Just a random LB thought

at SS that BBI wants him to switch to LB?

Does he have the frame to carry 15 lbs more and still be able to actually move?

...it's the wrong time to consider moving Collins to LB imo. Let's see what the kid can do at SS next season just get him some help in the deep middle and turn him loose along the LoS.

Even at MLB. Seems to have the right tools to play LB in the passing game.

Seems like a big switch from S to LB though. And the MLB typically runs the defense.

You'd be essentially ensuring another rookie season for Collins and I'm not sure there's enough time in the off-season to get the guy ready to play a new position regardless of his innate skill set.

But Wasn't Urlacher drafted as a S and converted to LB? Or, am I thinking of someone else?

I see a possible very good to potential great SAM.

...the roster has to be considered. S is arguably the weakest position on the team right now. If you move Collins now you literally have to find a minimum of three safeties this offseason.

used out of position is not his fault, but Reese for lack of planning and Spags for not putting him in a position to succeed.

Do you really want to rely on Kennard as the MLB? A younger version of Beason: has talent, can't stay on the field. By week 6 you'll be looking at Inga or some other scrub at MLB

In comment 12794460 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:

But Wasn't Urlacher drafted as a S and converted to LB? Or, am I thinking of someone else?

IIRC, Urlacher was a hybrid SS/LB in college - so he had the size already.

Similar to Collins in size?

In comment 12794470 joeinpa said:

Quote:

Similar to Collins in size?

Yep, think he was 208 when drafted.

Your right, I'm going to take Devon Kennard out behind the barn and put him down. Great post

.

HH is trying to be very funny.

the geniuses here would of cut Thomas Davis Sr after his first ACL, if the didn't cut him in the first try they surely would of cut him on the second try. You would of had to medicate people here after his third. Nothing makes some of you happier than when a player gets reinsured after you call him a china doll from your couch stuffing your fat jowls with nachos and Doritos

would be more of a permanent one to a Big Nickel 4-2-5 than having Collins be considered as the WOLB. He's good in close to the LOS but loses effectiveness as he moves farther down the field, although he plays the TE deep in Man better than working a zone in Cover 2 , or Heaven forbid, the back third in 3 Deep. He is a weapon, a defensive force. So is Rodgers-Cromartie, Pierre-Paul, Hankins & Ayers, who is vastly underrated on this board. Therefore, he & JPP should be re-signed.

Casillas is decent in coverage. Wade is a + blitzer, who exhibits timing, deception, speed and force on his pressures. That represents the core for the Read N React VP-GM.

The Giants need to add Mario Williams. Vinnie Curry, along with Cox, will soon be extended by the Eagles. Brinkley is a big hitter & a fumble-causing machine. However he is a limited athlete. He is more like the Redskins Mikes from the 80s. Guys like Millen & Gouveia. Speed is now needed to play MLB. Reese needs to address that position as well.

but I hope we get a chance to see Nat Behre and Mykkle Thompson get extended playing time this spring and summer

Kennard is not being moved to Mike. (If the Giants thought his best position was Mike they would have moved him already.)

Collins will go to SS not to LB. (We need safeties as much as we do LB and SS is Collins' natural position.)

Neither Miller nor Berry will hit the open market. (They will either be signed or tagged by their current teams.)

In comment 12794475 Headhunter said:

Quote:

Your right, I'm going to take Devon Kennard out behind the barn and put him down. Great post

What an intelligent response HH. 2 years with NYG, Kennard missed 4 and 7 games respectively. History of nagging injuries in college. You want to give him a chance, that's fair. Rely on him to be THE GUY? That would be irresponsible. Did you learn nothing from the assemblage of low-round, injury prone draftees that Reese penciled in at Free Safety this year? Every single one of them wound up on IR at some point. And from our own BBI Archives, indications are of Kennard as an average player at best, which is why he was a 5th round pick who some had rated lower:

NFL draft profile
KevinBBWC : 5/10/2014 3:37 pm : link
Analysis
Strengths
Well-proportioned, muscular build. Generally plays on his feet. Can drop into short zones. Good tackler. Has played outside linebacker, middle linebacker and defensive end. Smart and tough. Team captain with outstanding intangibles, including leadership traits and a professional approach.
Weaknesses
Lacks ideal body length and has small hands. Average athletic ability. Dull get-off. Limited explosion and power. Needs to cultivate pass-rush moves. Does not provide enough resistance against the run. Still developing instincts. Non-explosive athlete with pedestrian agility, as evidenced by poor 30-inch vertical and 7.25-second three-cone marks.
Draft Projection
Round 7-Priority free agent
Bottom Line
A well-put-together standup linebacker with NFL bloodlines, Kennard's intangibles outdistance his physical traits, as he lacks the juice to consistently heat up the edge in the pros.
Devon Kennard - ( New Window )

