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Cutting Beason, Beatty, Schwartz - change of direction?

jcn56 : 2/10/2016 11:59 am
A lot of speculation leading up to today as to whether or not these three would be retained (likely at renegotiated prices) or if the Giants would look elsewhere.

TBH, I thought Beason was gone, if not on his own then a cut, but I did think the Giants would try to work with the other two to try to retain them as depth.

Looks like the Giants had other plans. Is this:

- a sign of a different approach with injured players?

- the Giants patience with these three running out?

- the luxury of cap space relative to prior years allowing them to cut bait with injured players as opposed to hope for a return due to lack of flexibility to absorb dead money?

Isn't it difficult to say yet?  
USAF NYG Fan : 2/10/2016 12:03 pm : link
With the exception of Beason who I think was a straight cut, Schwartz and Beatty may have turned down a request to restructure.
Yeah, if Cruz goes too,  
section125 : 2/10/2016 12:03 pm : link
then it is cutting bait with the injured players. Surprised about Beatty, but Ben maybe talked with Jerry and wants to build his way seeing how the injuries handcuffed the team. Better a young guy for 16 games vs an injured "vet."
Can't tell yet.  
old man : 2/10/2016 12:05 pm : link
JB and GS were obvious, but given the LT position and EF struggles, WB is a bit of a surprise.
Lets see who the next ax victims are:Ayers? JPP? VC(though?)?
If either of the later 2: yes.
Wonder if this is our first sign  
GiantFilthy : 2/10/2016 12:06 pm : link
showing just how much control Coughlin had over who stays and who goes. I'm not so sure Beatty or Schwartz would have been cut otherwise.
consider me a fan of these moves  
GiantNatty : 2/10/2016 12:08 pm : link
start fresh or have leverage to re-sign these guys with better terms. either way, a win.
RE: Wonder if this is our first sign  
jcn56 : 2/10/2016 12:08 pm : link
In comment 12809131 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
showing just how much control Coughlin had over who stays and who goes. I'm not so sure Beatty or Schwartz would have been cut otherwise.


I was wondering about this as well - guys who might have been tied to the prior coaching staff (if not TC directly then the position coaches) being let go.
3 guys who haven't played  
GiantsRage2007 : 2/10/2016 12:08 pm : link
At all in the last year, really, or very much in the last 2 years combined. The true definition of dead money. It's better spent on players who can actually play, not talk about playing.

Cruz is next.
RE: RE: Wonder if this is our first sign  
Greg from LI : 2/10/2016 12:10 pm : link
In comment 12809138 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 12809131 GiantFilthy said:


Quote:


showing just how much control Coughlin had over who stays and who goes. I'm not so sure Beatty or Schwartz would have been cut otherwise.



I was wondering about this as well - guys who might have been tied to the prior coaching staff (if not TC directly then the position coaches) being let go.


Same here. Seems pretty drastic compared to the way the Giants have operated in recent memory.
Maybe just a point where the team  
Beer Man : 2/10/2016 12:10 pm : link
decided it can no longer tie up big chunks of the salary cap on players that can't get off the training table long enough to contribute.
RE: Maybe just a point where the team  
Deej : 2/10/2016 12:12 pm : link
In comment 12809148 Beer Man said:
Quote:
decided it can no longer tie up big chunks of the salary cap on players that can't get off the training table long enough to contribute.


I think this
RE: Maybe just a point where the team  
jcn56 : 2/10/2016 12:12 pm : link
In comment 12809148 Beer Man said:
Quote:
decided it can no longer tie up big chunks of the salary cap on players that can't get off the training table long enough to contribute.


This is also a definite possibility, if not a factor. I've been pining that the Giants have to take multiple angles at the injury problem, one of them has to be cutting bait with older, oft-injured players.
I Just hope the get a ton of Defensive help in FA  
ANGPASS : 2/10/2016 12:13 pm : link
and not force draft picks
Beatty and Schwartz, showing they don't want to double down  
widmerseyebrow : 2/10/2016 12:15 pm : link
on mistakes like we've done in the past. No more wishing and hoping for the best. Recent results put what's necessary above face saving. How much of this is Jerry and how much is this pressure from others in the organization?
RE: RE: Wonder if this is our first sign  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 2/10/2016 12:17 pm : link
In comment 12809138 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 12809131 GiantFilthy said:


Quote:


showing just how much control Coughlin had over who stays and who goes. I'm not so sure Beatty or Schwartz would have been cut otherwise.



