Mike Garafolo & #8207;@MikeGarafolo 1m1 minute ago
Giants will be releasing LT Will Beatty today, sources say. They're also cutting G Geoff Schwartz, as @DanGrazianoESPN reported.
How does cutting 2 OL who barely played last year make the line "a lot worse"?
Schwartz played the vast majority of snaps before his leg was broken in Week 12. He wound up with 60% of offensive snaps for the year even missing the last five games entirely.
And Giants went 1-4 in those five games he was out.
Yup. I wonder if Cruz is next. Or does the bloodletting stop with these three? I also wonder if they cut Beatty because he refused a pay cut. I guess we'll never know. I thought he should stay, even with his current salary, assuming he was healthy. But maybe he isn't healthy, or the Giants don't even want to pay him a reduced salary.
How does cutting 2 OL who barely played last year make the line "a lot worse"?
Schwartz played the vast majority of snaps before his leg was broken in Week 12. He wound up with 60% of offensive snaps for the year even missing the last five games entirely.
And Giants went 1-4 in those five games he was out.
The team also ran the ball a whole lot better in the second half of the season without him in there and he wasnt all that great in pass pro when he played. Correlating the Giants record to when Schwartz went down is the biggest stretch ive seen on here in a long time.
How does cutting 2 OL who barely played last year make the line "a lot worse"?
Schwartz played the vast majority of snaps before his leg was broken in Week 12. He wound up with 60% of offensive snaps for the year even missing the last five games entirely.
And Giants went 1-4 in those five games he was out.
SO he was the reason they went 1-4 in those 5 games?
Schwartz was pretty bad last year. His departure does not make the team a lot worse...
play in the draft. Do not where but you never know who could be there when we pick. One more piece could make us elite down the line. Think in the past we were remiss here but have learned our lesson the hard way.
How does cutting 2 OL who barely played last year make the line "a lot worse"?
Schwartz played the vast majority of snaps before his leg was broken in Week 12. He wound up with 60% of offensive snaps for the year even missing the last five games entirely.
And Giants went 1-4 in those five games he was out.
SO he was the reason they went 1-4 in those 5 games?
Schwartz was pretty bad last year. His departure does not make the team a lot worse...
And not to mention The running game picked up significantly in the last 4 games of the season, when Schwartz was out.
To me, THAT is a more realistic correlation than the Giants team record while Schwartz was out...
in 2015 by PFF before he was hurt in Week 12. You can take a different position but the mere assertion that he played badly is hardly persuasive.
I think it's the right decision to move on because he incurred another significant injury (on a dirty, intent to injure play). And I'm a Bobby Hart fan.
But to claim that Schwartz did not contribute in 2015 is false.
in 2015 by PFF before he was hurt in Week 12. You can take a different position but the mere assertion that he played badly is hardly persuasive.
I think it's the right decision to move on because he incurred another significant injury (on a dirty, intent to injure play). And I'm a Bobby Hart fan.
But to claim that Schwartz did not contribute in 2015 is false.
Glad he is gone from the Giants... There are 31 other teams that he is free to sign with and realize his salary and value with.
in 2015 by PFF before he was hurt in Week 12. You can take a different position but the mere assertion that he played badly is hardly persuasive.
I think it's the right decision to move on because he incurred another significant injury (on a dirty, intent to injure play). And I'm a Bobby Hart fan.
But to claim that Schwartz did not contribute in 2015 is false.
Fine, HE played, Beatty didn't. GS wasn't very good - I don't really care what PFF said; didn't they also give Eli like a 2 point rating for his game vs NO? - so his loss doesn't make the line a lot worse..
RE: You guys who think Cordy Glenn is leaving Buffalo are delusional.
William Beatty @willbeatty65 7m7 minutes ago
Thanks @Giants, Mara & Tisch Family & Fans for 7 unforgettable years -its been a privilege to be a part of Big Blue Legacy #Honored #Blessed
It's true he had a rough rookie season at LT. But he must have shown enough that the team is willing to let Beatty go away, reportedly without even offering him a reduced salary.
If Giants believe Flowers can only play RT then they could only let Beatty go if they were sure they'd pick up a LT better than Pugh in the draft or FA. And it's impossible to be sure of that.
they would have to keep him, despite his high price tag and moving to RT, but the Giants didnt think he was that valuable. Now add a tackle to the long list of Giant priority needs. Maybe this IS the year they trade back in the draft.