This tells the story of just how weak we are at the position.
Front office didn't pay attention to it and it shows
I agree with some here--Kennard was a stretch and has produced when he plays.
You can't start moving people around to compensate for our front office. Make the position a priority in the draft and move forward

I don't believe in injury prone China dolls destined to get hurt

but don't you concede Victor has a point? Point being that to rely on Kennard as the linchpin of your LB corps and inserting him for Beason seems like "when the hole you're in keeps getting deeper, stop digging". Kennard has had some success on the outside: if, as you posit, we should ignore the variable reasons he has not been able to stay on the field because, as opposed to Beason's knees, e.g., these are different injuries, thus one cannot conclude he is injury prone, why increase the uncertainty by changing his position to one that is, if possible, more important to the success of the d? It smacks a bit of desperation, not that I would mind some the personnel gets you propose, even if unrealistic in terms of cap and availability of the player.

and will be put in the box where he will excel. Vonn Miller is a pipe dream. If by some miracle the Broncos let him go, then I agree the Giants should go all out to get him; but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

With a true FS next to him, he showed enough to expect him to shine. I actually think in a year or two he will be the best player on this D.

Second, Collins himself said he does not plays his best in the 220-225 range. Once he puts on more weight, he is not comfortable and loses some speed and mobility.

So, that's two strikes right off the top of my head.

you call a guy injury prone? 2 straight yrs of IR, 3? 4 out of 5 like Prince? Maybe some of these things will be resolved with the new strength and conditioning staff, but living in the present, the Giants have had too many years of massive IR contingents to ignore any player's injury history.

Von Miller isn't going anywhere. The Broncos are a smart organization that consistently puts a very competitive product on the field year, after year, after year. They are not going to let their star pass rusher walk. They are going to team Von with Ray and continue to have an awesome YOUNG pass rushing duo.

Now, #94 ... they may let him walk. So I think this board would be better off talking about #94 than #58.

just like I don't believe a lot of easy labels the lazy thinkers throw out there

laugh all you want and Denver probably will not let him walk but the reality is he is a Free Agent until he ain't.

In comment 12794468 section125 said:

Quote:

In comment 12794460 Big Blue '56 said: Quote: But Wasn't Urlacher drafted as a S and converted to LB? Or, am I thinking of someone else? IIRC, Urlacher was a hybrid SS/LB in college - so he had the size already.

Thanks

In comment 12794460 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:

But Wasn't Urlacher drafted as a S and converted to LB? Or, am I thinking of someone else?

He was. He's also about 6'4" so he had the frame for it.

Convert Cooper Taylor!

In comment 12794484 Jim in Tampa said:

Quote:

Kennard is not being moved to Mike. (If the Giants thought his best position was Mike they would have moved him already.) Collins will go to SS not to LB. (We need safeties as much as we do LB and SS is Collins' natural position.) Neither Miller nor Berry will hit the open market. (They will either be signed or tagged by their current teams.)

There was quite a bit of talk regarding Kennard moving to Mike after he had a year under his belt, giving him time to learn the defensive alignments and sets.

In comment 12794481 Headhunter said:

Quote:

the geniuses here would of cut Thomas Davis Sr after his first ACL, if the didn't cut him in the first try they surely would of cut him on the second try. You would of had to medicate people here after his third. Nothing makes some of you happier than when a player gets reinsured after you call him a china doll from your couch stuffing your fat jowls with nachos and Doritos

Holy overreaction. Kennard has also been injured a lot in college. You'd think if anyone would be sympathetic to fan frustration with injured players it would be a Giants fan especially one using injuries as an excuse for poor team performance recently.

Works well, thanks Headhunter!

is an option as of a 10 days ago. No I don't have a link.

In comment 12794562 jbeintherockies said:

Quote:

Von Miller isn't going anywhere. The Broncos are a smart organization that consistently puts a very competitive product on the field year, after year, after year. They are not going to let their star pass rusher walk. They are going to team Von with Ray and continue to have an awesome YOUNG pass rushing duo. Now, #94 ... they may let him walk. So I think this board would be better off talking about #94 than #58.

You mean like how they handled Dumervil? Not really there fault but they still should have figured out how to keep him.

Aonther thing that we label backwards because that's how TC liked it. Weak side, Strong side is not always Right & Left. We get it, Tom. I hope we can call the 20 on in the Red Zone again....

We don't identify FS vs. SS, they play halves of the field. At least that's how it's always been under TC.

