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Asshat info from Giants message board

muhajir : 4/3/2016 2:54 am
Not sure of the posters credibility but interesting tidbits nonetheless.


"Breaking Insider Information!!!
I have a buddy in the Giants FO. Every once in a while he'll drop me some knowledge of what's going on on the inside of the Giants Organization. Here is what I was able to get from him on the draft.

- Ramsey is the #1 guy on their board by far. They expect him yo go in the first 3 picks. However if he makes it to 3 the Giants will be on the phone making sure San Diego is where he is going. If SD doesn't plan in drafting him the Giants will try to trade up and get him to play S and keep him out of the Cowboys hands.

- Hargreaves and Floyd are the targets. Hargreaves is the higher rated prospect but he told me either of the two will make them happy. They like Floyd's versatility a lot. Spags wants him blitzing from every angle. Plus the ability of Him, Kennard, and Thomas to play multiple LB spots gives them flexibility.

- They a very confident that their 2nd round pick will be a good one. They are very high on a number of guys. They want to develop one of their younflg safties but they do love both Karl Joseph and Vonn Bell. They love bells coverage ability while they like what Joseph does both in the run and pass game. They also are EXPLORING Hunter Henry the TE from Arkansas. He isn't the top guy but they won't be mad if he is the best guy on the board by then.

- There will be an offensive lineman drafted within the first 3 rounds. They like tackle Taylor Decker a lot but think he can be had in the 2nd. Another guy they like is Cody Whitehair. They don't believe he can't play RT.

- On Reggie Ragland - "We think he can definitely play and it makes sense with Landon but at the same time he is much like Jasper and we've been trying to add a new dimension with our LB core. We want faster, quicker, more agile guys. That's not to say we WONT draft him. You never know how the board is gonna fall."

- The Giants have been keeping an eye on RBs Alex Collins, Kenyan Drake, and Keith Marshall. They think Alex can be that solid back that takes the load while they like the explosive ability of both Drake and Marshall and that they have low mileage on them

- They also aren't opposed to adding another guy on the interior of the D-line. "There is so much talent there. We can get a good guy to solidify that middle. We've gone lot of bodies there as is though." Andrew Billings is a guy they love because of his age and upside. Being just 20 there isn't a rush for him to be immediately on the field and he can eventually replace Hankins. They see Kenny Clark of UCLA as a guy that reminds them of Linval Joseph and love the ability of Vernon Butler and Maliek Collins to penetrate as 3ts. "We spent a lot on Harrison. A lot. But we feel good about it. He seems enthusiastic."

- On Nkemdiche: "Man. If he's there in the 2nd. We will be having a lot of Internal discussions."

- on WRs the only name that really came up were Sterling Shepard, Leonte Carroo, and Braxton Miller."

Link - ( New Window )
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Hargreaves makes a lot of sense  
dpinzow : 4/3/2016 12:03 pm : link
due to versatility

Great slot corner now, likely a #1 outside corner after DRC leaves, possibly a FS too

Floyd still makes no sense and Reese is falling back into the bad habit of considering combine warriors over football players
So this  
muhajir : 4/3/2016 12:22 pm : link
Is what it feels like to be an asshat. Oh the powerrrrrrr. Jk
Hitdog  
DCPollaro : 4/3/2016 12:59 pm : link
Do you think the scouting staff and structure (ross) stays in place after the draft? If this is real could it be they know they aren't sticking around and have loose lips
I have a question for all who covet Hargreave  
Makogman : 4/3/2016 1:07 pm : link
Who was the last 1st rd CB drafted by the Giants under 5'11"? Now once you answer that question, name the outstanding qualities and skill set that would make the FO go against their modus operandi. Hargreave is not that much better a prospect than say Alexander or Burns, Apple is a PI waiting to happen, to me it is just about publicity and school affiliation. Schools like Ohio St., Alabama, Florida, Florida State, are schools with long winning traditions whose players at times don't measure up to the hype.

