say what you want about the need to improve other areas, but WR is the only position where we are in worse shape than we ended last year and one of few without a viable way to improve other than a high draft pick.
I could see taking Elliot before him, and I don't want him. One of Stanley, Floyd, Hargreaves and Conklin will be available at 10. Any of them would be better than Treadwell or Elliot.
We're going to have many great options, I'd be happy with a variety of guys, but I'm hoping we come out of round 1 with one of the top WR's (Treadwell or Coleman).
STRENGTHS: Well-built for the position with a muscular upper body and sleek definition. Long arms and large hands to create a very large catching radius. Natural plucker with vacuum hands away from his body, snatching anything in his general direction. Outstanding on 50/50 balls, showing above average body control and hand-eye coordination.
Lacks sprinter speed, but faster than expected due to strong, decisive strides, never playing hesitant. Shows the ability to push routes, sink and quickly locate the football. Plays with grown man strength to brush off tackle attempts and get every yard possible - rarely phased by initial tackler in college due to his balance and power.
Has run-after-catch ability with his strength and athleticism, stretching screens into big gains. Won't allow defenders to chase him out of bounds. Takes pride in his blocking, throwing his body and overwhelming defenders.
Very strong-minded competitor and doesn't shrink under bright lights. Innately motivated and wired right for professional football. Carries himself like a leader with a goal-oriented mind-set - genuinely enjoys the comradely with his teammates. Very grounded, mature personality for his age and handled adversity well after his 2014 season-ending injury.
a contender for the Giants pick at #10. The Giants need another quality WR, it's a premium position, and if the Giants feel he's worth it, and there's not a better opportunity, I'm happy with it.
But I'm sure the Giants have a list for #10, and it's impossible to know right now where he is on that list.
STRENGTHS: Well-built for the position with a muscular upper body and sleek definition. Long arms and large hands to create a very large catching radius. Natural plucker with vacuum hands away from his body, snatching anything in his general direction. Outstanding on 50/50 balls, showing above average body control and hand-eye coordination.
Lacks sprinter speed, but faster than expected due to strong, decisive strides, never playing hesitant. Shows the ability to push routes, sink and quickly locate the football. Plays with grown man strength to brush off tackle attempts and get every yard possible - rarely phased by initial tackler in college due to his balance and power.
Has run-after-catch ability with his strength and athleticism, stretching screens into big gains. Won't allow defenders to chase him out of bounds. Takes pride in his blocking, throwing his body and overwhelming defenders.
Very strong-minded competitor and doesn't shrink under bright lights. Innately motivated and wired right for professional football. Carries himself like a leader with a goal-oriented mind-set - genuinely enjoys the comradely with his teammates. Very grounded, mature personality for his age and handled adversity well after his 2014 season-ending injury.
In the top 20. He's a good player, but he has separation issues against college DBs. Doesn't really have the deep speed & I don't think he is very good against press coverage. At the combine he showed a lack of explosion with a 33" vertical & 9'9 broad jump. Those are not #s of a top 10 pick IMO.
Everybody likes to talk up his bowl game which statistically looked great, but he had a lot of catches where he just wasn't covered at all.
If they feel he is worth the 10th pick then I will get behind the pick. I think he's a good WR that should be chosen between 20-32.
Nice catch Eric; Interesting; I had seen the part of visiting a NY team but had not seen the Giants part. Certainly from the UGA visit etc I have been thinking that Floyd was at the head of the Giants short list at #10, but what happens if Floyd is gone (and there are rumblings that he is one of the hot guys right now such as I mentioned in another post I had a source with league contacts who said don't be surprised if Floyd goes as high as 7th to SF. If that were the case (assuming that Floyd is even the #1 target) what's the fallback. Other than maybe Lawson I am not sure there are any other edge rushers worthy of 10 so in that sense having an option at WR makes a lot of sense. and as people are noting let's see what he runs on Monday and who the Giants send to ole Miss. In the meantime, enjoy the weekend with the family.
More offensive players in rd 1. Do any of you guys remember the defense last season? The defense needs serious attention. The top needs are a lb that can rush and cover and a fs that can cover over the top. Please don't say the young s on the roster. Jackson, is a blown out knee waiting to happen. Berhe, is a SS and Thompson blew out his Achilles which can be career ending. If they don't get a fs in the draft or sign a veteran they will be in big trouble again.
OBJ be an even better OBJ, thats fine.
I have other preferences but if they see it and take him, that means they are satisfied with what they did on D in FA; likely go D in rd 2.
But the mock that I have to put together this week, I have Treadwell going to NYG.
Of all the BPAs that might be there, you believe he will be chosen? If so,mdo you believe OBJ and LT can be as lethal a tandem as White (in his prime) and Julio Jones, or possibly better?
Huge day for him as he's going to finally run his 40.
I agree that people are going to be interested in his 40 but that doesn't mean anything to me. I want to see his 3 cone and short shuttle. I don't care if he can run past defenders. I care if he can separate from them in under 2 seconds because that is how our offense is run. If he cannot get separation quickly then that will not be good for us. That is why I like Coleman for the Giants. He is just too quick.
More offensive players in rd 1. Do any of you guys remember the defense last season? The defense needs serious attention. The top needs are a lb that can rush and cover and a fs that can cover over the top. Please don't say the young s on the roster. Jackson, is a blown out knee waiting to happen. Berhe, is a SS and Thompson blew out his Achilles which can be career ending. If they don't get a fs in the draft or sign a veteran they will be in big trouble again.
Please name me one playmaker we have on offense behind Odell? What's our contingency plan if he gets hurt? You mention need for safeties, please show me a safety that's worth a top 10 pick that will be there when we pick. Where are these stud LB's after Myles Jack?
Not a bad list at all. But Treadwell is "definitely" behind those guys? Not sure how a case can be made for that. Especially Elliot, Robinson, Lawson, Floyd and Conklin. Watch tape of all those guys in the same hour and you can't say that.
do you understand we have NOBODY after OBJ. there were games last season OBJ got doubled and NO1 got open...it killed us and hurt our oline play, stack the box double OBJ and the game was over. a guy like treadwell and his size add a huge redzone threat too...wouldnt be mad AT ALL, but would rather see a darron Lee or a jack if he falls then maybe a trade up in round 2 for doctson...
But the mock that I have to put together this week, I have Treadwell going to NYG.
Of all the BPAs that might be there, you believe he will be chosen? If so,mdo you believe OBJ and LT can be as lethal a tandem as White (in his prime) and Julio Jones, or possibly better?
Treadwell is grouped together behind the elite guys in this class.
And yes, Treadwell/Beckham can be better than White/Jones.
Okay just stop it with Conklin, Rankins, Lawson, Robinson.
Even if you included them that puts Treadwell at 14th.
i said the EXACT same thing about those 4, but even if you put him behind them he is ranked 14th lol...not really a reach lol. now if somehow you traded back and got him like 15th 16th that be amazing lol
People are really underrating a guy because he doesn't have top end Â
I'm not saying a fs at 10. I'm saying olb first and that pick should be Floyd. The d got torched on screen plays last year. Floyd can rush and cover. A fs should be picked no later than Rd 4. We don't have a threat beside obj but can get one later in the draft. Denver showed that a great d beats a great offense anytime.
RE: RE: People are really underrating a guy because he doesn't have top end Â
He's got short area explosion, he's physical, and he attacks the ball when he goes to catch it.
Eli would feed this guy back shoulder fades and crush CB's spirits weekly.
If that is true then I am all for it. I just don't really agree with the short area explosion. That is what I really need to see, not his long speed.
i dont know if he has super quick short speed but the guy attacks the football, he always goes after it and catches with his hands, he is FAR from soft and think he would make a great compliment to OBJ
His value is beyond me. His scouting report is almost identical to Alshon Jeffrey's and many of you wanted to give that guy 50/60 million to play opposite Odell.
I've watched him and while he doesn't stretch the field, he shields the ball and goes up and gets it. I'm not saying he's my favorite for 10, but I would be happy with him. I would prefer Conklin or Stanley at 10 and to grab Shepard in 2. But Treadwell might be a game breaker.
He's got short area explosion, he's physical, and he attacks the ball when he goes to catch it.
Eli would feed this guy back shoulder fades and crush CB's spirits weekly.
If that is true then I am all for it. I just don't really agree with the short area explosion. That is what I really need to see, not his long speed.
I keep coming back to one player and I see a more explosive Brandon Marshall. Might not blow past safeties very often but he'll make 20 yard catches downfield routinely then break tackles and explode for more very shortly after the catch.
Okay just stop it with Conklin, Rankins, Lawson, Robinson.
Even if you included them that puts Treadwell at 14th.
i said the EXACT same thing about those 4, but even if you put him behind them he is ranked 14th lol...not really a reach lol. now if somehow you traded back and got him like 15th 16th that be amazing lol
Didn't say he was a reach. Just said he's not the 10th best player in the draft.
how people scream that Treadwell isn't a top 10 player, but Conklin seems to be getting a lot of play recently. Is Conklin a top 10 player? Not so sure.
Oh I forgot, those rules don't apply to offensive tackles or linebackers around here.
More offensive players in rd 1. Do any of you guys remember the defense last season? The defense needs serious attention. The top needs are a lb that can rush and cover and a fs that can cover over the top. Please don't say the young s on the roster. Jackson, is a blown out knee waiting to happen. Berhe, is a SS and Thompson blew out his Achilles which can be career ending. If they don't get a fs in the draft or sign a veteran they will be in big trouble again.
The defense from last year is the reason why the Giants went out and spent 200 million dollars this FA period. In that total is Keenan Robinson who is reportedly able to cover. OF course he is a stop gap with a 1 year contract but, you can't rebuild an entire team in one off-season.
If the Giants had any type of credibility in regards to a 2nd WR - the offense becomes stellar. We all saw what happened to the O when OBJ had to sit out the week suspension. What happens if his hamstring acts up again .... and he has to miss multiple weeks.
I hope they go high with a WR (or 2) and a RB if the talent is there. We need more weapons on O. We can find another serviceable OL for he right-side in September (veteran cuts).
To be the franchise receiver that Laquon’s talent and size suggests that he can become, he must break this habit of slowing down after his cuts against single coverage. Once he does that (and I have no doubt that he will), Laquon becomes a big “game planning problem” for teams going up against him. He has those strong hands to go along with his size and speed which makes him very tough to stop in the red zone or when he needs to gain extra yardage for a first down. He is athletic and, like I said, can catch the ball with defenders hanging all over him. He has those long legs that make it hard to stay with him on deep routes even if the defender can run faster than he can. He displayed a tremendous work ethic coming back from a broken leg and has excellent mental toughness to deal with the blindside hits from safeties and still hang on to the ball. It’s up to Laquon how successful and impacting he wants to be at the next level, but with the information I have in front of me, I have no doubt that he will become a franchise receiver for the team that selects him. He is the real deal.
They need a wr but not at 10.if Cruz comes back and Harris plays well again the wr position is better. Do you really want to watch the d get torched again? The passrush may get more sacks but when you can't stop the screen play and the over the top pass your in trouble, when the passrush doesn't get there. At fs your relying on three guys you relied on last year. Berhe, is not a fs and the other two are injury prone. Don't want it to be like last year when they need to score 40 to win.
They need a wr but not at 10.if Cruz comes back and Harris plays well again the wr position is better. Do you really want to watch the d get torched again? The passrush may get more sacks but when you can't stop the screen play and the over the top pass your in trouble, when the passrush doesn't get there. At fs your relying on three guys you relied on last year. Berhe, is not a fs and the other two are injury prone. Don't want it to be like last year when they need to score 40 to win.
There's probably as much, and certainly no less, reason to play the "what if" game wrt the three guys they were already planning on using as fs last year. I'm not sure why you can discount Thompson and Bennett as injury prone and yet include Cruz as the reason for acceptability of what we have at wr.
I would prefer Conklin or Stanley at 10 and to grab Shepard in 2.
That's more like it.
Shepard is a slot receiver. I'd love to have him on the team, I think he'll be a great pro, but he and Treadwell play different positions, and the Giants need a WR2 opposite OBJ. Shepard doesn't solve that.
They need a wr but not at 10.if Cruz comes back and Harris plays well again the wr position is better. Do you really want to watch the d get torched again? The passrush may get more sacks but when you can't stop the screen play and the over the top pass your in trouble, when the passrush doesn't get there. At fs your relying on three guys you relied on last year. Berhe, is not a fs and the other two are injury prone. Don't want it to be like last year when they need to score 40 to win.
I agree we need a FS ... but, the Giants didn't seem to like what was available in FA and I don't see a FS getting a lot of press (not that the FS position gets a lot of press anyway) in the upcoming draft. I wouldn't want to see them take a FS who was graded out as a 2nd or 3rd day pick (just because he is a FS) while leaving higher graded players on the board.
My concern about Treadwell is his injury history. I know he came back strong from that broken leg and dislocated ankle, but it’s still concerning for the #10 pick. That is especially true for a team that has lead the league in injuries the last two years. Can we afford the risk? Somebody was talking about Keyarris Garrett the other day, but he has the same problem. Broken leg, and then came back strong two years later.
He's just not very good. There will plenty to choose from at 10 and I'd be on board with a bunch of them, but I will be thoroughly disgusted if Lawson were the pick. But I don't think he's even an option for the Giants, so I'm not going to worry about it.
Here's a good highlight tape from this year - Alshon/Dez similarities Â
show up all throughout it. The way he secures the football, uses his body, and can combine acrobatic catches and RAC ability with toughness. Link - ( New Window )
He's just not very good. There will plenty to choose from at 10 and I'd be on board with a bunch of them, but I will be thoroughly disgusted if Lawson were the pick. But I don't think he's even an option for the Giants, so I'm not going to worry about it.
Dude, Lawson beat up ronnie Stanley for 3 quarters. It was stanleys worst tape of the year and he was beaten by power and speed moves.
This draft is full of DEs who have power moves. Lawson and Judon are literally the only guys who have speed and power.
He's just not very good. There will plenty to choose from at 10 and I'd be on board with a bunch of them, but I will be thoroughly disgusted if Lawson were the pick. But I don't think he's even an option for the Giants, so I'm not going to worry about it.
Thank you.
I can't figure out the love affair with that guy. He has a cool name. I think that's it.
fan of Treadwell's - he's been dominating the SEC for a good while now. The draft process sucks for guys like him - the longer period of time there is before the draft the more time people can pick apart things about his game. He's a natural at he position and a competitor - I'd love this pick. He's going to interview very well too.
My concern about Treadwell is his injury history. I know he came back strong from that broken leg and dislocated ankle, but it’s still concerning for the #10 pick. That is especially true for a team that has lead the league in injuries the last two years. Can we afford the risk? Somebody was talking about Keyarris Garrett the other day, but he has the same problem. Broken leg, and then came back strong two years later.
I don't have any concern with that injury. He was running into the end zone and got tackled from behind - boom. He's literally been on the field for every game other than that. Not only has he not had hen but he just doesn't seem like a soft tissue injury type of player. The dude brings it every game.
fan of Treadwell's - he's been dominating the SEC for a good while now. The draft process sucks for guys like him - the longer period of time there is before the draft the more time people can pick apart things about his game. He's a natural at he position and a competitor - I'd love this pick. He's going to interview very well too.
He had 1 season over 650 yards & 5 TDs. Wouldn't exactly say he was dominating anything.
Vs Stanley. He had one spin move for pressure. Vey nice move but thats it. Nothing really impressive in there when matched up vs Stanley. He did his best work vs the TE.
Treadwell isn't that kind of athlete. Best case is that he is Anquan Boldin.
Like looking back Boldin wouldn't have been more than worthy of a #10 pick almost every draft year?
I don't see that comp with Treadwell (I see a slightly lesser Dez, like others), but the Giants would be lucky to have him if that's the case. Hell, people still want them to sign 35 year old Boldin right now.
There's Dline help to be had in rounds 2 & 3 with how deep this draft is. And the team has Double-O still. Another pass rusher for depth is needed but the effectiveness of a strong DE rotation can be neutralized by teams running the hurry up.
At this time a WR that is "NFL ready" to be the #2-3 guy might have a greater impact.
Vs Stanley. He had one spin move for pressure. Vey nice move but thats it. Nothing really impressive in there when matched up vs Stanley. He did his best work vs the TE.
False.
Here is a tape review, Stanley got beat up for 3q.
He had 1 season over 650 yards & 5 TDs. Wouldn't exactly say he was dominating anything.
Not sure I follow. Are you using 650 yards as your barometer?
Freshman year: 72 for 608 and 5
Sophomore year: 48 for 632 and 5 (8.5 games played)
Junior year: 82 for 1153 and 11 (less than a year after broken leg and dislocated ankle)
That's very good. If you're using the same logic you'd say that Beckham wasn't impressive in college. You have to watch them play.
Treadwell isn't that kind of athlete. Best case is that he is Anquan Boldin.
Like looking back Boldin wouldn't have been more than worthy of a #10 pick almost every draft year?
I don't see that comp with Treadwell (I see a slightly lesser Dez, like others), but the Giants would be lucky to have him if that's the case. Hell, people still want them to sign 35 year old Boldin right now.
No disagreement. Just have to be realistic that the lesser athlete is more of a risk. I'd rather take a risk on Treadwell than Floyd or Lawson.
Will be very interested in Treadwell's pro day (Monday).
