Mike Garafolo & #8207;@MikeGarafolo 1m1 minute ago
Giants will be releasing LT Will Beatty today, sources say. They're also cutting G Geoff Schwartz, as @DanGrazianoESPN reported.
I can see them working out a new deal with Schwartz at a lower price, but that won't happen here. When healthy, he's a starting tackle in the NFL, someone will pay.
I hope they're not treating this as a one-year rebuild though. You can't turnover the roster this much and expect to have instant success, and it's an easy way to get into enduring cap hell. Judicious signings, good drafting and try to get going in the right direction.
Given the challenges EF had last year and also his technique, but I guess they are all on on him(which is fine).
I'd kept WB but he likely wouldnt take the cut, likely requested.
Someones could be getting an adequate starter, or nice backup.
Personally, I think he's back.
I hope they're not treating this as a one-year rebuild though. You can't turnover the roster this much and expect to have instant success, and it's an easy way to get into enduring cap hell. Judicious signings, good drafting and try to get going in the right direction.
I don't look at this as roster turnover at all. Not a single one of these players contributed anything of value this past season.
$15 mil in cap space for 3 players that contributed
I'm more interested in how they handle JPP/Prince/Ayers.
I'm also not sure we're going to find a lot of answers in free agency. What is needed now is for Odi, Kennard, Hankins, Collins, et al. to take the next step.
Beatty ? Flowers proved he couldn't play LT (but will probably be an excellent RT).
Left tackle in the NFL is a high valued position. Beatty isn't a world-beater, but when healthy is more than adequate. This REALLY surprises me, creating another hole in a line that's already depleted.
Maybe Beatty's pec injury is a lot more serious than we all thought.
Beatty ? Flowers proved he couldn't play LT (but will probably be an excellent RT).
Left tackle in the NFL is a high valued position. Beatty isn't a world-beater, but when healthy is more than adequate. This REALLY surprises me, creating another hole in a line that's already depleted.
Maybe Beatty's pec injury is a lot more serious than we all thought.
When did Flowers prove that?
These kinds of moves are really going to many guys on edge
would today most likely be the day? Although none of us have that answer - one would have to think so
Tommy, if the Giants are happy with his injury progress they will look to restructure him. If he isn't agreeable to that, then it's a possible cut. I don't expect any Cruz news today.
RE: Today's the day the Giants settle all accounts
Beatty ? Flowers proved he couldn't play LT (but will probably be an excellent RT).
Left tackle in the NFL is a high valued position. Beatty isn't a world-beater, but when healthy is more than adequate. This REALLY surprises me, creating another hole in a line that's already depleted.
Maybe Beatty's pec injury is a lot more serious than we all thought.
I wouldn't be so quick to write-off Flowers at LT. You had a rookie playing the most difficult spot on the O-line, while learning the speed of the NFL game. Most rookie tackles start at guard or RT before being trusted into the LT. Lets see how he develops.
would today most likely be the day? Although none of us have that answer - one would have to think so
Tommy, if the Giants are happy with his injury progress they will look to restructure him. If he isn't agreeable to that, then it's a possible cut. I don't expect any Cruz news today.
It will strictly be a pay cut, not restructure. He must be open to it, otherwise, he would be gone already.
But each had the same issue in that they haven't been healthy since signing big contracts, and it has hurt the team. At some point JR had to stop gambling on their health and move on. Cruz is in the same boat, we will see what happen there. As of now he is still not running.
and flashed enough as a rookie to see his potential. Give him a full year in the off season program and look out, regardless of which side this kid plays.
They may want to franchise him but they have to create a lot of room to actually do it. I'm hoping he squeezes through
Cutting Mario ($12.9M savings) will get them most of the room they'll need. A long term deal for Gilmore could free up a good chunk too as he is currently playing on his "option" which is close to the CB franchise tag.
As long as they don't plan on too many other moves, these 2 things should be enough to sign (or tag) Glenn. About the only other significant move they could make would be cutting Kyle Williams too.
Exactly. After his unwillingness to return to the starting lineup, he was sealing his own fate to remain on the team. We had a rookie limping around with a high ankle sprain gutting it out, and our prior starting LT couldn't make it onto the field after being cleared from his Pec injury opting instead for surgery to clean up some other injury.
I remember some grumblings about Beatty making business decisions...
It's been floating around his entire tenure, I was told the team was hugely disappointed when he bagged 2015, especially when the world saw Flowers refuse to do anything but play football at maximum effort.
If he isn't tough then this was inevitable and hopefully we get
someone better. But this is a cut where in mid-season, Beatty (who we won an SB with at LT) may be starting and playing well while our line struggles. With Reese's track record of a shit roster the past 4 years, I have no idea if this is a good move or not.
