Got 10.5 million a year last offseason. Prince is way better then him & the salary cap has gone up.
Vinny Curry just got nearly 10 for 4 sacks per year. Antonio Cromartie just got 8 million a year. Prince is far better then Cromartie.
No CB in NFL history will look good when you have a terrible pass rush.
Who cares about the money spent? It's not coming out of your pocket. The Giants are pretty good with the cap. They can sign whoever they want every year. Doesn't always work out, but they were in on McCourty last year. Supposedly had interest in Suh.
We aren't going to find a better CB for similar money. Only two free agent CBs better then Prince. Josh Norman who is going to get franchised & Sean Smith who has a great pass rush in front of him & a top Safety next to him. Fix the pass rush & Prince/DRC will look like All-Pro's.
Rick, the point is, Prince can't stay on the field..I'd rather have Maxwell, even if Prince is better..
He is a fairly good all-around CB but strictly in terms of coverage skills he is probably top 25 at best. If he is your second CB --as he would be on Giants--you are in good shape. But he is not even remotely close to being a shurdown CB.
Yep, totally agree. My neighbor and I re-watched a few Giant games I had left on the DVR (Miami game and Jet game). Can't tell you how many times we saw him play soft coverages away from the LOS, and not against burner-types either. Minimal ball skills when its up in the air too.
Based purely on ability, I think they've underrated Prince. The past two years, there hasn't been much of a pass rush (last year especially), and that hasn't helped him any.
Regardless - with the exception of Hayward on that list, most of these guys were relatively healthy. I'm not saying that you want a guy who's never missed a game - but Prince has exactly 1 injury free campaign under his belt in 5 years. That's not encouraging.
DRC at around $7 mil per. Not sure how well it would go over if Prince, the #2 CB, would be making $3 mil more per year. I just don't see it. He's not worth that and I don't care how much the cap has increase in 2 years (since they signed DRC).
and really at this point i've seen enough of him. Always hurt, piss poor coverage, no speed. His "coverage" on brandon marshall's TD catch was fucking embarrassing.
injured for that kind of money, and I'd like to resign him. I also don't think he'll get that from anyone else, even though he is a CB in a passing league, and some teams have a ton to spend. As jcn56 said, if he gets that amount, then FA has really gone crazy. In any event, the Giants aren't giving him that money. I'd start in the $6-$7M range, which would never be enough.
will get somewhere between his 6.whatever he got in 2015 and the 10 million that he wants. Fuck him. He doesnt like the G Men he can go sniff the market and go to a shit team. He hasn't exactly distinguished himself as out-earning his salary. Might as well pay a more proven player like Leon Hall 10 million because he has actually shown his ability on the field,
On a side note, is Brandon Carr the most overpaid CB in the league?
Is better spent on the pass rush. We've won 2 SB recently with an above average to great pass rush, and good, not great secondary play.
We sign DRC and pair him with Price a few yrs ago, but then the pass rush goes to hell and the defense is less effective.
* I'm not saying that's the only reason, as the last few years on defense have been a dumpster fire... but, I feel the pass rush is more important than coverage ability, and IMO we should spend more $$ there instead of the secondary.
absolutely agree with you about the pass rush, it won't matter who we add if we don't fix the no pass rush problem...
But neither of us likely to get it, in a straight contract anyway.
He's at 7 now I think. Start at 6, easy incentive to 7,then games played to 8.75,max to 9.5,yr 1,add .5M base y2.
How about nothing...zero. Prince is the poster child Â
Here's the dilemma. Does JR not resign another 1st round pick or do we stay away from injured players?
The latter needs to be addressed; we need to stay away from players who possess an injury history. Prince wants $10 Mil???????
Money should be spent in free agency (and we have as much in cap money as I can remember for 2016) as JR should focus on signing quality pass rushers! So goodbye Prince, goodbye JPP (will never be the same pass rusher as he was back in 2011), and goodbye Ayers (unless we can get him on the cheap.
We need to start anew and rebuild the pass rush; then we can worry about the CB position opposite DRC.
but he isnt worth 10 mil per offer him cromartie money around the 8 mill per over 4-5 years.
they still need a CB within the first 3 picks even if they keep prince with more and more teams running 3 headed WR packages you need the CB to deal with that and hosley is clearly done with the team,mcbride can handle the slot corner position cromartie starts on one side with prince's injury history and cromartie has been banged up and missed games too they need another starting calibre CB and that can only come from the draft unless you blow up the cap space
they will need that cap space to find a starting FS,another DT to replace jenkins and a TE they are alot of decent FA TE this year they need to find a long term solution for what has been a gaping hole in the offence since boss and ballard left,and improve the OL they still need another OG and some better backups the cap space sounds alot but they need alot of upgrades that wont be cheap too
signs a deal that pays him almost $8 million annually what do you expect.
