Let me preface this first with my personal bias. I tend to be liberal on many social issues. I sympathize with the struggles of minorities and do believe that the playing field is still slanted (although not nearly as much as it used to be) in favor of white hetero males in this country. I'm 43 and have worked in a steel foundry for 22yrs. Steel foundries aren't exactly the bastion of PC culture, so we accept a lot of non-PC behavior that wouldn't be allowed in most workplaces. Don't get me wrong- the same rules certainly apply to us, it's just that it's extremely rare for anyone to report.
So- over the years I've really noticed a rise in this idea that regardless of intent, if someone is offended, the "offender" is automatically in the wrong and must alter their speech/behavior to acomidate the offended party. To be fair, I encounter this most often reading on the Internet- but I have also encountered it more often in real life over the past few years.
It seems to me this is coming for the most part from the younger generation (millenials).
So- a few thoughts/questions that I'd like to get feedback on:
-Where does this idea come from?
-If the offending party is not attempting to be offensive, do they have a responsibility to change their behavior?
-Where is the line drawn? Obviously there's blatant offensive speech (nigger and the like), then ignorance/culture change (older folks referring to black folks as "colored"), but there's also purely innocent/socially acceptable by most (referring to black folks as "black).
-I this trend I'm seeing merely perception? Is it really just a vocal minority?
-What effect does it have on society overall, if any?
Your thoughts?
It is worse than just "the right to not be offended". Most of the time it is a race to be offended, so you can claim some moral high ground.
I do think common manners should apply, but I hate the use of the word 'wrong'. If my name is John - if someone calls me Johnny and I don't like it, it's as simple as 'I prefer John, please don't call me that'. I wasn't wronged, the person goofed and if he corrects it, there was no harm done.
Now, if I'm a Native American and someone says 'Hey, you Redskins tend to like those peace pipes, right?', now we're on to offensive territory.
No, but is it necessary to operate in extremes? Does everything have to be absolute?
If there weren't folks who who meant it and acted on it, the controversy of words would die down or never creep up in a social setting.
We've all seen plenty of social scenarios where the bar is high for acceptance and the inverse. In my experience it's less likely there is a whiney presence that causes a stink, and more often someone who's a real ass and is making people genuinely uncomfortable.
When you combine this ignorance of the basic premise of our democracy with the complete coddling that the last couple of generations have experienced ... no surprise. They all got participation trophies ... and now high schools can't even post class ranks because the kids who didn't work hard and finished at the bottom might get their feelings hurt.
They need to get their feelings hurt. We are not giving kids an accurate sense of what adulthood is all about. In our effort to protect them from damage we have forgotten our primary responsibility is to PREPARE them.
Thank god my old man was tough on us. And the world did NOT coddle us back in the day.
When you combine this ignorance of the basic premise of our democracy with the complete coddling that the last couple of generations have experienced ... no surprise. They all got participation trophies ... and now high schools can't even post class ranks because the kids who didn't work hard and finished at the bottom might get their feelings hurt.
They need to get their feelings hurt. We are not giving kids an accurate sense of what adulthood is all about. In our effort to protect them from damage we have forgotten our primary responsibility is to PREPARE them.
Thank god my old man was tough on us. And the world did NOT coddle us back in the day.
Good post. So many people fail to realize that free speech doesn't exist to protect the things we want to hear, it exists to protect the things we might not want to hear. Like my father has been saying since I was knee high: no one has ever been granted the "right" to go through life without being offended. And when so,etching does offend you, pay it no mind and go about your business. Now that isn't to say we shouldn't stand up and express our opinions over egregious, inflammatory comments or what the courts have labeled "fighting words", but it applies to the little comments people misinterpret and get riled up about seemingly every day.
This is what I tend to think-from where I am/where I work. Nice to see that East coast/white collar sees the same.
Can some please explain what this means?
Like the example of "black coffee".
I'm sure most of us will agree that the term isn't offensive.
On the other hand, can any of us really decide for someone else what is or isn't offensive?
