There appears to be a BBI consensus that right now the biggest impact could be made on the giants by adding (in order) a WR, a ORT or a MLB - but there is also a hole in-waiting next year at LDE. JPP is only signed for 2016 -- in 2017 his position will need to be refilled again.
Now, of course, JPP could somehow convince the Giants that he should be considered a more permanent part of the Giants line, but if the Giants somehow don't see it that way, and they don't draft a premium Pass Rusher in the Draft this year wouldn't that leave the Giants with potentially a huge problem that needs to be filled on the team next year? Realistically how many years can JPP be a solid performer for the Giants? Can the Giants afford to take another swipe at a FA DE next year?
If the draft and the Giants are looking two years down the road - aren't they presently in a position where they must acquire another DE for the future?
LB, FS, #2 WR and RG/RT are definitely bigger "immediate" needs though. And I posted this on another thread, but that could be where Floyd fits in. Day 1 starter at OLB and slides up to "DE" on passing downs giving them an additional threat beyond JPP & Vernon.
Is Owa - still the unknown? I think the Giants are counting on him to be part of the rotation in the next couple of years with Wynn -- but you need two starters. Right now OV and JPP's contracts say they are the starters - and even a first round DE isn't going to be a DE starter - if you pick one in Rds 1-3 you probably wouldn't be expecting them to start until a year or two down the road. That argues for a DE to picked this year. We already have a project in Owa -- don;t you need to get another one with more of a leg up?
They make up for a ton on of deficiencies on the back end for sure.
They make up for a ton on of deficiencies on the back end for sure.
Too bad he didn't adopt that line of thinking before 2003.
That way, you allow yourself to grab a guy that might be a day 3 or later player if he just needs time to develop.
Lawson could turn out to be the best DE this draft from all I've read about him.
Behind these two starters, they only have OO and they don't really know what they have there yet. Then there's Kerry Wynn who is a nice 5th DE for a few seasons but probably nothing more, Maponga who was an end-of-the-roster player in Atlanta and probably won't make the GIANTS this year, and practice squadder Brad Bars who didn't even start as a Senior at Penn State.
So another pass rushing DE is still a very big need for current depth, and this is a position where depth is critically important and will play quite a lot and in important situations, not to mention the possibility of starting as soon as next season.
That said, I still think ORT to protect Eli and open holes for the running game is still THE biggest need because Newhouse is still the starter and the depth is guys you have never heard of, guys who came into the league as undrafted free agents and didn't make it with their original teams.
WR and CB are also right there as major needs too, not to mention LBs, a TE or two who can actually block, and they still need to re-sign Josh Brown or at least some other real NFL kicker. At least they have several warm bodies at Safety (Collins, Berhe, Bennett Jackson, Thompson, Cooper Taylor, Currie), some of whom actually look like they can play NFL football.
So there is still a whole lot of roster work to do, and getting another pass rushing DE should be right near the top of that list. Like first or second round in the draft.
Clearly, this is not an ideal year then, since the Giants just spent 85 million pazoozas on a UFA DE.
Oh, and RT is not a "perceived need," unless you think they're good-to-go with Marshal Newhouse starting. RT is an absolute need.
As for needs in general, it seems to me that every argument comes down to what's more of a need. We need to draft a DE in case we don't re-sign JPP in 2017. We need to draft a WR because we have no proven players except for Beckham. We need to draft a CB because we only have scrubs after DRC and JJ.
Well, in my view RT is the biggest need of them all, and in this draft, the odds of getting a very good one after the first round are greater than the odds of getting a very good DE, WR, or CB. That's another reason I favor going RT at 10.
If an OT winds up the BPA at #10 so be it, but it sucks, because DE, WR, and CB all hold more value than a RT. Targeting a RT at #10 is a bit desperate.
All that said, it still makes no sense to walk into the draft and decide to pick a RT at #10 or be damned.
If an OT winds up the BPA at #10 so be it, but it sucks, because DE, WR, and CB all hold more value than a RT. Targeting a RT at #10 is a bit desperate.
So is spending 200 million on three defenders. Desperate times - and these are definitely desperate times - call for desperate measures.
Tell me, who was the last mid-to-late round pick that became a starting O-Lineman for the Giants? David Diehl?
All that said, it still makes no sense to walk into the draft and decide to pick a RT at #10 or be damned.
Jon, they tried to find an OT in free agency. They failed. If they trusted Newhouse they wouldn't have tried.
Ramaan posted another #1pick on the OL is a overuse of resources. Colin, made a convincing argument that we will want a more impactful position than RT. But who?
Treadwell did not help himself today, but I don’t think the Giants were surprised. He’s not out of it yet.
