"- Hargreaves and Floyd are the targets. Hargreaves is the higher rated prospect but he told me either of the two will make them happy. They like Floyd's versatility a lot. Spags wants him blitzing from every angle. Plus the ability of Him, Kennard, and Thomas to play multiple LB spots gives them flexibility."
I don't think Hargreaves makes it to 10 so Floyd will be the pick
That I really am intrigued about. But his softness at the POA, his propensity to "chase" the play is very unnerving. Plus, he's old for a rookie.
Basically we aren't drafting a player with the expectation of his being a superstar because when he's done with his rookie contract he'll be 29. So the people that say we shouldn't draft a RT or OG or RB or a #2 WR at 10. But drafting a player for one contract is totally cool?
That I really am intrigued about. But his softness at the POA, his propensity to "chase" the play is very unnerving. Plus, he's old for a rookie.
Basically we aren't drafting a player with the expectation of his being a superstar because when he's done with his rookie contract he'll be 29. So the people that say we shouldn't draft a RT or OG or RB or a #2 WR at 10. But drafting a player for one contract is totally cool?
They're going all-in for the final years of Eli Manning's career
agree he looks like the pick. He has the length and athleticism that seems to intrigue Reese. I wouldn’t hate it, but think we can do a lot better. Floyd can attack the edge and cover, but he’ll be destroyed at the LOS as a 4-3 DE against the run. That makes him a situational player in a 4-3, and therefore not somebody I’d want to take at #10. He’s might be a a WILL in a 4-3, but he’s probably best as a 3-4 OLB. So he looks like a guy who doesn’t fit our scheme.
He’s not a “low floor” “high ceiling” player. More like an “average floor” “high ceiling” player. But his real potential to be average makes him too risky for the Giants.
"- Hargreaves and Floyd are the targets. Hargreaves is the higher rated prospect but he told me either of the two will make them happy. They like Floyd's versatility a lot. Spags wants him blitzing from every angle. Plus the ability of Him, Kennard, and Thomas to play multiple LB spots gives them flexibility."
I don't think Hargreaves makes it to 10 so Floyd will be the pick
I'm selling hargreaves as the or a target.
He isn't the type of prospect that reese and Ross have targeted in the past, and he isnt best suited as a man coverage corner on the outside. He's better in a zone scheme where his size and athleticism are better utilized.
Reese and Ross have always tended drafted physically large players at their position and hargreaves is a serious departure from that philosophy.
agree he looks like the pick. He has the length and athleticism that seems to intrigue Reese. I wouldn’t hate it, but think we can do a lot better. Floyd can attack the edge and cover, but he’ll be destroyed at the LOS as a 4-3 DE against the run. That makes him a situational player in a 4-3, and therefore not somebody I’d want to take at #10. He’s might be a a WILL in a 4-3, but he’s probably best as a 3-4 OLB. So he looks like a guy who doesn’t fit our scheme.
He’s not a “low floor” “high ceiling” player. More like an “average floor” “high ceiling” player. But his real potential to be average makes him too risky for the Giants.
Acid: I think those are valid points but Giants signed a 3-4 NT and if they now take a 3-4 LB (which is what Floyd is), you have to wonder if they are planning to go more hybrid on defense.
RE: Floyd is the Porzingas of college draft picks Â
That I really am intrigued about. But his softness at the POA, his propensity to "chase" the play is very unnerving. Plus, he's old for a rookie.
Basically we aren't drafting a player with the expectation of his being a superstar because when he's done with his rookie contract he'll be 29. So the people that say we shouldn't draft a RT or OG or RB or a #2 WR at 10. But drafting a player for one contract is totally cool?
Hmm good point. Who you liking Chop? I won't be sad with Hargreaves for sure. Or Zeke Elliot. Or Tunsil. I'm even OK with Stanley.... lol
But don't let facts get in the way of your argument.
He had a 4.60 40, 38.5 inch vertical, 10'7 broad jump, 7.18 3 cone & 4.32 short shuttle. Had food poisoning for the last two so I'm sure they'd be better if he wasn't sick.
and use nothing but foul language for at least an hour. Kind of like how I reacted to the JPP pick, but at least he had the size to play DE. I dont think the Giants are going to take Floyd because Reese was at UGA's pro day, but if they do, I will be worried. For real.
He's got good pass rush skills and real good instincts. People will be concerned about him because Dion Jordan, but he's way better than Jordan was. I don't know if this kid will be great, but he won't be a bust.
Quote:
This guy can play anywhere you want him to play. Ideally, he's a 4-3 WILL and you have a big time playmaker there. He goes sideline to sideline and he's really smart.
his athleticism and ability to get to the QB. I think he'd be a nicew addition to the pass rush and defense as a whole. Prolblem is I would want he rushing teh passer on 3rd down rather then trying to cover TEs or RBs.
and use nothing but foul language for at least an hour. Kind of like how I reacted to the JPP pick, but at least he had the size to play DE. I dont think the Giants are going to take Floyd because Reese was at UGA's pro day, but if they do, I will be worried. For real.
He will play SAM on 1st/2nd downs, and move to the line on pass-rush situations.
and use nothing but foul language for at least an hour. Kind of like how I reacted to the JPP pick, but at least he had the size to play DE. I dont think the Giants are going to take Floyd because Reese was at UGA's pro day, but if they do, I will be worried. For real.
He will play SAM on 1st/2nd downs, and move to the line on pass-rush situations.
And that is where he will fail at his position. Playing at the POA is NOT his strong suit. If anywhere he should play WILL.
Quote:
Chopper
Big Rick in FL : 8:47 pm : link : reply
But don't let facts get in the way of your argument.
He had a 4.60 40, 38.5 inch vertical, 10'7 broad jump, 7.18 3 cone & 4.32 short shuttle. Had food poisoning for the last two so I'm sure they'd be better if he wasn't sick.
Lol, if you're going to come off as swarmy and condescending, maybe you should use a better argument. Fact is, if food poisoning really hampered his ability at the workout, you would like see him passing out or throwing up on the field. Or he should've complained about symptoms and asked to reschedule for another workout. That screams lack of toughness to me.
Fact is, he had 17 career sacks in 3 years (37 games). He also had zero interceptions and four passes defensed in 3 years. That doesn't sound like a LB with coverage ability to me.
Fact is, he will be 24 at the start of the season. How much more can he learn? How much more bulk can he add to the frame?
Fact is, your "facts" are workout numbers. His production nor his game does not match those numbers.
So as you can see, I've let tons of facts get in the way of me falling in love with Floyd as a top ten pick. And yet you come to me with how high he jumps and how fast he runs?
Good one Rick!
Floyd will be a good pro. His is definitely worth a 1st round pick Â
He will play 2 downs as an OLB and 3rd and long as a DE. He can cover, Rush the passer and play the run. Team captain. Screams Reese's type of player. Length, speed, athleticism. Production.
You always take a impact player at#10.Floyd is exactly what the giants need. Will lb that can blitz and cover.don't be surprised if von Bell s is our 2nd Rd pick. The d still has holes and it was atrocious last year.the 3rd and 4th should be used on ol and wr. Still some good prospects at that point.
Evening guys: Interesting discussion. One thing I have been cautioning folks these days is NOT to get too hung up on positions. And one especially does not want to get too hung up on a scheme/positions that were the design of a coach who is no longer here.
