NFT: Knicks Chat 2/4/2016

or adding players or bringing back more a salary.. They need to get better as a team and they try to strike next offseason..

In comment 12800311 blueblood said:

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or adding players or bringing back more a salary.. They need to get better as a team and they try to strike next offseason..

Jennings is an expiring deal, so adding him wouldn't hinder their flexibility at all.

without a first round pick making the playoffs is more important

if we go into sell mode that Thomas, Williams, and Afflalo are all core guys who wont be traded. Calderon, KOQ, Seraphin seen as guys we could trade. That's a mistake IMO. Successful teams build from the top -- the high end talent. You dont lock down the role players before you have the core stars in place. If they decide to become sellers, Thomas, Williams, and Afflalo should be available if we could get a #1 for them. We need #1s. OTOH, I can buy into the notion of not becoming a seller; there is something to be said for winning.
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In comment 12800315 EricNY33 said:

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without a first round pick making the playoffs is more important

Why? You can fairly argue that without a #1 the upside of missing the playoffs isnt there, but if we make the playoffs it is very likely as the #8 seed, and the Cavs will smoke us. Why is that so important.

Also, Jennings doesnt fit in this offense and as mentioned is a UFA. What assets would you give for him? Im not giving Williams, Galloway, Grant, Hernangomez, or future picks for Jennings.

In comment 12800319 Deej said:

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if we go into sell mode that Thomas, Williams, and Afflalo are all core guys who wont be traded. Calderon, KOQ, Seraphin seen as guys we could trade. That's a mistake IMO. Successful teams build from the top -- the high end talent. You dont lock down the role players before you have the core stars in place. If they decide to become sellers, Thomas, Williams, and Afflalo should be available if we could get a #1 for them. We need #1s. OTOH, I can buy into the notion of not becoming a seller; there is something to be said for winning. Link - ( New Window )

But if you get rid of Calderon and O'Quinn keeping those other guys doesn't stop you from adding a top end talent...

You already have 2 in place, you could potentially add 2 more

are probably going to be free agents after the year. Id hate to lose them for nothing since i think you could get something for them. Not anything great, but maybe a super late first, couple seconds, rights to a guy, some young guy at the end of the bench for a contender. At this point i would like to keep all 3 of them (williams, Thomas, and AA) so im ok not moving them. We def shouldnt be adding anyone unless they are just giving them away.

Lee would go to a contender i would guess. Doesnt really fit for us anyway.

Hopefully the wheels don't come off this team and we can reach the high 30s in wins.

- Has gotten stronger, more of a post up guy now (was a PnR guy last year IIRC). Agent said his body has transformed.

- His agent thinks he'd be a top 20 pick if he was in this draft

- He and KP talk EVERY DAY. I knew they were ex-teammates. Didnt know they were that close tho.

Other stuff too
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it sounds like there are quite a few hurdles to getting him over here. Really hope we get him since he is basically our first round pick.

their load over KP
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brother is becoming a big time prospect.

Im going to be pretty shocked if DW doesnt opt out. It like him at 5 million. Do I like him at 10-15 million with Melo and KP on the roster already? Thomas is a free agent who is getting some buzz. Again, do I like him at 8 million? What if he gets more than 10 million?

Im we need to add at least one more leading guy (ie better than Rolo). You do that with cap space or getting lucky in the draft. I dont think you do it committing long term to Lance Thomas, a clear role player. Williams is a different story.

In comment 12800332 Deej said:

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- Has gotten stronger, more of a post up guy now (was a PnR guy last year IIRC). Agent said his body has transformed. - His agent thinks he'd be a top 20 pick if he was in this draft - He and KP talk EVERY DAY. I knew they were ex-teammates. Didnt know they were that close tho. Other stuff too Link - ( New Window )

this is why Berman is awful. He claims the pick was purchased from Philly but in reality we traded cash AND 2 future second rounders for that pick. How does he not know this?

In comment 12800351 Deej said:

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Im going to be pretty shocked if DW doesnt opt out. It like him at 5 million. Do I like him at 10-15 million with Melo and KP on the roster already? Thomas is a free agent who is getting some buzz. Again, do I like him at 8 million? What if he gets more than 10 million? Im we need to add at least one more leading guy (ie better than Rolo). You do that with cap space or getting lucky in the draft. I dont think you do it committing long term to Lance Thomas, a clear role player. Williams is a diff erent story.

Williams flat out said he signed the deal he did so he could opt out. This was only a few weeks ago. He's opting out barring injury.

