29/2016 5:03 am : link
In comment 12792749 timintey said:
Quote:
In comment 12792633 Phil in LA said:


Quote:


Eli's been straight money in the Superbowl. Most of Brady's SB's were won with kicks.


Exactly! What has Brady done that has "wow"-ed you in the Super Bowl? Nice drive in the first one to set up Vinatieri's kick. Other than that, I don't recall him having any monster games or moments...


if not for Eli, Brady would have won our game the same wau Eli did. Eli just did it last
Brady,  
oldog : 1/29/2016 11:25 am : link
Really only 3-3,except for lucky interception. Sitting on bench, head hanging, waiting for the end, wait, hey, we won. Eli, still 2-0, great stats, weaker support, these rankings are a subjective disgrace. But patience folks, the final chapters of the Eli book are still to be written, and will place this thing beyond dispute.
RE: RE: RE: What horseshit  
timintey : 1/29/2016 12:11 pm : link
In comment 12792956 SethFromAstoria said:
Quote:
In comment 12792749 timintey said:
Exactly! What has Brady done that has "wow"-ed you in the Super Bowl? Nice drive in the first one to set up Vinatieri's kick. Other than that, I don't recall him having any monster games or moments...



if not for Eli, Brady would have won our game the same wau Eli did. Eli just did it last

However, in both of our wins vs the Pats, Brady got the ball back after we scored and did not pull it out. He has yet to have a big game in the Super Bowl, or have a wow moment. They rank him first because he has played in 6 but that wasn't the purpose of this article.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 1/29/2016 12:36 pm : link
Brady had a 74% completion rate last year with four TDs. In XXXVIII he had 3 TDs. His spot is well-earned.

Aikman and Elway seem too high to me.

I'd also say that Eli's XLVI effort was better than his XLII one. Tuck should be on that list. He was dominant.
John Elway's Super Bowl performances  
Greg from LI : 1/29/2016 1:30 pm : link
XXI: 22-37, 304 yards, 1 TD 1 INT, lost 39-20
XXII: 14-38, 257 yards, 1 TD 3 INT, lost 42-10
XXIV: 10-26, 108 yards, 0 TD 2 INT, lost 55-10
XXXII: 12-22, 123 yards, 0 TD 1 INT, won 31-24
XXXIII: 18-29, 336 yards, 1 TD 1 INT, won 34-19

In the words of Vincent Hanna, I am overfuckingwhelmed. 3 TDs to 8 INTs? And he's near the very top of all-time Super Bowl players? Shit, even Aikman looks incredible compared to that. Aikman had one excellent SB and two pedestrian ones.
No Defensive players on the list?  
kinard : 1/29/2016 1:33 pm : link
.... That makes it have no credibility at all. Guys like Charles Haley, Joe Greene, Jack Lambert, Ken Norton Jr. and Randy White want a re-count.

If Steve Young makes it for a one game performance, so should guys like Rod Martin, James Washington, Larry Brown, Jake Scott, Dexter Jackson and Chuck Howley.

That was a typical, shitty ESPN list
RE: RE: I thought Rice was around for the Miami superbowl  
MetsAreBack : 2/1/2016 12:09 pm : link
In comment 12792647 NINEster said:
Quote:
In comment 12792591 MetsAreBack said:


Quote:


so maybe 4th place overall is accurate. But still -- 400 yards receiving and 4 Touchdowns in 2 superbowls. Holy shit.



Rice played in 4 SBs after Joe Montana finished playing in 2.

33 receptions, 589 yards, 8 TDs.

One TD at age 40, with Oakland. His longest SB reception of career, 48 yards.


Great catch. Total brainfart on my part forgetting about the Steve Young years and the Raiders year late in his career. With those numbers its a joke that anyone could put Jerry Rice any lower than #2 overall in superbowl history. An argument can be made between Montana and Rice certainly... Brady is a distant #3... and then there's another gap to your next group (Eli, Aikman, etc)

And I'd put Eli over Aikman, but its something that could reasonably be debated i suppose.
RE: John Elway's Super Bowl performances  
dep026 : 2/1/2016 12:12 pm : link
In comment 12793616 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
XXI: 22-37, 304 yards, 1 TD 1 INT, lost 39-20
XXII: 14-38, 257 yards, 1 TD 3 INT, lost 42-10
XXIV: 10-26, 108 yards, 0 TD 2 INT, lost 55-10
XXXII: 12-22, 123 yards, 0 TD 1 INT, won 31-24
XXXIII: 18-29, 336 yards, 1 TD 1 INT, won 34-19

In the words of Vincent Hanna, I am overfuckingwhelmed. 3 TDs to 8 INTs? And he's near the very top of all-time Super Bowl players? Shit, even Aikman looks incredible compared to that. Aikman had one excellent SB and two pedestrian ones.


