THE NFL DRAFT REPORT “CREAM OF THE CROP” SERIES – OLE MISS’ LAQUON TREADWELL HOPES THAT HIS ON-FIELD NUMBERS TRUMP HIS AGILITY TEST NUMBERS FOR THE NUMBER-ONE SLOT AMONG 2016 DRAFT RECEIVER HOPEFULS
Treadwell will be the first to admit that his 2016 NFL Scouting Combine and Pro Day performances in the agility tests left a lot to be desired. However, his performance on the field will likely see him remain the first receiver to be drafted – unless Baylor’s Cory Coleman dazzles at his Pro Day. This article takes a look at Treadwell’s high school and college careers, along with an extensive scouting report. It also contains a look at the receivers taken in the first round of the draft since 2000 and how their agility test numbers translated during their NFL lives. I also examine the history of Ole Miss receivers in the draft and a statistical breakdown of Treadwell’s college career. The link to this article can be found here;
http://nfldraftreport.sportsblog.com/posts/14969202/the-nfl-draft-report-s--cream-of-the-crop--series---ole-miss--laquon-treadwell-s-receiving-numbers-top-agility-test-numbers-for-the-number-one-slot-among-2016-draft-receiver-hopefuls.html
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Good stuff but you're comparing his proday vs combine numbers of these other WRs. Is that really legit?
For example, you mention Kendall Wright as a 4.6 WR who went high in the draft but that's his combine number. He ran in the 4.4s at his proday.
Some of the others such as Bowe listed at 4.57 at combine, ran in 4.4s at proday. Britt ran 4.47 at proday.
On your spreadsheet, just about all the guys listed over 4.5 are the combine times. It should be noted because the proday numbers are different.
Did you take a good look at what they allowed at the Ole Miss proday with the starts on the 40?
He didn't even have to get set or pause. They flagged him on a quick start on the 2nd run. He walked back to the line and did it again and they let it go on his 2nd run. That start would not have been allowed at the combine.
That 4.65 at the proday? Do the scouts look at that and really think 4.7+ when comparing it to combine numbers?
Who are the 4.6+ proday guys who were drafted high?
Only Landry really. He ran a 4.77 at combine. But his proday? 4.61.
Who are the 4.6+ proday guys who were drafted high?
Only Landry really. He ran a 4.77 at combine. But his proday? 4.61.
Add to this people are saying Treadwell looks a lot lighter, maybe around 210, down from 221 and still ran a 4.65 with a questionable start.
How many 4.7 receivers we picked in the top 10 or first round? That should be the question.
This. With the way the draft seems like it will unfold, the value at our picks looks like OT round 1, DE round 2, and WR in the 3rd or later.
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What I tried to show was that guys with 4.6 40s have value - look at teams that took those three & then 2 examples of 2nd rounders. Me? I'm more concerned about his leaps - he had a 4-inch average advantage on his man coverage CB last year, yet they knocked away 16 passes on the guy. I like guys that get to 70% of their targeted tosses & even though he is a tackle breaker, I did notice his high amount of TFLs last year. In other words, hope Jerry passes & let New Orleans worry if he's worth a round one pick in the first half. I personally feel OL is the way to go in round one, even if Elliott slides (doubtful), as this draft has a lot of round 2/3 WRs that can really make a mark & a ton of Day 3 guys that were with bad QBs, like the Ohio State kid Marshall, who I say is a big version of Darren Sproles (runner, slot, returns & even wildcat) that somebody could scoop up in 5/6
This. With the way the draft seems like it will unfold, the value at our picks looks like OT round 1, DE round 2, and WR in the 3rd or later.
Unless Stanley slides who is this OT value pick you guys keep talking about at 10? How is Conklin any more of a clear top 10 player than Treadwell?
The Giants aren't going to view RT as top 10 value anyhow, and they don't appear to be shifting Flowers.
It isn't a value pick. You just want an OT to fill a perceived hole. Just say you want an OT and stop dancing around it with the value bullshit.
And honestly who the fuck cares whether it's the combine or the pro day, whatever the time is that day, is the time. You're pushing an agenda is your entire argument is .1 seconds off the time from the combine to the pro day. It literally doesn't make a single bit of difference.
There is a difference between the times at pro days and combine. And the NFL cares about it because it is reflected in draft every year.
You don't care. Great. Keep moving.
And honestly who the fuck cares whether it's the combine or the pro day, whatever the time is that day, is the time. You're pushing an agenda is your entire argument is .1 seconds off the time from the combine to the pro day. It literally doesn't make a single bit of difference.