To those who say that Floyd is just a work out warrior, his pass rushing skills and cover ability are aguablythe best in the draft among LB. His first 2 steps in his pass rush is faster than any prospect in this years draft. It is okay not to like him as a player but to misrepresent his ability only limits your credibility.
Would trade up for Bosa if he got past a certain point  
ghost718 : 4/3/2016 1:20 pm : link
We are in win now mode and it makes sense.

But some of this stuff sounds made up,who cares if the Cowboys get Ramsey.
Hargreaves  
est1986 : 4/3/2016 1:31 pm : link
Decker
Sheppard

Fills three holes right away. Grab Clady from Denver and then change Decker for teammate Von Bell and that's four holes fixed right away.
How exactly do you see a win-now mode?  
UberAlias : 4/3/2016 1:33 pm : link
No one they signed is old and they passed on a lot of older players who could have helped them in short term.

Here is what McAdoo has said: "We need to do what's in the best long-term interest of the New York Giants and find some right pieces to add to the mix."

Basically what they have said and done does not support win-now. It supports building something lasting.

McAdoo can say what he wants  
ghost718 : 4/3/2016 1:42 pm : link
Eli Manning is 35 years old,and you don't go on big time spending spree's unless you have to.If you want to call that a plan,be my guest.
I can't see them trading up for anyone  
Anakim : 4/3/2016 2:36 pm : link
And trading up from 10 to 3 would be too costly and I wouldn't trade a first rounder next year. It's simply too much. This team has so many holes that we need as many draft picks as we can get.

Realistically, VH3, Ronnie Stanley or Zeke Elliott at #10 would make me extremely happy. Anyone else and I'd be pretty bummed out. If either Wentz or Goff fall to #10, I would explore a trade down. A QB-needy team might pay a hefty price in order to leapfrog the Bears and draft their future franchise QB.
Hargreaves  
BigBlueCane : 4/3/2016 2:42 pm : link
is from Florida not FSU.
RE: McAdoo can say what he wants  
UberAlias : 4/3/2016 2:47 pm : link
In comment 12886335 ghost718 said:
Quote:
Eli Manning is 35 years old,and you don't go on big time spending spree's unless you have to.If you want to call that a plan,be my guest.


Um, they had money to spend and still have a lot left. If it was win now they could have gone aggressively after several other players, but didn't.

None of the players they signed are win now players. They signed young players with upside. There were lots of players available at positions of need that fit the win now mold, but none of them were signed to contracts. The facts don't support your statement.
RE: McAdoo can say what he wants  
Bill L : 4/3/2016 2:48 pm : link
In comment 12886335 ghost718 said:
Quote:
Eli Manning is 35 years old,and you don't go on big time spending spree's unless you have to.If you want to call that a plan,be my guest.
this is very much true. They need to keep the near term in as much of their thoughts as the long-term. They can build and should build for the future all they want, but the day Eli retires they are picking top 5 for half a decade.
If it was win now they wopuld have signed an OT  
UberAlias : 4/3/2016 2:53 pm : link
A WR and a safety. Those are big positions of need and they have the cap space and there were players available but they were older. They poked around but did not open the pocket book and sign anyone to contracts. They could have thrown money at those guys, but didn't.

1) they did not empty their wallet. Still have space left
2) signed no older players even though there were players available in positions of need who could have helped.

Sorry, this doesn't support the win now argument, no matter how much we may believe so.
RE: If it was win now they wopuld have signed an OT  
Anakim : 4/3/2016 2:55 pm : link
In comment 12886398 UberAlias said:
Quote:
A WR and a safety. Those are big positions of need and they have the cap space and there were players available but they were older. They poked around but did not open the pocket book and sign anyone to contracts. They could have thrown money at those guys, but didn't.

1) they did not empty their wallet. Still have space left
2) signed no older players even though there were players available in positions of need who could have helped.

Sorry, this doesn't support the win now argument, no matter how much we may believe so.


I'd like to think it shows incompetence :)
A new coach is looking to build something lasting  
UberAlias : 4/3/2016 2:57 pm : link
That seems the obvious approach unless you expect Eli to fall apart in a year.
Blowing all available cap space  
UberAlias : 4/3/2016 3:00 pm : link
On aging players in effort to win now when you are a first year HC on a team that is more than a year away, THAT would be incompetent.

