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Some Thoughts on Leonard Floyd

Emil : 3/31/2016 3:00 pm
Once again the presence of Jerry Reese at a pro-day has BBI divided on a potential draft day target. Leonard Floyd is a 6'6" 240+lb freak of nature, who shows a nose for the QB and some rare coverage ability for a big man. Even those who say "NO" to Floyd at #10 would never deny his physical talents, (in the 90th percentile for height, broad jump, and vertical jump) but there are legitimate questions.

1. What is his true position
2. What about the "lack" of production
3. Is he a reach at #10.

There should be a handful of highly rated players available at #10, including the CB Hargreaves, OT Stanley, and possibly the RB Elliot. The Giants could certainly use any of those players, but there are arguments against these three as well.

1. On Hargreaves, you can make the case he allowed far too many completions, and is more of a gambler vice a cover corner at the next level. Personally, I think Eli Apple fits better, but is not necessarily worthy a the #10 pick. Ranaan thinks it very well could be Hargreaves, and I tend to agree with Ranaan on most things, but I could see the Giants having some reservations about Hargreaves and going CB in round 2.

2. Stanley is a very good OT prospect, who probably is a better LT than a RT, but does that distinction really apply in the Giants offense or broadly in today's NFL. My reservation is that spending a total of 4 premium draft picks on the OL appears to be misuse of resources.

3. Similar to Sy56, Elliot makes a lot of sense to me if he is there at #10. He is versatile and has no holes in his game. I'd just be surprised to see him sitting there at #10.

Floyd would not be a throw the remote pick for me, but I certainly understand why many have expressed great doubt about how he fits with the Giants. I've linked a BBV article which spells out some of this history as to why Floyd might fit. To summarize, Jerry Reese has been looking for this type of player for a long time. A LB with blitz ability who can play on the outside on 1st and 2nd down, and rush the passer on 3rd down. First attempt was Sintim, Kiwi was moved to this position, and the Giants tried to grab O'Brien Scofield for the same reasons. I would also add that the return of Spags only places more importance on this role, given that he was the first one to move Kiwi to LOLB, while still rushing the passer from DE or DT on 3rd down. Additionally, Spags has reportedly adopted many of the Raven's defensive schemes, which frequently calls for this type of player at LOLB.

A friend of mine is well connected to the Georgia Bulldog football program, and often receives information/perspectives straight from the program. I asked him for some thoughts on Floyd and here are the main points:

- Freaskish athlete, 6'6, 240s (needs to add some weight)

- Can play OLB in a 3-4, 4-4, or LOLB in a 4-3. Able to play a down 4 technique, down 5 technique.

- Had 17 sacks in 32 games, all while operating in a defense that was based on getting the DTs to clog the middle and drop OLBs into coverage.

- The Georgia DC was no considered to be aggressive (total opposite of Spags) and the Bulldogs had a VERY weak secondary during Floyd's years.

- The NFL draft arguably overvalues pass rushers, and Floyd might get taken a few spots too high. However, if the Giants don't take him at #10, they will find it hard to find another prospect with his physical traits, athletic ability, natural pass rush ability, and upside.

- He is almost certainly the most natural and explosive pass rusher in the draft, and has the biggest upside. Still has room to grow.

Obviously, we will all form our own opinions. But I see the logic for Floyd at ten. If he is the selection, I think we need to keep in mind that Spags will use him in ways Georgia rarely did. And that might make all the difference.


Leonard Floyd a dark-horse candidate for Giants' pick at No. 10 - ( New Window )
If they pick Floyd  
est1986 : 3/31/2016 3:18 pm : link
I expect him to be DROY. He should get a lot of tackles, sacks, and a few INT on our defense. If they pass on him I'm not going to expect much out of him in his career, we nail our first round pick 80% of the time.
Floyd's ability to cover slot receivers  
jeff57 : 3/31/2016 3:21 pm : link
and play with his hand in the dirt is unique.
I really liked Jamie Collins.  
Klaatu : 3/31/2016 3:27 pm : link
So I suppose I could learn to love Leonard Floyd.
...  
Gmen108021 : 3/31/2016 3:33 pm : link
FLOYD!! i am a fan of the pick, we need an impact defender, he does a decent job extending his arms at POA, if he can just get stronger and work on shedding those blocks and improve his run defense just a LITTLE, he can be a very solid player, even if he stinks in run coverage he will offer alot as a cover man on playmaking TEs and RBs and as a pass rusher
I'll go on record  
Saos1n : 3/31/2016 3:43 pm : link
I wouldn't be a fan... Nothing I've seen from him has me excited...
When I first saw Floyd it was watching him against Alabama  
Ira : 3/31/2016 3:47 pm : link
and he was getting pushed around badly. But it seems he's put on about 20 lbs since then while still retaining his athletic ability, so I'm not strongly against the pick.
We like Tweeners....  
MOOPS : 3/31/2016 3:49 pm : link
but we generally have no idea what to do with them. Pass.

