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NFT: REPORTED: Supreme Court Justice Scalia Found Dead

Anando : 2/13/2016 4:57 pm
Only a few places reporting it, but passing along the link...

Quote:
Associate Justice Antonin Scalia was found dead of apparent natural causes Saturday on a luxury resort in West Texas, federal officials said.
Scalia, 79, was a guest at the Cibolo Creek Ranch, a resort in the Big Bend region south of Marfa.
According to a report, Scalia arrived at the ranch on Friday and attended a private party with about 40 people. When he did not appear for breakfast, a person associated with the ranch went to his room and found a body



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The  
AcidTest : 2/13/2016 6:54 pm : link
election just got a lot more interesting. There is going to be a major fight over the Supreme Court now, especially since many of its most important decisions were by a 5-4 majority.

As far as Scalia is concerned, I agree with this:

Quote:
in some matters he was a "strict constructionist" but when it came to gun rights he conveniently overlooked the phrase "in a well regulated militia." I'm an advocate for gun rights but it is blatant hypocrisy to claim to be a strict constructionist and then ignore phrases that don't support your position.


He also supported the death penalty for a man who was eventually exonerated by DNA evidence: Link. And I support the death penalty.

He was also on the Court for nearly thirty years. I am against anyone holding that position for longer than fifteen years. The hallmark of democracy is the voluntary surrender of power.

And despite what his supporters say, Scalia was a dreadful expository writer. Some of his sentences were long enough to be paragraphs. Most of his opinions are just acerbic temper tantrums.

He was undoubtedly a major force on the Court, but screaming the loudest doesn't make you correct.
RIP  
buford : 2/13/2016 7:01 pm : link
and I've heard today that despite their opposing views on the bench, Ginsburg and Scalia were close outside of the court and socialized often. Both were opera fanatics and shared Queens roots. That's nice to hear.
Very sad  
Anakim : 2/13/2016 7:02 pm : link
I disagreed personally with pretty much everything he ever said or wrote, but you can't deny the man was a deeply knowledgable legal scholar. He was a genius.
RE: The  
Dunedin81 : 2/13/2016 7:04 pm : link
In comment 12813947 AcidTest said:
Quote:
election just got a lot more interesting. There is going to be a major fight over the Supreme Court now, especially since many of its most important decisions were by a 5-4 majority.

As far as Scalia is concerned, I agree with this:



Quote:


in some matters he was a "strict constructionist" but when it came to gun rights he conveniently overlooked the phrase "in a well regulated militia." I'm an advocate for gun rights but it is blatant hypocrisy to claim to be a strict constructionist and then ignore phrases that don't support your position.



He also supported the death penalty for a man who was eventually exonerated by DNA evidence: Link. And I support the death penalty.

He was also on the Court for nearly thirty years. I am against anyone holding that position for longer than fifteen years. The hallmark of democracy is the voluntary surrender of power.

And despite what his supporters say, Scalia was a dreadful expository writer. Some of his sentences were long enough to be paragraphs. Most of his opinions are just acerbic temper tantrums.

He was undoubtedly a major force on the Court, but screaming the loudest doesn't make you correct.


Except both of you citing the text of the 2A have misspoken. The qualifying clause, which is "A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State...", precedes "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms..." And there was nothing inconsistent about that particular part of Scalia's jurisprudence, as the original intent on the subject is almost universally understood (even by leftish originalists like Akhil Amar) to be more expansive than you're suggesting.
Which story dominates the news cycle?  
RobCarpenter : 2/13/2016 7:12 pm : link
1. Scalia's death and legacy or 2. Dems and Rs arguing over waiting for his replacement?
RE: RIP  
Anakim : 2/13/2016 7:13 pm : link
In comment 12813801 Mr. Nickels said:
Quote:
to the greatest Supreme Court Justice ever


In your opinion...
RE: RE: The  
AcidTest : 2/13/2016 7:16 pm : link
In comment 12813953 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
In comment 12813947 AcidTest said:


Quote:


election just got a lot more interesting. There is going to be a major fight over the Supreme Court now, especially since many of its most important decisions were by a 5-4 majority.

As far as Scalia is concerned, I agree with this:



Quote:


in some matters he was a "strict constructionist" but when it came to gun rights he conveniently overlooked the phrase "in a well regulated militia." I'm an advocate for gun rights but it is blatant hypocrisy to claim to be a strict constructionist and then ignore phrases that don't support your position.