Thankfully they have more sense than some here.
RE: Blowing all available cap space  
Anakim : 4/3/2016 3:05 pm : link
In comment 12886405 UberAlias said:
Quote:
On aging players in effort to win now when you are a first year HC on a team that is more than a year away, THAT would be incompetent.

Thankfully they have more sense than some here.


Huh? How would "blowing" a few million (which we have) on short-term deals on aging BUT ABLE (and MUCH better than what we have now) players be incompetent? If anything, that's the kind of things we should be exploring.

And we're not a year away. We're in the NFC Least. Did you see how the division played last year? The fucking Washington franchise won the division last year and they stunk to high heavens. If we signed Reggie Nelson and Anquan Boldin to one or two year deals, it would instantly upgrade the talent on this team, while filling gaping holes and would be extremely low-risk, high-reward signings. Incompetent is going forward with Berhe, Jackson and Thompson, who are all injury-prone, extremely inexperienced and, to be frank, not very good to begin with.
The Giants aren't the only team  
UConn4523 : 4/3/2016 3:22 pm : link
Not signing these guys.
RE: The Giants aren't the only team  
Anakim : 4/3/2016 3:23 pm : link
In comment 12886411 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
Not signing these guys.


No shit. And I really don't know why and frankly, neither does anyone else on here. It could be age. It could be money. It could how many years. it could be play. None of us know because nothing has been reported about it. We can only speculate.
It doesn't matter why  
UConn4523 : 4/3/2016 3:27 pm : link
The point is there's glaring reasons why they aren't on a team whether it be their own decision to wait our teams not wanting to depend on their age/health. Either way, it's impossible to argue us just getting them and everything being fixed, even just this upcoming season.
RE: RE: McAdoo can say what he wants  
ghost718 : 4/3/2016 3:31 pm : link
In comment 12886392 UberAlias said:
Quote:
Um, they had money to spend and still have a lot left. If it was win now they could have gone aggressively after several other players, but didn't.

None of the players they signed are win now players. They signed young players with upside. There were lots of players available at positions of need that fit the win now mold, but none of them were signed to contracts. The facts don't support your statement.


Who says in order for it to qualify as a win now situation,we have to spend every penny.Signing 4 or 5 of the top free agents to ridiculous money isn't enough? I don't agree with that.




RE: It doesn't matter why  
Anakim : 4/3/2016 4:39 pm : link
In comment 12886416 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
The point is there's glaring reasons why they aren't on a team whether it be their own decision to wait our teams not wanting to depend on their age/health. Either way, it's impossible to argue us just getting them and everything being fixed, even just this upcoming season.


Of course it is but they are solutions to problems (even if they are just stopgaps). I'd rather have an old player play extremely well for one or two years than a crappy neophyte.
They want the best deal possible  
AP in Halfmoon : 4/3/2016 4:56 pm : link
There's no rush to sign. They'll drop their price and accept the best offer at some point. It's the same every off season
RE: RE: It doesn't matter why  
mrvax : 4/3/2016 5:12 pm : link
In comment 12886461 Anakim said:
Quote:


Of course it is but they are solutions to problems (even if they are just stopgaps). I'd rather have an old player play extremely well for one or two years than a crappy neophyte.


I'm guessing the Giants want to wait until after the draft to fill those final holes, maybe post June 1st. Better deals then also. They will fill those holes, just be patient.
RE: RE: RE: It doesn't matter why  
Anakim : 4/3/2016 5:57 pm : link
In comment 12886476 mrvax said:
Quote:
In comment 12886461 Anakim said:


Quote:




Of course it is but they are solutions to problems (even if they are just stopgaps). I'd rather have an old player play extremely well for one or two years than a crappy neophyte.



I'm guessing the Giants want to wait until after the draft to fill those final holes, maybe post June 1st. Better deals then also. They will fill those holes, just be patient.