We can be more confident that Beason and Schwartz cuts are good moves but nothing there surprises in the least.
true, but we had a loosing season. its all part of a bigger picture. Here are your guards:
Jahri Evans G 32 NO TBD $7,000,000 UFA
Alex Boone G 28 SF TBD $3,723,000 UFA
Manuel Ramirez G 32 DET TBD $3,000,000 UFA
Evan Mathis G 34 DEN TBD $2,921,875 UFA
Chris Chester G 33 ATL TBD $2,800,000 UFA
Ted Larsen G 28 ARI TBD $2,435,000 UFA
Ramon Foster G 30 PIT TBD $2,150,000 UFA
Brandon Brooks G 26 HOU TBD $1,696,359 UFA
Johnnie Troutman G 28 SD TBD $1,589,938 UFA
Amini Silatolu G 27 CAR TBD $1,570,897 UFA
J.R. Sweezy G 26 SEA TBD $1,556,212 UFA
Mike Harris G 27 MIN TBD $1,542,000 UFA
Jeff Allen G 26 KC TBD $1,477,580 UFA
Byron Bell RT 27 TEN TBD $1,475,000 UFA
Richie Incognito G 32 BUF TBD $1,100,000 UFA
Kelechi Osemele LT 26 BAL TBD $1,064,595 UFA
Lance Louis G 30 IND TBD $966,250 UFA
Brandon Mosley G 27 NYG TBD $735,146 UFA
Dallas Reynolds G 31 NYG TBD $700,000 UFA
Chris Hairston LT 26 SD TBD $685,000 UFA
Willie Colon G 32 NYJ TBD $665,000 UFA
true, but we had a loosing season. its all part of a bigger picture. Here are your guards:
Jahri Evans G 32 NO TBD $7,000,000 UFA
Alex Boone G 28 SF TBD $3,723,000 UFA
Manuel Ramirez G 32 DET TBD $3,000,000 UFA
Evan Mathis G 34 DEN TBD $2,921,875 UFA
Chris Chester G 33 ATL TBD $2,800,000 UFA
Ted Larsen G 28 ARI TBD $2,435,000 UFA
Ramon Foster G 30 PIT TBD $2,150,000 UFA
Brandon Brooks G 26 HOU TBD $1,696,359 UFA
Johnnie Troutman G 28 SD TBD $1,589,938 UFA
Amini Silatolu G 27 CAR TBD $1,570,897 UFA
J.R. Sweezy G 26 SEA TBD $1,556,212 UFA
Mike Harris G 27 MIN TBD $1,542,000 UFA
Jeff Allen G 26 KC TBD $1,477,580 UFA
Byron Bell RT 27 TEN TBD $1,475,000 UFA
Richie Incognito G 32 BUF TBD $1,100,000 UFA
Kelechi Osemele LT 26 BAL TBD $1,064,595 UFA
Lance Louis G 30 IND TBD $966,250 UFA
Brandon Mosley G 27 NYG TBD $735,146 UFA
Dallas Reynolds G 31 NYG TBD $700,000 UFA
Chris Hairston LT 26 SD TBD $685,000 UFA
Willie Colon G 32 NYJ TBD $665,000 UFA
when you consider how relatively soft this team has been the past few seasons. You have to play banged up in the NFL, other players will follow the lead in one direction or the other.
when Coughlin came on board and cut some guys that many thought still had gas left in the tank like Mike Barrow.
I'll take it as a good sign because it means the Giants are cutting away some injury risks and hopefully also getting ready to mold the team in McAdoo's image.
he was a trainwreck in pass pro last year. regressed as the year went on. the last few weeks were tough to watch. i believe he has the skills to be an All Pro RT but even then, he needs seasoning.
will we be stubborn and insist on playing him at LT or do we make a run at Cordy Glenn or Russell Okung?? I would also consider moving Pugh to LT, he also looked better than EF to me.
Cruz has no leverage. He's missed 20+ games in a row going back to 2014. I think he understands that he's not going to continue playing under the current structure of his deal. He's already alluded to it. They'll re-do his deal and he'll have to prove he can play again to cash in.
he was a trainwreck in pass pro last year. regressed as the year went on. the last few weeks were tough to watch. i believe he has the skills to be an All Pro RT but even then, he needs seasoning.
will we be stubborn and insist on playing him at LT or do we make a run at Cordy Glenn or Russell Okung?? I would also consider moving Pugh to LT, he also looked better than EF to me.
You mean he regressed when he had a high ankle sprain that people thought would sideline him for half the season. He'll be just fine.
I also wouldn't be so quick to write off Flowers at LT. He had a pretty balky ankle and kept playing on it even though he aggravated it numerous times. Tyron Smith didn't even play LT his rookie year. It's a tough spot to plug in a rookie and expect immediate payoff.
about Osemele. Add him to Glenn and Okung. He proved he is a really good LT last year. (forget LG).
it will be interesting to see how McAdoo's scheme plays into this: the WCO (due to quick releases and zone blocking) usually tries to skate by with cheaper OLs, allocating resources to the skill positions. could see us kicking pugh outside and drafting a G who fits ben's O.
he was a trainwreck in pass pro last year. regressed as the year went on. the last few weeks were tough to watch. i believe he has the skills to be an All Pro RT but even then, he needs seasoning.
will we be stubborn and insist on playing him at LT or do we make a run at Cordy Glenn or Russell Okung?? I would also consider moving Pugh to LT, he also looked better than EF to me.
Is not the only way to build a team I'm all in on the moves but we can't expect to solve every problem on the team in one year. How much of a message does this send to JPP, Cruz and some others is key we will no longer feed the injured and foolish.
