I found something interesting in the Senior Bowl story by

you are looking too far into it. I don't see that this is an indictment against everyone having a say. You can't have management and coaches at every scout event. What you can do is assign certain personnel who then report back on the prospects, then the collective whole would get to weigh in.

.....is there such a thing

but the Senior Bowl seems pretty important. I find it hard to believe that the Giants have zero representation. What exactly are the Giants scouts doing this week that is more important? Weird.

In comment 12793554 GiantJake said:

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but the Senior Bowl seems pretty important. I find it hard to believe that the Giants have zero representation. What exactly are the Giants scouts doing this week that is more important? Weird.

Try reading the OP again.

One of the articles pointed out how many teams have coaching staffs go - 14. So, 14 out of 32.

It says the coaches don't usually attend.

And didn't Pope used to coach up the TEs at the senior bowl? Or is it the combine I'm thinking of?

Also, just because the coaches have input into everyone drafted, doesn't mean they spend as much time scouting all the players as the scouting department does. Reese likely gives the coaching staff a list of the top XX players at each position they like and the coaches then do their homework on those guys.

Input also doesn't mean final say in who gets picked either.

In comment 12793560 jcn56 said:

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One of the articles pointed out how many teams have coaching staffs go - 14. So, 14 out of 32.

I can't imagine its a huge deal to the teams or more would've complained that its unfair to teams in the playoffs. I can't imagine the Panthers/Broncos have any coaches there right now.

we'd be there..Similar to OTAs..Some go, some opt not to

There are plenty of other things the coaches might be doing in January: evaluation of current Giants and prospective free agents, planning scheme changes for the next season, developing the "shopping list" and priorities for the front office's acquisitions, maybe even taking a little time off. Of course, in January 2008 and 2012, they had much bigger things on their minds.

The Senior Bowl seems to me like a rather low-payoff activity. I don't think the Giants have had a major find there since Sinorice Moss, and we all know how that turned out.

Victor et al: I have been to several Senior Bowls (and it is a hoot and should be on every 'real' fan's bucket list to go at least once) but the fact is that nobody does any real scouting at the game or practices. Its more like a paid holiday (and a chance to spend a few days together) for the staffs from the various teams who all tend to sit around in their own corner of the stands and tell stories and the like! In fact, all the practice sessions are taped and every team gets a copy and that's where the real scouting for the event takes place when they can really break everything down.

They need access to the players for testing, interiews, etc, and that's when Combines and pro days are vital for scouts and coaches.

It's likely a case of not everyone can be everywhere.

what Colin said.

Victor, Jon et al: One of my favorite memories from the SB involved Tom Coughlin. All the head coaches from the non-Super Bowl teams do go to the Senior Bowl, but most tended to travel around with their posses telling stories and the like and be almost totally oblivious to what was going on on the field. The one HC who ever actually appeared to be watching the practices would be Coughlin who would be down on the sidelines with his papers and charts actually watching the action on the field. One day I saw him up against the fence that surrounds the field so I deftly sidled up next to him (and in real life he's just a tiny old guy!) hoping to detect who was actually watching. While I was there his phone rings and I'm thinking great I can almost listen and maybe pick up a gem or two that way. Didn't take long to figure that he was actually talking to Katie about one of the grandchildren taking the first step or some such. And such is the Senior Bowl!

one step ahead.
Tape is more important. It doesn't get lost in foggy memory. It is all there for the staffs to see.

I also imagine that for Marc Ross and some of the Giant scouts, there's a feeling that it could be their last trip together. If some of the crew is going to be let go after the Draft, I wonder if they've already been told.

evaluate the FA prospects? Or maybe the Pro Bowl isn't too reflective ...

great TC story Colin.

In comment 12793711 DonQuixote said:

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evaluate the FA prospects? Or maybe the Pro Bowl isn't too reflective ...

We're probably the only 12 people in America who HAVE NOT been invited to the Pro Bowl.

