Just an awful awful basketball team, time to blow it up, see what you can get for melo and afflalo and start to build around porzingis...
Its going to be a long time before this team is going to be good again, no one is coming here to play in free agency
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In comment 12803984 Jon in NYC said:
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remarks in the pregame were embarrassing. I think it's becoming clear that he isn't fit to lead this team.
What did he say?
He doesn't care if they miss the plsyoffs
That's not what he said.
Rondo said he wasn't a good fit for the triangle, and Fisher took personal shots at Rondo for no reason. It was petty and childish.
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isn't whether we're contending next year or not. Frankly I'm not really bothered if we're not a title contender by the time Melo's in the final year of his contract.
I'm thinking about how good Porzingis can become in 3-4 years. I'm hoping Grant can start finishing and improves his jumpsuit. I hope Galloway can be resigned.
Title is the last thing I'm thinking about *right* now.
But that is my point how do you get to that status without blowing it up?
Your going to have to trade melo and tank next season
You could decide Melo's contract represents a good value for money and keep him for another year and then see whom you could trade him for. Trade Afflalo to a contender who wants a scorer for a good draft pick. Try and make wise moves in FA for guys who might be on the cusp of being high quality starters (see Crabbe).
This also isn't an awful basketball team. It's an average to below average team whose two stars are a bit tired partly because they're at different stages of their careers.
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In comment 12804002 Anakim said:
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In comment 12803984 Jon in NYC said:
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remarks in the pregame were embarrassing. I think it's becoming clear that he isn't fit to lead this team.
What did he say?
He doesn't care if they miss the plsyoffs
That's not what he said.
Rondo said he wasn't a good fit for the triangle, and Fisher took personal shots at Rondo for no reason. It was petty and childish.
He said the I don't care if they miss the playoffs after the Detroit game
Something like Winslow, Dragic, a couple firsts for Melo could make a lot of sense for both parties.
Something like Winslow, Dragic, a couple firsts for Melo could make a lot of sense for both parties.
There are probably 4 teams he would accept a trade to and the Knicks could possibly get a good deal...
Clippers, cavs, heat and possibly houston
How are Mark Jackson and Scott Brooks good coaching options? The Warriors got immediately better after Jackson left and the Thunder were winning in spite of Brooks, not because of him.
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out there. Thibs, Blatt, Luke Walton, Mark Jackson, Scott Brooks...
How are Mark Jackson and Scott Brooks good coaching options? The Warriors got immediately better after Jackson left and the Thunder were winning in spite of Brooks, not because of him.
Jackson's final two years were pretty damn good and Brooks has a .620 winning percentage. That's pretty damn good!
The team I look at in comparison is the Celtics. I look at that team and just don't see a team that is that much better than the Knicks. But they play hard, play the right way, and it's no secret that Brad Stevens has coach the shit out of a team with no superstar talent. Not even close.
I'm not going to put it all on Fisher but he is really uninspiring. Forget the "lack of talent" or the "holes" the Knicks have. Most teams have that to some extent. But his rotations, overuse of the entire bench, lack of creativity or running ANY plays whatsoever, weird comments, etc...just all makes me believe he is just a bad coach.
There are some real nice pieces on this team. Melo, KP, Galloway, Afflalo, Lopez, Williams, even Thomas to some extent. Their ability to be in many games until the end and just can't finish tells me that they are a poorly coached, underachieving team. Doesn't take a genius to see how undisciplined this team is.
LOL??
Yup, it's fun watching a team try to climb out of a big hole versus a team worse than them.
Funny how that works?
I wouldn't get used to it.
Whether they win or lose it doesn't change the fact this team is not making the playoffs and it may be best to try and trade melo
Well, for one, I'm able to see past the frustrating opening post from a huge Knicks fan without feeling the need to fan the flames with passive aggressive posts. But if that's your thing, hey, more power to you.
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The OP is ready to blow it all up after watching the team fall behind. And yeah, Denver has a worse record by like 2.5 games or some shit. In the WC.
Whether they win or lose it doesn't change the fact this team is not making the playoffs and it may be best to try and trade melo
You might be right about that but with no pick it's very risky. Unless they go into full tank mode, which I don't see happening in ny.
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The OP is ready to blow it all up after watching the team fall behind. And yeah, Denver has a worse record by like 2.5 games or some shit. In the WC.
Well, for one, I'm able to see past the frustrating opening post from a huge Knicks fan without feeling the need to fan the flames with passive aggressive posts. But if that's your thing, hey, more power to you.
Didn't realize there was such sensitivity here.
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In comment 12804051 B in ALB said:
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The OP is ready to blow it all up after watching the team fall behind. And yeah, Denver has a worse record by like 2.5 games or some shit. In the WC.
Well, for one, I'm able to see past the frustrating opening post from a huge Knicks fan without feeling the need to fan the flames with passive aggressive posts. But if that's your thing, hey, more power to you.
Didn't realize there was such sensitivity here.
Didn't realize there was such a need to get a rise out of internet strangers...weird.
Awwww. That's sweet.
And Mark Jackson and Scott Brooks? The Warriors immediately won the championship as soon as Jackson was replaced, and the Thunder have had 2 of the top 5 players in the league for years and underperformed consistently. That is pretty close to the definition of a coach holding back a team. And I'm also pretty sure Fisher's face doesn't resemble the top of a penis (literally).
The Knicks are still a player away from being a top 3 East team. Fisher still has a lot of in-game tactical stuff to learn. But Melo is having the best all-around season of his career, RoLo is finally looking comfortable on the team, and playing above and beyond what we expected on the offensive side.