I also wouldn't be so quick to write off Flowers at LT. He had a pretty balky ankle and kept playing on it even though he aggravated it numerous times. Tyron Smith didn't even play LT his rookie year. It's a tough spot to plug in a rookie and expect immediate payoff.
it's true - there are valid excuses. young. injured. but you can't ignore that his level of play was poor. and I just happen to believe he screams "Right Tackle". even when we picked him. And I'm OK with that. I know JR disagrees.
That's about as bad an idea as I've heard lately. Pugh is serviceable as a fill-in, but no way can he start at Left Tackle. Plus, this screws with any chemistry that has been developed.
How does cutting 2 OL who barely played last year make the line "a lot worse"?
Schwartz played the vast majority of snaps before his leg was broken in Week 12. He wound up with 60% of offensive snaps for the year even missing the last five games entirely.
And Giants went 1-4 in those five games he was out.
Yup. I wonder if Cruz is next. Or does the bloodletting stop with these three? I also wonder if they cut Beatty because he refused a pay cut. I guess we'll never know. I thought he should stay, even with his current salary, assuming he was healthy. But maybe he isn't healthy, or the Giants don't even want to pay him a reduced salary.
How does cutting 2 OL who barely played last year make the line "a lot worse"?
Schwartz played the vast majority of snaps before his leg was broken in Week 12. He wound up with 60% of offensive snaps for the year even missing the last five games entirely.
And Giants went 1-4 in those five games he was out.
The team also ran the ball a whole lot better in the second half of the season without him in there and he wasnt all that great in pass pro when he played. Correlating the Giants record to when Schwartz went down is the biggest stretch ive seen on here in a long time.
How does cutting 2 OL who barely played last year make the line "a lot worse"?
Schwartz played the vast majority of snaps before his leg was broken in Week 12. He wound up with 60% of offensive snaps for the year even missing the last five games entirely.
And Giants went 1-4 in those five games he was out.
SO he was the reason they went 1-4 in those 5 games?
Schwartz was pretty bad last year. His departure does not make the team a lot worse...
play in the draft. Do not where but you never know who could be there when we pick. One more piece could make us elite down the line. Think in the past we were remiss here but have learned our lesson the hard way.
How does cutting 2 OL who barely played last year make the line "a lot worse"?
Schwartz played the vast majority of snaps before his leg was broken in Week 12. He wound up with 60% of offensive snaps for the year even missing the last five games entirely.
And Giants went 1-4 in those five games he was out.
SO he was the reason they went 1-4 in those 5 games?
Schwartz was pretty bad last year. His departure does not make the team a lot worse...
And not to mention The running game picked up significantly in the last 4 games of the season, when Schwartz was out.
To me, THAT is a more realistic correlation than the Giants team record while Schwartz was out...
in 2015 by PFF before he was hurt in Week 12. You can take a different position but the mere assertion that he played badly is hardly persuasive.
I think it's the right decision to move on because he incurred another significant injury (on a dirty, intent to injure play). And I'm a Bobby Hart fan.
But to claim that Schwartz did not contribute in 2015 is false.
in 2015 by PFF before he was hurt in Week 12. You can take a different position but the mere assertion that he played badly is hardly persuasive.
I think it's the right decision to move on because he incurred another significant injury (on a dirty, intent to injure play). And I'm a Bobby Hart fan.
But to claim that Schwartz did not contribute in 2015 is false.
Glad he is gone from the Giants... There are 31 other teams that he is free to sign with and realize his salary and value with.
in 2015 by PFF before he was hurt in Week 12. You can take a different position but the mere assertion that he played badly is hardly persuasive.
I think it's the right decision to move on because he incurred another significant injury (on a dirty, intent to injure play). And I'm a Bobby Hart fan.
But to claim that Schwartz did not contribute in 2015 is false.
Fine, HE played, Beatty didn't. GS wasn't very good - I don't really care what PFF said; didn't they also give Eli like a 2 point rating for his game vs NO? - so his loss doesn't make the line a lot worse..
RE: You guys who think Cordy Glenn is leaving Buffalo are delusional.
William Beatty @willbeatty65 7m7 minutes ago
Thanks @Giants, Mara & Tisch Family & Fans for 7 unforgettable years -its been a privilege to be a part of Big Blue Legacy #Honored #Blessed
It's true he had a rough rookie season at LT. But he must have shown enough that the team is willing to let Beatty go away, reportedly without even offering him a reduced salary.
If Giants believe Flowers can only play RT then they could only let Beatty go if they were sure they'd pick up a LT better than Pugh in the draft or FA. And it's impossible to be sure of that.
they would have to keep him, despite his high price tag and moving to RT, but the Giants didnt think he was that valuable. Now add a tackle to the long list of Giant priority needs. Maybe this IS the year they trade back in the draft.
DE, CB, S, WR, T just for starters
they would have to keep him, despite his high price tag and moving to RT, but the Giants didnt think he was that valuable. Now add a tackle to the long list of Giant priority needs. Maybe this IS the year they trade back in the draft.