Better deals but the talent might not be there. I don't know what's going on with Reggie Nelson but I doubt someone shakes loose that's better than him or maybe Nelson signs somewhere before the draft.
Reese  
muhajir : 4/3/2016 6:32 pm : link
Wants the coaches to play the young guys hes drafted so he leaves the coaches no choice by not giving them a veteran option.
RE: Reese  
mrvax : 4/3/2016 6:56 pm : link
In comment 12886541 muhajir said:
Quote:
Wants the coaches to play the young guys hes drafted so he leaves the coaches no choice by not giving them a veteran option.


Wow. Very strong claim. We'll have to see how it shakes out. Those draftees better be good.
RE: Asshat Info is Fun...  
andrew_nyg : 4/4/2016 8:44 am : link
In comment 12886013 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
But it's hard to believe. Think about it. There are likely only a small number of Giants' inner-circle employees who would know their thinking in terms of the draft. If you were one of those trusted employees would you risk your job security and also risk being exposed as a disloyal company employee who shared confidential information with a friend... especially in an age where stuff like this ends up on Twitter, Facebook and internet message boards?

McAdoo won't even share whether or not he'll be calling the plays next year, in the hopes of getting a slight advantage. Do you really think that the Giants' brain trust wouldn't lay the law down to everyone in the organization with access to their draft strategy not to share these secrets?

Sharing last-minute information on free agent signings is one thing. Sharing draft strategy three weeks before the event is quite another.

Just not buying this asshat info.


Agreed, and I'll take it a step further. Whomever is sharing this information as a FO person should be FIRED immediately, no questions asked.

Talk about giving away trade secrets.
Anakim  
UberAlias : 4/4/2016 9:14 am : link
Look, agree or not, my point is about if what they have done reflects "win now" mentality or not.

I keep hearing that the team is in win-now mode and I don't see it. If it was they would have gone more aggressively after older but capable players. The fact that they dished out the cash for young players but showed the fiscal constraint for older players is clear to me that they are not in a win now mode.

And this makes sense. A new coach is going to be focused on building a strong foundation. Of course you want to win this season, but that should not be the main objective, and what they have done thus far is consistent with that. You want to build something lasting, not short sighted and fleeting.

I imagine they will sign some veterans, most likely after the draft. But the fact that they haven't yet is clear indication that they are not in a win-now mode.
I think "win now"  
Bill L : 4/4/2016 9:19 am : link
means whatever Eli's quality timeframe is. So maybe 3-4 years? They might be trying to have guys in place for beyond that but IMO it's wasted money because they are probably looking at an extended period of lassitude post-Eli.
yeah i'm taking a pretty general liberty  
UConn4523 : 4/4/2016 9:28 am : link
with the term "win now" as well. We have a window with our franchise QB and part of that window is beyond 2016. IMO its really as simple as there is something about the current vets that's keeping all teams away right now. Why isn't Boldin a Patriot? I'd love to hear that argument, they are "win now", correct? Instead they signed a 32 year old Nate Washington. Why do that unless there's either something wrong with Boldin or his asking price is through the roof for a likely 2 year final deal?
RE: RE: RE: McAdoo can say what he wants  
UberAlias : 4/4/2016 9:35 am : link
In comment 12886418 ghost718 said:
Quote:

Who says in order for it to qualify as a win now situation,we have to spend every penny.Signing 4 or 5 of the top free agents to ridiculous money isn't enough? I don't agree with that.


Well what actions have they taken that support that they are in a win now mode? Yes, they spent a lot of money but that doesn't address the "now" component. They spent the money on young players so that does not demonstrate a short term aspect. And there were players, in positions of need, who could help them "win-now", but those players were on the down end of their careers, and for those players they did not write the checks to lock them up --even though they had the cash to do so.

So basically you have the coach saying the focus is on building for long term success and few actions to suggest otherwise despite opportunities.
RE: yeah i'm taking a pretty general liberty  
pjcas18 : 4/4/2016 9:37 am : link
In comment 12887162 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
with the term "win now" as well. We have a window with our franchise QB and part of that window is beyond 2016. IMO its really as simple as there is something about the current vets that's keeping all teams away right now. Why isn't Boldin a Patriot? I'd love to hear that argument, they are "win now", correct? Instead they signed a 32 year old Nate Washington. Why do that unless there's either something wrong with Boldin or his asking price is through the roof for a likely 2 year final deal?