Give me Eli Apple. He'll play right off the bat and will be DRC's replacement in two years. Quick enough to play the slot and big enough to cover large WRs.
Let's put the prospect of Hargraves to rest  
Elite Mobster #32 : 3/31/2016 3:49 pm : link
Hargraves is an undersized corner.
A case can be made, that he would be a superb slot defensive back.
Are we in the market for a slot corner in the first round? No
Has is been 32 years since a LB was chosen?
RE: Let's put the prospect of Hargraves to rest  
Klaatu : 3/31/2016 3:52 pm : link
In comment 12882981 Elite Mobster #32 said:
Quote:
Hargraves is an undersized corner.
A case can be made, that he would be a superb slot defensive back.
Are we in the market for a slot corner in the first round? No
Has is been 32 years since a LB was chosen?


Yup. Carl Banks, 1984, #3 overall.
RE: Let's put the prospect of Hargraves to rest  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/31/2016 4:12 pm : link
In comment 12882981 Elite Mobster #32 said:
Quote:
Hargraves is an undersized corner.
A case can be made, that he would be a superb slot defensive back.
Are we in the market for a slot corner in the first round? No
Has is been 32 years since a LB was chosen?



You say that with so much authority that it almost sounds like you know what the fuck you're talking about.

..but you don't.
The "Giants haven't draft a 1st round LB in 32 years"  
drkenneth : 3/31/2016 4:15 pm : link
Is something people like to scream from the rooftops around here as if we have passed on so many great LBs in the 1st round.

I almost want them to draft one now just to have BBI shut the fuck up.
RE: We like Tweeners....  
Gmen108021 : 3/31/2016 4:21 pm : link
In comment 12882980 MOOPS said:
Quote:
but we generally have no idea what to do with them. Pass.

Give me Eli Apple. He'll play right off the bat and will be DRC's replacement in two years. Quick enough to play the slot and big enough to cover large WRs.


Apple at TEN?!?! no shot not a good pick, he isnt close to a shut down corner like ramsey...at ten you need to draft a game changer he is just an average cover guy not good value at ten...
Warming up to Floyd  
SLIM_ : 3/31/2016 4:41 pm : link
A guy who can rush the passer and cover tight ends is not a tweener, that's called a weapon.

In 2007, I thought Kiwi could have been a pro-bowl SAM but injuries - his and other's prevented that from happening.

2007 - 1st year as a LB, gets hurt but shows flashes.
2008 - Has to move back to DE.
2009 - All of defense was a disaster. Not sure if he played linebacker or not. I don't remember him doing so.
2010 - Really flashed and I thought his career would take off as Fewell (yes, I said it) used him very creatively.

His career never really took off after that. He was a solid role player in 2011 and then went significantly downhill.

That said, Kiwi was nowhere near the athlete that Floyd was. If used correctly as a SAM, he would be on the line of scrimmage taking on the tightend. Too often, they played him off the line. This is where Floyd would seem to excel. He isn't the guy to take on blocks but better used in space.
I know highlight reels are just that, but  
Del Shofner : 3/31/2016 4:53 pm : link
Floyd looks pretty good on this one ...
... here - ( New Window )
RE: RE: We like Tweeners....  
allstarjim : 3/31/2016 5:07 pm : link
In comment 12883059 Gmen108021 said:
Quote:
In comment 12882980 MOOPS said:


Quote:


but we generally have no idea what to do with them. Pass.

Give me Eli Apple. He'll play right off the bat and will be DRC's replacement in two years. Quick enough to play the slot and big enough to cover large WRs.