DE, CB, S, WR, T just for starters
they would have to keep him, despite his high price tag and moving to RT, but the Giants didnt think he was that valuable. Now add a tackle to the long list of Giant priority needs. Maybe this IS the year they trade back in the draft.
DE, CB, S, WR, T just for starters
Agreed, and I would add another DE and a DT to your list. Huge free agency period ahead
William Beatty @willbeatty65 7m7 minutes ago
Thanks @Giants, Mara & Tisch Family & Fans for 7 unforgettable years -its been a privilege to be a part of Big Blue Legacy #Honored #Blessed
there are quite a few solid OL available who will be cheaper and are solid players like LT/RT Donald Stephenson, G Jeff Allen, and G/T Kelechi Osemele. They could also bring in the young and under achieving Amini Silatolu from the Panthers to compete with Hart at RG. Silatolu was a very popular player here during the year he entered the draft and he hasn't lived up to expectations but might just need a change of scenery.
I also wouldn't be so quick to write off Flowers at LT. He had a pretty balky ankle and kept playing on it even though he aggravated it numerous times. Tyron Smith didn't even play LT his rookie year. It's a tough spot to plug in a rookie and expect immediate payoff.
He did not play well. Maybe he was just a rookie, maybe he was hurt, maybe he's not a LT. He's now the LT so we will see.
Beatty was strictly a salary cap move. This guy has come back from detached retina, broken leg and torn pectoral muscle. He couldn't play with a torn rotator cuff that needed surgery. There's a difference between broken bones and torn muscles and a sprain.
How does cutting 2 OL who barely played last year make the line "a lot worse"?
Schwartz played the vast majority of snaps before his leg was broken in Week 12. He wound up with 60% of offensive snaps for the year even missing the last five games entirely.
And Giants went 1-4 in those five games he was out.
SO he was the reason they went 1-4 in those 5 games?
Schwartz was pretty bad last year. His departure does not make the team a lot worse...
What were you watching? When he was in there he was pretty damn good. He also spend time covering for Newhouse.
Nice to have a well-balanced old timer here. Good comment. Those ripping on Flowers defy imagination. The kid came in as a rookie and held his own the entire season....which happens rarely for an O-lineman. Good God, what more do you people want? Stupidity reigns on BBI.
RE: Beatty moving on is probably good for both sides
the Giants have Flowers at LT and cannot then pay LT money to Beatty. Beatty will likely find a LT job somewhere else. Thanks and Good luck to Beatty.
The net cost of keeping Beatty is $4.175M, he has a $5M hit in dead money this year or just $2.5M next year. His net cost for this year is $6.675M + $2.5M in dead money for next year. that means he would have been the 22nd lowest paid LT for 2016 at $6.675M. Unless he is physically unable to perform at the same level as pre-injury, this move is a very bad business decision and bad move by the Giants. I personally think Pugh played good as RT and his position throughout college was LT. Beason and Schwartz should not be missed as Beason couldn't stay on the field and Schwartz wasn't worth what he was earning. This puts a new light on the 1st rd draft choice. IMHO.
RE: RE: Beatty moving on is probably good for both sides
the Giants have Flowers at LT and cannot then pay LT money to Beatty. Beatty will likely find a LT job somewhere else. Thanks and Good luck to Beatty.
The net cost of keeping Beatty is $4.175M, he has a $5M hit in dead money this year or just $2.5M next year. His net cost for this year is $6.675M + $2.5M in dead money for next year. that means he would have been the 22nd lowest paid LT for 2016 at $6.675M. Unless he is physically unable to perform at the same level as pre-injury, this move is a very bad business decision and bad move by the Giants. I personally think Pugh played good as RT and his position throughout college was LT. Beason and Schwartz should not be missed as Beason couldn't stay on the field and Schwartz wasn't worth what he was earning. This puts a new light on the 1st rd draft choice. IMHO.
This move had nothing to do with money - it's the Giants deciding that they either can't rely on Beatty going forward or just outright don't want him playing for them. IMO, it's probably more the former, as he's been injured in one way or another for some time now.
Maybe he goes after Geoff's brother (Mitchell) to play RT.
I wouldn't be harsh on a Flowers, he was young, and
somewhat injured. He did show toughness playing thru
the ankle issue. I still think he can be a LT, needs
to improve his technique and footwork.