Far too much push back against so-called "PC" (using "PC" as a shortcut, but Im not sure the term has meaning) right now IMO. Yes there are excesses, especially on college campuses. There is also a staggering amount of ignorance and demonization out there. The pushback against "PC" IMO is giving that talk more room to blossom, even as tolerance and empathy improve every day overall. Also reject the notion that its two sides of the same excess coin. Hateful speech is far more damaging.
I also do not agree with you about the scale being tilted in in the favor of a white man.
There are certain instances of racial profiling but for the most part black people have more rights then i do as a white male.
They also have it alot easier as well,being able to play the race card where ever and when ever they like,and most do when something doesn't go there way.
I know because i've heard and seen it on many occasions!!
It's 2016 people,and it's time to put the past where it belongs,in the past.
It's just an example.
I did have someone (white) get offended when I said, "black paint", though. We were painting a fence at the barn with my son, lesson kids, and some barn parents. It pissed me off, but since they are customers I relented and apologized and changed my wording to, "Cosmo (my son), please stop goofing off and paint like everyone else."
I also do not agree with you about the scale being tilted in in the favor of a white man.
There are certain instances of racial profiling but for the most part black people have more rights then i do as a white male.
They also have it alot easier as well,being able to play the race card where ever and when ever they like,and most do when something doesn't go there way.
I know because i've heard and seen it on many occasions!!
It's 2016 people,and it's time to put the past where it belongs,in the past.
Awww, poor whitey..
I thought his post was spot on.
Good thread BTW Can.
Conversely, as a white, hetero, male, I have zero right to be offended. If I were to say something to one of the younger female co-workers that was along the exact same lines as what they said to me, my manager would tell me to get over it. Where as if they told him I said something that offended them, I would be called into the office for a sit down.
That's another thing, the younger generation seems to have very little regard for what they say and do. It is fairly evident that these kids (I sound so old saying that) really operate as if the world revolves around them. Which ties into Cam's original point. Younger people these days seem to think that the world must change around them rather than later their perceptions. And I think in large because it is encouraged by much of today's society.
So people, we don't have to be an assholes all day long offending people. If we are, then we should be prepared to get an ass kicking.
What I despise is the idea of passing laws to protect people's feelings.
This has gone way beyond PC. We are at the point now where people get offended even when they are not part of the group where the offense is targeted. How many white middle class apologists claimed to be offended by the Washington Redskins? None of those people were offended until someone recently told them that they should be...and the person (or media) who told them also was not of American Indian descent.
What the Hell Does Politically Correct Mean? - ( New Window )
It's clear there has been great effort over the greater part of the last century to water down many of the most basic rights essential for a generally free society, as outlined under the first 10 amendments of the Bill of Rights. History of civilization tends to be cyclical in this matter. So I expect it to keep trending that way, as we have quite a ways to go.
Freedom of speech like others have said, is there to say the things that may be most vile to some. If you don't have the right to offend someone, then you are not free at all. I think the problem of most people in the younger generation and culture of wanting to ban speech, the whole "safe rooms" on campuses for "offensive language", etc. is a long term result of generating a society that isn't taught or encouraged to think for themselves, and use reason. Now you hear of these B.S "micro-aggressions", what a joke really. It stems from the notion that is being put in kids heads that everyone is a victim, deflect blame for everything that has ever happened to you in your life, it's not your fault; what a completely shit idea. If this trend is only going to continue to grow, I want to be as far removed away from it as possible.
It's clear there has been great effort over the greater part of the last century to water down many of the most basic rights essential for a generally free society, as outlined under the first 10 amendments of the Bill of Rights. History of civilization tends to be cyclical in this matter. So I expect it to keep trending that way, as we have quite a ways to go.
For example?
I feel that nuance is lost on most.
I think that the internet is the driving force to all this PC nonsense. I bet that if people left Facebook etc, they would be happier. All of the memes concerning race, welfare, politics, religion, and such must ake their toll on society.
Why do white Hispanics get added in? Well, two of the major Presidential candidates are White Hispanics, and I doubt that they consider themselves oppressed minorities.
