Aired lastnight, would probably replay at some point this weekend I'd imagine.
thought there were cool parts, but a lot going on. I got the impression that the defensive players really disliked Ditka and only respected Buddy Ryan...and a lot of them still talk to and love the latter, who is in pretty poor condition these days. One of the storylines was Singletary going to visit him.
guys interviewed included: Singletary, Ditka, McMichael, Otis Wilson, Hampton, Fencik, McMahon.
they talked about Payton a lot of course and actually touched on some of the "post-career" stuff the NFL isn't too fond of. so again, there was a lot going on in 2 short hours.
there was about a 2-3min blip on the divisional playoff game and Landeta's drop etc. they had the clip that I could've sworn I'd heard before about Parcells saying if those teams played 10 times that year, the Bears win 9.
my question is about the '86 team: i was way too young to have any semblance of an opinion: we went 14-2 as did the Bears. i had recalled hearing - and was confirmed lastnight - that McMahon was taken out by a cheap shot late in the year. I do know Flutie played in the playoffs...but hadn't realized he was literally picked up off the street over the other 2 QBs they had (!)
1. who was the 1-seed: us or the Bears?
2. we steamrolled the Niners and Skins 66-3 on the way to XXI, while obviously the Bears believe that had they had McMahon they would've repeated. unbiasedly (as best as possible): who wins that game: 86 Bears or 86 Giants? hard for me to imagine given the scores of our games that anyone was beating NYG that January.
pretty crazy how that Bears team had just 1 title, 2 lost NFC title games, and then the '86 game with Flutie.
um...no one forced you to open?
1. We were the top seed, we were 14-2.
2. We played to start the 87 season and lost to them so bracketed around our championship season (which we didn't play them) we lost to them each time. The 86 team was very good and on a roll, it would probably have been a knock down drag out affair but to use Parcells's analogy, it might have been 6-4 out of 10 for us. Maybe.
My reason for saying this was that we didn't match up well with the 46 defense. Once the Bears peaked, Ryan went on to the Eagles and we had a real tough time with them. The Redskins offense matched up much better with that defense than us. We matched up very well playing the Redskins however.
Getting the 17 was tough, though.
The Redskin team we beat 3 times in 86 was more dangerous than the Bears.
Good 30 for 30 show.
Joe Montana could do nothing against the '86 Giants D in the playoffs but Doug Flute would have beaten them? My fat ass he would.
Mark Bavaro said it best: "I dreamed about murdering Buddy Ryan"
Another very well done 30 for 30.
The 1986 Bears defense was actually statistically better than the 1985 one, in points allowed. However, the Bears offense was trash. McMahon was taken out by Charles "too Mean" Martin, who literally slammed him to the ground after an interception vs. the Packers and he wrecked McMahon's shoulder.
Flutie was available after the USFL implosion and the Bears didn't like Fuller or Tomzack as their QBs. But by 1986, teams had figured out the 46 defense and they got matched up with a Redskins team that had WRs to burn them. Art Monk killed the Bears in the 2nd round and Flutie had one big play bomb but other than that was running for his life all game.
One of the biggest disappointments was the Bears didn't come to Giants Stadium for the NFC Championship. The Giants would have killed them and likely shut them out. Parcells said in 1985, the one time the Giants could have beaten them was that game they lost in the playoffs. In 1986, at that time the way the Giants were rolling, it was probably the exact opposite. The Bears would have had to have been lucky to beat the Giants at Giants Stadium.
The 1986 Bears defense was actually statistically better than the 1985 one, in points allowed. However, the Bears offense was trash. McMahon was taken out by Charles "too Mean" Martin, who literally slammed him to the ground after an interception vs. the Packers and he wrecked McMahon's shoulder.
Flutie was available after the USFL implosion and the Bears didn't like Fuller or Tomzack as their QBs. But by 1986, teams had figured out the 46 defense and they got matched up with a Redskins team that had WRs to burn them. Art Monk killed the Bears in the 2nd round and Flutie had one big play bomb but other than that was running for his life all game.
One of the biggest disappointments was the Bears didn't come to Giants Stadium for the NFC Championship. The Giants would have killed them and likely shut them out. Parcells said in 1985, the one time the Giants could have beaten them was that game they lost in the playoffs. In 1986, at that time the way the Giants were rolling, it was probably the exact opposite. The Bears would have had to have been lucky to beat the Giants at Giants Stadium.
Matt - I was in and out on the 30 for 30, but didn't they also lose Leslie Frazier, which kind of killed their D? I know people chalk it up to Ryan leaving, but I thought at the time losing Frazier was a big deal.
