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Lber Danny Trevathan: good fit for our MLB?

superspynyg : 2/12/2016 9:59 am
I know that he has been a Lber in Denvers 3-4. But I read his draft profile and it mentions that he might be suited for the 4-3. It's no secret that we need a new MLB with Beason gone. We have the money to add him. He has thespee. And has improved his cover skills.

What do you think?
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I think the biggest issue is the knee  
giants#1 : 2/12/2016 10:02 am : link
he's another guy with a serious knee injury in his past. Is he at a higher risk of re-injury or other lingering issues?
Yes, I think so  
JonC : 2/12/2016 10:03 am : link
.
So tempting, as is the idea of drafting either  
jcn56 : 2/12/2016 10:04 am : link
Jack or Smith in the draft. But then how do you have the injury rate we've had the past few years, and take that risk?

Almost seems like you're asking for trouble.
Pass  
Torrag : 2/12/2016 10:05 am : link
That rebuilt knee is a non starter for me. It's a ticking time bomb. It's a race to see what comes first another surgery or the arthritis.

Learn from the mistakes of the past. Sign players without major reconstructive surgeries on their resumes.
Yes  
G6Jett : 2/12/2016 10:07 am : link
He's a playmaker period point blank. Won't come cheap but will fit well with the Giants.
jack's a little bit overrated  
area junc : 2/12/2016 10:09 am : link
fantastic player but i don't think he's got the top 10 grade people keep granting him.

jaylon smith is by far the #1 LB in this draft and i'd take darron lee (ohio st.) over jack, too. although all are 1st rounders
The knee is definitely a core concern  
JonC : 2/12/2016 10:11 am : link
but the kid's got one helluva motor.
You aren't a playmaker if the orthopedic surgeon has you on his table  
Torrag : 2/12/2016 10:11 am : link
Smarten up. Sign healthy players with lower risk profiles.
RE: Pass  
LI NHB : 2/12/2016 10:16 am : link
In comment 12811962 Torrag said:
Quote:
That rebuilt knee is a non starter for me. It's a ticking time bomb. It's a race to see what comes first another surgery or the arthritis.


He's still 25 years old and his injuries have largely been fractures as opposed to ligament damage. I am no MD, but have to assume bone issues are far less susceptible to re-injury than ligament reconstruction.
Some rebuilt knees can be stronger than the "original," assuming  
Big Blue '56 : 2/12/2016 10:19 am : link
there's no significant arthritis..

Not saying that's the case with DT, but we need to be careful when we make statements if we don't know the full extent of a medical condition as snakebitten as we've been..And yes I understand and usually endorse the caution card in this arena
ACL  
HoustonGiant : 2/12/2016 10:21 am : link
Is the worst knee injury. HOWEVER, with current surgical techniques you can actually lower the chances of recurrent injury (widening the femoral notch). Overall strength of repair is ~85% at 6 months and continues to improve (no good studies yet on strength later).

Fractures, are actually far more likely to heal, and can heal to 100% of their pre-fracture bone strength.

.  
arcarsenal : 2/12/2016 10:28 am : link
Brandon Marshall is the Denver LBer I really want, I believe he's an RFA though so he'll stay in Denver for at least another year.
No need to be careful with blanket statements regarding injuries  
Torrag : 2/12/2016 10:28 am : link
It's simple. Don't over complicate it. Our struggles fielding a healthy roster in recent seasons is the overriding factor to consider.

If we haven't learned to err on the side of a cautious conservative approach to acquiring and paying players with significant injury histories we deserve what we get. Players on IR and in the training room. Caveat emptor...let the buyer beware.

so it's OK for any other team  
djm : 2/12/2016 10:35 am : link
including this year's super bowl winning team, to sign or utilize Trevathan but the Giants know better...

IF the guy checks out he checks out. He's probably no greater risk of getting hurt than any other player. If he is at higher risk, fine, but just because a player GOT hurt before doesn't mean he's more likely to get hurt again over any other player.

Are you absolutely certain Trevathan is the bigger risk than say a guy like Irvin or someone else?

The Panthers held on to Tommy Davis and were rewarded. They look smart. The Giants hold on to Beason and don't look so smart. It's all a gamble.
djm  
Torrag : 2/12/2016 10:38 am : link
Denver didn't pay Trevathan a premium to go out and sign him on the open market. He was a cost effective risk on his rookie deal for them.