DE, CB, S, WR, T just for starters
Agreed, and I would add another DE and a DT to your list. Huge free agency period ahead
William Beatty @willbeatty65 7m7 minutes ago
Thanks @Giants, Mara & Tisch Family & Fans for 7 unforgettable years -its been a privilege to be a part of Big Blue Legacy #Honored #Blessed
there are quite a few solid OL available who will be cheaper and are solid players like LT/RT Donald Stephenson, G Jeff Allen, and G/T Kelechi Osemele. They could also bring in the young and under achieving Amini Silatolu from the Panthers to compete with Hart at RG. Silatolu was a very popular player here during the year he entered the draft and he hasn't lived up to expectations but might just need a change of scenery.
I also wouldn't be so quick to write off Flowers at LT. He had a pretty balky ankle and kept playing on it even though he aggravated it numerous times. Tyron Smith didn't even play LT his rookie year. It's a tough spot to plug in a rookie and expect immediate payoff.
He did not play well. Maybe he was just a rookie, maybe he was hurt, maybe he's not a LT. He's now the LT so we will see.
Beatty was strictly a salary cap move. This guy has come back from detached retina, broken leg and torn pectoral muscle. He couldn't play with a torn rotator cuff that needed surgery. There's a difference between broken bones and torn muscles and a sprain.
How does cutting 2 OL who barely played last year make the line "a lot worse"?
Schwartz played the vast majority of snaps before his leg was broken in Week 12. He wound up with 60% of offensive snaps for the year even missing the last five games entirely.
And Giants went 1-4 in those five games he was out.
SO he was the reason they went 1-4 in those 5 games?
Schwartz was pretty bad last year. His departure does not make the team a lot worse...
What were you watching? When he was in there he was pretty damn good. He also spend time covering for Newhouse.
Nice to have a well-balanced old timer here. Good comment. Those ripping on Flowers defy imagination. The kid came in as a rookie and held his own the entire season....which happens rarely for an O-lineman. Good God, what more do you people want? Stupidity reigns on BBI.
RE: Beatty moving on is probably good for both sides
the Giants have Flowers at LT and cannot then pay LT money to Beatty. Beatty will likely find a LT job somewhere else. Thanks and Good luck to Beatty.
The net cost of keeping Beatty is $4.175M, he has a $5M hit in dead money this year or just $2.5M next year. His net cost for this year is $6.675M + $2.5M in dead money for next year. that means he would have been the 22nd lowest paid LT for 2016 at $6.675M. Unless he is physically unable to perform at the same level as pre-injury, this move is a very bad business decision and bad move by the Giants. I personally think Pugh played good as RT and his position throughout college was LT. Beason and Schwartz should not be missed as Beason couldn't stay on the field and Schwartz wasn't worth what he was earning. This puts a new light on the 1st rd draft choice. IMHO.
RE: RE: Beatty moving on is probably good for both sides
the Giants have Flowers at LT and cannot then pay LT money to Beatty. Beatty will likely find a LT job somewhere else. Thanks and Good luck to Beatty.
The net cost of keeping Beatty is $4.175M, he has a $5M hit in dead money this year or just $2.5M next year. His net cost for this year is $6.675M + $2.5M in dead money for next year. that means he would have been the 22nd lowest paid LT for 2016 at $6.675M. Unless he is physically unable to perform at the same level as pre-injury, this move is a very bad business decision and bad move by the Giants. I personally think Pugh played good as RT and his position throughout college was LT. Beason and Schwartz should not be missed as Beason couldn't stay on the field and Schwartz wasn't worth what he was earning. This puts a new light on the 1st rd draft choice. IMHO.
This move had nothing to do with money - it's the Giants deciding that they either can't rely on Beatty going forward or just outright don't want him playing for them. IMO, it's probably more the former, as he's been injured in one way or another for some time now.
Maybe he goes after Geoff's brother (Mitchell) to play RT.
I wouldn't be harsh on a Flowers, he was young, and
somewhat injured. He did show toughness playing thru
the ankle issue. I still think he can be a LT, needs
to improve his technique and footwork.
He was good in that 2012 season, thank him for that but good God was he disastrous in 2013 and he looked "Ok" in 2014, not that comparing him to the joke he was in 2013 is much of a good idea. That's me being polite. We surely won't miss him.
I don't think Beatty really ever wanted to play football all that much. Sure, he'd show up for the money. Who wouldn't? But his heart was never in football.
As for Schwartz, not only was he never as good as his brother, he had so many injuries, he could almost be accused of malingering. One of Reese's failures. He wasn't healthy when he was signed, and he was never healthy once added to the roster. Good riddance.
Sometimes a cut is prelude is a resigning, but if there is significant dead money this sounds pretty final.
Have to say I'm surprised. Unless the rotator cuff was more serious than advertised, Beatty's chances of an injury in 2016 wouldn't seem to be any greater than anyone else's. Now the Giants need to take more resources from the D for a tackle.
That there is a chance, that the entire strategy with the OL will change this year. We have a new OL coach who is going to build a WCO OL. With that in mind and 2 players who didn't take a snap last year I think this makes sense.
I was pretty sure that 1 of the 2 OL would have been cut. I am surprised that they cut both because the dead money on Beatty is really pretty high.
Last time Reese cut a question mark, overpriced LT, David Diehl ended up filling the spot.
Reality is there is nothing guaranteed to anyone.