The Patriots have Edelman, Amendola and Chris Hogan - all primarily slot receivers, why would they need a slot WR like Boldin?

While Nate Washington can play the slot in a pinch should they find Amendola expendable or line Hogan up outside, Washington was signed to replace LaFell outside.

The reason so many fans speculate Boldin to the Giants is because Boldin is primarily a slot receiver, should be available short-term and low $$ given his age, and the Giants struggled finding a slot WR with Cruz injured and it's such a huge part of the WCO.

Fans don't realize a lot of variables go into a signing like what the veteran player desires in his next team (location, scheme, coaching, contender), how the team views the player, the players price and playing time expectations, etc.

but why Boldin isn't a Patriot is not mysterious (to me at least).



I don't think its that black and white  
UConn4523 : 4/4/2016 9:39 am : link
the long term players we signed make our team much better right now (or should considering each player is in or about to be in their primes). We just didn't pay top dollar for a 35 year old WR and an old Safety (who may have other issues); I don't think that really defines anything other than the status of each player.
And I do not think Reese has 3 - 4 years  
pjcas18 : 4/4/2016 9:41 am : link
of 6 - 10 seasons.

the hot seat or "win-now" are relative terms, but if the on-field results don't show an improvement I think Reese has two seasons - depending on the circumstances - and then he'll be replaced.

The term win now  
UberAlias : 4/4/2016 9:49 am : link
typically means, this is our time to win, lets go for it. It is typically characterized by a team investing resources in players on the downside of their careers who have a short but meaningful window to help a team win.

The way interpret what the team has done so far is rebuilding the defensive foundation. It does not have the characteristic elements, IMO, of what I would take as signs if a win now urgency. What the team has chose not to do (namely invest heavily in aging veterans even though they had the resources as well as the need) is as telling as anything, especially in contrast to how aggressive they were in pursuing the young players.

I've said my peace on this topic.
pjcas  
UConn4523 : 4/4/2016 9:59 am : link
you are right, they don't really need Boldin, but their WR corps is a walking injury report. If Boldin is going to come so cheap and just wants to win now like many people claim, he'd be on a SB team by now. Insert whichever SB caliber team is out there and ask the same question.
Lots of semantics here  
Bill L : 4/4/2016 10:02 am : link
.
RE: pjcas  
pjcas18 : 4/4/2016 10:09 am : link
In comment 12887195 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
you are right, they don't really need Boldin, but their WR corps is a walking injury report. If Boldin is going to come so cheap and just wants to win now like many people claim, he'd be on a SB team by now. Insert whichever SB caliber team is out there and ask the same question.


Boldin has met with one team from what I know, the Redskins. Who I guess you can argue is the best NFC East team right now since they're the current "champs" and didn't really lose anyone other than Morris, but I have a hard time seeing anyone convince me the Redskins are a contender.

Not sure that narrative (the "I only want to play for a contender" narrative), even if Boldin himself said it, is reality
RE: RE: RE: RE: McAdoo can say what he wants  
ghost718 : 4/4/2016 10:10 am : link
In comment 12887167 UberAlias said:
Quote:
In comment 12886418 ghost718 said:


Quote:
Well what actions have they taken that support that they are in a win now mode? Yes, they spent a lot of money but that doesn't address the "now" component. They spent the money on young players so that does not demonstrate a short term aspect. And there were players, in positions of need, who could help them "win-now", but those players were on the down end of their careers, and for those players they did not write the checks to lock them up --even though they had the cash to do so.

So basically you have the coach saying the focus is on building for long term success and few actions to suggest otherwise despite opportunities.


Most of the top free agents from this year are young,and it would make sense to target the best if you wanted to improve the team.

They also showed interest in Mario Williams,who doesn't fit your argument.
Also the Carolina DE  
ghost718 : 4/4/2016 10:11 am : link
.
RE: Reese  
phillygiant : 4/4/2016 10:12 am : link
In comment 12886541 muhajir said:
Quote:
Wants the coaches to play the young guys hes drafted so he leaves the coaches no choice by not giving them a veteran option.


And you know this how?