As I have argued in other threads it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that the Giants' #1 priority heading into the off-season was to jump-start the pass rush. And my sense looking at the draft is that the Giants' primary goal at the draft is to get another edge rusher. What makes floyd such an intriguing prospect for the giants is that a) he is potentially the best pure edge rushing prospect in this draft and b) that he is fast enough, quick enough and athletic enough that he can play WLB meaning that if he plays to his potential (and that is always the big IF) you get to have him on the field every down. Contrast that with guys like Lawson, Ogbah and Rankins who barring an injury will only be situational types in 2016. (Same for Hargreaves by the way who would only be their nickle corner.
My guess is that if the Giants did draft Floyd (and that of course is far from a given) Spags marching orders would be to find ways to get Floyd freed up so he could make plays in the backfield. If it was me I'd be lining him up on the line of scrimmage on the weakside in what would be almost a 5-2 type look.
and whoever they ultimately take my guess is that the first and foremost the Giants head into this draft hoping to add an impact playmaker or two and they'll worry about sorting out the positional niceties later.
Reminds me a lot of the love for Sean Weatherspoon, although no one is suggesting that Floyd could play the MIKE, and quite a few thought Spoon could.
Although he wouldn't be my first choice at #10 - my feelings on that subject are pretty well known - I wouldn't even think about throwing my remote. I'll root hard for the kid and keep my fingers crossed that he's everything his supporters say he is. God knows we need linebackers.
Reminds me a lot of the love for Sean Weatherspoon, although no one is suggesting that Floyd could play the MIKE, and quite a few thought Spoon could.
Although he wouldn't be my first choice at #10 - my feelings on that subject are pretty well known - I wouldn't even think about throwing my remote. I'll root hard for the kid and keep my fingers crossed that he's everything his supporters say he is. God knows we need linebackers.
I am so back n forth on the Giants picking him, mostly because I see Manny Lawson. I see a guy in no man's land that got shut down by the Vandy RT. I see a guy who couldn't get through two workouts and might be an injury risk. I see a player who despite being repped as being strong in coverage, doesn't seem to make plays on the ball. I see a guy with virtually no college numbers to speak of. I see a lot of risk when we could have a slam dunk on the OL or at WR and keep building piece by piece. I just don't see this guy as being a cross between Julian Peterson and DeMarcus Ware like many have suggested.
Floyd did not get shut down by any means vs Vandy. That's crazy. I believe he had 3 pressures, 1 sack, covered a tightend man to man, and also covered a slot wr on a 9 route....all in the first 7 minutes of that game on draftbreakdown.com.
Floyd did not get shut down by any means vs Vandy. That's crazy. I believe he had 3 pressures, 1 sack, covered a tightend man to man, and also covered a slot wr on a 9 route....all in the first 7 minutes of that game on draftbreakdown.com.
First off, that was Vandy. I knew I used it as an example, but I don't even think they have a player that figures to be drafted in the first three round on their entire team. I watched the draft breakdown of that and while he was able to run down the field with receivers, he also had zero ball skills. He was in the wash every running play.
Despite what people here were saying, I actually thought he looked decent against Bama. But that also shows a lot of inconsistency
Floyd did not get shut down by any means vs Vandy. That's crazy. I believe he had 3 pressures, 1 sack, covered a tightend man to man, and also covered a slot wr on a 9 route....all in the first 7 minutes of that game on draftbreakdown.com.
First off, that was Vandy. I knew I used it as an example, but I don't even think they have a player that figures to be drafted in the first three round on their entire team. I watched the draft breakdown of that and while he was able to run down the field with receivers, he also had zero ball skills. He was in the wash every running play.
Despite what people here were saying, I actually thought he looked decent against Bama. But that also shows a lot of inconsistency
My question is how much of that is on the coaches who kept moving him around.. playing right side.. left side.. on the line.. as a MLB..
How much did that contribute to his inconsistency?
did that hamper his development and can he develop further..
Blueblood, I grant you those points about Taylor & Ware, but .... Â
All I'm saying - that's not the ideal size that you're looking for at linebacker (especially at that height).
Taylor was a freak. I never understood how held up at DE going against men that were sometimes 100 pounds heavier than him.
+
I think he would be fine as a WILL linebacker.. not so sure at the SAM.. but its all about how the Giants would use him.. but I dont have an Anita Marks/Myles Jack crush on FLoyd..
I just try to learn as much about who the Giants MIGHT pick as possible.
I get the interest with his pass rush ability but Â
I see nothing else. I don't see the hype about his coverage skills. Yes, he can run! But, I have yet to see were he actually made a play. What good is that?
IMO he could definitely be a bust. He just strikes me as a combine/workout warrior. I'd rather pass and go for an OT, Hargreaves, or Jack (if by the grace of god he falls).
Those who keep harping about Floyd as a DE, or 34 OLB are just digging deep for a reason to be contrary. Everyone is entitled to their preference, but it is unnecessary to utilize conjecture for factual evidence. No one knows how Floyd would stand up at the POA because we have yet to see him play with his added wieght and strength. Those who want to claim PED for his wieght gain, produce evidence or let it go.
You cannot dispute the results of his combine performance, they were with the added wieght. There isn't another prospect which offers Floyd's diverse measurables and athletic attributes. So if you have another preference, thats okay, you are entitled to free will and choice. Just stop with the prejudice analysis because it isn't what you want.
Some people have a preference for Offense passing or running. but if you are a true Giants fan you know and bleed DEFENSE! The very fact that we have recently endured such poor representation of it should make us hunger for its restoration. Also, if we know that our franchise has a specific criteria as to measurables of preference, why place expectations on a prospect that doesn't meet them.
Giants fans are noted for their knowledge of the game, so lets demonstrate those traits in our analysis and projections. Just because we favor a player, does not make for a possibility unless they meet the criteria of the personnel selecting. This offseason has been specifically about restoring the Defense, the strength of this draft is Defense, so why are so many fixated on the Offense.
Hargreave at 5'10" does not meet the criteria associated with Giants brain truat for a CB. Stanley is not dynamic enough, Lee 6'0" does not meet the criteria as far as measurables. As some have said, we need to wait and see if there is any movement of draft choices at the top, but if Forrest or Jack don't fall to 10, I fully expect Floyd to be the choice.
For those who will throw the remote at the choice, well you can just buy a new one and enjoy the rebirth of the Giants LB corps. What a welcome sight that will be!!
I see you are infatuated by Floyd's workout numbers. I guess you haven't seen him play football because if you have and have some knowledge of the game you would have to be somewhat concerned about his ability on the field to be selected as the 10th best player available in the entire draft. His game films are not to be very excited about. Stop reading reports and combine numbers and youtube Floyd and see if you like the way he plays.
ive had bad food poisoning.. fever, chills, and the runs..
you aint running around if that is going on..
I think they don't believe he had food poisoning.
Also, it is so hard to get foood poisoning. And knowing that you have the biggest workout of yofr career the next day, why would you eat anything questionable?
I've had it twice, both times were when I ordered out.
Manny Lawson didn't have the same balance as Floyd. Lawson doesn't bend like Floyd. I think Floyd is far ahead of Lawson (who came out of NC state and was more raw) regardless of age. Most players come into the league at 23 years old. He may be ready to roll from day one. Lawson was a projection. Floyd was doubled, and generated pressure in one form or another on most 5 step drives.
And.. as others have mentioned, he can run with TE's. Its a rare combination to be that useful on 3 downs. I watch the tape and feel on third down he contributes tomorrow. I watch the tape and feel that he's not going to hurt us on first and second down.
