I'm looking for that kind of contract myself. He isn't as bad as Giants fans think and will get a decent contract elsewhere. With his injury history, relying on him as your other starting CB for 16 games is a poor choice. He would be an amazing third CB on any roster.
signs a deal that pays him almost $8 million annually what do you expect.
Some of you are funny. You want the Giants to improve but you want them to penny pinch to do so. That's not how it works. The system is designed for veterans to get paid on their second contract. If you want in prime players who are good you have to pay. It is what it is.
The Giants will have to pay to pay. That's the whole fucking point of having cap space.
Correct 100%.
Debate if you will whether he is a "good", "average", "Excellent" whatever, but lose the "only if it's the right contract" or an "incentive-laden deal" stuff.
very simply. Pay it or lose him just like Linval Joseph. Thats the game these days. All about the money. Most of these guy only last two contracts if that, and they know it. Think we can do better in FA cheaper, or draft someone (probably at #10) that is a better deal ? We need an improved defense this season or some jobs may be on the line for another losing record.
Is better spent on the pass rush. We've won 2 SB recently with an above average to great pass rush, and good, not great secondary play.
We sign DRC and pair him with Price a few yrs ago, but then the pass rush goes to hell and the defense is less effective.
* I'm not saying that's the only reason, as the last few years on defense have been a dumpster fire... but, I feel the pass rush is more important than coverage ability, and IMO we should spend more $$ there instead of the secondary.
Got 10.5 million a year last offseason. Prince is way better then him & the salary cap has gone up.
Vinny Curry just got nearly 10 for 4 sacks per year. Antonio Cromartie just got 8 million a year. Prince is far better then Cromartie.
No CB in NFL history will look good when you have a terrible pass rush.
Who cares about the money spent? It's not coming out of your pocket. The Giants are pretty good with the cap. They can sign whoever they want every year. Doesn't always work out, but they were in on McCourty last year. Supposedly had interest in Suh.
We aren't going to find a better CB for similar money. Only two free agent CBs better then Prince. Josh Norman who is going to get franchised & Sean Smith who has a great pass rush in front of him & a top Safety next to him. Fix the pass rush & Prince/DRC will look like All-Pro's.
Only two free agent CBs better then Prince. Josh Norman who is going to get franchised & Sean Smith who has a great pass rush in front of him & a top Safety next to him. Fix the pass rush & Prince/DRC will look like All-Pro's.
- actually there are at least 3 more CBs ranked higher than Prince - you'd have to include Trumaine Johnson, Casey Howard, and Janoris Jenkins.
Didn't he say he didn't want to be here? Even if not, to my eye he does not sell out on running plays, makes few impact plays and picks, and is always hurt.
I root for every draft pick but .....
It's hard to want him back.
Is better spent on the pass rush. We've won 2 SB recently with an above average to great pass rush, and good, not great secondary play.
We sign DRC and pair him with Price a few yrs ago, but then the pass rush goes to hell and the defense is less effective.
* I'm not saying that's the only reason, as the last few years on defense have been a dumpster fire... but, I feel the pass rush is more important than coverage ability, and IMO we should spend more $$ there instead of the secondary.
Agree. A great pass-rush makes the rest of the pass-D that much better. Give a decent QB all the time in the world to sit in the pocket and sooner or later someone will open up; even against the best CBs.
Got 10.5 million a year last offseason. Prince is way better then him & the salary cap has gone up.
Vinny Curry just got nearly 10 for 4 sacks per year. Antonio Cromartie just got 8 million a year. Prince is far better then Cromartie.
No CB in NFL history will look good when you have a terrible pass rush.
Who cares about the money spent? It's not coming out of your pocket. The Giants are pretty good with the cap. They can sign whoever they want every year. Doesn't always work out, but they were in on McCourty last year. Supposedly had interest in Suh.
We aren't going to find a better CB for similar money. Only two free agent CBs better then Prince. Josh Norman who is going to get franchised & Sean Smith who has a great pass rush in front of him & a top Safety next to him. Fix the pass rush & Prince/DRC will look like All-Pro's.
Rick, the point is, Prince can't stay on the field..I'd rather have Maxwell, even if Prince is better..
He is a fairly good all-around CB but strictly in terms of coverage skills he is probably top 25 at best. If he is your second CB --as he would be on Giants--you are in good shape. But he is not even remotely close to being a shurdown CB.
Yep, totally agree. My neighbor and I re-watched a few Giant games I had left on the DVR (Miami game and Jet game). Can't tell you how many times we saw him play soft coverages away from the LOS, and not against burner-types either. Minimal ball skills when its up in the air too.
Based purely on ability, I think they've underrated Prince. The past two years, there hasn't been much of a pass rush (last year especially), and that hasn't helped him any.
