Friction with Phil? The recent shitty starts? Failure to develop certain players? Failure to get vets to do the right thing (e.g. AA's ball stopping, Calderon's KP freezeouts).
I suspect Phil was going batty with these shitty blowout starts. And the total ineptitude when Melo is out.
He mentioned communication and consensus a few times. I think Fisher may have become more of a dictator, not listening to the guys on the bench Phil brought in to assist him. I wonder if there was friction there which lead to his dismissal. Especially if they were talking about timeouts and rotations which Fisher clearly struggled with.
Hahn said that Fisher pushed Phil's guys (Cleamons and Rambis) to the back row of the bench and had two of his handpicked assistants that followed him from OKC more prominently featured. May have been what he meant about "consensus".
Back in January, Jackson was supposedly pissed that he called a staff meeting and some coaches were not present. Those coaches were supposedly not informed of the staff meeting. Jackson expressed his displeasure to Fisher at that time.
I wonder if that's when the losing started, and if the locker room just unraveled because the coaching staff wasn't playing nice with one another.
deserves something of a mea culpa from some of you guys who acted as if his story that Fisher was on the hot seat could not possibly be true. Props to him.
deserves something of a mea culpa from some of you guys who acted as if his story that Fisher was on the hot seat could not possibly be true. Props to him.
I don't even remember what, if anything, I said about it at the time, but there wasn't even an actual "story" written was there? He mentioned it in passing on Lowe's podcast...which to me indicates that while he had heard things he wasn't confident enough to write about it.
Hahn said that Fisher pushed Phil's guys (Cleamons and Rambis) to the back row of the bench and had two of his handpicked assistants that followed him from OKC more prominently featured. May have been what he meant about "consensus".
Hahn, via twitter during games, questioned various coaching decisions by Fisher NUMEROUS times. For a guy paid by MSG, I always found that very interesting. I could be simply forgetting, but I don't recall him doing that with any of the previous coaches.
deserves something of a mea culpa from some of you guys who acted as if his story that Fisher was on the hot seat could not possibly be true. Props to him.
I don't even remember what, if anything, I said about it at the time, but there wasn't even an actual "story" written was there? He mentioned it in passing on Lowe's podcast...which to me indicates that while he had heard things he wasn't confident enough to write about it.
1/16-
Windhorst:
Im going to wave a yellow flag on Derek Fisher, as well.
Just hearing some rumbling that there isnt a lot of its not all rainbows and lollypops there. Just a yellow flag, not a red flag.
and a few people said he doesn't know anything and is just a Lebron fanboy. Maybe he got lucky but he nailed it.
and a few people said he doesn't know anything and is just a Lebron fanboy
he does have some sources (every real reporter that covers the league has at least a few or else they're not doing their job) but he's also a lousy analyst/LeBron fanboy.
Stefan Bondy @SBondyNYDN 1m1 minute ago
When Phil Jackson says yesterday that the Knicks don't have desirable assets he's basically trashing the job he did over he summer.
I questioned if anyone really knows what Phil is thinking, and I stand by it. Fisher wasnt fired then, he was fired nearly a month later after a 1-9 stretch. Big difference. Link - ( New Window )
I guess he could be interested in NY as a market, and he gets what KP could be (but really, can KP be better than Durant? Cant believe RW is thinking that).
But how serious could the interest be? No idea who the coach is. No idea whether Melo will be there. No idea what year 2 of KP will be. I guess this is better than RW isnt interested, but it's got to be very tenuous interest at this point. However, after Curry (who isnt going anywhere IMO), Westbrook is the best 2017 FA. I think it is Curry, Westbrook, Durant, Blake, Paul (age 32.5 to start 2017.)
