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Reading the draft tea leaves

Colin@gbn : 3/20/2016 9:30 am
Morning guys: Just 42 days until the draft; hard to believe where the time goes when one is having fun!

Have been working on updating our 2016 mock and without question trying to settle on a pick for the Giants is about as hard as it gets for any team in the opening round. Indeed, there are as many as 8-10 players that one can make the case they should, or at least could be the Giants pick with the 10th pick. Given our affinity for the Giants we have been scouring the pro day dispatches for any hint as to who they might be focusing in on given that in recent years one could usually follow where Jerry Reese and company were visiting and they’d pretty much lead one to the pick. So we are tad shocked when the first (and as far as we can tell so far only) campus workout that Reese has attended was that of Georgia OLB Leonard Floyd who wasn’t even on our ‘short list’ of the 8-10 cases that could be made.

Like most of the faithful our initial response was “NO WAY JOSE, NO CHANCE, NOT NOW, NOT EVER’ would the Giants be taking Floyd with the 10th pick. So what were they doing at Georgia? Thinking about a trade down? Blowing some smoke? Made some sense, but that’s simply not what the Giants do. What they do is go check out guys that their scouts have a high grade on. And, as perhaps the original ‘follow the money’ guy who lives by the old Yogi maxim that “one can see a lot by just watching” it is simply hard to get around the notion that the Giants were in Georgia looking at Floyd because they really like him as a prospect.

First, a couple of basic principles. Most importantly, this is not going to be a case of Reese ‘falling in love’ with the player as they like to say. The Giants have a process when it comes to the draft. Over the course of a season they will have at least one regional scout and two area scouts visit each of the major programs across the country at different times during the year who grade all the players. Then before the combine all the grades are aggregated and the Giants put together their preliminary board and identify the guys they want to focus in at the combine and at the pro days.

Second, the notion that on draft day the Giants sit around their war room checking off the players selected ahead of them and then take the ‘best player available’ left on the board when they get on the clock is a myth. Or at least it has been for the past 15-20 years. True, there been a couple of instances this century – Kiwi in 2007 and Prince in 2011 – when the Giants did take a BPA, but both were players they really didn’t expect to be there.

However, since at least 2000 the Giants have done one of two things with their top pick. Either they have targeted a particular position or issue: CB in 2001, DL in 2003, DB in 2006, WR in 2009, WR or OL in 2013 and OT in 2015. Or they have gone into the draft targeting a particular player they really liked: Shockey in 2002, Eli in 2004, Sinorice Moss in 2006 (nobody gets it right every year!), Kenny Phillips in 2008, JPP in 2010, David Wilson in 2012 and Justin Pugh in 2013. Sometimes those guys were at prime positions of need; other years not so much as they were just guys the Giants thought would be special players.

So where does the potential interest Floyd fit in that mix. Who knows for sure, but I suspect it may be close to the former. My guess is that the fact that the Giants are looking at an edge rusher suggest that maybe they ain’t done with the pass rush quite yet. It also suggests that the Giants plans to get back on the plus side this off-season may have less to do with filling a so-called shopping list of needs and more with reinventing the pass rush.

And it’s not hard to figure why. The Giants formula in both 2007 and 2011, for example, combined a solid passing attack and a dynamic pass rush. Plus one doesn’t have to look far past this year’s Super Bowl win by Denver which was powered almost exclusively by their pass rush. Indeed, in the end, one can make a pretty good case that the Giants could sign (or draft) all the Pro Bowl RTs, MLBs and free safeties in the world, but it will mean diddly squat if they can’t generate a pass rush. On the other hand, get back to rushing the passer and they could have Daffy Duck at FS, Donald (Duck or Trump – your choice) at MLB and Elmer Fudd at RT and still be solid contenders.

