If he gets $10m/yr, then inflation has gone berserk.
I like Prince, but he's been hurt way too often to command megabucks. And I'm sure his last interviews here were the result of the Giants telling him the same, based on the direction they took with Beatty and Schwartz.
So Prince you played for the worse pass defense for the last two years what else can you tell me? Ummm I also get injured every year. So I figure I am worth about 10mill. LOL! Good luck on getting that figure.
There are only about 6 or 7 Decent/Above Avg CBs that are going Â
to be available in free Agency this year. Prince is one of them, and there are more that 10 teams looking to improve the CB position. Pretty much all of them have money to spend
Prince is going to get $10 million/year and he's a pretty decent CB
to be available in free Agency this year. Prince is one of them, and there are more that 10 teams looking to improve the CB position. Pretty much all of them have money to spend
Prince is going to get $10 million/year and he's a pretty decent CB
Gidie - I don't want to knock PA's ability - it's his durability that has me thinking he's not going to cash in like you might think.
We keep hearing the refrain 'there's a lot of FA money' - but there's a reason there's a lot of FA money, teams don't all throw it around stupidly. Every year, there's a game of musical chairs, where FAs rush to be in the first wave of high priced FA acquisitions, then the rush dies down as the market settles in, and there are guys caught without chairs who sign for less than they anticipated.
IMO - Prince is going to be in that 2nd/3rd tier. And if he's not careful, he might end up in the 3rd tier, taking a shorter term and less lucrative deal just to prove that he can hold up to the rigors of a 16 game deal.
I hope for his sake I'm wrong - I like the guy, both as a player and as a person, but I don't think his record the past few years bodes well for him financially.
rate him as a #1 CB? The rate for the top 32 CBs ranges from $14M TO $5M. $10M would be about the 8th highest salary on face value.
My opinion is there are teams that will go in the $6-7M range for him, midpoint for a #1.
I like Prince. I'd like to keep him. But in the $5-6M range. Doubt it happens. Link - ( New Window )
We paid more than we would have liked for both Canty and Boley, but the market at the time dictated it..Would have preferred they were healthy enough to fulfill their contracts, but they were very integral in winning our SB in 2011(2012)..
So yes, Prince probably gets his 10 mill, but it's not going to be from us, imo..The Giants have to be looking at his injury history to date and the probability of it continuing moving forward..They'd be wise to pass regardless of his talent, imv..
RE: RE: There are only about 6 or 7 Decent/Above Avg CBs that are going Â
I don't think his record the past few years bodes well for him financially.
j ... when Prince has a Dline to help him out -- he's a lock down corner
I think it's true that DRC is a better corner -- but DRC had some much tougher seasons and was a little miscast right before before the Giants signed him -- in fact the fan base he played to pretty much cast him the way you are casting Prince -- Prince has had some really good seasons and some really, really good games against some of the best receivers in the business
I don't think his record the past few years bodes well for him financially.
j ... when Prince has a Dline to help him out -- he's a lock down corner
I think it's true that DRC is a better corner -- but DRC had some much tougher seasons and was a little miscast right before before the Giants signed him -- in fact the fan base he played to pretty much cast him the way you are casting Prince -- Prince has had some really good seasons and some really, really good games against some of the best receivers in the business
I would stop short of 'shutdown' corner - but he's very good. When he's out there.
He's played 16 games once in his career. He's been out there for 8 and 11 the last two. I'm not questioning his toughness, a torn pec is a torn pec. I'm questioning his durability - I don't think he can hold up to the rigors of an NFL season and play 16 games. He's only been able to do it once thus far, he's been injured the last two seasons, and he's only getting older.
Don't give this any credence. 100 percent not true. Pretty sure this guy stole and twisted my stuff. Just a coincidence he tweeted this after my post this AM?
And it does not say he's asking for $10M per year. It says that is what one league source predicted. Remember, cap is going up almost 11 percent each year. So a guy who made $8M/year in 2014 would get almost $10M now. Link - ( New Window )
Don't give this any credence. 100 percent not true. Pretty sure this guy stole and twisted my stuff. Just a coincidence he tweeted this after my post this AM?
And it does not say he's asking for $10M per year. It says that is what one league source predicted. Remember, cap is going up almost 11 percent each year. So a guy who made $8M/year in 2014 would get almost $10M now. Link - ( New Window )
Regardless, anywhere in that range will still prompt most of the responses on this thread, imo
What Prince is "looking for" is completely meaningless Â
signs a deal that pays him almost $8 million annually what do you expect.
