isn't going anywhere unless he wants to. He's got the no-trade clause. I am not against moving him but let's deal in reality. He's not moveable right now.
Everyone on this thread knows that Melo has a no trade clause. The notion that it's not dealing in reality to discuss trading him is belied by the fact that even national media have mentioned Melo trade scenarios (e.g. Lowe). Why is he unmovable? He can agree to a trade.
If you think Melo is not moveable, I think you're the one not dealing in reality. It's a downright silly statement IMO.
isn't going anywhere unless he wants to. He's got the no-trade clause. I am not against moving him but let's deal in reality. He's not moveable right now.
Everyone on this thread knows that Melo has a no trade clause. The notion that it's not dealing in reality to discuss trading him is belied by the fact that even national media have mentioned Melo trade scenarios (e.g. Lowe). Why is he unmovable? He can agree to a trade.
If you think Melo is not moveable, I think you're the one not dealing in reality. It's a downright silly statement IMO.
No. I should've clarified myself. I think he's not moveable because no team is going to want to absorb that salary with the issues surrounding his knee right now. That injury was clearly worse than the Knicks let on and it's becoming a problem.
put pretty heavy odds on Luke Walton being the next coach. Just makes too much sense.
I wonder if he is hesitant to take the Knicks job unless they get another star? He may see what fisher did and say ehh I'll stay with warriors until something better opens up
it's the normal post surgery recovery. I doubt teams would be scared off. Lets say he goes to the Cavs -- you just manage his minutes until you really need him. Which might be in the Finals. More likely is a trade in the offseason, when the knee should be even better (and the Knicks can have a non-awkward convo with Melo about direction).
In-season trade that makes the most sense to me is Melo to the Cavs, Love to a 3rd team, and 3rd team's assets back to the Knicks. If the Cavs are having second thoughts about Love.
I would assume the Lakers would be heavily interested in Walton
and he said Melo & KP, noting Melo's NTC in response to a related question. Dont see if he mentioned anyone else (Rolo, Grant, Galloway, Williams strike me as the other candidates).
to go with Fisher, then you have to accept that he was a first-year coach at any level last year in a throwaway season, and he's only halfway through this season with a very new roster learning a system many of them are not accustomed to.
Just as you live with a young player's growing pains, if you see potential you live with the same with a coach.
I wasn't a huge fan of the Fisher acquisition to begin with, but I think he deserved more time at the helm (even if I didn't love what I saw).
@TommyBeer
Stephen A Smith on SiriusXM: "I'm hearing Jim Buss is out. And Mitch Kupchak will likely follow. Jeanie is going to clean house..."
Quote:
@TommyBeer 7m7 minutes ago
Stephen A: "If (Jeanie Buss) does that, you know she's gonna bring Phil back. And I think Dolan will let him out of his deal to go to LA."
to go with Fisher, then you have to accept that he was a first-year coach at any level last year in a throwaway season, and he's only halfway through this season with a very new roster learning a system many of them are not accustomed to.
Just as you live with a young player's growing pains, if you see potential you live with the same with a coach.
I wasn't a huge fan of the Fisher acquisition to begin with, but I think he deserved more time at the helm (even if I didn't love what I saw).
I get that, but obviously Phil saw enough he didn't like to conclude that he made a mistake. Because Phil is basically admitting his own mistake, I think it must be the right decision - it's not like Phil is a hatchet man.
But we have Phil. So why not Phil and Thibs? Im not even sure I want Thibs.
In any event, our needs first and foremost related to roster composition and not coaching. At age 70, Phil really impressed me in taking KP. I think he thought KP was the best pick but agreed with the sentiment that he was years away (sometimes better to be lucky than right). He impressed me again today in saying the untouchables are KP and Melo because Melo has a NTC. Recognizing the world for what it is isnt always easy, but I think he gets it. I think Phil understands what a championship roster is and that the Knicks dont have the makings of one, barring a star UFA landing here (not going to happen).
Mills is not a basketball man. He's a business executive. And a long time Dolan employee. Too many red flags. I want him no where near the reins of power.
Howard Beck @HowardBeck 23m23 minutes ago
And a note on Luke Walton: Like Kerr two years ago, he'll have other, likely better options. Knicks might not be good enough to get him.