He also supported the death penalty for a man who was eventually exonerated by DNA evidence: Link. And I support the death penalty.

He was also on the Court for nearly thirty years. I am against anyone holding that position for longer than fifteen years. The hallmark of democracy is the voluntary surrender of power.

And despite what his supporters say, Scalia was a dreadful expository writer. Some of his sentences were long enough to be paragraphs. Most of his opinions are just acerbic temper tantrums.

He was undoubtedly a major force on the Court, but screaming the loudest doesn't make you correct.



Except both of you citing the text of the 2A have misspoken. The qualifying clause, which is "A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State...", precedes "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms..." And there was nothing inconsistent about that particular part of Scalia's jurisprudence, as the original intent on the subject is almost universally understood (even by leftish originalists like Akhil Amar) to be more expansive than you're suggesting.


Except that Robert Bork, nobody's idea of a judicial leftist, and heralded by conservatives as a great constitutional scholar, thought otherwise:

Link

The Second Amendment was designed to allow states to defend themselves against a possible tyrannical national government. Now that the federal government has stealth bombers and nuclear weapons, it is hard to imagine what people would need to keep in the garage to serve that purpose.
-Judge Bork-

Link
The Second Amendment  
XBRONX : 2/13/2016 7:20 pm : link
has turned into a tragedy.
RE: Which story dominates the news cycle?  
Deej : 2/13/2016 7:21 pm : link
In comment 12813964 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
1. Scalia's death and legacy or 2. Dems and Rs arguing over waiting for his replacement?


Trump gets to pick.
Yeah, Sri would be the first Indian SCOTUS justice  
Anakim : 2/13/2016 7:21 pm : link
And the Senate unanimously confirmed him
Obama's appointment is going to be the story of 2016.  
SanFranNowNCGiantsFan : 2/13/2016 7:23 pm : link
This is going to be wild. If GOP doesn't give the person a chance, they are playing into the Democrats hand.
RE: The  
Anakim : 2/13/2016 7:23 pm : link
In comment 12813947 AcidTest said:
Quote:
election just got a lot more interesting. There is going to be a major fight over the Supreme Court now, especially since many of its most important decisions were by a 5-4 majority.

As far as Scalia is concerned, I agree with this:



Quote:


in some matters he was a "strict constructionist" but when it came to gun rights he conveniently overlooked the phrase "in a well regulated militia." I'm an advocate for gun rights but it is blatant hypocrisy to claim to be a strict constructionist and then ignore phrases that don't support your position.



He also supported the death penalty for a man who was eventually exonerated by DNA evidence: Link. And I support the death penalty.

He was also on the Court for nearly thirty years. I am against anyone holding that position for longer than fifteen years. The hallmark of democracy is the voluntary surrender of power.

And despite what his supporters say, Scalia was a dreadful expository writer. Some of his sentences were long enough to be paragraphs. Most of his opinions are just acerbic temper tantrums.

He was undoubtedly a major force on the Court, but screaming the loudest doesn't make you correct.


And J.P. Stevens called him out on it many times. J.P. Stevens' stance on the Second Amendment is factually the right way to approach Second Amendment issues.
I think the biggest blemishes on Scalia's record will be his stance  
Anakim : 2/13/2016 7:25 pm : link
towards privacy and his role in Bush v. Gore
The fact that individual or state defense against the feds...  
Dunedin81 : 2/13/2016 7:28 pm : link
might be ineffectual may mean that the amendment is anachronistic (it may not), it does not mean that the text means something now that it didn't then.
RE: RE: The  
Mike from SI : 2/13/2016 7:31 pm : link
In comment 12813980 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 12813947 AcidTest said:


Quote:


election just got a lot more interesting. There is going to be a major fight over the Supreme Court now, especially since many of its most important decisions were by a 5-4 majority.

As far as Scalia is concerned, I agree with this:



Quote:


in some matters he was a "strict constructionist" but when it came to gun rights he conveniently overlooked the phrase "in a well regulated militia." I'm an advocate for gun rights but it is blatant hypocrisy to claim to be a strict constructionist and then ignore phrases that don't support your position.



He also supported the death penalty for a man who was eventually exonerated by DNA evidence: Link. And I support the death penalty.

He was also on the Court for nearly thirty years. I am against anyone holding that position for longer than fifteen years. The hallmark of democracy is the voluntary surrender of power.

And despite what his supporters say, Scalia was a dreadful expository writer. Some of his sentences were long enough to be paragraphs. Most of his opinions are just acerbic temper tantrums.

