What current or former NFL player does he most closely resemble on the field? I can't help but be obsessed with a guy who could be our Luke Keuchly. Really interested to hear everyone's assessment of this guy and what it might be worth trading to get him.
OR
a trade down a few slots and still look for lee or treadwell or conklin(hope not) or floyd
I am assuming coleman, stanley and hargreaves get taken somewhere between 10-15 so if we trade down we lose out on those 3
The Giants have had some of the consistently worst defenses I can recall as a fan since 2009, and yet there doesn't appear to be any institutional desire to rethink the defensive approach.
Get talent, then build the playbook to the talent. Anything else is bad management. Again the Patriots have been the model in this sense for years.
I hear a guy is Odell Beckham on defense, that Derrick Brooks is a reasonable comp, and we shouldn't move to get him?
That's fucking crazy.
Beckham
or
Flowers
Collins
Odi
M. Thompson
G. Davis
Hart
Richburg
Bromley
A. Williams
Berhe
Kennard
B. Jackson
I like a lot of those players and I find Beckham a little tough to take, but the answer is Beckham. Add in our probable best case first and second round picks this year and the answer is still Beckham.
If I'm Reese and my scouts feel as strongly about Jack as Sy does, I'm calling the Titans to try to move up to 1.
As GT pointed out a serious lack of talent of D has given this team some downright laughable defenses in recent seasons. They added some major piece through FA. Adding Jack could be the thing that really takes the unit up a notch. With that potential you've got to be willing to take a chance and forego one pick, even a second rounder. I mean, one of the most respected posters on BBI regarding the draft thinks he could impact the D the way OBJ did the O. And people are balking because of one pick? That's insane to me and suggests people are doing some wishful thinking about the draft. It's not like they're going to come away with 3 or 4 starters. It's just not realistic. You have a chance to add a game changing talent to a position that has been downright pathetic in recent years you take it. You can't give up your whole draft but like I said, if he gets to 6 you've got to at least try.
He is quite possibly the only surefire impact player in this draft, and on the D side of the ball - which is exactly what the Giants need.
He runs with WRs and RBs, and hits like George Brett.
The question was would YOU trade up for Jack? So while I appreciate your insight into the org's probably thinking, I'd also like to know what YOU would do, Jon.
And you better have brass balls, because you could be taking crap for years afterwards -- even if you end up with the better end of the deal. Remember that for years there was chatter about how the Chargers fleeced the Giants in the Eli trade.
GD, your argument about #of busts among draft picks, even top10 ones, is exactly why we SHOULD trade up for Jack.
He does not rush the passer - that is a major issue for top level front 7 player. He is also not a MLB right now so you would have him on 1 side of the defense.
He is not the first LB that can run. Hell, Casillas is a 4.5 guy right now
Unless they think this guy is a future MLB. I do not see anything he does that says he can be all world MLB
Jack's an interesting case because he seems to be creeping up the charts - earlier this offseason, it was a question of if the Giants might consider taking him at 10. Now they'd have to trade up?
That, combined with the inevitable slip by a round or two (or three) of guys that 'pundits' have ranked to go very high never ceases to amaze me, in particular because in most cases those pundits are dead wrong.
He does not rush the passer - that is a major issue for top level front 7 player. He is also not a MLB right now so you would have him on 1 side of the defense.
He is not the first LB that can run. Hell, Casillas is a 4.5 guy right now
Unless they think this guy is a future MLB. I do not see anything he does that says he can be all world MLB
He can rush the passer. Other guys his size do it.
That and the fact that he just does everything a linebacker should do - better than everyone else.
Quote:
He's most likely a 4-3 WILL, do you really think NYG will trade up for a LB?
No, I don’t. And he won’t be around at #10 either. So we aren’t getting him. People need to accept that and move on to something else. It isn’t happening.
Well in fairness, the OP asked if YOU would. Not if the Giants were going to. ;-)
The fallacy of this thnking is well demonstrated by draft history. In 2010 I posited tje notion that the Giants should trade up for JJ Watt if he lasted as far as 9 or so. He slipped, we didn't move up, and staying in place we got Prince. And Marvin Austin in the 2nd. Jerrel Jernigan in the 3rd. The next year, we got David Wilson in the 1st round, then Reuben Randle in the 2nd. Who the fuck wouldn't trade ALL THOSE PICKS, in retrospect, for JJ Watt?
When you have a player you really believe in, that you think is a generational player, you make the move. If you can...
My dog is smarter than most of BBI... But that's a matter for another thread when I have time.
The fallacy of this thnking is well demonstrated by draft history. In 2010 I posited tje notion that the Giants should trade up for JJ Watt if he lasted as far as 9 or so. He slipped, we didn't move up, and staying in place we got Prince. And Marvin Austin in the 2nd. Jerrel Jernigan in the 3rd. The next year, we got David Wilson in the 1st round, then Reuben Randle in the 2nd. Who the fuck wouldn't trade ALL THOSE PICKS, in retrospect, for JJ Watt?
When you have a player you really believe in, that you think is a generational player, you make the move. If you can...
Similar to the Atlanta Falcons trade up for Julio Jones in 2011.