The other thing that people can probably take to the bank is that the team the Giants field in 2016 will not be your grandfather’s team. At least it won’t be Dylan, Cooper and Walker’s grandfather’s team. Indeed, there are pretty good odds that one is going to see a sea-change in the way the Giants try and win games this fall. The past few years under Tom Coughlin, for example, the basic philosophy was essentially very conservative: don’t turn the ball over on offense; don’t give up the big-play on defense; and get the game into the 4th quarter where you let your QB do his thing then.

In contrast, the front office has wanted a much aggressive approach on both sides of the ball. On offense that means spreading the field, creating mismatches and generating big plays off those mismatches. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if in the next couple of year’s Ben McAdoo evolves into a mad hatter of offensive game planners with all kinds of 4 and 5-receiver sets with WRs lining up in the backfield and RBs flexing out into space.

(Clearly, the Giants still need more playmakers at the skill positions to be truly effective in that regard, but that will come. In fact, my early assumptions were that the Giants would use free agency this year to try and get the defense back to a point where it was at least respectable and then use the draft to add to the skill positions to try and make the offense scary good and that is still a possibility. That’s why a Zeke Elliott makes a lot of sense. Not because the Giants need another RB; but one can do so many things with a talented guy like Elliott; other team plays run you flex him out and challenge them to cover him; other team plays pass keep him in the backfield and run the ball, etc. At the same time, though, while the Giants would probably like to upgrade at RB, they probably also feel that in a worst case scenario the offense will still be pretty good if its just Jennings and Vereen at the position again in 2016, although I would expect Mcadoo to maybe use them a little differently. Same story at TE. And its probably something of a similar story at RT. Bu getting in on the likes of Okung and Penn etc. the Giants have clearly indicated that they would like to upgrade there, but they also don’t appear to be so concerned that, unlike the situation on the DL, they aren’t going to just throw money at the position. In the end, they probably will find a decent FA OT just hoping to have a job, but they probably also feel that even in the worst case scenario in which they bring back Newhouse, Jerry and Hart, they would still have a unit that was top 5 in the league last year in fewest sacks allowed.)

I would expect an even more dramatic change in philosophy on the other side of the ball. In fact, one can make a pretty good case that the reason Coughlin got fired was that he just would not make any changes to a defensive game plan that just wasn’t working. From week one to week 16 they played the same static, vanilla defense in which they rushed 4 and dropped the coverage 12-15 yards off the line of scrimmage with the goal of keeping everything in front of them and coming up and tackling the receiver once the ball was caught. It didn’t work in week, it didn’t work in week 8 and it didn’t work in week 16, but the Giants made almost no attempt to make any adjustments. Coughlin apologists will blame it all on the lack of talent, but the fact is that defense could never have worked in this era of controlled passing attacks. Bottom line is you can not win in the NFL without being able to rush the passer and if you aren’t getting there with what you are doing then you have to do something else, otherwise you got no chance.

One can probably figure that Steve Spags marching orders this coming fall are to get to the QB. And that’s where a Leonard Floyd might come in; while technically a LB, he is potentially the most dynamic edge rusher in this year’s draft. He has an explosive first step and actually gathers speed on his second and third steps; he can also dip and bend and change direction. And he’s got a good motor. The one thing he didn’t have at Georgia was a lot of production, but they tended to use him in so many different roles that they never really tapped into his pass-rush potential (and the coach got fired!) If he indeed becomes a Giant, line him up on the weakside, bring him up to the LOS and tell him to get after the ball.

What could be just as interesting is what the Giants do with their other premium picks on April 29th. If they did get another pass rusher, would they then look to add a WR, RB or TE. Or would they stick with the defense either at CB, S or even another pass rusher. One guy a little under the radar that would be intriguing at #40, although again a little outside the box might be Bronson Kaufusi. Even though it is a really good year at DT I am not sure the Giants use a premium pick on someone at the position as its likely they wouldn’t start the year as any more than the 3-4 guy at the position, someone like Kaufusi who isn’t really a DE or DT – and isn’t really even a 5T DE – but is a really athletic, might be an intriguing option to give you some depth at DE and a potentially really good inside pass rusher on 3rd downs. Just a thought.

