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Who else thought Shockey would have the career Gronkowski

eightshamrocks : 2/2/2016 3:37 pm
Is enjoying? After his 2002 season, I thought the sky was the limit for Shockey. Unfortunately, he did not live up to the hype the NY media placed on him. He still was an excellent player for a few seasons, but he was placed on a pedestal of being a HOF lock after that rookie season. So who is to blame for Shockey not becoming what Gronkowski is? No as talented? Scheme? Injuries? Shockey's attitude? I just hope BeckhamThey are holding us here for an indefinite time lives up to the hype. He has been placed on the same pedestal that Shockey was placed on. A lot depends on him staying healthy, of course. Also intersting that th Giants have nit had a TE of Shockey's caliber since he was jettisoned to NO. This dispite the fact that h didn't live up to the hype. The Giants need an excellent TE again. I don't think that player is on the roster at the moment.
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Gronk is an all time great  
AP in Halfmoon : 2/2/2016 3:40 pm : link
but having Brady in his prime helps him a lot. Shockey was injured and was a borderline psycho.
Shockey himself and injuries  
JonC : 2/2/2016 3:40 pm : link
He lost some ability after the HOF game injury, ironically. And later he became too musclebound trying to make up for the lost AA. Being a party boy dope was always in his path as well.
I was hoping for Bavaro...  
Drewcon40 : 2/2/2016 3:43 pm : link
...in Shockey.
Shockey  
Enzo : 2/2/2016 3:44 pm : link
had incredible speed for his size which helped to offset mediocre hands and low football IQ. Once the speed declined due to injury, he was just another guy out there.
RE: Shockey himself and injuries  
eightshamrocks : 2/2/2016 3:45 pm : link
In comment 12797914 JonC said:
Quote:
He lost some ability after the HOF game injury, ironically. And later he became too musclebound trying to make up for the lost AA. Being a party boy dope was always in his path as well.
Are you referring to his first gane as a Giant against the Texans when he trucked that poor DB? I wasn't aware he was injured in that HOF game.
I did  
djm : 2/2/2016 3:49 pm : link
..and I always envisioned SHockey would play the roll of Tyree in super bowl 42. Tyree himself earned it though.
Yep  
JonC : 2/2/2016 3:52 pm : link
.
He never took care of himself besides lifting weights  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/2/2016 3:53 pm : link
.
RE: Yep  
Randy in CT : 2/2/2016 3:53 pm : link
In comment 12797930 JonC said:
Quote:
.
Yeah? I don't recall it that way...

But yeah, I was thinking that he would bowl over the league after that initial performance.
I wonder if  
Semipro Lineman : 2/2/2016 4:00 pm : link
was around today, would he overwhelm the less physical defenses Gronkowski is facing?

I also have to wonder if Shockey would thrive in New England's supposedly complex offensive scheme? As much of a partier Gronkowski seems to be, there is no question of his ability to be on the same page as his QB. Is that because of the extra work in the film room, great coaching, or just great recognition skill?
rodne  
JonC : 2/2/2016 4:01 pm : link
The HOF injury always followed him afterwards from what I was told. Over time, his leg injuries accumulated.
I Liked His Physical Skills  
Trainmaster : 2/2/2016 4:02 pm : link
but as some have said, what concerned me was he wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer football IQ wise and he was a party guy from Univ of Mia.
RE: rodne  
Randy in CT : 2/2/2016 4:03 pm : link
In comment 12797946 JonC said:
Quote:
The HOF injury always followed him afterwards from what I was told. Over time, his leg injuries accumulated.
In all honesty, I don't remember the injury in that game? Ankle?
TC would never have used him the way Belechick  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 2/2/2016 4:09 pm : link
uses Gronk. TC wanted Shockey to be a blocker first. It was part of the friction bewteen Shockey and the team.

The whole NE offense sometimes seems like it is flipped on its head. WRs running short possession routes over the middle and TEs running deeper routes. Belechick's genius is that he isn't stubborn in what he does. He adapts to the talent as opposed to adapting the talent to his system.

