Dwayne Allen

In comment 12800794 KWALL2 said:

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I don't see Allen as much of an upgrade. I'd rather stick with Tye and Donnell and see them use the cash on other positions. Or sign Jordan Cameron when Miami cuts him. This is a guy who would upgrade the position and help the offense.

Agreed. I would not give 3/11 to Allen.

But I like Will Tye's potential. He was really coming on at the end of the year.

In comment 12800829 JFIB said:

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But I like Will Tye's potential. He was really coming on at the end of the year.

I agree -- Will Tye really stepped up there in the last 4 games

That's an unrealistic view of how to move forward.

It's similar to the draft. Everyone here used to suck off the BPA theory. Now if someone suggests a WR/RB the immediate answer is WE NEED DEFENSE.

If Allen is a better player than a DT in free agency I'd rather sign Allen. Considering he's not going to break the bank and is an improvement over what we have (IMO) then I think he's a guy the Giants should take a look at.

The Giants need to sign players that make the team better. Not just position that in theory would make the team better.

For those who want to stand pat I understand your point of view but I dont think it should have to do with other needs.

In comment 12800833 Old Dirty Beckham said:

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That's an unrealistic view of how to move forward. It's similar to the draft. Everyone here used to suck off the BPA theory. Now if someone suggests a WR/RB the immediate answer is WE NEED DEFENSE. If Allen is a better player than a DT in free agency I'd rather sign Allen. Considering he's not going to break the bank and is an improvement over what we have (IMO) then I think he's a guy the Giants should take a look at. The Giants need to sign players that make the team better. Not just position that in theory would make the team better.

Even when healthy, he's a marginal improvement at best and he hasn't played 16 games since 2012. And even if you can get him for 3/$11, that's like 7-8 times more than Tye will cost. I'd rather use that $3M+ per season to upgrade another position.

His brain is already scrambled he's one hit away from retirement.

In comment 12800835 Old Dirty Beckham said:

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For those who want to stand pat I understand your point of view but I dont think it should have to do with other needs.

ODB - it has everything to do with other needs -- the cap makes it that there is a limited amount of resources to allocate -- so decisions have to, and will have to be made about which positions and players will be targeted.

TE has always been a low priority for this FO -- and the FO has made a lot of noise about improving the defense. There are so many things to do and the large cap space the Giants have is still limited

?

I get it. But i'm not going to say no to a player like Allen just because they may need another DT. To me it's all about value. The Giants simply need better players on the roster.

If he's better than a DT that's available I'd rather have him. If it were the other way around I'd rather have the DT.

Just think the Giants need to explore improving their roster in all facets. In my opinion he's a large upgrade over both Tye and Donnell. If eli can get 600 yards and 6 tds out of Donnell I think he can equal or better production from Allen with improved blocking.

Just one man's opinion.

Than overpay for past performance

In comment 12800856 jlukes said:

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?

You can't even compare the two players stat wise -- Bennett had much more production in his first 4 years than Allen -- even playing second fiddle to Witten. Allen's stats barely stand up to Will Tye's and he only played a quarter of the season

blocking TE in Dallas and his receiving numbers were "down" because of a HOF TE named Witten (plus Owens and later Dez on the outside). Who is preventing Allen from putting up better numbers?

In comment 12800867 gidiefor said:

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You can't even compare the two players stat wise -- Bennett had much more production in his first 4 years than Allen -- even playing second fiddle to Witten. Allen's stats barely stand up to Will Tye's and he only played a quarter of the season

That's not true. Bennett's receiving numbers in Dallas were awful. But he had a reputation as one of the top blocking TEs in the league.

In comment 12800787 stretch234 said:

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He does not do anything better than their current TE other than being a 3rd red pick

he is a much better blocker than anyone we have

MBennett 2008-2011
Games 60, Rec 85, Yds 846, Yds/G 30.1, TDs 4

DAllen 2011-2015
Games 43, Rec 91, Yd 1045, Yds/G 24.3, TDs 13

Gets more looks than you. Your not so great. Allen isn't a hidden gem. He had one good season and that's about his production. He isn't a stud nor is he anything more than a #2.

Give me tye after a year under his belt and flipper any day and twice on Sunday's

Tye will be the starter and Donnell will not be on the team. Donnell is a FA and not only hasn't shown improvement I think he clearly regressed last year. They won't resign him unless it's for vet min. Folks here are underestimating Tye who in 11 games put up pretty good numbers. He is another good street FA find at TE.

But Jerry seems determined to find a TE out of 6th round picks and undrafted free agents.