What we know is Flowers is tough and he got beat like a drum all year. His ankle sprain didn't make his hand work and vision suck. Maybe a year of trial by fire does it. If there is a better fit at LT, I really hope we don't sink Flowers there because he was drafted high. IMO he's a McKenzie type talent at RT.
and obviously this decision is aligned with what I have been saying all season. People here saying that Beatty was a huge loss. I was saying he was just an avg guy last season and lets not make this as if we lost a pro bowler. Well, the Giants obviously did not think he was worth $6 million either.
OR.... we fucked up his recovery to the point where they do not think he can get back to what he was. This would not surprise me either.
Wow, with the departure of Beatty, a 2nd rounder, look at the
devastation in the ranks of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd round draft picks from 2007-2013. (All still present from 2014-15.)
Only players left are JPP, Prince, Randle, Hosley, Pugh, Hankins.
Prince is as good as gone since once a player declares he wants to test free agency Reese never chases him.
Hosley is as good as gone because, well, because he's Hosley and no one thinks he is worth being on any team's roster.
JPP will probably stay because Jerry realizes he can't get rid of everyone.
My favorite year is 2009 when the Giants had a number one, two number twos and two number threes. Quite an accomplishment to pick five guys who should be in their prime years right now and have none left on the roster.
Nicks: injuries, attitude, decline in ability? only Eli knows the Nicks story for sure and he's not talking.
Sintim: Clint Who? The last linebacker taken with a 1st or 2nd, and maybe he is the reason they never went that high for LB again.
Beatty: For all the reasons stated in this thread.
Barden and Beckum: Two 3rd round picks. Memory not too clear on why they didn't last, but probably because they sucked.
Have to hand it to Jerry. Most GM's hold on to their lousy high draft picks longer than they should because cutting them makes them look bad. Jerry I guess doesn't care.
Sintim wasn't a good fit, but he did look pretty good
before he got hurt. IMO he would have given us someone that could bring pressure from the edge. We never went LB high again because there simply wasn't a guy we thought was worth the value of a 1st or 2nd round choice IMO.
Holy shit!
Will Beatty was due $6.65m in non-guaranteed compensation this coming season. Missed all of last season.
Are they able under the rules to resign Beatty at a cheaper rate? I wouldn't mind giving him a shot on a team friendly deal to compete for a spot.
This is an excellent start.
I'd kept WB but he likely wouldnt take the cut, likely requested.
Someones could be getting an adequate starter, or nice backup.
Personally, I think he's back.
Beatty, IMO, is both the most surprising and the most beneficial. I never liked him as our starting left tackle. Always thought we could do better.
I think it's more a case of Reese having full control of roster decisions...
You are reading my mind on Glenn. But Bobby Hart may be getting a look at. I think he has the ability. Tackle feet in a guard's body.
I don't look at this as roster turnover at all. Not a single one of these players contributed anything of value this past season.
Are they able under the rules to resign Beatty at a cheaper rate? I wouldn't mind giving him a shot on a team friendly deal to compete for a spot.
Pretty sure the rules don't prohibit you from re-signing a cut player unless the player was IR'd and let go with an injury settlement.
I'm also not sure we're going to find a lot of answers in free agency. What is needed now is for Odi, Kennard, Hankins, Collins, et al. to take the next step.
Left tackle in the NFL is a high valued position. Beatty isn't a world-beater, but when healthy is more than adequate. This REALLY surprises me, creating another hole in a line that's already depleted.
Maybe Beatty's pec injury is a lot more serious than we all thought.
Left tackle in the NFL is a high valued position. Beatty isn't a world-beater, but when healthy is more than adequate. This REALLY surprises me, creating another hole in a line that's already depleted.
Maybe Beatty's pec injury is a lot more serious than we all thought.
When did Flowers prove that?
He was a rookie playing with a high ankle sprain all year.
Tommy, if the Giants are happy with his injury progress they will look to restructure him. If he isn't agreeable to that, then it's a possible cut. I don't expect any Cruz news today.
who has to answer for Santino?
Signing FA has a direct effect on your own pending FA costs
I don't think he proved anything.
The recent history of high-drafted rookies playing LT in this league is that they struggle. Wouldn't rule anything out at this point.
Left tackle in the NFL is a high valued position. Beatty isn't a world-beater, but when healthy is more than adequate. This REALLY surprises me, creating another hole in a line that's already depleted.
Maybe Beatty's pec injury is a lot more serious than we all thought.
Quote:
would today most likely be the day? Although none of us have that answer - one would have to think so
Tommy, if the Giants are happy with his injury progress they will look to restructure him. If he isn't agreeable to that, then it's a possible cut. I don't expect any Cruz news today.
It will strictly be a pay cut, not restructure. He must be open to it, otherwise, he would be gone already.
Bills' beat writer thinks franchise tag for Glenn is likely scenario.
http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/01/27/249754/
Who is this 'once in ten years' DE that we're passing on? Bosa is going to be long gone by the time we pick.
I remember some grumblings about Beatty making business decisions...
Don't need that on the offensive line. Or anywhere, really.
Cutting Mario ($12.9M savings) will get them most of the room they'll need. A long term deal for Gilmore could free up a good chunk too as he is currently playing on his "option" which is close to the CB franchise tag.