Have a nice day!
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so, just to argue against myself  
idiotsavant : 3/20/2016 10:31 am : link
I have ranted for the 5-1-5 for years, and the 5-0-6

The question then becomes, is the 5th dl player actually a linebacker type, or do you run it with 3 DTs and 2 DEs?

There are obvious arguments in favor of both ways, it would depend on whom you have on roster.

The 'big' 5, obviously, OLs are huge now, and there are all sorts of DTs you can blend in with 3, and gaps ratio to break open.

The 'small' 5, ala Kiwi as rush LB, depends on whom you have, the benefit would be in the inability of the opposing team to know what the heck you will do from one down to the next. Many, many variations with same set on field.

So it comes down to the perceived risk factors in integrating any given pick.
Very nice write up  
mavric : 3/20/2016 10:31 am : link
More enjoyable to read than 95% of the commercial stories found all over the web and in newspapers/magazines. Astute, well-written, and insight that makes one think. Bravo!

I surmise that you are either a school teacher / professor or an author of some sort
Like Floyd  
jeff57 : 3/20/2016 10:34 am : link
Tampa mat take him at 9 though.

And it's not '07 or'11 anymore. You a decent FS and a WILL with speed to win.
my guess is that the 'big 5'  
idiotsavant : 3/20/2016 10:35 am : link
would hypothetically be more likely to be implementable for a number of reasons, supply of likely parts for it, in players, and still offering plenty of variations albeit within line play, simplifying LB duties, as opposed to making them more complex as in the 'small 5'.

What makes you think McAdoo will become ultra-creative  
CT Charlie : 3/20/2016 10:36 am : link
on offense? Of course Coughlin was ultra-predictable. Though both Gilbride and McAdoo were happy to take downfield risks because of Eli's arm, we think they weren't allowed to do creative stuff because of Coughlin. Still, is there any evidence that McAdoo likes doing creative stuff?
thread is regarding D  
idiotsavant : 3/20/2016 10:38 am : link
.
I think that some here are too locked in on base D  
rich in DC : 3/20/2016 10:48 am : link
Yes, the Giants run a 4-3, and are unlikely to change that given the personnel that they signed this off-season. However, just because the 4-3 is your base D does not mean that is what you always run.

The Giants have long experimented with using a LB who is really a rush guy- Sintim, Kiwi, etc. Part of the problem has been that they have tried to convert guys who were really glorified DE's in college and not only had to learn the LB position in the pros, but also had to learn pass-rush moves.

THAT is why I think the Giants may be "locking in" on Floyd. He has been a LB who sometimes rushes the passer, but also is used to dropping into coverage and at least has an understanding of the position, even if he is somewhat miscast.

I think that a guy like Floyd probably starts as a situational rusher and occasionally as a decoy. The Giants could bring him in as a "rush LB" to be able to bring 5 guys- with Floyd coming wherever they see a weakness on the line - or use him to make the other team believe a LB blitz is coming, then drop him into coverage- while the QB checks down to a quick hit pass or a run play.

I agree 1000% with Colin's analysis- Coughlin won with a formula- but the NFL is a league that adjusts to success- and Coughlin seemed unable to adjust his philosophy late in his career. I also agree that the Giants will unview a different defense that takes risks, goes for the ball- and will sometimes get beat badly.

In many ways, I think that Coughlin misjudged his QB. When you have one of the better QBs in the game- let his game run your team- let him go on the attack- and have your D try to get him the ball as often and quickly as possible. Instead, the offense was unimaginative and overly scripted.