I've always been a big fan, and I'd be pretty stoked if he were the pick. I think people have this image of Treadwell like he's not going to be all that much different than Randle, but that's not the case from what I've seen. He has the potential to dictate coverage, and to have 2 of those type of players, would do wonders for the running game.
and who want a #2 WR are out of your minds -- this kid is a terrific athlete and kinda reminds me of a cross between Nicks and Dez and a little Beckham thrown in for good measure
He's Awesome and I could live with him as the pick at 10
Just saying that less then 650 yards for 2 out of 3 years isn't dominating. It's a decent season, but certainly not dominate in the SEC.
Odell wasn't dominating either outside of 1 year.
That's an unfair comparison though as Odell played with Landry, Hill, Rueben Randle, Alfred Blue, Russell Shepard & Kenny Hilliard taking away touches.
Not saying Treadwell won't be a good player. Just saying 2 of his 3 years weren't dominate.
Nicks is a good comparison. Separation was an issue with him and he did ok. Same goes for Mike Evans. Though Evans is bigger than Treadwell he struggled to get separation at times. Both receivers did or are doing well in the NFL.
If by some chance we do take him I want ever other pick to be on the defensive side of the ball ;-)
We can get a quality WR in Rd2 - Sterling Shepard is my guy.
I pretty much agree. Treadwell may be the best wideout on the board, but the sweet spot for wr in this draft is in the 2nd round. A number good receivers may fall to our pick - Shepard, Fuller, Doctson, Thomas. If the Giants want to draft a wideout, I think they should wait for round 2.
previously but the way I'd feel about this pick is that they see him as what i saw when i watched him play and he would be a possible second elite talent with an ideal everything including height, sure hands, team player, smarts, good route runner, mature and can dominate inferior cb;s. He is long and catches everything. So yeah we absolytely need D line and linebackers. But I also decided that I think this guy can be insanely good and if a team has to play either he or OBJ solo, they are fucked.
This guy will be good. I am positive of it. He can be great. In my opinion. So since he fits a profile of what we need even if not urgent as LB or DT, I say take the better player if the drop is huge.
The single reason I'd not take him is if you miss then you didn't take a player on thr weaker side of the ball but if he is going to be as good as I think, its a superb move to take him to pair with OBJ and give Eli unfair riches. Especially if we go with existing rostrer TE's
I think he'll be a stud in this league. He's one of a few players I got narrowed down at 10. Treadwell times higher than a 4.6 at his proday that will change but I expect low 4.5s. He'll help on 3rd downs and in the redzone. Two areas we struggled a bit at.
But the notion that we have to go WR in the first round is misguided. A WR somewhere in rounds 2-4 with Cruz returning would be good for an offense that ranked 7th last season. The argument is "what if OBJ gets hurt" well what if JPP gets hurt. It goes both ways. This team needs talent all over the place and we're not going to get it all in one year.
I'm not a big fan of Stanley (my pro comp is Beatty) and I'm not overly high on Lawson (I think he's better standing up), however Lawson definitely got the better of Stanley in their matchup. Stanley was beat so bad on one play he literally tackled Lawson. On another play Lawson got his hands inside and hit Stanley with a bull rush. He walked Stanley right back into the QBs lap. They tried desperately to establish the run but couldn't. Lawson was awesome on the edge in that game.
It can be argued that he isn't a top 10 player, but he is sure as shit a top 15 player.
I'd feel better with this pick than Floyd.
No offense, but why do you seem to always say "I said it before...." When others come around to your viewpoint? Do you really think that the thought of Treadwell at 10 was first conceived by the firing of your neurons?
I get the can't separate criticism, by just looking at the tape but that doesn't always tell the full story. While Kelly is a strong armed QB he is a bit erratic and the lack of accuracy shows, especially on the deep routes. Treadwell was rarely hit in stride and often had to adjust for the ball, which only showcases his great hands.
I think a decent comparison from an athletic standpoint is Larry Fitzgerald. Similar build, similar style of play. Fitzgerald ran 4.63 at the combine, but then ran in the 4.5s at his pro-day. Remember that the pro day times are almost always faster than the combine times for a few reasons. 1. Indy is considered a slower track than most and 2. Unlike the combine which uses official electronic timing pro-day 40s rely on hand held timing, which is rarely accurate and can often be off by .1-.25 seconds. So Fitzgerald is probably a 4.6 40 guy, but Rice was a 4.7 and Boldin is a 4.8 guy and that was in his youth.
Treadwell is the best Wr in this draft, perhaps not the most explosive, but don't think of him like that. He is not OBJ, Treadwell is more of a Fitzgerald, Boldin, Eric Moulds, and Bryant type. Not going to blow your doors off with speed, but does everything else a WR is supposed to do perfectly, and has enough speed, great hands, and plenty of height to make you pay.
If he runs under 4.6 he cements himself in the top 15 and is easily worthy of the ten spot. Now you can argue whether the Giants should take a WR over OT, CB, or DE, but that's a different thread. I'm 100% OK with it, as long as it's Treadwell. He gives you everything Randle was supposed to and then some. Hell make OBJ even better, which is a crazy thought. And Eli will put up even better numbers. As long as they address RT, I think Treadwell at 10 makes a good deal of sense as there is a big drop in outside WR talent in this draft.
It can be argued that he isn't a top 10 player, but he is sure as shit a top 15 player.
I'd feel better with this pick than Floyd.
No offense, but why do you seem to always say "I said it before...." When others come around to your viewpoint? Do you really think that the thought of Treadwell at 10 was first conceived by the firing of your neurons?
I have no problem with you, just curious
No, often I'm saying that because I am aware that I am repeating myself.
For those that say Treadwell is "definitely" not a top 10 player...I'd like to see a list of 10-15 players ahead of him.
Elliot
Bosa
Ramsey
WJiii
Lawson
Tunsil
Jack
Rankins
Hackett
Doctson
I didn't even use qbs.
Who the fuck is Hackett?
Doctson? Rankins? Lawson?
Give it up.
Hackett will be a top 10 player in this draft within 2 years
Lawson is only DE who can bend and flex around the edge with speed.
Rankins is only DT who has actual pass rush moves and counter moves
Doctson is a better allen Robinson.
jawebb, you're stupid, we've established that. But now you're just making shit up to support your posts. Lawson's bend is HORRIBLE. He's not even a first round pick as far as I'm concerned.
and I would be unhappy if we did for anyone else. I think this guy is a different level of good. In the games I watched him play in it was man against boys. The more I talk about it and the more I envision a Dez with all great traits and football IQ playing with Odell, the more I want this to be the pick unless we get a LB or DE that we must have. I like taking the elite guy when he's there.
I like Treadwell a lot. Watched him a bunch in the SEC Â
over the years. I never saw any difference pre vs post injury either. Just an overall solid WR that beats his guy consistently, and the SEC has some good defenses that he went up against.
While I agree he may not definitely be "Top 10 worthy", he is very close. And when you match that up with our need to have a game 1-ready WR, and the drop-off with the next set of receivers, I would make him the pick.
My only caveat is if there are enough of QBs taken ahead of us, that a dynamic pass rusher is sitting there that we would love, then I would change my view and hope that Sterling Shepard is there at #40.
On the field you see a WR who lacks special movement that I expect to be confirmed by the workout.
It isn't about measurables. It's about a guy who will struggle to beat press vs NFL CBs and struggle even more to separate from these CBs down the field.
On the other hand, you have a WR like Coleman who can beat press and get open on anybody.
More offensive players in rd 1. Do any of you guys remember the defense last season? The defense needs serious attention. The top needs are a lb that can rush and cover and a fs that can cover over the top. Please don't say the young s on the roster. Jackson, is a blown out knee waiting to happen. Berhe, is a SS and Thompson blew out his Achilles which can be career ending. If they don't get a fs in the draft or sign a veteran they will be in big trouble again.
When it comes draft time, people quickly forget, and lose senses
On the field you see a WR who lacks special movement that I expect to be confirmed by the workout.
It isn't about measurables. It's about a guy who will struggle to beat press vs NFL CBs and struggle even more to separate from these CBs down the field.
On the other hand, you have a WR like Coleman who can beat press and get open on anybody.
On the field you see a WR who lacks special movement that I expect to be confirmed by the workout.
It isn't about measurables. It's about a guy who will struggle to beat press vs NFL CBs and struggle even more to separate from these CBs down the field.
On the other hand, you have a WR like Coleman who can beat press and get open on anybody.
Who do you want to bet on with a top 10 pick?
Guy with below average movement?
Guy with elite movement?
And a guy known for running four of the routes on the route tree.
Treadwell actually reminds me a lot of Nick's. His catches aren't spectacular, but his vision for YAC is really good. He can block. So he won't burn you, neither would Nick's save for a few plays.
If he can get open, make the tough catch and go up and get the ball, why does he need to light things up with speed. We have a guy who can do that already.
I'd rather not go WR in a weak WR class, but if Reese takes him at 10 odds are he's going to be a good player. Say what you want about Reese, but his record on WRs is pretty damn good.
My preference is Stanley or Conklin as the drop off in OT talent seems significant by our 2nd pick.
We really only need a solid possession guy and I think we can get that in the 3rd or 4th round this year.
I'd rather not go WR in a weak WR class, but if Reese takes him at 10 odds are he's going to be a good player. Say what you want about Reese, but his record on WRs is pretty damn good.
My preference is Stanley or Conklin as the drop off in OT talent seems significant by our 2nd pick.
We really only need a solid possession guy and I think we can get that in the 3rd or 4th round this year.
Wait....what?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but he is 50/50.
Good
Steve Smith
Hakeem Nick's
Odell Beckham Jr.
Bad
Rueben Randle
Sinorice Moss
Ramses Barden
Geremy Davis is an undecided, but it seems he hit a Homer with one, could've hit an earlier Homer save for injury and hit a dbl in Smith. Then he whiffed BIG TIME in Randle, Moss and Barden.
That's the big risk. Your talking very high pick. His movement is a huge red flag. Not just long speed. He won't plant and separate. He'll struggle at the line playing against good CBs with much better technique than he saw in college. They will press him and stick with him. I'd bet on it being a problem.
I also think it's a terrible gamble to draft a guy high in round 1 with this issue. Very few overcome it in the NFL. People talking about Dez Bryant and Jeffries as a comp for him? Those guys were much better athletes. Even with that Jeffries went in round 2.
is who came to mind immediately upon reading that draft summary, and as said above, the reservations about HN were that he had difficulty with separation and lacked top end speed. What stood out as comparable were the powerful hands, catching away from the body, large physical presence that shielded DBs. He may be more athletic and powerful than Hakeem was. We didn't have any issues taking him, albeit later in Round 1.
We need playmakers, period. I'd be ok with LT, Floyd, or then with solidifying the OL, Conklin, or Stanley. I don't believe in Lawson, saw him in the Bowl Division playoffs and he did not stand out, before coming off the field with the injury.
I'd rather not go WR in a weak WR class, but if Reese takes him at 10 odds are he's going to be a good player. Say what you want about Reese, but his record on WRs is pretty damn good.
My preference is Stanley or Conklin as the drop off in OT talent seems significant by our 2nd pick.
We really only need a solid possession guy and I think we can get that in the 3rd or 4th round this year.
Wait....what?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but he is 50/50.
Good
Steve Smith
Hakeem Nick's
Odell Beckham Jr.
Bad
Rueben Randle
Sinorice Moss
Ramses Barden
Geremy Davis is an undecided, but it seems he hit a Homer with one, could've hit an earlier Homer save for injury and hit a dbl in Smith. Then he whiffed BIG TIME in Randle, Moss and Barden.
Moss was Accorsi, not Reese.
Hits
Beckham (Pro Bowl WR)
Steve Smith (Pro Bowl caliber WR before injury)
Nicks (same as above)
Cruz (UFA) (same as above)
Mario Manningham
So Reese is 3 for 4 picking WR's in round 1-2, and Randle was picked at the end of the 2nd round. Randle wasn't that bad compared to his class. On the 3 he's hit on, all three were pro bowl caliber receivers. Beckham is one of the top 3 in the game right now. Nicks, Cruz, and Manningham were instrumental in our championship run in '11.
Overall, he's 5 for 8 with 4 being pro bowl caliber WR's. Unfortunately, injuries have cut short most of their respective careers. Any team in the league would take that record on WR's.
So like I said, you can hate on Reese for a lot of things, but drafting WR's isn't one of them.
Treadwell wouldn't be my pick, but if he is, I'm sure he'll be a player.
because of play making ability. People also forget that Treadwell wasnt dealing with shit defenses like the big 12 or shit QBs that Ole Miss has produced.
I'd be fine with either one. My question is, no lingering issue with Treadwell and his leg? I know he had a big year this year coming back from it. But I remember that injury, fucking gruesome.
That's the big risk. Your talking very high pick. His movement is a huge red flag. Not just long speed. He won't plant and separate. He'll struggle at the line playing against good CBs with much better technique than he saw in college. They will press him and stick with him. I'd bet on it being a problem.
I also think it's a terrible gamble to draft a guy high in round 1 with this issue. Very few overcome it in the NFL. People talking about Dez Bryant and Jeffries as a comp for him? Those guys were much better athletes. Even with that Jeffries went in round 2.
Treadwell led the league in receiving vs the toughest conference in football. A league littered with the best athletes in college football.
is who came to mind immediately upon reading that draft summary, and as said above, the reservations about HN were that he had difficulty with separation and lacked top end speed. What stood out as comparable were the powerful hands, catching away from the body, large physical presence that shielded DBs. He may be more athletic and powerful than Hakeem was. We didn't have any issues taking him, albeit later in Round 1.
We need playmakers, period. I'd be ok with LT, Floyd, or then with solidifying the OL, Conklin, or Stanley. I don't believe in Lawson, saw him in the Bowl Division playoffs and he did not stand out, before coming off the field with the injury.
You do realize that Lawson was injured early in the first qtr
Didn't do shit vs. good defenses last year. Check his game logs. He compiled stats vs crap teams and then went AWOL after KS when they faced good teams.
Didn't do shit vs. good defenses last year. Check his game logs. He compiled stats vs crap teams and then went AWOL after KS when they faced good teams.
Bust written all over him.
So you are referencing the last 4 games with their 3rd string QB which included a game in a monsoon?
When I see the film on him I don't see a guy being overthrown or a player afraid to go get the ball no matter what. Prior to his injury most reports had him as one of the top WR in the game nothing has changed since he got back on the field. If I have some question about him it's his weight he is presetly over 220 at his young age but could not do more than 13 reps on the bench. Now if you look at him he is not a speed guy however he gets open against man to man or the combination coverage very easily.
Can he run below 4.5 at his pro day is very important because 4.5 is a low 4.6 which will hurt his stock. Now then what happens if he runs 4.4 or below then all of a sudden the speed question becomes a non factor and the question becomes will he make it to 10. Prior to the injury I can't say that much talk was about his lack of speed and this kid was a beast. I see a player who performs at the highest level game after game at a position of need for us if the only negative is he can't break 4.5 in the fourty then is that a real concern when he does everything else with ease?
I'd rather not go WR in a weak WR class, but if Reese takes him at 10 odds are he's going to be a good player. Say what you want about Reese, but his record on WRs is pretty damn good.
My preference is Stanley or Conklin as the drop off in OT talent seems significant by our 2nd pick.
We really only need a solid possession guy and I think we can get that in the 3rd or 4th round this year.
Wait....what?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but he is 50/50.
Good
Steve Smith
Hakeem Nick's
Odell Beckham Jr.
Bad
Rueben Randle
Sinorice Moss
Ramses Barden
Geremy Davis is an undecided, but it seems he hit a Homer with one, could've hit an earlier Homer save for injury and hit a dbl in Smith. Then he whiffed BIG TIME in Randle, Moss and Barden.
Moss was Accorsi, not Reese.
Hits
Beckham (Pro Bowl WR)
Steve Smith (Pro Bowl caliber WR before injury)
Nicks (same as above)
Cruz (UFA) (same as above)
Mario Manningham
So Reese is 3 for 4 picking WR's in round 1-2, and Randle was picked at the end of the 2nd round. Randle wasn't that bad compared to his class. On the 3 he's hit on, all three were pro bowl caliber receivers. Beckham is one of the top 3 in the game right now. Nicks, Cruz, and Manningham were instrumental in our championship run in '11.
Overall, he's 5 for 8 with 4 being pro bowl caliber WR's. Unfortunately, injuries have cut short most of their respective careers. Any team in the league would take that record on WR's.
So like I said, you can hate on Reese for a lot of things, but drafting WR's isn't one of them.
Treadwell wouldn't be my pick, but if he is, I'm sure he'll be a player.
Fair enough. Thanks for the corrections...my statement was off the top of my head.
Fact is, I wouldn't be upset with the pick. At all. I just don't want to elevate Treadwell while diminishing someone like Conklin.
Injured his leg the last few games. He hurt it practicing at CB for the Oklahoma game. The plan was to have Coleman follow Shepard around and cover him. He injured his leg and they had QB issues which lead to the drop in production.
Watch a healthy Coleman vs Oklahoma and that is all you need to see. It's clear his game will work in the NFL. More upside and less risk than Treadwell. NFL will see it that way and he'll be drafted first.
He would work with Beckham. both guys can play outside and slot. Coleman can play out of the backfield too. The coach could use him like he used Cobb but he'll be even better because he's also a true deep threat.
such a low YPC number? All the other guys he's being compared with because of average test numbers were proven down the field threats in college. He hasn't been. He averaged 11.8 ypc for his career. If he can't make plays down the field in college, how will he in the pros? And if he can't get downfield, he's not worth the 10th pick.
