rounds...not from me, this comes from one of the NFL GMs in Super Bowl 50, John Elway “We cherish the bottom of the draft. We cannot afford to miss a draft, because we want to be good for a long time here, and teams that are good for a long time do not miss drafts.”
Elway also talks about finding players that love football. He refers to Chris Harris Jr., an undrafted free agent, on that subject and he also talks about drafting speed, not 40 speed but football speed.
Basically he talks about drafting football players not projects or athletes who may or may not be football players...guys who have a competitive fire. Completely contrary to the crap we have heard from Reese since the end of the season.
And for those who think Elway does not know his job or did not earn it...he learned, like BB, from his Dad who was an excellent coach and personnel guy. Elway also earned his spurs running a team in the AFL for 5 years. Fact is, he's been pretty successful...two SBs in five years under two different head coaches.
Blah blah blah.
No offense - but did we need brilliant football mind John Elway to tell us that?
I think his strategy of going for team captains was a positive step last year because then you have a good shot of getting leadership and football desire from the draftee.
Whereas rounds in 3-7 I had (we here as well) typically equaled that or exceeded it using stats and sound logic.
For example, take a quality pundits top 30 or so at a position, cross reference that with a single stat, such as PDs or INTs for linebackers, or Forced Fumbles or Fumbles Recovered for defensive linesmen, and work backwards from that to determine a balance of other obvious stats (tackles, where what type) and only then size and speed, not regarding school attended much at all except with regards to character possibly, or academic style.
For example, understanding that field vision is innate, not taught, and thus giving full credit for college stats, as possibly the only window into it, as opposed to assuming wrongly that it will be 'coached up once here.'
In addition, seeing the draft as a whole item, and this respecting the need to address need early if at all rational value wise, to avoid getting forced to compromise on value lower down, and to play the trends to make value proposition more leveraged all the way down, keeping in mind the teams unique key positions that will enhance the others in that unit/side etc.
OBJ is a great talent but his number one problem is lack of maturity on the field
Jay Bromley was not guilty of rape, thank god. But he did something really stupid in getting involved with this prostitute.
Kennard, Behre and Jackson are all injury prone. Injuries are the Giants #1 problem, so forget about being team captain and draft guys who are healthy.
Andre Williams does seem like a solid citizen but he is a terrible fit for the offense. Again draft a RB who can catch rather than a team captain
Everyone's looking for an easy answer to bang on.
One would do 'strength of each round by position' and try to match that with need to get best value all the down.
(the positional mock is one way to look at that as a fan)
In addition, while doing that, not being locked into a narrow window on 'player type within positional unit', thus lowering the value play within the approach (bromley/odiggy)...
IN addition, not being seduced by 'hype types' (such as tall long armed speedster wide outs as opposed to proven slot receivers with the stats advantage and proven reliability on college), keeping in mind the true value play there, that within the first group, proven players are typically off the board by say, round 4, and 'coaching up the ones with warts' is a crapshoot.
I won't even bring up the absurd fantasy of a GM winning two Super Bowls in his first five years. I bet nobody has ever done that.
One would do 'strength of each round by position' and try to match that with need to get best value all the down.
(the positional mock is one way to look at that as a fan)
In addition, while doing that, not being locked into a narrow window on 'player type within positional unit', thus lowering the value play within the approach (bromley/odiggy)...
IN addition, not being seduced by 'hype types' (such as tall long armed speedster wide outs as opposed to proven slot receivers with the stats advantage and proven reliability on college), keeping in mind the true value play there, that within the first group, proven players are typically off the board by say, round 4, and 'coaching up the ones with warts' is a crapshoot.
Help me out here - how does identifying players by value positionally for the entire draft differ from doing that on a round by round basis, if at the end of the day you're still selecting the guy with the highest ranking left on the board?
In other words, in the early part of the draft (top 20 players) you have a great ratio of staff time to player number.
So, consequently, they do fairly well.
