"If the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, then you could make a pretty uncharitable assessment of the New York Giants’ plans for their free-safety position."
He says he would expect them to take a hard look at drafting him, which is similar, but not as strong a statement.
Uber -- it's significant -- Ranaan is reporting the same thing -- the both of them were totally on point last year -- I think they've both earned the benefit of the doubt
He says he would expect them to take a hard look at drafting him, which is similar, but not as strong a statement.
Agreed - this thread subject is a bit misleading. He said he would expect them to take a hard look at drafting him if he's there. That doesn't mean much. .
"The Giants have the No. 10 pick in the NFL draft later this month, and if Florida cornerback Vernon Hargreaves is there at that spot, I'd expect them to take a hard look at drafting him. "
Hargreaves - dude looks like a playmaker and is an elite athlete at the position. Sign me up if he's there. Assuming we'd go WR or DL at 40 if he's the pick.
but come on, its obviously Graziano's opinion that he'd be their likely top player at 10. I'm sure if someone unexpected slips then that will change things, but as of now for the 5-10 players that will likely be there around 10, I'm guessing that's what he's referring to.
The Lindy's draft guide has Tampa taking him at 9.
Of course, trades could bring other teams into play. Tennessee, Dallas, Jacksonville and Baltimore all have issues at CB, and could trade down while remaining in front of the Giants. Chicago, New Orleans, Miami, Oakland, Los Angeles and Detroit are hurting in the secondary too, and all are within realistic trading range.
He says he would expect them to take a hard look at drafting him, which is similar, but not as strong a statement.
Uber -- it's significant -- Ranaan is reporting the same thing -- the both of them were totally on point last year -- I think they've both earned the benefit of the doubt
That is fine. But I am simply clarifying his own statements.
Whether it is OLT Stanley; RB Elliott; CB Hargeaves; DE Lawson or whomever, I just want a player who can make an impact.
I still believe we'll address starting WR #2, RT, CB (Powers isn't out of the picture completely....I don't think....) and maybe FS with the post draft cuts.
I would NOT be shocked if Clady was signed for LT via a trade.
I think Reese will be making some moves once draft day comes. He has money and he is not afraid to spend this year.
I mean, if we sign CLADY, a veteran WR and both play superb the next two years Eli has his window of opportunity to get to another SB with what should be an excellent offense.
going to be Conklin....the Giants won't risk a trade down and he's the guy.
Are you an asshat or are you just speculating?
Anak, If I am not mistaken, I'm pretty sure Hitdog said Hargreaves/Floyd if they are there. If not it was Conklin. He said they preferred Conklin over Stanley and that Treadwell wasn't in the conversation at 10.
going to be Conklin....the Giants won't risk a trade down and he's the guy.
Are you an asshat or are you just speculating?
Anak, If I am not mistaken, I'm pretty sure Hitdog said Hargreaves/Floyd if they are there. If not it was Conklin. He said they preferred Conklin over Stanley and that Treadwell wasn't in the conversation at 10.
You're right, but I'm just wondering about Blue42's statement of fact
do Giants historically draft small CB's in the first Â
Hargreaves. If you listened to both Reese and Spags comments after the Janoris Jenkins signing, they each gave credit to Giants CB coach Tim Walton, who had previously coached Jenkins and provided a high recommendation for signing him.
The same is true with Hargreaves. Tim Walton has known and been friendly with Hargreaves for many years. It goes back to the days when Walton was the DB coach at the Univ of Miami and Hargreaves Dad was the LB coach for the Hurricanes.
Hargreaves was a younger kid at the time, but would go on to become the # 1 rated high school cornerback recruit in the country. Hargreaves was raised in Florida and would often visit the Univ of Miami campus where his Dad worked (Hargreaves Dad is currently the LB coach of the Arkansas Razorbacks) with Tim Walton.
Hargreaves is a well grounded kid, a solid cornerback and a very safe pick.
And if Hargreaves is already off the board, keep an eye on Treadwell. Remember, both Archie Manning and Cooper Manning attended Treadwell's Pro Day and have known him for years. Treadwell is another well grounded kid who will be a solid pro and a very safe pick.
Hargreaves. If you listened to both Reese and Spags comments after the Janoris Jenkins signing, they each gave credit to Giants CB coach Tim Walton, who had previously coached Jenkins and provided a high recommendation for signing him.
The same is true with Hargreaves. Tim Walton has known and been friendly with Hargreaves for many years. It goes back to the days when Walton was the DB coach at the Univ of Miami and Hargreaves Dad was the LB coach for the Hurricanes.
Hargreaves was a younger kid at the time, but would go on to become the # 1 rated high school cornerback recruit in the country. Hargreaves was raised in Florida and would often visit the Univ of Miami campus where his Dad worked (Hargreaves Dad is currently the LB coach of the Arkansas Razorbacks) with Tim Walton.
Hargreaves is a well grounded kid, a solid cornerback and a very safe pick.