Jessie Armstead was about 228lbs. when drafted and he played gunner on special teams. When we switched from a 3-4 to a 4-3 he became the WLB and he played around 235 to 240lbs.

Now I'm half assed backwards

He played MLB for Iowa and has had a year in an NFL program to learn and get stronger.

not FS. You can see the difference in play for calvin pryor once he is put in in natural position.

not with getting Jack and Miller. I dont see how the Giants are going to suddenly go from LBs not being high priority to making them the centerpiece of the defense personnel wise. Most important they need to get a FA DE: Oliver Vernon, even Tamba Hali, and then draft Lawson, or Ogbah. LB in the 3rd.

just like buccanon does for the cards and i was mocked. Now its posted here and some people agree. I said all along collins is good around the line of scrimmage and he's tough and nasty and likes to hit. Would not be a bad move if you could find a SS to replace him. I would do this only if we struggle to find linebackers

I would much rather we find a FS and MIKE that know what they are doing, and leave both Kennard and Collins right where they belong.

Both guys will play better when the guys next to them have a clue, and the whole defense improves exponentially.

maybe...

I think that Collins is the best form tackler on the defense. I think that he is close to LB size with the extra weight I suggested he put on. I think he did well in his first season back there but I feel he could be more of an impact player closer to the LOS. I've read that Kennard to the middle is something that are discussing internally

.

Scouts. Some scout said something along the lines of Kennard would make a fine MLB in the NFL.


And I don't know why we would switch Collins to LB. It's not like he's a poor Safety like his fellow Alabama S Mark Barron was. Collins played out of position last year. If you put him in the box, he'll thrive.

I think he could help the team more closer to the line. He is a fine SS in the making. If he never took a snap at LB and went on to have a long career at SS, I'd be fine with it. I just have a gut feeling he would make an outstanding SAM

Look at how Rams use Barron or Arz uses Buchanon. You can move Collins up, get 2 rangy safeties, and the back 7 is much more athletic and can match up better vs multiple looks.

Barron is an FA. You can sign him and keep Collins at S too. He played the LB spot "called weak safety" in place of Ogletree and was outstanding last year.

He played the position with a Collins like S in McDonald. They could play together.

If you sign Barron, still would need one fast S.

But man, if he can't cover (whether at his safety position or some kind of hybrid LB position) then he looks like just another Reese bust.

He had trouble with this in college, and now we want him to become something he's never been ? Despite having a stellar career at Alabama, this is why he fell out of the 1st round.

Do you really want to rely on Kennard as the MLB? A younger version of Beason: has talent, can't stay on the field. By week 6 you'll be looking at Inga or some other scrub at MLB



There is no doubt that Collins is a SS, not a FS....but in Spags' defense, those positions are not unique...they can flip flop, and that's when Collins gets in trouble....

Collins is weak in pass coverage, and you want to add weight to him and ask him to cover TE's and Slot receivers?

I have to give him the benefit of the doubt...he was a rookie that was thrown into the fire....I have to believe a lot of his decision making, was hampered by this.....with a year of NFL experience, maybe those decisions become easier/quicker and he reacts accordingly.....

Everyone on BBI wants to fix this defense in one season....it's not going to happen....it's not going to happen the following season, either.....as long as we have the same people who put us in this mess, making the decisions, it's a pipe dream.....and the fact we have some cap room, will become discouraging, when Reese can't sign players, or, the ones he does, he will probably overpay, out of desperation....that's been his mantra....he has backed himself into a corner time after time, and has been forced to overpay for the likes of Rolle, Beatty, Baas, Beason, etc.

That's why I say, bolster the offense first, with a couple of linemen, a WR, and RB.....outscore the opposition....strengthen what's easiest to fix, because Eli can't wait for this defense to get back to any kind of force, it once was...

...not gain ten or fifteen pounds.

and do a Landon Collins in coverage.Sure he had a few rough games,but this topic has taken on a life of its own.It's to the point where video evidence is desperately needed.

15 lbs would put a 6'0 safety at approx 240lbs.

Collins is maxed out. He cannot get bigger. He looks stiff and he needs to improve the flexibility in his hips. He needs to improve his balance and change of direction.

I would love to play a true 4-3 with linemen who shoot the gaps. Penetrate and disrupt as opposed to playing to contain. I would love to see us use 2 regular stout LBs in the middle flanked by 2 faster LB/SS types lined up back a few yards from the line to blitz, play contain, play the slot, take away the slants. Collins would thrive in this sort of role.

would be a blazing fast sure tackler. We have a bunch of nobodies back there. Some potential, but none have proven to be NFL quality.

the Giants have LBers and one or more just needs to step up. My problem with that statement is that in order to fix a problem you must first admit that you have one and in my opinion therein lies the real problem..