Lower down, you have 1,000's of guys, and they have wildly varying value tags depending on whom you ask.
So, lower rounds demand sound logic and rational insight more so that professional expertise, and in that area they are lacking as opposed to ourselves.
That would be 'on you.'
What they assume is 'best overall' below round 2 has been very poor to date and I would not assume that such is even the method.
With my method, you manage the time invested as well as the draft as a whole, keeping in mind that teams operate as whole units, not groups of individuals.
3rd "likely to still have best players at position x still on the board" (often free safety, for example)
4th "likely to have best players at position Y still on the boards" (tight ends, or what have you, slot wrs)
The, taking your team needs and style into account, play the draft as a whole unit.
Richard Sherman and Tom Brady are classic examples. If the teams really were that good in the draft, they would have drafted either player in the first not in the fifth. As it was, any other team could have taken those players a minimum of four times before the Seahawks and NE wound up with them. Instead their evaluation was that they were fifth round players - which clearly was wrong. The other teams were more wrong, but that didn't make the Seahawks and NE brilliant - just lucky.
The teams that do well in the draft look really smart. But they often were just a little bit less wrong then everyone else. This says it all "Elway also talks about finding players that love football. He refers to Chris Harris Jr., an undrafted free agent, on that subject.... " If the guy is that good, Elway should have drafted him, not waited until every other GM passed on the player 7 times.
That doesn't mean that some teams/GMs aren't just bad in the draft. Cleveland proves that. However, it is very hard to be consistently right in the draft. Very few teams are. Elway has a long way to go before he can be considered to have a golden touch
That Victor Cruz put of high #'s of catches yet in a division / at a school not as hyped as some others?
take a QB who played well behind a crap line as opposed to the one who played at the powerhouse?
Its more about avoiding bullshit than it is about insight.
President/CEO – John Mara
Chairman/Executive Vice President – Steve Tisch
Senior Vice President/General Manager – Jerry Reese
Senior Vice President of Player Personnel – Chris Mara
Vice President of Player Evaluation – Marc Ross
Assistant General Manager – Kevin Abrams
Director of Pro Personnel – Ken Sternfeld
Director of Player Development – David Tyree
Director of Football Operations – Vacant
Head Coaches
Head Coach – Ben McAdoo. After the Coughlin resignation we were told everybody has input into our draft selections. Has this undergone a change the last three years ? Anybody know ?
"I could be home drinking this killer egg-nog my brother makes with lighter fluid!"
Look at how BB sees how lower end guys can contribute, at least 1-3 years,; look how we have commended Seattle for hitting on their lower round picks; and now Denver has adopted the all picks count philosophy. And look at all the reachs and projects we've heard JR talk about.
Of course passion and heart are part of(or should be) the measurables; guys with that tend to have a hunger to learn, and if drafted 4-7, have the chip on the shoulder with something to prove.
Of course it helps to have a real clear vision of how the pick fits what you do, or plan to do, and not try to wedge a Sintim into what you do. Not sure BPA does that.
This draft should be interesting, especially from one perspective I've been complaining about for about 15 years: player/team speed. I look at other teams and I see guys like Keuchly and other bigger D players that are quicker or faster than our offensive guys, save OBJ. Our LBs cant go side to side quick enough to catch RBs behind the line but instead get outside their grasp and pick up 15. Our sweeps take to long to form.
Hoping JR has an '07 like draft.
Look at how BB sees how lower end guys can contribute, at least 1-3 years,; look how we have commended Seattle for hitting on their lower round picks; and now Denver has adopted the all picks count philosophy. And look at all the reachs and projects we've heard JR talk about.
Of course passion and heart are part of(or should be) the measurables; guys with that tend to have a hunger to learn, and if drafted 4-7, have the chip on the shoulder with something to prove.
Of course it helps to have a real clear vision of how the pick fits what you do, or plan to do, and not try to wedge a Sintim into what you do. Not sure BPA does that.