As long as they don't plan on too many other moves, these 2 things should be enough to sign (or tag) Glenn. About the only other significant move they could make would be cutting Kyle Williams too.
Exactly. After his unwillingness to return to the starting lineup, he was sealing his own fate to remain on the team. We had a rookie limping around with a high ankle sprain gutting it out, and our prior starting LT couldn't make it onto the field after being cleared from his Pec injury opting instead for surgery to clean up some other injury.
Pugh played very, very well at guard.
If cutting Beatty moves him back outside, that's not a point in this move's favor to say the very least.
Quote:
.
I remember some grumblings about Beatty making business decisions...
It's been floating around his entire tenure, I was told the team was hugely disappointed when he bagged 2015, especially when the world saw Flowers refuse to do anything but play football at maximum effort.
We can be more confident that Beason and Schwartz cuts are good moves but nothing there surprises in the least.
Jahri Evans G 32 NO TBD $7,000,000 UFA
Alex Boone G 28 SF TBD $3,723,000 UFA
Manuel Ramirez G 32 DET TBD $3,000,000 UFA
Evan Mathis G 34 DEN TBD $2,921,875 UFA
Chris Chester G 33 ATL TBD $2,800,000 UFA
Ted Larsen G 28 ARI TBD $2,435,000 UFA
Ramon Foster G 30 PIT TBD $2,150,000 UFA
Brandon Brooks G 26 HOU TBD $1,696,359 UFA
Johnnie Troutman G 28 SD TBD $1,589,938 UFA
Amini Silatolu G 27 CAR TBD $1,570,897 UFA
J.R. Sweezy G 26 SEA TBD $1,556,212 UFA
Mike Harris G 27 MIN TBD $1,542,000 UFA
Jeff Allen G 26 KC TBD $1,477,580 UFA
Byron Bell RT 27 TEN TBD $1,475,000 UFA
Richie Incognito G 32 BUF TBD $1,100,000 UFA
Kelechi Osemele LT 26 BAL TBD $1,064,595 UFA
Lance Louis G 30 IND TBD $966,250 UFA
Brandon Mosley G 27 NYG TBD $735,146 UFA
Dallas Reynolds G 31 NYG TBD $700,000 UFA
Chris Hairston LT 26 SD TBD $685,000 UFA
Willie Colon G 32 NYJ TBD $665,000 UFA
Jahri Evans G 32 NO TBD $7,000,000 UFA
Alex Boone G 28 SF TBD $3,723,000 UFA
Manuel Ramirez G 32 DET TBD $3,000,000 UFA
Evan Mathis G 34 DEN TBD $2,921,875 UFA
Chris Chester G 33 ATL TBD $2,800,000 UFA
Ted Larsen G 28 ARI TBD $2,435,000 UFA
Ramon Foster G 30 PIT TBD $2,150,000 UFA
Brandon Brooks G 26 HOU TBD $1,696,359 UFA
Johnnie Troutman G 28 SD TBD $1,589,938 UFA
Amini Silatolu G 27 CAR TBD $1,570,897 UFA
J.R. Sweezy G 26 SEA TBD $1,556,212 UFA
Mike Harris G 27 MIN TBD $1,542,000 UFA
Jeff Allen G 26 KC TBD $1,477,580 UFA
Byron Bell RT 27 TEN TBD $1,475,000 UFA
Richie Incognito G 32 BUF TBD $1,100,000 UFA
Kelechi Osemele LT 26 BAL TBD $1,064,595 UFA
Lance Louis G 30 IND TBD $966,250 UFA
Brandon Mosley G 27 NYG TBD $735,146 UFA
Dallas Reynolds G 31 NYG TBD $700,000 UFA
Chris Hairston LT 26 SD TBD $685,000 UFA
Willie Colon G 32 NYJ TBD $665,000 UFA
Not a great list.
Old guys looking for one last payday.
I'll take it as a good sign because it means the Giants are cutting away some injury risks and hopefully also getting ready to mold the team in McAdoo's image.
?
he was a trainwreck in pass pro last year. regressed as the year went on. the last few weeks were tough to watch. i believe he has the skills to be an All Pro RT but even then, he needs seasoning.
will we be stubborn and insist on playing him at LT or do we make a run at Cordy Glenn or Russell Okung?? I would also consider moving Pugh to LT, he also looked better than EF to me.
he was a trainwreck in pass pro last year. regressed as the year went on. the last few weeks were tough to watch. i believe he has the skills to be an All Pro RT but even then, he needs seasoning.
will we be stubborn and insist on playing him at LT or do we make a run at Cordy Glenn or Russell Okung?? I would also consider moving Pugh to LT, he also looked better than EF to me.
You mean he regressed when he had a high ankle sprain that people thought would sideline him for half the season. He'll be just fine.
it will be interesting to see how McAdoo's scheme plays into this: the WCO (due to quick releases and zone blocking) usually tries to skate by with cheaper OLs, allocating resources to the skill positions. could see us kicking pugh outside and drafting a G who fits ben's O.
he was a trainwreck in pass pro last year. regressed as the year went on. the last few weeks were tough to watch. i believe he has the skills to be an All Pro RT but even then, he needs seasoning.
will we be stubborn and insist on playing him at LT or do we make a run at Cordy Glenn or Russell Okung?? I would also consider moving Pugh to LT, he also looked better than EF to me.