I agree with Colin that the Giants may give Eli more control of the offense- maybe not Peyton style, but certainly more imagination and options.
Don't want Floyd  
Marty866b : 3/20/2016 10:52 am : link
I don't like taking potential over production with a top 10 pick. Just because he has the attributes to be a good pass rusher doesn't make him a good pass rusher. Fourteen career sacks and 24 career tackles for loss doesn't get me very excited at #10. Looks like a second rounder to me and I am hoping that the Giants look at him that way also.
Nice post Colin  
Jay in Toronto : 3/20/2016 10:56 am : link
I imagine an effective Cruze would help your vision of a 'new' offense that much more likely.
RE: As to the draft  
Big Rick in FL : 3/20/2016 11:17 am : link
In comment 12867417 Greenpoint said:
Quote:
I believe you're right also - obviously they like Floyd although the million dollar question is do they STILL like him after what he pulled at his Pro Day?

I also think they'd love DeForest Buckner.


What do you mean what he pulled at his Pro Day?! He had food poisoning.
I mean, if it works with Floyd, that will be fun to watch  
idiotsavant : 3/20/2016 11:44 am : link
and great, for sure.

Just saying, if it would be me, and I do totally agree with big rick about being multiple and getting away from 4/3 under orthodoxy or whatever you call it.

I would still draft a Billings before a Floyd, as that would not negate multiplicity, just offers, to me, a less risky route to another type of multiplicity.

That said, trade down and take the same player is always a win win, but maybe not.
Big Rick  
Greenpoint : 3/20/2016 11:49 am : link
Pretty bad time to get "food poisoning".
BTW Rick  
Greenpoint : 3/20/2016 11:51 am : link
If he really had a bad case of food poisoning he wouldn't even have done what he did. He could not have impressed, let's put it that way.
meaning that, with the league as it is now, and our own factors  
idiotsavant : 3/20/2016 11:56 am : link
and still within a multiple world, I have become more DL centric.

So, for example, take 6 downs:

1. With JPP/Hank and Harrison\Vernon you run "ravens"

2. Same set but run "giants / TC" but improved

3. DE/Billings and Harrison/DE, 'Bucs' or 'Philly'

or

4. "5 line big", JPP/Billings/Harrison at NT\Hank\Vernon

or

5. "modified '46" Vernon / JPP/Billings/Harrison/Hank

6. 5 line "small" , Kennard/JPP/Harrison\Billings\Vernon
Why do you think  
Big Rick in FL : 3/20/2016 11:56 am : link
He's making it up? He's an athletic freak who would excel at a Pro Day. Like he did at the combine.

6'6 248 with a 4.60 40, 39.5 inch vertical & 10'7 broad jump. The last two are better then Odell.

He went out to dinner with a team the night before the Pro Day. Got food poisoning from that. I'm sure there were plenty of Georgia & NFL team Drs there to confirm he was sick.
Thining outside the big blue box  
Colin@gbn : 3/20/2016 11:59 am : link
Good comments all guys! I did want to add a comment to CT Charlie's question above. Who knows for sure, but during training camp the players would talk about all the unique things they were doing including 5-receiver sets and WRs lining up in the backfield etc but then when the games started we saw none of it. The other thing if one goes back and reads McAdoo's interviews literally from the day he arrived he talked about not wanting to be wedded to one system but being flexible enough to take advantage of the skills that your players do have. In that sense, I would be surprised if the Giants run 22-23 times a game in games in which their backs are averaging 3 yards or less per rush (as they did 8 times this past season). Time will tell though and ultimately you still have to have players that can make plays no matter what system you run.
Big Rick who knows?  
Greenpoint : 3/20/2016 12:01 pm : link
That's the point. Maybe this innocent team dinner included some drinking and he was hungover like 99% of people who claim to have food poisoning at work?

My point is - he didn't help himself if we are targeting him at #10. Jerry Reese, Marc Ross and LB Coach Bill McGovern took a boys trip down just to see him. Did his unfortunate incident turn us off? Who knows. That's why I postured the question.

But to act like they were 100% cool with going down there and seeing that is foolish IMO.
I doubt it has any effect  
Big Rick in FL : 3/20/2016 12:10 pm : link
on them taking him at 10.