I'd rather not go WR in a weak WR class, but if Reese takes him at 10 odds are he's going to be a good player. Say what you want about Reese, but his record on WRs is pretty damn good.
My preference is Stanley or Conklin as the drop off in OT talent seems significant by our 2nd pick.
We really only need a solid possession guy and I think we can get that in the 3rd or 4th round this year.
Wait....what?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but he is 50/50.
Good
Steve Smith
Hakeem Nick's
Odell Beckham Jr.
Bad
Rueben Randle
Sinorice Moss
Ramses Barden
Geremy Davis is an undecided, but it seems he hit a Homer with one, could've hit an earlier Homer save for injury and hit a dbl in Smith. Then he whiffed BIG TIME in Randle, Moss and Barden.
okay first off...moss was his only failure. barden we all knew was a project and at 6'6 it was a good pick and honestly he showed some ability but injuries hurt him some. and while we all HATE randle lets not act like he was garbage...the guy produced, yes he took plays off and he isnt my type of player but he has been a decent pro...
Injured his leg the last few games. He hurt it practicing at CB for the Oklahoma game. The plan was to have Coleman follow Shepard around and cover him. He injured his leg and they had QB issues which lead to the drop in production.
Watch a healthy Coleman vs Oklahoma and that is all you need to see. It's clear his game will work in the NFL. More upside and less risk than Treadwell. NFL will see it that way and he'll be drafted first.
He would work with Beckham. both guys can play outside and slot. Coleman can play out of the backfield too. The coach could use him like he used Cobb but he'll be even better because he's also a true deep threat.
Coleman beat up on crap teams where his athleticism mattered...where the gap in athleticism was so great that he could use that exclusively to be productive.
It's not going to be like that in the NFL. He won't be facing crap CB's who played at Lamar, Rice, or Texas Tech.
If he goes 1st round, he'll be remembered as one of the biggest busts in the draft.
such a low YPC number? All the other guys he's being compared with because of average test numbers were proven down the field threats in college. He hasn't been. He averaged 11.8 ypc for his career. If he can't make plays down the field in college, how will he in the pros? And if he can't get downfield, he's not worth the 10th pick.
Treadwell led the SEC in receiving. The best conference with the best athletes in college football. He was steady and productive even against the best teams -- went 5 for 80 and a TD vs. Bama last year. Went 6 for 71 and 3 TDs vs OK St in the Sugar Bowl.
Again, I'm not a fan of Treadwell or any WR at 10, but if we do go with Treadwell I'm confident he'll be a good player for us.
You liked the USC WR and Strong last year. They were some of your top guys right? How is that working out?
I liked Parker the best.
Jury is still out. To say I was "so wrong about the top WRs last year is baseless and foolish. And downright inaccurate.
I didn't like Cooper. That's it.
I said early on White and Parker would be drafted high and have the strong workouts. I wasn't wrong about that.
What I see with Treadwell is a risky top 10 pick because of the movement. Doesn't mean he may not be a player. Just I wouldn't gamble a high pick on it. I see Coleman as a guy with less risk. Higher floor. Higher ceiling.
appreciate your opinion but what exactly do you mean by "movement?" When I watch Treadwell, he's simply out muscling and just dominating across the middle and over the top. Now, I get that he's not as fast or probably quick as Coleman. But that's not all your measured by if you play wide receiver. There's plenty of fast guys out there that pan out to be nothing. Treadwell is a man amongst boys out there - that much is evident just by watching games.
appreciate your opinion but what exactly do you mean by "movement?" When I watch Treadwell, he's simply out muscling and just dominating across the middle and over the top. Now, I get that he's not as fast or probably quick as Coleman. But that's not all your measured by if you play wide receiver. There's plenty of fast guys out there that pan out to be nothing. Treadwell is a man amongst boys out there - that much is evident just by watching games.
KWALL is all about speed. If he doesn't run fast then he's an inferior draft prospect and FA. Doesn't matter how good of an actual football player he is or how he performs against good competition.
Plant and cut with explosion. Speed and acceleration. Quicks off the LOS.
I think he lacks what you look for in a top pick.
I get the Giants may want some size at WR. I'd much rather draft the TCU WR in round 2. In round 1 it's only Coleman at WR for me.
Fair enough. I just think that combine speed vs game speed is a totally different thing. Hopkins ran a 4.6 at the combine. When you watch him play, he's basically beating his man off the snap on every play. Not necessarily comparing Treadwell to Hopkins, but you get my drift. I think Treadwell is going to be a great pro. Wouldn't hate the pick at all - we need a good playmaker at 10. Hell - we just need good football players and he's one.
Ran a 4.6 and a 7.00 3 cone. Not considered fast or quick by any means. All he's doing right now is basically becoming an all pro by his 3rd season. This is just one example but I'd hesitate to peg Treadwell as not explosive just by his combine or pro day numbers. Watch him play football, he's schooling dudes out there
The more I think about, forget WR's early. Look to win games in the front 7 on defense and with the OLine. Thus I'd draft in rounds 1 and 2 an OT and either a DE or DT. Doesn't matter whether OT or DE/Dt gets drafted in round 1. Take BPA of the positions or trade down. Then in round 3 get the other DE or DT. It's not like Giants will go from miserable to Super Bowl champs in one year.
I'm hopeful they get a Safety in FA. Like a Jefferson who is RFA but they might not be able to afford.
The following year the Giants can draft a WR either in round 1 or 2. Usually WR's taken in early rounds can make a big splash. We can always take a WR in Round 4 this year though I'd be more interested in a LB or secondary. Go after Boldin if we want a quality WR for the short term.
Not about the workouts. He hasn't even worked out yet. The guy I see on the field? I expect the workout to confirm what I see on the field. And then I expect the draft guys to stop taking about him as a high first round pick.
He has skills. But I wouldn't want to use a high pick on those skills.
Didn't do shit vs. good defenses last year. Check his game logs. He compiled stats vs crap teams and then went AWOL after KS when they faced good teams.
Bust written all over him.
You know he was injured right?! According to Baylor HC Art Briles he suffered a sports hernia in practice prior to the Oklahoma game on November 14th. Yet he played through the injury. That's the kind of guy I want on my team.
First of all I didn't know he challenged me often.
Even stranger you're trying to keep score.
Well, you sound off like you are an expert of the field and yet it seems you are just like us....enthusiasts.
Oh, and way to go out on a limb..." and Parker will both be drafted high in '15!"
Dude, I appreciate your insight, but all of your prognostications seem to fall in the 50/50 range. Yet you keep making declarative statements and declaring Sy's stuff wrong when he is at least humble about his statements. You come off as this college player know-it-all who gets down on certain players, and then spends an entire off season trashing those players.
Again, nothing against you and we all appreciate your insight, but a lot of what you say is argued by those paid a lot to do this kind of work. Maybe tone it down is all.
Didn't do shit vs. good defenses last year. Check his game logs. He compiled stats vs crap teams and then went AWOL after KS when they faced good teams.
Bust written all over him.
You know he was injured right?! According to Baylor HC Art Briles he suffered a sports hernia in practice prior to the Oklahoma game on November 14th. Yet he played through the injury. That's the kind of guy I want on my team.
An injury flag is the guy you want at 10 overall? In a weak WR class?
Look I don't want any WR at 10. But I definitely don't want an injured workout warrior who beat up on shitty comp the year he comes out.
You're full of shit. I keep declaring Sys stuff wrong? That's is 100% bull shit. Since your keeping score tel me once where I said he was "wrongl" about anything.
In this case I don't even know who he likes at WR this year. He's big on Treadwell? That's news to me. Liking another player more isn't calling him or anybody else put.
For the life of me, I just don't get why people speak in absolutes Â
when it comes to the draft. First of all, and most importantly, who the Giants select at 10 all comes down to who goes in the first 9 picks. And obviously we don't know how those first 9 picks will go down. But that's the key factor here. There are numerous scenarios where Treadwell could be the BPA at 10.
Which leads me to the second pertinent issue at hand: analysts and draft prognosticators boards are often wildly different than those of the actual teams. We see it every year, a handful of guys graded as 2nd or even 3rd round picks go in the first round. And a few guys who are "surefire 1st rounders" slide out of the first round. Happens every year. Without fail. And that's not even mentioning the fact that when the Giants meet with a player very little should be taken from it. How many times has a round selection stated something to the effect of "I didn't even meet with the Giants, I was surprised when they called"? Justin Pugh and Aaron Ross are examples of this.
Long story short: don't read into it when the Giants meet with a player. As has often been said, when they meet with a player it's often just due diligence, getting some answers to questions they have regarding the player in question. Secondly and more importantly, ignore hat draft sites and freelance analysts have to say. With a few exceptions most are on a completely different page than the actual teams. As a fan the best quality you can have regarding the draft is simply patience. We have a minute fraction of the knowledge that the teams do regarding prospects. For us this is fun. For them it's their job. Reserve judge,met until the player sees the field and trust in the process. Speaking in absolutes or getting pissed about a pick is just silly because in plain English, we don't know squat compared to what the teams and their scouting departments know.
An injury flag is the guy you want at 10 overall? In a weak WR class?
Look I don't want any WR at 10. But I definitely don't want an injured workout warrior who beat up on shitty comp the year he comes out.
Sorry to tell you, but you sound dumb. Sy just said him & Treadwell have similar grades. Coleman has also had far better production & is a WAY better athlete.
You do realize that Treadwell has missed the same amount of games as Coleman has right? Coleman played through the sports hernia & only missed 1 game. Marshawn Lynch had the same injury & missed 6 games this past year.
Workout warrior?! You do realize he had 3800+ yards & 35 TDs in 34 career games right? 3200+ yards & 34 TDs were on offense. He had 20 TDs through 8 games. Treadwell had 21 in his 35 game career.
Go back & watch the TCU/Baylor game. It was a monsoon. Those last 4 games the 2nd, 3rd, 4th & 5th QB all threw passes. The WR can't do anything if the QBs can't get them the ball. Which if you watched you'd know they couldn't. Between the 4 QBs who threw passes in those last 4 games they had a combined completion percentage of 45.0.
So we shouldn't have taken Odell, because he beat up on shitty teams the year he came out?!? He also had a way better QB then Coleman does. Also had Jarvis Landry on the other side of him to take away pressure on him.
In 5 games against Alabama, Florida, Auburn, Texas A&M & Iowa he had a whopping 233 yards & 0 TDs.
Odell had 8 TDs his final year. He scored his 8 TDs against UAB (3), Kent State (1), Mississippi State (2) & Furman (2)
RE: RE: name me the last big time receiver that average Â
such a low YPC number? All the other guys he's being compared with because of average test numbers were proven down the field threats in college. He hasn't been. He averaged 11.8 ypc for his career. If he can't make plays down the field in college, how will he in the pros? And if he can't get downfield, he's not worth the 10th pick.
Treadwell led the SEC in receiving. The best conference with the best athletes in college football. He was steady and productive even against the best teams -- went 5 for 80 and a TD vs. Bama last year. Went 6 for 71 and 3 TDs vs OK St in the Sugar Bowl.
Again, I'm not a fan of Treadwell or any WR at 10, but if we do go with Treadwell I'm confident he'll be a good player for us.
Great. But what WR worth the tenth pick average 11.8 yards per catch in college? Look at the stats for all the other average time speed guys who performed well in the pros. Hopkins, Nicks, Dez, Fitzgerald, Jeffrey - all made many more plays downfield in college and had YPC numbers to reflect that.
the QB is late and short with the ball 99% of the time on the plays where he doesn't have separation. Guy is constantly having to slow down for the ball. Also if you watch his games the QB only looks at half the field. Frankly, while he has a big arm, the Ole Miss QB has terrible field vision. There are plenty of times where Treadwell is wide open where the guy never even looks to the left side of the field.
Not saying the Giants should take him, but Treadwell is a very good football player. He blocks, he battles and he makes big plays against quality defenders.
You were sure wrong about Cooper -- just like you are wrong about Treadwell -- as in both are/were going to come off the board first and both should/did come off the board first
Devante Parker is no Cooper - and Coleman is no Treadwell
and the 13.2 he averaged last year are perfectly fine. Maclin averaged 12.4 (albeit in a very different offense). Treadwell's average is skewed downward by his 8.4 in 2013.
you take Treadwell and he is a successful WR. In 4 years how are you going to keep him and ODB? ODB is not going anywhere (barring injury) and will get paid.
It may be silly to think that far down the road but either 1) you have too much of your cap tied up in WRs and 2) Neglect the defense.
I see the need to compliment ODB but who really complimented him last year? Randle was awful. The kid that came over from Dallas wasn't terrible and he is still here. Cruz, as much as I love him, I cant count on him.
I'm much happier using a 2nd or 3rd on a WR than my #1 pick with this defense and a top 3 NFL receiver already on the roster.
If the player is that valuable -- that you can't afford to keep them with a cap that keeps increasing by 10 million -- you either properly manage the cap and pay them, or engineer a trade in their fourth year -- so you can get some future picks and replace them with a cost controlled option.
RE: the idea that Treadwell doesn't get separation is a myth Â
In comment 12875887 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
the QB is late and short with the ball 99% of the time on the plays where he doesn't have separation. Guy is constantly having to slow down for the ball. Also if you watch his games the QB only looks at half the field. Frankly, while he has a big arm, the Ole Miss QB has terrible field vision. There are plenty of times where Treadwell is wide open where the guy never even looks to the left side of the field.
Not saying the Giants should take him, but Treadwell is a very good football player. He blocks, he battles and he makes big plays against quality defenders.
16 passes defended by DBs last year against Treadwell is an alarming stat, compounded with a medical concern coming off a broken leg to end 2014. Good player, but not at pick 10.
RE: I just can't look at this free agency season Â
You are right Bill they haven't ignored the defense -- they've made the moves they needed to and now the holes on defense have gone from 8 to 3 and the holes on offense are like 2
The Giants need to replenish starters at WR2 (Randle), Tackle (Beatty/Schwartz), FS (Rolle), MLB (Beason), Slot CB (still vacant from Thurmond injury )
Seems doable -- Treadwell would certainly fill a need there
in fact -- I can live with either Stanley/Conklin, or Treadwell, or Hargreaves, or Floyd at pick #10 - and then get me two more of those positions in the 2nd and 3rd rounds in the draft -- then add 2 more FAs to fill in
Reese did great in FA so far in my opinion, is playing it very smart and measured, and set the Giants up Beautifully for the draft to get the biggest bang for the buck so to speak.
I absolutely don't buy the KMart bargain jigger bug approach -- why get a lower first round filly like Coleman when you can get a premiere top ten stallion like Treadwell
RE: the argument that you don't pick someone because of the roster Â
If the player is that valuable -- that you can't afford to keep them with a cap that keeps increasing by 10 million -- you either properly manage the cap and pay them, or engineer a trade in their fourth year -- so you can get some future picks and replace them with a cost controlled option.
The Giants wouldn't hesitate to spend another first rounder on a WR. A cost-controlled starter for a few years at a premium position. I don't see the downside.
That's why they love picking premium positions in the 1st. WR, CB, and DE are expensive positions to fill. Just look at what they had to spend to get Vernon and Jenkins.
into a corner by allowing Randall to walk away and leave the team with no viable #2 WR, since we haven't signed any WR yet it could very well be that we'll go that way in the first round or at least the second....
You always have to keep the current and the future in mind Â
But I'm not sure that anyone would ever give up a championship now because it might cost too much in the future. Not saying that another WR gives us a SB, but success now might override concerns about keeping a player down the road.
into a corner by allowing Randall to walk away and leave the team with no viable #2 WR, since we haven't signed any WR yet it could very well be that we'll go that way in the first round or at least the second....
Randle wasn't a viable #2 WR.
Why is it that the overall BBI opinion of Giants players improves when the player goes to another team?
Randle was a lazy underachiever, good riddance.
RE: RE: looks like the Giants painted themselves Â
into a corner by allowing Randall to walk away and leave the team with no viable #2 WR, since we haven't signed any WR yet it could very well be that we'll go that way in the first round or at least the second....
Randle wasn't a viable #2 WR.
Why is it that the overall BBI opinion of Giants players improves when the player goes to another team?
Randle was a lazy underachiever, good riddance.
maybe, but he's better than what we have and better than any other non-draft option. It's not so much that he was good but it's that we are irrefutably worse now.
Those who don't think he is all that don't realize he is a number 2 to ODELL BECKHAM JR. It is not like we have no Wrs and we draft him and hope for the best. Also, if cruz is back to form, the giants will be fined $500,000 and a draft pick for having such a sick offense.
An injury flag is the guy you want at 10 overall? In a weak WR class?
Look I don't want any WR at 10. But I definitely don't want an injured workout warrior who beat up on shitty comp the year he comes out.
Sorry to tell you, but you sound dumb. Sy just said him & Treadwell have similar grades. Coleman has also had far better production & is a WAY better athlete.
You do realize that Treadwell has missed the same amount of games as Coleman has right? Coleman played through the sports hernia & only missed 1 game. Marshawn Lynch had the same injury & missed 6 games this past year.
Workout warrior?! You do realize he had 3800+ yards & 35 TDs in 34 career games right? 3200+ yards & 34 TDs were on offense. He had 20 TDs through 8 games. Treadwell had 21 in his 35 game career.
Go back & watch the TCU/Baylor game. It was a monsoon. Those last 4 games the 2nd, 3rd, 4th & 5th QB all threw passes. The WR can't do anything if the QBs can't get them the ball. Which if you watched you'd know they couldn't. Between the 4 QBs who threw passes in those last 4 games they had a combined completion percentage of 45.0.