He was undoubtedly a major force on the Court, but screaming the loudest doesn't make you correct.



And J.P. Stevens called him out on it many times. J.P. Stevens' stance on the Second Amendment is factually the right way to approach Second Amendment issues.


Explain to me what the "factually" right way to approach a legal issue is?
Mike  
Samiam : 2/13/2016 7:35 pm : link
If they agree with you
RE: RE: RE: The  
Anakim : 2/13/2016 7:36 pm : link
In comment 12813991 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
In comment 12813980 Anakim said:


Quote:


In comment 12813947 AcidTest said:


Quote:


election just got a lot more interesting. There is going to be a major fight over the Supreme Court now, especially since many of its most important decisions were by a 5-4 majority.

As far as Scalia is concerned, I agree with this:



Quote:


in some matters he was a "strict constructionist" but when it came to gun rights he conveniently overlooked the phrase "in a well regulated militia." I'm an advocate for gun rights but it is blatant hypocrisy to claim to be a strict constructionist and then ignore phrases that don't support your position.



He also supported the death penalty for a man who was eventually exonerated by DNA evidence: Link. And I support the death penalty.

He was also on the Court for nearly thirty years. I am against anyone holding that position for longer than fifteen years. The hallmark of democracy is the voluntary surrender of power.

And despite what his supporters say, Scalia was a dreadful expository writer. Some of his sentences were long enough to be paragraphs. Most of his opinions are just acerbic temper tantrums.

He was undoubtedly a major force on the Court, but screaming the loudest doesn't make you correct.



And J.P. Stevens called him out on it many times. J.P. Stevens' stance on the Second Amendment is factually the right way to approach Second Amendment issues.



Explain to me what the "factually" right way to approach a legal issue is?


If you want to know (which Scalia did) what the framers of the Constitution meant with the Second Amendment, look no further than his dissent in US. Heller.
*his as in Stevens  
Anakim : 2/13/2016 7:38 pm : link
.
RE: The fact that individual or state defense against the feds...  
AcidTest : 2/13/2016 7:38 pm : link
In comment 12813988 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
might be ineffectual may mean that the amendment is anachronistic (it may not), it does not mean that the text means something now that it didn't then.


Scalia was a textualist, the first rule of which is that when then text is clear, you stop. The text of the second amendment is clear. I support the right of people to own guns, subject to some limitations like universal background checks. But Bork was right.
RE: RE: The fact that individual or state defense against the feds...  
Dunedin81 : 2/13/2016 7:44 pm : link
In comment 12814000 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 12813988 Dunedin81 said:


Quote:


might be ineffectual may mean that the amendment is anachronistic (it may not), it does not mean that the text means something now that it didn't then.



Scalia was a textualist, the first rule of which is that when then text is clear, you stop. The text of the second amendment is clear. I support the right of people to own guns, subject to some limitations like universal background checks. But Bork was right.


It wasn't unambiguous, but textualists like Scalia have always sought to understand the text of the Constitution in the language in which it was written (for instance, "regulated" at the time was more properly understood to mean "trained").
Bork's opinion fails to accept that  
Bill in TN : 2/13/2016 7:44 pm : link
the most extreme case of gov't oppression/takeover would have to occur household to household.
A quick bit of history  
BlackLight : 2/13/2016 7:50 pm : link
The longest confirmation period for SCOTUS justice in American history is 125 days. Obama has 342 days left.

If McConnell wants to make some history, here's his shot.

It's too bad that Obama is a classy guy - I'd suggest he recess appoint himself to the SCOTUS and let Uncle Joe finish out his term. As long we're smashing historical precedent.
My guess is Obama appoints a moderate liberal.  
SanFranNowNCGiantsFan : 2/13/2016 7:59 pm : link
GOP goes insane. Plays to Hiilary's advantage.
RE: My guess is Obama appoints a moderate liberal.  
montanagiant : 2/13/2016 8:03 pm : link
In comment 12814027 SanFranNowNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
GOP goes insane. Plays to Hiilary's advantage.

The Dems definitely got handed an Ace in the hole with this.
RE: RE: RE: The fact that individual or state defense against the feds...  
AcidTest : 2/13/2016 8:04 pm : link
In comment 12814005 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
In comment 12814000 AcidTest said:


Quote:


In comment 12813988 Dunedin81 said:


Quote:


might be ineffectual may mean that the amendment is anachronistic (it may not), it does not mean that the text means something now that it didn't then.