Or are you making up a narrative in your mind?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: McAdoo can say what he wants  
UberAlias : 4/4/2016 10:22 am : link
In comment 12887210 ghost718 said:
Quote:
In comment 12887167 UberAlias said:


Quote:


In comment 12886418 ghost718 said:


Quote:
They also showed interest in Mario Williams,who doesn't fit your argument.


Yes, they showed interest in Williams, as they did other older prospects. But they did not sign him, or any of the others for that matter, which they could have done for deals not even close to what they dished out to the guys they signed.

There is just not the win-now urgency.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: McAdoo can say what he wants  
UberAlias : 4/4/2016 10:25 am : link
In comment 12887210 ghost718 said:
Quote:
In comment 12887167 UberAlias said:


Quote:


Most of the top free agents from this year are young,


There are older players on the market right now who can help them in positions of need. If there was this urgency to win now, why are they not showing it?
Whatever you say pal  
ghost718 : 4/4/2016 10:29 am : link
Showed interest but did not sign is not a win for you,no matter how you spin it
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: McAdoo can say what he wants  
pjcas18 : 4/4/2016 10:30 am : link
In comment 12887229 UberAlias said:
Quote:
In comment 12887210 ghost718 said:


Quote:


In comment 12887167 UberAlias said:


Quote:


In comment 12886418 ghost718 said:


Quote:
They also showed interest in Mario Williams,who doesn't fit your argument.



Yes, they showed interest in Williams, as they did other older prospects. But they did not sign him, or any of the others for that matter, which they could have done for deals not even close to what they dished out to the guys they signed.

There is just not the win-now urgency.


I know this has been dead-horse beaten already, but I don't think Win-now means build the best team you can for this year and forget the future or spend irresponsibly to fill every hole the team has.

I also don't think Reese has the authority to operate unilaterally.

Lastly, I believe the Giants feel like they signed the best DE, DT, and CB available in free agency period + JPP. Not the youngest, not the best to build a core around, but the best available free agents.

If you listen to or read any of the beat writers with how they quote Mara this is exactly what he says.

they targeted three guys and went out and got them, in some cases outbidding teams with even more cap space (like JAX), so yeah I see some urgency there.

I don't see why because they didn't sign older veteran players or act irresponsibly and spend unwisely it means they don't feel urgency to win now.


Mario Williams was never in play for the Giants.  
Klaatu : 4/4/2016 10:43 am : link
On March 6, PFT reported that he was, and then on March 8 they printed a retraction. Everything else written about Williams and the Giants was merely speculation that they might be interested in signing him, but clearly they weren't.

The Giants did host Charles Johnson - who's two years younger than Williams - but we all know how that went.
This is obviously just a bunch of BS  
Vanzetti : 4/4/2016 12:00 pm : link
He just stitched together all the various media reports and said a whole lot of nothing.

Also, the claim that he has a buddy in the Giants FO is such a cliche. Dead giveaway that he is total BS artist
RE: Whatever you say pal  
UberAlias : 4/4/2016 12:37 pm : link
In comment 12887248 ghost718 said:
Quote:
Showed interest but did not sign is not a win for you,no matter how you spin it


That is your argument? They are in win now because they supposedly looked at someone who they never actually had in?

Then threw massive $$ at someone else who plays the same position, far more than what Mario signed for.

You can think what you want. I have no idea why it would be such an unreasonable a view to you. I just don't see any evidence of win now beyond their poking around at a few guys who may be able to help, but obviously only looking for value contracts and never actually signed anybody despite a ton of available cash and needs. I'll leave it at that.
pjcas18  
UberAlias : 4/4/2016 12:54 pm : link
I'm not sure what win now means to you, to be honest. But if I was a GM and my priority was to "win-now", lets say hypothetically my boss told me if I if I didn't win now I would be fired, and I had the available cap space the Giants do and the glaring needs, you had better believe I would get/have gotten something done with some of these veteran free agents at OT, safety, and WR. Wouldn't you?

I understand why people believe they could/should be in win now mode. I just don't see any actions taken by the team as evidence of it, and I see some glaring non actions as evidence to the contrary.



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