Workout warrior was harsh... Coleman does have numbers albeit vs crap competition. I just don't think it's smart to take Kendall Wright 10th overall.
RE: RE: I just can't look at this free agency season Â
You are right Bill they haven't ignored the defense -- they've made the moves they needed to and now the holes on defense have gone from 8 to 3 and the holes on offense are like 2
The Giants need to replenish starters at WR2 (Randle), Tackle (Beatty/Schwartz), FS (Rolle), MLB (Beason), Slot CB (still vacant from Thurmond injury )
Seems doable -- Treadwell would certainly fill a need there
in fact -- I can live with either Stanley/Conklin, or Treadwell, or Hargreaves, or Floyd at pick #10 - and then get me two more of those positions in the 2nd and 3rd rounds in the draft -- then add 2 more FAs to fill in
Reese did great in FA so far in my opinion, is playing it very smart and measured, and set the Giants up Beautifully for the draft to get the biggest bang for the buck so to speak.
I absolutely don't buy the KMart bargain jigger bug approach -- why get a lower first round filly like Coleman when you can get a premiere top ten stallion like Treadwell
1-- How are they at the starting DT other than Snacks?
2-- On passing downs how are both DT's?
3-- Do you expect Giants to make the Super Bowl next year?
4-- Do you think Giants will re-sign JPP?
you take Treadwell and he is a successful WR. In 4 years how are you going to keep him and ODB? ODB is not going anywhere (barring injury) and will get paid.
It may be silly to think that far down the road but either 1) you have too much of your cap tied up in WRs and 2) Neglect the defense.
I see the need to compliment ODB but who really complimented him last year? Randle was awful. The kid that came over from Dallas wasn't terrible and he is still here. Cruz, as much as I love him, I cant count on him.
I'm much happier using a 2nd or 3rd on a WR than my #1 pick with this defense and a top 3 NFL receiver already on the roster.
Don't take a WR. I'm with you. We were okay without a 2nd WR. Get Boldin in FA. Next year we can draft after we keep building the other holes preferably front 7 on D and OT.
into a corner by allowing Randall to walk away and leave the team with no viable #2 WR, since we haven't signed any WR yet it could very well be that we'll go that way in the first round or at least the second....
Jersey55... I tend to disagree with you about allowing Randall to walk!
A team is never painting itself in a corner when it allows a guy like RR to move on.
Why?
Because his game is on film, and when the players are in film study and they see RR's game, they see a lot of bad things that lead to losing football.
I hear time again that RR's knees were a big part of the problem.
I dunno?
What I do know is two things:
(1) Up to the beginning of last season I was the #1 RR fan on BBI and I felt he was much maligned;
(2) But then I watched him this year quit on Eli when the game was on the line (New Orleans for example) and that's when I had enough.
Those who don't think he is all that don't realize he is a number 2 to ODELL BECKHAM JR. It is not like we have no Wrs and we draft him and hope for the best. Also, if cruz is back to form, the giants will be fined $500,000 and a draft pick for having such a sick offense.
That is the one reason I'd be ok with Treadwell. I just don't think he's a star #1 WR. I do think he'd be very very good as the #2 across from Odell.
Odell is the reason I don't think we go WR at 10. You don't need to spend a premium pick on a #2 IMO. I think you can plug in a lot of guys in this draft & they'd be very successful across from Odell. For some reason I think we go either Tyler Boyd or Braxton Miller in the 2nd. Versatile players who they can move around & use like the Packers use Randall Cobb.
If you think he's Kendall Wright 2.0 then you just haven't watched him play. Wright ran a 4.61. Coleman ran in the 4.3s.
Like I said he missed 1 game with a sports hernia (Marshawn missed 6 games with the same injury). He would have tore the last 4 opponents up if he wasn't playing hurt & wasn't playing with 3rd, 4th & 5th string QBs.
Also like I said Sy has a similar grade on Coleman & Treadwell & in his latest mock draft he has Treadwell to us at 10.
when it comes to the draft. First of all, and most importantly, who the Giants select at 10 all comes down to who goes in the first 9 picks. And obviously we don't know how those first 9 picks will go down. But that's the key factor here. There are numerous scenarios where Treadwell could be the BPA at 10.
Which leads me to the second pertinent issue at hand: analysts and draft prognosticators boards are often wildly different than those of the actual teams. We see it every year, a handful of guys graded as 2nd or even 3rd round picks go in the first round. And a few guys who are "surefire 1st rounders" slide out of the first round. Happens every year. Without fail. And that's not even mentioning the fact that when the Giants meet with a player very little should be taken from it. How many times has a round selection stated something to the effect of "I didn't even meet with the Giants, I was surprised when they called"? Justin Pugh and Aaron Ross are examples of this.
Long story short: don't read into it when the Giants meet with a player. As has often been said, when they meet with a player it's often just due diligence, getting some answers to questions they have regarding the player in question. Secondly and more importantly, ignore hat draft sites and freelance analysts have to say. With a few exceptions most are on a completely different page than the actual teams. As a fan the best quality you can have regarding the draft is simply patience. We have a minute fraction of the knowledge that the teams do regarding prospects. For us this is fun. For them it's their job. Reserve judge,met until the player sees the field and trust in the process. Speaking in absolutes or getting pissed about a pick is just silly because in plain English, we don't know squat compared to what the teams and their scouting departments know.
It is posts like these ... that make me wish BBI had a "thumbs up" option. I have nothing to say j_rud - I just completely agree with you.
Treadwell, more than the other top college WRs, is the type of Â
receiver Eli does well with. Long body frame and somebody that snatches the ball out of the air with defenders around, much like Nicks and even Plaxico.
We all know Eli puts the ball in harms way a good bit, and he asks his receivers to go get it. Treadwell is that guy.
Again, don't know if he is a top 10 pick but is close.
And not sure I "buy" the argument of you don't use a pick like that for a #2 guy. Are we saying we don't want to pick a clear cut starting WR?
You didn't answer my question. So you wouldn't have taken Odell? He had good not great #s against shitty teams. Had shitty #s against good teams.
That's a fair point re: Beckham. There are reasons why he didn't perform better that were outside of his control but I won't make excuses.
I just have a bias against guys like Coleman who come from type of system Baylor uses. I don't think those guys transition well to the pros. I also think there's a huge talent discrepancy top to bottom between the SEC and Baylor's conference. That means guys like Treadwell have a higher floor.
Again, I don't want any WR at 10. But if the choice is Treadwell or Coleman, I'm going Treadwell because he has a higher floor with comparable upside.
ALl these years go by and you still haven't learned a thing.
Still pigeon holes guys based on the uniform or conference. It's unbelievable that you stick with it but damn you are consistent.
You didn't like QB Rodgers because he went to Cal and Tedford QBs fail.
You didn't like WR Jeffries because you "can't pick skill position players from South Carolina".
And on and on and on.
It isn't about the uniform. It never is.
People here comparing Coleman to any other Baylor player. It's nonsense. His ability and NFL potential has nothing to do with Wright, Josh Gordon, or any other player from Baylor.
Hodge was first team SEC for Ole Miss. Few years ago. More yards and TDs than Treadwell. Similar size and is bet a similar workout. So why can't we pigeon hole Tteadwell as just another Ole Miss WR?
When you scout/look at guys you look at the name on the back of the jersey & not the helmet they wear.
If Josh Gordon had no off the field stuff would you not draft him because he plays for Baylor? That's stupid IMO. He's been very good when he's on the field with shit QBs. Kendall Wright has had absolutely terrible QBs & can't stay healthy. The one year he played all 16 games he had over 1000 yards.
Back to Odell. Would you not draft LSU WRs because previous players have failed? Devery Henderson, Josh Reed, Brandon Lafell, Russell Shepard, Early Doucet, Rueben Randle, Craig Davis, Michael Clayton & Dwayne Bowe are all LSU WRs that haven't been any better in the NFL then Josh Gordon & Kendall Wright.
don't go WR in Rd 1, then I think Coleman or Shepard could be nice picks in Rd 2 to add to the roster.
I do think Coleman's best attribute is just to use his explosiveness to go vertical. I would just prefer the better hands and likely better route runner of Treadwell.
RE: Treadwell, more than the other top college WRs, is the type of Â
receiver Eli does well with. Long body frame and somebody that snatches the ball out of the air with defenders around, much like Nicks and even Plaxico.
We all know Eli puts the ball in harms way a good bit, and he asks his receivers to go get it. Treadwell is that guy.
Again, don't know if he is a top 10 pick but is close.
And not sure I "buy" the argument of you don't use a pick like that for a #2 guy. Are we saying we don't want to pick a clear cut starting WR?
I'd rather have a clear cut OT than a WR which would then allow Eli to be better and the running game better. Our passing game was "good enough." I want to win games up front. Elite defenses can stuff a good a terrific wr core.
I would also like to be more consistent with a pass rush and stopping the running game. Thus I'd like DT's / DE's or maybe a LB.
If the Giants do draft Treadwell, do not be surprised that he turns into Eli's fave target before long. Manning has history with the kid from attending Ole Miss off-season workouts & Tread has been to the Manning camp as a counselor. The guy is a young Anquan Boldin with sensational power going after the ball. I think if he runs in the low 45s on Monday, he will secure a top ten pick & do not discount the Rams trying to trade up for him
I'd be very surprised if he ever became Eli's favorite target. He's nowhere near as good as Odell. The Giants absolutely have to force feed the ball to Odell. He needs to be targeted at least 10 times a game.
When you scout/look at guys you look at the name on the back of the jersey & not the helmet they wear.
If Josh Gordon had no off the field stuff would you not draft him because he plays for Baylor? That's stupid IMO. He's been very good when he's on the field with shit QBs. Kendall Wright has had absolutely terrible QBs & can't stay healthy. The one year he played all 16 games he had over 1000 yards.
Back to Odell. Would you not draft LSU WRs because previous players have failed? Devery Henderson, Josh Reed, Brandon Lafell, Russell Shepard, Early Doucet, Rueben Randle, Craig Davis, Michael Clayton & Dwayne Bowe are all LSU WRs that haven't been any better in the NFL then Josh Gordon & Kendall Wright.
I don't think Coleman is a good fit for how the Giants are currently constructed and what they need. Everything I've read says he's a potentially explosive deep threat who has issues with drops and catching vs zone coverage and going over the middle. Struggles at times getting off vs physical CBs. That tells me his NFL ceiling is probably something like Desean Jackson.
What the Giants need is a physical and reliable guy who can keep CBs honest but makes plays in the middle of the field and RZ. Earlier someone compared Treadwell to Alshon Jeffery. That would be the type of WR to pair with Beckham.
As far as institutional/scheme bias goes, of course you scout the name but you still have to consider it in my opinion. RG3 has been a bust. Say what you want about Wright but he hasn't lived up to the 20th overall pick. Gordon is talented but can't avoid suspension.
The Giants need a safe, clean prospect at 10. They shouldn't be picking a guy they have to explain or make excuses for.
Doesn't have the cushion-eating, vertical speed to scare cornerbacks. Cornerbacks will crowd his underneath routes from off-man coverage. Benefitted with several easy catches in space against zone coverage. Struggled to free himself from press coverage against LSU’s Tre’Davious White and may have separation issues in pros against quick cornerbacks. Takes time to gear down into breaks once he gets speed up. Could stand to be more physical in his release against press. Had more focus drops in 2015 than over previous two seasons. Suffered season-ending injury in November of 2014 with broken fibula and dislocated ankle.
I don't really care about a route tree and comments like this:
Quote:
Like many spread offense receivers, he has a limited route tree, really only runs about four different routes.
I don't get too caught up in the route tree talk. If a guy can run and get open he can work on adding a few routes. BTW, that comment above is about Treadwell.
On a #2 WR. It's not a #2 WR, it's a second WR; it's a symmetry WR. Not different, IMO, than calling a ROT a #2 tackle, and people don't seem to have an issue with picking one of those (or a #3 DE). To me, a true #2 anything is the guy who backs up a spot, not a guy who starts at a position.
J-rud is peace maker but Giants are going for War Â
Your comments are truly passive-aggressive. It doesn't sound like a strategic analysis, as it pertains to winning this type of competition. This is not posturing, believe me this is War.
When you say "Trust in the Process", and "don't read into it when we meet a player" How many meetings do you have like that?
Your making statements that are essentially indecisive, with no conclusive strategy.
Cancel the Theory in your mind about "don't read into meeting a player" That would be considered a waste of time. There is such a technique as the Smoke screen especially in competition. Considering that process would not require the Giants to continue that type of nonsense.
The Giants keep their list of valued 10th picks under close security. The "PROCESS" of the past PAST drafts were not evaluated as thoroughly, and may now include, dedication checks, physicals and the bonding of character that surrounds the players goals and ethics , as well as the beliefs of the organization.
makes a lot of sense to me. We don't have a dynamic RB or TE. Eagles signing Randle, helps us, as much as hurts them. I don't have the staff to compile the exact numbers, but we all watch every down. I would gamble that Eli has as many interceptions throwing to Wrong Route Reuben, as the rest of the WR's combined. Another reliable target who will fight for the ball and run the right route is fine with me.
RE: Personally I think it's a mistake to say we shouldn't spent a #10 Â
On a #2 WR. It's not a #2 WR, it's a second WR; it's a symmetry WR. Not different, IMO, than calling a ROT a #2 tackle, and people don't seem to have an issue with picking one of those (or a #3 DE). To me, a true #2 anything is the guy who backs up a spot, not a guy who starts at a position.
I disagree. Our offense passing was pretty good passing last year even while having weak wr's other than OBJ. But it wasn't good running the ball. And you need as best "security" as you can get with having a naging Eli. Thus OT is a better pick
AND
That doesn't even include the defense. For example who is our starting DT besides Snacks? Who is our S?
RE: RE: Personally I think it's a mistake to say we shouldn't spent a #10 Â
That doesn't even include the defense. For example who is our starting DT besides Snacks?
Exactly!! What is Johnathan Hankins? He is a two-down DT whose Rookie Contract will expire after this year. And JPP will probably be gone too. What is the Giants expectation of Hankins?
I will say my expectation of Hankins is clearly higher Â
Again I respect your difference of opinion but I don't actually think you've ever watched Treadwell play in a game, or at least it sounds that way. It sounds like you are reading a bunch of scattered scouts opinions on him and then posting them. I judge a player based on the eye test. And every game I have watched Ole Miss play, he is nearly unstoppable.
Again I respect your difference of opinion but I don't actually think you've ever watched Treadwell play in a game, or at least it sounds that way. It sounds like you are reading a bunch of scattered scouts opinions on him and then posting them. I judge a player based on the eye test. And every game I have watched Ole Miss play, he is nearly unstoppable.
If you're trained eye was so good then why is he not ranked higher? Not trying to be difficult. No malice. But he seems at tops to be rated 10th. You're calling him "near unstoppable."
Again I respect your difference of opinion but I don't actually think you've ever watched Treadwell play in a game, or at least it sounds that way. It sounds like you are reading a bunch of scattered scouts opinions on him and then posting them. I judge a player based on the eye test. And every game I have watched Ole Miss play, he is nearly unstoppable.
If you're trained eye was so good then why is he not ranked higher? Not trying to be difficult. No malice. But he seems at tops to be rated 10th. You're calling him "near unstoppable."
Understood - no malice here either - I love these types of threads because people have different opinions on players and why or how they would or wouldn't fit with the Giants.
That being said - being ranked 10th overall as a wideout is pretty special no? By no means am I saying he's the best player in this draft. But at 10? Sure - he's in that 8-15 conversation.
I've watched at least 15 live games of Treadwell Â
I've went back & rewatched every game I could find on the Internet & I agree with KWALL completely. Lance Zierlein on NFL.com basically says the same things that KWALL is saying.
After seeing Sy say he had him going to the Giants I'm gonna go back & rewatch him to see if I'm missing something.
When I watch Treadwell I see a guy who doesn't get a lot of separation, allows a lot of passes to be batted down, doesn't have deep speed & makes a lot of his catches in wide open zones.
Watching the Oklahoma State game right now. Early in the game they sent him deep. He was blanketed & allowed an easy INT.
His first TD was for around 40 yards & he didn't separate. CB was right there. Treadwell didn't high point the ball. Got lucky the CB made a terrible play on the ball & it fell into Treadwell's arms.
His second TD was a nice play in which he beat the CB to the inside. Still had very little separation & bad technique from the CB.
His third TD was just awful coverage & Treadwell was left wide open.
He had 6 catches for 71 yards & 3 TDs. Outside of his 2nd TD there was nothing impressive about his performance. It was more about horrible defensive backs then it was Treadwell showing off his skills. He only had 1 contested catch & he didn't even try to high point it. Should have been an INT, but the CB made a terrible play on the ball. Going back & watching it I thought he did better while watching it live.
RE: I've watched at least 15 live games of Treadwell Â
I've went back & rewatched every game I could find on the Internet & I agree with KWALL completely. Lance Zierlein on NFL.com basically says the same things that KWALL is saying.
After seeing Sy say he had him going to the Giants I'm gonna go back & rewatch him to see if I'm missing something.
When I watch Treadwell I see a guy who doesn't get a lot of separation, allows a lot of passes to be batted down, doesn't have deep speed & makes a lot of his catches in wide open zones.
Watching the Oklahoma State game right now. Early in the game they sent him deep. He was blanketed & allowed an easy INT.