Shockey under Belechick - he would have been great. IMHO
not nearly as talented  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/2/2016 4:10 pm : link
Ttalented guy for sure, just not once in a generation like Gronk. Gronk is a freakshow.

Shockey was on the same tier as Witten talent-wise imo, maybe even slightly more impressive athletically because of how explosive he could be.

But beyond the nonsense, his ball skills just weren't that great imo. He struggled to catch the ball and stay on his feet. It was an infuriating flaw in his game. He left a ton of TDs on the field by not having good balance. Gronk on the otherhand is awesome at coming down with the ball with good balance and running over DBs on the way to another TD.
What Hall of Fame injury?  
Milton : 2/2/2016 4:11 pm : link
That was his rookie pre-season and he followed it up with his most dominant year.
RE: RE: rodne  
JonC : 2/2/2016 4:13 pm : link
In comment 12797949 Randy in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 12797946 JonC said:


Quote:


The HOF injury always followed him afterwards from what I was told. Over time, his leg injuries accumulated.

In all honesty, I don't remember the injury in that game? Ankle?


Ankle or foot, I forget too.
RE: TC would never have used him the way Belechick  
Ten Ton Hammer : 2/2/2016 4:16 pm : link
In comment 12797957 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
uses Gronk. TC wanted Shockey to be a blocker first. It was part of the friction bewteen Shockey and the team.

The whole NE offense sometimes seems like it is flipped on its head. WRs running short possession routes over the middle and TEs running deeper routes. Belechick's genius is that he isn't stubborn in what he does. He adapts to the talent as opposed to adapting the talent to his system.

Shockey under Belechick - he would have been great. IMHO


Yeah, polar opposite scheme. Had Aaron Hernandez not been a psychopath, NE would basically live in two wide-TE and 3-TE sets, whereas TC firmly believed in WRs as playmakers
RE: TC would never have used him the way Belechick  
AP in Halfmoon : 2/2/2016 4:18 pm : link
In comment 12797957 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
uses Gronk. TC wanted Shockey to be a blocker first. It was part of the friction bewteen Shockey and the team.

The whole NE offense sometimes seems like it is flipped on its head. WRs running short possession routes over the middle and TEs running deeper routes. Belechick's genius is that he isn't stubborn in what he does. He adapts to the talent as opposed to adapting the talent to his system.

Shockey under Belechick - he would have been great. IMHO


I'm calling BS
RE: not nearly as talented  
njm : 2/2/2016 4:19 pm : link
In comment 12797958 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:

Shockey was on the same tier as Witten talent-wise imo, maybe even slightly more impressive athletically because of how explosive he could be.


Shockey was more talented than Witten everywhere except between the ears.
After having 2 TDs  
chuckydee9 : 2/2/2016 4:23 pm : link
in his rookie season, you expected him to become the greatest TE the world has ever seen? He was never going to be that talented.. Not BB, Not Vince Lombardi and probably no one other than god himself was going to make him the best TE ever.. One of the best part of Gronks game is that he is a great blocker.. Most consider him to be the best blocking TE in the game..
btw  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/2/2016 4:23 pm : link
I was talking about him making catches downfield and staying on his feet. He just struggled to do it.

He was agreat YAC-wise when it was an easy short pass and he could truck a poor DB or outrun a LBer.

I think Witten had better hands and was a better blocker but Shockey was probably more talented overall.
As an example  
AP in Halfmoon : 2/2/2016 4:24 pm : link
when healthy in 2005, Shockey was targeted 121 and 115 times in 2006. But Coughlin didn't know how to use him and kept him in to block!
RE: TC would never have used him the way Belechick  
jcn56 : 2/2/2016 4:26 pm : link
In comment 12797957 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
uses Gronk. TC wanted Shockey to be a blocker first. It was part of the friction bewteen Shockey and the team.