Apple at TEN?!?! no shot not a good pick, he isnt close to a shut down corner like ramsey...at ten you need to draft a game changer he is just an average cover guy not good value at ten...


While I think Apple is a darkhorse at #10, you are underrating him. He has some real ability, could be a top corner in the NFL.
RE: RE: RE: We like Tweeners....  
Gmen108021 : 3/31/2016 5:10 pm : link
In comment 12883132 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 12883059 Gmen108021 said:


Quote:


In comment 12882980 MOOPS said:


Quote:


but we generally have no idea what to do with them. Pass.

Give me Eli Apple. He'll play right off the bat and will be DRC's replacement in two years. Quick enough to play the slot and big enough to cover large WRs.



Apple at TEN?!?! no shot not a good pick, he isnt close to a shut down corner like ramsey...at ten you need to draft a game changer he is just an average cover guy not good value at ten...



While I think Apple is a darkhorse at #10, you are underrating him. He has some real ability, could be a top corner in the NFL.



top corner in the NFL!?!?! are you his agent lol
man thats a bold statement.
still not crazy about the pick at 10, CB isnt a bigger need and i think in this draft at ten we will find a nice mix of need plus BPA
A top corner, yes.  
allstarjim : 3/31/2016 5:24 pm : link
Not that bold since he is widely regarded as a first round talent. People aren't drafting players in the first to be JAG's.
Still not impressed  
Marty866b : 3/31/2016 5:45 pm : link
He looks like a big wide receiver. Doesn't appear to be very physical and I would be surprised if he would ever be stout against the run.
The Giants  
PaulN : 3/31/2016 5:53 pm : link
Would draft a linebacker in the first round if he is a player that can rush the QB and get some sacks, I am not saying Floyd will become that, but he has the possibility to become that, he would fit much better on a 3-4 defense, no doubt, but I would not say no way to this guy.

Remember, they drafted Sintum in round 2 because they thought he could be that type player, he was a bust, and they tried to use a former first round pick in that role, but he was not real effective. Kiwi.

So there is no way you can say never if they believe in the player, do they believe in Floyd, I have no idea.
Kiwi at LB  
Samiam : 3/31/2016 6:02 pm : link
Kiwi wasn't moved to LB because they thought he would be a great LB or because they wanted to rush him from that position. He was moved because they were weak at the LB position and very strong at the DE position. And, they wanted to get their best players on the field as much as possible.
RE: Kiwi at LB  
Rjanyg : 3/31/2016 6:39 pm : link
In comment 12883217 Samiam said:
Quote:
Kiwi wasn't moved to LB because they thought he would be a great LB or because they wanted to rush him from that position. He was moved because they were weak at the LB position and very strong at the DE position. And, they wanted to get their best players on the field as much as possible.


Kiwi was put at SLB because he was too good to be in the bench. He was one of the best 6 players on our defense. Hence the move to Sam
barring some  
TommyWiseau : 3/31/2016 6:39 pm : link
top 5 talent falling to 10, every pick at that spot will have question marks. If we go with Floyd then we go with Floyd, one thing I do know is that Reese usually hits on his first round picks. It's round 3 and beyond that I am more curious/worried about in this draft. Round one and two, not so much
Go watch Georgia's biggest games  
BigBlueCane : 3/31/2016 7:00 pm : link
particularly that Bama game.