Some of you are funny. You want the Giants to improve but you want them to penny pinch to do so. That's not how it works. The system is designed for veterans to get paid on their second contract. If you want in prime players who are good you have to pay. It is what it is.
The Giants will have to pay to pay. That's the whole fucking point of having cap space.
No reason to penny pinch but he's not worth anything more to me than a the Vet minimum when you are incapable of playing most of the time he's not a guy you even make an offer too. His ability is easily starter level but you don't pay a guy who has proven he's going to miss games.
There are currently 18 CB making over 8m per year some better, some not
The guy most like him is Jimmy Smith. He has missed 17 games in the same span. Balt gave him a 4 yr 41m extension. I do not think Smith is any better and also think Balt gave him too much.
I do not see anything wrong with Prince getting 4-32-35 with 1/2 guaranteed
Some of you guys who don't even think he's worth 5M per need to seriously reassess your perception of the CB market right now because you're not in the right ballpark.
wrong with offering $7 mil a year with incentives up to 10 if he plays a full season..That's fair for both sides imo...If not, fluck him, we'll find someone else whose healthy to reasonably healthy
What I do have a problem with are the quotes/stories that seem to indicate he'd prefer to get out of town.
I also have been a little disappointed in the lack of leadership. He's not a "character issue" guy, obviously, but I've never gotten the impression that he's a particularly positive voice in the locker room.
Now, to the extent that my impressions are a bi-product of an unfair media portrayal, i can't say. I do acknowledge that possibility.
Leon Hall $39/$9.7/$14
Vontae Davis $36/$9.0/$15
Chris Harris $42/$8.5/$10
Antonio Cromartie $32/$8.0/$7.0
Jonathan Joseph $22/$7.3/$11.5
Cortez Allen $24.6/$6.2/$6.8
Corey Graham $16/$4.0/$5.5
Some pretty decent players on this list imo. I think Prince is somewhere at the bottom of this range though in comparison to value.
Losing Prince would make it harder for the Giants to reach the Â
playoffs next season. These days your third corner is almost as important as the first two, and I don't think we want to rely on Wade and Hosley, although Eric did write that Hosley had his best season in 2015.
Not enough premium draft picks to cover corner, safety, DL, WR, and the forgotten position of linebacker. And it's likely that at least one of those premium picks will be a dud.
Whoever signs Prince will be gambling on his ability to stay on the field. At least his last two injuries were soft tissue injuries, I think, involving torn muscles.
In the Parcells era LT and Carson and Bavaro and Burt would probably have played through those injuries, but of course it's different for a CB.
I think it's reasonable to assume that if Prince signs elsewhere the Giants are going to sign an FA CB to replace him. So.. it's not like Trevin Wade is going to be starting on the opposite side of DRC if Prince re-locates.
some do not want to pay Prince, but thought it was OK to pay Schwartz and Beason very well . Both had worse injury histories than Prince did. Prince is a young improving DB that we will have big trouble replacing. Just like we had big trouble replacing Linval Joseph. Who when paired with Hankins had our run game in the top ten. Our defense is at the bottom of the league, we have money to spend. Seems we are harder on our home grown players here, than other teams discards.
Well, Eric didn't say he was ready to be All-Pro, Â
just that he might do as 3rd or 4th corner. But 3rd corner is still an important player.
"In 2015, Jayron Hosley had his most productive campaign since his rookie season. He played in 14 games, starting six times when injuries sidelined the starting outside cornerbacks. However, Hosley’s playing time significantly decreased towards the end of the year, with the Giants making him a healthy inactive scratch twice in December."
wrong with offering $7 mil a year with incentives up to 10 if he plays a full season..That's fair for both sides imo...If not, fluck him, we'll find someone else whose healthy to reasonably healthy
Up to 7, incentive based - sure thing. My main concern with Prince is that he's not going to be able to stay healthy, and that we'll be looking for a replacement. If the Giants can find a way to mitigate the risk of him not holding up and minimize the dead cap space of cutting him, I'll all for it.
Somehow, I think the market will favor PA, though, and that means it's time to move on.
I'd rather get two guys who aren't as good but who have a better record for durability than keep Prince for what he might end up costing (upwards of $10M/yr).
more than any asset, even as a reserve CB. He is basically tied as the 53th most valuable player on the team with unfortunately too many others, hence his healthy scratches.
