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Reading the draft tea leaves

Colin@gbn : 3/20/2016 9:30 am
Morning guys: Just 42 days until the draft; hard to believe where the time goes when one is having fun!

Have been working on updating our 2016 mock and without question trying to settle on a pick for the Giants is about as hard as it gets for any team in the opening round. Indeed, there are as many as 8-10 players that one can make the case they should, or at least could be the Giants pick with the 10th pick. Given our affinity for the Giants we have been scouring the pro day dispatches for any hint as to who they might be focusing in on given that in recent years one could usually follow where Jerry Reese and company were visiting and they’d pretty much lead one to the pick. So we are tad shocked when the first (and as far as we can tell so far only) campus workout that Reese has attended was that of Georgia OLB Leonard Floyd who wasn’t even on our ‘short list’ of the 8-10 cases that could be made.

Like most of the faithful our initial response was “NO WAY JOSE, NO CHANCE, NOT NOW, NOT EVER’ would the Giants be taking Floyd with the 10th pick. So what were they doing at Georgia? Thinking about a trade down? Blowing some smoke? Made some sense, but that’s simply not what the Giants do. What they do is go check out guys that their scouts have a high grade on. And, as perhaps the original ‘follow the money’ guy who lives by the old Yogi maxim that “one can see a lot by just watching” it is simply hard to get around the notion that the Giants were in Georgia looking at Floyd because they really like him as a prospect.

First, a couple of basic principles. Most importantly, this is not going to be a case of Reese ‘falling in love’ with the player as they like to say. The Giants have a process when it comes to the draft. Over the course of a season they will have at least one regional scout and two area scouts visit each of the major programs across the country at different times during the year who grade all the players. Then before the combine all the grades are aggregated and the Giants put together their preliminary board and identify the guys they want to focus in at the combine and at the pro days.

Second, the notion that on draft day the Giants sit around their war room checking off the players selected ahead of them and then take the ‘best player available’ left on the board when they get on the clock is a myth. Or at least it has been for the past 15-20 years. True, there been a couple of instances this century – Kiwi in 2007 and Prince in 2011 – when the Giants did take a BPA, but both were players they really didn’t expect to be there.

However, since at least 2000 the Giants have done one of two things with their top pick. Either they have targeted a particular position or issue: CB in 2001, DL in 2003, DB in 2006, WR in 2009, WR or OL in 2013 and OT in 2015. Or they have gone into the draft targeting a particular player they really liked: Shockey in 2002, Eli in 2004, Sinorice Moss in 2006 (nobody gets it right every year!), Kenny Phillips in 2008, JPP in 2010, David Wilson in 2012 and Justin Pugh in 2013. Sometimes those guys were at prime positions of need; other years not so much as they were just guys the Giants thought would be special players.

So where does the potential interest Floyd fit in that mix. Who knows for sure, but I suspect it may be close to the former. My guess is that the fact that the Giants are looking at an edge rusher suggest that maybe they ain’t done with the pass rush quite yet. It also suggests that the Giants plans to get back on the plus side this off-season may have less to do with filling a so-called shopping list of needs and more with reinventing the pass rush.

And it’s not hard to figure why. The Giants formula in both 2007 and 2011, for example, combined a solid passing attack and a dynamic pass rush. Plus one doesn’t have to look far past this year’s Super Bowl win by Denver which was powered almost exclusively by their pass rush. Indeed, in the end, one can make a pretty good case that the Giants could sign (or draft) all the Pro Bowl RTs, MLBs and free safeties in the world, but it will mean diddly squat if they can’t generate a pass rush. On the other hand, get back to rushing the passer and they could have Daffy Duck at FS, Donald (Duck or Trump – your choice) at MLB and Elmer Fudd at RT and still be solid contenders.

The other thing that people can probably take to the bank is that the team the Giants field in 2016 will not be your grandfather’s team. At least it won’t be Dylan, Cooper and Walker’s grandfather’s team. Indeed, there are pretty good odds that one is going to see a sea-change in the way the Giants try and win games this fall. The past few years under Tom Coughlin, for example, the basic philosophy was essentially very conservative: don’t turn the ball over on offense; don’t give up the big-play on defense; and get the game into the 4th quarter where you let your QB do his thing then.

In contrast, the front office has wanted a much aggressive approach on both sides of the ball. On offense that means spreading the field, creating mismatches and generating big plays off those mismatches. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if in the next couple of year’s Ben McAdoo evolves into a mad hatter of offensive game planners with all kinds of 4 and 5-receiver sets with WRs lining up in the backfield and RBs flexing out into space.