His first TD was for around 40 yards & he didn't separate. CB was right there. Treadwell didn't high point the ball. Got lucky the CB made a terrible play on the ball & it fell into Treadwell's arms.
His second TD was a nice play in which he beat the CB to the inside. Still had very little separation & bad technique from the CB.
His third TD was just awful coverage & Treadwell was left wide open.
He had 6 catches for 71 yards & 3 TDs. Outside of his 2nd TD there was nothing impressive about his performance. It was more about horrible defensive backs then it was Treadwell showing off his skills. He only had 1 contested catch & he didn't even try to high point it. Should have been an INT, but the CB made a terrible play on the ball. Going back & watching it I thought he did better while watching it live.
Ok so if you consider a 6 for 71 and 3 TD performance not that impressive - how are we supposed to measure games in which he played well? Cmon man. So basically all his catches and his TDs are all the other guys fault - got it.
His 2nd TD was a nice play. The other 2 were horrible plays by the CB. Neither of them will happen against NFL CBs. The first TD was for 34 yards. The rest of the game he had 5 catches for 37 yards. Is that impressive to you? Ole Miss had 2 players in that game with more yards then Treadwell.
Again I respect your difference of opinion but I don't actually think you've ever watched Treadwell play in a game, or at least it sounds that way. It sounds like you are reading a bunch of scattered scouts opinions on him and then posting them. I judge a player based on the eye test. And every game I have watched Ole Miss play, he is nearly unstoppable.
If you're trained eye was so good then why is he not ranked higher? Not trying to be difficult. No malice. But he seems at tops to be rated 10th. You're calling him "near unstoppable."
Understood - no malice here either - I love these types of threads because people have different opinions on players and why or how they would or wouldn't fit with the Giants.
That being said - being ranked 10th overall as a wideout is pretty special no? By no means am I saying he's the best player in this draft. But at 10? Sure - he's in that 8-15 conversation.
He really hasn't been in the 8 conversation much at all. I think 10 is about tops but more in the teens. Charlie Campbell has him 23. He doesn't seem that special. And as a result we could use more "frontline" picks.
Again I respect your difference of opinion but I don't actually think you've ever watched Treadwell play in a game, or at least it sounds that way. It sounds like you are reading a bunch of scattered scouts opinions on him and then posting them. I judge a player based on the eye test. And every game I have watched Ole Miss play, he is nearly unstoppable.
If you're trained eye was so good then why is he not ranked higher? Not trying to be difficult. No malice. But he seems at tops to be rated 10th. You're calling him "near unstoppable."
Understood - no malice here either - I love these types of threads because people have different opinions on players and why or how they would or wouldn't fit with the Giants.
That being said - being ranked 10th overall as a wideout is pretty special no? By no means am I saying he's the best player in this draft. But at 10? Sure - he's in that 8-15 conversation.
He really hasn't been in the 8 conversation much at all. I think 10 is about tops but more in the teens. Charlie Campbell has him 23. He doesn't seem that special. And as a result we could use more "frontline" picks.
And since Charlie Campbell has him at 23 - that means he's the 23rd best player? Day of the 2014 draft, Campbell had Beckham 17th and Allen Robinson 58th. How'd that work out? Mock drafts and rankings mean absolutely nothing. It's work ethic, love of the game, and just overall being good at football that propel players in this league to be great. Not the combine and not pro days. If you watch Treadwell play and listen to him speak, you can just tell he's going to be a stud. Some guys just have it, some don't. I guarantee you he will be a very good to great NFL player.
I am down on Floyd is the interviews. He just seems to have zero energy. Not sure if it means anything, but he just doesn't seem to have a ton of interest in the whole process. I could be dead wrong, but he just feels like someone that isn't going to pan out.
would LOVE Conklin at 10 and not Treadwell have to be kidding themselves. Conklin is a classic non athlete, but great football player and a gamer. Same exact thing could be said for Treadwell. Not an all world athlete, but the dude just has it, that can easily be seen on the field.
I think Treadwell makes us better because he is enough of a threat to catch it and run through the secondary. How many times was Odell bracketed and we either tried to force it to him leading to an incompletion or a monster hit on ODB, or had to throw it to Randle or a TE where it was a 50/50 shot of our guy hanging on to it?
I'd rather the size and physicality of Treadwell over the Mike Wallaceness of Coleman. Coleman may be fine, but he runs half the route tree and strikes me as a dropper.
and was rebuilt into the QB he is but please keep up the misinformation KWALL.
Baylor's scheme and the Big12 in general, lend themselves to huge numbers. That's not necessarily a bad thing but it does raise questions about how good those players actually are.
...the Giants generally meet with players because they have questions they want answered. Either physical health or character questions. The fact they are meeting with Treadwell means there is interest, why wouldn't there be, he's the top WR in this draft(though not on the level of the OBJ's, Green's, Cooper's of the league). It also means there are uncertainties they hope to clear up. It's not necessarily a sign indicative either way in terms of drafting the young man.
would LOVE Conklin at 10 and not Treadwell have to be kidding themselves. Conklin is a classic non athlete, but great football player and a gamer. Same exact thing could be said for Treadwell. Not an all world athlete, but the dude just has it, that can easily be seen on the field.
The OT will help not only in protecting our QB/preserving him a highly valued player from getting beat up who doesn't scramble well, along with improving the running game.
IMO that is superior to 2nd wr/ though a starter. Premiere defensive teams will shut down a terrific wr core that doesn't have a running game.
So with that said I want an OT and I want my team to BE that terrific premiere offensive team. SO I'm with drafting the OT and also drafting defense.
I don't see it...
No chance.
Doctson and Coleman are better players.
Probably. He's not the 10th best player in the draft but the stat geeks who love their fantasy football will be happy.
Reese loves to lick WRs early. Even when there are bigger holes to fill and better talent available
I think people underestimate our WR need.
Lacks sprinter speed, but faster than expected due to strong, decisive strides, never playing hesitant. Shows the ability to push routes, sink and quickly locate the football. Plays with grown man strength to brush off tackle attempts and get every yard possible - rarely phased by initial tackler in college due to his balance and power.
Has run-after-catch ability with his strength and athleticism, stretching screens into big gains. Won't allow defenders to chase him out of bounds. Takes pride in his blocking, throwing his body and overwhelming defenders.
Very strong-minded competitor and doesn't shrink under bright lights. Innately motivated and wired right for professional football. Carries himself like a leader with a goal-oriented mind-set - genuinely enjoys the comradely with his teammates. Very grounded, mature personality for his age and handled adversity well after his 2014 season-ending injury.
Link - ( New Window )
But I'm sure the Giants have a list for #10, and it's impossible to know right now where he is on that list.
Quote:
STRENGTHS: Well-built for the position with a muscular upper body and sleek definition. Long arms and large hands to create a very large catching radius. Natural plucker with vacuum hands away from his body, snatching anything in his general direction. Outstanding on 50/50 balls, showing above average body control and hand-eye coordination.
Lacks sprinter speed, but faster than expected due to strong, decisive strides, never playing hesitant. Shows the ability to push routes, sink and quickly locate the football. Plays with grown man strength to brush off tackle attempts and get every yard possible - rarely phased by initial tackler in college due to his balance and power.
Has run-after-catch ability with his strength and athleticism, stretching screens into big gains. Won't allow defenders to chase him out of bounds. Takes pride in his blocking, throwing his body and overwhelming defenders.
Very strong-minded competitor and doesn't shrink under bright lights. Innately motivated and wired right for professional football. Carries himself like a leader with a goal-oriented mind-set - genuinely enjoys the comradely with his teammates. Very grounded, mature personality for his age and handled adversity well after his 2014 season-ending injury.
Link - ( New Window )
Everybody likes to talk up his bowl game which statistically looked great, but he had a lot of catches where he just wasn't covered at all.
If they feel he is worth the 10th pick then I will get behind the pick. I think he's a good WR that should be chosen between 20-32.
Ramsey
Tunsil
Mack
Bosa
Buckner
Hargreaves
Stanley
Floyd
Conklin
Rankins
Lawson
Robinson
Elliott
My dream was getting Calvin Johnson......this could be 2nd best thing.
I have other preferences but if they see it and take him, that means they are satisfied with what they did on D in FA; likely go D in rd 2.
Of all the BPAs that might be there, you believe he will be chosen? If so,mdo you believe OBJ and LT can be as lethal a tandem as White (in his prime) and Julio Jones, or possibly better?
Excellent prediction.
Unless we sign a decent veteran stop-gap for a one-year deal, WR is as big a need as ANY headed into the draft.
He is most definitely worth the pick at 10.
You do know the draft is 7 rounds? They can get a cover LB & FS after round 1
I agree that people are going to be interested in his 40 but that doesn't mean anything to me. I want to see his 3 cone and short shuttle. I don't care if he can run past defenders. I care if he can separate from them in under 2 seconds because that is how our offense is run. If he cannot get separation quickly then that will not be good for us. That is why I like Coleman for the Giants. He is just too quick.
Please name me one playmaker we have on offense behind Odell? What's our contingency plan if he gets hurt? You mention need for safeties, please show me a safety that's worth a top 10 pick that will be there when we pick. Where are these stud LB's after Myles Jack?
Quote:
For those that say Treadwell is "definitely" not a top 10 player...I'd like to see a list of 10-15 players ahead of him.
Ramsey
Tunsil
Mack
Bosa
Buckner
Hargreaves
Stanley
Floyd
Conklin
Rankins
Lawson
Robinson
Elliott
mm thats 13 and i wouldnt put rankins conklin robinson or lawson ahead of him, hard to compare but based on need/BPA treadwell is ahead of those 4
Quote:
For those that say Treadwell is "definitely" not a top 10 player...I'd like to see a list of 10-15 players ahead of him.
Ramsey
Tunsil
Mack
Bosa
Buckner
Hargreaves
Stanley
Floyd
Conklin
Rankins
Lawson
Robinson
Elliott
Not a bad list at all. But Treadwell is "definitely" behind those guys? Not sure how a case can be made for that. Especially Elliot, Robinson, Lawson, Floyd and Conklin. Watch tape of all those guys in the same hour and you can't say that.
Quote:
But the mock that I have to put together this week, I have Treadwell going to NYG.
Of all the BPAs that might be there, you believe he will be chosen? If so,mdo you believe OBJ and LT can be as lethal a tandem as White (in his prime) and Julio Jones, or possibly better?
Treadwell is grouped together behind the elite guys in this class.
And yes, Treadwell/Beckham can be better than White/Jones.
I'm all for it if the top 10 plays out like I expect
Quote:
For those that say Treadwell is "definitely" not a top 10 player...I'd like to see a list of 10-15 players ahead of him.
Ramsey
Tunsil
Mack
Bosa
Buckner
Hargreaves
Stanley
Floyd
Conklin
Rankins
Lawson
Robinson
Elliott
Okay just stop it with Conklin, Rankins, Lawson, Robinson.
Even if you included them that puts Treadwell at 14th.
Quote:
In comment 12875198 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
For those that say Treadwell is "definitely" not a top 10 player...I'd like to see a list of 10-15 players ahead of him.
Ramsey
Tunsil
Mack
Bosa
Buckner
Hargreaves
Stanley
Floyd
Conklin
Rankins
Lawson
Robinson
Elliott
Okay just stop it with Conklin, Rankins, Lawson, Robinson.
Even if you included them that puts Treadwell at 14th.
i said the EXACT same thing about those 4, but even if you put him behind them he is ranked 14th lol...not really a reach lol. now if somehow you traded back and got him like 15th 16th that be amazing lol
He's got short area explosion, he's physical, and he attacks the ball when he goes to catch it.
Eli would feed this guy back shoulder fades and crush CB's spirits weekly.
He's got short area explosion, he's physical, and he attacks the ball when he goes to catch it.
Eli would feed this guy back shoulder fades and crush CB's spirits weekly.
If that is true then I am all for it. I just don't really agree with the short area explosion. That is what I really need to see, not his long speed.
He's got short area explosion, he's physical, and he attacks the ball when he goes to catch it.
Eli would feed this guy back shoulder fades and crush CB's spirits weekly.
Nah man, top end speed is everything. That's why Darius Heyward Bey is HOF bound.
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timed speed.
He's got short area explosion, he's physical, and he attacks the ball when he goes to catch it.
Eli would feed this guy back shoulder fades and crush CB's spirits weekly.
If that is true then I am all for it. I just don't really agree with the short area explosion. That is what I really need to see, not his long speed.
i dont know if he has super quick short speed but the guy attacks the football, he always goes after it and catches with his hands, he is FAR from soft and think he would make a great compliment to OBJ
I've watched him and while he doesn't stretch the field, he shields the ball and goes up and gets it. I'm not saying he's my favorite for 10, but I would be happy with him. I would prefer Conklin or Stanley at 10 and to grab Shepard in 2. But Treadwell might be a game breaker.
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timed speed.
He's got short area explosion, he's physical, and he attacks the ball when he goes to catch it.
Eli would feed this guy back shoulder fades and crush CB's spirits weekly.
If that is true then I am all for it. I just don't really agree with the short area explosion. That is what I really need to see, not his long speed.
I keep coming back to one player and I see a more explosive Brandon Marshall. Might not blow past safeties very often but he'll make 20 yard catches downfield routinely then break tackles and explode for more very shortly after the catch.
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In comment 12875211 jeff57 said:
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In comment 12875198 Sy'56 said:
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For those that say Treadwell is "definitely" not a top 10 player...I'd like to see a list of 10-15 players ahead of him.
Ramsey
Tunsil
Mack
Bosa
Buckner
Hargreaves
Stanley
Floyd
Conklin
Rankins
Lawson
Robinson
Elliott
Okay just stop it with Conklin, Rankins, Lawson, Robinson.
Even if you included them that puts Treadwell at 14th.
i said the EXACT same thing about those 4, but even if you put him behind them he is ranked 14th lol...not really a reach lol. now if somehow you traded back and got him like 15th 16th that be amazing lol
Didn't say he was a reach. Just said he's not the 10th best player in the draft.
Maybe Alshon, but it's a poor man's Alshon. I don't think he goes up for the ball like Alshon does.
It can be argued that he isn't a top 10 player, but he is sure as shit a top 15 player.
I'd feel better with this pick than Floyd.
That's more like it.
Treadwell isn't that kind of athlete. Best case is that he is Anquan Boldin.
He was right near or better then Odell in the 10, broad & vertical. While being almost 30 pounds heavier.
Oh I forgot, those rules don't apply to offensive tackles or linebackers around here.
The defense from last year is the reason why the Giants went out and spent 200 million dollars this FA period. In that total is Keenan Robinson who is reportedly able to cover. OF course he is a stop gap with a 1 year contract but, you can't rebuild an entire team in one off-season.
If the Giants had any type of credibility in regards to a 2nd WR - the offense becomes stellar. We all saw what happened to the O when OBJ had to sit out the week suspension. What happens if his hamstring acts up again .... and he has to miss multiple weeks.
I hope they go high with a WR (or 2) and a RB if the talent is there. We need more weapons on O. We can find another serviceable OL for he right-side in September (veteran cuts).
Treadwell profile - ( New Window )
Who cares how fast Treadwell runs on a track - how fast does he play?
There are any fast guys who can't can't catch or block .... or play Football.
I would be happy with the pick ... but, there is like 4-5 other picks I would be happy with also.
Elliot
Bosa
Ramsey
WJiii
Lawson
Tunsil
Jack
Rankins
Hackett
Doctson
I didn't even use qbs.
Giants would be wise to remember the draft 30 years ago. Pepper Johnson, Mark Collins and Erik Howard.
(Eric Dorsey too - they can't all be home run picks)
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For those that say Treadwell is "definitely" not a top 10 player...I'd like to see a list of 10-15 players ahead of him.
Elliot
Bosa
Ramsey
WJiii
Lawson
Tunsil
Jack
Rankins
Hackett
Doctson
I didn't even use qbs.
Who the fuck is Hackett?
Doctson? Rankins? Lawson?
Give it up.
Giants would be wise to remember the draft 30 years ago. Pepper Johnson, Mark Collins and Erik Howard.
(Eric Dorsey too - they can't all be home run picks)
He's not a top 10 player.
If they go WR at 10 it will be Coleman.
They'll pick between Coleman, Floyd, or OT. Possibly the RB. That's it for the first pick.
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For those that say Treadwell is "definitely" not a top 10 player...I'd like to see a list of 10-15 players ahead of him.
Elliot
Bosa
Ramsey
WJiii
Lawson
Tunsil
Jack
Rankins
Hackett
Doctson
I didn't even use qbs.
Dude, Treadwell isn't a "top 10" guy, but Doctson is? and Rankins?
..and I hope you aren't talking about that punter from Utah.
Stop it. Sy has forgotten more about the draft than you will ever know.
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I would prefer Conklin or Stanley at 10 and to grab Shepard in 2.
That's more like it.
Shepard is a slot receiver. I'd love to have him on the team, I think he'll be a great pro, but he and Treadwell play different positions, and the Giants need a WR2 opposite OBJ. Shepard doesn't solve that.
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In comment 12875198 Sy'56 said:
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For those that say Treadwell is "definitely" not a top 10 player...I'd like to see a list of 10-15 players ahead of him.
Elliot
Bosa
Ramsey
WJiii
Lawson
Tunsil
Jack
Rankins
Hackett
Doctson
I didn't even use qbs.
Who the fuck is Hackett?
Doctson? Rankins? Lawson?
Give it up.