No, you couldn't be more wrong. It does make a difference. The combine is a far more accurate measure, and players routinely run "faster" times at their pro day. If you don't think .1 seconds is a big deal, watch this video... and tell me what .1 seconds difference means:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArjpZdl9uZg
Treadwell hasn't proven anything at the pro level. Since you admit you don't pay attention to anything else except "I watched the games," then people that have had years of experience evaluating college players aren't going to take your opinion that seriously, fyi.
.1 seconds is a big difference. And if Kwall is right about him not starting correctly, then the reality of the situation is that it could even be more. He could've been a 4.8 guy at the combine for all we know, and 4.8 isn't going to cut it in the NFL, regardless of how he did in college.
Emmitt is not a good comp, either. The speed factor at RB, while important, isn't quite as important as it is for WR's.
WHY LAQUON TREADWELL IS NOT A TOP WR PROSPECT - ( New Window )
Treadwell hasn't proven anything at the pro level. Since you admit you don't pay attention to anything else except "I watched the games," then people that have had years of experience evaluating college players aren't going to take your opinion that seriously, fyi.
.1 seconds is a big difference. And if Kwall is right about him not starting correctly, then the reality of the situation is that it could even be more. He could've been a 4.8 guy at the combine for all we know, and 4.8 isn't going to cut it in the NFL, regardless of how he did in college.
Emmitt is not a good comp, either. The speed factor at RB, while important, isn't quite as important as it is for WR's.
I'm sorry but that just isn't accurate. If .1 seconds was the difference between being open and not being open, you'd have everyone in the league that plays WR being an all pro. The difference between being open and not is route running, quickness, physicality, yes speed obviously, all those things combined.
Since when has the combine ever proven to be a good measure of how good someone is at football? You can't line people up and ask them to do a race and then say welp, this guy is clearly better. It's not track. It's football.
Yesterday, you had everyone freaking out about Tunsil's 34 reps on the BENCH PRESS. Scouts drooling over it. Cool. He's 315 pounds and built like a brick house, what do you expect? Didn't Mitch Petrus break the all time record?
Honestly, the infatuation with the combine gets more out of control each year. And with each passing year, players are taken/not taken because of it, instead of how they look out on the field during actual games. "Man - he can fly!" Awesome. Can he catch though? Can he get open? All questions that are somehow lost amongst the speed lovefest at the combine.
I'm interested in finding out how Treadwell does at using his body position to keep defenders from getting at the ball.
Nothing but horseshit comments from you. The discussion about Treadwell and his draft value centers around speed. People discussing it and similar prospects is a problem for you? You're the guy who needs the break.
Sorry, rant over.
It's easy to tell because that's the only thing you focus on. No positives, only that he timed slow. You literally can't look at anything else.
Tunsil pressing 34 reps takes any concerns about his strength, and his ability to keep DL from getting to deep on him, off the table. That doesn't mean that anyone thought Mitch Petrus was going to be better than Tunsil. That is why one will likely be the top pick in the draft, while the other made it to the 5th round.
The questions surrounding Treadwell were about his speed and explosiveness. They are legitimate concerns. Yes, a handful of guys have had success in the NFL with similar athleticism, but the odds are much longer. No one is saying he shouldn't be drafted, just that drafting him at 10 would be a huge reach.
Sorry, rant over.
You could use the same argument for guys that put up a lot of stats in college.
And yes, .1 seconds is 2-3 yards difference downfield. Do other things matter? Sure they do. It doesn't change the fact that speed also matters. Nobody's saying players need olympic sprinter speed. But if he ran a 4.55 nobody bats an eye about his speed. That's a respectable number for a bigger receiver. But a 4.65 Pro Day time is horrendous. You can put lipstick on that pig if you want, but he's not going to be the pro receiver you think he is. And it's not the only black mark against him... a poor vertical, not very good broad jump, not very strong. On the plus side, he blocks well, he runs pretty good routes. And that might be enough for him to do well in the NFL. But it's not enough to be drafted at #10 and maybe not in the first round at all. And depending on who else is there, I wouldn't take him at 40, either.
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In comment 12879485 nflscouting said:
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What I tried to show was that guys with 4.6 40s have value - look at teams that took those three & then 2 examples of 2nd rounders. Me? I'm more concerned about his leaps - he had a 4-inch average advantage on his man coverage CB last year, yet they knocked away 16 passes on the guy. I like guys that get to 70% of their targeted tosses & even though he is a tackle breaker, I did notice his high amount of TFLs last year. In other words, hope Jerry passes & let New Orleans worry if he's worth a round one pick in the first half. I personally feel OL is the way to go in round one, even if Elliott slides (doubtful), as this draft has a lot of round 2/3 WRs that can really make a mark & a ton of Day 3 guys that were with bad QBs, like the Ohio State kid Marshall, who I say is a big version of Darren Sproles (runner, slot, returns & even wildcat) that somebody could scoop up in 5/6
This. With the way the draft seems like it will unfold, the value at our picks looks like OT round 1, DE round 2, and WR in the 3rd or later.