I questioned if anyone really knows what Phil is thinking, and I stand by it. Fisher wasnt fired then, he was fired nearly a month later after a 1-9 stretch. Big difference. Link - ( New Window )
Personally I don't believe the 1-9 is why Fisher was fired. I believe "other stuff" was why he was fired. Rotations, off the court stuff, communications. I think the Knicks could have gone 1-9 and Fisher could have kept his job. Phil pretty clearly had other reasons beyond simply a brutal 10 game stretch.
comments were pretty revealing yesterday. Phil wanted a disciple and Fisher didn't play the part. If he was winning Phil likely lives with it, but the losing, questionable coaching decisions, and the Barnes nonsense all added up was simply too much IMO.
Stefan Bondy @SBondyNYDN 1m1 minute ago
When Phil Jackson says yesterday that the Knicks don't have desirable assets he's basically trashing the job he did over he summer.
Not an unreasonable comment, but what I think Phil really meant was that he doesnt have desirable assets to trade for a star. I dont think he meant that he cant give away Rolo, Grant, Williams, Thomas, and Afflalo.
Also, everyone needs to remember that you cant force players to come here. Aldridge went to the Spurs -- cant compete with that. Jordan and Gasol resigned. Monroe bypassed us and ruined the Bucks; Im happier with Rolo. Putting aside Aldridge and Monroe, I dont know that Im happier getting any of the other big ticket UFAs who actually moved. Ellis, Carroll, West, Rondo, TC. Everyone else has proved a decent to good value.
I questioned if anyone really knows what Phil is thinking, and I stand by it. Fisher wasnt fired then, he was fired nearly a month later after a 1-9 stretch. Big difference. Link - ( New Window )
Personally I don't believe the 1-9 is why Fisher was fired. I believe "other stuff" was why he was fired. Rotations, off the court stuff, communications. I think the Knicks could have gone 1-9 and Fisher could have kept his job. Phil pretty clearly had other reasons beyond simply a brutal 10 game stretch.
I dont think at that point in mid January that there was a chance in hell Fish could have been fired. We had just come off an amazing 5-6 game run.
looking for the next coach will tell us a lot. If they simply hand the job to a guy like Shaw (or some other random triangle guy) it's not going to be a good look for Phil. A true search with legit interviews that includes guys like Blatt, Thibs, or an outside the box candidate like Smart will at least indicate Phil has the team operating like a normal franchise.
Nonsense. It would be "embarrassing" if he left for the Nets or some other crap franchise. Losing a 70-year-old exec/figurehead to a franchise where his ties greatly outnumber his ties to NY wouldn't even make the top 20 list of embarrassing things the Knicks have endured over the years.
and, honestly, how much of this is actually from Phil?
As opposed to Jeannie Buss stating her desires out loud? I mean, if returning to run the Lakers was that irresistible, why take the Knicks job at all? Why not just wait a few years for Jim Buss' ineptitude to create an opening?
The same two people who said melo wanted out and was pissed off AAT Phil Jackson...
And when stephen a said this he basically made it sound like it was his opinion that Phil would go back to LA...
Isola just hates the Knicks and whenever something bad happens he piles on...
Notice he has been quiet about Monroe, he was so wrong about Monroe coming here that since Phil didn't sign him he rips him because it made him look bad to be so wrong...
Neither do these guys have sources close to Jackson...
As opposed to Jeannie Buss stating her desires out loud? I mean, if returning to run the Lakers was that irresistible, why take the Knicks job at all?
in no particular order, his ego, the Dolan cash, and his history as a Knick. Now that he got it out of his system, wouldn't shock me if he decides to head home. He can always play the "Dolan card" about why things may not have worked out.
guys would actually be surprised if within his negotiations with Dolan, Phil had language put in there that he could leave here (with no compensation to LA) if he wanted to go back to LA? Dolan was desperate to land Phil. I would be 0% surprised. 0.
Stephen a will claim it was his opinion like he did with his melo story...