In comment 12800898 BillT said:

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Tye will be the starter and Donnell will not be on the team. Donnell is a FA and not only hasn't shown improvement I think he clearly regressed last year. They won't resign him unless it's for vet min. Folks here are underestimating Tye who in 11 games put up pretty good numbers. He is another good street FA find at TE.

Donnell is a Restricted Rights Free Agent -- so for all intensive purposes the Giants can sign him for a min salary

we'll see where the Giants tender him.

Bennett also received a 1 yr/$2.5M contract. That's a far cry from a 3 yr/$11M+ deal that Allen could command.

In comment 12800907 gidiefor said:

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In comment 12800898 BillT said: Quote: Tye will be the starter and Donnell will not be on the team. Donnell is a FA and not only hasn't shown improvement I think he clearly regressed last year. They won't resign him unless it's for vet min. Folks here are underestimating Tye who in 11 games put up pretty good numbers. He is another good street FA find at TE. Donnell is a Restricted Rights Free Agent -- so for all intensive purposes the Giants can sign him for a min salary

Tye is an exclusive rights FA. Donnell is a restricted FA so he could technically negotiate elsewhere. The Giants would then have the right to match (IIRC, they get 1 week from Donnell signing an offer) or choose to let him go. Depending on the tender Donnell gets, he could net the Giants a draft pick if he signs elsewhere.

has actually done a good job with low round and undrafted FA TEs. Boss, Ballard, Tye, and even Pascoe. No game breakers, but all decent players. LaCosse may have some upside as well. Reese has basically blown off most day three picks, but TE seems to be an exception.

$2.879M - 1st round tender
$2.023M - 2nd round tender
$1.323M - wherever the player was drafted (no pick in Donnell's case)

My guess is they tender LD at the lowest amount so if he signs an offer sheet, the Giants could either match or lose him for nothing (or work out other compensation).

is highly overrated on BBI. I don't see anything special there. Spend the FA dollars elsewhere.

Expecting to find guys year in and year out from that pool is arrogance

In comment 12800888 gidiefor said:

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MBennett 2008-2011 Games 60, Rec 85, Yds 846, Yds/G 30.1, TDs 4 DAllen 2011-2015 Games 43, Rec 91, Yd 1045, Yds/G 24.3, TDs 13

Exactly my point.

Away to retirement.

Cameron adds a Greg Olsen type element to the offense. After the year he had in Miami he won't be seeing a big deal. That 3/11 you're throwing around for Allen? Cameron is a much better option.

Giants would give him a great opportunity to see the targets he wants so I can see it happening.

that he is a good blocker.. Do we have an analyst or coach praising his blocking skills? is PFF giving him a stellar blocking score? Because we know his coach doesn't think highly enough of him to start.

He was stuck behind a top TE. Allen is a much shorter and much slower player. It isn't about the production. He isn't a pass catching threat and wouldn't help up any more than having Tye/Donnell.

There is no need to target average players now.

In comment 12800856 jlukes said:

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?

Bennett was never given an opportunity to start since you know he was behind a HoF TE... Allen hasn't been able to out produce Coby Fleener...

He has good size and from what I understand his strength is blocking

I like Allen or Gresham for a vet presence to go with Tye and LaCosse. That would be decent group of TE's

In comment 12800907 gidiefor said:

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In comment 12800898 BillT said: Quote: Tye will be the starter and Donnell will not be on the team. Donnell is a FA and not only hasn't shown improvement I think he clearly regressed last year. They won't resign him unless it's for vet min. Folks here are underestimating Tye who in 11 games put up pretty good numbers. He is another good street FA find at TE. Donnell is a Restricted Rights Free Agent -- so for all intensive purposes the Giants can sign him for a min salary

Good catch gidie. My bad. But I don't think it really changes much. So, he'll be in camp at a minimum salary but unless he shows some real improvement I don't think he's long for this team. Tye is already better and given he's not much of a blocker or STer is he who you want as the #2/3 TE?

In comment 12800965 chuckydee9 said:

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In comment 12800856 jlukes said: Quote: ? Bennett was never given an opportunity to start since you know he was behind a HoF TE... Allen hasn't been able to out produce Coby Fleener...

Function of Colts offense. Fleener is a Tight End that cant block and acts more like a WR. Allen is an all-around TE.

Allen was asked to stay in and block a ton more this year.

In comment 12800985 jlukes said:

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Function of Colts offense. Fleener is a Tight End that cant block and acts more like a WR. Allen is an all-around TE.