Unless Stanley slides who is this OT value pick you guys keep talking about at 10? How is Conklin any more of a clear top 10 player than Treadwell?
The Giants aren't going to view RT as top 10 value anyhow, and they don't appear to be shifting Flowers.
It isn't a value pick. You just want an OT to fill a perceived hole. Just say you want an OT and stop dancing around it with the value bullshit.
RT isn't a "perceived hole," it's a real hole. I know you don't feel that way even though Newhouse sucked last year and is entering the last year of his vet min deal. Agree to disagree.
From everything I've read, there's a significant drop in talent at OT after Tunsil/Stanley/Conklin. The DE position is a lot deeper. I saw a mock today on NFL.com that had Ogbah going after our pick in the 2nd and Calhoun after us in the third. WR is weak overall but we can probably find a contributor who fits in the mid to late rounds.
I think it's better value for our team, when you consider the player and the class as a whole, to go OT at 10. It opens the Giants up to drafting to the strength of the class.
thanks for any insight here
thanks for any insight here
Nov 2014, he missed the rest of the '14 season (4-5 games?). Played every game in 2015.
Good stuff but you're comparing his proday vs combine numbers of these other WRs. Is that really legit?
For example, you mention Kendall Wright as a 4.6 WR who went high in the draft but that's his combine number. He ran in the 4.4s at his proday.
Some of the others such as Bowe listed at 4.57 at combine, ran in 4.4s at proday. Britt ran 4.47 at proday.
On your spreadsheet, just about all the guys listed over 4.5 are the combine times. It should be noted because the proday numbers are different.
Did you take a good look at what they allowed at the Ole Miss proday with the starts on the 40?
He didn't even have to get set or pause. They flagged him on a quick start on the 2nd run. He walked back to the line and did it again and they let it go on his 2nd run. That start would not have been allowed at the combine.
That 4.65 at the proday? Do the scouts look at that and really think 4.7+ when comparing it to combine numbers?
In fairness, the bigger difference is that it's hand-timed. The lack of set/pause is not necessarily of benefit to Treadwell, especially because of the hand timing. If the "official" time at the pro day went on his motion, he may have actually been hurt by not setting.
When I watched him run, he didn't look slow or labored. I'm still not completely sold on him at #10 (although I'm also not really opposed to it), but I also don't think his 40 time changed my opinion either way.
I'm curious what the point of continuing to beat the drum against him is though, KWALL. I mean, I think it's fair to say at this point that you've made your position pretty clear - you think Treadwell is overrated and you prefer Coleman. I'm not saying that we should stop discussing it, but there's no new content; you're just reiterating the same arguments against him.
And the start does impact it. He can get rolling a little or not have to hold it for 2 seconds like they do at the combine and it leads to quicker times. It's not just with Ole Miss. It happens at plenty of schools and it's one reason (along with hand time and track surface) that it is not an apple to apple comparison.
I do find it very strange that a few of you have a problem with my posts.
This was a talk about others who may have run the same who were drafted high from a new article by DaveTE. It's a new discussion for me.
That being said I want a disruptive defensive player in rd 1. if it were me.
And then I'd draft the best OL I could plug in on the Right side day 2.
is absolutely false. Nicks and Randle were drafted solely on athleticism? I guess you could make that argument on Wilson, but it's not really a fair one as his career was ended abrubtly so you can't say that's why he sucked as a draft pick, ditto for Chad Jones. JPP and Linval were strong picks.
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Why do you think our draft picks sucked from 2009-2012? Because we drafted solely on upside and athleticism.
is absolutely false. Nicks and Randle were drafted solely on athleticism? I guess you could make that argument on Wilson, but it's not really a fair one as his career was ended abrubtly so you can't say that's why he sucked as a draft pick, ditto for Chad Jones. JPP and Linval were strong picks.
My statement was that we drafted on upside and athleticism and that rings true. Reese even said it himself - they took too many chances on "boom or bust" players like Marvin Austin, Sintim, etc. Upside, upside instead of good football players. Also, let's not forget that Wilson basically wasn't that good. Other than the home game against New Orleans where he went crazy, what did he do? Hate to see what happened to him but He's an athlete, not much of a football player.
Ryan, in general you are burying yourself here re Reese drafting for athleticism over production. While sometimes true, it's also true the Giants had far too many injury washouts, too many "bad system fits", and most of all too many mistakes in character judgement about the players they selected having the will and heart and work ethic to take themselves to the next level in the NFL.