(Clearly, the Giants still need more playmakers at the skill positions to be truly effective in that regard, but that will come. In fact, my early assumptions were that the Giants would use free agency this year to try and get the defense back to a point where it was at least respectable and then use the draft to add to the skill positions to try and make the offense scary good and that is still a possibility. That’s why a Zeke Elliott makes a lot of sense. Not because the Giants need another RB; but one can do so many things with a talented guy like Elliott; other team plays run you flex him out and challenge them to cover him; other team plays pass keep him in the backfield and run the ball, etc. At the same time, though, while the Giants would probably like to upgrade at RB, they probably also feel that in a worst case scenario the offense will still be pretty good if its just Jennings and Vereen at the position again in 2016, although I would expect Mcadoo to maybe use them a little differently. Same story at TE. And its probably something of a similar story at RT. Bu getting in on the likes of Okung and Penn etc. the Giants have clearly indicated that they would like to upgrade there, but they also don’t appear to be so concerned that, unlike the situation on the DL, they aren’t going to just throw money at the position. In the end, they probably will find a decent FA OT just hoping to have a job, but they probably also feel that even in the worst case scenario in which they bring back Newhouse, Jerry and Hart, they would still have a unit that was top 5 in the league last year in fewest sacks allowed.)

I would expect an even more dramatic change in philosophy on the other side of the ball. In fact, one can make a pretty good case that the reason Coughlin got fired was that he just would not make any changes to a defensive game plan that just wasn’t working. From week one to week 16 they played the same static, vanilla defense in which they rushed 4 and dropped the coverage 12-15 yards off the line of scrimmage with the goal of keeping everything in front of them and coming up and tackling the receiver once the ball was caught. It didn’t work in week, it didn’t work in week 8 and it didn’t work in week 16, but the Giants made almost no attempt to make any adjustments. Coughlin apologists will blame it all on the lack of talent, but the fact is that defense could never have worked in this era of controlled passing attacks. Bottom line is you can not win in the NFL without being able to rush the passer and if you aren’t getting there with what you are doing then you have to do something else, otherwise you got no chance.

One can probably figure that Steve Spags marching orders this coming fall are to get to the QB. And that’s where a Leonard Floyd might come in; while technically a LB, he is potentially the most dynamic edge rusher in this year’s draft. He has an explosive first step and actually gathers speed on his second and third steps; he can also dip and bend and change direction. And he’s got a good motor. The one thing he didn’t have at Georgia was a lot of production, but they tended to use him in so many different roles that they never really tapped into his pass-rush potential (and the coach got fired!) If he indeed becomes a Giant, line him up on the weakside, bring him up to the LOS and tell him to get after the ball.

What could be just as interesting is what the Giants do with their other premium picks on April 29th. If they did get another pass rusher, would they then look to add a WR, RB or TE. Or would they stick with the defense either at CB, S or even another pass rusher. One guy a little under the radar that would be intriguing at #40, although again a little outside the box might be Bronson Kaufusi. Even though it is a really good year at DT I am not sure the Giants use a premium pick on someone at the position as its likely they wouldn’t start the year as any more than the 3-4 guy at the position, someone like Kaufusi who isn’t really a DE or DT – and isn’t really even a 5T DE – but is a really athletic, might be an intriguing option to give you some depth at DE and a potentially really good inside pass rusher on 3rd downs. Just a thought.

Have a nice day!
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I'm not biting on Floyd,too weak,thin.Gets crushed when run at,no base  
ReneNYG1 : 3/20/2016 4:53 pm : link
I'm in the school of not picking a project when you have a top ten Floyd is a project.
Guys I would love at ten are;
Elliot,Treadwell ,Coleman or Shaq
Sounds a lot like the JPP Draft Selection...  
M.S. : 3/20/2016 5:17 pm : link

...Floyd has unusual length, speed, athleticism, but not glaring college stats.

Maybe J.R. feels he can strike gold a second time with Floyd.
Floyd is no JPP  
George from PA : 3/20/2016 7:47 pm : link
Can someone provide film where Floyd dominates
Great write-up  
Mike from SI : 3/20/2016 8:08 pm : link
but I'm going to disagree with your take on the D last year. Spags tried blitzing and other things, but the talent wasn't there.

Anyway, thanks for providing the insight, I really enjoyed it.
RE: Floyd is no JPP  
chopperhatch : 3/20/2016 8:19 pm : link
In comment 12868001 George from PA said:
Quote:
Can someone provide film where Floyd dominates


Thank you. He is not powerful enough to sneak past NFL blockers. He tackles with his arms. He's 244 POUNDS!!!!!! He lacks any stoutness at the point of attack.

Oh and by the time of the season's beginning, hell be 24. As a rookie.