I want to, but haven’t been able to wrap my arms around a 6’6” LB, Floyd, with skinny legs. I’d like to believe this guy is the new NFL in coverage, and edge rushing, but what 6’6” LB ever made it?
The 2 projected possible OT’s, Stanley & Floyd have the lowest floor in my opinion.
Let's say JPP has 12 sacks next season, how in the world are they going to afford to pay two DE's that kind of money, the answer is that they can't, it's that simple.
If JPP has 5 sacks and plays OK, then maybe he is affordable, but then do we need to help the position out anyway.
So the simple answer is that we need another DE, as we do a RT, as we do a CB, and as we do a WR, as we do a MIKE. LOL.
So I guess our first round draft pick can simply be the best player available, despite the position. As it should be, at #10 you draft a football player, not a position.
It's a glaring example of an inability to draft for future needs.
So, yes, we go into this draft with a need to draft a DE again for next year.
and the same goes for a number of positions. and hence the current status of the team.
hopefully, the reworked dynamic of the draft committee will yield better results.
What they should have done was made a more aggressive play for Mitchell Schwartz in the initial stages of free agency and the problem would be solved. It's not like we were strapped for cash. We still have $25 million in cap space. And Hitdog gave us the Giant free agency blue print and we know Schwartz wasn't in it. Now if they go with Newhouse as a starter, they need another back up swing tackle who will probably generally suck. When you rely on your back ups to be starters by choice instead of necessity your depth is going to suck.
It's not "forcing the pick" with the OT they'd select at 10.
RT is definitely a need....but it seems that they tried to get one via FA....and seem content to wait until more veterans are released. At least, it seems they are not targeting one early in Draft but who really knows?
The priority position is DE, LT and corner followed by WR. They strongly feel Flowers is their future LT. They have 2 stud corners and 2 stud DE but need 3 and could use 4...if they could trust Cruz.....then WR would not be as much of a priority.
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They still shouldn't force the pick.
It's not "forcing the pick" with the OT they'd select at 10.
It very well might be unless Stanley is there, and as much as you all hate to admit it choosing an OL in the first round 3 out of 4 years doesn't seem likely unless he is clearly the best prospect.
The Giants appear to be more comfortable with Newhouse than BBI is. They looked at some tackles in FA, but certainly don't appear to be in panic mode.
IMO it is much more likely they pick a guard in the middle rounds, watch for cuts, and let the right side of the line work itself out in camp.
I had a dream we drafted Shaq Lawson so you can rule him out.
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I still suspect we draft an Emmanuel Ogbah or Shilique Calhoun within the first two rounds. And the interest in Floyd is clearly a sign we want more pass rushers.
I had a dream we drafted Shaq Lawson so you can rule him out.
Lol not a fan of his but if we draft him, I trust the front office.
I really like Ogbah and Calhoun, however. And I think the Giants are snooping around those two. They've been interested in Calhoun for a couple years now (forgot where I read that) and they sent a decent sized entourage to watch Ogbah's Pro Day.
Eli can't continue to go out there and be expected to produce with the hands, he has been dealt.....too many think, hey we were the 6th leading scoring team last year......but what top defenses did we play? Only once did this offense score more than 30 points against a top defense, and that was after trailing 35-14, entering the fourth, when that team went on cruise control on defense.....how many times did this offense not show up until the fourth quarter? For the most part, this offense went up against middle of the road defenses....
Eli needs that second WR.....he needs protection from the right side....all the resources can't be just spent on the defense....this offense is a one trick pony, Eli to OBj....take that away, and this offense can go from 6th to 32nd in a heart beat...
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In comment 12878558 JonC said:
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They still shouldn't force the pick.
It's not "forcing the pick" with the OT they'd select at 10.
It very well might be unless Stanley is there, and as much as you all hate to admit it choosing an OL in the first round 3 out of 4 years doesn't seem likely unless he is clearly the best prospect.
The Giants appear to be more comfortable with Newhouse than BBI is. They looked at some tackles in FA, but certainly don't appear to be in panic mode.
IMO it is much more likely they pick a guard in the middle rounds, watch for cuts, and let the right side of the line work itself out in camp.
Newhouse was brought in for depth and is playing on a min salary. The Giants expressed interest in all of the top FA tackles on the market this year. That's hardly an indication that they are comfortable standing pat with Newhouse.
Also, I think the odds of JPP, Hankins, Snacks, and Vernon ALL staying healthy for the bulk of the season are slim and none. The Giants don't seem to have that kind of luck. Hope I'm wrong. Regardless . . .