And that's the issue they addressed the most carefully the past two drafts with selections like OBJ, Richburg, Kennard, Flowers, Collins, Berhe, Jackson, Bromley, Jackson and Hart. Or so it appears...
As for the speed issue with Treadwell, there's no doubt Kwall is right that you can't and should compare pro day results directly to combine results. It is apples vs oranges.
In all liklihood, Treadwell has tested out of the top 10 with his 40 time, vertical and broad jump#s.. Maybe even the top 20, although his short shuttle and 3 cone results might suggest differently.
The other thing that stands out to me is the intensity. It's 100% on every snap. I don't see another WR in the class anywhere near Treadwell in terms of willingness and ability when it comes to blocking. Plays with some snarl without getting stupid for the most part.
I still think it may be a small reach at #10, but I would understand what they like about him.
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Linval was a good pick. But he wasn't that amazing of a pick. Real solid player. We could use more picks like him in rounds 3-5.
Ryan, in general you are burying yourself here re Reese drafting for athleticism over production. While sometimes true, it's also true the Giants had far too many injury washouts, too many "bad system fits", and most of all too many mistakes in character judgement about the players they selected having the will and heart and work ethic to take themselves to the next level in the NFL.
And that's the issue they addressed the most carefully the past two drafts with selections like OBJ, Richburg, Kennard, Flowers, Collins, Berhe, Jackson, Bromley, Jackson and Hart. Or so it appears...
As for the speed issue with Treadwell, there's no doubt Kwall is right that you can't and should compare pro day results directly to combine results. It is apples vs oranges.
In all liklihood, Treadwell has tested out of the top 10 with his 40 time, vertical and broad jump#s.. Maybe even the top 20, although his short shuttle and 3 cone results might suggest differently.
I agree with the majority but not sure how I'm burying myself. I said Reese has gone on record saying they've taken way too many boom or bust players. It's hurt them badly. To me, Treadwell is the exact opposite. Not sure what others are seeing but you can tell he's going to be a good football player based on the tape and the interviews. My overall point is that in those down draft years, Reese got away from football players and took too many "upside" guys.
RT isn't a "perceived hole," it's a real hole. I know you don't feel that way even though Newhouse sucked last year and is entering the last year of his vet min deal. Agree to disagree.
From everything I've read, there's a significant drop in talent at OT after Tunsil/Stanley/Conklin. The DE position is a lot deeper. I saw a mock today on NFL.com that had Ogbah going after our pick in the 2nd and Calhoun after us in the third. WR is weak overall but we can probably find a contributor who fits in the mid to late rounds.
I think it's better value for our team, when you consider the player and the class as a whole, to go OT at 10. It opens the Giants up to drafting to the strength of the class. [/quote]
That's actually not true. There is objective information as to how the team performed last year wrt its offensive ranking, sacks, pressures, etc. And, the team has at worst, the same starting OL. "Hole" suggests loss or absence. Given that we lost a starter, actually two starters if you count the loss of Cruz which was never filled last year, that much better fits the definition of "hole" as opposed to"weak" which in and of itself better fits Newhouse/Jerry and the OL. You can argue who might be the more valuable player (#2 WR or #2 OT, to use the common, dismissive terminology) and you can argue the relative abilities of the candidates for drafting, but the semantic argument is rather weak, IMO.
We'd all be psyched with a young Nicks at 10. At least we should be.
That guy will be the definition of mediocre at the NFL level.
That my friends is not the kind of skill positions you want in a WCO (skill position-driven) featuring 3 WR base.
Forget what you feel about Treadwell in a vacuum - for the particular position the Giants are in - when it's been shown they have nothing else TO WIN A GAME in the passing game when Beckham is take away - a big, reliable target on the other side who runs good routes, snatches the ball on contested catches and can be a reliable target for Eli - who can break tackles - is a tremendous "get" carrying huge value. He could be the pandora's box that opens up the O, makes it difficult to overplay Beckham and really lets our passing game lead the way, week in, week out.
Nothing else available at 10 trumps that value to our ability to win football games.
I look at Treadwell and I see Amani Toomer to Odell's Burress. The minute teams would overplay Plax, Eli would hit Toomer for a back-breaking completion. It was reliable.
To not have that is a burden to the QB/passing game in what McAdoo and everyone else calls a QB-driven league. It's about optimizing the conditions around your QB so he can maximize success.
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And yes, .1 seconds is 2-3 yards difference downfield.
No 0.1 sec is not 2-3 yards. 4.55 equals 26.4 ft/sec.
4.65 equals 25.8 ft/sec or a difference of .6 ft/sec or
3 ft (1 yd) in 5 secs.
It also depends on where the difference occurs - is it at the start or is it downfield.