That isn't what we're talking about here.
you say it's simple (torrag)  
djm : 2/12/2016 10:39 am : link
but it's not simple. It's anything but simple. It's probably the closest thing to impossible in all of pro sports yet fans like to believe otherwise. Predicting injuries or avoiding injury prone players is not an art. It's not a science. Outside of tweaking practice and workout habits and closely monitoring the details as well as you can the injury factor is in the hands of random luck--with very few exceptions. Find me any 24 year old star athlete and you can't predict where that dude will be 10 years from now. No one can.
RE: djm  
djm : 2/12/2016 10:42 am : link
In comment 12812042 Torrag said:
Quote:
Denver didn't pay Trevathan a premium to go out and sign him on the open market. He was a cost effective risk on his rookie deal for them.

That isn't what we're talking about here.


That's not really the point.

IF no one else is available to fill the MLB role this off-season and all the docs say the guy checks out--his medically repaired bits and pieces look great and the rest of his body is fine--are you going to begrudge the Giants if they sign him simply because the guy got hurt before? Does prior injury truly increase the likely-hood of future injury and if so by how much? DO you really know either way? I sure as fuck don't.
'That's not really the point'...  
Torrag : 2/12/2016 10:49 am : link
You're flat out wrong. It is the point. We've lost entire seasons to a plague of injuries the likes of which the franchise has never seen.

It can't be business as usual. Their has to be a shift in the organizations philosophy. Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Cap resources are a limited commodity. It's past time to set new parameters on what will disqualify a player from consideration.

If you have a player under contract and he's injured it's a different set of circumstances. You manage the situation within your economic commitment as best you can with the medical information to hand. This doesn't apply to acquiring new players in free agncy or the draft.
Good fit because Trevathan is talented and  
Jimmy Googs : 2/12/2016 10:49 am : link
we have very little at any LB position.

Worth the risk imo...
I love trevathon  
jtgiants : 2/12/2016 10:50 am : link
I'm in on signing him. I've read about his issues and see no reason not to sign him as long as our Dr's check him out
He's a kid that loves football and has a great motor and iq
Could be a good fit  
TMS : 2/12/2016 10:55 am : link
if we think he can make the switch quickly. Problem might be, he just won a SB and that will send his asking price through the roof. Then suppose he cannot make the switch ? Last thing we want to do, is get burned because of something like that, on a high ticket acquisition.
RE: jack's a little bit overrated  
superspynyg : 2/12/2016 11:24 am : link
In comment 12811968 area junc said:
Quote:
fantastic player but i don't think he's got the top 10 grade people keep granting him.

jaylon smith is by far the #1 LB in this draft and i'd take darron lee (ohio st.) over jack, too. although all are 1st rounders


Jack IS NOT OVERATED, he is the best cover Lber in the draft. He can do it all. Smith isgreat also. I would love to sign Danny and draft either Jack or Smith. But due to his injury Smith is a long shot.
Move Kennard inside  
KWALL2 : 2/12/2016 11:34 am : link
Sign Mark Barron for OLB and 3rd S. He's coming off a big year, healthy and only 26.
I had  
BlueManCrew : 2/12/2016 11:48 am : link
Such sweet delusions of Cooper Taylor gaining 20 pounds and becoming Urlacher 2.0. As of now I think Kennard has the best skill set for the Mike.
Torrag  
djm : 2/12/2016 12:09 pm : link
so you're saying to spend less resources on guys that got hurt and don't sign players that will get hurt.

GOod luck with that. There is no philosophical approach other than researching players and doing everything you can to ensure proper training and conditioning. The Giants have always performed due diligence they just got unlucky the last few years. Ok fine they drafted a guy like Kennard in round4--he's been injured in college. Denver did the same thing.

The Giants didn't try and sign injured players.
Trevathan would be at the top of my wish list  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 2/12/2016 12:11 pm : link
were it not for that knee injury.
djm have you conveniently forgotten Jon Beason's track record  
Torrag : 2/12/2016 12:18 pm : link
...they signed Schwartz and Baas and drafted Kennard with injury histories they thought they could manage...one would expect on the evaluations of their medical staff. Cooper Taylor had medical issues in college.

The list goes on and none of these guys have worked out.