He was good in that 2012 season, thank him for that but good God was he disastrous in 2013 and he looked "Ok" in 2014, not that comparing him to the joke he was in 2013 is much of a good idea. That's me being polite. We surely won't miss him.
I don't think Beatty really ever wanted to play football all that much. Sure, he'd show up for the money. Who wouldn't? But his heart was never in football.
As for Schwartz, not only was he never as good as his brother, he had so many injuries, he could almost be accused of malingering. One of Reese's failures. He wasn't healthy when he was signed, and he was never healthy once added to the roster. Good riddance.
Sometimes a cut is prelude is a resigning, but if there is significant dead money this sounds pretty final.
Have to say I'm surprised. Unless the rotator cuff was more serious than advertised, Beatty's chances of an injury in 2016 wouldn't seem to be any greater than anyone else's. Now the Giants need to take more resources from the D for a tackle.
That there is a chance, that the entire strategy with the OL will change this year. We have a new OL coach who is going to build a WCO OL. With that in mind and 2 players who didn't take a snap last year I think this makes sense.
I was pretty sure that 1 of the 2 OL would have been cut. I am surprised that they cut both because the dead money on Beatty is really pretty high.
Last time Reese cut a question mark, overpriced LT, David Diehl ended up filling the spot.
Reality is there is nothing guaranteed to anyone.
What we know is Flowers is tough and he got beat like a drum all year. His ankle sprain didn't make his hand work and vision suck. Maybe a year of trial by fire does it. If there is a better fit at LT, I really hope we don't sink Flowers there because he was drafted high. IMO he's a McKenzie type talent at RT.
and obviously this decision is aligned with what I have been saying all season. People here saying that Beatty was a huge loss. I was saying he was just an avg guy last season and lets not make this as if we lost a pro bowler. Well, the Giants obviously did not think he was worth $6 million either.
OR.... we fucked up his recovery to the point where they do not think he can get back to what he was. This would not surprise me either.
Wow, with the departure of Beatty, a 2nd rounder, look at the
devastation in the ranks of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd round draft picks from 2007-2013. (All still present from 2014-15.)
Only players left are JPP, Prince, Randle, Hosley, Pugh, Hankins.
Prince is as good as gone since once a player declares he wants to test free agency Reese never chases him.
Hosley is as good as gone because, well, because he's Hosley and no one thinks he is worth being on any team's roster.
JPP will probably stay because Jerry realizes he can't get rid of everyone.
My favorite year is 2009 when the Giants had a number one, two number twos and two number threes. Quite an accomplishment to pick five guys who should be in their prime years right now and have none left on the roster.
Nicks: injuries, attitude, decline in ability? only Eli knows the Nicks story for sure and he's not talking.
Sintim: Clint Who? The last linebacker taken with a 1st or 2nd, and maybe he is the reason they never went that high for LB again.
Beatty: For all the reasons stated in this thread.
Barden and Beckum: Two 3rd round picks. Memory not too clear on why they didn't last, but probably because they sucked.
Have to hand it to Jerry. Most GM's hold on to their lousy high draft picks longer than they should because cutting them makes them look bad. Jerry I guess doesn't care.
Sintim wasn't a good fit, but he did look pretty good
before he got hurt. IMO he would have given us someone that could bring pressure from the edge. We never went LB high again because there simply wasn't a guy we thought was worth the value of a 1st or 2nd round choice IMO.
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Im ducking and hiding as i say that...
This is really all we have to go on right now because a mediocre OL just got a lot worse.
How does cutting 2 OL who barely played last year make the line "a lot worse"?
How does cutting 2 OL who barely played last year make the line "a lot worse"?
Schwartz played the vast majority of snaps before his leg was broken in Week 12. He wound up with 60% of offensive snaps for the year even missing the last five games entirely.
And Giants went 1-4 in those five games he was out.
Yup. I wonder if Cruz is next. Or does the bloodletting stop with these three? I also wonder if they cut Beatty because he refused a pay cut. I guess we'll never know. I thought he should stay, even with his current salary, assuming he was healthy. But maybe he isn't healthy, or the Giants don't even want to pay him a reduced salary.
Quote:
How does cutting 2 OL who barely played last year make the line "a lot worse"?
Schwartz played the vast majority of snaps before his leg was broken in Week 12. He wound up with 60% of offensive snaps for the year even missing the last five games entirely.
And Giants went 1-4 in those five games he was out.