Manny Lawson didn't have the same balance as Floyd. Lawson doesn't bend like Floyd. I think Floyd is far ahead of Lawson (who came out of NC state and was more raw) regardless of age. Most players come into the league at 23 years old. He may be ready to roll from day one. Lawson was a projection. Floyd was doubled, and generated pressure in one form or another on most 5 step drives.
And.. as others have mentioned, he can run with TE's. Its a rare combination to be that useful on 3 downs. I watch the tape and feel on third down he contributes tomorrow. I watch the tape and feel that he's not going to hurt us on first and second down.
And neither of them had any kind of college production to warrant getting taken in the top ten. At least Manny got taken at 22.
I see you are infatuated by Floyd's workout numbers. I guess you haven't seen him play football because if you have and have some knowledge of the game you would have to be somewhat concerned about his ability on the field to be selected as the 10th best player available in the entire draft. His game films are not to be very excited about. Stop reading reports and combine numbers and youtube Floyd and see if you like the way he plays.
Marty, to each his own, but Floyd is a guy I like more and more as I watched more tape of his. The comparison to Demarcus Ware is valid at least insofar as Floyd made a lot of college OTs grab, pull, rope him around the neck as he turned the corner on them pass rushing. And his cut step to the inside is murder when an OT opens that up to him.
I noticed that when at ILB his quickness got him caught up in the soup. I noticed that a ILB he was not coached in how to stick the shoulder under the blockers pads to maintain outside leverage. To tell you the truth he needs alot of work to be successful as an ILB.
When at OLB there was a radical change, when rushing he got into the OT quickly and was held alot, but the pressure was continuous. When he broke off into coverage he was always locked inot his man. There was no free roaming even on comeback routes. At OLB he played downhill, was disruptive against bith the run and pass. Now is he a finished product no, would the offseason conditioning program be helpful absolutely.
What no amount of coaching can provide is the natural athleticism Floyd is blessed with. Many have stated that Floyd would not fit in a Spagnoulo Defense, to me that is just memory lapse. It was Spags who changed Kiwanuka into the hybrid LB to get the pass rush ability on the field. With Floyd their would be no adaptation because he is an OLB. So what was originally invisioned will now be manifest with the intended impact and disruption.
Also some have talked about his level of competition, he played in the SEC. Now why he wasn't coached into added wieght? As for why the combine results are so important? The showed all that with the added wieght there was no loss in explosiveness. 39" vertical and 10.6 broad jump at 246 lbs, for an athlete who is 6'6" is remarkable. If you want to look at tape that would depict the quickness of Floyds first steps in the pass rush look at OSi's game film.
Floyd is a true OLB, who will give the Giants Defense something that has been lacking since Boley left, a weapon to eliminate the TE free riegn through our Defense.
He made a lot of college OTs look like David Diehl Â
Floyd, is a dynamic athlete. He is a olb that can blitz and cover the rb and te who give the giants, so much trouble. His speed and agility at his size are excellent. I'm hoping he makes it to our pick? Don't like Stanley, he's Beatty no 2. Conklin, will be a good RT but he's a RT. Not a good pick for pick 10 Rd 1. Hargreaves, very good but only 5'10. I guess we will all see in less than a month.
RE: RE: Floyd is the Porzingas of college draft picks Â
Evening guys: Interesting discussion. One thing I have been cautioning folks these days is NOT to get too hung up on positions. And one especially does not want to get too hung up on a scheme/positions that were the design of a coach who is no longer here.
As I have argued in other threads it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that the Giants' #1 priority heading into the off-season was to jump-start the pass rush. And my sense looking at the draft is that the Giants' primary goal at the draft is to get another edge rusher. What makes floyd such an intriguing prospect for the giants is that a) he is potentially the best pure edge rushing prospect in this draft and b) that he is fast enough, quick enough and athletic enough that he can play WLB meaning that if he plays to his potential (and that is always the big IF) you get to have him on the field every down. Contrast that with guys like Lawson, Ogbah and Rankins who barring an injury will only be situational types in 2016. (Same for Hargreaves by the way who would only be their nickle corner.
My guess is that if the Giants did draft Floyd (and that of course is far from a given) Spags marching orders would be to find ways to get Floyd freed up so he could make plays in the backfield. If it was me I'd be lining him up on the line of scrimmage on the weakside in what would be almost a 5-2 type look.
and whoever they ultimately take my guess is that the first and foremost the Giants head into this draft hoping to add an impact playmaker or two and they'll worry about sorting out the positional niceties later.
I noticed that when at ILB his quickness got him caught up in the soup. I noticed that a ILB he was not coached in how to stick the shoulder under the blockers pads to maintain outside leverage. To tell you the truth he needs alot of work to be successful as an ILB.
When at OLB there was a radical change, when rushing he got into the OT quickly and was held alot, but the pressure was continuous. When he broke off into coverage he was always locked inot his man. There was no free roaming even on comeback routes. At OLB he played downhill, was disruptive against bith the run and pass. Now is he a finished product no, would the offseason conditioning program be helpful absolutely.
What no amount of coaching can provide is the natural athleticism Floyd is blessed with. Many have stated that Floyd would not fit in a Spagnoulo Defense, to me that is just memory lapse. It was Spags who changed Kiwanuka into the hybrid LB to get the pass rush ability on the field. With Floyd their would be no adaptation because he is an OLB. So what was originally invisioned will now be manifest with the intended impact and disruption.
Also some have talked about his level of competition, he played in the SEC. Now why he wasn't coached into added wieght? As for why the combine results are so important? The showed all that with the added wieght there was no loss in explosiveness. 39" vertical and 10.6 broad jump at 246 lbs, for an athlete who is 6'6" is remarkable. If you want to look at tape that would depict the quickness of Floyds first steps in the pass rush look at OSi's game film.
Floyd is a true OLB, who will give the Giants Defense something that has been lacking since Boley left, a weapon to eliminate the TE free riegn through our Defense.
Kiwi was a pure DE who they wanted to get on the field to rush the passer. He didn't have anywhere near the speed, flexibility or movement that Floyd has.
Why would either of them have to come off the field? Most likely you take Damon Harrison off the field. Shift JPP inside & put Floyd at left end or you rush him from the OLB spot behind OV/JPP
This guy can play anywhere you want him to play. Ideally, he's a 4-3 WILL and you have a big time playmaker there. He goes sideline to sideline and he's really smart.
So Big Rick wants to play the one-handed $10 million DE at DT Â
Colin@gbn...Floyd...you get to have him on the field every down. Contrast that with guys like Lawson, Ogbah and Rankins who barring an injury will only be situational types in 2016. (Same for Hargreaves by the way who would only be their nickle corner.
Ogbah is a beast vs the run, easily the best 'two-way DE in this class. So he would stay on the field. Now his pass rush arsenal needs development but if the Giants don't believe in his ability to apply pressure he won't be the pick anyway.
Same goes for Hargeaves. He's a good and willing tackler. Hell nickel CB is almost a full time position in the NFL these days anyway. And DRC isn't getting any younger. Drafting him(if he's even available) pays huge dividends as he'll be the starting CB by year three at worst.
Hell noone even knows what position Floyd might play in our scheme. So to predict him as an every down starter is a reach right out of the gate. I see no advantage in attempting to extrapolate now who has the most immediate contribution as a starter. Frankly it's a pointless exercise.