This conspiracy theory might be one of the most dumb things I've ever heard. Everything I've heard/read is that he's a model citizen off the field who loves football & takes it very seriously. Yet you think he was drinking in a meeting with an NFL team? That's completely ridiculous.

You don't think we would have heard about it if that's what happened? You don't think an NFL team would have leaked that info in a day where any & everything negative about players gets out into the media.
Before Floyd  
JPinstripes : 3/20/2016 12:11 pm : link
Shut it down on his pro day for positional drills he posted a 7.19 3 clone drill and for a guy his size that's a great number and a number the Giants value highly.
Spellcheck  
JPinstripes : 3/20/2016 12:19 pm : link
Clone = Cone
JPinstripes  
Big Rick in FL : 3/20/2016 12:19 pm : link
7.18 & a 4.32 short shuttle. Which would have been 8th best among LBs at the combine. Pretty good at 6'6 250 while being sick.

Great  
AcidTest : 3/20/2016 12:24 pm : link
information Colin.

I agree that it’s going to be really hard to predict who the Giants will take at #10. I’d be OK with Floyd, but not thrilled. Fantastic length, can bend the edge, and can cover. But I was put off by his comments at his pro day, and he won’t stand up against the run as a 4-3 DE. That makes him a situational player. It’s also a very deep draft for DL. I don’t see the need to draft Floyd #10.

I’d rather trade down. I know it’s hard, but other teams manage to do it regularly. Reese has never done it IIRC.

You’d know better than I would, but I’d be surprised if Kaufusi went at #40.

Accorsi wanted to draft Kelly Jennings instead of Kiwi IIRC. He deferred to those who had a different opinion.
Agree Rick  
JPinstripes : 3/20/2016 12:27 pm : link
And probably among the best for "edge rushers" in both.

Point is, it's not like the guy shut Iit down and no showed his pro day, despite whatever illness he had.
Nice Colin.  
Big Blue '56 : 3/20/2016 12:46 pm : link
Emphasis on the pass rush got us ( and other teams) to SB XLII and XLVI and we survived without an all-pro S tandem... I think Reese concentrating where it all starts is absolutely the way to go, imv...S will take care of itself in FA and/or the draft..

Get to the QB or pressure him into mistakes..Simply stated, simple answer(for the most part) imo
Mike Mamula  
Marty866b : 3/20/2016 12:55 pm : link
Some of you here might be too young to remember him but he was great in his underwear also. Give me a football player at #10 in the first round who was a great college football player. There are and have been plenty of players who have fantastic measurables but aren't good football players. I don't know what Floyd will turn into but I wouldn't risk to find out with a top 10 pick. If we were picking in the 20's I would be more open to him.
Mamula is a bit of a myth  
JPinstripes : 3/20/2016 1:09 pm : link
He actually produced at BC with 12 sacks his junior year playing ILB and had 15 his senior year when switched to DE.

His rookie pro season with Philly he had 5.5 sacks and then 8 in season 2.

He blew out his knee in preseason his 3rd year and was never the same player.
4.32 and 7.18  
shyster : 3/20/2016 1:09 pm : link
are good numbers for a 270 pound "hand in the dirt" DL. They are not top ten pick numbers for a 248 pounder OLB/DE who is projected to cover NFL receivers.

Some historical data:

20y shuttle

AJ Hawk 3.96
Alex McCalister 4.00 (6'6 240, fastest all time DL)
Stephone Anthony 4.03
Bruce Irvin 4.03
Von Miller 4.06
Shaq Thompson 4.08
Brandon Marshall (LB) 4.09
Luke Kuechly 4.12
Adrian Clayborn 4.13
Jordan Hicks 4.15
Jerry Hughes 4.15
Vic Beasley 4.15
Junior Galette 4.16
Khalil Mack 4.18
Mychal Kendricks 4.19
Darron Lee 4.20
Joey Bosa 4.21
Odiggy 4.19
JJ Watt 4.21
Shaq Lawson 4.21
Ryan Shazier 4.21
Lavonte David 4.22
Shilique Calhoun 4.25
Ziggy Ansah 4.26
Chris Borland 4.27
Reggie Ragland 4.28
Joe Schobert 4.30
Leonard Floyd 4.32
Dion Jordan 4.35
Noah Spence 4.35
Carl Nassib 4.37
Barkevious Mingo 4.39