Regardless - with the exception of Hayward on that list, most of these guys were relatively healthy. I'm not saying that you want a guy who's never missed a game - but Prince has exactly 1 injury free campaign under his belt in 5 years. That's not encouraging.
DRC at around $7 mil per. Not sure how well it would go over if Prince, the #2 CB, would be making $3 mil more per year. I just don't see it. He's not worth that and I don't care how much the cap has increase in 2 years (since they signed DRC).
and really at this point i've seen enough of him. Always hurt, piss poor coverage, no speed. His "coverage" on brandon marshall's TD catch was fucking embarrassing.
injured for that kind of money, and I'd like to resign him. I also don't think he'll get that from anyone else, even though he is a CB in a passing league, and some teams have a ton to spend. As jcn56 said, if he gets that amount, then FA has really gone crazy. In any event, the Giants aren't giving him that money. I'd start in the $6-$7M range, which would never be enough.
will get somewhere between his 6.whatever he got in 2015 and the 10 million that he wants. Fuck him. He doesnt like the G Men he can go sniff the market and go to a shit team. He hasn't exactly distinguished himself as out-earning his salary. Might as well pay a more proven player like Leon Hall 10 million because he has actually shown his ability on the field,
On a side note, is Brandon Carr the most overpaid CB in the league?
Is better spent on the pass rush. We've won 2 SB recently with an above average to great pass rush, and good, not great secondary play.
We sign DRC and pair him with Price a few yrs ago, but then the pass rush goes to hell and the defense is less effective.
* I'm not saying that's the only reason, as the last few years on defense have been a dumpster fire... but, I feel the pass rush is more important than coverage ability, and IMO we should spend more $$ there instead of the secondary.
absolutely agree with you about the pass rush, it won't matter who we add if we don't fix the no pass rush problem...
But neither of us likely to get it, in a straight contract anyway.
He's at 7 now I think. Start at 6, easy incentive to 7,then games played to 8.75,max to 9.5,yr 1,add .5M base y2.
How about nothing...zero. Prince is the poster child
Here's the dilemma. Does JR not resign another 1st round pick or do we stay away from injured players?
The latter needs to be addressed; we need to stay away from players who possess an injury history. Prince wants $10 Mil???????
Money should be spent in free agency (and we have as much in cap money as I can remember for 2016) as JR should focus on signing quality pass rushers! So goodbye Prince, goodbye JPP (will never be the same pass rusher as he was back in 2011), and goodbye Ayers (unless we can get him on the cheap.
We need to start anew and rebuild the pass rush; then we can worry about the CB position opposite DRC.
but he isnt worth 10 mil per offer him cromartie money around the 8 mill per over 4-5 years.
they still need a CB within the first 3 picks even if they keep prince with more and more teams running 3 headed WR packages you need the CB to deal with that and hosley is clearly done with the team,mcbride can handle the slot corner position cromartie starts on one side with prince's injury history and cromartie has been banged up and missed games too they need another starting calibre CB and that can only come from the draft unless you blow up the cap space
they will need that cap space to find a starting FS,another DT to replace jenkins and a TE they are alot of decent FA TE this year they need to find a long term solution for what has been a gaping hole in the offence since boss and ballard left,and improve the OL they still need another OG and some better backups the cap space sounds alot but they need alot of upgrades that wont be cheap too
signs a deal that pays him almost $8 million annually what do you expect.
Some of you are funny. You want the Giants to improve but you want them to penny pinch to do so. That's not how it works. The system is designed for veterans to get paid on their second contract. If you want in prime players who are good you have to pay. It is what it is.
The Giants will have to pay to pay. That's the whole fucking point of having cap space.
No reason to penny pinch but he's not worth anything more to me than a the Vet minimum when you are incapable of playing most of the time he's not a guy you even make an offer too. His ability is easily starter level but you don't pay a guy who has proven he's going to miss games.
There are currently 18 CB making over 8m per year some better, some not
The guy most like him is Jimmy Smith. He has missed 17 games in the same span. Balt gave him a 4 yr 41m extension. I do not think Smith is any better and also think Balt gave him too much.
I do not see anything wrong with Prince getting 4-32-35 with 1/2 guaranteed
Some of you guys who don't even think he's worth 5M per need to seriously reassess your perception of the CB market right now because you're not in the right ballpark.
wrong with offering $7 mil a year with incentives up to 10 if he plays a full season..That's fair for both sides imo...If not, fluck him, we'll find someone else whose healthy to reasonably healthy
What I do have a problem with are the quotes/stories that seem to indicate he'd prefer to get out of town.
