Who else thought Shockey would have the career Gronkowski

Shockey was 2nd in targets only behind Plax and was well ahead of Toomer in 2005. In 2006, Shockey was # 2 in targets only 1 behind Burress.

was the team trying to manage Shockey's barking at and showing up a young Eli during games. It began to result in Eli not looking or throwing to Shockey.

like an asshole instead of playing the game. Big talent, small brain.

He was big and fast and played with passion. But he was injured often, he had bad hands and he couldn't be relied on the be where he was supposed to be when running a route.

He had 6 really good years w/NY. Could they have been better - yes

No one expects a TE to do what Gronk is doing. It is ludicrously good. Staggering numbers on the TD's and YPC

1st 6 years:

Shockey 83 games 371 rec 4228 11.4 ypc 27 TD's

Gronk 80 games 380 rec 5555 14.6 ypc 65 TD's

He was very athletic for his size.
His hands weren't spectacular.
His routes weren't spectacular.
He was an asshole.
He liked to party hard, mouth off, and be the star.
He lifted weights and worked out like an possessed man.
He was constantly injured.
I have no idea what kind of student of the game or teammate he was, but we all heard rumors.

I used to talk him up over Witten early in his career. In reality a guy like Witten is always the better option. Shockey never would have been like Gronkowski.

He's a nice guy today. My son's good friend is a bartender in Miami and Shockey was a regular at the bar. He said he was very nice to everyone.

an all timer. His first couple of years he was a true impact player at TE. He changed the game for the Giants. Made everybody better because he was a matchup nightmare.

was the first round pick the Giants got from the Saints.

otherwise we was a talented, selfish, immature player

In comment 12798037 AP in Halfmoon said:

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He's a nice guy today. My son's good friend is a bartender in Miami and Shockey was a regular at the bar. He said he was very nice to everyone.

My nasty comment: "Off the 'roids?"

I think its the opposite. His talent was underrated.

People talking about his hands on not staying on his feet? He had excellent hands. Could adjust for any ball and snatch it. He dropped a few memorable passes (SF playoff game) but the guy could really catch for a man his size.

Outstanding movement too. He was explosive out of his cuts and consistently got open.

He was a HOF talent. One of the best TE talents of the last 30 years. Not on Gronk's level but he was right there with anybody else.

You're probably right

one of the first things mentioned about Shockey was his hands. They were apparently so soft, you never heard the ball hit his hands. Complete revisionist history on his talent. The guy's body broke down, and he was an asshole. That was the nuts and bolts of why he never fulfilled his potential. You could also argue that Coughlin wasted his talents asking him to stay in and block so often, it's unnecessary wear and tear for a weapon like that IMO.

When he was #2 in targets every year?

bad memory on my part.

but did Coughlin split Shockey out wide as often as Fassel?

In comment 12798063 AP in Halfmoon said:

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When he was #2 in targets every year?

This is the basis of my comment on his hands not being spectacular. He had good hands. But if he was second in targets every year why weren't his stats out of this world?

His catch percentage in some of his best years would seem to be pedestrian for a guy with such amazing talent (which I believe he had).

But is no coincidence the offense got better when Boss, a fraction of the talent, took over.

Running the right routes and not acting a fool are more important than physical talent.

In comment 12798079 Patrick77 said:

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In comment 12798063 AP in Halfmoon said: Quote: When he was #2 in targets every year? This is the basis of my comment on his hands not being spectacular. He had good hands. But if he was second in targets every year why weren't his stats out of this world? His catch percentage in some of his best years would seem to be pedestrian for a guy with such amazing talent (which I believe he had).

I think it had to do with not running the right routes, or making the correct reads more than his actual hands.

But the point about Eli improving after Shockey left is important too

In comment 12797958 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:

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Ttalented guy for sure, just not once in a generation like Gronk. Gronk is a freakshow. Shockey was on the same tier as Witten talent-wise imo, maybe even slightly more impressive athletically because of how explosive he could be. But beyond the nonsense, his ball skills just weren't that great imo. He struggled to catch the ball and stay on his feet. It was an infuriating flaw in his game. He left a ton of TDs on the field by not having good balance. Gronk on the otherhand is awesome at coming down with the ball with good balance and running over DBs on the way to another TD.