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Howard Beck @HowardBeck 25m25 minutes ago
Beyond the obvious candidates with PhilJax ties, I'm also told to keep an eye on Jeff Hornacek. Has rapport/respect w/Jax.
and he's turned out to be pretty good. Unlike Fisher, Walton at least has some coaching experience and a history with Phil. Thibs is obviously the best candidate, but I can't fathom that one.
@PhilJackson11 is a genius. David Adkins = next HC coach! http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24625105/wizards-hire-david-adkins-who-coached-kevin-durant-in-high-school #Durantula #Knicks
he basically said he'd consider trading everyone except KP. Melo is not being shopped but only because he had a NTC (I read that as an invitation to Melo to initiate convos re a trade, if he is willing).
IMO the title window is really KP's prime, 4-5 years away. However, there is a shot at it sooner if a big UFA comes in 2017. Here is how I'd set the table for that. Keep Melo, Rolo, KP, and probably Grant. Sit Melo, focus on developing KP and Grant the rest of the season. Trade everyone else for picks and/or young players; only hard decisions are Gallow and Williams, but I dont think you want to pay 8-12 million per to either. Getting some 1st to 3rd year guys who you think might blossom is important -- cant go all rookies.
So Galloway, Thomas, Calderon, Afflalo, Williams -- IMO should return real picks (at least some of them). Afflalo netted a #1 last season, and has been better this year. KJ McDaniels netted an early #2 + Canaan. Prigs netted Shved and 2 #2s. Maybe pack these guys together for a nice young player. OKC in particular could use several of them.
Put Grant in a gym all summer with a shooting coach and a S&T coach. None of this shit where it takes a guy 3-4 seasons to realize he should work hard over the summer. Sign guys to 1 year make goods this offseason (and maybe trade them at the deadline).
I think that KP and Grant going into year 3, Melo, Rolo, and maybe a flash from one of the picks/players we get in return COULD entice someone. Notably the first 4 are only committed 46.4 million. That would leave 62.6 million to play with. Maxes should be ~32 and 38 million in 2017. depending on service time. You could get a max and several good depth guys. You could trade Rolo and get 2 max players. It's the best path I see to contention in the pre-prime KP era. But here is the problem: in 2017-18 Melo will be 33. Here's the other problem: far from certain anyone will actually come. Current best UFAs for 2017 are Curry (not moving), Blake, Westbrook, Durant, Drummond, & Horford if they take 1+1s, CP3 (old). Ibaka, Lowry, Beal (2015rfa), Heyward are the next tier, and I dont see any of them being a #1-2 player on a title team. Link - ( New Window )
came alive during the 3rd, and only to finish with a whimper. Everybody was complaining about Fisher in my section, haha. Melo trying to play hero ball at the end really took the wind out of the crowd.
This roster might be bad, but even bad rosters can show improvement. The upside players weren't progressing, or even given a consistent opportunity, so Fisher had to go. The record doesn't really matter, it's the fact that at this point we still don't know who we have going into next year. Are we supposed to bring Calderon and Thomas back on bigger contracts, because that's all we know at this point? Should we make an effort to bring Williams back? Dunno. Is Grant someone to develop, or is he another Shane Larkin? Dunno. Is O'Quinn/Serpahin part of the team going forward? Dunno.
Williams, Galloway, Thomas. Three guys on short term cheap contracts that dont interfere with our ability to sign big money players. Next year each needs to be paid. Real money, real term. You sign too many of these guys and you have no chance at a max in 2017.
So do you (1) trade them now for cheap assets, (2) keep them and resign them, (3) keep them and let them walk. Obviously the question is individual to each guy. But my gut tells me you dont pay for depth before the core is in place.
Williams, Galloway, Thomas. Three guys on short term cheap contracts that dont interfere with our ability to sign big money players. Next year each needs to be paid. Real money, real term. You sign too many of these guys and you have no chance at a max in 2017.
So do you (1) trade them now for cheap assets, (2) keep them and resign them, (3) keep them and let them walk. Obviously the question is individual to each guy. But my gut tells me you dont pay for depth before the core is in place.
I keep Galloway and trade the others.