I also have been a little disappointed in the lack of leadership. He's not a "character issue" guy, obviously, but I've never gotten the impression that he's a particularly positive voice in the locker room.
Now, to the extent that my impressions are a bi-product of an unfair media portrayal, i can't say. I do acknowledge that possibility.
Leon Hall $39/$9.7/$14
Vontae Davis $36/$9.0/$15
Chris Harris $42/$8.5/$10
Antonio Cromartie $32/$8.0/$7.0
Jonathan Joseph $22/$7.3/$11.5
Cortez Allen $24.6/$6.2/$6.8
Corey Graham $16/$4.0/$5.5
Some pretty decent players on this list imo. I think Prince is somewhere at the bottom of this range though in comparison to value.
Losing Prince would make it harder for the Giants to reach the
playoffs next season. These days your third corner is almost as important as the first two, and I don't think we want to rely on Wade and Hosley, although Eric did write that Hosley had his best season in 2015.
Not enough premium draft picks to cover corner, safety, DL, WR, and the forgotten position of linebacker. And it's likely that at least one of those premium picks will be a dud.
Whoever signs Prince will be gambling on his ability to stay on the field. At least his last two injuries were soft tissue injuries, I think, involving torn muscles.
In the Parcells era LT and Carson and Bavaro and Burt would probably have played through those injuries, but of course it's different for a CB.
E, we know, but the comments(many of them) are rather spot on imo, whether he signsfor 7-8 or 10 mill
Some of you are funny. You want the Giants to improve but you want them to penny pinch to do so. That's not how it works. The system is designed for veterans to get paid on their second contract. If you want in prime players who are good you have to pay. It is what it is.
The Giants will have to pay to pay. That's the whole fucking point of having cap space.
Debate if you will whether he is a "good", "average", "Excellent" whatever, but lose the "only if it's the right contract" or an "incentive-laden deal" stuff.
We sign DRC and pair him with Price a few yrs ago, but then the pass rush goes to hell and the defense is less effective.
* I'm not saying that's the only reason, as the last few years on defense have been a dumpster fire... but, I feel the pass rush is more important than coverage ability, and IMO we should spend more $$ there instead of the secondary.
Vinny Curry just got nearly 10 for 4 sacks per year. Antonio Cromartie just got 8 million a year. Prince is far better then Cromartie.
No CB in NFL history will look good when you have a terrible pass rush.
Who cares about the money spent? It's not coming out of your pocket. The Giants are pretty good with the cap. They can sign whoever they want every year. Doesn't always work out, but they were in on McCourty last year. Supposedly had interest in Suh.
We aren't going to find a better CB for similar money. Only two free agent CBs better then Prince. Josh Norman who is going to get franchised & Sean Smith who has a great pass rush in front of him & a top Safety next to him. Fix the pass rush & Prince/DRC will look like All-Pro's.
Prince has not panned out as a # 1 pick. Too much money based on past performance. Giants would be paying for potential
I root for every draft pick but .....
It's hard to want him back.
We sign DRC and pair him with Price a few yrs ago, but then the pass rush goes to hell and the defense is less effective.
* I'm not saying that's the only reason, as the last few years on defense have been a dumpster fire... but, I feel the pass rush is more important than coverage ability, and IMO we should spend more $$ there instead of the secondary.
Vinny Curry just got nearly 10 for 4 sacks per year. Antonio Cromartie just got 8 million a year. Prince is far better then Cromartie.
No CB in NFL history will look good when you have a terrible pass rush.
Who cares about the money spent? It's not coming out of your pocket. The Giants are pretty good with the cap. They can sign whoever they want every year. Doesn't always work out, but they were in on McCourty last year. Supposedly had interest in Suh.
We aren't going to find a better CB for similar money. Only two free agent CBs better then Prince. Josh Norman who is going to get franchised & Sean Smith who has a great pass rush in front of him & a top Safety next to him. Fix the pass rush & Prince/DRC will look like All-Pro's.
Rick, the point is, Prince can't stay on the field..I'd rather have Maxwell, even if Prince is better..
Link - ( New Window )
Yep, totally agree. My neighbor and I re-watched a few Giant games I had left on the DVR (Miami game and Jet game). Can't tell you how many times we saw him play soft coverages away from the LOS, and not against burner-types either. Minimal ball skills when its up in the air too.
He is simply an average level starting CB.
That's my guy too
Based purely on ability, I think they've underrated Prince. The past two years, there hasn't been much of a pass rush (last year especially), and that hasn't helped him any.
Regardless - with the exception of Hayward on that list, most of these guys were relatively healthy. I'm not saying that you want a guy who's never missed a game - but Prince has exactly 1 injury free campaign under his belt in 5 years. That's not encouraging.