You asked which of our DEs are coming off the field on 3rd down. I answered that question. If you don't think that JPP & Vernon are going to play LDE, RDE, LDT & RDT throughout this year then you are crazy. They will also probably play some OLB like OV did with Miami.
and be utilized in our Nascar Package on 3rd down (don't know why guys arguing with Big Rick, on this one), I'm in. The main reason I don't want Lawson, or another DE, is I want a 3 down player at 10. We have too many starting holes to double up yet at a position of set with a starter.
I know the size measurables are not great, but with a month to go, wouldn't be surprised to start seeing more love for Darron Lee.
Trying to figure out the same thing. Like have they not watched the Giants defense under Spags since he's been here? The DEs get moved to DT. They get moved to OLB.
DE's rotate anyway. Noone stays on the field all the time. Snacks is likely to come off the field in clear passing situations for a NASCAR package anyway. Whoever wins the 3rd DE spot will play more than enough to alleviate any concerns over how to get him on the field.
that's for sure. How will it translate to the NFL? Whats most intriguing to me is how he'd play with the front 4 in front of him that we'll be employing. None of us know that, but I can assure you that the Giants have a better grasp on it then any of us do. I can see all the pros and cons, but if the Giants feel he's a playmaker and worth the #10 pick, I'm all in. Reese has been pretty darn good in the early rounds of the draft and I'm sure the front office will have done its homework here too. As one Ernie Accorsi used to say, "you can never have enough pass rushers".
Lastly, I'm not so sure he would be asked to cover TEs all that much, as his value is really as a pass rusher. He could be used more as the Broncos used Von Miller too.
I can't speak for Colin, but I believe that's what he was trying to say. Most likely you get far more snaps out of Floyd in 2016 then Shaq, Ogbah or Rankins.
Although I don't think there's a chance we take any of those guys at 10.
Thanks for the comment Rick, although I don't think Torrag was all that close. My original point was stop getting so effing hung up on positions! Nobody nknows what scheme the Giants are going to run this fall because unlike the past decade and a half when we did what we did because that's what we did Reese, the front office and McAdoo want this team to be more proactive and build their schemes around the talent they do have rather than the opposite. B) The Giants main priority this off-season has been to juice the pass rush and the only way to do that is get pass rushers on the field. And the neat thing about Floyd as a prospect is that not only is he one of the top 2-3 edge rushers in this draft with a huge upside, but that he is potentially good enough at the other things required of a 4-3 WLB to be a full time player from the get go (assuming he can play which of course is the $64K question with every draft pick). No matter how good those other guys are they are going to be situational players for a good chunk of the 4-5 years you are guaranteed to have them as an added bonus.
At DE JPP is on a one year deal that noone can predict the results of on the field or contract wise for the future. DE is definitely a long term wise investment in this draft.
DRC is 30 and probably has this year guaranteed as a starter then all bets are off and may the best man win the job. While at the same time slot CB is essentially a starting position in today's NFL. PT would not be a concern if hargeaves is the pick.
Sounds like you have a woody for Floyd and that's fine but you logic to prioritizing him over a DE or Cb selection doesn't hold water for me.
Gmen: we really like lee and are a little surprised he is not getting more props from the Giants. However, while he's a terrific athlete who can really run he is still more of a pure 4-3 WLB and I really think the Giants are thinking more pass rusher than just a LB. Lee can rush the QB, but he's more of a straight line guy who'll get there with his speed if there is a seam but isn't going to dip and work around guys.
I've been trying to tell people the same thing over the last few weeks. Stop worrying about position labels & get your best players on the field. The Cardinals showed this year that you can do that with a lot of success. The Pats have also been doing it for years.
I remember when Jamie Collins came out people said he didn't have a position. Well maybe not, but Bill got him on the field & he is a complete fucking animal.
this is why DC's like Tim Lewis failed miserably. They forced players to fit into their scheme instead of building the scheme around the strength of the players.
Floyd doesn't have the strengthes you think he does Â
I noticed that when at ILB his quickness got him caught up in the soup. I noticed that a ILB he was not coached in how to stick the shoulder under the blockers pads to maintain outside leverage. To tell you the truth he needs alot of work to be successful as an ILB.
When at OLB there was a radical change, when rushing he got into the OT quickly and was held alot, but the pressure was continuous. When he broke off into coverage he was always locked inot his man. There was no free roaming even on comeback routes. At OLB he played downhill, was disruptive against bith the run and pass. Now is he a finished product no, would the offseason conditioning program be helpful absolutely.
What no amount of coaching can provide is the natural athleticism Floyd is blessed with. Many have stated that Floyd would not fit in a Spagnoulo Defense, to me that is just memory lapse. It was Spags who changed Kiwanuka into the hybrid LB to get the pass rush ability on the field. With Floyd their would be no adaptation because he is an OLB. So what was originally invisioned will now be manifest with the intended impact and disruption.
Also some have talked about his level of competition, he played in the SEC. Now why he wasn't coached into added wieght? As for why the combine results are so important? The showed all that with the added wieght there was no loss in explosiveness. 39" vertical and 10.6 broad jump at 246 lbs, for an athlete who is 6'6" is remarkable. If you want to look at tape that would depict the quickness of Floyds first steps in the pass rush look at OSi's game film.
Floyd is a true OLB, who will give the Giants Defense something that has been lacking since Boley left, a weapon to eliminate the TE free riegn through our Defense.
Great post
Agreed. Great post. But we better hope he can play the WILL, and cover all those TEs that have been killing us for years. The Giants probably don’t envision him as a standard 4-3 DE, except on pass rushing situations.
ive had bad food poisoning.. fever, chills, and the runs..
you aint running around if that is going on..
I think they don't believe he had food poisoning.
Also, it is so hard to get foood poisoning. And knowing that you have the biggest workout of yofr career the next day, why would you eat anything questionable?
I've had it twice, both times were when I ordered out.
people get food poisoning all the time and don't realize that is what is bothering them. What is not common is severe food poisoning from the 4 major culprits, salmonella, shigella, boro virus and e coli. There are more than 250 diseases caused by food poisoning that can range from mild discomfort to death. Something like campylobacter which causes diarrhea is fairly common and most people recover on their own with no medical treatment. You have most likely had some form of food poisoning within the last month and didn't know that was what was wrong. Most likely it was from food from your own kitchen since it is difficult to identify what food caused the issues without tests and the various periods of time from 1 to 48 hours before symptoms present themselves.
1-food poisoning is common
2-food poisoning is often undisguised
3-identifying the source is most often not possible
4-every meal you eat is "questionable" since often the bacteria comes from your own hands
If the Giants pick Floyd I'd be fine as they usually hit these picks Â
And obviously know a lot more than the average fan.
My problems with Floyd are he looks soft, quit twice on workouts, played at a stick thin weight and then jumped 20 pounds after the season. He had never ever played at his workout weight. He also never benched once for scouts. There are important questions on why the above happened.
I also worry that he isn't a 3 down player. Just because he can cover and rush the passer while being tall and insanely fast doesn't change the fact he often tackles weak and scouting profiles mention him struggling with blocks when teams run at him.
Hopefully he can work on this. Hopefully behind Vernon, JPP, Hankins, and Harrison he and Robinson would be protected but if he can't hold up at the point of attack and tackle well he could be a liability on 1st and 2nd downs when teams run the ball. He absolutely will play in the NFL and have success, but his floor is a 3rd down specialist IMO.
and get an extra pick or two. Hope it works out that way.
If you could get Ramsey or one of the elite prospects then keep #10 pick - otherwise trade it - if you can drop no more than 5-10 spots.