It's all because of the most overrated play in the history of sports. A 38 year old man jumping up in the air and getting smashed is all of a sudden a great play. Mind boggling.
if you don't think Troy Aikman  
djm : 2/1/2016 12:21 pm : link
was a great QB you were watching a different QB. Aikman was a brilliant QB--who played in a great offense. That's why they easily won 3 super bowls.
...  
WideRight : 2/1/2016 12:23 pm : link
1. Joe Montana
2. Terry Bradshaw
3. Tom Brady
4. Marcus Allen
5. Emmitt Smith
6. Aikman
7. E Mannin'
8. John Elway
Aikman shouldn't be #2 though  
djm : 2/1/2016 12:23 pm : link
I'd put Bradshaw and Montana at 2-1, respectively. 4-0. Peace.
I think #1 is Montana pretty easily  
Greg from LI : 2/1/2016 12:24 pm : link
12 TDs, no INTS speaks loudly.
RE: if you don't think Troy Aikman  
MetsAreBack : 2/1/2016 1:07 pm : link
In comment 12796399 djm said:
Quote:
was a great QB you were watching a different QB. Aikman was a brilliant QB--who played in a great offense. That's why they easily won 3 super bowls.



That's not the debate. The debate is who has the greatest superbowl resumes.

Aikman does not crack the top 5 IMO.
don't mean to miller  
Greg from LI : 2/1/2016 1:27 pm : link
But IMO Aikman was a very good QB, but never great. Or, perhaps, he was a QB who was capable of being great but we'll never really know because of the offense he played in. The Cowboys simply didn't ask him to do too much. He only cracked the 20 TD mark once in his career. I know the game was different then, but that really stands out. I don't think he had a HOF career, championships notwithstanding.
just for fun  
Greg from LI : 2/1/2016 1:28 pm : link
Troy Aikman threw 165 TDs in 165 games. Phil Simms threw 199 in 164 games.
Believe it or not  
dep026 : 2/1/2016 2:00 pm : link
Kurt Warner's SB resume is superior than Aikmans and Elways.
I agree  
Greg from LI : 2/1/2016 2:02 pm : link
But that 1-2 record will always limit him. If Vinatieri shanks that field goal, or if Harrison's pick-six is overturned as it should have been, his reputation would be different.
RE: don't mean to miller  
Matt M. : 2/1/2016 3:58 pm : link
In comment 12796504 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
But IMO Aikman was a very good QB, but never great. Or, perhaps, he was a QB who was capable of being great but we'll never really know because of the offense he played in. The Cowboys simply didn't ask him to do too much. He only cracked the 20 TD mark once in his career. I know the game was different then, but that really stands out. I don't think he had a HOF career, championships notwithstanding.
I always said the same thing. (I'm agreeing with you an awful lot today). I also think it is then interesting to look at Simms' numbers as you did. I don't like that the voters also look at Simms and say he won 1 SB. He has 2 rings. The Giants don't get to the SB in 1990 without Simms and the start to the season the Giants had under him. i also think they win that game with him at QB also, especially the way they leaned very heavily on OJ.
RE: Believe it or not  
WideRight : 2/1/2016 4:08 pm : link
In comment 12796567 dep026 said:
Quote:
Kurt Warner's SB resume is superior than Aikmans and Elways.


3 - 0 beats 1 - 2.

SInce we are talking about the ultimate game, it is the ultimate stat that matters most.
I agree about Aikman in terms of his career  
Matt M. : 2/1/2016 4:08 pm : link
being slightly overrated. But, is 3-0 in SBs with 5 TDs and 1 INT. Still, at #2 and ahead of Montanta, way too high. Brady also doesn't belong ahead of Montana. I have contended Montana's overall career was slightly overrated (that doesn't mean he's not an all time great; it means I don't think he's the best QB of all time). But, in the SB he was otherworldly, especially when you look at the fact that it was 4 games.

Elway does not belong anywhere near as high as he is. The 2 SBs they won were in large part to Davis, not him. In the 3 losses, he threw 2 TDs vs. 7 INTs. In the 2 wins, he threw 1 TD to 2 INTs for a total of 3 TDs/9INTs in 5 games. How is that a top 10 performer?
good arguments for Simms, because he did have the best single game,  
WideRight : 2/1/2016 4:09 pm : link
ever
RE: No Defensive players on the list?  
santacruzom : 2/1/2016 4:14 pm : link
In comment 12793623 kinard said:
Quote:
.... That makes it have no credibility at all. Guys like Charles Haley, Joe Greene, Jack Lambert, Ken Norton Jr. and Randy White want a re-count.



Well if they did that, the list would be a hell of a lot less white.

Yeah, I said it!
He wouldn't be the popular choice  
Matt M. : 2/1/2016 4:17 pm : link
But Tuck could very well have an argument for the top 10. He had 2 dominant SB performances. His SB resume, in my opinion, is superior to Elways, for example.
Glad to see Eli so high...  
EricJ : 2/1/2016 9:02 pm : link
but I also agree with some of you about the other names on the list. Aikman being so high absolutely is a joke. I would say Bradshaw should be higher. How about some of the other Steelers like Lynn Swan?

The earlier comment about Brady not deserving because they won games on kicks.... come on dude. Really? You cannot deny Brady here.
Back to the Corner