The question of this thread is Prince who actually, unlike Hosley, is an important decision for this offseason. But must be put into perspective as to how much value he truly does provide. If he can be locked up for something between $6-7M per with not a ridiculous guarantee but enough of active-playing incentives then I would say fine. If it takes more then we are wasting money.
some do not want to pay Prince, but thought it was OK to pay Schwartz and Beason very well . Both had worse injury histories than Prince did. Prince is a young improving DB that we will have big trouble replacing. Just like we had big trouble replacing Linval Joseph. Who when paired with Hankins had our run game in the top ten. Our defense is at the bottom of the league, we have money to spend. Seems we are harder on our home grown players here, than other teams discards.
Comparing Prince's contribution to the team to Linval Joseph's is fooking hilarious. Who writes your material? Joseph was an anchor and what I call bus driver, not passenger, during a string of great D for a championship run. Prince's presence has coincided with the Giants being one of the worst Ds in league history - particularly pass D.
And Reese should pay Prince 10 per when he wouldn't give Linval 6.5?
All of a sudden, revisionist history has him at Suh Jr.
He was a good player who had an average year in the first year of his contract in Minny, nobody was crying then. He did a bit better this season after the coaches worked with him on his stance and the talent around him picked up.
Prince is a better player, but unfortunately unable to stay healthy.
RE: What Linval Joseph were you people watching? Â
Vinny Curry just got nearly 10 for 4 sacks per year. Antonio Cromartie just got 8 million a year. Prince is far better then Cromartie.
No CB in NFL history will look good when you have a terrible pass rush.
Who cares about the money spent? It's not coming out of your pocket. The Giants are pretty good with the cap. They can sign whoever they want every year. Doesn't always work out, but they were in on McCourty last year. Supposedly had interest in Suh.
We aren't going to find a better CB for similar money. Only two free agent CBs better then Prince. Josh Norman who is going to get franchised & Sean Smith who has a great pass rush in front of him & a top Safety next to him. Fix the pass rush & Prince/DRC will look like All-Pro's.
Rick, the point is, Prince can't stay on the field..I'd rather have Maxwell, even if Prince is better..
Link - ( New Window )
Yep, totally agree. My neighbor and I re-watched a few Giant games I had left on the DVR (Miami game and Jet game). Can't tell you how many times we saw him play soft coverages away from the LOS, and not against burner-types either. Minimal ball skills when its up in the air too.
He is simply an average level starting CB.
That's my guy too
Based purely on ability, I think they've underrated Prince. The past two years, there hasn't been much of a pass rush (last year especially), and that hasn't helped him any.
Regardless - with the exception of Hayward on that list, most of these guys were relatively healthy. I'm not saying that you want a guy who's never missed a game - but Prince has exactly 1 injury free campaign under his belt in 5 years. That's not encouraging.
Considering we have Hankins who filled in quite nicely, not anywhere close to 'disaster'.
Quote:
along with the draft, that make or break teams. Hope we get it right this time. Letting Joseph walk was a disaster.
Considering we have Hankins who filled in quite nicely, not anywhere close to 'disaster'.
I couldn't agree more, the real disaster was having Kuhn over a third round pick.
On a side note, is Brandon Carr the most overpaid CB in the league?
No way in hell Prince gets 10mil/yr. I refuse to believe it lmao
Buh-Bye
We sign DRC and pair him with Price a few yrs ago, but then the pass rush goes to hell and the defense is less effective.
* I'm not saying that's the only reason, as the last few years on defense have been a dumpster fire... but, I feel the pass rush is more important than coverage ability, and IMO we should spend more $$ there instead of the secondary.
absolutely agree with you about the pass rush, it won't matter who we add if we don't fix the no pass rush problem...
He's at 7 now I think. Start at 6, easy incentive to 7,then games played to 8.75,max to 9.5,yr 1,add .5M base y2.
Talented but plays too soft. Matches up okay with average NFL talent but too easily beat versus better players. Seldom dominates anybody.
Oft-injured so never seems to get over hump in developing up the level that was expected.
Talented but plays too soft. Matches up okay with average NFL talent but too easily beat versus better players. Seldom dominates anybody.
Oft-injured so never seems to get over hump in developing up the level that was expected.
Drops too many easy INTs too, although the entire secondary played like they dunked their hands in oil before the game.
That makes two of us...adios Prince.
The latter needs to be addressed; we need to stay away from players who possess an injury history. Prince wants $10 Mil???????
Money should be spent in free agency (and we have as much in cap money as I can remember for 2016) as JR should focus on signing quality pass rushers! So goodbye Prince, goodbye JPP (will never be the same pass rusher as he was back in 2011), and goodbye Ayers (unless we can get him on the cheap.