As far as the march toward considering every act except breathing to be offensive, I think the Universities are more to blame than anything else. There are a lot of factors to the University role, but it is indeed unfortunate that a very large proportion of kids nowadays go to college to learn how to drink on the one hand and to be offended by anything harsher than "I like you" on the other. I think then only solution may be to spend more time drunk.
Link - ( New Window )
Did we start arressting people who like to say the N word? What's the incarceration rate on those who say all the vile shit?
The right is there. The Constitution never protected anyone from being called an asshole for their ignorant ass speech.
Hahahaha.
Anyway- during a Western Civ course over a decade ago, the instructor was off on a tangent about his pet peeve of people mispronouncing things. One of his many examples which he had written on the board was "Ku Klux Klan" being pronounced, "Klu Klux Klan".
A chick in the class was offended that he dare write it on the board and demanded he take it down. A ten minute argument about how words themselves don't hurt ensued until he finally relented.
So yes, I for one have experienced it many times in real life- not just on the interwebz tubes.
Quote:
saying black coffee. Is this really an issue? Or a one off criticism?
It's just an example.
I did have someone (white) get offended when I said, "black paint", though. We were painting a fence at the barn with my son, lesson kids, and some barn parents. It pissed me off, but since they are customers I relented and apologized and changed my wording to, "Cosmo (my son), please stop goofing off and paint like everyone else."
Is it though? Is there a widespread movement to change the name of black coffee? Any movement? Or is it either an apocryphal example OR a one-off of one idiot being an idiot?
This is just my opinion, but a lot of the current anti-PC sentiment seems to be driven by white victimhood. It's a recent development. You can see it in chillinman1183's post. I dont want to get political, but it's in a segment of our politics right now. It's especially prominent among men. Sommers & Norton's study showed that whites now view reverse-racism (ie. racism against whites) as a bigger societal problem than traditional racism (vs. non-whites). IMO the current backlash against "PC" (or tolerance in speech -- dont think there is a good term for it) comes from the same place. Yes, everyone can agree that there there are stupid examples of people being offended. Someone being offended by "black paint" is an idiot. But I honestly dont think that such outlier examples are driving the current national conversation.
Sommers - ( New Window )
well I agree with Tommy and you've offended me
Quote:
In comment 12803149 Deej said:
Quote:
saying black coffee. Is this really an issue? Or a one off criticism?
It's just an example.
I did have someone (white) get offended when I said, "black paint", though. We were painting a fence at the barn with my son, lesson kids, and some barn parents. It pissed me off, but since they are customers I relented and apologized and changed my wording to, "Cosmo (my son), please stop goofing off and paint like everyone else."
Is it though? Is there a widespread movement to change the name of black coffee? Any movement? Or is it either an apocryphal example OR a one-off of one idiot being an idiot?
This is just my opinion, but a lot of the current anti-PC sentiment seems to be driven by white victimhood. It's a recent development. You can see it in chillinman1183's post. I dont want to get political, but it's in a segment of our politics right now. It's especially prominent among men. Sommers & Norton's study showed that whites now view reverse-racism (ie. racism against whites) as a bigger societal problem than traditional racism (vs. non-whites). IMO the current backlash against "PC" (or tolerance in speech -- dont think there is a good term for it) comes from the same place. Yes, everyone can agree that there there are stupid examples of people being offended. Someone being offended by "black paint" is an idiot. But I honestly dont think that such outlier examples are driving the current national conversation. Sommers - ( New Window )
I am offended cause my white privilege allows me to get up at 4 am and earlier everyday to make a living to pay for all the Free shit of the other offended types... everyone should STFU and take care of themselves
PC is destroying EU right now, coming here soon...
Should be a barrel of fucking laughs to listen to them all.
save this post and lets talk in a couple years
Should be a barrel of fucking laughs to listen to them all.
I am offended by the almost 100 million not working and I am paying for it, as are you
Intelligence is usually a pre-req for climbing up the working ladder.