The whole NE offense sometimes seems like it is flipped on its head. WRs running short possession routes over the middle and TEs running deeper routes. Belechick's genius is that he isn't stubborn in what he does. He adapts to the talent as opposed to adapting the talent to his system.

Shockey under Belechick - he would have been great. IMHO


Agreed - which is why the people who were constantly yelling for expensive TEs were off target.

Look, for all everyone's saying about how Shockey was physically cooked, a dope, a party animal - he was still effective when Payton got his hands on him.

And of course, since we're comparing (and I don't believe Shockey was on par with Gronk), it's not as if Gronk doesn't party or is some kind of rocket scientist.
TC Use of Shockey  
Samiam : 2/2/2016 4:30 pm : link
TC used him as a blocker out of necessity because the OL was pretty bad in those days. TC was pretty creative offensively and would have Shockey to go deep if he could have. Actually, I think it was Fassel who started keeping Shockey in for blocking for the same reason. And, he became a pretty good blocker
jcn56  
AP in Halfmoon : 2/2/2016 4:31 pm : link
Shockey was 2nd in targets only behind Plax and was well ahead of Toomer in 2005. In 2006, Shockey was # 2 in targets only 1 behind Burress.
Part of the usage problem  
JonC : 2/2/2016 4:36 pm : link
was the team trying to manage Shockey's barking at and showing up a young Eli during games. It began to result in Eli not looking or throwing to Shockey.
Shockey was his own worst enemy. He was too worried about acting  
Victor in CT : 2/2/2016 4:57 pm : link
like an asshole instead of playing the game. Big talent, small brain.
He did have much of the talent that Gronk has.  
Ira : 2/2/2016 5:01 pm : link
He was big and fast and played with passion. But he was injured often, he had bad hands and he couldn't be relied on the be where he was supposed to be when running a route.
Shockey  
stretch234 : 2/2/2016 5:02 pm : link
He had 6 really good years w/NY. Could they have been better - yes

No one expects a TE to do what Gronk is doing. It is ludicrously good. Staggering numbers on the TD's and YPC

1st 6 years:

Shockey 83 games 371 rec 4228 11.4 ypc 27 TD's

Gronk 80 games 380 rec 5555 14.6 ypc 65 TD's
I was a huge Shockey fan but we all massively overrated the guy  
Patrick77 : 2/2/2016 5:07 pm : link
He was very athletic for his size.
His hands weren't spectacular.
His routes weren't spectacular.
He was an asshole.
He liked to party hard, mouth off, and be the star.
He lifted weights and worked out like an possessed man.
He was constantly injured.
I have no idea what kind of student of the game or teammate he was, but we all heard rumors.

I used to talk him up over Witten early in his career. In reality a guy like Witten is always the better option. Shockey never would have been like Gronkowski.
But from all reports  
AP in Halfmoon : 2/2/2016 5:14 pm : link
He's a nice guy today. My son's good friend is a bartender in Miami and Shockey was a regular at the bar. He said he was very nice to everyone.
I thought he would be  
KWALL2 : 2/2/2016 5:15 pm : link
an all timer. His first couple of years he was a true impact player at TE. He changed the game for the Giants. Made everybody better because he was a matchup nightmare.
best thing I remember about Shockey  
Larry in Pencilvania : 2/2/2016 5:15 pm : link
was the first round pick the Giants got from the Saints.

otherwise we was a talented, selfish, immature player
RE: But from all reports  
njm : 2/2/2016 5:16 pm : link
In comment 12798037 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
He's a nice guy today. My son's good friend is a bartender in Miami and Shockey was a regular at the bar. He said he was very nice to everyone.


My nasty comment: "Off the 'roids?"
I don't think fans overrate him  
KWALL2 : 2/2/2016 5:20 pm : link
I think its the opposite. His talent was underrated.

People talking about his hands on not staying on his feet? He had excellent hands. Could adjust for any ball and snatch it. He dropped a few memorable passes (SF playoff game) but the guy could really catch for a man his size.