Some of you are funny. You want the Giants to improve but you want them to penny pinch to do so. That's not how it works. The system is designed for veterans to get paid on their second contract. If you want in prime players who are good you have to pay. It is what it is.
The Giants will have to pay to pay. That's the whole fucking point of having cap space.
That's what Cromartie got, and Prince is better IMO. However, I'd try to make it a deal that's front loaded and wouldn't have a high cap hit if Prince was cut in the near future, as an insurance against his injury issues.
You guys undervalue Prince. We have money to spend...if we can keep him, we should (same goes with JPP - can't believe I saw someone say to give him the vet minimum).
The Giants are in the position to front load a couple of deals to make the optics and guarantees work for the player. I could give a shit less of "dollars" a year if in reality it's a 3-year 24M deal with window dressing to look like 5/50.
They will pay, just not to a often hurt not as good as he thinks he is corner. Drc is a far better player than prince. Time to move on to a cb like janoris Jenkins.
He is a fairly good all-around CB but strictly in terms of coverage skills he is probably top 25 at best. If he is your second CB --as he would be on Giants--you are in good shape. But he is not even remotely close to being a shurdown CB.
5 year 45 mill. Contracts are going up and he is one of the better corners out there. He will receive in this vicinty. You have to spend it on someone and you can structure the contract if you need to cut him at some point or because of injuries. if he isn't interested let him walk.
Don't give this any credence. 100 percent not true. Pretty sure this guy stole and twisted my stuff. Just a coincidence he tweeted this after my post this AM?
And it does not say he's asking for $10M per year. It says that is what one league source predicted. Remember, cap is going up almost 11 percent each year. So a guy who made $8M/year in 2014 would get almost $10M now. Link - ( New Window )
More people on this thread need to read this instead of cluelessly responding to the initial thread
rarely become free agents in the NFL,therefore you have to pay (over pay) for a CB thats above average when they become available.
The giants are actually in a good situation with their dbs if they keep amukamara, sign a decent guy to play nickel and go after a high value safety that can cover (i know, big ifs). But that would leave them with space in the draft to address the front 7.
undesirable due to his injury history - why is Alshon Jeffery so desirable?
The people who think we should overlook PA (like me) should have the same opinion of Jeffrey. AJ's better at his position, IMO, but he's also a bigger injury risk and will cost more money.
I hope a deal gets done, in the 7-8mil per yr range.
Giants cannot afford to have yet another top draft pick walk out.
This is what got this team in this mess.
RE: What I really want to know is --- if Prince is so Â
undesirable due to his injury history - why is Alshon Jeffery so desirable?
So obviously you want to keep him..I'd rather go after a less than equally talented CB(if necessary) that will see the field when needed..Iirc, even in his one season of "health" he was playing hurt(beyond the hurts all players go through)...We need to cut ties, sign a good and healthy(no injury history) CB and draft one high, imv
I'm looking for that kind of contract myself. He isn't as bad as Giants fans think and will get a decent contract elsewhere. With his injury history, relying on him as your other starting CB for 16 games is a poor choice. He would be an amazing third CB on any roster.
signs a deal that pays him almost $8 million annually what do you expect.
Some of you are funny. You want the Giants to improve but you want them to penny pinch to do so. That's not how it works. The system is designed for veterans to get paid on their second contract. If you want in prime players who are good you have to pay. It is what it is.
The Giants will have to pay to pay. That's the whole fucking point of having cap space.
Correct 100%.
Debate if you will whether he is a "good", "average", "Excellent" whatever, but lose the "only if it's the right contract" or an "incentive-laden deal" stuff.
very simply. Pay it or lose him just like Linval Joseph. Thats the game these days. All about the money. Most of these guy only last two contracts if that, and they know it. Think we can do better in FA cheaper, or draft someone (probably at #10) that is a better deal ? We need an improved defense this season or some jobs may be on the line for another losing record.
Is better spent on the pass rush. We've won 2 SB recently with an above average to great pass rush, and good, not great secondary play.
We sign DRC and pair him with Price a few yrs ago, but then the pass rush goes to hell and the defense is less effective.
* I'm not saying that's the only reason, as the last few years on defense have been a dumpster fire... but, I feel the pass rush is more important than coverage ability, and IMO we should spend more $$ there instead of the secondary.
Got 10.5 million a year last offseason. Prince is way better then him & the salary cap has gone up.
Vinny Curry just got nearly 10 for 4 sacks per year. Antonio Cromartie just got 8 million a year. Prince is far better then Cromartie.
No CB in NFL history will look good when you have a terrible pass rush.
Who cares about the money spent? It's not coming out of your pocket. The Giants are pretty good with the cap. They can sign whoever they want every year. Doesn't always work out, but they were in on McCourty last year. Supposedly had interest in Suh.
