NFT: Knicks vs nuggets: this team is no longer fun to watch

4th quarter

In comment 12804094 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:

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4th quarter

I really thought Sasha was gonna lead that comeback.

And played 12 guys tonight...

Including putting vujacic on the court with 4 minutes left

not sure where you are going with your post, but it seems like you are defending Fisher (which is fine)

Mark Jackson and Scott Brooks is what you come back with as coaches holding back a team? Really? Because a championship is so easy to obtain? Mark Jackson was trending upwards as Curry was coming into his own. Was he really holding them back? Scott Brooks coached a damn good team while coming just short of winning it all. He was holding them back? I guess that means they will win it all this year too?

Then you go on to say that Melo is having his best all around season, Lopez is better than expected. Let's add the surprise of KP and the play of Galloway and Afflalo to the mix and you DON'T think that Fisher is holding them back?

Just not sure where you are going with this one.

I don't think anyone really expected too much from this season but they shouldn't be this bad.

In comment 12804091 nygiants16 said:

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Is adding batum and losing afflalo Derrick Williams and lance Thomas really making this team better? Also no one said trade melo just for the sake of trading him.. Also fisher is an awful coach, he is terrible out of timeouts, he has horrible rotations. , he doesn't know when to use timeouts, he just simply not a good coach

From a starting 5 standpoint, absolutely. Putting Batum in Afflalo's place in the lineup is an upgrade across the board. Better scorer, rebounder, passer and defender.

It hurts the bench, yes. But you do have a good set of 3 players going forward, and the weaknesses of the bench can be mitigated by staggering lineups. Not to mention Porzingis will have a year under his belt to get bigger, become more aggressive on offense, and grow.

Surprised to see you lump Lance Thomas in there.

But also, none of those guys are key cogs that do something that's irreplaceable. This is the type of offseason where they need to find cheaper and/or younger role players to replace those guys. Committing higher money to guys like that is basically a first-class ticket to mediocrity.

especially if Derozan leaves. You'd have to put Charlotte ahead of us, too, given the money they can offer. We're probably no higher than third on his list. I fear it may be another summer picking from the bargain bins. Durant and Conley would require miracles.

In comment 12804100 PhiPsi125 said:

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not sure where you are going with your post, but it seems like you are defending Fisher (which is fine) Mark Jackson and Scott Brooks is what you come back with as coaches holding back a team? Really? Because a championship is so easy to obtain? Mark Jackson was trending upwards as Curry was coming into his own. Was he really holding them back? Scott Brooks coached a damn good team while coming just short of winning it all. He was holding them back? I guess that means they will win it all this year too? Then you go on to say that Melo is having his best all around season, Lopez is better than expected. Let's add the surprise of KP and the play of Galloway and Afflalo to the mix and you DON'T think that Fisher is holding them back? Just not sure where you are going with this one. I don't think anyone really expected too much from this season but they shouldn't be this bad.

Absolutely. Curry's last 3 years have been extremely similar statistically. He is a fantastic piece to have, and to me, being a good coach means getting the best out of your team, and more out of those guys who aren't the bonafide stars. In my point of view, I don't think Jackson would have gotten what Kerr has gotten out of that team, both last year and this year.

The same can be said for Brooks. He had two phenomenal pieces, and went to the Finals once. Sure, he's had to deal with injuries along the way, but I don't think he has gotten the best out of the players outside of Durant and Westbrook.

The best example I could give you is Draymond Green. To me, the best coaches take those types of guys and is able to elevate their play to a level where they are playing well above their head. That's by understanding their strengths and putting them in positions to utilize those strengths.

I still think Derrick Fisher is learning certain tactical things about coaching a team, and I also believe he's still struggling to separate the player mindset from the coach mindset (use the entire bench vs. sticking with 9-10 guys). But I get encouraged by his natural coaching abilities when a career journeyman, Lance Thomas, becomes an integral bench piece. (This is assuming Fisher was behind Lance committing to improve his shooting ability) Derrick Williams is playing beyond what anyone thought he could do, and has at least shown some commitment to improving his defense. Robin Lopez is becoming a decent offensive piece in a tricky offensive system, after being an afterthought on that side of the court outside of running the PnR.

Melo is obviously struggling a bit with recovering from the injury. But as I said, with him in the lineup the team is playing .500 basketball. To me, that's pretty much the best case scenario for this particular team assuming no injuries.

There are two routes to go. 1) trade Melo and tank next year and hope you get a top pick 3 to build with Porzingis, while also acquiring as many assets as you can in the trade 2) hang on to Melo and hope you can figure out a way to acquire a star in FA or trade in the next year.

I just do not see option 2 working as it is unlikely we sign a star this offseason and we currently have no assets to trade for a star. That means we are going to be mediocre for the next few years and quite possibly will be starting our rebuild in 3+ years which would suck. I say start the rebuild right now and get as many assets as you can for Melo and tank next year.

Youngest of all the candidates, has had tremendous success in his short time with the Warriors and a former Phil Jackson player.



Bring in Walton in the offseason!

There is going to come a time where the team is going to have to tank to get that second star, question is do you want to do it next year or 3 years from now

unless you get a stellar package in return (e.g. Blake or a guy worthy of a top 5 pick plus).

Take meeting in the offseason. Obviously if Durant or the next tier of FA are willing to come, great. Unlikely. Otherwise, try to figure out from meetings/agents whether you're really going to have a shot at guys like Westbrook, Durant, etc. the following offseason. My guess is that an honest assessment will show that we're not gonna get a great 2017 free agent. Melo will be a year older, and KP is 4-6 years from his prime.

My other guess is that Durant stays put and Melo, if available in trades, is the #1 or #2 actually obtainable piece this offseason. I'd rather have him than Horford. I think a lot of teams with perceived windows that cant out-wait the Warriors will be very interested in Melo. Miami, OKC, LAC, CHI... Knicks will be in a fine position to trade Melo then, if they want.

In comment 12804149 Anakim said:

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Youngest of all the candidates, has had tremendous success in his short time with the Warriors and a former Phil Jackson player. Bring in Walton in the offseason!

yep maybe he can bring Steph Curry and Draymond Green with him.

But, right now, they put together a much more talented team than the 2-3 years prior. This team, I believe, has enough talent to be better than being on the outside looking. They should be firmly entrenched somewhere in the 6-8 seed. Again, that is my opinion.

The key now is to get a real PG and replace Fisher. He is an absolutely terrible coach. If they don't get rid of him now, it doesn't matter who they have playing.

Only won because they had RW and KD.

Why do you think Walton was winning?