Hackett will be a top 10 player in this draft within 2 years
Lawson is only DE who can bend and flex around the edge with speed.
Rankins is only DT who has actual pass rush moves and counter moves
Doctson is a better allen Robinson.
I agree we need a FS ... but, the Giants didn't seem to like what was available in FA and I don't see a FS getting a lot of press (not that the FS position gets a lot of press anyway) in the upcoming draft. I wouldn't want to see them take a FS who was graded out as a 2nd or 3rd day pick (just because he is a FS) while leaving higher graded players on the board.
My concern about Treadwell is his injury history. I know he came back strong from that broken leg and dislocated ankle, but it’s still concerning for the #10 pick. That is especially true for a team that has lead the league in injuries the last two years. Can we afford the risk? Somebody was talking about Keyarris Garrett the other day, but he has the same problem. Broken leg, and then came back strong two years later.
I don't want Treadwell at 10 either, but he's definitely better then Doctson & Rankins.
I'd take Shaq over Treadwell though.
I don't want Treadwell at 10 either, but he's definitely better then Doctson & Rankins.
I'd take Shaq over Treadwell though.
Hackett is a top 10 player in this draft.
Link - ( New Window )
It's the least meaningful position on the entire football field.
Dude, Lawson beat up ronnie Stanley for 3 quarters. It was stanleys worst tape of the year and he was beaten by power and speed moves.
This draft is full of DEs who have power moves. Lawson and Judon are literally the only guys who have speed and power.
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A punter to Treadwell?!
I don't want Treadwell at 10 either, but he's definitely better then Doctson & Rankins.
I'd take Shaq over Treadwell though.
Hackett is a top 10 player in this draft.
Are you by any chance Tom Hackett?
You are starting to sound like that other knucklehead that's in love with John Jerry.
It's the least meaningful position on the entire football field.
Until he costs you the playoffs
Signed Matt dodge
Thank you.
I can't figure out the love affair with that guy. He has a cool name. I think that's it.
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In comment 12875323 Big Rick in FL said:
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A punter to Treadwell?!
I don't want Treadwell at 10 either, but he's definitely better then Doctson & Rankins.
I'd take Shaq over Treadwell though.
Hackett is a top 10 player in this draft.
Are you by any chance Tom Hackett?
You are starting to sound like that other knucklehead that's in love with John Jerry.
Just because he's a top 10 player doesn't mean you draft him top 10
See Noah Spence and nkemdiche
...has a better NFL career than Laquon Treadwell.
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In comment 12875325 jawebb20 said:
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In comment 12875323 Big Rick in FL said:
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A punter to Treadwell?!
I don't want Treadwell at 10 either, but he's definitely better then Doctson & Rankins.
I'd take Shaq over Treadwell though.
Hackett is a top 10 player in this draft.
Are you by any chance Tom Hackett?
You are starting to sound like that other knucklehead that's in love with John Jerry.
Just because he's a top 10 player doesn't mean you draft him top 10
See Noah Spence and nkemdiche
So just to clarify, you want the two druggies and a punter?
Treadwell - ( New Window )
The other 4 are Steve Weatherford, Jon Ryan, Ryan Allen & Britton Colquitt.
Exactly like I said the least important position on a football field.
My concern about Treadwell is his injury history. I know he came back strong from that broken leg and dislocated ankle, but it’s still concerning for the #10 pick. That is especially true for a team that has lead the league in injuries the last two years. Can we afford the risk? Somebody was talking about Keyarris Garrett the other day, but he has the same problem. Broken leg, and then came back strong two years later.
I don't have any concern with that injury. He was running into the end zone and got tackled from behind - boom. He's literally been on the field for every game other than that. Not only has he not had hen but he just doesn't seem like a soft tissue injury type of player. The dude brings it every game.
He had 1 season over 650 yards & 5 TDs. Wouldn't exactly say he was dominating anything.
Treadwell isn't that kind of athlete. Best case is that he is Anquan Boldin.
Like looking back Boldin wouldn't have been more than worthy of a #10 pick almost every draft year?
I don't see that comp with Treadwell (I see a slightly lesser Dez, like others), but the Giants would be lucky to have him if that's the case. Hell, people still want them to sign 35 year old Boldin right now.
At this time a WR that is "NFL ready" to be the #2-3 guy might have a greater impact.
False.
Here is a tape review, Stanley got beat up for 3q.
http://forceplayers.com/2015/10/08/2016-draft-shaq-lawson-vs-notre-dame-2015/
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He had 1 season over 650 yards & 5 TDs. Wouldn't exactly say he was dominating anything.
Not sure I follow. Are you using 650 yards as your barometer?
Freshman year: 72 for 608 and 5
Sophomore year: 48 for 632 and 5 (8.5 games played)
Junior year: 82 for 1153 and 11 (less than a year after broken leg and dislocated ankle)
That's very good. If you're using the same logic you'd say that Beckham wasn't impressive in college. You have to watch them play.
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had a 38" vertical and 11' 1" broad jump.
Treadwell isn't that kind of athlete. Best case is that he is Anquan Boldin.
Like looking back Boldin wouldn't have been more than worthy of a #10 pick almost every draft year?
I don't see that comp with Treadwell (I see a slightly lesser Dez, like others), but the Giants would be lucky to have him if that's the case. Hell, people still want them to sign 35 year old Boldin right now.
No disagreement. Just have to be realistic that the lesser athlete is more of a risk. I'd rather take a risk on Treadwell than Floyd or Lawson.
Will be very interested in Treadwell's pro day (Monday).
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the pick at #10.
No chance.
Doctson and Coleman are better players.
Says who , you ? Right
Lonk - ( New Window )
He not impressive. Upside is average NFL starter. Not the type of player you draft near top 10.
I'd take him for 10 dollars ...
I know that is a highlight reel but, showed good hands and concentration in traffic/coverage. Looks like he is willing to fight for the ball.
I guess he would have to have all those traits to be considered a round 1 pick - no matter where he goes.
He not impressive. Upside is average NFL starter. Not the type of player you draft near top 10.
the tape says youre wrong.
not every play you make on a guy results in stat recorded in a boxscore.
Lawson beat Stanley 1on1 many times.
He's Awesome and I could live with him as the pick at 10
Odell wasn't dominating either outside of 1 year.
That's an unfair comparison though as Odell played with Landry, Hill, Rueben Randle, Alfred Blue, Russell Shepard & Kenny Hilliard taking away touches.
Not saying Treadwell won't be a good player. Just saying 2 of his 3 years weren't dominate.
Also at the combine Mike Mayock said he might not be the fastest or jump the highest, but he's got great hands & runs very good routes.
If by some chance we do take him I want ever other pick to be on the defensive side of the ball ;-)
I pretty much agree. Treadwell may be the best wideout on the board, but the sweet spot for wr in this draft is in the 2nd round. A number good receivers may fall to our pick - Shepard, Fuller, Doctson, Thomas. If the Giants want to draft a wideout, I think they should wait for round 2.
Reminds the you too much of Nicks?
And that's a problem why?
This guy will be good. I am positive of it. He can be great. In my opinion. So since he fits a profile of what we need even if not urgent as LB or DT, I say take the better player if the drop is huge.
The single reason I'd not take him is if you miss then you didn't take a player on thr weaker side of the ball but if he is going to be as good as I think, its a superb move to take him to pair with OBJ and give Eli unfair riches. Especially if we go with existing rostrer TE's
But the notion that we have to go WR in the first round is misguided. A WR somewhere in rounds 2-4 with Cruz returning would be good for an offense that ranked 7th last season. The argument is "what if OBJ gets hurt" well what if JPP gets hurt. It goes both ways. This team needs talent all over the place and we're not going to get it all in one year.
I'm not a big fan of Stanley (my pro comp is Beatty) and I'm not overly high on Lawson (I think he's better standing up), however Lawson definitely got the better of Stanley in their matchup. Stanley was beat so bad on one play he literally tackled Lawson. On another play Lawson got his hands inside and hit Stanley with a bull rush. He walked Stanley right back into the QBs lap. They tried desperately to establish the run but couldn't. Lawson was awesome on the edge in that game.
It can be argued that he isn't a top 10 player, but he is sure as shit a top 15 player.
I'd feel better with this pick than Floyd.
No offense, but why do you seem to always say "I said it before...." When others come around to your viewpoint? Do you really think that the thought of Treadwell at 10 was first conceived by the firing of your neurons?
I have no problem with you, just curious
I think a decent comparison from an athletic standpoint is Larry Fitzgerald. Similar build, similar style of play. Fitzgerald ran 4.63 at the combine, but then ran in the 4.5s at his pro-day. Remember that the pro day times are almost always faster than the combine times for a few reasons. 1. Indy is considered a slower track than most and 2. Unlike the combine which uses official electronic timing pro-day 40s rely on hand held timing, which is rarely accurate and can often be off by .1-.25 seconds. So Fitzgerald is probably a 4.6 40 guy, but Rice was a 4.7 and Boldin is a 4.8 guy and that was in his youth.
Treadwell is the best Wr in this draft, perhaps not the most explosive, but don't think of him like that. He is not OBJ, Treadwell is more of a Fitzgerald, Boldin, Eric Moulds, and Bryant type. Not going to blow your doors off with speed, but does everything else a WR is supposed to do perfectly, and has enough speed, great hands, and plenty of height to make you pay.
If he runs under 4.6 he cements himself in the top 15 and is easily worthy of the ten spot. Now you can argue whether the Giants should take a WR over OT, CB, or DE, but that's a different thread. I'm 100% OK with it, as long as it's Treadwell. He gives you everything Randle was supposed to and then some. Hell make OBJ even better, which is a crazy thought. And Eli will put up even better numbers. As long as they address RT, I think Treadwell at 10 makes a good deal of sense as there is a big drop in outside WR talent in this draft.
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that he would be a great compliment to Beckham.
It can be argued that he isn't a top 10 player, but he is sure as shit a top 15 player.
I'd feel better with this pick than Floyd.
No offense, but why do you seem to always say "I said it before...." When others come around to your viewpoint? Do you really think that the thought of Treadwell at 10 was first conceived by the firing of your neurons?
I have no problem with you, just curious
No, often I'm saying that because I am aware that I am repeating myself.
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We can get a quality WR in Rd2 - Sterling Shepard is my guy.
Reminds the you too much of Nicks?
And that's a problem why?
Not with the 10th overall pic... My pref
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In comment 12875306 jawebb20 said:
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In comment 12875198 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
For those that say Treadwell is "definitely" not a top 10 player...I'd like to see a list of 10-15 players ahead of him.
Elliot
Bosa
Ramsey
WJiii
Lawson
Tunsil
Jack
Rankins
Hackett
Doctson
I didn't even use qbs.
Who the fuck is Hackett?
Doctson? Rankins? Lawson?
Give it up.
Hackett will be a top 10 player in this draft within 2 years
Lawson is only DE who can bend and flex around the edge with speed.
Rankins is only DT who has actual pass rush moves and counter moves
Doctson is a better allen Robinson.
While I agree he may not definitely be "Top 10 worthy", he is very close. And when you match that up with our need to have a game 1-ready WR, and the drop-off with the next set of receivers, I would make him the pick.
My only caveat is if there are enough of QBs taken ahead of us, that a dynamic pass rusher is sitting there that we would love, then I would change my view and hope that Sterling Shepard is there at #40.
Hey Sy, is that a choice you advocate, or is it simply the choice you're predicting they'll make?
It isn't about measurables. It's about a guy who will struggle to beat press vs NFL CBs and struggle even more to separate from these CBs down the field.
On the other hand, you have a WR like Coleman who can beat press and get open on anybody.
Who do you want to bet on with a top 10 pick?
Guy with below average movement?
Guy with elite movement?
When it comes draft time, people quickly forget, and lose senses
It isn't about measurables. It's about a guy who will struggle to beat press vs NFL CBs and struggle even more to separate from these CBs down the field.
On the other hand, you have a WR like Coleman who can beat press and get open on anybody.
Who do you want to bet on with a top 10 pick?
Guy with below average movement?
Guy with elite movement?
It isn't about measurables. It's about a guy who will struggle to beat press vs NFL CBs and struggle even more to separate from these CBs down the field.
On the other hand, you have a WR like Coleman who can beat press and get open on anybody.
Who do you want to bet on with a top 10 pick?
Guy with below average movement?
Guy with elite movement?
And a guy known for running four of the routes on the route tree.
Treadwell actually reminds me a lot of Nick's. His catches aren't spectacular, but his vision for YAC is really good. He can block. So he won't burn you, neither would Nick's save for a few plays.
If he can get open, make the tough catch and go up and get the ball, why does he need to light things up with speed. We have a guy who can do that already.
My preference is Stanley or Conklin as the drop off in OT talent seems significant by our 2nd pick.
We really only need a solid possession guy and I think we can get that in the 3rd or 4th round this year.
My preference is Stanley or Conklin as the drop off in OT talent seems significant by our 2nd pick.
We really only need a solid possession guy and I think we can get that in the 3rd or 4th round this year.
Wait....what?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but he is 50/50.
Good
Steve Smith
Hakeem Nick's
Odell Beckham Jr.
Bad
Rueben Randle
Sinorice Moss
Ramses Barden
Geremy Davis is an undecided, but it seems he hit a Homer with one, could've hit an earlier Homer save for injury and hit a dbl in Smith. Then he whiffed BIG TIME in Randle, Moss and Barden.
That's the big risk. Your talking very high pick. His movement is a huge red flag. Not just long speed. He won't plant and separate. He'll struggle at the line playing against good CBs with much better technique than he saw in college. They will press him and stick with him. I'd bet on it being a problem.
I also think it's a terrible gamble to draft a guy high in round 1 with this issue. Very few overcome it in the NFL. People talking about Dez Bryant and Jeffries as a comp for him? Those guys were much better athletes. Even with that Jeffries went in round 2.
We need playmakers, period. I'd be ok with LT, Floyd, or then with solidifying the OL, Conklin, or Stanley. I don't believe in Lawson, saw him in the Bowl Division playoffs and he did not stand out, before coming off the field with the injury.
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I'd rather not go WR in a weak WR class, but if Reese takes him at 10 odds are he's going to be a good player. Say what you want about Reese, but his record on WRs is pretty damn good.
My preference is Stanley or Conklin as the drop off in OT talent seems significant by our 2nd pick.
We really only need a solid possession guy and I think we can get that in the 3rd or 4th round this year.
Wait....what?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but he is 50/50.
Good
Steve Smith
Hakeem Nick's
Odell Beckham Jr.
Bad
Rueben Randle
Sinorice Moss
Ramses Barden
Geremy Davis is an undecided, but it seems he hit a Homer with one, could've hit an earlier Homer save for injury and hit a dbl in Smith. Then he whiffed BIG TIME in Randle, Moss and Barden.
Moss was Accorsi, not Reese.
Hits
Beckham (Pro Bowl WR)
Steve Smith (Pro Bowl caliber WR before injury)
Nicks (same as above)
Cruz (UFA) (same as above)
Mario Manningham
Misses
Barden (3rd round pick)
Jernigan (3rd round pick)
Randle (last pick of 2nd round)
TBD
Geremy Davis (6th Round)
So Reese is 3 for 4 picking WR's in round 1-2, and Randle was picked at the end of the 2nd round. Randle wasn't that bad compared to his class. On the 3 he's hit on, all three were pro bowl caliber receivers. Beckham is one of the top 3 in the game right now. Nicks, Cruz, and Manningham were instrumental in our championship run in '11.
Overall, he's 5 for 8 with 4 being pro bowl caliber WR's. Unfortunately, injuries have cut short most of their respective careers. Any team in the league would take that record on WR's.
So like I said, you can hate on Reese for a lot of things, but drafting WR's isn't one of them.
Treadwell wouldn't be my pick, but if he is, I'm sure he'll be a player.
I'd be fine with either one. My question is, no lingering issue with Treadwell and his leg? I know he had a big year this year coming back from it. But I remember that injury, fucking gruesome.
That's the big risk. Your talking very high pick. His movement is a huge red flag. Not just long speed. He won't plant and separate. He'll struggle at the line playing against good CBs with much better technique than he saw in college. They will press him and stick with him. I'd bet on it being a problem.
I also think it's a terrible gamble to draft a guy high in round 1 with this issue. Very few overcome it in the NFL. People talking about Dez Bryant and Jeffries as a comp for him? Those guys were much better athletes. Even with that Jeffries went in round 2.
Treadwell led the league in receiving vs the toughest conference in football. A league littered with the best athletes in college football.
You're way too hung up on measurables.
We need playmakers, period. I'd be ok with LT, Floyd, or then with solidifying the OL, Conklin, or Stanley. I don't believe in Lawson, saw him in the Bowl Division playoffs and he did not stand out, before coming off the field with the injury.
You do realize that Lawson was injured early in the first qtr
Having Dwayne Harris as your number 2 guy at WR is horrific roster management?
Bust written all over him.
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We can get a quality WR in Rd2 - Sterling Shepard is my guy.
Reminds the you too much of Nicks?
And that's a problem why?
When you read statements like that it is best to ignore them.
Bust written all over him.
So you are referencing the last 4 games with their 3rd string QB which included a game in a monsoon?
Can he run below 4.5 at his pro day is very important because 4.5 is a low 4.6 which will hurt his stock. Now then what happens if he runs 4.4 or below then all of a sudden the speed question becomes a non factor and the question becomes will he make it to 10. Prior to the injury I can't say that much talk was about his lack of speed and this kid was a beast. I see a player who performs at the highest level game after game at a position of need for us if the only negative is he can't break 4.5 in the fourty then is that a real concern when he does everything else with ease?