We aren't going to find a better CB for similar money. Only two free agent CBs better then Prince. Josh Norman who is going to get franchised & Sean Smith who has a great pass rush in front of him & a top Safety next to him. Fix the pass rush & Prince/DRC will look like All-Pro's.
Only two free agent CBs better then Prince. Josh Norman who is going to get franchised & Sean Smith who has a great pass rush in front of him & a top Safety next to him. Fix the pass rush & Prince/DRC will look like All-Pro's.
- actually there are at least 3 more CBs ranked higher than Prince - you'd have to include Trumaine Johnson, Casey Howard, and Janoris Jenkins.
Didn't he say he didn't want to be here? Even if not, to my eye he does not sell out on running plays, makes few impact plays and picks, and is always hurt.
I root for every draft pick but .....
It's hard to want him back.
Is better spent on the pass rush. We've won 2 SB recently with an above average to great pass rush, and good, not great secondary play.
We sign DRC and pair him with Price a few yrs ago, but then the pass rush goes to hell and the defense is less effective.
* I'm not saying that's the only reason, as the last few years on defense have been a dumpster fire... but, I feel the pass rush is more important than coverage ability, and IMO we should spend more $$ there instead of the secondary.
Agree. A great pass-rush makes the rest of the pass-D that much better. Give a decent QB all the time in the world to sit in the pocket and sooner or later someone will open up; even against the best CBs.
Got 10.5 million a year last offseason. Prince is way better then him & the salary cap has gone up.
Vinny Curry just got nearly 10 for 4 sacks per year. Antonio Cromartie just got 8 million a year. Prince is far better then Cromartie.
No CB in NFL history will look good when you have a terrible pass rush.
Who cares about the money spent? It's not coming out of your pocket. The Giants are pretty good with the cap. They can sign whoever they want every year. Doesn't always work out, but they were in on McCourty last year. Supposedly had interest in Suh.
We aren't going to find a better CB for similar money. Only two free agent CBs better then Prince. Josh Norman who is going to get franchised & Sean Smith who has a great pass rush in front of him & a top Safety next to him. Fix the pass rush & Prince/DRC will look like All-Pro's.
Rick, the point is, Prince can't stay on the field..I'd rather have Maxwell, even if Prince is better..
He is a fairly good all-around CB but strictly in terms of coverage skills he is probably top 25 at best. If he is your second CB --as he would be on Giants--you are in good shape. But he is not even remotely close to being a shurdown CB.
Yep, totally agree. My neighbor and I re-watched a few Giant games I had left on the DVR (Miami game and Jet game). Can't tell you how many times we saw him play soft coverages away from the LOS, and not against burner-types either. Minimal ball skills when its up in the air too.
Based purely on ability, I think they've underrated Prince. The past two years, there hasn't been much of a pass rush (last year especially), and that hasn't helped him any.
Regardless - with the exception of Hayward on that list, most of these guys were relatively healthy. I'm not saying that you want a guy who's never missed a game - but Prince has exactly 1 injury free campaign under his belt in 5 years. That's not encouraging.
DRC at around $7 mil per. Not sure how well it would go over if Prince, the #2 CB, would be making $3 mil more per year. I just don't see it. He's not worth that and I don't care how much the cap has increase in 2 years (since they signed DRC).
and really at this point i've seen enough of him. Always hurt, piss poor coverage, no speed. His "coverage" on brandon marshall's TD catch was fucking embarrassing.
injured for that kind of money, and I'd like to resign him. I also don't think he'll get that from anyone else, even though he is a CB in a passing league, and some teams have a ton to spend. As jcn56 said, if he gets that amount, then FA has really gone crazy. In any event, the Giants aren't giving him that money. I'd start in the $6-$7M range, which would never be enough.
will get somewhere between his 6.whatever he got in 2015 and the 10 million that he wants. Fuck him. He doesnt like the G Men he can go sniff the market and go to a shit team. He hasn't exactly distinguished himself as out-earning his salary. Might as well pay a more proven player like Leon Hall 10 million because he has actually shown his ability on the field,
On a side note, is Brandon Carr the most overpaid CB in the league?
Is better spent on the pass rush. We've won 2 SB recently with an above average to great pass rush, and good, not great secondary play.
We sign DRC and pair him with Price a few yrs ago, but then the pass rush goes to hell and the defense is less effective.
* I'm not saying that's the only reason, as the last few years on defense have been a dumpster fire... but, I feel the pass rush is more important than coverage ability, and IMO we should spend more $$ there instead of the secondary.
absolutely agree with you about the pass rush, it won't matter who we add if we don't fix the no pass rush problem...