There's a reason a player with Floyd's pass rushing acumen Â
Is barely scratching the Top 10. There are concerns about his run defense and questions about his playing weight and position fit in the league. There are blank spaces in his workouts he hasn't filled in and seems unwilling to do so.
This isn't a lock top ten player. He's more of a fringe tease that carries significant risks. Caveat emptor...let the buyer beware. I'd pass at #10.
LCB - Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
RCB - Janoris Jenkins
FS - Bennett Jackson
SS - Nat Berhe
Spags made an interesting comment a few days ago - the moves up front will help the back 7. In the above personnel grouping, even though they have 5 DBs on the field and their base MIKE (Brinkley) off, the front 4 can stop the run. This allows them to to play coverage behind the front 4 or send Floyd and Collins on the blitz. That is a lot of athletes to worry about.
A QB looking to unload quickly with DRC and Janoris Jenkins at CB is asking 4 trouble.
From The Atlanta Journal-Constitution - "It wasn’t an injury,” Floyd said. “It was more that I ate something for breakfast, and I had a messed-up stomach. I couldn’t keep going.”
Article goes on to speculate he ate to much for breakfast in order to improve weigh-in. Also, didn't seem to understand importance of completing work out.
Anyone know if NYG have scheduled private workout?
I think he will be the pick because he has been used in so many ways at Georgia that he has experience playing just about position from WLB, ILB, SLB, DE, DT, Slot. He is strong in coverage, strong in the blitz, good at bending and getting pressure from the DE spot. His one area he needs work in would be inside but I don't see him as a MLB.
The mail concern I have is with his shoulder. He didn't bench at the combine or at the pro day. I hope NYG has a private workout for him and gives him a physical.
Otherwise, he is a perfect weapon to add to the front 7.
Reminds me a lot of the love for Sean Weatherspoon, although no one is suggesting that Floyd could play the MIKE, and quite a few thought Spoon could.
Although he wouldn't be my first choice at #10 - my feelings on that subject are pretty well known - I wouldn't even think about throwing my remote. I'll root hard for the kid and keep my fingers crossed that he's everything his supporters say he is. God knows we need linebackers.
I am so back n forth on the Giants picking him, mostly because I see Manny Lawson. I see a guy in no man's land that got shut down by the Vandy RT. I see a guy who couldn't get through two workouts and might be an injury risk. I see a player who despite being repped as being strong in coverage, doesn't seem to make plays on the ball. I see a guy with virtually no college numbers to speak of. I see a lot of risk when we could have a slam dunk on the OL or at WR and keep building piece by piece. I just don't see this guy as being a cross between Julian Peterson and DeMarcus Ware like many have suggested.
I was back and forth too after watching the Vandy tape. But, look again. He has other tape where the speed and dexterity comes to fruition with numbers and plays. At first, during this UG vs Clemson highlights I had the same feeling (this guy has the tools he just doesn't follow through. By the third quarter, I felt like it was like those games where Strahan struggled at first but by the fourth quarter he has 2 sacks and the opponents' offensive line has no juice left. I'm most impressed by his lack of fatigue in combination with his athleticism. He's got a motor. Floyd vs. Clemson - ( New Window )
Reminds me a lot of the love for Sean Weatherspoon, although no one is suggesting that Floyd could play the MIKE, and quite a few thought Spoon could.
Although he wouldn't be my first choice at #10 - my feelings on that subject are pretty well known - I wouldn't even think about throwing my remote. I'll root hard for the kid and keep my fingers crossed that he's everything his supporters say he is. God knows we need linebackers.
I am so back n forth on the Giants picking him, mostly because I see Manny Lawson. I see a guy in no man's land that got shut down by the Vandy RT. I see a guy who couldn't get through two workouts and might be an injury risk. I see a player who despite being repped as being strong in coverage, doesn't seem to make plays on the ball. I see a guy with virtually no college numbers to speak of. I see a lot of risk when we could have a slam dunk on the OL or at WR and keep building piece by piece. I just don't see this guy as being a cross between Julian Peterson and DeMarcus Ware like many have suggested.
I was back and forth too after watching the Vandy tape. But, look again. He has other tape where the speed and dexterity comes to fruition with numbers and plays. At first, during this UG vs Clemson highlights I had the same feeling (this guy has the tools he just doesn't follow through. By the third quarter, I felt like it was like those games where Strahan struggled at first but by the fourth quarter he has 2 sacks and the opponents' offensive line has no juice left. I'm most impressed by his lack of fatigue in combination with his athleticism. He's got a motor. Floyd vs. Clemson - ( New Window )
Let's see how things play out the next 2 weeks or so to see how the 1-9 start shaping up with, if any, moves.
http://boards.giants.com/showthread.php?71436-Breaking-Insider-Information!!!
"- Hargreaves and Floyd are the targets. Hargreaves is the higher rated prospect but he told me either of the two will make them happy. They like Floyd's versatility a lot. Spags wants him blitzing from every angle. Plus the ability of Him, Kennard, and Thomas to play multiple LB spots gives them flexibility."
I don't think Hargreaves makes it to 10 so Floyd will be the pick
Basically we aren't drafting a player with the expectation of his being a superstar because when he's done with his rookie contract he'll be 29. So the people that say we shouldn't draft a RT or OG or RB or a #2 WR at 10. But drafting a player for one contract is totally cool?
Basically we aren't drafting a player with the expectation of his being a superstar because when he's done with his rookie contract he'll be 29. So the people that say we shouldn't draft a RT or OG or RB or a #2 WR at 10. But drafting a player for one contract is totally cool?
They're going all-in for the final years of Eli Manning's career
He’s not a “low floor” “high ceiling” player. More like an “average floor” “high ceiling” player. But his real potential to be average makes him too risky for the Giants.
But I think you roll the dice. This kid has a high ceiling and given his speed and cover ability he will not be a total bust.
http://boards.giants.com/showthread.php?71436-Breaking-Insider-Information!!!
"- Hargreaves and Floyd are the targets. Hargreaves is the higher rated prospect but he told me either of the two will make them happy. They like Floyd's versatility a lot. Spags wants him blitzing from every angle. Plus the ability of Him, Kennard, and Thomas to play multiple LB spots gives them flexibility."
I don't think Hargreaves makes it to 10 so Floyd will be the pick
I'm selling hargreaves as the or a target.
He isn't the type of prospect that reese and Ross have targeted in the past, and he isnt best suited as a man coverage corner on the outside. He's better in a zone scheme where his size and athleticism are better utilized.
Reese and Ross have always tended drafted physically large players at their position and hargreaves is a serious departure from that philosophy.
He’s not a “low floor” “high ceiling” player. More like an “average floor” “high ceiling” player. But his real potential to be average makes him too risky for the Giants.
Acid: I think those are valid points but Giants signed a 3-4 NT and if they now take a 3-4 LB (which is what Floyd is), you have to wonder if they are planning to go more hybrid on defense.
But I think you roll the dice. This kid has a high ceiling and given his speed and cover ability he will not be a total bust.
How do you know he has the measurable? He got hurt during the Combine and quit his workout.
But I think you roll the dice. This kid has a high ceiling and given his speed and cover ability he will not be a total bust.
Just what you want to hear about the tenth pick of the draft: He may not be a total bust.
Basically we aren't drafting a player with the expectation of his being a superstar because when he's done with his rookie contract he'll be 29. So the people that say we shouldn't draft a RT or OG or RB or a #2 WR at 10. But drafting a player for one contract is totally cool?