And if Hargreaves is already off the board, keep an eye on Treadwell. Remember, both Archie Manning and Cooper Manning attended Treadwell's Pro Day and have known him for years. Treadwell is another well grounded kid who will be a solid pro and a very safe pick.
in Conklin, Treadwell and Elliot to take a bust in Floyd that will be out of the league after his rookie deal or on a one year prove it deal because Reese & Ross are imbeciles.
Got it.
RE: so we're going to pass a couple of sure things Â
in Conklin, Treadwell and Elliot to take a bust in Floyd that will be out of the league after his rookie deal or on a one year prove it deal because Reese & Ross are imbeciles.
Got it.
Can I ask how you know that Floyd will be "out of the league" after his rookie deal? And if you're answer is he'll be 30, he won't be. He'll be 28 at the beginning of his 5th year in the league.
ryanmkeane: Team holds an option for year five on first-round picks. Â
He'll be 28 at the beginning of his 5th year in the league.
True, but his first shot at free agency will likely come after that season. (Unless he's such a bust after year three that his team waives its fifth-year option.)
Not sure how much of BBC's post was sarcastic. In any case, Floyd's age probably does work against him. The problem isn't really that his career will be shorter; it's more a matter of older prospects generally having less upside. That's particularly a concern with a player who will be drafted largely on potential rather than production.
Do Giants historically draft small CB's in the first round? Head fake
Amukamara and Ross were an inch or two taller, but didn't have Hargreaves's vertical hops (Prince was close; Ross was not - a bit suprising, in view of his track background.) Hargreaves is heavier than Ross was, and he's around the same weight as Amukamara.
Pre-Reese, Will Allen was the same height as Hargreaves, maybe a hair shorter.
That's the full data set, unless you want to go back to Mark Haynes in 1980. FWIW, he was roughly VH's size.
Any of the top names mentioned would be fine except Floyd. There is nothing about this player's game tapes that show me that he is worth the 10th pick in the entire draft. Way too big a risk to be picked on potential and his advanced age doesn't help. Matter of fact, his linebacker teammate,Jenkins,has stats similar to Floyd. Seventeen sacks and 28 tackles for losses over a three year span is nothing to get excited about. Yeah, I know, he was playing out of position and the coaches didn't know how to use him. Let another team find out why he wasn't overly productive as a 23 year old college player with size and speed.
Any of the top names mentioned would be fine except Floyd. There is nothing about this player's game tapes that show me that he is worth the 10th pick in the entire draft. Way too big a risk to be picked on potential and his advanced age doesn't help. Matter of fact, his linebacker teammate,Jenkins,has stats similar to Floyd. Seventeen sacks and 28 tackles for losses over a three year span is nothing to get excited about. Yeah, I know, he was playing out of position and the coaches didn't know how to use him. Let another team find out why he wasn't overly productive as a 23 year old college player with size and speed.
This.
The Giants shouldn't have to make excuses why a player underachieved in college as the 10th overall pick and explain why his measurables will make him a good pro.
The Giants shouldn't have to make excuses why a player underachieved in college as the 10th overall pick and explain why his measurables will make him a good pro.
Is not the protoypical NYG athlete that Ross and Reese like to draft.
I don't buy this at all. Sure hargreaves has a high ceiling, but if he can't play man coverage outside, he becomes a slot corner or a cover 3/4 corner who doesn't play 3 downs. That's not the kind of player you take top 10.
This is a front imo. Just like Zach Martin 2 years ago.
The Giants shouldn't have to make excuses why a player underachieved in college as the 10th overall pick and explain why his measurables will make him a good pro.
They drafted Beckham mostly off measurables.
I think excuses are harder to justify when you're talking about a defensive player vs an offensive player in college. We've seen plenty of WRs out of Georgia Tech blow up in the NFL bc they were stuck in a shit option offense. Defensively you can still make plays even if you're out of position and I just don't see it w Floyd.
Was not drafted mainly because of measurables. His game tapes were really good and he displayed signs of greatness with some ridiculous catches. I haven't seen anything extraordinary about Floyd except he has good combine numbers.
where people get this idea Beckham as solely drafted on measurables.
He had good tape, but with Beckham the devil was in the details. His route running, his acceleration after the catch, his ability to bend and flex his hips in awkward positions, his ability to highpoint despite his size, and that 1 handed catch off the kickoff in the endzone was literally 1 thing i had never seen a player do, ever.
Was not drafted mainly because of measurables. His game tapes were really good and he displayed signs of greatness with some ridiculous catches. I haven't seen anything extraordinary about Floyd except he has good combine numbers.
Then you haven't been paying attention. He is explosive off the line and damn near unblockable one on one.
The other top prospect that has a reasonable chance to be the pick if Hargreaves isn't there is Stanley.
If those two are gone it gets dicey and if I was in charge I'd trade down. The rest of the usual suspects don't carry a Top 10 grade for me. Ideally we'd slide down to the 15-18 range. There are any number of prospects to consider from that position that offer better bank for our buck than reaching for Treadwell, Floyd or Elliot at #10.