I was wondering about this as well - guys who might have been tied to the prior coaching staff (if not TC directly then the position coaches) being let go.


I don't follow - weren't these all Reese picks (as a draft pick and as free agent signings)? Maybe Beatty, but don't know why TC would be married to Schwartz or Beason at all?
There's no way for us to know, but I'd love to find out  
jcn56 : 2/10/2016 12:17 pm : link
whether similar conversations were had last season regarding their fates, or whether the cap implications of cutting them and finding suitable replacements made it a moot point.
RE: RE: RE: Wonder if this is our first sign  
jcn56 : 2/10/2016 12:20 pm : link
In comment 12809168 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
Quote:
In comment 12809138 jcn56 said:


Quote:


In comment 12809131 GiantFilthy said:


Quote:


showing just how much control Coughlin had over who stays and who goes. I'm not so sure Beatty or Schwartz would have been cut otherwise.



I was wondering about this as well - guys who might have been tied to the prior coaching staff (if not TC directly then the position coaches) being let go.



I don't follow - weren't these all Reese picks (as a draft pick and as free agent signings)? Maybe Beatty, but don't know why TC would be married to Schwartz or Beason at all?


All three were acquired by Reese one way or the other - the question is, was this the first time anyone has considered cutting them, or was there resistance in the past?

Another possibility is that it could have been Reese keeping them around, and the move to McAdoo means that BM doesn't want them around anymore. We have no way of knowing whether this change was just brought about by a new season and another injury plagued campaign, by the regime change, or the cap situation.
RE: RE: RE: Wonder if this is our first sign  
widmerseyebrow : 2/10/2016 12:21 pm : link
In comment 12809168 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
Quote:

I don't follow - weren't these all Reese picks (as a draft pick and as free agent signings)? Maybe Beatty, but don't know why TC would be married to Schwartz or Beason at all?


Exactly. TC didn't have a choice with these guys and supposedly complained about street free agents being their backups.
This is a good move  
MotownGIANTS : 2/10/2016 12:23 pm : link
This is also a sign that FA and draft philosophies might also be changing a bit. No more bargain basement shopping in the ER ward for vets and rookies (at least with premium picks).
Reese has done this before, and it worked out OK.  
Big Blue Blogger : 2/10/2016 12:23 pm : link
Petitgout... Emmons... Arrington...
Beatty... Beason... Schwartz.

In '07, the new GM was cutting bait. Now the new head coach is off to a similar start.

jcn56: Their contracts must have been a huge factor in the timing. All three players hit their "cut year" in 2016. It made sense last year to throw a bit more good money after the heap of bad money. Not now.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Wonder if this is our first sign  
jcn56 : 2/10/2016 12:23 pm : link
In comment 12809176 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
In comment 12809168 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:


Quote:



I don't follow - weren't these all Reese picks (as a draft pick and as free agent signings)? Maybe Beatty, but don't know why TC would be married to Schwartz or Beason at all?



Exactly. TC didn't have a choice with these guys and supposedly complained about street free agents being their backups.


You know that TC didn't have a choice - how, exactly?
My only concern is how are we  
Gmen703 : 2/10/2016 12:24 pm : link
Going to replace Beatty. Tackle just became a big priority. I hope are free agency spending mimics that of the NYG 2005 FA and not the more recent FA experienced by division foes (the "dream" team, Dall-ass in 2015).
RE: Reese has done this before, and it worked out OK.  
jcn56 : 2/10/2016 12:25 pm : link
In comment 12809180 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
Petitgout... Emmons... Arrington...
Beatty... Beason... Schwartz.