Hmm good point. Who you liking Chop? I won't be sad with Hargreaves for sure. Or Zeke Elliot. Or Tunsil. I'm even OK with Stanley.... lol
He had a 4.60 40, 38.5 inch vertical, 10'7 broad jump, 7.18 3 cone & 4.32 short shuttle. Had food poisoning for the last two so I'm sure they'd be better if he wasn't sick.
Check out his highlights.
Link - ( New Window )
He will play SAM on 1st/2nd downs, and move to the line on pass-rush situations.
On the other hand, Hargreaves would be an excellent pick for either CB or FS
It's because we all love J.T. Thomas and would hate to see him lose his starting gig.
Ba dump bump.
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and use nothing but foul language for at least an hour. Kind of like how I reacted to the JPP pick, but at least he had the size to play DE. I dont think the Giants are going to take Floyd because Reese was at UGA's pro day, but if they do, I will be worried. For real.
He will play SAM on 1st/2nd downs, and move to the line on pass-rush situations.
And that is where he will fail at his position. Playing at the POA is NOT his strong suit. If anywhere he should play WILL.
Big Rick in FL : 8:47 pm : link : reply
But don't let facts get in the way of your argument.
He had a 4.60 40, 38.5 inch vertical, 10'7 broad jump, 7.18 3 cone & 4.32 short shuttle. Had food poisoning for the last two so I'm sure they'd be better if he wasn't sick.
Lol, if you're going to come off as swarmy and condescending, maybe you should use a better argument. Fact is, if food poisoning really hampered his ability at the workout, you would like see him passing out or throwing up on the field. Or he should've complained about symptoms and asked to reschedule for another workout. That screams lack of toughness to me.
Fact is, he had 17 career sacks in 3 years (37 games). He also had zero interceptions and four passes defensed in 3 years. That doesn't sound like a LB with coverage ability to me.
Fact is, he will be 24 at the start of the season. How much more can he learn? How much more bulk can he add to the frame?
Fact is, your "facts" are workout numbers. His production nor his game does not match those numbers.
So as you can see, I've let tons of facts get in the way of me falling in love with Floyd as a top ten pick. And yet you come to me with how high he jumps and how fast he runs?
Good one Rick!
As I have argued in other threads it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that the Giants' #1 priority heading into the off-season was to jump-start the pass rush. And my sense looking at the draft is that the Giants' primary goal at the draft is to get another edge rusher. What makes floyd such an intriguing prospect for the giants is that a) he is potentially the best pure edge rushing prospect in this draft and b) that he is fast enough, quick enough and athletic enough that he can play WLB meaning that if he plays to his potential (and that is always the big IF) you get to have him on the field every down. Contrast that with guys like Lawson, Ogbah and Rankins who barring an injury will only be situational types in 2016. (Same for Hargreaves by the way who would only be their nickle corner.
My guess is that if the Giants did draft Floyd (and that of course is far from a given) Spags marching orders would be to find ways to get Floyd freed up so he could make plays in the backfield. If it was me I'd be lining him up on the line of scrimmage on the weakside in what would be almost a 5-2 type look.
and whoever they ultimately take my guess is that the first and foremost the Giants head into this draft hoping to add an impact playmaker or two and they'll worry about sorting out the positional niceties later.
Although he wouldn't be my first choice at #10 - my feelings on that subject are pretty well known - I wouldn't even think about throwing my remote. I'll root hard for the kid and keep my fingers crossed that he's everything his supporters say he is. God knows we need linebackers.
Although he wouldn't be my first choice at #10 - my feelings on that subject are pretty well known - I wouldn't even think about throwing my remote. I'll root hard for the kid and keep my fingers crossed that he's everything his supporters say he is. God knows we need linebackers.
I am so back n forth on the Giants picking him, mostly because I see Manny Lawson. I see a guy in no man's land that got shut down by the Vandy RT. I see a guy who couldn't get through two workouts and might be an injury risk. I see a player who despite being repped as being strong in coverage, doesn't seem to make plays on the ball. I see a guy with virtually no college numbers to speak of. I see a lot of risk when we could have a slam dunk on the OL or at WR and keep building piece by piece. I just don't see this guy as being a cross between Julian Peterson and DeMarcus Ware like many have suggested.
you aint running around if that is going on..
I remember watching Weathersoon at the Senior Bowl (I think) - he was amazing, and being very disappointed when the Giants didn't pick him.
Turns out the guy was just too fragile to be playing NFL linebacker. Floyd, at 6'6", 240 is a stick man.
If I drafted him, I'd be very tempted to make him a safety (rather than trying to beef him up and slow him down)
I remember watching Weathersoon at the Senior Bowl (I think) - he was amazing, and being very disappointed when the Giants didn't pick him.
Turns out the guy was just too fragile to be playing NFL linebacker. Floyd, at 6'6", 240 is a stick man.
If I drafted him, I'd be very tempted to make him a safety (rather than trying to beef him up and slow him down)
Floyd is 248 and just as fast..
Demarcus Ware was 6'4 and 250 when drafted..
Jason Taylor 6'6 around 244 in original draft profile..
NOW clearly not saying that Floyd is either of these players or will be.. but his size is around the same area...
First off, that was Vandy. I knew I used it as an example, but I don't even think they have a player that figures to be drafted in the first three round on their entire team. I watched the draft breakdown of that and while he was able to run down the field with receivers, he also had zero ball skills. He was in the wash every running play.
Despite what people here were saying, I actually thought he looked decent against Bama. But that also shows a lot of inconsistency
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Floyd did not get shut down by any means vs Vandy. That's crazy. I believe he had 3 pressures, 1 sack, covered a tightend man to man, and also covered a slot wr on a 9 route....all in the first 7 minutes of that game on draftbreakdown.com.
First off, that was Vandy. I knew I used it as an example, but I don't even think they have a player that figures to be drafted in the first three round on their entire team. I watched the draft breakdown of that and while he was able to run down the field with receivers, he also had zero ball skills. He was in the wash every running play.
Despite what people here were saying, I actually thought he looked decent against Bama. But that also shows a lot of inconsistency
My question is how much of that is on the coaches who kept moving him around.. playing right side.. left side.. on the line.. as a MLB..
How much did that contribute to his inconsistency?
did that hamper his development and can he develop further..
Taylor was a freak. I never understood how held up at DE going against men that were sometimes 100 pounds heavier than him.
Taylor was a freak. I never understood how held up at DE going against men that were sometimes 100 pounds heavier than him.
I think he would be fine as a WILL linebacker.. not so sure at the SAM.. but its all about how the Giants would use him.. but I dont have an Anita Marks/Myles Jack crush on FLoyd..
I just try to learn as much about who the Giants MIGHT pick as possible.
You cannot dispute the results of his combine performance, they were with the added wieght. There isn't another prospect which offers Floyd's diverse measurables and athletic attributes. So if you have another preference, thats okay, you are entitled to free will and choice. Just stop with the prejudice analysis because it isn't what you want.
Some people have a preference for Offense passing or running. but if you are a true Giants fan you know and bleed DEFENSE! The very fact that we have recently endured such poor representation of it should make us hunger for its restoration. Also, if we know that our franchise has a specific criteria as to measurables of preference, why place expectations on a prospect that doesn't meet them.
Giants fans are noted for their knowledge of the game, so lets demonstrate those traits in our analysis and projections. Just because we favor a player, does not make for a possibility unless they meet the criteria of the personnel selecting. This offseason has been specifically about restoring the Defense, the strength of this draft is Defense, so why are so many fixated on the Offense.