The team is also not playing purely within the Triangle. They have incorporated some PnR stuff as well, despite not having a good PG for that. Grant is the only real option there, and his inability to find his jumper has hurt that as well. Assuming he actually gains some confidence and finds his stroke, he's a great fit for this team. He's accustomed to running the PnR and can get penetration, and he also has the size that they like for the Triangle backcourt. He obviously still needs to learn the offense a bit more as well as learn to trust his abilities.
Trading Melo makes little sense. His game isn't based on crazy athleticism, and he'll be a very useful player for a few more years. He's already taken on a facilitator type role, and trading him won't get anything valuable back. They should go all in on Batum in the offseason, and then see what moves they can make to try to add someone else in 2017 when there are more options available.
Also no one said trade melo just for the sake of trading him..
Also fisher is an awful coach, he is terrible out of timeouts, he has horrible rotations. , he doesn't know when to use timeouts, he just simply not a good coach
I really thought Sasha was gonna lead that comeback.
Including putting vujacic on the court with 4 minutes left
Mark Jackson and Scott Brooks is what you come back with as coaches holding back a team? Really? Because a championship is so easy to obtain? Mark Jackson was trending upwards as Curry was coming into his own. Was he really holding them back? Scott Brooks coached a damn good team while coming just short of winning it all. He was holding them back? I guess that means they will win it all this year too?
Then you go on to say that Melo is having his best all around season, Lopez is better than expected. Let's add the surprise of KP and the play of Galloway and Afflalo to the mix and you DON'T think that Fisher is holding them back?
Just not sure where you are going with this one.
I don't think anyone really expected too much from this season but they shouldn't be this bad.
Also no one said trade melo just for the sake of trading him..
Also fisher is an awful coach, he is terrible out of timeouts, he has horrible rotations. , he doesn't know when to use timeouts, he just simply not a good coach
From a starting 5 standpoint, absolutely. Putting Batum in Afflalo's place in the lineup is an upgrade across the board. Better scorer, rebounder, passer and defender.
It hurts the bench, yes. But you do have a good set of 3 players going forward, and the weaknesses of the bench can be mitigated by staggering lineups. Not to mention Porzingis will have a year under his belt to get bigger, become more aggressive on offense, and grow.
Surprised to see you lump Lance Thomas in there.
But also, none of those guys are key cogs that do something that's irreplaceable. This is the type of offseason where they need to find cheaper and/or younger role players to replace those guys. Committing higher money to guys like that is basically a first-class ticket to mediocrity.
Mark Jackson and Scott Brooks is what you come back with as coaches holding back a team? Really? Because a championship is so easy to obtain? Mark Jackson was trending upwards as Curry was coming into his own. Was he really holding them back? Scott Brooks coached a damn good team while coming just short of winning it all. He was holding them back? I guess that means they will win it all this year too?
Then you go on to say that Melo is having his best all around season, Lopez is better than expected. Let's add the surprise of KP and the play of Galloway and Afflalo to the mix and you DON'T think that Fisher is holding them back?
Just not sure where you are going with this one.
I don't think anyone really expected too much from this season but they shouldn't be this bad.
Absolutely. Curry's last 3 years have been extremely similar statistically. He is a fantastic piece to have, and to me, being a good coach means getting the best out of your team, and more out of those guys who aren't the bonafide stars. In my point of view, I don't think Jackson would have gotten what Kerr has gotten out of that team, both last year and this year.
The same can be said for Brooks. He had two phenomenal pieces, and went to the Finals once. Sure, he's had to deal with injuries along the way, but I don't think he has gotten the best out of the players outside of Durant and Westbrook.
The best example I could give you is Draymond Green. To me, the best coaches take those types of guys and is able to elevate their play to a level where they are playing well above their head. That's by understanding their strengths and putting them in positions to utilize those strengths.
I still think Derrick Fisher is learning certain tactical things about coaching a team, and I also believe he's still struggling to separate the player mindset from the coach mindset (use the entire bench vs. sticking with 9-10 guys). But I get encouraged by his natural coaching abilities when a career journeyman, Lance Thomas, becomes an integral bench piece. (This is assuming Fisher was behind Lance committing to improve his shooting ability) Derrick Williams is playing beyond what anyone thought he could do, and has at least shown some commitment to improving his defense. Robin Lopez is becoming a decent offensive piece in a tricky offensive system, after being an afterthought on that side of the court outside of running the PnR.
Melo is obviously struggling a bit with recovering from the injury. But as I said, with him in the lineup the team is playing .500 basketball. To me, that's pretty much the best case scenario for this particular team assuming no injuries.
I just do not see option 2 working as it is unlikely we sign a star this offseason and we currently have no assets to trade for a star. That means we are going to be mediocre for the next few years and quite possibly will be starting our rebuild in 3+ years which would suck. I say start the rebuild right now and get as many assets as you can for Melo and tank next year.
Bring in Walton in the offseason!
Take meeting in the offseason. Obviously if Durant or the next tier of FA are willing to come, great. Unlikely. Otherwise, try to figure out from meetings/agents whether you're really going to have a shot at guys like Westbrook, Durant, etc. the following offseason. My guess is that an honest assessment will show that we're not gonna get a great 2017 free agent. Melo will be a year older, and KP is 4-6 years from his prime.
My other guess is that Durant stays put and Melo, if available in trades, is the #1 or #2 actually obtainable piece this offseason. I'd rather have him than Horford. I think a lot of teams with perceived windows that cant out-wait the Warriors will be very interested in Melo. Miami, OKC, LAC, CHI... Knicks will be in a fine position to trade Melo then, if they want.
Bring in Walton in the offseason!
yep maybe he can bring Steph Curry and Draymond Green with him.
The key now is to get a real PG and replace Fisher. He is an absolutely terrible coach. If they don't get rid of him now, it doesn't matter who they have playing.
Why do you think Walton was winning?