Floyd was a nonfactor, He is the Workout warrior of this draft.
Humor me please  
Rjanyg : 3/31/2016 7:27 pm : link
If Floyd was a 2nd round pick and started from day one at LB would you be ok with the pick? Is it just the 1st round, 10th overall pick that makes you think he will be a bust or will he be a bust no matter what?
Don't like it  
Glover : 3/31/2016 7:47 pm : link
I, like many fans, want the Giants to get some real LBs, but I dont think they need to spend a 10th overall pick on one who is not Miles Jack (and no, it would not be a good idea to give up compensation to move up for Jack). If there is a player who is the prototypical sideline to sideline tackling machine who can also cover backs and TEs, then I am all in. Floyd seems to be primarily a pass rusher, and I hear he lacks an NFL level pass rushing skill set, and I also understand he gets pushed around in the run game. If the Giants are going to draft a LB at 10 overall, they can't be taking a guy who has weaknesses like that, and hope he learns on the job because he has a high ceiling based on his measurables. NO.
I dont like taking a RT at 10 either. Seems like that position should be able to be filled in a later round, but I would prefer him over Floyd.
Does Hargreaves project to be better than Prince? Better than Jenkins? Both are good players, neither are elite CBs, does he have a chance to be in their league? If yes, he is worth the #10 pick.
I think Elliott is awesome, but like the RT position, they shouldn't need to spend that high of a pick on a RB. If they did, I would prefer that to Floyd.
I dont understand the tepid opinions of Shaq Lawson. Big, agile guy, with a proven motor, who gets to the QB. Played injured in the national championship and got 2 sacks. I like the guy. He makes too much sense. I dont care if they paid Vernon. The Giants need to never be in the position they have been in the past 2 years, where they dont have pass rushers. Defenses end up where the Giants defense has ended the past 2 years, when they dont have pass rushers. I don want the Giants trying to manufacture a pass rush with a LB, that is what DEs and hopefully DTs are for. Get a LB to tackle and cover. Play 2 LBs and an extra DB much of the time. Get the DEs to bring the pressure. Lets not try to reinvent the wheel here. If they want that kind of versatility they should just change to a 3-4. They need to be what they are, just get better players to be that, and they have spent a lot off money to make that happen.
I'm honestly  
ryanmkeane : 3/31/2016 7:48 pm : link
Not sure that Floyd will be available at 10. If it's between him and Stanley, coin flip for me. Hargreaves is probably option 3 in that case, and I may tend to go WR over Hargreaves if that's the case.
Bama tape he looks pedestrian.  
Watson : 3/31/2016 7:57 pm : link
If this is the only tape you watch, Floyd looks like he would fit in real well with the group of LB already on the roster.

You watch the highlight tapes, you see someone else. Someone worthy of a pick at ten.

Think if you're going to pick him, you need a definitive plan. Imo, run support will always be an issue. He's not a young kid who's body has yet to mature or overall skill set still needs time to develop. He'll be 24 in Sept.

RE: I know highlight reels are just that, but  
mrvax : 3/31/2016 8:19 pm : link
In comment 12883102 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
Floyd looks pretty good on this one ... ... here - ( New Window )


LOL- he looks like a young LT in that highlight video.
I understand the people with the raging hard ons for his athleticism  
Patrick77 : 3/31/2016 8:48 pm : link
I get it. What I can't comprehend is wanting an insane athlete that shows little strength, power, or physicality.

The guy didn't even bench at the combine or his pro day (which he didn't finish). I would not be surprised to find out there are a lot of wide receivers substantially stronger than him.

He isn't Clint (4.8 40) Sintim. He is not similar to Von Miller or Anthony Barr either. He isn't even Dontay Moch.

He is an insanely athletic WLB who has the body of a wide receiver. But hey he gained 20 pounds after the season so now he must be perfect.
He sounds like Demarcus Ware.  
Ivan15 : 3/31/2016 9:47 pm : link
If that is close to a comparison, count me on the bandwagon.
He is absolutely nothing like Demarcus Ware  
bigbluehoya : 3/31/2016 9:49 pm : link
.
People need to stop looking at the highlight clips  
bigbluehoya : 3/31/2016 9:52 pm : link
And start looking at the full game compilations that are equally easy to find.
Strength at the POA cannot  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 3/31/2016 10:22 pm : link
Be a weakness for the first first round linebacker we select in thirty years.
He might be more skilled than Gregory  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 3/31/2016 10:26 pm : link
But he doesn't seem to have the same ceiling as a pass rusher.

We need a guy to limit TEs but he'd also need to limit opposing running games. Natural pass rushing + cover skills is a nice combo but he needs to get a lot stronger and if that happens it will depend on how much quickness he loses.
I've talked about how soft he plays ad nauseum.  
chopperhatch : 3/31/2016 10:50 pm : link
But the thing I've been noticing recently with regards tobhis coverage ability. He is great at running with guys down field, but not great at flipping his hips and breaking on shorter routes. Like Witten's pro routes. He also doesn't read when the ball is thrown. Several times I've seen him have a guy covered, but he rarely turns around for the ball.

This guy scares the hell out of me because people keep forecasting him doing this and that that most LBs can't do. Well, I'm not sure he can deliver. He is SUCH a tweener. His pass rush comes from the blitz. I think he is going to get gobbled by blockers
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