It's time to alter the approach.
BBI  
Old Dirty Beckham : 2/12/2016 12:20 pm : link
Where if you have an injury or play offense we cant sign you because we only need injury free history defensive players.
Denver also signed a QB named manning with 5 neck surgeries under his belt  
djm : 2/12/2016 12:31 pm : link
They signed Demarcus Ware coming off injuries. They signed Wes Welker way back when he was 1-2 years removed from a brutal knee injury. Those moves all worked out for Denver. They took plenty of risks and those are just the ones I remember off the of my head. Denver got extremely lucky with Peyton and ware.

The Pats best WR is Edelman. He's always nicked. Their best player not named Brady is gronk. He's always nicked too. Same with some of their better defenders. They all take risks even if like you said they already have these guys on their roster. So what? They still hitched their wagon to that player because they have little to no choice.

Every player can get hurt at any time. And you me and the best GM going can't predict shit. So much luck is involved.
Panthers chose to keep Thomas Davis, coming off 3 ACL injuries  
jlukes : 2/12/2016 12:39 pm : link
over John Beason. That should have been a big enough flag on Beason.
djm after five seasons of cumulatively leading the league...  
Torrag : 2/12/2016 12:41 pm : link
...in man games lost to injury I've come to the conclusion there is more to this than random injury 'luck'. A more cautious and conservative approach to players with injury histories is warranted.

The release of Beason, Beatty and Schwartz en masse are an indication the Giants may be ready to take a different tack regarding injuries and projected rehabilitation etc. There is every medical indication Schwartz and Beatty would have been ready for training camp...but they are gone.
How many games did DT miss this year anyway?  
Bill L : 2/12/2016 12:47 pm : link
.
RE: djm have you conveniently forgotten Jon Beason's track record  
Kevin in Annapolis : 2/12/2016 12:56 pm : link
In comment 12812313 Torrag said:
Quote:
...they signed Schwartz and Baas ...


Neither Baas nor Schwartz had a major injury history prior to coming to NY.
Kevin fair point  
Torrag : 2/12/2016 1:07 pm : link
while both guys had been dinged up at times neither had what I'd consider a disqualifying injury history. Thx.
RE: BBI  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 2/12/2016 1:23 pm : link
In comment 12812319 Old Dirty Beckham said:
Quote:
Where if you have an injury or play offense we cant sign you because we only need injury free history defensive players.


In the case of Trevathan we are talking about a rather serious knee reconstruction.. I don't think it is unreasonable to be skeptical.

As I said Trevathan is a talent I like, but that is a major concern.
RE: djm have you conveniently forgotten Jon Beason's track record  
TMS : 2/12/2016 3:01 pm : link
In comment 12812313 Torrag said:
Quote:
...they signed Schwartz and Baas and drafted Kennard with injury histories they thought they could manage...one would expect on the evaluations of their medical staff. Cooper Taylor had medical issues in college.

The list goes on and none of these guys have worked out.

It's time to alter the approach.
Good post and right on the money. More due diligence is required on this team after our history in the draft and FA.
RE: Panthers chose to keep Thomas Davis, coming off 3 ACL injuries  
JonC : 2/12/2016 3:11 pm : link
In comment 12812359 jlukes said:
Quote:
over John Beason. That should have been a big enough flag on Beason.


Not entirely accurate. Once Keuchly was drafted, Beason wanted out to play MIKE elsewhere, and not have to learn a new OLB position.
When healthy, Beason was a plenty good MIKE for NYG  
JonC : 2/12/2016 3:11 pm : link
He just couldn't stay healthy.
with injury history here, wouldn't go near him  
micky : 2/12/2016 3:18 pm : link
Plus is he going to make it to open market also
I don't think knee injuries are as career  
Jersey55 : 2/12/2016 4:31 pm : link
threatening as they used to be..
Trevathan would def be an upgrade  
Chiller99.5 : 2/13/2016 5:43 pm : link
but he sure had the luxury of playing in back of a kick ass dline.Would he be as successful if this year he had Kuhn and Jenkins in front of him?
was really impressed with his speed before injury -- may have lost a  
tempit : 2/13/2016 6:36 pm : link
step. So the injury is a concern but not as much as will he be the same player in the Giants' Defense ?

Have no way of knowing.

I do like his play in the Denver Defense.
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