This draft should be interesting, especially from one perspective I've been complaining about for about 15 years: player/team speed. I look at other teams and I see guys like Keuchly and other bigger D players that are quicker or faster than our offensive guys, save OBJ. Our LBs cant go side to side quick enough to catch RBs behind the line but instead get outside their grasp and pick up 15. Our sweeps take to long to form.
Hoping JR has an '07 like draft.
Guys who are available in rounds 3 through 7, compared to guys selected in rounds 1 and 2: are generally:
1) Not as big, fast, strong (can't change big, hard to change fast, can change strong)
2) Not as productive (might be the system they were in / poor fit which can change)
3) Not as skilled (might have the physical tools, but might not has the skills; this may be the where the teaching emphasis changes who the Giants draft)
4) Not as healthy (the Giants have gambled here and had mixed results at best; given the rash of injuries the last 3 years, I sincerely hope the Giants don't pick players with long / severe injury histories)
5) Not as "clean" as far as substance abuse, legal problems etc. (the Giants usually shy away from these guys; Bradshaw being worth the risk in rnd 7)
Look at how BB sees how lower end guys can contribute, at least 1-3 years,; look how we have commended Seattle for hitting on their lower round picks; and now Denver has adopted the all picks count philosophy. And look at all the reachs and projects we've heard JR talk about.
Of course passion and heart are part of(or should be) the measurables; guys with that tend to have a hunger to learn, and if drafted 4-7, have the chip on the shoulder with something to prove.
Of course it helps to have a real clear vision of how the pick fits what you do, or plan to do, and not try to wedge a Sintim into what you do. Not sure BPA does that.
This draft should be interesting, especially from one perspective I've been complaining about for about 15 years: player/team speed. I look at other teams and I see guys like Keuchly and other bigger D players that are quicker or faster than our offensive guys, save OBJ. Our LBs cant go side to side quick enough to catch RBs behind the line but instead get outside their grasp and pick up 15. Our sweeps take to long to form.
Hoping JR has an '07 like draft.
Yep. It's about drafting football players with football passion, not just athletes. From what I understand the Giants were doing a bit of athlete drafting when Ross arrived but hat had changed since 2013... And the drafts have improved !
No offense - but did we need brilliant football mind John Elway to tell us that?
Look at Denver's roster, maybe the Giants should listen to Elway. lol
It boggles the mind how lonely your life must be to keep creating new handles.
Priorities, man, priorities....
The rest of their D 3 1s, 2, 5, 6 UFA
Thomas was a 1, Latimer a 2, Clady was a 1, Hillman a 3, Sambrailo a 2
A bunch of shit
Link - ( New Window )
President/CEO – John Mara
Chairman/Executive Vice President – Steve Tisch
Senior Vice President/General Manager – Jerry Reese
Senior Vice President of Player Personnel – Chris Mara
Vice President of Player Evaluation – Marc Ross
Assistant General Manager – Kevin Abrams
Director of Pro Personnel – Ken Sternfeld
Director of Player Development – David Tyree
Director of Football Operations – Vacant
Head Coaches
Head Coach – Ben McAdoo. After the Coughlin resignation we were told everybody has input into our draft selections. Has this undergone a change the last three years ? Anybody know ?
Something changed in the front office when the drafts got better. ( around 2013 ) someone here said that C. Mara was put over Reese's org ... don't know if true or not... that is significant if true and right around the time the drafting improved.
I won't even bring up the absurd fantasy of a GM winning two Super Bowls in his first five years. I bet nobody has ever done that.
how the hell does a GM get credit for winning a SB?
shabu said:
Well sure: it could be significant (or not) if true, but here's the rub, straight from Chris Mara's bio on Giants.com:
Awesome: just in time to straighten out Reese & Ross, and oversee the selection of David Wilson, Jayron Hosley and Adrien Robinson. I couldn't find the date of his promotion, so I might be unfairly denying him credit for Marvin Austin, Jerrel Jernigan and James Brewer.