The team also ran the ball a whole lot better in the second half of the season without him in there and he wasnt all that great in pass pro when he played. Correlating the Giants record to when Schwartz went down is the biggest stretch ive seen on here in a long time.
Quote:
How does cutting 2 OL who barely played last year make the line "a lot worse"?
Schwartz played the vast majority of snaps before his leg was broken in Week 12. He wound up with 60% of offensive snaps for the year even missing the last five games entirely.
And Giants went 1-4 in those five games he was out.
SO he was the reason they went 1-4 in those 5 games?
Schwartz was pretty bad last year. His departure does not make the team a lot worse...
Well we just cleared up 12M
Quote:
In comment 12809340 speedywheels said:
Quote:
How does cutting 2 OL who barely played last year make the line "a lot worse"?
Schwartz played the vast majority of snaps before his leg was broken in Week 12. He wound up with 60% of offensive snaps for the year even missing the last five games entirely.
And Giants went 1-4 in those five games he was out.
SO he was the reason they went 1-4 in those 5 games?
Schwartz was pretty bad last year. His departure does not make the team a lot worse...
And not to mention The running game picked up significantly in the last 4 games of the season, when Schwartz was out.
To me, THAT is a more realistic correlation than the Giants team record while Schwartz was out...
I think it's the right decision to move on because he incurred another significant injury (on a dirty, intent to injure play). And I'm a Bobby Hart fan.
But to claim that Schwartz did not contribute in 2015 is false.
I think it's the right decision to move on because he incurred another significant injury (on a dirty, intent to injure play). And I'm a Bobby Hart fan.
But to claim that Schwartz did not contribute in 2015 is false.
Glad he is gone from the Giants... There are 31 other teams that he is free to sign with and realize his salary and value with.
I think it's the right decision to move on because he incurred another significant injury (on a dirty, intent to injure play). And I'm a Bobby Hart fan.
But to claim that Schwartz did not contribute in 2015 is false.
Fine, HE played, Beatty didn't. GS wasn't very good - I don't really care what PFF said; didn't they also give Eli like a 2 point rating for his game vs NO? - so his loss doesn't make the line a lot worse..
These sort of comments irritate the piss out of me. Definitive statements based on nothing.
Are you privy to the inner workings if the Bills front office?
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PUGH/FREE AGENT/RICHBURG\FREE AGENT\FLOWERS
Pugh played very, very well at guard.
If cutting Beatty moves him back outside, that's not a point in this move's favor to say the very least.
If he played very very well, then how come they haven't been able to run the ball at all?
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In comment 12809191 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
PUGH/FREE AGENT/RICHBURG\FREE AGENT\FLOWERS
Pugh played very, very well at guard.
If cutting Beatty moves him back outside, that's not a point in this move's favor to say the very least.
If he played very very well, then how come they haven't been able to run the ball at all?
Maybe because only 2 of our OL were playing well??
Thanks @Giants, Mara & Tisch Family & Fans for 7 unforgettable years -its been a privilege to be a part of Big Blue Legacy #Honored #Blessed
If Giants believe Flowers can only play RT then they could only let Beatty go if they were sure they'd pick up a LT better than Pugh in the draft or FA. And it's impossible to be sure of that.
DE, CB, S, WR, T just for starters
DE, CB, S, WR, T just for starters
Agreed, and I would add another DE and a DT to your list. Huge free agency period ahead
Thanks @Giants, Mara & Tisch Family & Fans for 7 unforgettable years -its been a privilege to be a part of Big Blue Legacy #Honored #Blessed
He shows more class than the fans.
Beatty was strictly a salary cap move. This guy has come back from detached retina, broken leg and torn pectoral muscle. He couldn't play with a torn rotator cuff that needed surgery. There's a difference between broken bones and torn muscles and a sprain.
Brandon Brooks OG from Houston
Kelechi Osemele OL from Baltimore
Are the two guys I'd like to see us fill the holes with.
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In comment 12809340 speedywheels said:
Quote:
How does cutting 2 OL who barely played last year make the line "a lot worse"?
Schwartz played the vast majority of snaps before his leg was broken in Week 12. He wound up with 60% of offensive snaps for the year even missing the last five games entirely.
And Giants went 1-4 in those five games he was out.
SO he was the reason they went 1-4 in those 5 games?
Schwartz was pretty bad last year. His departure does not make the team a lot worse...