But neither of us likely to get it, in a straight contract anyway.
He's at 7 now I think. Start at 6, easy incentive to 7,then games played to 8.75,max to 9.5,yr 1,add .5M base y2.
How about nothing...zero. Prince is the poster child Â
Here's the dilemma. Does JR not resign another 1st round pick or do we stay away from injured players?
The latter needs to be addressed; we need to stay away from players who possess an injury history. Prince wants $10 Mil???????
Money should be spent in free agency (and we have as much in cap money as I can remember for 2016) as JR should focus on signing quality pass rushers! So goodbye Prince, goodbye JPP (will never be the same pass rusher as he was back in 2011), and goodbye Ayers (unless we can get him on the cheap.
We need to start anew and rebuild the pass rush; then we can worry about the CB position opposite DRC.
but he isnt worth 10 mil per offer him cromartie money around the 8 mill per over 4-5 years.
they still need a CB within the first 3 picks even if they keep prince with more and more teams running 3 headed WR packages you need the CB to deal with that and hosley is clearly done with the team,mcbride can handle the slot corner position cromartie starts on one side with prince's injury history and cromartie has been banged up and missed games too they need another starting calibre CB and that can only come from the draft unless you blow up the cap space
they will need that cap space to find a starting FS,another DT to replace jenkins and a TE they are alot of decent FA TE this year they need to find a long term solution for what has been a gaping hole in the offence since boss and ballard left,and improve the OL they still need another OG and some better backups the cap space sounds alot but they need alot of upgrades that wont be cheap too
signs a deal that pays him almost $8 million annually what do you expect.
Some of you are funny. You want the Giants to improve but you want them to penny pinch to do so. That's not how it works. The system is designed for veterans to get paid on their second contract. If you want in prime players who are good you have to pay. It is what it is.
The Giants will have to pay to pay. That's the whole fucking point of having cap space.
No reason to penny pinch but he's not worth anything more to me than a the Vet minimum when you are incapable of playing most of the time he's not a guy you even make an offer too. His ability is easily starter level but you don't pay a guy who has proven he's going to miss games.
There are currently 18 CB making over 8m per year some better, some not
The guy most like him is Jimmy Smith. He has missed 17 games in the same span. Balt gave him a 4 yr 41m extension. I do not think Smith is any better and also think Balt gave him too much.
I do not see anything wrong with Prince getting 4-32-35 with 1/2 guaranteed
Some of you guys who don't even think he's worth 5M per need to seriously reassess your perception of the CB market right now because you're not in the right ballpark.
wrong with offering $7 mil a year with incentives up to 10 if he plays a full season..That's fair for both sides imo...If not, fluck him, we'll find someone else whose healthy to reasonably healthy
What I do have a problem with are the quotes/stories that seem to indicate he'd prefer to get out of town.
I also have been a little disappointed in the lack of leadership. He's not a "character issue" guy, obviously, but I've never gotten the impression that he's a particularly positive voice in the locker room.
Now, to the extent that my impressions are a bi-product of an unfair media portrayal, i can't say. I do acknowledge that possibility.
Leon Hall $39/$9.7/$14
Vontae Davis $36/$9.0/$15
Chris Harris $42/$8.5/$10
Antonio Cromartie $32/$8.0/$7.0
Jonathan Joseph $22/$7.3/$11.5
Cortez Allen $24.6/$6.2/$6.8
Corey Graham $16/$4.0/$5.5
Some pretty decent players on this list imo. I think Prince is somewhere at the bottom of this range though in comparison to value.
Losing Prince would make it harder for the Giants to reach the Â
playoffs next season. These days your third corner is almost as important as the first two, and I don't think we want to rely on Wade and Hosley, although Eric did write that Hosley had his best season in 2015.
Not enough premium draft picks to cover corner, safety, DL, WR, and the forgotten position of linebacker. And it's likely that at least one of those premium picks will be a dud.
Whoever signs Prince will be gambling on his ability to stay on the field. At least his last two injuries were soft tissue injuries, I think, involving torn muscles.
In the Parcells era LT and Carson and Bavaro and Burt would probably have played through those injuries, but of course it's different for a CB.
I think it's reasonable to assume that if Prince signs elsewhere the Giants are going to sign an FA CB to replace him. So.. it's not like Trevin Wade is going to be starting on the opposite side of DRC if Prince re-locates.
some do not want to pay Prince, but thought it was OK to pay Schwartz and Beason very well . Both had worse injury histories than Prince did. Prince is a young improving DB that we will have big trouble replacing. Just like we had big trouble replacing Linval Joseph. Who when paired with Hankins had our run game in the top ten. Our defense is at the bottom of the league, we have money to spend. Seems we are harder on our home grown players here, than other teams discards.