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In comment 12875620 JohnVB said:
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I'd rather not go WR in a weak WR class, but if Reese takes him at 10 odds are he's going to be a good player. Say what you want about Reese, but his record on WRs is pretty damn good.
My preference is Stanley or Conklin as the drop off in OT talent seems significant by our 2nd pick.
We really only need a solid possession guy and I think we can get that in the 3rd or 4th round this year.
Wait....what?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but he is 50/50.
Good
Steve Smith
Hakeem Nick's
Odell Beckham Jr.
Bad
Rueben Randle
Sinorice Moss
Ramses Barden
Geremy Davis is an undecided, but it seems he hit a Homer with one, could've hit an earlier Homer save for injury and hit a dbl in Smith. Then he whiffed BIG TIME in Randle, Moss and Barden.
Moss was Accorsi, not Reese.
Hits
Beckham (Pro Bowl WR)
Steve Smith (Pro Bowl caliber WR before injury)
Nicks (same as above)
Cruz (UFA) (same as above)
Mario Manningham
Misses
Barden (3rd round pick)
Jernigan (3rd round pick)
Randle (last pick of 2nd round)
TBD
Geremy Davis (6th Round)
So Reese is 3 for 4 picking WR's in round 1-2, and Randle was picked at the end of the 2nd round. Randle wasn't that bad compared to his class. On the 3 he's hit on, all three were pro bowl caliber receivers. Beckham is one of the top 3 in the game right now. Nicks, Cruz, and Manningham were instrumental in our championship run in '11.
Overall, he's 5 for 8 with 4 being pro bowl caliber WR's. Unfortunately, injuries have cut short most of their respective careers. Any team in the league would take that record on WR's.
So like I said, you can hate on Reese for a lot of things, but drafting WR's isn't one of them.
Treadwell wouldn't be my pick, but if he is, I'm sure he'll be a player.
Fair enough. Thanks for the corrections...my statement was off the top of my head.
Fact is, I wouldn't be upset with the pick. At all. I just don't want to elevate Treadwell while diminishing someone like Conklin.
To say Coleman is head and shoulders above Treadwell is foolish and baseless. They have similar grades. Different players with different upsides.
Watch a healthy Coleman vs Oklahoma and that is all you need to see. It's clear his game will work in the NFL. More upside and less risk than Treadwell. NFL will see it that way and he'll be drafted first.
He would work with Beckham. both guys can play outside and slot. Coleman can play out of the backfield too. The coach could use him like he used Cobb but he'll be even better because he's also a true deep threat.
And didn't know you got it right every year.
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I'd rather not go WR in a weak WR class, but if Reese takes him at 10 odds are he's going to be a good player. Say what you want about Reese, but his record on WRs is pretty damn good.
My preference is Stanley or Conklin as the drop off in OT talent seems significant by our 2nd pick.
We really only need a solid possession guy and I think we can get that in the 3rd or 4th round this year.
Wait....what?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but he is 50/50.
Good
Steve Smith
Hakeem Nick's
Odell Beckham Jr.
Bad
Rueben Randle
Sinorice Moss
Ramses Barden
Geremy Davis is an undecided, but it seems he hit a Homer with one, could've hit an earlier Homer save for injury and hit a dbl in Smith. Then he whiffed BIG TIME in Randle, Moss and Barden.
okay first off...moss was his only failure. barden we all knew was a project and at 6'6 it was a good pick and honestly he showed some ability but injuries hurt him some. and while we all HATE randle lets not act like he was garbage...the guy produced, yes he took plays off and he isnt my type of player but he has been a decent pro...
agreed...measurables arent everything, end of the day he makes plays
Watch a healthy Coleman vs Oklahoma and that is all you need to see. It's clear his game will work in the NFL. More upside and less risk than Treadwell. NFL will see it that way and he'll be drafted first.
He would work with Beckham. both guys can play outside and slot. Coleman can play out of the backfield too. The coach could use him like he used Cobb but he'll be even better because he's also a true deep threat.
Coleman beat up on crap teams where his athleticism mattered...where the gap in athleticism was so great that he could use that exclusively to be productive.
It's not going to be like that in the NFL. He won't be facing crap CB's who played at Lamar, Rice, or Texas Tech.
If he goes 1st round, he'll be remembered as one of the biggest busts in the draft.
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People are too worried about measurables and speed. Treadwell can ball. He's going to be very good and I'd be perfectly happy taking him @ 10.
agreed...measurables arent everything, end of the day he makes plays
how about drafting a guy who tested extremely well AND makes plays?
http://www.mockdraftable.com/player/5972/
The skills are clear as day. His game will work and it will work in year 1 in the NFL.
The skills are clear as day. His game will work and it will work in year 1 in the NFL.
you mean running fades and go routes in bump and run coverage against bigger and faster athletes?
Treadwell led the SEC in receiving. The best conference with the best athletes in college football. He was steady and productive even against the best teams -- went 5 for 80 and a TD vs. Bama last year. Went 6 for 71 and 3 TDs vs OK St in the Sugar Bowl.
Again, I'm not a fan of Treadwell or any WR at 10, but if we do go with Treadwell I'm confident he'll be a good player for us.
He found the end zone in all of them including 2 TDs vs #3 TCU. Michigan St was ranked 5 with a first round CB.
He found the end zone in all of them including 2 TDs vs #3 TCU. Michigan St was ranked 5 with a first round CB.
All of this was 2014. Why did he come up so small vs good competition this year when he's supposed to be the man?
So I'm going to leave it at that and the only reason I would pick a WR at 10 is because he could help THIS year
I liked Parker the best.
Jury is still out. To say I was "so wrong about the top WRs last year is baseless and foolish. And downright inaccurate.
I didn't like Cooper. That's it.
I said early on White and Parker would be drafted high and have the strong workouts. I wasn't wrong about that.
What I see with Treadwell is a risky top 10 pick because of the movement. Doesn't mean he may not be a player. Just I wouldn't gamble a high pick on it. I see Coleman as a guy with less risk. Higher floor. Higher ceiling.
Even stranger you're trying to keep score.
But coleman did nothing in a monsoon with his 3rd string QB!!!!
It just looks shady when you post stats like that without providing context.
He did nothing last year vs good competition.
You say it was because he was injured -- and we should take a guy who gets dinged like that at 10 given our injury history?
KWALL is all about speed. If he doesn't run fast then he's an inferior draft prospect and FA. Doesn't matter how good of an actual football player he is or how he performs against good competition.
I think he lacks what you look for in a top pick.
I get the Giants may want some size at WR. I'd much rather draft the TCU WR in round 2. In round 1 it's only Coleman at WR for me.
I think he lacks what you look for in a top pick.
I get the Giants may want some size at WR. I'd much rather draft the TCU WR in round 2. In round 1 it's only Coleman at WR for me.
Fair enough. I just think that combine speed vs game speed is a totally different thing. Hopkins ran a 4.6 at the combine. When you watch him play, he's basically beating his man off the snap on every play. Not necessarily comparing Treadwell to Hopkins, but you get my drift. I think Treadwell is going to be a great pro. Wouldn't hate the pick at all - we need a good playmaker at 10. Hell - we just need good football players and he's one.
I think he lacks what you look for in a top pick.
I get the Giants may want some size at WR. I'd much rather draft the TCU WR in round 2. In round 1 it's only Coleman at WR for me.
no shot Doctson is there at 40, especially if you consider that hes on everyone's top 3 WRs.
I'm hopeful they get a Safety in FA. Like a Jefferson who is RFA but they might not be able to afford.
The following year the Giants can draft a WR either in round 1 or 2. Usually WR's taken in early rounds can make a big splash. We can always take a WR in Round 4 this year though I'd be more interested in a LB or secondary. Go after Boldin if we want a quality WR for the short term.
He has skills. But I wouldn't want to use a high pick on those skills.
Bust written all over him.
You know he was injured right?! According to Baylor HC Art Briles he suffered a sports hernia in practice prior to the Oklahoma game on November 14th. Yet he played through the injury. That's the kind of guy I want on my team.
Also, games in 2014 don't count for Coleman.
Even stranger you're trying to keep score.
Well, you sound off like you are an expert of the field and yet it seems you are just like us....enthusiasts.
Oh, and way to go out on a limb..." and Parker will both be drafted high in '15!"
Dude, I appreciate your insight, but all of your prognostications seem to fall in the 50/50 range. Yet you keep making declarative statements and declaring Sy's stuff wrong when he is at least humble about his statements. You come off as this college player know-it-all who gets down on certain players, and then spends an entire off season trashing those players.
Again, nothing against you and we all appreciate your insight, but a lot of what you say is argued by those paid a lot to do this kind of work. Maybe tone it down is all.
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Didn't do shit vs. good defenses last year. Check his game logs. He compiled stats vs crap teams and then went AWOL after KS when they faced good teams.
Bust written all over him.
You know he was injured right?! According to Baylor HC Art Briles he suffered a sports hernia in practice prior to the Oklahoma game on November 14th. Yet he played through the injury. That's the kind of guy I want on my team.
An injury flag is the guy you want at 10 overall? In a weak WR class?
Look I don't want any WR at 10. But I definitely don't want an injured workout warrior who beat up on shitty comp the year he comes out.
I don't call him out on anything so I don't know what you're taking about.
I said I liked both more than Cooper. I assume this is the stuff Sy is talking about when he says I was way off on the top WRs last year.
I liked Parker the best last year. Going out on a limb? No. I liked his game and felt he was a safer pick than any WR in the draft.
In this case I don't even know who he likes at WR this year. He's big on Treadwell? That's news to me. Liking another player more isn't calling him or anybody else put.
Which leads me to the second pertinent issue at hand: analysts and draft prognosticators boards are often wildly different than those of the actual teams. We see it every year, a handful of guys graded as 2nd or even 3rd round picks go in the first round. And a few guys who are "surefire 1st rounders" slide out of the first round. Happens every year. Without fail. And that's not even mentioning the fact that when the Giants meet with a player very little should be taken from it. How many times has a round selection stated something to the effect of "I didn't even meet with the Giants, I was surprised when they called"? Justin Pugh and Aaron Ross are examples of this.
Long story short: don't read into it when the Giants meet with a player. As has often been said, when they meet with a player it's often just due diligence, getting some answers to questions they have regarding the player in question. Secondly and more importantly, ignore hat draft sites and freelance analysts have to say. With a few exceptions most are on a completely different page than the actual teams. As a fan the best quality you can have regarding the draft is simply patience. We have a minute fraction of the knowledge that the teams do regarding prospects. For us this is fun. For them it's their job. Reserve judge,met until the player sees the field and trust in the process. Speaking in absolutes or getting pissed about a pick is just silly because in plain English, we don't know squat compared to what the teams and their scouting departments know.
An injury flag is the guy you want at 10 overall? In a weak WR class?
Look I don't want any WR at 10. But I definitely don't want an injured workout warrior who beat up on shitty comp the year he comes out.
Sorry to tell you, but you sound dumb. Sy just said him & Treadwell have similar grades. Coleman has also had far better production & is a WAY better athlete.
You do realize that Treadwell has missed the same amount of games as Coleman has right? Coleman played through the sports hernia & only missed 1 game. Marshawn Lynch had the same injury & missed 6 games this past year.
Workout warrior?! You do realize he had 3800+ yards & 35 TDs in 34 career games right? 3200+ yards & 34 TDs were on offense. He had 20 TDs through 8 games. Treadwell had 21 in his 35 game career.
Go back & watch the TCU/Baylor game. It was a monsoon. Those last 4 games the 2nd, 3rd, 4th & 5th QB all threw passes. The WR can't do anything if the QBs can't get them the ball. Which if you watched you'd know they couldn't. Between the 4 QBs who threw passes in those last 4 games they had a combined completion percentage of 45.0.
In 5 games against Alabama, Florida, Auburn, Texas A&M & Iowa he had a whopping 233 yards & 0 TDs.
Odell had 8 TDs his final year. He scored his 8 TDs against UAB (3), Kent State (1), Mississippi State (2) & Furman (2)
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such a low YPC number? All the other guys he's being compared with because of average test numbers were proven down the field threats in college. He hasn't been. He averaged 11.8 ypc for his career. If he can't make plays down the field in college, how will he in the pros? And if he can't get downfield, he's not worth the 10th pick.
Treadwell led the SEC in receiving. The best conference with the best athletes in college football. He was steady and productive even against the best teams -- went 5 for 80 and a TD vs. Bama last year. Went 6 for 71 and 3 TDs vs OK St in the Sugar Bowl.
Again, I'm not a fan of Treadwell or any WR at 10, but if we do go with Treadwell I'm confident he'll be a good player for us.
Great. But what WR worth the tenth pick average 11.8 yards per catch in college? Look at the stats for all the other average time speed guys who performed well in the pros. Hopkins, Nicks, Dez, Fitzgerald, Jeffrey - all made many more plays downfield in college and had YPC numbers to reflect that.
we looking at college stats or skills that translate in the NFL????
LMAO!
Not saying the Giants should take him, but Treadwell is a very good football player. He blocks, he battles and he makes big plays against quality defenders.
Devante Parker is no Cooper - and Coleman is no Treadwell
It may be silly to think that far down the road but either 1) you have too much of your cap tied up in WRs and 2) Neglect the defense.
I see the need to compliment ODB but who really complimented him last year? Randle was awful. The kid that came over from Dallas wasn't terrible and he is still here. Cruz, as much as I love him, I cant count on him.
I'm much happier using a 2nd or 3rd on a WR than my #1 pick with this defense and a top 3 NFL receiver already on the roster.
If the player is that valuable -- that you can't afford to keep them with a cap that keeps increasing by 10 million -- you either properly manage the cap and pay them, or engineer a trade in their fourth year -- so you can get some future picks and replace them with a cost controlled option.
Not saying the Giants should take him, but Treadwell is a very good football player. He blocks, he battles and he makes big plays against quality defenders.
16 passes defended by DBs last year against Treadwell is an alarming stat, compounded with a medical concern coming off a broken leg to end 2014. Good player, but not at pick 10.
You are right Bill they haven't ignored the defense -- they've made the moves they needed to and now the holes on defense have gone from 8 to 3 and the holes on offense are like 2
The Giants need to replenish starters at WR2 (Randle), Tackle (Beatty/Schwartz), FS (Rolle), MLB (Beason), Slot CB (still vacant from Thurmond injury )
Seems doable -- Treadwell would certainly fill a need there
in fact -- I can live with either Stanley/Conklin, or Treadwell, or Hargreaves, or Floyd at pick #10 - and then get me two more of those positions in the 2nd and 3rd rounds in the draft -- then add 2 more FAs to fill in
Reese did great in FA so far in my opinion, is playing it very smart and measured, and set the Giants up Beautifully for the draft to get the biggest bang for the buck so to speak.
I absolutely don't buy the KMart bargain jigger bug approach -- why get a lower first round filly like Coleman when you can get a premiere top ten stallion like Treadwell
If the player is that valuable -- that you can't afford to keep them with a cap that keeps increasing by 10 million -- you either properly manage the cap and pay them, or engineer a trade in their fourth year -- so you can get some future picks and replace them with a cost controlled option.
The Giants wouldn't hesitate to spend another first rounder on a WR. A cost-controlled starter for a few years at a premium position. I don't see the downside.
That's why they love picking premium positions in the 1st. WR, CB, and DE are expensive positions to fill. Just look at what they had to spend to get Vernon and Jenkins.
Randle wasn't a viable #2 WR.
Why is it that the overall BBI opinion of Giants players improves when the player goes to another team?
Randle was a lazy underachiever, good riddance.
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into a corner by allowing Randall to walk away and leave the team with no viable #2 WR, since we haven't signed any WR yet it could very well be that we'll go that way in the first round or at least the second....
Randle wasn't a viable #2 WR.
Why is it that the overall BBI opinion of Giants players improves when the player goes to another team?
Randle was a lazy underachiever, good riddance.
Yet KWALL insists he should be the guy.
Got it.
Yet KWALL insists he should be the guy.
Got it.
Thoughts on Treadwell at 10? Your personal pick would be?
RSP short on Treadwell - ( New Window )
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An injury flag is the guy you want at 10 overall? In a weak WR class?
Look I don't want any WR at 10. But I definitely don't want an injured workout warrior who beat up on shitty comp the year he comes out.
Sorry to tell you, but you sound dumb. Sy just said him & Treadwell have similar grades. Coleman has also had far better production & is a WAY better athlete.
You do realize that Treadwell has missed the same amount of games as Coleman has right? Coleman played through the sports hernia & only missed 1 game. Marshawn Lynch had the same injury & missed 6 games this past year.
Workout warrior?! You do realize he had 3800+ yards & 35 TDs in 34 career games right? 3200+ yards & 34 TDs were on offense. He had 20 TDs through 8 games. Treadwell had 21 in his 35 game career.
Go back & watch the TCU/Baylor game. It was a monsoon. Those last 4 games the 2nd, 3rd, 4th & 5th QB all threw passes. The WR can't do anything if the QBs can't get them the ball. Which if you watched you'd know they couldn't. Between the 4 QBs who threw passes in those last 4 games they had a combined completion percentage of 45.0.
Workout warrior was harsh... Coleman does have numbers albeit vs crap competition. I just don't think it's smart to take Kendall Wright 10th overall.
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And agree that they have neglected the defense.