Nobody is going to trade a pick for Williams, he's so up and down,
a fact further embellished by his inconsistent playing time under Fisher.
Thomas was good for us, no doubt, but playing him so much meant squat. Generously speaking, we might have 2 more wins because of him. Is another team going to give us anything for him? Doubtful.
Friction with Phil? The recent shitty starts? Failure to develop certain players? Failure to get vets to do the right thing (e.g. AA's ball stopping, Calderon's KP freezeouts).
I suspect Phil was going batty with these shitty blowout starts. And the total ineptitude when Melo is out.
He mentioned communication and consensus a few times. I think Fisher may have become more of a dictator, not listening to the guys on the bench Phil brought in to assist him. I wonder if there was friction there which lead to his dismissal. Especially if they were talking about timeouts and rotations which Fisher clearly struggled with.
if you think they fired the coach because the team was doing badly you're just not getting it which...seems to happen sometimes. The Knicks haven't won a game without their best player. Best player by a large amount.
They see an opportunity to make a run and they see a guy they want out there. Or players went to Phil and said they can win but he is causing the losses. Which is pathetic. So I'm going to be optimistic and say there is a coach they want out there. Because if the idea is Fisher leaves and
suddenly Kurt Rambis is winning every game whether Melo plays or not, then that is a fucking stupid idea.
If they bring in Mark Jackson to do sermons and bless people I won't be thrilled. If they hire Luke Walton for proving he can drive a car on cruise control, I won't be thrilled. If they hire SHaw....i can't deal with that either.
Thibs or the dream that wont happen...Jeff. Van. Gundyyyyyy
Seth, that's bullshit and you know it. It's not about this year. Rambis probably won't do any better than Fisher. It's about next year and beyond. The team was going nowhere fast and looked horrible. It was only a matter of time before Phil got fed up by being down double-digits, only to come back and lose at the end with poor strategy and play.
There was no victory, but the surging Knicks (18-20), rallying from 12 points down early in the fourth quarter, earned lots of respect and Anthonys recent rep as a late-game distributor grew larger......Looking dead early in the fourth, the Knicks cut it to two points with 1:30 left on an Anthony fallaway and to one point with 50 seconds to go on a contested Afflalo 3-pointer straightaway. Afflalo, on the inbounds, found Porzingis for an alley-oop dunk to cut it to 100-99 with 32 seconds left, but the Knicks couldnt get the winning hoop.
I think we showed character as a team, Calderon said.
Not that it's anything new, but listening to Boomer and Carton and it's just embarrassing as hell. Knicks lost 9 of 10. Look awful now. Right before this streak which began on 1/22, they were 7-3 over 10 games.
It's the same routine over and over and over and over....The Knicks were not winning a title. They are way way better than last year. FIsher wasn't a long time coach and him leaving is not sad or a shame or anything. Lets move on. The people panicking and sounding alarms about Phil Jackson leavig and all this crap...its nonsense. Phil Jackson has dramatically improved the team and our position to become a good team.
Kurt Helin @basketballtalk 2m2 minutes ago
Report: Come 2017, Knicks have real shot to land Russell Westbrook
Report: Come 2017, Knicks have real shot to land Russell Westbrook
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By Kurt HelinFeb 9, 2016, 8:37 AM EST
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The summer of 2016 is all about Kevin Durant and we dont know what Durant is going to do as a free agent because Durant doesnt yet know what Durant is going to do as a free agent. Stay in Oklahoma City, bolt to the Bay Area or maybe Washington D.C.? These playoffs, meetings with teams and his advisors, plus personal factors all will play a role in Durants decision. Which he will get around to announcing in early July sometime.
But the sense around the league is that while Durant may very well stay in Oklahoma City, Russell Westbrook was drawn to the bright lights of big markets. If an elite player were to bolt OKC, this was the more likely guy. Westbrook is a free agent in 2017.
In an article about Phil Jackson and the Knicks in the wake of Derek Fishers firing, Adrian Wojnarowski of The Vertical at Yahoo Sports said the Knicks have a real shot at Westbrook in a couple of summers.
The Knicks have a real chance to sell Oklahoma Citys Russell Westbrook in 2017 New York and Porzingis have his attention, yes and Jackson ought to start constructing an elite coaching staff to begin that process with Westbrook and with free agents beyond him.