I agree that they can never have too many pass rushers, and last year proved it. This draft is deepest and DL. GET MORE. 1st round or 2nd, I don't care which.
Newhouse was brought in for depth and is playing on a min salary. The Giants expressed interest in all of the top FA tackles on the market this year. That's hardly an indication that they are comfortable standing pat with Newhouse.
Keep saying that if it makes you feel better.
They obviously viewed DL and CB as the biggest needs. They practically handed Vernon a blank check.
They could have done the same with M Scwartz; Why didn't they? They had the cap space. They didn't make a serious run at the top tackles, they looked to be bargain hunting, not desperately looking for a RT.
This tells me they likely won't force a top 10 pick on the position either.
The Giants imv will be looking at premium positions at 10, CB, WR, ER. I don't think they view RT as a premium position.
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but it was a need last year too once Beatty got injured, and they still stuck with Newhouse. Given their lack of alarm this Spring, they're still trusting Newhouse.
All that said, it still makes no sense to walk into the draft and decide to pick a RT at #10 or be damned.
Jon, they tried to find an OT in free agency. They failed. If they trusted Newhouse they wouldn't have tried.
If they didn't trust Newhouse, they would've opened up the checkbook for another OT. It's not like they are searching the couch cushions for extra cap space right now.
we also have a tough to budge interior
this DLine is gonna be a site for sore eyes this year. we Giants fans deserve it after the last 4 years
we also have a tough to budge interior
this DLine is gonna be a site for sore eyes this year. we Giants fans deserve it after the last 4 years
I think the "missing link(s)" for the defense is a pass rusher of ANY KIND (LB, DE, DT) as well as a true, quality, proven FS.
I may be "crazy" here but what if we get LUCKY and fourth year guy Cooper Taylor plays well at FS? Or B. Jackson?? Or even M. Thompson assuming he bounces back to 100% from the achilles injury??? We need some LUCK for FS since it doesn't look like a veteran is a priority.
If LB Kennard can stay healthy and bring heat as a pass rusher we are improved. If we have solid blitzing from MLB Robinson we are improved. But if we add a true blitzing, stunts, find the matchup advantage PASS RUSHER in addition to what I believe we have (Solid, above average starting DL) then we get to the next level.
I think we'll be a much improved defense this year IF we get healthy, stay healthy, the youth improves and we draft well. Time will tell, but a defense ranked between 12 to 15 overall is my gut guess right now.
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Newhouse was brought in for depth and is playing on a min salary. The Giants expressed interest in all of the top FA tackles on the market this year. That's hardly an indication that they are comfortable standing pat with Newhouse.
Keep saying that if it makes you feel better.
They obviously viewed DL and CB as the biggest needs. They practically handed Vernon a blank check.
They could have done the same with M Scwartz; Why didn't they? They had the cap space. They didn't make a serious run at the top tackles, they looked to be bargain hunting, not desperately looking for a RT.
This tells me they likely won't force a top 10 pick on the position either.
The Giants imv will be looking at premium positions at 10, CB, WR, ER. I don't think they view RT as a premium position.
Excellent take on the Giants M.O.. Unless an unexpected top 5 blue-chipper drops at another position (thinking Myles Jack, maybe Tunsil depending on grade) it's very likely going to be Edge Rusher (Floyd likely), WR (Treadwell likely) or CB (if Hargreaves is there).
And free safety!
And that we [could also really use] a great DE prospect to take reps from the two starters, and for the future, and to rotate inside at those downs.
That said, don't fail to consider the supply or frequency of availability % of any of these types in case you plan to extrapolate the varied inputs here into draft rants.
"missing" is a very specific word
2. true rush type DT. missing, but easy to deploy, assuming the kid can also play the run. Rare type, for sure. but... very simple to deploy, if you have one, just line him up.
3. free safety / ball hawk type. remains to be seen if its been missing by design or by oversight.
4. slot wr, also missing, however, does it make sense to get one before the line is finished? debateable both ways.
5. fullback, ugh
6. legit wide right wr, ugh
7. great Mike, ugh
Let's say JPP has 12 sacks next season, how in the world are they going to afford to pay two DE's that kind of money, the answer is that they can't, it's that simple.
If JPP has 5 sacks and plays OK, then maybe he is affordable, but then do we need to help the position out anyway.
So the simple answer is that we need another DE, as we do a RT, as we do a CB, and as we do a WR, as we do a MIKE. LOL.
So I guess our first round draft pick can simply be the best player available, despite the position. As it should be, at #10 you draft a football player, not a position.
No. Look to win the game in the trenches. So 1st two rounds go get (it doesn't matter round 1 or round 2) an OT and the other get either a DE or pass rushing DT.