Considering we have Hankins who filled in quite nicely, not anywhere close to 'disaster'.
Quote:
along with the draft, that make or break teams. Hope we get it right this time. Letting Joseph walk was a disaster.
Considering we have Hankins who filled in quite nicely, not anywhere close to 'disaster'.
I couldn't agree more, the real disaster was having Kuhn over a third round pick.
On a side note, is Brandon Carr the most overpaid CB in the league?
No way in hell Prince gets 10mil/yr. I refuse to believe it lmao
Buh-Bye
We sign DRC and pair him with Price a few yrs ago, but then the pass rush goes to hell and the defense is less effective.
* I'm not saying that's the only reason, as the last few years on defense have been a dumpster fire... but, I feel the pass rush is more important than coverage ability, and IMO we should spend more $$ there instead of the secondary.
absolutely agree with you about the pass rush, it won't matter who we add if we don't fix the no pass rush problem...
He's at 7 now I think. Start at 6, easy incentive to 7,then games played to 8.75,max to 9.5,yr 1,add .5M base y2.
Talented but plays too soft. Matches up okay with average NFL talent but too easily beat versus better players. Seldom dominates anybody.
Oft-injured so never seems to get over hump in developing up the level that was expected.
Talented but plays too soft. Matches up okay with average NFL talent but too easily beat versus better players. Seldom dominates anybody.
Oft-injured so never seems to get over hump in developing up the level that was expected.
Drops too many easy INTs too, although the entire secondary played like they dunked their hands in oil before the game.
That makes two of us...adios Prince.
The latter needs to be addressed; we need to stay away from players who possess an injury history. Prince wants $10 Mil???????
Money should be spent in free agency (and we have as much in cap money as I can remember for 2016) as JR should focus on signing quality pass rushers! So goodbye Prince, goodbye JPP (will never be the same pass rusher as he was back in 2011), and goodbye Ayers (unless we can get him on the cheap.
We need to start anew and rebuild the pass rush; then we can worry about the CB position opposite DRC.
they still need a CB within the first 3 picks even if they keep prince with more and more teams running 3 headed WR packages you need the CB to deal with that and hosley is clearly done with the team,mcbride can handle the slot corner position cromartie starts on one side with prince's injury history and cromartie has been banged up and missed games too they need another starting calibre CB and that can only come from the draft unless you blow up the cap space
they will need that cap space to find a starting FS,another DT to replace jenkins and a TE they are alot of decent FA TE this year they need to find a long term solution for what has been a gaping hole in the offence since boss and ballard left,and improve the OL they still need another OG and some better backups the cap space sounds alot but they need alot of upgrades that wont be cheap too
Some of you are funny. You want the Giants to improve but you want them to penny pinch to do so. That's not how it works. The system is designed for veterans to get paid on their second contract. If you want in prime players who are good you have to pay. It is what it is.
The Giants will have to pay to pay. That's the whole fucking point of having cap space.
No reason to penny pinch but he's not worth anything more to me than a the Vet minimum when you are incapable of playing most of the time he's not a guy you even make an offer too. His ability is easily starter level but you don't pay a guy who has proven he's going to miss games.
(ducks...)
(ducks...)
(ducks...)
The guy most like him is Jimmy Smith. He has missed 17 games in the same span. Balt gave him a 4 yr 41m extension. I do not think Smith is any better and also think Balt gave him too much.
I do not see anything wrong with Prince getting 4-32-35 with 1/2 guaranteed
What I do have a problem with are the quotes/stories that seem to indicate he'd prefer to get out of town.
I also have been a little disappointed in the lack of leadership. He's not a "character issue" guy, obviously, but I've never gotten the impression that he's a particularly positive voice in the locker room.
Now, to the extent that my impressions are a bi-product of an unfair media portrayal, i can't say. I do acknowledge that possibility.
Leon Hall $39/$9.7/$14
Vontae Davis $36/$9.0/$15
Chris Harris $42/$8.5/$10
Antonio Cromartie $32/$8.0/$7.0
Jonathan Joseph $22/$7.3/$11.5
Cortez Allen $24.6/$6.2/$6.8
Corey Graham $16/$4.0/$5.5
Some pretty decent players on this list imo. I think Prince is somewhere at the bottom of this range though in comparison to value.
Not enough premium draft picks to cover corner, safety, DL, WR, and the forgotten position of linebacker. And it's likely that at least one of those premium picks will be a dud.
Whoever signs Prince will be gambling on his ability to stay on the field. At least his last two injuries were soft tissue injuries, I think, involving torn muscles.
In the Parcells era LT and Carson and Bavaro and Burt would probably have played through those injuries, but of course it's different for a CB.