Pretty much this ^^^^

How he couldn't catch a ball down the field and stay on his feet? I swear I can remember how much this annoyed me when he played. I'm pretty sure other BBIers ripped him for it at the time too.

On the flipside Beckham might be the best I've ever seen at having his feet set on downfield throws and exploding after those catches.

Jeremy Shockey would've fell down on the Boss/Harrison long catch at the Super Bowl.

Though.

ME

I remember leaving my wife alone on the beach to get to the sole TV at some terrible, over-expensive Caribbean place to watch him get drafted by the Giants long ago. Did I ever think he was going to be it -- just IT! He wasn't. Gronk is.

What would Bavaro do in this version of the NFL?

SHockey was a great talent and a moron. He also broke down which probably was at least partially caused with him being a moron.

As a player, but he was/is the poster child for ADD. He had too much ego and not enough brains. Plus the injuries didn't help. He screwed up plenty of routes. Vikings game in 2007 comes to mind. Guy had major focus issues and acted like party animal his whole career. Not that you needed inside info to see that.

In comment 12798136 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:

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How he couldn't catch a ball down the field and stay on his feet? I swear I can remember how much this annoyed me when he played. I'm pretty sure other BBIers ripped him for it at the time too. On the flipside Beckham might be the best I've ever seen at having his feet set on downfield throws and exploding after those catches. Jeremy Shockey would've fell down on the Boss/Harrison long catch at the Super Bowl.

Agree 100%.

Do we not forget how much of a weapon Shockey was in 2002 when he got to the Giants? Why do you think Toomer was getting open so much and he had that 82 reception year with 8 touchdowns? Shockey was another wide receiver out there, every time he had his hands on the ball you were anticipating something. I really wanted that 2002 team at the time to go far because I thought they had such potential when Collins was playing well. After the stinker 2001 season, Shockey was the best thing to happen to the Giants at the time.

I really liked that offense in 2005 when it was Plaxico, Shockey, Toomer and Tiki, so many different weapons. Maybe that’s the reason he wasn’t putting up out of control numbers. I agree with the others saying he wasn’t really used the right way. The guy didn’t go to Miami to learn how to become a blocker. I think his biggest issue was he never played a full 16 game season and was hurt a bunch of times and his “attitude” wasn’t the best. OK, sure he wasn’t Gronk but to say his best moment was when he got traded to the Saints was absolute crap. You don’t think he wanted to win? He wasn’t the most conforming guy/player in the world but he won two Super Bowls and had a “good enough” career.

In comment 12798039 Larry in Pencilvania said:

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was the first round pick the Giants got from the Saints. otherwise we was a talented, selfish, immature player

Wasn't it a 2nd rd pick?

athletes that you go to see ...just for his name.

funny because on his second play from scrimmmage I was comparing Beckham to Shockey.

The impact he had in those first years was dominating and I thought I was watching greatness. To me, the whole game seemed to revolve around him. I agree with all the praise for Witten and that he had a better career, but in one sense he never did what Shockey did.

In comment 12798136 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:

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How he couldn't catch a ball down the field and stay on his feet? I swear I can remember how much this annoyed me when he played. I'm pretty sure other BBIers ripped him for it at the time too. On the flipside Beckham might be the best I've ever seen at having his feet set on downfield throws and exploding after those catches. Jeremy Shockey would've fell down on the Boss/Harrison long catch at the Super Bowl.

It's like chewing gum and walking. His brain was only able to focus on one act at at time. Catching or continued placement of his feet.

to protecting his lower body from hits, not unlike Donnell.

wound up being Will Beatty and Rhett Bomar.
Saints acquire Shockey for draft picks - ( New Window )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tjxKtoyc5E

In comment 12797990 AP in Halfmoon said:

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Shockey was 2nd in targets only behind Plax and was well ahead of Toomer in 2005. In 2006, Shockey was # 2 in targets only 1 behind Burress.