We need to start anew and rebuild the pass rush; then we can worry about the CB position opposite DRC.
they still need a CB within the first 3 picks even if they keep prince with more and more teams running 3 headed WR packages you need the CB to deal with that and hosley is clearly done with the team,mcbride can handle the slot corner position cromartie starts on one side with prince's injury history and cromartie has been banged up and missed games too they need another starting calibre CB and that can only come from the draft unless you blow up the cap space
they will need that cap space to find a starting FS,another DT to replace jenkins and a TE they are alot of decent FA TE this year they need to find a long term solution for what has been a gaping hole in the offence since boss and ballard left,and improve the OL they still need another OG and some better backups the cap space sounds alot but they need alot of upgrades that wont be cheap too
Some of you are funny. You want the Giants to improve but you want them to penny pinch to do so. That's not how it works. The system is designed for veterans to get paid on their second contract. If you want in prime players who are good you have to pay. It is what it is.
The Giants will have to pay to pay. That's the whole fucking point of having cap space.
No reason to penny pinch but he's not worth anything more to me than a the Vet minimum when you are incapable of playing most of the time he's not a guy you even make an offer too. His ability is easily starter level but you don't pay a guy who has proven he's going to miss games.
(ducks...)
(ducks...)
(ducks...)
The guy most like him is Jimmy Smith. He has missed 17 games in the same span. Balt gave him a 4 yr 41m extension. I do not think Smith is any better and also think Balt gave him too much.
I do not see anything wrong with Prince getting 4-32-35 with 1/2 guaranteed
What I do have a problem with are the quotes/stories that seem to indicate he'd prefer to get out of town.
I also have been a little disappointed in the lack of leadership. He's not a "character issue" guy, obviously, but I've never gotten the impression that he's a particularly positive voice in the locker room.
Now, to the extent that my impressions are a bi-product of an unfair media portrayal, i can't say. I do acknowledge that possibility.
Leon Hall $39/$9.7/$14
Vontae Davis $36/$9.0/$15
Chris Harris $42/$8.5/$10
Antonio Cromartie $32/$8.0/$7.0
Jonathan Joseph $22/$7.3/$11.5
Cortez Allen $24.6/$6.2/$6.8
Corey Graham $16/$4.0/$5.5
Some pretty decent players on this list imo. I think Prince is somewhere at the bottom of this range though in comparison to value.
Not enough premium draft picks to cover corner, safety, DL, WR, and the forgotten position of linebacker. And it's likely that at least one of those premium picks will be a dud.
Whoever signs Prince will be gambling on his ability to stay on the field. At least his last two injuries were soft tissue injuries, I think, involving torn muscles.
In the Parcells era LT and Carson and Bavaro and Burt would probably have played through those injuries, but of course it's different for a CB.
Also, if we gave him 10 a yr and didnt resign JPP i would vomit
Is this some kind of joke? Hosley is basically a human bulls-eye when on the field and should never see training camp again.
"In 2015, Jayron Hosley had his most productive campaign since his rookie season. He played in 14 games, starting six times when injuries sidelined the starting outside cornerbacks. However, Hosley’s playing time significantly decreased towards the end of the year, with the Giants making him a healthy inactive scratch twice in December."
Up to 7, incentive based - sure thing. My main concern with Prince is that he's not going to be able to stay healthy, and that we'll be looking for a replacement. If the Giants can find a way to mitigate the risk of him not holding up and minimize the dead cap space of cutting him, I'll all for it.
Somehow, I think the market will favor PA, though, and that means it's time to move on.
I'd rather get two guys who aren't as good but who have a better record for durability than keep Prince for what he might end up costing (upwards of $10M/yr).
The question of this thread is Prince who actually, unlike Hosley, is an important decision for this offseason. But must be put into perspective as to how much value he truly does provide. If he can be locked up for something between $6-7M per with not a ridiculous guarantee but enough of active-playing incentives then I would say fine. If it takes more then we are wasting money.
Sadly I believe it will be the latter.
Comparing Prince's contribution to the team to Linval Joseph's is fooking hilarious. Who writes your material? Joseph was an anchor and what I call bus driver, not passenger, during a string of great D for a championship run. Prince's presence has coincided with the Giants being one of the worst Ds in league history - particularly pass D.
And Reese should pay Prince 10 per when he wouldn't give Linval 6.5?
Something is mnissing in your analysis, IMO.
He was a good player who had an average year in the first year of his contract in Minny, nobody was crying then. He did a bit better this season after the coaches worked with him on his stance and the talent around him picked up.
Prince is a better player, but unfortunately unable to stay healthy.