Come 2017, expect Westbrook to meet with a number of big market teams on both coasts, and then make a decision. The summer of 2017 is a couple of NBA lifetimes away, its impossible to say what Westbrook will do (he may well decide to stay in OKC if they win enough), but the big market teams looking for a star will get their turn in the batters box.
Which is why I still think Durant signs a 1+1 deal this summer to stay in Oklahoma City for another season hes going to give everything another chance to come together for the Thunder, then when the salary cap is at its peak in 2017 (an estimated $108 million) he makes his peak seasons decision. He and Westbrook and Serge Ibaka will all be free agents at the same time, and they can make their calls.
Everyone on this thread knows that Melo has a no trade clause. The notion that it's not dealing in reality to discuss trading him is belied by the fact that even national media have mentioned Melo trade scenarios (e.g. Lowe). Why is he unmovable? He can agree to a trade.
If you think Melo is not moveable, I think you're the one not dealing in reality. It's a downright silly statement IMO.
Quote:
Rambis probably won't do any better than Fisher.
Rambis at least has NBA head coach experience, which Fisher did not.
True, but his head coaching winning percentage is up there with Fisher's
Quote:
isn't going anywhere unless he wants to. He's got the no-trade clause. I am not against moving him but let's deal in reality. He's not moveable right now.
Everyone on this thread knows that Melo has a no trade clause. The notion that it's not dealing in reality to discuss trading him is belied by the fact that even national media have mentioned Melo trade scenarios (e.g. Lowe). Why is he unmovable? He can agree to a trade.
If you think Melo is not moveable, I think you're the one not dealing in reality. It's a downright silly statement IMO.
No. I should've clarified myself. I think he's not moveable because no team is going to want to absorb that salary with the issues surrounding his knee right now. That injury was clearly worse than the Knicks let on and it's becoming a problem.
Only to be stood up at the altar like his mentor did to us. Hah
I wonder if he is hesitant to take the Knicks job unless they get another star? He may see what fisher did and say ehh I'll stay with warriors until something better opens up
In-season trade that makes the most sense to me is Melo to the Cavs, Love to a 3rd team, and 3rd team's assets back to the Knicks. If the Cavs are having second thoughts about Love.
Nor can I. Just a guess, but I suspect the assistants' contracts prohibit it.
I saw the light about 2 weeks ago. Glad the KNicks did too. Now get a winner in here.
Just as you live with a young player's growing pains, if you see potential you live with the same with a coach.
I wasn't a huge fan of the Fisher acquisition to begin with, but I think he deserved more time at the helm (even if I didn't love what I saw).
j/k
Stephen A Smith on SiriusXM: "I'm hearing Jim Buss is out. And Mitch Kupchak will likely follow. Jeanie is going to clean house..."
Stephen A: "If (Jeanie Buss) does that, you know she's gonna bring Phil back. And I think Dolan will let him out of his deal to go to LA."
0% of Laker related Stephen A rumors come true.
Just as you live with a young player's growing pains, if you see potential you live with the same with a coach.
I wasn't a huge fan of the Fisher acquisition to begin with, but I think he deserved more time at the helm (even if I didn't love what I saw).
I get that, but obviously Phil saw enough he didn't like to conclude that he made a mistake. Because Phil is basically admitting his own mistake, I think it must be the right decision - it's not like Phil is a hatchet man.
Brandon Bass
Roy Hibbert
Robert Sacre
Nick Young
I mean, the list goes on and on (only if you want to include Marcelo Huertas).
In any event, our needs first and foremost related to roster composition and not coaching. At age 70, Phil really impressed me in taking KP. I think he thought KP was the best pick but agreed with the sentiment that he was years away (sometimes better to be lucky than right). He impressed me again today in saying the untouchables are KP and Melo because Melo has a NTC. Recognizing the world for what it is isnt always easy, but I think he gets it. I think Phil understands what a championship roster is and that the Knicks dont have the makings of one, barring a star UFA landing here (not going to happen).
Mills is not a basketball man. He's a business executive. And a long time Dolan employee. Too many red flags. I want him no where near the reins of power.
