Assuming there won't be a veteran brought in between now and the draft to start along the OL, NYG is going to enter the draft in need of another starter. Thankfully Pugh offers inside/outside versatility, preventing NYG from having to look strictly at OT or strictly at OG. I think we've discussed the OTs more than a fair amount to this point. NYG will like Tunsil and Stanley enough for #10 overall, but I don't think either will be available. Is Conklin worth that spot? An argument can be made. Decker or Spriggs? Possibly but I would lean towards that being too high for both of them.
The focus then needs to shift to the interior prospects. I will likely end up with 2 interior guys in my top 25 overall and one, if not both, will be there with their 2nd rounder. Alabama C Ryan Kelly and Kansas State OG Cody Whitehair.
Kelly is a center, yes. But he has the tools and skills to play guard and I have no doubt about that. He is an oversized center. He has the strength and lateral movement ability. He is a very smart and instinctive blocker. He is one of a few centers I've seen that could make an easy, seamless move to guard. Kelly was an elite blocker the past two years against some stiff competition.
Whitehair played LT for Kansas State. He doesn't have the size to play out there in the NFL although he could be moved there in emergency situations. He is one of my favorite OL in the class. Might finish with a grade right at or under the top spot. Easy footwork guy with the farm boy strength against elite power. He is such a dependable blocker. Always plays with balance Always under control Strong and violent hands.
I think both of these guys are week 1 starters at LG or RG, whichever NYG needs most. They may not be the sexy picks but NYG needs to pump resources in to that OL over and over if they want to be competitive. I have always been and will always be under the notion that it won't ever matter who you have running/passing/catching the ball without productive OL talent. NYG could make the case they really only have 3 worthwhile starters. That isn't good.
I mean, why not possibly move him to guard if they want.
I think you can get a starting RT in Round 2, you don't
have to look in the interior. Lets face it, they need a RT.
I don't want to see Newhouse at RT, they moved Pugh to
guard, because he is a better fit there. If the need arises
like last year, they can move him to tackle for a game or
two. A lot of people thought Pugh would be better as a guard,
including me.
They do. I downgraded him a tad because of it. But he has good power clean and squat numbers so his overall strength is in line with the average to above average marker.
.. I think they're in a good position to trade down in the 1st round to get an extra pick. They could trade down in the teens with a willing taker and draft Jack Conklin. I prefer him anyway over Stanley.... Conklin is a RT at the next level.
.. I think they're in a good position to trade down in the 1st round to get an extra pick. They could trade down in the teens with a willing taker and draft Jack Conklin. I prefer him anyway over Stanley.... Conklin is a RT at the next level.
Don't disagree with you, but...
Everyone wants to trade down for more picks. Everyone. It's an incredibly unlikely scenario.
And what makes you say Conklin is a RT? He has all the tools to be a LT. Better movement than Flowers for sure.
At 21 he started in the NFL as an almost afterthought 7th round developmental OL pick. According to TC at some point last year, Hart was grading out on a par with Jerry and Newhouse - two mid round draftees with considerable starting experience theoretically in the prime years of their careers.
Yes Jerry and Newhouse are mediocre or worse starters, but it's still impressive for a 21 year old with nothing special athletic skills to be on their level. If Hart has the will to achieve, he could well be the next version of David Diehl, and it's about time the Giants got that kinda career out of a late round Draft pick OL.
To some extent, I think the Giants are counting on Hart.
At 21 he started in the NFL as an almost afterthought 7th round developmental OL pick. According to TC at some point last year, Hart was grading out on a par with Jerry and Newhouse - two mid round draftees with considerable starting experience theoretically in the prime years of their careers.
Yes Jerry and Newhouse are mediocre or worse starters, but it's still impressive for a 21 year old with nothing special athletic skills to be on their level. If Hart has the will to achieve, he could well be the next version of David Diehl, and it's about time the Giants got that kinda career out of a late round Draft pick OL.
To some extent, I think the Giants are counting on Hart.
He lost his starting job in his sophomore season to Menelik Watson, so not sure this quote below from you is really true. Hope he does in fact work out as a cog in the Giants line, but i think like Sy says #6 or #7 might be a more reliable spot for him than a starter at this point.
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be a bad idea
.. I think they're in a good position to trade down in the 1st round to get an extra pick. They could trade down in the teens with a willing taker and draft Jack Conklin. I prefer him anyway over Stanley.... Conklin is a RT at the next level.
Don't disagree with you, but...
Everyone wants to trade down for more picks. Everyone. It's an incredibly unlikely scenario.