Hargreave at 5'10" does not meet the criteria associated with Giants brain truat for a CB. Stanley is not dynamic enough, Lee 6'0" does not meet the criteria as far as measurables. As some have said, we need to wait and see if there is any movement of draft choices at the top, but if Forrest or Jack don't fall to 10, I fully expect Floyd to be the choice.
For those who will throw the remote at the choice, well you can just buy a new one and enjoy the rebirth of the Giants LB corps. What a welcome sight that will be!!
I hope a team takes him in front of us so Reese doesn't have a chance to make that mistake.
If I drafted him, I'd be very tempted to make him a safety (rather than trying to beef him up and slow him down)
He certainly might be a hybrid LB/S rather than a hybrid LB/DE. Crazy height for a safety while his POA at LB isn't too inspiring on the film.
you aint running around if that is going on..
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ive had bad food poisoning.. fever, chills, and the runs..
you aint running around if that is going on..
I think they don't believe he had food poisoning.
Also, it is so hard to get foood poisoning. And knowing that you have the biggest workout of yofr career the next day, why would you eat anything questionable?
I've had it twice, both times were when I ordered out.
And.. as others have mentioned, he can run with TE's. Its a rare combination to be that useful on 3 downs. I watch the tape and feel on third down he contributes tomorrow. I watch the tape and feel that he's not going to hurt us on first and second down.
And.. as others have mentioned, he can run with TE's. Its a rare combination to be that useful on 3 downs. I watch the tape and feel on third down he contributes tomorrow. I watch the tape and feel that he's not going to hurt us on first and second down.
And neither of them had any kind of college production to warrant getting taken in the top ten. At least Manny got taken at 22.
Marty, to each his own, but Floyd is a guy I like more and more as I watched more tape of his. The comparison to Demarcus Ware is valid at least insofar as Floyd made a lot of college OTs grab, pull, rope him around the neck as he turned the corner on them pass rushing. And his cut step to the inside is murder when an OT opens that up to him.
Undoubtedly the Giants' interest in him is real.
When at OLB there was a radical change, when rushing he got into the OT quickly and was held alot, but the pressure was continuous. When he broke off into coverage he was always locked inot his man. There was no free roaming even on comeback routes. At OLB he played downhill, was disruptive against bith the run and pass. Now is he a finished product no, would the offseason conditioning program be helpful absolutely.
What no amount of coaching can provide is the natural athleticism Floyd is blessed with. Many have stated that Floyd would not fit in a Spagnoulo Defense, to me that is just memory lapse. It was Spags who changed Kiwanuka into the hybrid LB to get the pass rush ability on the field. With Floyd their would be no adaptation because he is an OLB. So what was originally invisioned will now be manifest with the intended impact and disruption.
Also some have talked about his level of competition, he played in the SEC. Now why he wasn't coached into added wieght? As for why the combine results are so important? The showed all that with the added wieght there was no loss in explosiveness. 39" vertical and 10.6 broad jump at 246 lbs, for an athlete who is 6'6" is remarkable. If you want to look at tape that would depict the quickness of Floyds first steps in the pass rush look at OSi's game film.
Floyd is a true OLB, who will give the Giants Defense something that has been lacking since Boley left, a weapon to eliminate the TE free riegn through our Defense.
You asked how do we know he has the measureables. I showed you how we know.
As I have argued in other threads it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that the Giants' #1 priority heading into the off-season was to jump-start the pass rush. And my sense looking at the draft is that the Giants' primary goal at the draft is to get another edge rusher. What makes floyd such an intriguing prospect for the giants is that a) he is potentially the best pure edge rushing prospect in this draft and b) that he is fast enough, quick enough and athletic enough that he can play WLB meaning that if he plays to his potential (and that is always the big IF) you get to have him on the field every down. Contrast that with guys like Lawson, Ogbah and Rankins who barring an injury will only be situational types in 2016. (Same for Hargreaves by the way who would only be their nickle corner.
My guess is that if the Giants did draft Floyd (and that of course is far from a given) Spags marching orders would be to find ways to get Floyd freed up so he could make plays in the backfield. If it was me I'd be lining him up on the line of scrimmage on the weakside in what would be almost a 5-2 type look.
and whoever they ultimately take my guess is that the first and foremost the Giants head into this draft hoping to add an impact playmaker or two and they'll worry about sorting out the positional niceties later.
Great post Colin!
When at OLB there was a radical change, when rushing he got into the OT quickly and was held alot, but the pressure was continuous. When he broke off into coverage he was always locked inot his man. There was no free roaming even on comeback routes. At OLB he played downhill, was disruptive against bith the run and pass. Now is he a finished product no, would the offseason conditioning program be helpful absolutely.
What no amount of coaching can provide is the natural athleticism Floyd is blessed with. Many have stated that Floyd would not fit in a Spagnoulo Defense, to me that is just memory lapse. It was Spags who changed Kiwanuka into the hybrid LB to get the pass rush ability on the field. With Floyd their would be no adaptation because he is an OLB. So what was originally invisioned will now be manifest with the intended impact and disruption.
Also some have talked about his level of competition, he played in the SEC. Now why he wasn't coached into added wieght? As for why the combine results are so important? The showed all that with the added wieght there was no loss in explosiveness. 39" vertical and 10.6 broad jump at 246 lbs, for an athlete who is 6'6" is remarkable. If you want to look at tape that would depict the quickness of Floyds first steps in the pass rush look at OSi's game film.
Floyd is a true OLB, who will give the Giants Defense something that has been lacking since Boley left, a weapon to eliminate the TE free riegn through our Defense.
Great post
He's a massive bust in the NFL.
Or are they both going to play OLB and the Giants can find 2 more DEs who can play a 3-4?
Any other brilliant options?
Ogbah is a beast vs the run, easily the best 'two-way DE in this class. So he would stay on the field. Now his pass rush arsenal needs development but if the Giants don't believe in his ability to apply pressure he won't be the pick anyway.
Same goes for Hargeaves. He's a good and willing tackler. Hell nickel CB is almost a full time position in the NFL these days anyway. And DRC isn't getting any younger. Drafting him(if he's even available) pays huge dividends as he'll be the starting CB by year three at worst.
Hell noone even knows what position Floyd might play in our scheme. So to predict him as an every down starter is a reach right out of the gate. I see no advantage in attempting to extrapolate now who has the most immediate contribution as a starter. Frankly it's a pointless exercise.
Floyd has a much better chance of beating out JT Thomas as the WILL. I believe that was the point he was making.
Ultimately I think they have to go OL, they can't go into the season with Newhouse at RT. I think they are really targeting stanley/Conklin there.
I know the size measurables are not great, but with a month to go, wouldn't be surprised to start seeing more love for Darron Lee.
Lastly, I'm not so sure he would be asked to cover TEs all that much, as his value is really as a pass rusher. He could be used more as the Broncos used Von Miller too.
Although I don't think there's a chance we take any of those guys at 10.
At DE JPP is on a one year deal that noone can predict the results of on the field or contract wise for the future. DE is definitely a long term wise investment in this draft.
DRC is 30 and probably has this year guaranteed as a starter then all bets are off and may the best man win the job. While at the same time slot CB is essentially a starting position in today's NFL. PT would not be a concern if hargeaves is the pick.
Sounds like you have a woody for Floyd and that's fine but you logic to prioritizing him over a DE or Cb selection doesn't hold water for me.