In '07, the new GM was cutting bait. Now the new head coach is off to a similar start.

jcn56: Their contracts must have been a huge factor in the timing. All three players hit their "cut year" in 2016. It made sense last year to throw a bit more good money after the heap of bad money. Not now.


Thanks B3 - I figured the contract structure must have played a part, but I think our cap situation last year (abysmal) didn't help. Not only was there the dead money to be accounted for, but signing guys to replace the wounded wasn't going to be easy.
RE: Reese has done this before, and it worked out OK.  
gidiefor : Mod : 2/10/2016 12:28 pm : link
In comment 12809180 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
Petitgout... Emmons... Arrington...
Beatty... Beason... Schwartz.

In '07, the new GM was cutting bait. Now the new head coach is off to a similar start.

jcn56: Their contracts must have been a huge factor in the timing. All three players hit their "cut year" in 2016. It made sense last year to throw a bit more good money after the heap of bad money. Not now.


I really don't see any possible downside to these cuts right now. These three players have dragged the team down for the past two years with sizable cap implications.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Wonder if this is our first sign  
widmerseyebrow : 2/10/2016 12:28 pm : link
In comment 12809181 jcn56 said:
Quote:
You know that TC didn't have a choice - how, exactly?


Look at the roster, who was he going to cut them in favor of? These are guys that were signed/resigned to be starters. We just barely fielded a starting 5 in 2015.
The real ? that remains right now is -- what are they going to do with  
gidiefor : Mod : 2/10/2016 12:29 pm : link
Cruz?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Wonder if this is our first sign  
jcn56 : 2/10/2016 12:30 pm : link
In comment 12809199 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
In comment 12809181 jcn56 said:


Quote:


You know that TC didn't have a choice - how, exactly?



Look at the roster, who was he going to cut them in favor of? These are guys that were signed/resigned to be starters. We just barely fielded a starting 5 in 2015.


In favor of FA acquisitions or draftees - the same way we cut these guys. It's not as if there are 3 people sitting on the roster to replace them right now, either.
With the possible exception of Beason...  
Big Blue Blogger : 2/10/2016 12:30 pm : link
...these three were NOT "Coughlin guys". Schwartz barely played for Coughlin at all. Beatty sat out the 2011 title run; he played a bigger role in Coughlin's demise than in anything good that has happened here since his arrival.

Coughlin may have protected some players: O'Hara, Diehl, Snee, Herzlich and Kiwanuka come to mind. I doubt he would have gone to bat very aggressively for this group.
I'm hoping this season's regular season resembles 2005.  
Mike in Long Beach : 2/10/2016 12:35 pm : link
.
RE: With the possible exception of Beason...  
widmerseyebrow : 2/10/2016 12:36 pm : link
In comment 12809212 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
Coughlin may have protected some players: O'Hara, Diehl, Snee, Herzlich and Kiwanuka come to mind. I doubt he would have gone to bat very aggressively for this group.


Even this is overstated around here imo. AS bad as Diehl sucked towards the end and Snee rendered ineffective, we had no one to replace them. People wanted Brewer and Mosley to replace them and in the end they were proven through and through to be absolute dog shit.

How much of the "favortism" was simply: "I have two guys that stink about the same, might as well go with the vet who will put his body on the line"?
RE: RE: With the possible exception of Beason...  
jcn56 : 2/10/2016 12:38 pm : link
In comment 12809228 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
In comment 12809212 Big Blue Blogger said:


Quote:


Coughlin may have protected some players: O'Hara, Diehl, Snee, Herzlich and Kiwanuka come to mind. I doubt he would have gone to bat very aggressively for this group.



Even this is overstated around here imo. AS bad as Diehl sucked towards the end and Snee rendered ineffective, we had no one to replace them. People wanted Brewer and Mosley to replace them and in the end they were proven through and through to be absolute dog shit.

How much of the "favortism" was simply: "I have two guys that stink about the same, might as well go with the vet who will put his body on the line"?