In comment 12800319 Deej said:

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if we go into sell mode that Thomas, Williams, and Afflalo are all core guys who wont be traded. Calderon, KOQ, Seraphin seen as guys we could trade. That's a mistake IMO. Successful teams build from the top -- the high end talent. You dont lock down the role players before you have the core stars in place. If they decide to become sellers, Thomas, Williams, and Afflalo should be available if we could get a #1 for them. We need #1s. OTOH, I can buy into the notion of not becoming a seller; there is something to be said for winning. Link - ( New Window )

Afflalo and Williams have options this off-season so the Knicks really don't have any control over them anyway. I can't imagine Phil really considers them part of the core going forward. Maybe for this season, and if they're looking to trade that means they're trying to make the playoffs.

In comment 12800350 DanMetroMan said:

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brother is becoming a big time prospect.

DX has him at #26 in the lastest mock. Not quite big time.

In comment 12800351 Deej said:

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Im going to be pretty shocked if DW doesnt opt out. It like him at 5 million. Do I like him at 10-15 million with Melo and KP on the roster already? Thomas is a free agent who is getting some buzz. Again, do I like him at 8 million? What if he gets more than 10 million? Im we need to add at least one more leading guy (ie better than Rolo). You do that with cap space or getting lucky in the draft. I dont think you do it committing long term to Lance Thomas, a clear role player. Williams is a different story.

Aa I can see staying, Williams I would be shocked about unless phil tells him to not opt out and they will extend him the following year but that is a huge risk on Williams part...

I expect a pg to be brought in low risk guy with the hope of getting rid of Calderon and sneaking into the playoffs...

I would absolutely bring Lee in if he is Boughy out and if I am trading for Jennings I am only doing it for Calderon and O'Quinn maybe future second...

It is low risk

In comment 12800322 Deej said:

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In comment 12800315 EricNY33 said: Quote: without a first round pick making the playoffs is more important Why? You can fairly argue that without a #1 the upside of missing the playoffs isnt there, but if we make the playoffs it is very likely as the #8 seed, and the Cavs will smoke us. Why is that so important. Also, Jennings doesnt fit in this offense and as mentioned is a UFA. What assets would you give for him? Im not giving Williams, Galloway, Grant, Hernangomez, or future picks for Jennings.

It's important for Porzingis' development. It would give him a taste of playoff basketball and see the difference between that and the regular season.

in a heartbeat if I can get something decent in return for the future. We can always re-sign them in the offseason if Phil really wants them back.

He would've made those games far more interesting to watch.

In comment 12800365 Deej said:

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In comment 12800350 DanMetroMan said: Quote: brother is becoming a big time prospect. DX has him at #26 in the lastest mock. Not quite big time.

He wasn't even on their top 60 when the season started. I suggest you read a bit more about him.

"Halfway through the ACB regular season, it's safe to say that 20-year old Juan Hernangomez (also called Juancho Hernangomez) has been the revelation of the Spanish league thus far. The 6'9 face-up power forward is putting up historic numbers with Estudiantes for a player his age. His 11.3 points ranks as the highest per game scoring average for a player under 21 since Rudy Fernandez's 13.7 ten years ago. Additionally, his 20.6 PER ranks is second best in the last decade as well (behind Nikola Mirotic), eclipsing some big names (Ricky Rubio, Tiago Splitter, Serge Ibaka, Kristaps Porzingis, Ersan Ilyasova, and his older brother Guillermo/Willy [drafted by the Knicks last June]) in the process so far. "

now would be a typical Knicks "selling low" move. No reason at all to move him at this point unless you're getting a decent pick or two. As the cap rises, his contract is basically barely more than the minimum. If he's in your rotation, he's a bargain.

In comment 12800367 EricNY33 said:

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It's important for Porzingis' development. It would give him a taste of playoff basketball and see the difference between that and the regular season.

Playoffs in year 1 isnt that important for KP's development. Especially if it is to get smoked by LeBron. Better for his development is to surround him with better talent in years 2-10, I think. Getting #1s would help in that regard.

hey my statement was totally wrong.

In comment 12800384 Enzo said:

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now would be a typical Knicks "selling low" move. No reason at all to move him at this point unless you're getting a decent pick or two. As the cap rises, his contract is basically barely more than the minimum. If he's in your rotation, he's a bargain.

Agree. He's so cheap that you dont NEED to move him. Though the more I see of him the less I like. He plays a real old man game.

Dan: Dont want to get into a fight over what being a big time prospect means. But to me if a guy isnt being talked about as high/mid lottery, he's not remotely a big time prospect. Fra Hernangomez isnt even being talked about like that.

is giving up picks for O'Quinn. 2nd rounder? Sure but they have close to zero value because you can always buy them.