And what makes you say Conklin is a RT? He has all the tools to be a LT. Better movement than Flowers for sure.
Won't argue with u on if he's a LT as you would know .... I just assume he's not nearly the athlete....as Tunsil or Stanley, and due to his physicality in the run game , he'd fit great in the right side.
Not true. They ran behind him a ton in St. Louis and at Wisconsin.
I would suspect consistent with past years the Giants force a first round tackle in the draft. There is likely no chance of it happening in free agency anymore.
Here is what we know......the first two rounds will be wr and ot in some order proving once again the Giants draft for need. But I prey they don't take your advice on Pugh cause your way off.
NFL PLAYER COMPARISON - JAKE LONG - FA
When William Beatty went down last year I was afraid that the Giants would move first rounder Ereck Flowers to the blind side, and they did. It went badly, and I now wonder if they might have damaged his confidence to the point that he might not even be a right tackle this year. You hope when a young guy is thrown into the fire that he will at least get better as the season goes along, but it looked to me like he got worse. He injured his ankle multiple times, and I am sure that didn't help his play, but he may be a better fit inside long term. Now that they cut Beatty a new left tackle should be a priority, because whether he ends up at RT or inside at guard it's safe to say Flowers isn't a left tackle right now. The Giants offense is so much better when they run the ball and throw off play action. That makes a throwback mauler like Conklin a good fit. Conklin is a former walk on , self made man who earned a starting job as a red shirt freshman. He has a big frame, long arms, a relentless motor,, and proved at the combine he is a better athlete than a lot of teams think. He is a 3 year starter in a power 5 conference who has improved every year, and still did a very good job this year while playing hurt. He has the angry play through the whistle style that coaches love, and does it with fewer penalties than I expected. He would allow them to play Flowers elsewhere and improve 2 positions.
Link - ( New Window )
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10.NY GIANTS - JACK CONKLIN - OT - MICHIGAN ST.
NFL PLAYER COMPARISON - JAKE LONG - FA
When William Beatty went down last year I was afraid that the Giants would move first rounder Ereck Flowers to the blind side, and they did. It went badly, and I now wonder if they might have damaged his confidence to the point that he might not even be a right tackle this year. You hope when a young guy is thrown into the fire that he will at least get better as the season goes along, but it looked to me like he got worse. He injured his ankle multiple times, and I am sure that didn't help his play, but he may be a better fit inside long term. Now that they cut Beatty a new left tackle should be a priority, because whether he ends up at RT or inside at guard it's safe to say Flowers isn't a left tackle right now. The Giants offense is so much better when they run the ball and throw off play action. That makes a throwback mauler like Conklin a good fit. Conklin is a former walk on , self made man who earned a starting job as a red shirt freshman. He has a big frame, long arms, a relentless motor,, and proved at the combine he is a better athlete than a lot of teams think. He is a 3 year starter in a power 5 conference who has improved every year, and still did a very good job this year while playing hurt. He has the angry play through the whistle style that coaches love, and does it with fewer penalties than I expected. He would allow them to play Flowers elsewhere and improve 2 positions.
Link - ( New Window )
So, if you believe this, then the Giants have drafted two recent first round tackles (one top 10 pick, but both top 20 picks) who have become guards or are "best suited inside", and people think the pick this year at 10 should be another tackle.
makes complete sense only they're running out of guard spots for the failed tackles.
it's called throwing good money after bad.
Here is what YOU REALLY KNOW:
Bullshit.
But don't let that stop you living in self delusion.
I "prey" the Wizard grants you a brain once you bring him the witch's broomstick.
I would suspect consistent with past years the Giants force a first round tackle in the draft. There is likely no chance of it happening in free agency anymore.
Here is what we know......the first two rounds will be wr and ot in some order proving once again the Giants draft for need. But I prey they don't take your advice on Pugh cause your way off.
That's unfortunate you "stopped reading"
I do think Pugh is best suited for inside. However I rather have him playing an average RT with someone else playing a very good guard than Pugh playing a good guard and having a poor presence at RT in a scheme that needs quality pass protection.
And no...we do not know NYG will be using their first two picks on WR/OT.
Ideally Pugh is kept inside and NYG can grab a starter via the draft at OT. But with where they are at and what will be available, that is gojng to be tough without a trade.
1. Stanley at #10.
2. Conklin at #10.
3. Trade down into the mid twenties and take Spriggs or Ifedi.
4. Trade down into the mid twenties and take Beavers in the second round. Keep Newhouse as the veteran RT until Beavers is ready to start.