Howard Beck @HowardBeck 23m23 minutes ago
And a note on Luke Walton: Like Kerr two years ago, he'll have other, likely better options. Knicks might not be good enough to get him.
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Howard Beck @HowardBeck 25m25 minutes ago
Beyond the obvious candidates with PhilJax ties, I'm also told to keep an eye on Jeff Hornacek. Has rapport/respect w/Jax.
I like Thibs.
Link - ( New Window )
the fuck?
Quote:
about bringing back D'Antoni?
the fuck?
Joking....
Quote:
In comment 12806794 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
about bringing back D'Antoni?
the fuck?
Joking....
And Isiah Thomas
Q&A with Tim Cone - ( New Window )
IMO the title window is really KP's prime, 4-5 years away. However, there is a shot at it sooner if a big UFA comes in 2017. Here is how I'd set the table for that. Keep Melo, Rolo, KP, and probably Grant. Sit Melo, focus on developing KP and Grant the rest of the season. Trade everyone else for picks and/or young players; only hard decisions are Gallow and Williams, but I dont think you want to pay 8-12 million per to either. Getting some 1st to 3rd year guys who you think might blossom is important -- cant go all rookies.
So Galloway, Thomas, Calderon, Afflalo, Williams -- IMO should return real picks (at least some of them). Afflalo netted a #1 last season, and has been better this year. KJ McDaniels netted an early #2 + Canaan. Prigs netted Shved and 2 #2s. Maybe pack these guys together for a nice young player. OKC in particular could use several of them.
Put Grant in a gym all summer with a shooting coach and a S&T coach. None of this shit where it takes a guy 3-4 seasons to realize he should work hard over the summer. Sign guys to 1 year make goods this offseason (and maybe trade them at the deadline).
I think that KP and Grant going into year 3, Melo, Rolo, and maybe a flash from one of the picks/players we get in return COULD entice someone. Notably the first 4 are only committed 46.4 million. That would leave 62.6 million to play with. Maxes should be ~32 and 38 million in 2017. depending on service time. You could get a max and several good depth guys. You could trade Rolo and get 2 max players. It's the best path I see to contention in the pre-prime KP era. But here is the problem: in 2017-18 Melo will be 33. Here's the other problem: far from certain anyone will actually come. Current best UFAs for 2017 are Curry (not moving), Blake, Westbrook, Durant, Drummond, & Horford if they take 1+1s, CP3 (old). Ibaka, Lowry, Beal (2015rfa), Heyward are the next tier, and I dont see any of them being a #1-2 player on a title team.
Link - ( New Window )
This roster might be bad, but even bad rosters can show improvement. The upside players weren't progressing, or even given a consistent opportunity, so Fisher had to go. The record doesn't really matter, it's the fact that at this point we still don't know who we have going into next year. Are we supposed to bring Calderon and Thomas back on bigger contracts, because that's all we know at this point? Should we make an effort to bring Williams back? Dunno. Is Grant someone to develop, or is he another Shane Larkin? Dunno. Is O'Quinn/Serpahin part of the team going forward? Dunno.
I'll admit. I laughed.
So do you (1) trade them now for cheap assets, (2) keep them and resign them, (3) keep them and let them walk. Obviously the question is individual to each guy. But my gut tells me you dont pay for depth before the core is in place.
This is NYC for god's sake, why can't we have a basketball team that can compete.
Mr. Spock is upset again - ( New Window )
So do you (1) trade them now for cheap assets, (2) keep them and resign them, (3) keep them and let them walk. Obviously the question is individual to each guy. But my gut tells me you dont pay for depth before the core is in place.
I keep Galloway and trade the others.
Thomas was good for us, no doubt, but playing him so much meant squat. Generously speaking, we might have 2 more wins because of him. Is another team going to give us anything for him? Doubtful.
Friction with Phil? The recent shitty starts? Failure to develop certain players? Failure to get vets to do the right thing (e.g. AA's ball stopping, Calderon's KP freezeouts).
I suspect Phil was going batty with these shitty blowout starts. And the total ineptitude when Melo is out.
He mentioned communication and consensus a few times. I think Fisher may have become more of a dictator, not listening to the guys on the bench Phil brought in to assist him. I wonder if there was friction there which lead to his dismissal. Especially if they were talking about timeouts and rotations which Fisher clearly struggled with.