In comment 12800398 Deej said:

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In comment 12800384 Enzo said: Quote: now would be a typical Knicks "selling low" move. No reason at all to move him at this point unless you're getting a decent pick or two. As the cap rises, his contract is basically barely more than the minimum. If he's in your rotation, he's a bargain. Agree. He's so cheap that you dont NEED to move him. Though the more I see of him the less I like. He plays a real old man game. Dan: Dont want to get into a fight over what being a big time prospect means. But to me if a guy isnt being talked about as high/mid lottery, he's not remotely a big time prospect. Fra Hernangomez isnt even being talked about like that.

Deej, he went from not even listed on DX to "the breakout star" of his league and is putting up historic numbers for his age. Who knows where he ends up being ranked but "becoming a big time prospect" is far from outrageous like you are making it sound.

Simmons will be the best passing big in the NBA almost instantly. I can't think of anyone who surpasses him. His jumper is a concern of course but his passing is off the charts.

with a series of 4 videos on the evolution of KP. Prepare to orgasm.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 12800319 Deej said:

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if we go into sell mode that Thomas, Williams, and Afflalo are all core guys who wont be traded. Calderon, KOQ, Seraphin seen as guys we could trade. That's a mistake IMO. Successful teams build from the top -- the high end talent. You dont lock down the role players before you have the core stars in place. If they decide to become sellers, Thomas, Williams, and Afflalo should be available if we could get a #1 for them. We need #1s. OTOH, I can buy into the notion of not becoming a seller; there is something to be said for winning. Link - ( New Window )

I think the notion that they are "CORE" players is a bit overstated. I think a better characterization is that they are good fits for what we are trying to do here. Calderon, and even O'Quinn and Seraphin are not really.

In comment 12800387 Deej said:

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In comment 12800367 EricNY33 said: Quote: It's important for Porzingis' development. It would give him a taste of playoff basketball and see the difference between that and the regular season. Playoffs in year 1 isnt that important for KP's development. Especially if it is to get smoked by LeBron. Better for his development is to surround him with better talent in years 2-10, I think. Getting #1s would help in that regard.

It's important in ANY year, even if they get beat. The playoffs are a completely different ballgame, and making it as a rookie will allow him to make adjustments this off-season. And of course adding better talent is going to help him. However, as you said, they lack a pick to do that. IN that case, I'll take the playoffs.

Vice piece reads much like the Nate Silver cumshot piece

"Transported to today's NBA, Sampson's range probably would stretch to the three-point line. His rim defense would be more than adequate, complementing his mobility in defending the pick-and-roll. His facility from the elbows would be a gift, rather than a reason to nitpick his toughness. But even in today's NBA, Sampson would still be an outlier, because he stood 88 INCHES TALL. Only 12 other players in history have been that tall and been allowed to be on an NBA court for even a minute of game time. Sampson doesn't fit into this legacy of bigs with perimeter skills because he's simply far bigger than any other comparables, except maybe the mythologic young/skinny Arvydas Sabonis. No, Sampson stands alone. That is, until we met Porzingis.

There are so many things that make, and are going to make, Porzingis special. It's not just that he's big and versatile. On the spectrum of size he's on the absolute extreme. We don't really have a spectrum for versatility for players this big; it's just Sampson on one end and a half-dozen plodding behemoths on the other. Any talk of Porzingis as a revolutionary talent sets a high bar, for sure. But he's already scraping 7-foot-3, so let's just go ahead and start stocking up on batteries and bottled water."

In comment 12800403 DanMetroMan said:

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Deej, he went from not even listed on DX to "the breakout star" of his league and is putting up historic numbers for his age. Who knows where he ends up being ranked but "becoming a big time prospect" is far from outrageous like you are making it sound.

When someone says he might be a lottery guy, you start that discussion. Going from 60 to 25? Impressive leap.

In comment 12800431 Deej said:

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In comment 12800403 DanMetroMan said: Quote: Deej, he went from not even listed on DX to "the breakout star" of his league and is putting up historic numbers for his age. Who knows where he ends up being ranked but "becoming a big time prospect" is far from outrageous like you are making it sound. When someone says he might be a lottery guy, you start that discussion. Going from 60 to 25? Impressive leap.

All I'll say is with Europeans these draft mocks are often late to the party, with good reason. The exposure to these guys isn't as great, obviously, as the North American players.

of these KP articles really makes me realize how special Sampson was. He was a little before my time (his prime in particular) but every single KP piece that makes comps mentions Sampson.

In comment 12800409 DanMetroMan said:

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Simmons will be the best passing big in the NBA almost instantly. I can't think of anyone who surpasses him. His jumper is a concern of course but his passing is off the charts.