3-cone

Von Miller 6.70
Bruce Irvin 6.70
Jordan Hicks 6.78
Barkevious Mingo 6.84
Anthony Barr 6.82
JJ Watt 6.88
Vinny Curry 6.90
Navarro Bowman 6.91
Vic Beasley 6.91
Ryan Shazier 6.91
Luke Kuechly 6.92
Justin Miller 6.95
Shilique Calhoun 6.97
Shaq Thompson 6.99
Jerry Hughes 6.99
Alex McCalister 7.01
Dion Jordan 7.02
Junior Galette 7.04
Brandon Marshall 7.05
Fletcher Cox 7.07
Stephone Anthony 7.07
Chandler Jones 7.07
Khalil Mack 7.08
Derrick Shelby 7.09
Jamie Collins 7.10
Ziggy Ansah 7.11
Aaron Donald 7.11
Nick Fairley 7.14
Shaq Lawson 7.16
Chris Borland 7.18
Jason Pierre Paul 7.18
Leonard Floyd 7.18
Noah Spence 7.21

Alex McCalister was more sack productive than Floyd in the same conference. And I suspect he's a couple of years younger, although I haven't been able to confirm his DOB.


Good stuff Colin  
Shadow : 3/20/2016 1:11 pm : link
Your one of the treasured resources here that makes this place special.
Marty  
Big Rick in FL : 3/20/2016 1:21 pm : link
Floyd was a very good college player.

You can't just draft great college players. That doesn't work out either. Look at Tebow or Trent Richardson.

Odell was a very good player, but nothing like he is now. Different coaches, schemes & players effect certain guys. Floyd has played many different positions throughout his career & was asked to do many things while switching positions.
Shyster  
Big Rick in FL : 3/20/2016 1:33 pm : link
He had food poisoning. I'm sure fully healthy those #s go way up.

They really don't mean shit. Patrick Willis had no problem covering & he had a 4.46 short shuttle & 7.23 3 cone.

Michael Sam had more sacks then Floyd & McCalister. Look how that worked out.
the things I likes about Floyd  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/20/2016 1:39 pm : link
- he accelerates around the edge really well and has good spin and hand movements
- he's got the size you like to see and long arms
- he is constantly churning side to side and looks a lot like JPP in that regard
- he really does cover well and demonstrates great speed and agility when covering
- he has a "nose" for the ball
- it's scary to think of his kind of athleticism after he fills in his frame a little
RE: Shyster  
shyster : 3/20/2016 1:43 pm : link
In comment 12867666 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
He had food poisoning. I'm sure fully healthy those #s go way up.

They really don't mean shit. Patrick Willis had no problem covering & he had a 4.46 short shuttle & 7.23 3 cone.

Michael Sam had more sacks then Floyd & McCalister. Look how that worked out.


"Food poisoning" as a diagnosis was tossed into the ether by Gil Brandt, who wasn't even there.

There's a reason they do these drills and there's a reason Von Miller is at the top of both lists. Floyd is not remotely in that class of athlete.

I mentioned Alex McCalister because he has great drill numbers as well as sack productivity in the SEC (and is younger). He does have the same "long and lean, point of attack" issues as Floyd.

Micheal Sam had horrendous drill numbers; absolutely predictable that he would bust.
Really great stuff  
Vanzetti : 3/20/2016 2:21 pm : link
And as others have said, really well written

Rick like I said  
Greenpoint : 3/20/2016 2:35 pm : link
I doubt that impressed our crew that headed down there. How much did it put them off? Who knows.