What were you watching? When he was in there he was pretty damn good. He also spend time covering for Newhouse.
The voice of reason.
Nice to have a well-balanced old timer here. Good comment. Those ripping on Flowers defy imagination. The kid came in as a rookie and held his own the entire season....which happens rarely for an O-lineman. Good God, what more do you people want? Stupidity reigns on BBI.
The net cost of keeping Beatty is $4.175M, he has a $5M hit in dead money this year or just $2.5M next year. His net cost for this year is $6.675M + $2.5M in dead money for next year. that means he would have been the 22nd lowest paid LT for 2016 at $6.675M. Unless he is physically unable to perform at the same level as pre-injury, this move is a very bad business decision and bad move by the Giants. I personally think Pugh played good as RT and his position throughout college was LT. Beason and Schwartz should not be missed as Beason couldn't stay on the field and Schwartz wasn't worth what he was earning. This puts a new light on the 1st rd draft choice. IMHO.
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the Giants have Flowers at LT and cannot then pay LT money to Beatty. Beatty will likely find a LT job somewhere else. Thanks and Good luck to Beatty.
The net cost of keeping Beatty is $4.175M, he has a $5M hit in dead money this year or just $2.5M next year. His net cost for this year is $6.675M + $2.5M in dead money for next year. that means he would have been the 22nd lowest paid LT for 2016 at $6.675M. Unless he is physically unable to perform at the same level as pre-injury, this move is a very bad business decision and bad move by the Giants. I personally think Pugh played good as RT and his position throughout college was LT. Beason and Schwartz should not be missed as Beason couldn't stay on the field and Schwartz wasn't worth what he was earning. This puts a new light on the 1st rd draft choice. IMHO.
This move had nothing to do with money - it's the Giants deciding that they either can't rely on Beatty going forward or just outright don't want him playing for them. IMO, it's probably more the former, as he's been injured in one way or another for some time now.
Brandon Brooks OG from Houston
Kelechi Osemele OL from Baltimore
Are the two guys I'd like to see us fill the holes with.
Love Osemele
Maybe he goes after Geoff's brother (Mitchell) to play RT.
I wouldn't be harsh on a Flowers, he was young, and
somewhat injured. He did show toughness playing thru
the ankle issue. I still think he can be a LT, needs
to improve his technique and footwork.
He cannot play RT and Flowers is the LT
That and having too many birthdays.
As for Schwartz, not only was he never as good as his brother, he had so many injuries, he could almost be accused of malingering. One of Reese's failures. He wasn't healthy when he was signed, and he was never healthy once added to the roster. Good riddance.
Have to say I'm surprised. Unless the rotator cuff was more serious than advertised, Beatty's chances of an injury in 2016 wouldn't seem to be any greater than anyone else's. Now the Giants need to take more resources from the D for a tackle.
I was pretty sure that 1 of the 2 OL would have been cut. I am surprised that they cut both because the dead money on Beatty is really pretty high.
Reality is there is nothing guaranteed to anyone.
What we know is Flowers is tough and he got beat like a drum all year. His ankle sprain didn't make his hand work and vision suck. Maybe a year of trial by fire does it. If there is a better fit at LT, I really hope we don't sink Flowers there because he was drafted high. IMO he's a McKenzie type talent at RT.
OR.... we fucked up his recovery to the point where they do not think he can get back to what he was. This would not surprise me either.
Only players left are JPP, Prince, Randle, Hosley, Pugh, Hankins.
Prince is as good as gone since once a player declares he wants to test free agency Reese never chases him.
Hosley is as good as gone because, well, because he's Hosley and no one thinks he is worth being on any team's roster.
JPP will probably stay because Jerry realizes he can't get rid of everyone.
My favorite year is 2009 when the Giants had a number one, two number twos and two number threes. Quite an accomplishment to pick five guys who should be in their prime years right now and have none left on the roster.
Nicks: injuries, attitude, decline in ability? only Eli knows the Nicks story for sure and he's not talking.
Sintim: Clint Who? The last linebacker taken with a 1st or 2nd, and maybe he is the reason they never went that high for LB again.
Beatty: For all the reasons stated in this thread.
Barden and Beckum: Two 3rd round picks. Memory not too clear on why they didn't last, but probably because they sucked.
Have to hand it to Jerry. Most GM's hold on to their lousy high draft picks longer than they should because cutting them makes them look bad. Jerry I guess doesn't care.