Scalia was a textualist, the first rule of which is that when then text is clear, you stop. The text of the second amendment is clear. I support the right of people to own guns, subject to some limitations like universal background checks. But Bork was right.



It wasn't unambiguous, but textualists like Scalia have always sought to understand the text of the Constitution in the language in which it was written (for instance, "regulated" at the time was more properly understood to mean "trained").


Scalia was a little like Hugo Black. He enforced the confrontation clause, even when it was politically unpopular to do so. He also correctly concluded that the first amendment protects the right to desecrate the flag.

As far as the text of the second amendment is concerned, we will have to disagree. I think it's completely clear.

My biggest problem with Scalia is the same problem I have with nearly every Supreme Court justice, regardless of their ideology. And that is that they won't leave. Powell and Souter are the only justices I can think of who left after a reasonable tenure. Powell of course never wanted the job, and Souter wanted to go back to New Hampshire.
Scalia liked being a contrarian...  
Dunedin81 : 2/13/2016 8:16 pm : link
every now and again he liked to fuck with everyone and overturn a few decades worth of expectations, hence his confrontation clause jurisprudence. That's probably just my bitterness of having to wrestle with Melendez-Diaz, which is less a vindication of rights than the erection of an obstacle to prosecution. I've also never subscribed to that sort of First Amendment absolutism, though I respect its consistency.
And it already starts  
montanagiant : 2/13/2016 8:17 pm : link
Quote:
What is less than zero? The chances of Obama successfully appointing a Supreme Court Justice to replace Scalia? If anything this will put a full stop to all Obama judicial nominees going forward,” tweeted Conn Carroll, a spokesman for Judiciary Committee member Sen. Mike Lee.

And Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell also said Saturday that a replacement for Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia should not be selected until after the 2016 election by asserting that President Obama not no longer represents the American people.
RE: My guess is Obama appoints a moderate liberal.  
Mike in NY : 2/13/2016 8:17 pm : link
In comment 12814027 SanFranNowNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
GOP goes insane. Plays to Hiilary's advantage.


Take a look at Gregg Costa of the Fifth Circuit. Would make it difficult for Republicans especially the two Senators from Texas
Have no fear  
manh george : 2/13/2016 8:18 pm : link
Trump has already stated that he would nominate Ivanka.

Btw, as of the last detailed analysis I saw, the Dems were NOT a favorite to take back the Senate. In a significant number of the seats the Reps have to defend, they have the advantage of either being in a red state, or having a strong candidate--incumbent or otherwise. Of course, this event changes that a bit, as would nominations of Trump or Cruz on one side or Sanders on the other.

This was a January 11 analysis by an analyst who works for Real Clear Politics and is pretty neutral:




In another analysis, Dems were ahead in 44, Reps in 47, with 9 undecided.

http://www.270towin.com/2016-senate-election/

It's those nine that potentially become much more contentious with today's event.


Link - ( New Window )
this  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/13/2016 8:20 pm : link
thread is starting to turn political, which is a huge mistake for those who want it to remain.
This is the point at which this thread has  
Ash_3 : 2/13/2016 8:22 pm : link
turned political and not the obscene nonsense of the first few page or so?

Wow.
RE: This is the point at which this thread has  
Ash_3 : 2/13/2016 8:22 pm : link
In comment 12814063 Ash_3 said:
Quote:
turned political and not the obscene nonsense of the first few page or so?

Wow.


*pages
Notwithstanding Manh's post...  
Dunedin81 : 2/13/2016 8:25 pm : link
which was political but not partisan, the trend has been more toward jurisprudence than politics, which I think Nino would have appreciated.
Yeah i think the thread has finally become just good discussion  
montanagiant : 2/13/2016 8:27 pm : link
After some of the silliness on the earlier pages.

It's truly an interesting subject that crystallizes strategies from all sides. Nop one is crowing now, its just political theory being discussed
RE: Have no fear  
montanagiant : 2/13/2016 8:30 pm : link
In comment 12814057 manh george said:
Quote:
Trump has already stated that he would nominate Ivanka.

Btw, as of the last detailed analysis I saw, the Dems were NOT a favorite to take back the Senate. In a significant number of the seats the Reps have to defend, they have the advantage of either being in a red state, or having a strong candidate--incumbent or otherwise. Of course, this event changes that a bit, as would nominations of Trump or Cruz on one side or Sanders on the other.