High ankle sprain dumb ass
This is really all we have to go on right now because a mediocre OL just got a lot worse.
it's true - there are valid excuses. young. injured. but you can't ignore that his level of play was poor. and I just happen to believe he screams "Right Tackle". even when we picked him. And I'm OK with that. I know JR disagrees.
That's about as bad an idea as I've heard lately. Pugh is serviceable as a fill-in, but no way can he start at Left Tackle. Plus, this screws with any chemistry that has been developed.
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Im ducking and hiding as i say that...
This is really all we have to go on right now because a mediocre OL just got a lot worse.
How does cutting 2 OL who barely played last year make the line "a lot worse"?
How does cutting 2 OL who barely played last year make the line "a lot worse"?
Schwartz played the vast majority of snaps before his leg was broken in Week 12. He wound up with 60% of offensive snaps for the year even missing the last five games entirely.
And Giants went 1-4 in those five games he was out.
Yup. I wonder if Cruz is next. Or does the bloodletting stop with these three? I also wonder if they cut Beatty because he refused a pay cut. I guess we'll never know. I thought he should stay, even with his current salary, assuming he was healthy. But maybe he isn't healthy, or the Giants don't even want to pay him a reduced salary.
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How does cutting 2 OL who barely played last year make the line "a lot worse"?
Schwartz played the vast majority of snaps before his leg was broken in Week 12. He wound up with 60% of offensive snaps for the year even missing the last five games entirely.
And Giants went 1-4 in those five games he was out.
The team also ran the ball a whole lot better in the second half of the season without him in there and he wasnt all that great in pass pro when he played. Correlating the Giants record to when Schwartz went down is the biggest stretch ive seen on here in a long time.
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How does cutting 2 OL who barely played last year make the line "a lot worse"?
Schwartz played the vast majority of snaps before his leg was broken in Week 12. He wound up with 60% of offensive snaps for the year even missing the last five games entirely.
And Giants went 1-4 in those five games he was out.
SO he was the reason they went 1-4 in those 5 games?
Schwartz was pretty bad last year. His departure does not make the team a lot worse...
Well we just cleared up 12M
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In comment 12809340 speedywheels said:
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How does cutting 2 OL who barely played last year make the line "a lot worse"?
Schwartz played the vast majority of snaps before his leg was broken in Week 12. He wound up with 60% of offensive snaps for the year even missing the last five games entirely.
And Giants went 1-4 in those five games he was out.
SO he was the reason they went 1-4 in those 5 games?
Schwartz was pretty bad last year. His departure does not make the team a lot worse...
And not to mention The running game picked up significantly in the last 4 games of the season, when Schwartz was out.
To me, THAT is a more realistic correlation than the Giants team record while Schwartz was out...
I think it's the right decision to move on because he incurred another significant injury (on a dirty, intent to injure play). And I'm a Bobby Hart fan.
But to claim that Schwartz did not contribute in 2015 is false.
I think it's the right decision to move on because he incurred another significant injury (on a dirty, intent to injure play). And I'm a Bobby Hart fan.
But to claim that Schwartz did not contribute in 2015 is false.
Glad he is gone from the Giants... There are 31 other teams that he is free to sign with and realize his salary and value with.
I think it's the right decision to move on because he incurred another significant injury (on a dirty, intent to injure play). And I'm a Bobby Hart fan.
But to claim that Schwartz did not contribute in 2015 is false.
Fine, HE played, Beatty didn't. GS wasn't very good - I don't really care what PFF said; didn't they also give Eli like a 2 point rating for his game vs NO? - so his loss doesn't make the line a lot worse..
These sort of comments irritate the piss out of me. Definitive statements based on nothing.
Are you privy to the inner workings if the Bills front office?
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PUGH/FREE AGENT/RICHBURG\FREE AGENT\FLOWERS
Pugh played very, very well at guard.
If cutting Beatty moves him back outside, that's not a point in this move's favor to say the very least.
If he played very very well, then how come they haven't been able to run the ball at all?
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In comment 12809191 idiotsavant said:
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PUGH/FREE AGENT/RICHBURG\FREE AGENT\FLOWERS
Pugh played very, very well at guard.
If cutting Beatty moves him back outside, that's not a point in this move's favor to say the very least.
If he played very very well, then how come they haven't been able to run the ball at all?
Maybe because only 2 of our OL were playing well??
Thanks @Giants, Mara & Tisch Family & Fans for 7 unforgettable years -its been a privilege to be a part of Big Blue Legacy #Honored #Blessed
If Giants believe Flowers can only play RT then they could only let Beatty go if they were sure they'd pick up a LT better than Pugh in the draft or FA. And it's impossible to be sure of that.
DE, CB, S, WR, T just for starters
DE, CB, S, WR, T just for starters
Agreed, and I would add another DE and a DT to your list. Huge free agency period ahead
Thanks @Giants, Mara & Tisch Family & Fans for 7 unforgettable years -its been a privilege to be a part of Big Blue Legacy #Honored #Blessed
He shows more class than the fans.