Quote:
if you think they fired the coach because the team was doing badly you're just not getting it which...seems to happen sometimes. The Knicks haven't won a game without their best player. Best player by a large amount.
They see an opportunity to make a run and they see a guy they want out there. Or players went to Phil and said they can win but he is causing the losses. Which is pathetic. So I'm going to be optimistic and say there is a coach they want out there. Because if the idea is Fisher leaves and
suddenly Kurt Rambis is winning every game whether Melo plays or not, then that is a fucking stupid idea.
If they bring in Mark Jackson to do sermons and bless people I won't be thrilled. If they hire Luke Walton for proving he can drive a car on cruise control, I won't be thrilled. If they hire SHaw....i can't deal with that either.
Thibs or the dream that wont happen...Jeff. Van. Gundyyyyyy
Seth, that's bullshit and you know it. It's not about this year. Rambis probably won't do any better than Fisher. It's about next year and beyond. The team was going nowhere fast and looked horrible. It was only a matter of time before Phil got fed up by being down double-digits, only to come back and lose at the end with poor strategy and play.
Dude...Look at this:
How long ago was this?
http://nypost.com/2016/01/08/are-knicks-playoff-contenders-win-over-spurs-would-help-case/
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/06/sports/basketball/new-york-knicks-atlanta-hawks-jose-calderon.html
http://nypost.com/2016/01/08/knicks-comes-oh-so-close-to-pulling-stunner-over-spurs/
I think we showed character as a team, Calderon said.
Not that it's anything new, but listening to Boomer and Carton and it's just embarrassing as hell. Knicks lost 9 of 10. Look awful now. Right before this streak which began on 1/22, they were 7-3 over 10 games.
It's the same routine over and over and over and over....The Knicks were not winning a title. They are way way better than last year. FIsher wasn't a long time coach and him leaving is not sad or a shame or anything. Lets move on. The people panicking and sounding alarms about Phil Jackson leavig and all this crap...its nonsense. Phil Jackson has dramatically improved the team and our position to become a good team.
Some people need to chill the F out.
Report: Come 2017, Knicks have real shot to land Russell Westbrook
Washington at home tonight, let's win.
Report: Come 2017, Knicks have real shot to land Russell Westbrook
Report: Come 2017, Knicks have real shot to land Russell Westbrook
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By Kurt HelinFeb 9, 2016, 8:37 AM EST
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The summer of 2016 is all about Kevin Durant and we dont know what Durant is going to do as a free agent because Durant doesnt yet know what Durant is going to do as a free agent. Stay in Oklahoma City, bolt to the Bay Area or maybe Washington D.C.? These playoffs, meetings with teams and his advisors, plus personal factors all will play a role in Durants decision. Which he will get around to announcing in early July sometime.
But the sense around the league is that while Durant may very well stay in Oklahoma City, Russell Westbrook was drawn to the bright lights of big markets. If an elite player were to bolt OKC, this was the more likely guy. Westbrook is a free agent in 2017.
In an article about Phil Jackson and the Knicks in the wake of Derek Fishers firing, Adrian Wojnarowski of The Vertical at Yahoo Sports said the Knicks have a real shot at Westbrook in a couple of summers.
The Knicks have a real chance to sell Oklahoma Citys Russell Westbrook in 2017 New York and Porzingis have his attention, yes and Jackson ought to start constructing an elite coaching staff to begin that process with Westbrook and with free agents beyond him.
Come 2017, expect Westbrook to meet with a number of big market teams on both coasts, and then make a decision. The summer of 2017 is a couple of NBA lifetimes away, its impossible to say what Westbrook will do (he may well decide to stay in OKC if they win enough), but the big market teams looking for a star will get their turn in the batters box.
Which is why I still think Durant signs a 1+1 deal this summer to stay in Oklahoma City for another season hes going to give everything another chance to come together for the Thunder, then when the salary cap is at its peak in 2017 (an estimated $108 million) he makes his peak seasons decision. He and Westbrook and Serge Ibaka will all be free agents at the same time, and they can make their calls.
And the Knicks could be involved in all of it.