Isola will either ignore it and act like he never said that or he will claim Dolan is forcing Phil to stay and making him honor his contract and that Dolan is now running the team with isaih and Phil is home doing nothing..
but it's not something I'm worrying about right now. If Phil leaves 2 years from now having left a roster with a decent amount of talent and some picks and KP has progressed into a two-way franchise player, then I'm not going to wring my hands. A talented GM could step right in and make the final moves to turn this team into a serious contender. The worry, and it's a legitimate one unfortunately, is that the GM Dolan would pick in that situation would be a crony or a talent of the Scott Layden/Isaiah Thomas rank.
guys would actually be surprised if within his negotiations with Dolan, Phil had language put in there that he could leave here (with no compensation to LA) if he wanted to go back to LA? Dolan was desperate to land Phil. I would be 0% surprised. 0.
Not surprised, just disgusted that Dolan would be dumb enough to give it to him.
but I don't think he'd risk his job by making that up. He doesn't have anything to gain by including that in his story. I do think it's curious that this is the first we're hearing about it.
guys would actually be surprised if within his negotiations with Dolan, Phil had language put in there that he could leave here (with no compensation to LA) if he wanted to go back to LA? Dolan was desperate to land Phil. I would be 0% surprised. 0.
The way it happened yes I would be surprised...
Dolan and Phil met numerous times before the deal was done and Dolan said he would not have hired Phil if his heart was not in it or wanted to leave after a couple of years...
People may think Dolan is a dumbass but I don't think he is completely incompetent to put that in Phil's contract...
Now it might say if Dolan interferes then Phil can leave or something of that nature
but I don't think he'd risk his job by making that up. He doesn't have anything to gain by including that in his story. I do think it's curious that this is the first we're hearing about it.
Have you ever read an isola article? He doesn't give a shit about his credibility and the daily news hates Dolan, why do you think isola still has a job?
When isiah was hired to run the liberty he claimed Dolan did it behind Phil's back and that Phil was pissed and ready to leave, he also claimed isiah was really running the Knicks behind the scenes...
The worry, and it's a legitimate one unfortunately, is that the GM Dolan would pick in that situation would be a crony or a talent of the Scott Layden/Isaiah Thomas rank.
at no time since he's owned the team has there been a normal interview process for a GM. Based on this history, I don't see any way he implements a process where they're interviewing young candidates from successful front offices or trying to lure away a guy like Buford or whatever.
And don't forget Mills in all his. There's no way he'd advocate for the above scenario because every single guy they'd talk to would have zero use for him.
but I don't think he'd risk his job by making that up. He doesn't have anything to gain by including that in his story. I do think it's curious that this is the first we're hearing about it.
Have you ever read an isola article? He doesn't give a shit about his credibility and the daily news hates Dolan, why do you think isola still has a job?
When isiah was hired to run the liberty he claimed Dolan did it behind Phil's back and that Phil was pissed and ready to leave, he also claimed isiah was really running the Knicks behind the scenes...
reporting rumors like the above vs. making up something like a contract clause that can easily be proved one way or the other are two different things.
The worry, and it's a legitimate one unfortunately, is that the GM Dolan would pick in that situation would be a crony or a talent of the Scott Layden/Isaiah Thomas rank.
at no time since he's owned the team has there been a normal interview process for a GM. Based on this history, I don't see any way he implements a process where they're interviewing young candidates from successful front offices or trying to lure away a guy like Buford or whatever.
And don't forget Mills in all his. There's no way he'd advocate for the above scenario because every single guy they'd talk to would have zero use for him.
It's a terrible thing to say, but I'll go ahead and say it anyway. If Jim Dolan were to die tomorrow, there would be a parade the following day.
It took a man with the historical stature of Red Auerbach to finally rebuild under Dolan. That's preposterous.
RE: RE: They'll never be able to shake the embarassment of Phil bolting for LA
Nonsense. It would be "embarrassing" if he left for the Nets or some other crap franchise. Losing a 70-year-old exec/figurehead to a franchise where his ties greatly outnumber his ties to NY wouldn't even make the top 20 list of embarrassing things the Knicks have endured over the years.
We'll agree to disagree then, because I remember what he said when he got here, which was that he wanted to leave the team with a foundation and a culture to build on.
That's certainly not done. They begged him to come here, paid him $60m on top of that, and that's still not enough to make the job desirable? It's absolutely embarrassing.