Did all the other guys he ate with have food poisoning too? Or did he perhaps go out and celebrate with his boys on his college campus afterwards? Or did he just flat-out not feel like working out?

You are comfortable accepting the food poisoning excuse at face value. I raises some questions to me and I would be a little annoyed to say the least if I flew down there specifically to see him workout.
Nice post  
RAIN : 3/20/2016 2:44 pm : link
Kafusi is a nice player. I'm thinking he is more of a 3/4th round guy though. Good depth on the edge.
Thanks Colin,  
GMen23 : 3/20/2016 3:08 pm : link
Very Interesting.
RE: Rick like I said  
JPinstripes : 3/20/2016 3:18 pm : link
In comment 12867730 Greenpoint said:
Quote:
I doubt that impressed our crew that headed down there. How much did it put them off? Who knows.

Did all the other guys he ate with have food poisoning too? Or did he perhaps go out and celebrate with his boys on his college campus afterwards? Or did he just flat-out not feel like working out?

You are comfortable accepting the food poisoning excuse at face value. I raises some questions to me and I would be a little annoyed to say the least if I flew down there specifically to see him workout.


The 2 drills he did not participate in at the combine - 3 cone and short shuttle he completed at his pro day.

Floyd stood on his combine numbers for 40, vertical and broad jump as well as the positional drills he performed at the combine.

Between his combine and pro day he filled in all the blanks.

There is no character flaw/flag to see here and if the Giants are really interested in Floyd they will have him in for a private workout and thoroughly check him out.
The Giants have not been able to draft or develop  
BigBlueCane : 3/20/2016 4:08 pm : link
a LB worth a crap since Coughlin was hired. No matter who the LB coach or DC were, they just didn't do it.

And drafting Floyd will not fix that issue. He doesn't have it, the intangibles you look for a LB. He might have off the chart measurables but that's not production. That's a workout warrior and unfortunately, given the sheer incompetence of Jints central, I think Colin is correct and they will waste #10 on this dud.
I'm not biting on Floyd,too weak,thin.Gets crushed when run at,no base  
ReneNYG1 : 3/20/2016 4:53 pm : link
I'm in the school of not picking a project when you have a top ten Floyd is a project.
Guys I would love at ten are;
Elliot,Treadwell ,Coleman or Shaq
Sounds a lot like the JPP Draft Selection...  
M.S. : 3/20/2016 5:17 pm : link

...Floyd has unusual length, speed, athleticism, but not glaring college stats.

Maybe J.R. feels he can strike gold a second time with Floyd.
Floyd is no JPP  
George from PA : 3/20/2016 7:47 pm : link
Can someone provide film where Floyd dominates
Great write-up  
Mike from SI : 3/20/2016 8:08 pm : link
but I'm going to disagree with your take on the D last year. Spags tried blitzing and other things, but the talent wasn't there.

Anyway, thanks for providing the insight, I really enjoyed it.
RE: Floyd is no JPP  
chopperhatch : 3/20/2016 8:19 pm : link
In comment 12868001 George from PA said:
Quote:
Can someone provide film where Floyd dominates


Thank you. He is not powerful enough to sneak past NFL blockers. He tackles with his arms. He's 244 POUNDS!!!!!! He lacks any stoutness at the point of attack.

Oh and by the time of the season's beginning, hell be 24. As a rookie.

I'd much rather they go after OgBah. Has the size and speed, can be taught the moves.


I really hate Floyd with the tenth pick. By the time he's done with his rookie contract, he'll be 29 and slowing down.
Putting him at WILL  
chopperhatch : 3/20/2016 8:20 pm : link
because of his ability to cover is interesting, but he'll naw to this pick.
Thinking outside the big blue box  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2016 9:54 am : link
Morning guys: Don't want to beat this thing to death, but I just wanted to reiterate that my point in posting this yesterday was not to defend the Giants thinking on Floyd, but to try and help understand maybe what they are thinking and what direction they may going in. Fact is we have something of an historical precedence in that "if one follows Reese more often than not he will lead one to the pick." So I was a little surprised when I came over the day after Reese and company were at the Georgia pro day checking out an edge rushing OLB that the emerging media/BBI consensus was that since the Giants had not been able to sign any of the big name free agent OTs then the pick was almost assuredly going to be an OT and the only remaining issue was whether it would Stanley or Conklin.