Falcons wanted Jones badly and gave up a hefty price to move up to get Julio by trading their #1, #2, #4 picks from 2011 draft and #1 and #4 picks from 2012.
At the time, that cost was considered extremely favored to the Browns direction. Here we are 5 years later and who wouldn't rather have Julio Jones over the players drafted by all those draft picks WR Jonathan Baldwin, WR Greg Little, FB Owen Merecic, QB Brandon Weeden and WR Jarius Wright.
Point being, if you are sold on a player being an impact player, make the move to trade up.
Anybody 10 year old with a laptop and internet connection to CBSSPORTS.COM/MOCK DRAFT would have come away with better players...
What I and Terps and others are suggesting is - if you believe Jack is special, what Sy said OBJ type special, you get him and let Spags figure out i(e adjust) how to use him.
Terps said it great: design your system to the strengths of your players. I bet Spags is more than capable of adjusting to a guy with Jack's skill set.
Or just put Jack at free safety and see how Dez Bryant feels about getting hit by a 245 pound missile after catching a deep post...
Anybody 10 year old with a laptop and internet connection to CBSSPORTS.COM/MOCK DRAFT would have come away with better players...
No fucking way. Because that's exactly how Cleveland picked them!
He does not rush the passer - that is a major issue for top level front 7 player. He is also not a MLB right now so you would have him on 1 side of the defense.
He is not the first LB that can run. Hell, Casillas is a 4.5 guy right now
Unless they think this guy is a future MLB. I do not see anything he does that says he can be all world MLB
In all liklihood he is a future 4/3 Mike. Pass rushing is his weakness at this point - unless you get him a free run to the QB.
245 LBs don't play FS because they lack the range, AA, and COD to play in the secondary. It might work in Madden, grin.
Who else was a freak Lb who played Hb also?
Ray Lewis.
He regularly drifted out to pick up guys the opposition would try to hide in the backfield and then split out wide as WRs.
Watch him vs USC. It's nuts how often Jack followed the receiver USC was trying to "hide" from the D. Then Jack blankets the guy like a bad rug and the QB, bird dogging his primary target, has no where to throw the ball.
I actually think UCLA misused him, moving him all over the place. But typically he's the best football player and best athlete on the field.
Oh I agree the Giants won't do it. Reese doesn't have the stones for it.
Quote:
Browns used those picks is flawed.
Anybody 10 year old with a laptop and internet connection to CBSSPORTS.COM/MOCK DRAFT would have come away with better players...
No fucking way. Because that's exactly how Cleveland picked them!
Just saying I think its safer to say who, after 5 years, got the better of the deal Atlanta or Cleveland. But not to say who wouldn't want Julio over those gaggle of players. I think everybody would want Julio as well.
But I also think the majority of the 31 teams would rather have all those picks at their disposal instead of Julio.
I do however find your insight interesting.
Can you see him being a dominate MLB in our 4-3? Especially with help up front to start?
If he's there at 10 hypothetically I would only take him if he can be what I think he can be at MLB tho not Weakside or strong side. Otherwise give me Treadwell at 10.
I'm sick of guys like Unga who don't belong in the league getting owned in the 4th Qtr. No excuse we need a major upgrade. Unga is trash at MLB, I'd rather see Herzlich honestly. Unga is the worst I've seen since Like Phillip Dillard. Even Greg Jones was a stud compared to Unga even for one year.
Add talent and coach to the talent, not the other way around.
Fact remains this sport is moving in a direction where athletes of Jack's size are getting harder to deploy in a full-time role. College level isn't the NFL level. Would love to have him, but not at the cost of 2-3 premium draft picks.
Jon, understand your point, but don't get the size issue. Twice he has been officially weighed (combine & pro day) at 245#. That's not big enough for a 4-3 Mike? I think we watch him move, and we have a hard time believing he's that big... But I doubt the scales lie.
IMO he's the prototype of what the next generation of great 4-3 Mikes will have to be to handle modern passing attacks. Fast enough to cover any RB or TE, even fast and agile enough to cover WRs. Not to mention big and fast enough to adequately spy on beasts like Cam Newton or Kapernick.
You think he's too small?
11TDs on 68 carries with a 5.7 YPC... Nuts.
Doesn't really help project how he'll be as a LBer on the NFL level but damn is he an impressive athlete.
I wouldn't trade too much for a defensive player who doesn't project to be a premier pass rusher. But Jack is really tempting because of how versatile he could be.
You shouldn't think like this but the Cowboys being right there makes me more likely to trade up for this guy. Can't have this guy wrecking shit in our division for a decade.
The Giants have had some of the consistently worst defenses I can recall as a fan since 2009, and yet there doesn't appear to be any institutional desire to rethink the defensive approach.
Get talent, then build the playbook to the talent. Anything else is bad management. Again the Patriots have been the model in this sense for years.
I hear a guy is Odell Beckham on defense, that Derrick Brooks is a reasonable comp, and we shouldn't move to get him?
That's fucking crazy.
You've implied that if a good player is on a bad defense he's not worth keeping. That's not consistent with wanting to gut talent to get one good player on defense.
Nice try.
I like the idea of going linebacker with the 10th pick. We've ignored that position for too long. But I think it's a good idea to hold on to our 2nd day picks.