Well, Eric didn't say he was ready to be All-Pro, Â
just that he might do as 3rd or 4th corner. But 3rd corner is still an important player.
"In 2015, Jayron Hosley had his most productive campaign since his rookie season. He played in 14 games, starting six times when injuries sidelined the starting outside cornerbacks. However, Hosley’s playing time significantly decreased towards the end of the year, with the Giants making him a healthy inactive scratch twice in December."
wrong with offering $7 mil a year with incentives up to 10 if he plays a full season..That's fair for both sides imo...If not, fluck him, we'll find someone else whose healthy to reasonably healthy
Up to 7, incentive based - sure thing. My main concern with Prince is that he's not going to be able to stay healthy, and that we'll be looking for a replacement. If the Giants can find a way to mitigate the risk of him not holding up and minimize the dead cap space of cutting him, I'll all for it.
Somehow, I think the market will favor PA, though, and that means it's time to move on.
I'd rather get two guys who aren't as good but who have a better record for durability than keep Prince for what he might end up costing (upwards of $10M/yr).
more than any asset, even as a reserve CB. He is basically tied as the 53th most valuable player on the team with unfortunately too many others, hence his healthy scratches.
The question of this thread is Prince who actually, unlike Hosley, is an important decision for this offseason. But must be put into perspective as to how much value he truly does provide. If he can be locked up for something between $6-7M per with not a ridiculous guarantee but enough of active-playing incentives then I would say fine. If it takes more then we are wasting money.
some do not want to pay Prince, but thought it was OK to pay Schwartz and Beason very well . Both had worse injury histories than Prince did. Prince is a young improving DB that we will have big trouble replacing. Just like we had big trouble replacing Linval Joseph. Who when paired with Hankins had our run game in the top ten. Our defense is at the bottom of the league, we have money to spend. Seems we are harder on our home grown players here, than other teams discards.
Comparing Prince's contribution to the team to Linval Joseph's is fooking hilarious. Who writes your material? Joseph was an anchor and what I call bus driver, not passenger, during a string of great D for a championship run. Prince's presence has coincided with the Giants being one of the worst Ds in league history - particularly pass D.
And Reese should pay Prince 10 per when he wouldn't give Linval 6.5?
All of a sudden, revisionist history has him at Suh Jr.
He was a good player who had an average year in the first year of his contract in Minny, nobody was crying then. He did a bit better this season after the coaches worked with him on his stance and the talent around him picked up.
Prince is a better player, but unfortunately unable to stay healthy.
RE: What Linval Joseph were you people watching? Â
I like Prince, but he's been hurt way too often to command megabucks. And I'm sure his last interviews here were the result of the Giants telling him the same, based on the direction they took with Beatty and Schwartz.
Prince is going to get $10 million/year and he's a pretty decent CB
Prince is going to get $10 million/year and he's a pretty decent CB
Gidie - I don't want to knock PA's ability - it's his durability that has me thinking he's not going to cash in like you might think.
We keep hearing the refrain 'there's a lot of FA money' - but there's a reason there's a lot of FA money, teams don't all throw it around stupidly. Every year, there's a game of musical chairs, where FAs rush to be in the first wave of high priced FA acquisitions, then the rush dies down as the market settles in, and there are guys caught without chairs who sign for less than they anticipated.
IMO - Prince is going to be in that 2nd/3rd tier. And if he's not careful, he might end up in the 3rd tier, taking a shorter term and less lucrative deal just to prove that he can hold up to the rigors of a 16 game deal.
I hope for his sake I'm wrong - I like the guy, both as a player and as a person, but I don't think his record the past few years bodes well for him financially.
7 int's in 5 seasons? yeah, right....
My opinion is there are teams that will go in the $6-7M range for him, midpoint for a #1.
I like Prince. I'd like to keep him. But in the $5-6M range. Doubt it happens.
Link - ( New Window )
So yes, Prince probably gets his 10 mill, but it's not going to be from us, imo..The Giants have to be looking at his injury history to date and the probability of it continuing moving forward..They'd be wise to pass regardless of his talent, imv..
j ... when Prince has a Dline to help him out -- he's a lock down corner
I think it's true that DRC is a better corner -- but DRC had some much tougher seasons and was a little miscast right before before the Giants signed him -- in fact the fan base he played to pretty much cast him the way you are casting Prince -- Prince has had some really good seasons and some really, really good games against some of the best receivers in the business
Quote:
I don't think his record the past few years bodes well for him financially.
j ... when Prince has a Dline to help him out -- he's a lock down corner
I think it's true that DRC is a better corner -- but DRC had some much tougher seasons and was a little miscast right before before the Giants signed him -- in fact the fan base he played to pretty much cast him the way you are casting Prince -- Prince has had some really good seasons and some really, really good games against some of the best receivers in the business
I would stop short of 'shutdown' corner - but he's very good. When he's out there.