Russell is less of a sure think than KP is to be a franchise player, I think everyone would have to agree at this point. Nance looks fine but more of a bench guy. Randle who knows -- could be an old school points-rebounds-nothing else big in a new school world. Clarkson is getting paid this summer and the advanced stats on him are mixed at best. Philly owns their #1 (1-3, 1-3, unprotected next 3 drafts) and Orlando owns their #1 two drafts thereafter.
I know it is LA. I recognize that the Lakers have more cachet than the Knicks. But the LA cupboard has never been this bare in my lifetime. Shit, in my life they had only missed the playoffs twice until this current run, and those were mid-low 30s win teams. Current Lakers are on pace for 17 wins.
This is the same guy who said the Knicks interviewed Phil to be head coach and were laughed at, same guy who said he laughed at mills and didn't want him there and that is why Phil was not coming, oh yeah 2 days later he was named president...
All he has to do is write an article that Phil opted into his contract and will remain president, how will anyone know?/Knicks are not going to announce it
if the Lakers get lucky in this draft and have Russell + Simmons/Ingram, that's a core. Or if Bender, Dunn, Brown etc -- whoever they get -- really flashes, Phil could bolt during summer 2017.
Russell is less of a sure think than KP is to be a franchise player, I think everyone would have to agree at this point. Nance looks fine but more of a bench guy. Randle who knows -- could be an old school points-rebounds-nothing else big in a new school world. Clarkson is getting paid this summer and the advanced stats on him are mixed at best. Philly owns their #1 (1-3, 1-3, unprotected next 3 drafts) and Orlando owns their #1 two drafts thereafter.
I know it is LA. I recognize that the Lakers have more cachet than the Knicks. But the LA cupboard has never been this bare in my lifetime. Shit, in my life they had only missed the playoffs twice until this current run, and those were mid-low 30s win teams. Current Lakers are on pace for 17 wins.
I just hope they don't get a shot at Ingram or Simmons. I hate that franchise. I hate their bandwagon fans.
Quote:
I assume Phil will spout zen nonsense.
Friction with Phil? The recent shitty starts? Failure to develop certain players? Failure to get vets to do the right thing (e.g. AA's ball stopping, Calderon's KP freezeouts).
I suspect Phil was going batty with these shitty blowout starts. And the total ineptitude when Melo is out.
He mentioned communication and consensus a few times. I think Fisher may have become more of a dictator, not listening to the guys on the bench Phil brought in to assist him. I wonder if there was friction there which lead to his dismissal. Especially if they were talking about timeouts and rotations which Fisher clearly struggled with.
Hahn said that Fisher pushed Phil's guys (Cleamons and Rambis) to the back row of the bench and had two of his handpicked assistants that followed him from OKC more prominently featured. May have been what he meant about "consensus".
I wonder if that's when the losing started, and if the locker room just unraveled because the coaching staff wasn't playing nice with one another.
Could see him experimenting with seraphim O'Quinn Williams Thomas galloway
I don't even remember what, if anything, I said about it at the time, but there wasn't even an actual "story" written was there? He mentioned it in passing on Lowe's podcast...which to me indicates that while he had heard things he wasn't confident enough to write about it.
#Knicks did not re-sign Thanasis Antetokounmpo to a second 10-day contract. Is not with team
Hahn, via twitter during games, questioned various coaching decisions by Fisher NUMEROUS times. For a guy paid by MSG, I always found that very interesting. I could be simply forgetting, but I don't recall him doing that with any of the previous coaches.
Quote:
deserves something of a mea culpa from some of you guys who acted as if his story that Fisher was on the hot seat could not possibly be true. Props to him.
I don't even remember what, if anything, I said about it at the time, but there wasn't even an actual "story" written was there? He mentioned it in passing on Lowe's podcast...which to me indicates that while he had heard things he wasn't confident enough to write about it.
1/16-
Windhorst:
Im going to wave a yellow flag on Derek Fisher, as well.