It wasn't a matter of targets, it was a matter of use - Shockey was used to being split wide more often, and blocking less. Coughlin's scheme used the TE differently than the way Fassel's had, and what Shockey had become accustomed to.

I don't think anyone can contend that the Saints didn't use Shockey differently, and even though it was the tail end of his career where he was physically a different player, he was still productive.

That doesn't write Shockey some sort of pass - he was still all the things mentioned in this thread, undisciplined, out of shape, a jackass towards Eli. His work ethic and his behavior towards his QB were the main differences between him and Gronk (who is also physically more talented).

Something the Giants had been missing for a while until he stepped on the field.

...and having the body control of a person running out of a burning building, Shockey had plenty of intangibles to separate himself from similar tight ends with size and speed.

as good as Gronk but not the intelligence, Shockey seemed to enjoy being a tough guy over being a talented football player..

In comment 12798653 jsuds said:

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Something the Giants had been missing for a while until he stepped on the field.

Mike Strahan on line 1 for you.

used to run whatever routes he wanted and hung Eli out to dry?

Shockey was targeted most in his rookie year (128 times), but after that he was targeted 121 times in 2005, where he had 891 yards and 7 touchdowns. He was also targeted 115 times in 2006. This is despite Eli having a better receiver in Burress than Collins ever had.

Statistically, Shockey's best year wasn't his rookie season, it was 2005. He had only 9 fewer receptions and 3 fewer yards, had 7 touchdowns compared to 2, and had the highest yards per catch of his season at 13.7. That's despite working with a quarterback who was only in his first full year as a starter.

I think people arguing that Fassel used Shockey better than Coughlin are remembering incorrectly and ignoring how quickly Shockey's body broke down.

that Shockey was actually just dumb. How he remained in college for any length of time is inexplicable.

Good, bad, or ugly he gave his all. Glad when he was here, wished he could have adjusted overtime, stayed healthy, and became more of a lasting icon. But sometimes a player needs to go elsewhere to become more. To goto the next level. Playing within the big apple media circle is not always best for everyone either.

If he had he would have learned the playbook and run the right routes.

In comment 12799255 mrvax said:

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that Shockey was actually just dumb. How he remained in college for any length of time is inexplicable.

guys come out of college today barely able to write with a crayon

I wasn't a fan of how he went about his business but he was as talented as anyone to play the position.

he had the physical tools. The Giants IMO only tapped into about 75% of his ability. He had speed that gave us an advantage when matched up against LBs. However, so often they would have him run 6-8 yards downfield, turn around and stop.... making him easier to cover. Shit like that I just never could understand.

Meanwhile, he also was a destructive force within our offense. There was a card game a few years ago with one of the O-lineman at that time. This was after Shockey left and then Eli had a nice season. This player was asked (he was drunk) why Eli was doing so well and this player said..."Jeremy Shockey". Meaning, he was gone and that helped Eli. Said Shockey (after Eli may have missed a throw to him) would come back to the huddle and just rip into Eli. He said the best thing for the offense was getting rid of Shockey.

type of TE. He's probably the best TE I've ever seen.

Shockey was good for a few brief years, but injuries/attitude really destroyed his career.

In comment 12802763 EricJ said:

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he had the physical tools. The Giants IMO only tapped into about 75% of his ability. He had speed that gave us an advantage when matched up against LBs. However, so often they would have him run 6-8 yards downfield, turn around and stop.... making him easier to cover. Shit like that I just never could understand. Meanwhile, he also was a destructive force within our offense. There was a card game a few years ago with one of the O-lineman at that time. This was after Shockey left and then Eli had a nice season. This player was asked (he was drunk) why Eli was doing so well and this player said..."Jeremy Shockey". Meaning, he was gone and that helped Eli. Said Shockey (after Eli may have missed a throw to him) would come back to the huddle and just rip into Eli. He said the best thing for the offense was getting rid of Shockey.

You'd think o-lineman would say something to shockey.