He's played 16 games once in his career. He's been out there for 8 and 11 the last two. I'm not questioning his toughness, a torn pec is a torn pec. I'm questioning his durability - I don't think he can hold up to the rigors of an NFL season and play 16 games. He's only been able to do it once thus far, he's been injured the last two seasons, and he's only getting older.
Don't give this any credence. 100 percent not true. Pretty sure this guy stole and twisted my stuff. Just a coincidence he tweeted this after my post this AM?
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2016/02/chances_cornerback_prince_amukamara_is_re-signed_g.html
And it does not say he's asking for $10M per year. It says that is what one league source predicted. Remember, cap is going up almost 11 percent each year. So a guy who made $8M/year in 2014 would get almost $10M now.
Link - ( New Window )
I think Allen was much better at dramatic summersaults over a pile than Prince. Both better athletes than football players IMO.
I guess he'll have to keep looking.
Bye.
Quote:
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Don't give this any credence. 100 percent not true. Pretty sure this guy stole and twisted my stuff. Just a coincidence he tweeted this after my post this AM?
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2016/02/chances_cornerback_prince_amukamara_is_re-signed_g.html
And it does not say he's asking for $10M per year. It says that is what one league source predicted. Remember, cap is going up almost 11 percent each year. So a guy who made $8M/year in 2014 would get almost $10M now. Link - ( New Window )
Regardless, anywhere in that range will still prompt most of the responses on this thread, imo
Some of you are funny. You want the Giants to improve but you want them to penny pinch to do so. That's not how it works. The system is designed for veterans to get paid on their second contract. If you want in prime players who are good you have to pay. It is what it is.
The Giants will have to pay to pay. That's the whole fucking point of having cap space.
You guys undervalue Prince. We have money to spend...if we can keep him, we should (same goes with JPP - can't believe I saw someone say to give him the vet minimum).
Quote:
.
Don't give this any credence. 100 percent not true. Pretty sure this guy stole and twisted my stuff. Just a coincidence he tweeted this after my post this AM?
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2016/02/chances_cornerback_prince_amukamara_is_re-signed_g.html
And it does not say he's asking for $10M per year. It says that is what one league source predicted. Remember, cap is going up almost 11 percent each year. So a guy who made $8M/year in 2014 would get almost $10M now. Link - ( New Window )
More people on this thread need to read this instead of cluelessly responding to the initial thread
The giants are actually in a good situation with their dbs if they keep amukamara, sign a decent guy to play nickel and go after a high value safety that can cover (i know, big ifs). But that would leave them with space in the draft to address the front 7.
Maxwell ruined the CB market last year......
The people who think we should overlook PA (like me) should have the same opinion of Jeffrey. AJ's better at his position, IMO, but he's also a bigger injury risk and will cost more money.
Giants cannot afford to have yet another top draft pick walk out.
This is what got this team in this mess.
So obviously you want to keep him..I'd rather go after a less than equally talented CB(if necessary) that will see the field when needed..Iirc, even in his one season of "health" he was playing hurt(beyond the hurts all players go through)...We need to cut ties, sign a good and healthy(no injury history) CB and draft one high, imv
Not in this case..Even some of the idiots who parrot that over and over recognize that he's an injury waiting to happen
...past two season 19 games played out of 32.
That's 59%.
59% of $10 Million = $5.9 Million per Year.
He may be worth that... maybe.
But I wouldn't budge a dime past $6 Million.
If he wants more, let the 59% man find it elsewhere..
E, we know, but the comments(many of them) are rather spot on imo, whether he signsfor 7-8 or 10 mill
Some of you are funny. You want the Giants to improve but you want them to penny pinch to do so. That's not how it works. The system is designed for veterans to get paid on their second contract. If you want in prime players who are good you have to pay. It is what it is.
The Giants will have to pay to pay. That's the whole fucking point of having cap space.
Debate if you will whether he is a "good", "average", "Excellent" whatever, but lose the "only if it's the right contract" or an "incentive-laden deal" stuff.
We sign DRC and pair him with Price a few yrs ago, but then the pass rush goes to hell and the defense is less effective.