Just hearing some rumbling that there isnt a lot of its not all rainbows and lollypops there. Just a yellow flag, not a red flag.
and a few people said he doesn't know anything and is just a Lebron fanboy. Maybe he got lucky but he nailed it.
he does have some sources (every real reporter that covers the league has at least a few or else they're not doing their job) but he's also a lousy analyst/LeBron fanboy.
When Phil Jackson says yesterday that the Knicks don't have desirable assets he's basically trashing the job he did over he summer.
Link - ( New Window )
Report: Come 2017, Knicks have real shot to land Russell Westbrook
My favorite non-Knick player outside of LeBron. Unlikely but few things would make me happier than seeing RW as a Knick.
But how serious could the interest be? No idea who the coach is. No idea whether Melo will be there. No idea what year 2 of KP will be. I guess this is better than RW isnt interested, but it's got to be very tenuous interest at this point. However, after Curry (who isnt going anywhere IMO), Westbrook is the best 2017 FA. I think it is Curry, Westbrook, Durant, Blake, Paul (age 32.5 to start 2017.)
Personally I don't believe the 1-9 is why Fisher was fired. I believe "other stuff" was why he was fired. Rotations, off the court stuff, communications. I think the Knicks could have gone 1-9 and Fisher could have kept his job. Phil pretty clearly had other reasons beyond simply a brutal 10 game stretch.
When Phil Jackson says yesterday that the Knicks don't have desirable assets he's basically trashing the job he did over he summer.
Not an unreasonable comment, but what I think Phil really meant was that he doesnt have desirable assets to trade for a star. I dont think he meant that he cant give away Rolo, Grant, Williams, Thomas, and Afflalo.
Also, everyone needs to remember that you cant force players to come here. Aldridge went to the Spurs -- cant compete with that. Jordan and Gasol resigned. Monroe bypassed us and ruined the Bucks; Im happier with Rolo. Putting aside Aldridge and Monroe, I dont know that Im happier getting any of the other big ticket UFAs who actually moved. Ellis, Carroll, West, Rondo, TC. Everyone else has proved a decent to good value.
Quote:
I questioned if anyone really knows what Phil is thinking, and I stand by it. Fisher wasnt fired then, he was fired nearly a month later after a 1-9 stretch. Big difference. Link - ( New Window )
Personally I don't believe the 1-9 is why Fisher was fired. I believe "other stuff" was why he was fired. Rotations, off the court stuff, communications. I think the Knicks could have gone 1-9 and Fisher could have kept his job. Phil pretty clearly had other reasons beyond simply a brutal 10 game stretch.
I dont think at that point in mid January that there was a chance in hell Fish could have been fired. We had just come off an amazing 5-6 game run.
There is reportedly a 'strong belief' Phil Jackson will eventually return to Lakers
If it did happen, though, they had better put the Lakers' balls in a vise in exchange for letting him go. Two first round picks, something like that.
Compensation would ease my pain
Nonsense. It would be "embarrassing" if he left for the Nets or some other crap franchise. Losing a 70-year-old exec/figurehead to a franchise where his ties greatly outnumber his ties to NY wouldn't even make the top 20 list of embarrassing things the Knicks have endured over the years.
And when stephen a said this he basically made it sound like it was his opinion that Phil would go back to LA...
Isola just hates the Knicks and whenever something bad happens he piles on...
Notice he has been quiet about Monroe, he was so wrong about Monroe coming here that since Phil didn't sign him he rips him because it made him look bad to be so wrong...
Neither do these guys have sources close to Jackson...
per Isola, he has an out after this season.
Link - ( New Window )
Then Dolan is indeed every bit as fucking stupid as I always suspected he was.
in no particular order, his ego, the Dolan cash, and his history as a Knick. Now that he got it out of his system, wouldn't shock me if he decides to head home. He can always play the "Dolan card" about why things may not have worked out.
Quote:
shock me if Phil has an out in his contract in regard to the Lakers
per Isola, he has an out after this season. Link - ( New Window )
Isola has no idea how Phil Jacksons contract is structured...