Yet another big time player that is showing how the NBA is transitioning into a positionless sport.

In comment 12800446 giantsfan44ab said:

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In comment 12800409 DanMetroMan said: Quote: Simmons will be the best passing big in the NBA almost instantly. I can't think of anyone who surpasses him. His jumper is a concern of course but his passing is off the charts. Yet another big time player that is showing how the NBA is transitioning into a positionless sport.

Good use of "big time".

#TrollingDan

averaging an impressive points or so and 11 rebounds, and about 2 1/2 assists and 1.8 blocks. Then he hit an injury wall and was never a significant factor again.

could almost see Simmons running some super sized PG but then you are wasting his rebounding ability. His shot is pretty ugly but then again I didn't see Anthony Davis learning to shoot so well

In comment 12800463 DanMetroMan said:

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could almost see Simmons running some super sized PG but then you are wasting his rebounding ability. His shot is pretty ugly but then again I didn't see Anthony Davis learning to shoot so well

I dont buy the "he'll learn to shoot" when reflexively splashed around wings. But for 4s? I totally buy it. He seems like his medium case bet is Blake, which is nuts (though Im not on board with the LeBron talk for upside -- LeBron's physicality is just bonkers).

we need a better SG and PG. AA is keeper as long as he isn't the best or second best guard on the team.

In comment 12800486 Deej said:

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In comment 12800463 DanMetroMan said: Quote: could almost see Simmons running some super sized PG but then you are wasting his rebounding ability. His shot is pretty ugly but then again I didn't see Anthony Davis learning to shoot so well I dont buy the "he'll learn to shoot" when reflexively splashed around wings. But for 4s? I totally buy it. He seems like his medium case bet is Blake, which is nuts (though Im not on board with the LeBron talk for upside -- LeBron's physicality is just bonkers).

I haven't seen Simmons shot, is it broken or does he not have the "touch"? The big thing with Davis's shot was that he would shoot with the ball in line with his face, which blocked his view. Now he shoots above his head. Davis I think was always a more natural shooter. Though I am not sure about Simmon's particular case.

Here is a DX video they released after the KP series on BS.
Ben Simmons - ( New Window )

will be the 1st pick and rightfully so, I don't think there's as big a gap between him and Ingram as people make it out to be. Ingram has elite scoring ability, I don't think he'll have much trouble scoring 20+ ppg in the prime of his career and good defensive potential as well.

I'd still probably take Simmons, but I wouldn't be shocked at all if Ingram went 1.

In comment 12800567 giantsfan44ab said:

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will be the 1st pick and rightfully so, I don't think there's as big a gap between him and Ingram as people make it out to be. Ingram has elite scoring ability, I don't think he'll have much trouble scoring 20+ ppg in the prime of his career and good defensive potential as well. I'd still probably take Simmons, but I wouldn't be shocked at all if Ingram went 1.

This debate is similar to the LeBron-Carmelo one back in 2002-2003.

In comment 12800370 Enzo said:

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in a heartbeat if I can get something decent in return for the future. We can always re-sign them in the offseason if Phil really wants them back.

I agree. The idea that AA (30 years old), Williams (low basketball IQ) or Thomas (lol) are "core" players is laughable.

Knicks have two core players: Porzingas and Melo. Everyone else is completely replaceable.

In comment 12800575 EricNY33 said:

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In comment 12800567 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: will be the 1st pick and rightfully so, I don't think there's as big a gap between him and Ingram as people make it out to be. Ingram has elite scoring ability, I don't think he'll have much trouble scoring 20+ ppg in the prime of his career and good defensive potential as well. I'd still probably take Simmons, but I wouldn't be shocked at all if Ingram went 1. This debate is similar to the LeBron-Carmelo one back in 2002-2003.

Hmm I don't think so if you are trying to say its one sided. I was very young then so I don't know how close of a debate that actually was but I think the consensus was in favor of Lebron. I don't think Simmons is anywhere near the prospect Lebron is. He is a poor man's Lebron, and I mean that weirdly in a positive way, as a poor version of Lebron would still be a dominant player.

He is very much behind where Lebron was at this point. He's athletic but Lebron brought athleticism to a whole new level, and Simmons isn't quite on that level. He pretty much has Lebron's game but is simply not as good in every facet. Defense, scoring, passing. Rebounding is probably the one area that BS will likely be better than Lebron.

Right now, Simmons game is mostly in transition. While he is the most elite passing big we've seen in a while, he's not quite the floor general that Lebron was and is. His game isn't quite as refined in the halfcourt. If I had to guess I think Simmons will operate in the post more than Lebron did. He has good touch and passes well out of the post.