Options #1 and #3 aren’t likely. #4 is slightly more likely, but as much as I want to do so, it’s hard to trade down, and Reese has never done so. So option #2 seems like a real possibility.
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Sorry but once you mentioned Pugh at tackle I stopped reading. Pugh is a mediocre to sub par tackle but a very good guard. The Giants need a tackle more then anything and weakening guard by moving Pugh to tackle is just bonkers.
I would suspect consistent with past years the Giants force a first round tackle in the draft. There is likely no chance of it happening in free agency anymore.
Here is what we know......the first two rounds will be wr and ot in some order proving once again the Giants draft for need. But I prey they don't take your advice on Pugh cause your way off.
That's unfortunate you "stopped reading"
I do think Pugh is best suited for inside. However I rather have him playing an average RT with someone else playing a very good guard than Pugh playing a good guard and having a poor presence at RT in a scheme that needs quality pass protection.
And no...we do not know NYG will be using their first two picks on WR/OT.
Ideally Pugh is kept inside and NYG can grab a starter via the draft at OT. But with where they are at and what will be available, that is gojng to be tough without a trade.
Moving Pugh back and forth from LG to RT is not good for his development. Plus, if they were going to do that, they would have done so last year as soon as Beatty went down. It isn't in their plans.
Love how Spriggs can move in space. But he has a significant strength deficit and he has issues off the snap often. I think he needs more development than people thing. Somewhat similar to Beatty coming out.
Beavers I haven't had higher than 3rd/4th round yet. He isn't a good bender and he had a hard time moving guys at the Senior Bowl. I think both can be solid but won't do much in year 1
Don't want to speak for Sy, but there is nothing that I saw from Hart that indicated he had the feet to play RT in the NFL. It would be like putting John Jerry at RT
Well I talked about my main 2 guys In the original post. They will have 1st round grades on my board.
There aren't many options at OG for round 2. It gets deeper in round 3 and 4
Spriggs can be in that group too.
Behind them it's guys I would rather wait until round 3 earliest.
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be a bad idea
.. I think they're in a good position to trade down in the 1st round to get an extra pick. They could trade down in the teens with a willing taker and draft Jack Conklin. I prefer him anyway over Stanley.... Conklin is a RT at the next level.
Don't disagree with you, but...
Everyone wants to trade down for more picks. Everyone. It's an incredibly unlikely scenario.
And what makes you say Conklin is a RT? He has all the tools to be a LT. Better movement than Flowers for sure.
Why do you say it is highly unlikely? Is it possible for example one of the QB's could slip to 10?
Or secondly, I have heard separate times there are nine players in this draft a high tier above the rest. One of the players could slip.
We're in the sweet spot to trade down because more than likely one could slip or another team has "10 players" that are a higher tier, right?
I would suspect consistent with past years the Giants force a first round tackle in the draft. There is likely no chance of it happening in free agency anymore.
Here is what we know......the first two rounds will be wr and ot in some order proving once again the Giants draft for need. But I prey they don't take your advice on Pugh cause your way off.
When you are lousy and have a ton of holes and you are trying to win now because you feel you have a short window (Eli)of course you draft for need. You draft BPA that fills your need(s).
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Sorry but once you mentioned Pugh at tackle I stopped reading. Pugh is a mediocre to sub par tackle but a very good guard. The Giants need a tackle more then anything and weakening guard by moving Pugh to tackle is just bonkers.
I would suspect consistent with past years the Giants force a first round tackle in the draft. There is likely no chance of it happening in free agency anymore.
Here is what we know......the first two rounds will be wr and ot in some order proving once again the Giants draft for need. But I prey they don't take your advice on Pugh cause your way off.
That's unfortunate you "stopped reading"
I do think Pugh is best suited for inside. However I rather have him playing an average RT with someone else playing a very good guard than Pugh playing a good guard and having a poor presence at RT in a scheme that needs quality pass protection.
And no...we do not know NYG will be using their first two picks on WR/OT.
Ideally Pugh is kept inside and NYG can grab a starter via the draft at OT. But with where they are at and what will be available, that is gojng to be tough without a trade.
I'm with others. I don't like the idea of moving Pugh. Make things easier and draft an OT in the early rounds then you have a good guard sealed up and can get an average RT in the draft. No reason to continue to mess around with Pugh if you don't have to. You can win games with an average OT.
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Sorry but once you mentioned Pugh at tackle I stopped reading. Pugh is a mediocre to sub par tackle but a very good guard. The Giants need a tackle more then anything and weakening guard by moving Pugh to tackle is just bonkers.