Or "you don't lose your job to injury", like when we had Sean Locklear playing pretty well and he got sent to the bench for a well forked David Diehl returning from injury?
it's well known that TC had a lot of input on  
fkap : 2/10/2016 12:50 pm : link
player acquisition. We don't know if any of these were his guys, but let's not pretend that he didn't have input and wasn't part of the dynamic of past years that resulted in the roster we have(had).
Honestly  
Matt in SGS : 2/10/2016 12:56 pm : link
all these cuts had logic behind them.

Beason has been injured throughout his career. The reason the Giants got him for a song from the Panthers was because he was hurt and lost his job to 2 top LBs. He played well when he was on the field, but a speed LB who keeps having problems with his feet and knee as he gets older makes him a cap casualty.

Schwartz is a big framed guard who has had issues with his legs the past couple of seasons. A toe injury, followed up with an ankle and then a broken leg. It's dangerous when you get a big body like that having leg issues, supporting that big frame. At the money owed, it's time to move on.

Beatty lost his job to Flowers. Simple as that. The injuries of course didn't help, but Flowers is the starting LT here for the next 10 years if everything works out. Beatty is not a guard nor is a right tackle.
RE: it's well known that TC had a lot of input on  
Jay in Toronto : 2/10/2016 1:14 pm : link
In comment 12809291 fkap said:
Quote:
player acquisition. We don't know if any of these were his guys, but let's not pretend that he didn't have input and wasn't part of the dynamic of past years that resulted in the roster we have(had).


Exactly, and not just the HC. Reese has indicated that it's almost a 'committee' decision, but the buck stops with him. I wonder how easy it would be if Chris Mara and the HC want a particular player and he and Ross would want another, for Reese to press the matter.
Think they have a plan.  
TMS : 2/10/2016 1:27 pm : link
They have had it for a while. Do not be surprised if TC is part of it.
RE: RE: RE: With the possible exception of Beason...  
widmerseyebrow : 2/10/2016 1:32 pm : link
In comment 12809233 jcn56 said:
Quote:
Or "you don't lose your job to injury", like when we had Sean Locklear playing pretty well and he got sent to the bench for a well forked David Diehl returning from injury?


True, and then he put Locklear back into the starting lineup and he shattered his leg.
cutting bait with oft injured players  
shabu : 2/10/2016 1:39 pm : link
cutting bait with oft injured players is plain common sense. Giants need players that can be relied upon to take the field.

they should've gotten rid of the dead weight  
SHO'NUFF : 2/10/2016 1:49 pm : link
and let TC coach another year.
RE: RE: Wonder if this is our first sign  
Watson : 2/10/2016 1:50 pm : link
In comment 12809138 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 12809131 GiantFilthy said:


Quote:


showing just how much control Coughlin had over who stays and who goes. I'm not so sure Beatty or Schwartz would have been cut otherwise.



I was wondering about this as well - guys who might have been tied to the prior coaching staff (if not TC directly then the position coaches) being let go.


Only player you could say has tie to TC was Beatty. The other 2 were brought in by Reese and hardly played in their short stint with the team. How could any professorial relationship have developed. Think it's more Reese realizing this isn't working out

Also, think another poster made good point about having sufficient cap space to absorb dead money.
Definitely seems like it since they weren't even asked about pay cuts  
Eric on Li : 2/10/2016 1:56 pm : link
also it's a pretty solid year for FA offensive lineman. I'd be very surprised if we don't see at least 1 guaranteed starter added, and maybe 2. Kelechi Osemele, JR Sweezy, Alex Boone, Marshal Yanda, Cordy Glenn, Brandon Brooks, Jeff Allen...a lot of solid players out there that may be able to fit within the 7M+ combined that was due to Beatty/Schwartz.
Nope  
nicky43 : 2/10/2016 3:29 pm : link
Just the start of a rebuilding year. It actually started the day they let Tom go. No playoffs in 2016 for us.
Start of a rebuilding year?  
Doomster : 2/10/2016 9:48 pm : link
If this is the start of rebuilding, don't you think it's a little late?
Empty gesture  
The Tempest : 2/11/2016 7:56 pm : link
Let us see if he fills those holes with significantly better players. Penciling in John Jerry and Marshall Newhouse as 2016 starters... Might as well start drinking now if you stopped at the end of last season.
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