Ok that brings me back to the first question I asked.. Do we have any solid proof that he is a good blocker?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/15/dwayne-allen-to-play-13-pounds-lighter-this-season/

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With all of the talk of the Colts planning to evolve and play even more three- and four-wide sets, Allen’s role should remain unchanged with fellow tight end Coby Fleener being the one possibly losing snaps. Allen is a key asset for the Indianapolis offense due to his premier blocking skills as an inline player.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/indianapolis-colts-dwayne-allen-wasn-t-used-the-right-way-in-2015-011416

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“It was a long year, along with being used a ton in the pass-blocking game and being off the field on third down," Allen said. "That’s how crazy this year has been.

http://horseshoeheroes.com/2016/01/11/colts-dwayne-allen-on-upcoming-free-agency-i-plan-on-being-back/

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Utilized primarily as a blocker, Allen didn’t have the type of receiving production he would’ve hoped for. On the season, he had just 16 receptions for 109 receiving touchdowns and 1 receiving touchdown in 13 games. However, that was through no fault of Allen himself. The Colts offensive line collectively struggled, and Allen was called upon to block more than he was previously accustomed to. If the Colts can improve their offensive line this offseason, then there’s a better chance that Allen will be deployed more as a receiving option once again. Originally a 3rd round pick of the Colts in 2012 out of Clemson, Allen has emerged as one of the better young tight ends in football over the last four seasons with the team. Nevertheless, it’s unclear whether the Colts can afford both of their young and talented free agent tight ends in Allen, as well as Coby Fleener–who was a 2nd round pick of the team in the 2012 NFL Draft. If given the choice between the two, I’d lean towards Allen. While Allen has some durability concerns, he’s the Colts most complete tight end when healthy with his ability to both block and catch at a high level. Simply put, he gives this offense a dynamic option at its disposal compared to Fleener, who’s purely a pass catching tight end and conversely offers very little in the blocking department.

3/11 might be a little much but I wouldn't be too upset. I think they can get him for 3/9. What concerns me more is his injury history which is not good. I just don't see a lot of improvement on defense in FA. I'm hoping they can grab one of the couple safeties or DL available but that's probably it. Most of the defense will have to come from the draft. We can at least be glad the draft seems fairly defense heavy this year.

I can't believe how much people downplay the important of a 2 way TE. Saying Tye and/or Donnell are just as good is just wrong. Allen would be the immediate starter. The pass/run blocking of Tye and/or Donnell is non-existent. There's currently no money put into the TE position so I don't see how it hurts the team to add Allen. A blocker, receiver, and red zone threat.

I like Tye but I don't think his ceiling is much higher than we've already seen. If he can improve his blocking then maybe but he's got a ways to go.

In comment 12800823 Carl in CT said:

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2 DT, 3 DE, a Mike, a starting CB, two safeties and you want to upgrade a position where you had a player make NFL All Rookie. Give him time to develop and look at the other side of the ball. You need at least 55 million to be average.

Ridiculous...we don't need 3 DTs we have one great one and one pretty good one already. Same with CB and Collins is in the fold at safety.

You don't have to have good to great players at every position.

Need 2 DT's? (Why you said 3 who knows). We don't need a starting corner? We don't need 2 safeties? Yep we have Collins what do you want only 2 on the entire roster? Are you serious?

Who said that? We need numbers. We need good players to make the playoffs and compete.

Expensive target: Ledarius Green
Cheap Target: Andrew Quarless

In comment 12801119 Carl in CT said:

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Need 2 DT's? (Why you said 3 who knows). We don't need a starting corner? We don't need 2 safeties? Yep we have Collins what do you want only 2 on the entire roster? Are you serious?

Two DTs? I wouldn't say we NEED 2. I'd like to see someone to start next to Hankins, or at least a rotational guy. Nix and Hughes as backups.

That might be the reality of it.

So no, we only need one DT. 2 would be gravy.

Donnell and Tye are very similar types of player, except Tye doesn't trip as much. Any one else think so?

Tye actually reminded me more of Fells than Donnell. Donnell is just such a dopey player. Ideally we can upgrade the position and Tye will be the 2nd TE.

We need two.

Needs 22-30 new bodies on the final 53 for this year that's because with our injury history and lack of talent depth there are no sure bets going into the season. On this team today other than QB and RB if our projected starter is hurt there is no one ready to step in. We will not be able to fix all the problems in one year but we can improve the talent level on the team for sure. We just can't be foolish enough to think we are just a few players away from being a good team anymore.