I'd much rather they go after OgBah. Has the size and speed, can be taught the moves.


I really hate Floyd with the tenth pick. By the time he's done with his rookie contract, he'll be 29 and slowing down.
Putting him at WILL  
chopperhatch : 3/20/2016 8:20 pm : link
because of his ability to cover is interesting, but he'll naw to this pick.
Thinking outside the big blue box  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2016 9:54 am : link
Morning guys: Don't want to beat this thing to death, but I just wanted to reiterate that my point in posting this yesterday was not to defend the Giants thinking on Floyd, but to try and help understand maybe what they are thinking and what direction they may going in. Fact is we have something of an historical precedence in that "if one follows Reese more often than not he will lead one to the pick." So I was a little surprised when I came over the day after Reese and company were at the Georgia pro day checking out an edge rushing OLB that the emerging media/BBI consensus was that since the Giants had not been able to sign any of the big name free agent OTs then the pick was almost assuredly going to be an OT and the only remaining issue was whether it would Stanley or Conklin.

My other point by implication - and one of the facets I really enjoy about this time of year is trying to understand the process and thinking that goes into draft and related decisions is that - for better or worse - there seems to be a disconnect between the way the media and fan base are thinking about the issues related to the team and that of the team itself. The media/fan base approach seems to be that the Giants have at least 18 holes on the roster and that unless they filled all 18 with players with at least some pro Bowl potential they were doomed! In contrast, the front office seems to be really focused on the defense/pass rush as the clear overriding priority while they can probably live with FA Jags or guys already on the roster to fill many if the other issues.

Again have a great day!!
Colin  
njm : 3/21/2016 10:34 am : link
If the go someone for the front 7 on the D in the 1st, could Hunter Henry be in the mix at #40?
Re: Hunter  
Colin@gbn : 3/21/2016 11:59 am : link
njm: I would think that Hunter would at least be in the mix for the Giants with their 2nd pick, but your query is really the $64K question as to the rest of the Giants draft. My assumption had kind of been all along that the Giants would use the big free agent splash to make the D at least respectable again, then add a couple of mid-range FA OL and corners and then use the draft to upgrade the skill position talent on offense (RB, TE and maybe even a couple of WRs) to hopefully make an already pretty good offense scary good.

However, the secondary question I asked in the original post was does the interest in an edge-rusher like Floyd actually signal that other than maybe tweaking RT in FA and maybe adding some veteran jags for depth, the Giants are prepared to live pretty much with what they have on offense and plan to use the draft to continue to add to the defense. Certainly there will be a number of good defensive players available at #40 including DEs Calhoun and Jonathan Bullard, DTs Vern Butler and Austin Johnson, CBs Kendall Fuller, Artie Burns and Xavien Howard and S Vonnie Bell.

At the same time, my best guess is that if the Giants did go offense in the second round then a WR like Mike Thomas or Tyler Boyd would fill a much more urgent need than a TE. Time will tell.
RE: Re: Hunter  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/21/2016 12:25 pm : link
In comment 12868851 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:
njm:My assumption had kind of been all along that the Giants would use the big free agent splash to make the D at least respectable again, then add a couple of mid-range FA OL and corners and then use the draft to upgrade the skill position talent on offense (RB, TE and maybe even a couple of WRs) to hopefully make an already pretty good offense scary good.


Colin -- John Mara's comments would certainly seem to support what you are saying regarding how the Giants plan to fill their holes

When I look at the First team defense - the only thing that really stands out to me as a hole is the FS position -- and it may well be that the Giants are fine with JAG there. They certainly were fine with that last year.

When I look at the first team Offense -- the glaring hole is at Right Tackle and the leading question is whether or not you can count on Victor Cruz coming back --

Other than those three issues the remaining issues is how do you spend your resources on depth and building for the future.

In Round 1 Floyd does look the part for the Giants future in my opinion

In Round 2-6 -- Luxury pick fo the future would be DT the depth of the draft

But your immediate needs say one of these in no particular order BPA - WR, RT, DB

I don't think the Giants think they need to draft a TE..
The Giants need to draft a LB for the Future...
The Giants always need Speedy ST players
The Giants need a LS for the Future
the problem with thinking outside of the box  
BigBlueCane : 3/21/2016 4:31 pm : link
is there are at least 3 teams, Seattle, Arizona and Carolina, who will use said box to beat this team into submission.
RE: Mike Mamula  
Jay in Toronto : 3/21/2016 4:45 pm : link
In comment 12867615 Marty866b said:
Quote:
Some of you here might be too young to remember him but he was great in his underwear also.


TMI!! TMI! ;)
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