Victor, Jon, BB et al: As I said if you are a real football fan (and live where its cold, do try and go to the Senior Bowl at least once. You get to sit up in the stands with all the GMs and coaches. Its a hoot. Related to the comments on the last round up for the Giants scouts. Been thinking about Reese's comments about the possibility of changes after the draft which is interesting because the Giants have not made a change to their scout staff since something like 2005. First, I doubt that anyone like Ross is going anywhere. However, all three of the Giants area scouts have been with the Giants almost 30 years and one wonders if they might think about injecting some fresh ideas into that part of the staff.

we have a new coach and he's busy filling in the rest of his staff. I'm not surprised Victor wouldn't get that at all. Also, this doesn't meant Coughlin didn't have input before, he was fucking there at the Senior Bowls and Pro days. Plus, just because Schwartz didn't see him there doesn't mean he wasn't.

the common wisdom that the drafts been great for the last 3 yrs, the fact is that they have followed the same pattern since 2008, which is a solid to excellent 1st round, hit or miss 2nd round and nothing from round 3-7.

agree that maybe it's time to "retire" some of the 30 yr + guys and bring in some fresh perspective.

you would be able to see that I am asking questions about the process and how it affects the Giants, which non-vindictive contributors like Colin and JonC were glad to answer intelligently, and Colin also with
an interesting TC anecdote.

If it does GO FUCK YOURSELF

sorry other people have to hold your hand to walk you over to the answer.

Victor: Understand your frustration, but I have made the point before that the draft is in fact a lottery or crapshoot and therefore the results are going to be very random and that one can probably make the case that in the end any teams' draft results over a relatively short period are going to be based mostly on luck. If there is any skill to the draft - and there is some skill here - its getting the players in the right rows which is to some extent Ross' job (although even what he does is heavily, heavily influenced by the player grades from the scouts.) However, once you get the guys in the right rows it really is a crapshoot and I don't believe there is anyone ever who could tell you with any certainty at all that this or that player was guaranteed to make the league or not. In that vein I made a joke with a guy from the board the other day that if I gave you the names of the Giants likely short list this year - DEs Lawson and Ogbah, CBs Hargreaves abd Alexander, DTs Robinson and Billins, OT Stanley, WR Treadwell and RB Elliott - that if he asked his wife or girlfiend to make the pick from those guys based on which was her favorite color of their respective school's uniforms that she would likely a hit rate pretty close to that of even the most seasoned NFL personnel guy. Remember when everybody (including every last BBI guy) just loved Robert Galloway. Also remember the 1990s when the Giants couldn't buy a first rounder, but actually killed a bunch of second rounder ( Strahan, Toomer, Tiki). And here's the thing that most people don't really understand. The number of picks a team actually makes is a very small sample, but the fact is that the Giants scouts and personnel people actually have a long, long paper trail of evaluating players. An individual scout, for example, may write detailed reports on 300-400 players a year which will give you a much better picture of his ability than just looking at one pick here or there. Same with Ross, who as far as I can tell remains a very respected personnel guy around the league, to judge the job he's doing you really would have to look at the totality of the Giants board and how close it is to the actual results rather than the very small random sample that is there actual picks. In the end my guess is that what you are seeing is the fact that the Giants lucked out and hit on a bunch of picks in the 2004-2008 periods and have been in a dry period since because that's how it works. Patience!

lets hope their luck turns.

Chris Mara is there!

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nobody does any real scouting at the game or practices. Its more like a paid holiday (and a chance to spend a few days together) for the staffs from the various teams who all tend to sit around in their own corner of the stands and tell stories and the like!

and after reading that description of what the atmosphere around the Senior Bowl actually is of course Chris Mara is there.

part of every players pre-draft routine is being prepped for these interviews.

I think it would be very wise of the people who will be interacting with the players the most, ie coaches, to be there in person.

In comment 12793827 arniefez said:

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Chris Mara is there! Quote: nobody does any real scouting at the game or practices. Its more like a paid holiday (and a chance to spend a few days together) for the staffs from the various teams who all tend to sit around in their own corner of the stands and tell stories and the like! and after reading that description of what the atmosphere around the Senior Bowl actually is of course Chris Mara is there.

must be a thoroughbred auction in the area

for the Giants to re-evaluate everything they do as an organization. All the things that the Giants never do need to be examined and possible done. I can't understand why they wouldnt send someone down there to watch the entire week of practice and the game. What else are they doing? Relying on NFL Network coverage to get a little insight into the players there? Or do they just think there is nothing to gain from watching the game or practices? One .500 season and 3 losing seasons says that they might not want to sit back on the Giants way and see what they can do to be better prepared for the draft.

also a company employed by most NFL teams that compiles a list of "players to watch" prior to the start of the college season?

So most of the NFL scouting is focused on the players on that list.