Beatty was strictly a salary cap move. This guy has come back from detached retina, broken leg and torn pectoral muscle. He couldn't play with a torn rotator cuff that needed surgery. There's a difference between broken bones and torn muscles and a sprain.
Brandon Brooks OG from Houston
Kelechi Osemele OL from Baltimore
Are the two guys I'd like to see us fill the holes with.
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In comment 12809340 speedywheels said:
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How does cutting 2 OL who barely played last year make the line "a lot worse"?
Schwartz played the vast majority of snaps before his leg was broken in Week 12. He wound up with 60% of offensive snaps for the year even missing the last five games entirely.
And Giants went 1-4 in those five games he was out.
SO he was the reason they went 1-4 in those 5 games?
Schwartz was pretty bad last year. His departure does not make the team a lot worse...
What were you watching? When he was in there he was pretty damn good. He also spend time covering for Newhouse.
The voice of reason.
Nice to have a well-balanced old timer here. Good comment. Those ripping on Flowers defy imagination. The kid came in as a rookie and held his own the entire season....which happens rarely for an O-lineman. Good God, what more do you people want? Stupidity reigns on BBI.
The net cost of keeping Beatty is $4.175M, he has a $5M hit in dead money this year or just $2.5M next year. His net cost for this year is $6.675M + $2.5M in dead money for next year. that means he would have been the 22nd lowest paid LT for 2016 at $6.675M. Unless he is physically unable to perform at the same level as pre-injury, this move is a very bad business decision and bad move by the Giants. I personally think Pugh played good as RT and his position throughout college was LT. Beason and Schwartz should not be missed as Beason couldn't stay on the field and Schwartz wasn't worth what he was earning. This puts a new light on the 1st rd draft choice. IMHO.
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the Giants have Flowers at LT and cannot then pay LT money to Beatty. Beatty will likely find a LT job somewhere else. Thanks and Good luck to Beatty.
The net cost of keeping Beatty is $4.175M, he has a $5M hit in dead money this year or just $2.5M next year. His net cost for this year is $6.675M + $2.5M in dead money for next year. that means he would have been the 22nd lowest paid LT for 2016 at $6.675M. Unless he is physically unable to perform at the same level as pre-injury, this move is a very bad business decision and bad move by the Giants. I personally think Pugh played good as RT and his position throughout college was LT. Beason and Schwartz should not be missed as Beason couldn't stay on the field and Schwartz wasn't worth what he was earning. This puts a new light on the 1st rd draft choice. IMHO.
This move had nothing to do with money - it's the Giants deciding that they either can't rely on Beatty going forward or just outright don't want him playing for them. IMO, it's probably more the former, as he's been injured in one way or another for some time now.
Brandon Brooks OG from Houston
Kelechi Osemele OL from Baltimore
Are the two guys I'd like to see us fill the holes with.
Love Osemele
Maybe he goes after Geoff's brother (Mitchell) to play RT.
I wouldn't be harsh on a Flowers, he was young, and
somewhat injured. He did show toughness playing thru
the ankle issue. I still think he can be a LT, needs
to improve his technique and footwork.
He cannot play RT and Flowers is the LT
That and having too many birthdays.
As for Schwartz, not only was he never as good as his brother, he had so many injuries, he could almost be accused of malingering. One of Reese's failures. He wasn't healthy when he was signed, and he was never healthy once added to the roster. Good riddance.
Have to say I'm surprised. Unless the rotator cuff was more serious than advertised, Beatty's chances of an injury in 2016 wouldn't seem to be any greater than anyone else's. Now the Giants need to take more resources from the D for a tackle.
I was pretty sure that 1 of the 2 OL would have been cut. I am surprised that they cut both because the dead money on Beatty is really pretty high.
Reality is there is nothing guaranteed to anyone.
What we know is Flowers is tough and he got beat like a drum all year. His ankle sprain didn't make his hand work and vision suck. Maybe a year of trial by fire does it. If there is a better fit at LT, I really hope we don't sink Flowers there because he was drafted high. IMO he's a McKenzie type talent at RT.
OR.... we fucked up his recovery to the point where they do not think he can get back to what he was. This would not surprise me either.
Only players left are JPP, Prince, Randle, Hosley, Pugh, Hankins.
Prince is as good as gone since once a player declares he wants to test free agency Reese never chases him.
Hosley is as good as gone because, well, because he's Hosley and no one thinks he is worth being on any team's roster.
JPP will probably stay because Jerry realizes he can't get rid of everyone.
My favorite year is 2009 when the Giants had a number one, two number twos and two number threes. Quite an accomplishment to pick five guys who should be in their prime years right now and have none left on the roster.
Nicks: injuries, attitude, decline in ability? only Eli knows the Nicks story for sure and he's not talking.
Sintim: Clint Who? The last linebacker taken with a 1st or 2nd, and maybe he is the reason they never went that high for LB again.
Beatty: For all the reasons stated in this thread.
Barden and Beckum: Two 3rd round picks. Memory not too clear on why they didn't last, but probably because they sucked.
Have to hand it to Jerry. Most GM's hold on to their lousy high draft picks longer than they should because cutting them makes them look bad. Jerry I guess doesn't care.