I would suspect consistent with past years the Giants force a first round tackle in the draft. There is likely no chance of it happening in free agency anymore.
Here is what we know......the first two rounds will be wr and ot in some order proving once again the Giants draft for need. But I prey they don't take your advice on Pugh cause your way off.
When you are lousy and have a ton of holes and you are trying to win now because you feel you have a short window (Eli)of course you draft for need. You draft BPA that fills your need(s).
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In comment 12866701 dust_bowl said:
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Sorry but once you mentioned Pugh at tackle I stopped reading. Pugh is a mediocre to sub par tackle but a very good guard. The Giants need a tackle more then anything and weakening guard by moving Pugh to tackle is just bonkers.
I would suspect consistent with past years the Giants force a first round tackle in the draft. There is likely no chance of it happening in free agency anymore.
Here is what we know......the first two rounds will be wr and ot in some order proving once again the Giants draft for need. But I prey they don't take your advice on Pugh cause your way off.
That's unfortunate you "stopped reading"
I do think Pugh is best suited for inside. However I rather have him playing an average RT with someone else playing a very good guard than Pugh playing a good guard and having a poor presence at RT in a scheme that needs quality pass protection.
And no...we do not know NYG will be using their first two picks on WR/OT.
Ideally Pugh is kept inside and NYG can grab a starter via the draft at OT. But with where they are at and what will be available, that is gojng to be tough without a trade.
I'm with others. I don't like the idea of moving Pugh. Make things easier and draft an OT in the early rounds then you have a good guard sealed up and can get an average RT in the draft. No reason to continue to mess around with Pugh if you don't have to. You can win games with an average OT.
As for folks who think Flowers must stick on the left side I disagree. I think the coaches and front office will fit the BEST pieces they can to make things work. This is a business and the players know it too. Stanley is not a mauler as a run blocker and is more of a pure LT than Flowers. I think FLOWERS with a camp at RT, some reps at LT (injuries happen...), may end up being a super solid RT who run blocks like a demon. We need that on the right side. Badly.
Unless Floyd or Hargreaves are too good to ignore.. this sounds like an ideal situation to trade down.
Unless Floyd or Hargreaves are too good to ignore.. this sounds like an ideal situation to trade down.
Giants will have a BPA list, tiered and that is what they will go by REGARDLESS of position. If guys are so close it matters not in minds of scout and management, you take the NEED guy (2nd WR, ORT, FS).
I still think it ends up going OLT Stanley, WR Shephard and FS XXXXX in the first 3 rounds.
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and we trade down. I think that will signal we are going ORT in round one. Then we wait and address defense and WR later.
Unless Floyd or Hargreaves are too good to ignore.. this sounds like an ideal situation to trade down.
Yes, but I don't think Floyd is as high on our list as some think. I am reading a lot pro and con on Hargeaves as well. Would anyone be shocked if we took CB Apple with the #10? Not me...that is how these drafts work out.
Giants will have a BPA list, tiered and that is what they will go by REGARDLESS of position. If guys are so close it matters not in minds of scout and management, you take the NEED guy (2nd WR, ORT, FS).
I still think it ends up going OLT Stanley, WR Shephard and FS XXXXX in the first 3 rounds.
What I don't get and it seems so logical is why not pick up a S in FA? Nelson, or Abdullah, or maybe Jefferson becomes available. Now with the 3rd round we can possibly get a DE or LB and beef up our overall defensive front 7.
From Boylhart....
Tools rich. Someone will take him earlier than where I have him slotted for sure. Has a lot of development to do. Could need time to change his body a bit. I say 5th/6th. Will be taken 3rd/4th
McGovern or Dahl in the 4th seem like they could be really nice fits to compete at RG with Hart/Jerry (hopefully with a veteran RT in the fold).
McGovern or Dahl in the 4th seem like they could be really nice fits to compete at RG with Hart/Jerry (hopefully with a veteran RT in the fold).
I don't disagree at all. Several mid round guards can be a major help. You've named a few and I have a few more that I'll discuss when I come out with the OL preview in a few weeks.
The opposer approach however...for each of these names that you gave examples of, there are 4-5 guys that will be viewed as the same going in to the draft that do not work out
I think the first 2 picks are going to be some combination of WR/DL/DB. Historically that's where Reese has spent his top picks and it plays to the strengths of this draft. 3/4/5 will then likely be more filling needs picks unless they see a massive value from their board.