Outstanding movement too. He was explosive out of his cuts and consistently got open.

He was a HOF talent. One of the best TE talents of the last 30 years. Not on Gronk's level but he was right there with anybody else.
NJM  
AP in Halfmoon : 2/2/2016 5:23 pm : link
You're probably right
I remember his first camp  
David in LA : 2/2/2016 5:23 pm : link
one of the first things mentioned about Shockey was his hands. They were apparently so soft, you never heard the ball hit his hands. Complete revisionist history on his talent. The guy's body broke down, and he was an asshole. That was the nuts and bolts of why he never fulfilled his potential. You could also argue that Coughlin wasted his talents asking him to stay in and block so often, it's unnecessary wear and tear for a weapon like that IMO.
How could you argue that  
AP in Halfmoon : 2/2/2016 5:31 pm : link
When he was #2 in targets every year?
You're right, he was targetted quite often  
David in LA : 2/2/2016 5:40 pm : link
bad memory on my part.
I'm not 100% sure on this  
David in LA : 2/2/2016 5:42 pm : link
but did Coughlin split Shockey out wide as often as Fassel?
RE: How could you argue that  
Patrick77 : 2/2/2016 5:53 pm : link
In comment 12798063 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
When he was #2 in targets every year?


This is the basis of my comment on his hands not being spectacular. He had good hands. But if he was second in targets every year why weren't his stats out of this world?

His catch percentage in some of his best years would seem to be pedestrian for a guy with such amazing talent (which I believe he had).
All the talent in the world  
Go Terps : 2/2/2016 6:04 pm : link
But is no coincidence the offense got better when Boss, a fraction of the talent, took over.

Running the right routes and not acting a fool are more important than physical talent.
RE: RE: How could you argue that  
David in LA : 2/2/2016 6:06 pm : link
In comment 12798079 Patrick77 said:
Quote:
In comment 12798063 AP in Halfmoon said:


Quote:


When he was #2 in targets every year?



This is the basis of my comment on his hands not being spectacular. He had good hands. But if he was second in targets every year why weren't his stats out of this world?

His catch percentage in some of his best years would seem to be pedestrian for a guy with such amazing talent (which I believe he had).


I think it had to do with not running the right routes, or making the correct reads more than his actual hands.
Eli wasn't exactly accurate early in his career  
AP in Halfmoon : 2/2/2016 6:07 pm : link
But the point about Eli improving after Shockey left is important too
RE: not nearly as talented  
RinR : 2/2/2016 7:11 pm : link
In comment 12797958 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
Ttalented guy for sure, just not once in a generation like Gronk. Gronk is a freakshow.

Shockey was on the same tier as Witten talent-wise imo, maybe even slightly more impressive athletically because of how explosive he could be.

But beyond the nonsense, his ball skills just weren't that great imo. He struggled to catch the ball and stay on his feet. It was an infuriating flaw in his game. He left a ton of TDs on the field by not having good balance. Gronk on the otherhand is awesome at coming down with the ball with good balance and running over DBs on the way to another TD.


Pretty much this ^^^^
No one else remembers  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/2/2016 7:12 pm : link
How he couldn't catch a ball down the field and stay on his feet? I swear I can remember how much this annoyed me when he played. I'm pretty sure other BBIers ripped him for it at the time too.

On the flipside Beckham might be the best I've ever seen at having his feet set on downfield throws and exploding after those catches.

Jeremy Shockey would've fell down on the Boss/Harrison long catch at the Super Bowl.
I'll always be a fan because of the Dawkins Catch  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 2/2/2016 7:15 pm : link
Though.
YEA  
Howyadoin : 2/2/2016 8:48 pm : link
ME
Shocky No Gronkowski  
Percy : 2/2/2016 9:02 pm : link
I remember leaving my wife alone on the beach to get to the sole TV at some terrible, over-expensive Caribbean place to watch him get drafted by the Giants long ago. Did I ever think he was going to be it -- just IT! He wasn't. Gronk is.
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