This was a January 11 analysis by an analyst who works for Real Clear Politics and is pretty neutral:




In another analysis, Dems were ahead in 44, Reps in 47, with 9 undecided.

http://www.270towin.com/2016-senate-election/

It's those nine that potentially become much more contentious with today's event.
Link - ( New Window )

I think this situation becomes the wildcard that either keeps the status quo, or breaks it open. I agree with the analysis that shows that the senate and Congress were going to stay a Conservative majority, the way this plays out now may be determined by how both sides address the appointment, whoever it may be
Ash  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 2/13/2016 8:31 pm : link
Bold Ruler issued a warning earlier.
In President Obama's own words:  
Somnambulist : 2/13/2016 8:36 pm : link
We need somebody who's got the heart, the empathy, to recognize what it's like to be a young teenage mom. The empathy to understand what it's like to be poor, or African-American, or gay, or disabled, or old. And that's the criteria by which I'm going to be selecting my judges."

Legal scholarship...not so much.

RE: Ash  
Mad Mike : 2/13/2016 8:42 pm : link
In comment 12814076 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Bold Ruler issued a warning earlier.

I think Ash's point was that the warning has proven to be quite toothless.
IL, PA , and WI will flip  
RobCarpenter : 2/13/2016 8:56 pm : link
And NH, NV, and FL are tossups. I don't see how the Dems don't take the Senate back in a Presidential election year.
If I'm Obama  
GMenLTS : 2/13/2016 8:59 pm : link
I nominate a conservative that liberals will sign off on. Force the republicans' hand or let them confirm just how obstructionist they've been for his entire term.
So say the Republicans block his pick all year  
moespree : 2/13/2016 9:01 pm : link
Democrats win back the Senate in November, Hillary wins the election, and proves she wasn't just pathetically pandering for his support and actually does nominate Obama as the replacement. Will the heads explode that night, or will it take 24 hours?
there is 0.0 percent chance  
bluepepper : 2/13/2016 9:03 pm : link
that a successor is confirmed before the election. There will be lots of 4-4 cases this term and the first few months of the next one.
Obama doesn't want to be a SC Justice  
buford : 2/13/2016 9:04 pm : link
maybe Holder would be the nominee.
RE: So say the Republicans block his pick all year  
bluepepper : 2/13/2016 9:05 pm : link
Quote:
Democrats win back the Senate in November, Hillary wins the election, and proves she wasn't just pathetically pandering for his support and actually does nominate Obama as the replacement. Will the heads explode that night, or will it take 24 hours?

Ain't gonna happen. Obama doesn't want it. Why would he? Yes, SCOTUS is a great gig but Ex-POTUS is the greatest gig on the planet earth.
They don't have to "block" it  
glowrider : 2/13/2016 9:06 pm : link
They have every right to vote down a nominee.

Obama was careful with his words - said s candidate should have a fair chance at an up or down vote. Reps can give him that without being obstructionist.
RE: If I'm Obama  
Mike in NY : 2/13/2016 9:07 pm : link
In comment 12814107 GMenLTS said:
Quote:
I nominate a conservative that liberals will sign off on. Force the republicans' hand or let them confirm just how obstructionist they've been for his entire term.


I agree. See my post above. If it looks like his nominee will be to the right of Hillary or Sanders potential nomination and Trump is leading they may want to have Obama's nominee
RE: RE: So say the Republicans block his pick all year  
Mad Mike : 2/13/2016 9:07 pm : link
In comment 12814113 bluepepper said:
Quote:
Yes, SCOTUS is a great gig but Ex-POTUS is the greatest gig on the planet earth.

Pretty much.
I think its going to be Jane Kelly  
montanagiant : 2/13/2016 9:11 pm : link
She is sitting already on the US court of Appeals, went to School with Obama, and has some Republican support in the Midwest
RE: Nearly 30 years on the bench  
madgiantscow009 : 2/13/2016 9:14 pm : link
In comment 12813843 Gary from The East End said:
Quote:
That's impressive.



are you talking about Jon Beason?
RE: So say the Republicans block his pick all year  
Somnambulist : 2/13/2016 9:19 pm : link
In comment 12814108 moespree said:
Quote:
Democrats win back the Senate in November, Hillary wins the election, and proves she wasn't just pathetically pandering for his support and actually does nominate Obama as the replacement. Will the heads explode that night, or will it take 24 hours?


Brilliant move. Nominate someone to the Supreme Court who has ZERO scholarly publications in the law, and no record of ever contributing anything of value to jurisprudence.

But hey, he's so cool it doesn't matter, right?
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