* I'm not saying that's the only reason, as the last few years on defense have been a dumpster fire... but, I feel the pass rush is more important than coverage ability, and IMO we should spend more $$ there instead of the secondary.
Vinny Curry just got nearly 10 for 4 sacks per year. Antonio Cromartie just got 8 million a year. Prince is far better then Cromartie.
No CB in NFL history will look good when you have a terrible pass rush.
Who cares about the money spent? It's not coming out of your pocket. The Giants are pretty good with the cap. They can sign whoever they want every year. Doesn't always work out, but they were in on McCourty last year. Supposedly had interest in Suh.
We aren't going to find a better CB for similar money. Only two free agent CBs better then Prince. Josh Norman who is going to get franchised & Sean Smith who has a great pass rush in front of him & a top Safety next to him. Fix the pass rush & Prince/DRC will look like All-Pro's.
Prince has not panned out as a # 1 pick. Too much money based on past performance. Giants would be paying for potential
I root for every draft pick but .....
It's hard to want him back.
We sign DRC and pair him with Price a few yrs ago, but then the pass rush goes to hell and the defense is less effective.
* I'm not saying that's the only reason, as the last few years on defense have been a dumpster fire... but, I feel the pass rush is more important than coverage ability, and IMO we should spend more $$ there instead of the secondary.
Vinny Curry just got nearly 10 for 4 sacks per year. Antonio Cromartie just got 8 million a year. Prince is far better then Cromartie.
No CB in NFL history will look good when you have a terrible pass rush.
Who cares about the money spent? It's not coming out of your pocket. The Giants are pretty good with the cap. They can sign whoever they want every year. Doesn't always work out, but they were in on McCourty last year. Supposedly had interest in Suh.
We aren't going to find a better CB for similar money. Only two free agent CBs better then Prince. Josh Norman who is going to get franchised & Sean Smith who has a great pass rush in front of him & a top Safety next to him. Fix the pass rush & Prince/DRC will look like All-Pro's.
Rick, the point is, Prince can't stay on the field..I'd rather have Maxwell, even if Prince is better..
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Yep, totally agree. My neighbor and I re-watched a few Giant games I had left on the DVR (Miami game and Jet game). Can't tell you how many times we saw him play soft coverages away from the LOS, and not against burner-types either. Minimal ball skills when its up in the air too.
He is simply an average level starting CB.
That's my guy too
Based purely on ability, I think they've underrated Prince. The past two years, there hasn't been much of a pass rush (last year especially), and that hasn't helped him any.
Regardless - with the exception of Hayward on that list, most of these guys were relatively healthy. I'm not saying that you want a guy who's never missed a game - but Prince has exactly 1 injury free campaign under his belt in 5 years. That's not encouraging.
Considering we have Hankins who filled in quite nicely, not anywhere close to 'disaster'.
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along with the draft, that make or break teams. Hope we get it right this time. Letting Joseph walk was a disaster.
Considering we have Hankins who filled in quite nicely, not anywhere close to 'disaster'.
I couldn't agree more, the real disaster was having Kuhn over a third round pick.
On a side note, is Brandon Carr the most overpaid CB in the league?
No way in hell Prince gets 10mil/yr. I refuse to believe it lmao
Buh-Bye
We sign DRC and pair him with Price a few yrs ago, but then the pass rush goes to hell and the defense is less effective.
* I'm not saying that's the only reason, as the last few years on defense have been a dumpster fire... but, I feel the pass rush is more important than coverage ability, and IMO we should spend more $$ there instead of the secondary.
absolutely agree with you about the pass rush, it won't matter who we add if we don't fix the no pass rush problem...
He's at 7 now I think. Start at 6, easy incentive to 7,then games played to 8.75,max to 9.5,yr 1,add .5M base y2.
Talented but plays too soft. Matches up okay with average NFL talent but too easily beat versus better players. Seldom dominates anybody.
Oft-injured so never seems to get over hump in developing up the level that was expected.
Talented but plays too soft. Matches up okay with average NFL talent but too easily beat versus better players. Seldom dominates anybody.
Oft-injured so never seems to get over hump in developing up the level that was expected.
Drops too many easy INTs too, although the entire secondary played like they dunked their hands in oil before the game.
That makes two of us...adios Prince.
The latter needs to be addressed; we need to stay away from players who possess an injury history. Prince wants $10 Mil???????
Money should be spent in free agency (and we have as much in cap money as I can remember for 2016) as JR should focus on signing quality pass rushers! So goodbye Prince, goodbye JPP (will never be the same pass rusher as he was back in 2011), and goodbye Ayers (unless we can get him on the cheap.