I remember when Jamie Collins came out people said he didn't have a position. Well maybe not, but Bill got him on the field & he is a complete fucking animal.
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I noticed that when at ILB his quickness got him caught up in the soup. I noticed that a ILB he was not coached in how to stick the shoulder under the blockers pads to maintain outside leverage. To tell you the truth he needs alot of work to be successful as an ILB.
When at OLB there was a radical change, when rushing he got into the OT quickly and was held alot, but the pressure was continuous. When he broke off into coverage he was always locked inot his man. There was no free roaming even on comeback routes. At OLB he played downhill, was disruptive against bith the run and pass. Now is he a finished product no, would the offseason conditioning program be helpful absolutely.
What no amount of coaching can provide is the natural athleticism Floyd is blessed with. Many have stated that Floyd would not fit in a Spagnoulo Defense, to me that is just memory lapse. It was Spags who changed Kiwanuka into the hybrid LB to get the pass rush ability on the field. With Floyd their would be no adaptation because he is an OLB. So what was originally invisioned will now be manifest with the intended impact and disruption.
Also some have talked about his level of competition, he played in the SEC. Now why he wasn't coached into added wieght? As for why the combine results are so important? The showed all that with the added wieght there was no loss in explosiveness. 39" vertical and 10.6 broad jump at 246 lbs, for an athlete who is 6'6" is remarkable. If you want to look at tape that would depict the quickness of Floyds first steps in the pass rush look at OSi's game film.
Floyd is a true OLB, who will give the Giants Defense something that has been lacking since Boley left, a weapon to eliminate the TE free riegn through our Defense.
Great post
Agreed. Great post. But we better hope he can play the WILL, and cover all those TEs that have been killing us for years. The Giants probably don’t envision him as a standard 4-3 DE, except on pass rushing situations.
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In comment 12885862 blueblood said:
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ive had bad food poisoning.. fever, chills, and the runs..
you aint running around if that is going on..
I think they don't believe he had food poisoning.
Also, it is so hard to get foood poisoning. And knowing that you have the biggest workout of yofr career the next day, why would you eat anything questionable?
I've had it twice, both times were when I ordered out.
1-food poisoning is common
2-food poisoning is often undisguised
3-identifying the source is most often not possible
4-every meal you eat is "questionable" since often the bacteria comes from your own hands
My problems with Floyd are he looks soft, quit twice on workouts, played at a stick thin weight and then jumped 20 pounds after the season. He had never ever played at his workout weight. He also never benched once for scouts. There are important questions on why the above happened.
I also worry that he isn't a 3 down player. Just because he can cover and rush the passer while being tall and insanely fast doesn't change the fact he often tackles weak and scouting profiles mention him struggling with blocks when teams run at him.
Hopefully he can work on this. Hopefully behind Vernon, JPP, Hankins, and Harrison he and Robinson would be protected but if he can't hold up at the point of attack and tackle well he could be a liability on 1st and 2nd downs when teams run the ball. He absolutely will play in the NFL and have success, but his floor is a 3rd down specialist IMO.
Sorry
If you could get Ramsey or one of the elite prospects then keep #10 pick - otherwise trade it - if you can drop no more than 5-10 spots.
This isn't a lock top ten player. He's more of a fringe tease that carries significant risks. Caveat emptor...let the buyer beware. I'd pass at #10.
LDE - Jason Pierre-Paul
LDT - Damon Harrison
RDT - Johnathan Hankins
RDE - Olivier Vernon
OLB - Leonard Floyd
MLB - Devon Kennard
OLB/nickel CB - Landon Collins
LCB - Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
RCB - Janoris Jenkins
FS - Bennett Jackson
SS - Nat Berhe
Spags made an interesting comment a few days ago - the moves up front will help the back 7. In the above personnel grouping, even though they have 5 DBs on the field and their base MIKE (Brinkley) off, the front 4 can stop the run. This allows them to to play coverage behind the front 4 or send Floyd and Collins on the blitz. That is a lot of athletes to worry about.
A QB looking to unload quickly with DRC and Janoris Jenkins at CB is asking 4 trouble.
Article goes on to speculate he ate to much for breakfast in order to improve weigh-in. Also, didn't seem to understand importance of completing work out.
Anyone know if NYG have scheduled private workout?
Floyd misses opportunity to wow NFL scouts. Now needs to impress in private workouts. - ( New Window )
Oh, and the quick weight gain of 20 pounds? It can only be from 1 thing.
The mail concern I have is with his shoulder. He didn't bench at the combine or at the pro day. I hope NYG has a private workout for him and gives him a physical.
Otherwise, he is a perfect weapon to add to the front 7.
Link
Agree, whether he is good at it in NFL is another matter.
Quote:
Reminds me a lot of the love for Sean Weatherspoon, although no one is suggesting that Floyd could play the MIKE, and quite a few thought Spoon could.
Although he wouldn't be my first choice at #10 - my feelings on that subject are pretty well known - I wouldn't even think about throwing my remote. I'll root hard for the kid and keep my fingers crossed that he's everything his supporters say he is. God knows we need linebackers.
I am so back n forth on the Giants picking him, mostly because I see Manny Lawson. I see a guy in no man's land that got shut down by the Vandy RT. I see a guy who couldn't get through two workouts and might be an injury risk. I see a player who despite being repped as being strong in coverage, doesn't seem to make plays on the ball. I see a guy with virtually no college numbers to speak of. I see a lot of risk when we could have a slam dunk on the OL or at WR and keep building piece by piece. I just don't see this guy as being a cross between Julian Peterson and DeMarcus Ware like many have suggested.
I was back and forth too after watching the Vandy tape. But, look again. He has other tape where the speed and dexterity comes to fruition with numbers and plays. At first, during this UG vs Clemson highlights I had the same feeling (this guy has the tools he just doesn't follow through. By the third quarter, I felt like it was like those games where Strahan struggled at first but by the fourth quarter he has 2 sacks and the opponents' offensive line has no juice left. I'm most impressed by his lack of fatigue in combination with his athleticism. He's got a motor.
Floyd vs. Clemson - ( New Window )
Quote:
Reminds me a lot of the love for Sean Weatherspoon, although no one is suggesting that Floyd could play the MIKE, and quite a few thought Spoon could.
Although he wouldn't be my first choice at #10 - my feelings on that subject are pretty well known - I wouldn't even think about throwing my remote. I'll root hard for the kid and keep my fingers crossed that he's everything his supporters say he is. God knows we need linebackers.
I am so back n forth on the Giants picking him, mostly because I see Manny Lawson. I see a guy in no man's land that got shut down by the Vandy RT. I see a guy who couldn't get through two workouts and might be an injury risk. I see a player who despite being repped as being strong in coverage, doesn't seem to make plays on the ball. I see a guy with virtually no college numbers to speak of. I see a lot of risk when we could have a slam dunk on the OL or at WR and keep building piece by piece. I just don't see this guy as being a cross between Julian Peterson and DeMarcus Ware like many have suggested.
I was back and forth too after watching the Vandy tape. But, look again. He has other tape where the speed and dexterity comes to fruition with numbers and plays. At first, during this UG vs Clemson highlights I had the same feeling (this guy has the tools he just doesn't follow through. By the third quarter, I felt like it was like those games where Strahan struggled at first but by the fourth quarter he has 2 sacks and the opponents' offensive line has no juice left. I'm most impressed by his lack of fatigue in combination with his athleticism. He's got a motor.
Floyd vs. Clemson - ( New Window )