You are right Bill they haven't ignored the defense -- they've made the moves they needed to and now the holes on defense have gone from 8 to 3 and the holes on offense are like 2
The Giants need to replenish starters at WR2 (Randle), Tackle (Beatty/Schwartz), FS (Rolle), MLB (Beason), Slot CB (still vacant from Thurmond injury )
Seems doable -- Treadwell would certainly fill a need there
in fact -- I can live with either Stanley/Conklin, or Treadwell, or Hargreaves, or Floyd at pick #10 - and then get me two more of those positions in the 2nd and 3rd rounds in the draft -- then add 2 more FAs to fill in
Reese did great in FA so far in my opinion, is playing it very smart and measured, and set the Giants up Beautifully for the draft to get the biggest bang for the buck so to speak.
I absolutely don't buy the KMart bargain jigger bug approach -- why get a lower first round filly like Coleman when you can get a premiere top ten stallion like Treadwell
1-- How are they at the starting DT other than Snacks?
2-- On passing downs how are both DT's?
3-- Do you expect Giants to make the Super Bowl next year?
4-- Do you think Giants will re-sign JPP?
It may be silly to think that far down the road but either 1) you have too much of your cap tied up in WRs and 2) Neglect the defense.
I see the need to compliment ODB but who really complimented him last year? Randle was awful. The kid that came over from Dallas wasn't terrible and he is still here. Cruz, as much as I love him, I cant count on him.
I'm much happier using a 2nd or 3rd on a WR than my #1 pick with this defense and a top 3 NFL receiver already on the roster.
Don't take a WR. I'm with you. We were okay without a 2nd WR. Get Boldin in FA. Next year we can draft after we keep building the other holes preferably front 7 on D and OT.
Jersey55... I tend to disagree with you about allowing Randall to walk!
A team is never painting itself in a corner when it allows a guy like RR to move on.
Why?
Because his game is on film, and when the players are in film study and they see RR's game, they see a lot of bad things that lead to losing football.
I hear time again that RR's knees were a big part of the problem.
I dunno?
What I do know is two things:
(1) Up to the beginning of last season I was the #1 RR fan on BBI and I felt he was much maligned;
(2) But then I watched him this year quit on Eli when the game was on the line (New Orleans for example) and that's when I had enough.
You don't win with guys like RR.
That is the one reason I'd be ok with Treadwell. I just don't think he's a star #1 WR. I do think he'd be very very good as the #2 across from Odell.
Odell is the reason I don't think we go WR at 10. You don't need to spend a premium pick on a #2 IMO. I think you can plug in a lot of guys in this draft & they'd be very successful across from Odell. For some reason I think we go either Tyler Boyd or Braxton Miller in the 2nd. Versatile players who they can move around & use like the Packers use Randall Cobb.
Like I said he missed 1 game with a sports hernia (Marshawn missed 6 games with the same injury). He would have tore the last 4 opponents up if he wasn't playing hurt & wasn't playing with 3rd, 4th & 5th string QBs.
Also like I said Sy has a similar grade on Coleman & Treadwell & in his latest mock draft he has Treadwell to us at 10.
Which leads me to the second pertinent issue at hand: analysts and draft prognosticators boards are often wildly different than those of the actual teams. We see it every year, a handful of guys graded as 2nd or even 3rd round picks go in the first round. And a few guys who are "surefire 1st rounders" slide out of the first round. Happens every year. Without fail. And that's not even mentioning the fact that when the Giants meet with a player very little should be taken from it. How many times has a round selection stated something to the effect of "I didn't even meet with the Giants, I was surprised when they called"? Justin Pugh and Aaron Ross are examples of this.
Long story short: don't read into it when the Giants meet with a player. As has often been said, when they meet with a player it's often just due diligence, getting some answers to questions they have regarding the player in question. Secondly and more importantly, ignore hat draft sites and freelance analysts have to say. With a few exceptions most are on a completely different page than the actual teams. As a fan the best quality you can have regarding the draft is simply patience. We have a minute fraction of the knowledge that the teams do regarding prospects. For us this is fun. For them it's their job. Reserve judge,met until the player sees the field and trust in the process. Speaking in absolutes or getting pissed about a pick is just silly because in plain English, we don't know squat compared to what the teams and their scouting departments know.
It is posts like these ... that make me wish BBI had a "thumbs up" option. I have nothing to say j_rud - I just completely agree with you.
We all know Eli puts the ball in harms way a good bit, and he asks his receivers to go get it. Treadwell is that guy.
Again, don't know if he is a top 10 pick but is close.
And not sure I "buy" the argument of you don't use a pick like that for a #2 guy. Are we saying we don't want to pick a clear cut starting WR?
That's a fair point re: Beckham. There are reasons why he didn't perform better that were outside of his control but I won't make excuses.
I just have a bias against guys like Coleman who come from type of system Baylor uses. I don't think those guys transition well to the pros. I also think there's a huge talent discrepancy top to bottom between the SEC and Baylor's conference. That means guys like Treadwell have a higher floor.
Again, I don't want any WR at 10. But if the choice is Treadwell or Coleman, I'm going Treadwell because he has a higher floor with comparable upside.
Still pigeon holes guys based on the uniform or conference. It's unbelievable that you stick with it but damn you are consistent.
You didn't like QB Rodgers because he went to Cal and Tedford QBs fail.
You didn't like WR Jeffries because you "can't pick skill position players from South Carolina".
And on and on and on.
It isn't about the uniform. It never is.
People here comparing Coleman to any other Baylor player. It's nonsense. His ability and NFL potential has nothing to do with Wright, Josh Gordon, or any other player from Baylor.
Hodge was first team SEC for Ole Miss. Few years ago. More yards and TDs than Treadwell. Similar size and is bet a similar workout. So why can't we pigeon hole Tteadwell as just another Ole Miss WR?
Because it's bull shit right?
Same with the Coleman to Wright comparisons.
..and rather quickly imo.
If Josh Gordon had no off the field stuff would you not draft him because he plays for Baylor? That's stupid IMO. He's been very good when he's on the field with shit QBs. Kendall Wright has had absolutely terrible QBs & can't stay healthy. The one year he played all 16 games he had over 1000 yards.
Back to Odell. Would you not draft LSU WRs because previous players have failed? Devery Henderson, Josh Reed, Brandon Lafell, Russell Shepard, Early Doucet, Rueben Randle, Craig Davis, Michael Clayton & Dwayne Bowe are all LSU WRs that haven't been any better in the NFL then Josh Gordon & Kendall Wright.
I do think Coleman's best attribute is just to use his explosiveness to go vertical. I would just prefer the better hands and likely better route runner of Treadwell.
We all know Eli puts the ball in harms way a good bit, and he asks his receivers to go get it. Treadwell is that guy.
Again, don't know if he is a top 10 pick but is close.
And not sure I "buy" the argument of you don't use a pick like that for a #2 guy. Are we saying we don't want to pick a clear cut starting WR?
I'd rather have a clear cut OT than a WR which would then allow Eli to be better and the running game better. Our passing game was "good enough." I want to win games up front. Elite defenses can stuff a good a terrific wr core.
I would also like to be more consistent with a pass rush and stopping the running game. Thus I'd like DT's / DE's or maybe a LB.
If Josh Gordon had no off the field stuff would you not draft him because he plays for Baylor? That's stupid IMO. He's been very good when he's on the field with shit QBs. Kendall Wright has had absolutely terrible QBs & can't stay healthy. The one year he played all 16 games he had over 1000 yards.
Back to Odell. Would you not draft LSU WRs because previous players have failed? Devery Henderson, Josh Reed, Brandon Lafell, Russell Shepard, Early Doucet, Rueben Randle, Craig Davis, Michael Clayton & Dwayne Bowe are all LSU WRs that haven't been any better in the NFL then Josh Gordon & Kendall Wright.
I don't think Coleman is a good fit for how the Giants are currently constructed and what they need. Everything I've read says he's a potentially explosive deep threat who has issues with drops and catching vs zone coverage and going over the middle. Struggles at times getting off vs physical CBs. That tells me his NFL ceiling is probably something like Desean Jackson.
What the Giants need is a physical and reliable guy who can keep CBs honest but makes plays in the middle of the field and RZ. Earlier someone compared Treadwell to Alshon Jeffery. That would be the type of WR to pair with Beckham.
As far as institutional/scheme bias goes, of course you scout the name but you still have to consider it in my opinion. RG3 has been a bust. Say what you want about Wright but he hasn't lived up to the 20th overall pick. Gordon is talented but can't avoid suspension.
The Giants need a safe, clean prospect at 10. They shouldn't be picking a guy they have to explain or make excuses for.
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For those that say Treadwell is "definitely" not a top 10 player...I'd like to see a list of 10-15 players ahead of him.
Well, half those guys are not ahead of him, so there's that.
Elliot
Bosa
Ramsey
WJiii
Lawson
Tunsil
Jack
Rankins
Hackett
Doctson
I didn't even use qbs.
Comments on Treadwell from NFL.com:
Doesn't have the cushion-eating, vertical speed to scare cornerbacks. Cornerbacks will crowd his underneath routes from off-man coverage. Benefitted with several easy catches in space against zone coverage. Struggled to free himself from press coverage against LSU’s Tre’Davious White and may have separation issues in pros against quick cornerbacks. Takes time to gear down into breaks once he gets speed up. Could stand to be more physical in his release against press. Had more focus drops in 2015 than over previous two seasons. Suffered season-ending injury in November of 2014 with broken fibula and dislocated ankle.
Like many spread offense receivers, he has a limited route tree, really only runs about four different routes.
I don't get too caught up in the route tree talk. If a guy can run and get open he can work on adding a few routes. BTW, that comment above is about Treadwell.
When you say "Trust in the Process", and "don't read into it when we meet a player" How many meetings do you have like that?
Your making statements that are essentially indecisive, with no conclusive strategy.
Cancel the Theory in your mind about "don't read into meeting a player" That would be considered a waste of time. There is such a technique as the Smoke screen especially in competition. Considering that process would not require the Giants to continue that type of nonsense.
The Giants keep their list of valued 10th picks under close security. The "PROCESS" of the past PAST drafts were not evaluated as thoroughly, and may now include, dedication checks, physicals and the bonding of character that surrounds the players goals and ethics , as well as the beliefs of the organization.
I disagree. Our offense passing was pretty good passing last year even while having weak wr's other than OBJ. But it wasn't good running the ball. And you need as best "security" as you can get with having a naging Eli. Thus OT is a better pick
AND
That doesn't even include the defense. For example who is our starting DT besides Snacks? Who is our S?
That doesn't even include the defense. For example who is our starting DT besides Snacks?
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That doesn't even include the defense. For example who is our starting DT besides Snacks?
Exactly!! What is Johnathan Hankins? He is a two-down DT whose Rookie Contract will expire after this year. And JPP will probably be gone too. What is the Giants expectation of Hankins?
If you're trained eye was so good then why is he not ranked higher? Not trying to be difficult. No malice. But he seems at tops to be rated 10th. You're calling him "near unstoppable."
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Again I respect your difference of opinion but I don't actually think you've ever watched Treadwell play in a game, or at least it sounds that way. It sounds like you are reading a bunch of scattered scouts opinions on him and then posting them. I judge a player based on the eye test. And every game I have watched Ole Miss play, he is nearly unstoppable.
If you're trained eye was so good then why is he not ranked higher? Not trying to be difficult. No malice. But he seems at tops to be rated 10th. You're calling him "near unstoppable."
Understood - no malice here either - I love these types of threads because people have different opinions on players and why or how they would or wouldn't fit with the Giants.
That being said - being ranked 10th overall as a wideout is pretty special no? By no means am I saying he's the best player in this draft. But at 10? Sure - he's in that 8-15 conversation.
After seeing Sy say he had him going to the Giants I'm gonna go back & rewatch him to see if I'm missing something.
When I watch Treadwell I see a guy who doesn't get a lot of separation, allows a lot of passes to be batted down, doesn't have deep speed & makes a lot of his catches in wide open zones.
Watching the Oklahoma State game right now. Early in the game they sent him deep. He was blanketed & allowed an easy INT.
His first TD was for around 40 yards & he didn't separate. CB was right there. Treadwell didn't high point the ball. Got lucky the CB made a terrible play on the ball & it fell into Treadwell's arms.
His second TD was a nice play in which he beat the CB to the inside. Still had very little separation & bad technique from the CB.
His third TD was just awful coverage & Treadwell was left wide open.
He had 6 catches for 71 yards & 3 TDs. Outside of his 2nd TD there was nothing impressive about his performance. It was more about horrible defensive backs then it was Treadwell showing off his skills. He only had 1 contested catch & he didn't even try to high point it. Should have been an INT, but the CB made a terrible play on the ball. Going back & watching it I thought he did better while watching it live.
After seeing Sy say he had him going to the Giants I'm gonna go back & rewatch him to see if I'm missing something.
When I watch Treadwell I see a guy who doesn't get a lot of separation, allows a lot of passes to be batted down, doesn't have deep speed & makes a lot of his catches in wide open zones.
Watching the Oklahoma State game right now. Early in the game they sent him deep. He was blanketed & allowed an easy INT.
His first TD was for around 40 yards & he didn't separate. CB was right there. Treadwell didn't high point the ball. Got lucky the CB made a terrible play on the ball & it fell into Treadwell's arms.
His second TD was a nice play in which he beat the CB to the inside. Still had very little separation & bad technique from the CB.
His third TD was just awful coverage & Treadwell was left wide open.
He had 6 catches for 71 yards & 3 TDs. Outside of his 2nd TD there was nothing impressive about his performance. It was more about horrible defensive backs then it was Treadwell showing off his skills. He only had 1 contested catch & he didn't even try to high point it. Should have been an INT, but the CB made a terrible play on the ball. Going back & watching it I thought he did better while watching it live.
Ok so if you consider a 6 for 71 and 3 TD performance not that impressive - how are we supposed to measure games in which he played well? Cmon man. So basically all his catches and his TDs are all the other guys fault - got it.
His 2nd TD was a nice play. The other 2 were horrible plays by the CB. Neither of them will happen against NFL CBs. The first TD was for 34 yards. The rest of the game he had 5 catches for 37 yards. Is that impressive to you? Ole Miss had 2 players in that game with more yards then Treadwell.
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In comment 12876376 ryanmkeane said:
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Again I respect your difference of opinion but I don't actually think you've ever watched Treadwell play in a game, or at least it sounds that way. It sounds like you are reading a bunch of scattered scouts opinions on him and then posting them. I judge a player based on the eye test. And every game I have watched Ole Miss play, he is nearly unstoppable.
If you're trained eye was so good then why is he not ranked higher? Not trying to be difficult. No malice. But he seems at tops to be rated 10th. You're calling him "near unstoppable."
Understood - no malice here either - I love these types of threads because people have different opinions on players and why or how they would or wouldn't fit with the Giants.
That being said - being ranked 10th overall as a wideout is pretty special no? By no means am I saying he's the best player in this draft. But at 10? Sure - he's in that 8-15 conversation.
He really hasn't been in the 8 conversation much at all. I think 10 is about tops but more in the teens. Charlie Campbell has him 23. He doesn't seem that special. And as a result we could use more "frontline" picks.
Hargreaves
Jack
Floyd
Bosa
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In comment 12876380 giantstock said:
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In comment 12876376 ryanmkeane said:
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Again I respect your difference of opinion but I don't actually think you've ever watched Treadwell play in a game, or at least it sounds that way. It sounds like you are reading a bunch of scattered scouts opinions on him and then posting them. I judge a player based on the eye test. And every game I have watched Ole Miss play, he is nearly unstoppable.
If you're trained eye was so good then why is he not ranked higher? Not trying to be difficult. No malice. But he seems at tops to be rated 10th. You're calling him "near unstoppable."
Understood - no malice here either - I love these types of threads because people have different opinions on players and why or how they would or wouldn't fit with the Giants.
That being said - being ranked 10th overall as a wideout is pretty special no? By no means am I saying he's the best player in this draft. But at 10? Sure - he's in that 8-15 conversation.
He really hasn't been in the 8 conversation much at all. I think 10 is about tops but more in the teens. Charlie Campbell has him 23. He doesn't seem that special. And as a result we could use more "frontline" picks.
And since Charlie Campbell has him at 23 - that means he's the 23rd best player? Day of the 2014 draft, Campbell had Beckham 17th and Allen Robinson 58th. How'd that work out? Mock drafts and rankings mean absolutely nothing. It's work ethic, love of the game, and just overall being good at football that propel players in this league to be great. Not the combine and not pro days. If you watch Treadwell play and listen to him speak, you can just tell he's going to be a stud. Some guys just have it, some don't. I guarantee you he will be a very good to great NFL player.
I'd rather the size and physicality of Treadwell over the Mike Wallaceness of Coleman. Coleman may be fine, but he runs half the route tree and strikes me as a dropper.
Baylor's scheme and the Big12 in general, lend themselves to huge numbers. That's not necessarily a bad thing but it does raise questions about how good those players actually are.
See Griffin, Robert.
You dismiss players based on their college team and/or conference. It's one of the few things we can count on every single year on BBI.
The OT will help not only in protecting our QB/preserving him a highly valued player from getting beat up who doesn't scramble well, along with improving the running game.
IMO that is superior to 2nd wr/ though a starter. Premiere defensive teams will shut down a terrific wr core that doesn't have a running game.
So with that said I want an OT and I want my team to BE that terrific premiere offensive team. SO I'm with drafting the OT and also drafting defense.