Do you remember how badly he butchered the Phil Jackson to Knicks story
Isola will either ignore it and act like he never said that or he will claim Dolan is forcing Phil to stay and making him honor his contract and that Dolan is now running the team with isaih and Phil is home doing nothing..
Not surprised, just disgusted that Dolan would be dumb enough to give it to him.
The way it happened yes I would be surprised...
Dolan and Phil met numerous times before the deal was done and Dolan said he would not have hired Phil if his heart was not in it or wanted to leave after a couple of years...
People may think Dolan is a dumbass but I don't think he is completely incompetent to put that in Phil's contract...
Now it might say if Dolan interferes then Phil can leave or something of that nature
Have you ever read an isola article? He doesn't give a shit about his credibility and the daily news hates Dolan, why do you think isola still has a job?
When isiah was hired to run the liberty he claimed Dolan did it behind Phil's back and that Phil was pissed and ready to leave, he also claimed isiah was really running the Knicks behind the scenes...
at no time since he's owned the team has there been a normal interview process for a GM. Based on this history, I don't see any way he implements a process where they're interviewing young candidates from successful front offices or trying to lure away a guy like Buford or whatever.
And don't forget Mills in all his. There's no way he'd advocate for the above scenario because every single guy they'd talk to would have zero use for him.
Quote:
but I don't think he'd risk his job by making that up. He doesn't have anything to gain by including that in his story. I do think it's curious that this is the first we're hearing about it.
Have you ever read an isola article? He doesn't give a shit about his credibility and the daily news hates Dolan, why do you think isola still has a job?
When isiah was hired to run the liberty he claimed Dolan did it behind Phil's back and that Phil was pissed and ready to leave, he also claimed isiah was really running the Knicks behind the scenes...
reporting rumors like the above vs. making up something like a contract clause that can easily be proved one way or the other are two different things.
Quote:
The worry, and it's a legitimate one unfortunately, is that the GM Dolan would pick in that situation would be a crony or a talent of the Scott Layden/Isaiah Thomas rank.
at no time since he's owned the team has there been a normal interview process for a GM. Based on this history, I don't see any way he implements a process where they're interviewing young candidates from successful front offices or trying to lure away a guy like Buford or whatever.
And don't forget Mills in all his. There's no way he'd advocate for the above scenario because every single guy they'd talk to would have zero use for him.
It's a terrible thing to say, but I'll go ahead and say it anyway. If Jim Dolan were to die tomorrow, there would be a parade the following day.
It took a man with the historical stature of Red Auerbach to finally rebuild under Dolan. That's preposterous.
Quote:
if it happens.
Nonsense. It would be "embarrassing" if he left for the Nets or some other crap franchise. Losing a 70-year-old exec/figurehead to a franchise where his ties greatly outnumber his ties to NY wouldn't even make the top 20 list of embarrassing things the Knicks have endured over the years.
We'll agree to disagree then, because I remember what he said when he got here, which was that he wanted to leave the team with a foundation and a culture to build on.
That's certainly not done. They begged him to come here, paid him $60m on top of that, and that's still not enough to make the job desirable? It's absolutely embarrassing.
I know it is LA. I recognize that the Lakers have more cachet than the Knicks. But the LA cupboard has never been this bare in my lifetime. Shit, in my life they had only missed the playoffs twice until this current run, and those were mid-low 30s win teams. Current Lakers are on pace for 17 wins.
This is the same guy who said the Knicks interviewed Phil to be head coach and were laughed at, same guy who said he laughed at mills and didn't want him there and that is why Phil was not coming, oh yeah 2 days later he was named president...
All he has to do is write an article that Phil opted into his contract and will remain president, how will anyone know?/Knicks are not going to announce it
I know it is LA. I recognize that the Lakers have more cachet than the Knicks. But the LA cupboard has never been this bare in my lifetime. Shit, in my life they had only missed the playoffs twice until this current run, and those were mid-low 30s win teams. Current Lakers are on pace for 17 wins.
I just hope they don't get a shot at Ingram or Simmons. I hate that franchise. I hate their bandwagon fans.