The 1986 Bears defense was actually statistically better than the 1985 one, in points allowed. However, the Bears offense was trash. McMahon was taken out by Charles "too Mean" Martin, who literally slammed him to the ground after an interception vs. the Packers and he wrecked McMahon's shoulder.
Flutie was available after the USFL implosion and the Bears didn't like Fuller or Tomzack as their QBs. But by 1986, teams had figured out the 46 defense and they got matched up with a Redskins team that had WRs to burn them. Art Monk killed the Bears in the 2nd round and Flutie had one big play bomb but other than that was running for his life all game.
One of the biggest disappointments was the Bears didn't come to Giants Stadium for the NFC Championship. The Giants would have killed them and likely shut them out. Parcells said in 1985, the one time the Giants could have beaten them was that game they lost in the playoffs. In 1986, at that time the way the Giants were rolling, it was probably the exact opposite. The Bears would have had to have been lucky to beat the Giants at Giants Stadium.
thanks for the insight. i had very little knowledge of the back story...since i was 4 at the time haha.
i had heard that stat about the bears 86 D being statistically better than the 85 version as well.
as many have echoed here - and maybe it was my own homerism - i just find it hard to believe that anyone was going to be beating a team that beat the "team of the decade" by a 46 spot, shutout a division rival, and then doubled up Elway in the super bowl.
There's just no way they come into a rocking Giants Stadium in January 1987 and beat a team that had just dissected Montana and the Niners, even if they had a healthy McMahon (which they didn't have anyway). It just wasn't going to happen. The Bears couldn't do anything but run the ball, and no one ran on that Giants defense.
Yeah blame the guy who made a thread and specifically titled it so anyone would know what he is talking about. Don't blame yourself for opening it and fully reading what was wrote, much easier to assign that blame to someone else
If you think the Patriots have gotten fat on a bad division for years. The Bears had cupcakes in Detroit (5-11), Green Bay (4-12) and Tampa Bay (2-14..worst record in the NFL). All of those teams had terrible offenses.
The only team that was somewhat of a challenge to them was the Vikings at 9-7, and the Bears blew them out 23-0 in Chicago only to lose 23-7 two weeks later in the Metrodome.
The rare time they faced a good team in 1986, they allowed some points- the Browns put up 31 on them in the opener. And then Washington dropped 27 on them to knock them out of the playoffs.
In 1985, they were a great defense, with a very good offense. In 1986, they were a good defense, who looked great because of competition. And their offense was bad and turnover filled. That they got their ass kicked at home by Washington was not a surprise. It was a disappointment because the Giants owed them a beating and they would have gotten it in the Meadowlands.
Nope, they were all the regular players. The strike started after Week 2, when the Giants dropped a game at home to Dallas to fall to 0-2. Week 3 was cancelled (which would have been the Dolphins first game at Joe Robbie Stadium, vs. the Giants). The scabs started up in week 4.
it was opening night with real players. "Toast" Patterson didn't play because he was hung over or something and they had nobody else. Bill was pissed
But I watched every game of the Bears and that '85 defense was, by far, the best defense I ever saw. When Richard Dent was on (like in the playoff debacle against us) he was unstoppable. Not quite as good in '86, but I was glad we didn't have to play them, we just did not match up well against that D.
But I watched every game of the Bears and that '85 defense was, by far, the best defense I ever saw. When Richard Dent was on (like in the playoff debacle against us) he was unstoppable. Not quite as good in '86, but I was glad we didn't have to play them, we just did not match up well against that D.
Can someone tell me why Singletary won DPOY in '85 over Dent? Whenever I've seen '85 Bears games, it's obvious that Richard Dent was the best player on the field imo.
Quote:
1987 loss was with SCABS! You can't count that if you think the Bears were better than us.
Nope, they were all the regular players. The strike started after Week 2, when the Giants dropped a game at home to Dallas to fall to 0-2. Week 3 was cancelled (which would have been the Dolphins first game at Joe Robbie Stadium, vs. the Giants). The scabs started up in week 4.
And without NFL Football in Week 3, CBS showed a replay of Super Bowl XXI, which I recorded on VHS. I watched the shit out of that tape.
As good as that Bears team was in 85, if they had played the Dolphins instead of the Patriots in the Super Bowl, I think they would've lost just as they did during the season. That MNF loss wasn't a fluke, the Dolphins passing game matched up well against a Bears defense that was built on stopping the run and rushing the passer. Marino's quick release was too much for them that day and there's no reason to believe it would've been any different on Super Bowl Sunday.