We need to start anew and rebuild the pass rush; then we can worry about the CB position opposite DRC.
they still need a CB within the first 3 picks even if they keep prince with more and more teams running 3 headed WR packages you need the CB to deal with that and hosley is clearly done with the team,mcbride can handle the slot corner position cromartie starts on one side with prince's injury history and cromartie has been banged up and missed games too they need another starting calibre CB and that can only come from the draft unless you blow up the cap space
they will need that cap space to find a starting FS,another DT to replace jenkins and a TE they are alot of decent FA TE this year they need to find a long term solution for what has been a gaping hole in the offence since boss and ballard left,and improve the OL they still need another OG and some better backups the cap space sounds alot but they need alot of upgrades that wont be cheap too
Some of you are funny. You want the Giants to improve but you want them to penny pinch to do so. That's not how it works. The system is designed for veterans to get paid on their second contract. If you want in prime players who are good you have to pay. It is what it is.
The Giants will have to pay to pay. That's the whole fucking point of having cap space.
No reason to penny pinch but he's not worth anything more to me than a the Vet minimum when you are incapable of playing most of the time he's not a guy you even make an offer too. His ability is easily starter level but you don't pay a guy who has proven he's going to miss games.
(ducks...)
(ducks...)
(ducks...)
The guy most like him is Jimmy Smith. He has missed 17 games in the same span. Balt gave him a 4 yr 41m extension. I do not think Smith is any better and also think Balt gave him too much.
I do not see anything wrong with Prince getting 4-32-35 with 1/2 guaranteed
What I do have a problem with are the quotes/stories that seem to indicate he'd prefer to get out of town.
I also have been a little disappointed in the lack of leadership. He's not a "character issue" guy, obviously, but I've never gotten the impression that he's a particularly positive voice in the locker room.
Now, to the extent that my impressions are a bi-product of an unfair media portrayal, i can't say. I do acknowledge that possibility.
Leon Hall $39/$9.7/$14
Vontae Davis $36/$9.0/$15
Chris Harris $42/$8.5/$10
Antonio Cromartie $32/$8.0/$7.0
Jonathan Joseph $22/$7.3/$11.5
Cortez Allen $24.6/$6.2/$6.8
Corey Graham $16/$4.0/$5.5
Some pretty decent players on this list imo. I think Prince is somewhere at the bottom of this range though in comparison to value.
Not enough premium draft picks to cover corner, safety, DL, WR, and the forgotten position of linebacker. And it's likely that at least one of those premium picks will be a dud.
Whoever signs Prince will be gambling on his ability to stay on the field. At least his last two injuries were soft tissue injuries, I think, involving torn muscles.
In the Parcells era LT and Carson and Bavaro and Burt would probably have played through those injuries, but of course it's different for a CB.
Also, if we gave him 10 a yr and didnt resign JPP i would vomit
Is this some kind of joke? Hosley is basically a human bulls-eye when on the field and should never see training camp again.
"In 2015, Jayron Hosley had his most productive campaign since his rookie season. He played in 14 games, starting six times when injuries sidelined the starting outside cornerbacks. However, Hosley’s playing time significantly decreased towards the end of the year, with the Giants making him a healthy inactive scratch twice in December."
Up to 7, incentive based - sure thing. My main concern with Prince is that he's not going to be able to stay healthy, and that we'll be looking for a replacement. If the Giants can find a way to mitigate the risk of him not holding up and minimize the dead cap space of cutting him, I'll all for it.
Somehow, I think the market will favor PA, though, and that means it's time to move on.
I'd rather get two guys who aren't as good but who have a better record for durability than keep Prince for what he might end up costing (upwards of $10M/yr).
The question of this thread is Prince who actually, unlike Hosley, is an important decision for this offseason. But must be put into perspective as to how much value he truly does provide. If he can be locked up for something between $6-7M per with not a ridiculous guarantee but enough of active-playing incentives then I would say fine. If it takes more then we are wasting money.
Sadly I believe it will be the latter.
Comparing Prince's contribution to the team to Linval Joseph's is fooking hilarious. Who writes your material? Joseph was an anchor and what I call bus driver, not passenger, during a string of great D for a championship run. Prince's presence has coincided with the Giants being one of the worst Ds in league history - particularly pass D.
And Reese should pay Prince 10 per when he wouldn't give Linval 6.5?
Something is mnissing in your analysis, IMO.
He was a good player who had an average year in the first year of his contract in Minny, nobody was crying then. He did a bit better this season after the coaches worked with him on his stance and the talent around him picked up.
Prince is a better player, but unfortunately unable to stay healthy.