My other point by implication - and one of the facets I really enjoy about this time of year is trying to understand the process and thinking that goes into draft and related decisions is that - for better or worse - there seems to be a disconnect between the way the media and fan base are thinking about the issues related to the team and that of the team itself. The media/fan base approach seems to be that the Giants have at least 18 holes on the roster and that unless they filled all 18 with players with at least some pro Bowl potential they were doomed! In contrast, the front office seems to be really focused on the defense/pass rush as the clear overriding priority while they can probably live with FA Jags or guys already on the roster to fill many if the other issues.

Again have a great day!!
Colin  
njm : 3/21/2016 10:34 am : link
If the go someone for the front 7 on the D in the 1st, could Hunter Henry be in the mix at #40?
Re: Hunter  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2016 11:59 am : link
njm: I would think that Hunter would at least be in the mix for the Giants with their 2nd pick, but your query is really the $64K question as to the rest of the Giants draft. My assumption had kind of been all along that the Giants would use the big free agent splash to make the D at least respectable again, then add a couple of mid-range FA OL and corners and then use the draft to upgrade the skill position talent on offense (RB, TE and maybe even a couple of WRs) to hopefully make an already pretty good offense scary good.

However, the secondary question I asked in the original post was does the interest in an edge-rusher like Floyd actually signal that other than maybe tweaking RT in FA and maybe adding some veteran jags for depth, the Giants are prepared to live pretty much with what they have on offense and plan to use the draft to continue to add to the defense. Certainly there will be a number of good defensive players available at #40 including DEs Calhoun and Jonathan Bullard, DTs Vern Butler and Austin Johnson, CBs Kendall Fuller, Artie Burns and Xavien Howard and S Vonnie Bell.

At the same time, my best guess is that if the Giants did go offense in the second round then a WR like Mike Thomas or Tyler Boyd would fill a much more urgent need than a TE. Time will tell.
RE: Re: Hunter  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/21/2016 12:25 pm : link
In comment 12868851 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:
njm:My assumption had kind of been all along that the Giants would use the big free agent splash to make the D at least respectable again, then add a couple of mid-range FA OL and corners and then use the draft to upgrade the skill position talent on offense (RB, TE and maybe even a couple of WRs) to hopefully make an already pretty good offense scary good.


Colin -- John Mara's comments would certainly seem to support what you are saying regarding how the Giants plan to fill their holes

When I look at the First team defense - the only thing that really stands out to me as a hole is the FS position -- and it may well be that the Giants are fine with JAG there. They certainly were fine with that last year.

When I look at the first team Offense -- the glaring hole is at Right Tackle and the leading question is whether or not you can count on Victor Cruz coming back --

Other than those three issues the remaining issues is how do you spend your resources on depth and building for the future.

In Round 1 Floyd does look the part for the Giants future in my opinion

In Round 2-6 -- Luxury pick fo the future would be DT the depth of the draft

But your immediate needs say one of these in no particular order BPA - WR, RT, DB

I don't think the Giants think they need to draft a TE..
The Giants need to draft a LB for the Future...
The Giants always need Speedy ST players
The Giants need a LS for the Future
the problem with thinking outside of the box  
BigBlueCane : 3/21/2016 4:31 pm : link
is there are at least 3 teams, Seattle, Arizona and Carolina, who will use said box to beat this team into submission.
RE: Mike Mamula  
Jay in Toronto : 3/21/2016 4:45 pm : link
In comment 12867615 Marty866b said:
Quote:
Some of you here might be too young to remember him but he was great in his underwear also.


TMI!! TMI! ;)
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