"Floyd is nearly unblockable one on one"? What did you read that somewhere? He was so "unblockable last season that he had a whopping 4 and a half sacks which was two less then he had in 2013. Every scouting report and tape show he is not stout at the point of attack and will be a liability in the run game. So basically you want to select him as an "elite" pass rusher though he hasn't proven to be anything like that? Floyd has way too big a bust potential to go at #10. Again, he's also going to be an old rookie. Let some other team try to see how he fits within their defense. You can get a really good football player like Deion Jones in the 3rd or 4th round. Jones had more tackles,sacks,and tackles for losses playing against the same competition as Floyd.
"Floyd is nearly unblockable one on one"? What did you read that somewhere? He was so "unblockable last season that he had a whopping 4 and a half sacks which was two less then he had in 2013. Every scouting report and tape show he is not stout at the point of attack and will be a liability in the run game. So basically you want to select him as an "elite" pass rusher though he hasn't proven to be anything like that? Floyd has way too big a bust potential to go at #10. Again, he's also going to be an old rookie. Let some other team try to see how he fits within their defense. You can get a really good football player like Deion Jones in the 3rd or 4th round. Jones had more tackles,sacks,and tackles for losses playing against the same competition as Floyd.
Getting caught up in sack numbers is a mistake. Olivier Vernon just got paid 80 million dollars and he had a whopping 7.5 sacks while playing DE full time.
Don't use that to knock Floyd, who flashes elite burst and flexibility when being asked to rush the passer. Tough to blame Floyd for being asked to play ILB despite that clearly not being his best position.
Vernon had 7 and a half sacks in the NFL with a tremendous amount of quarterback hits. Yes, he was overpaid for that production but that's free agency these days. Floyd was playing out of position? I don't see enough at ANY position to select him at #10.
"Floyd is nearly unblockable one on one"? What did you read that somewhere? He was so "unblockable last season that he had a whopping 4 and a half sacks which was two less then he had in 2013. Every scouting report and tape show he is not stout at the point of attack and will be a liability in the run game. So basically you want to select him as an "elite" pass rusher though he hasn't proven to be anything like that? Floyd has way too big a bust potential to go at #10. Again, he's also going to be an old rookie. Let some other team try to see how he fits within their defense. You can get a really good football player like Deion Jones in the 3rd or 4th round. Jones had more tackles,sacks,and tackles for losses playing against the same competition as Floyd.
Getting caught up in sack numbers is a mistake. Olivier Vernon just got paid 80 million dollars and he had a whopping 7.5 sacks while playing DE full time.
Don't use that to knock Floyd, who flashes elite burst and flexibility when being asked to rush the passer. Tough to blame Floyd for being asked to play ILB despite that clearly not being his best position.
Vernon was among the NFL leaders in QB pressures last year, top 3 IIRC.
"Floyd is nearly unblockable one on one"? What did you read that somewhere? He was so "unblockable last season that he had a whopping 4 and a half sacks which was two less then he had in 2013. Every scouting report and tape show he is not stout at the point of attack and will be a liability in the run game. So basically you want to select him as an "elite" pass rusher though he hasn't proven to be anything like that? Floyd has way too big a bust potential to go at #10. Again, he's also going to be an old rookie. Let some other team try to see how he fits within their defense. You can get a really good football player like Deion Jones in the 3rd or 4th round. Jones had more tackles,sacks,and tackles for losses playing against the same competition as Floyd.
Getting caught up in sack numbers is a mistake. Olivier Vernon just got paid 80 million dollars and he had a whopping 7.5 sacks while playing DE full time.
Don't use that to knock Floyd, who flashes elite burst and flexibility when being asked to rush the passer. Tough to blame Floyd for being asked to play ILB despite that clearly not being his best position.
Vernon was among the NFL leaders in QB pressures last year, top 3 IIRC.
Exactly my point. Counting statistics often do a very poor job of reflecting a player's true ability.
"Floyd is nearly unblockable one on one"? What did you read that somewhere? He was so "unblockable last season that he had a whopping 4 and a half sacks which was two less then he had in 2013. Every scouting report and tape show he is not stout at the point of attack and will be a liability in the run game. So basically you want to select him as an "elite" pass rusher though he hasn't proven to be anything like that? Floyd has way too big a bust potential to go at #10. Again, he's also going to be an old rookie. Let some other team try to see how he fits within their defense. You can get a really good football player like Deion Jones in the 3rd or 4th round. Jones had more tackles,sacks,and tackles for losses playing against the same competition as Floyd.
Getting caught up in sack numbers is a mistake. Olivier Vernon just got paid 80 million dollars and he had a whopping 7.5 sacks while playing DE full time.
Don't use that to knock Floyd, who flashes elite burst and flexibility when being asked to rush the passer. Tough to blame Floyd for being asked to play ILB despite that clearly not being his best position.
Vernon was among the NFL leaders in QB pressures last year, top 3 IIRC.
Exactly my point. Counting statistics often do a very poor job of reflecting a player's true ability.
Jon, I see the upside and intrigue in a player like Floyd, but think 10 is too soon. I hope I am wrong.
I would like him or an OT, or Jack in a stunning drop. I don't want FLoyd, I agree with the above posters who say he is too risky a pick. If its Hargreaves then I'd still like to sign an OT in FA like Clady. I'd also like a WR in Rd2.
"Floyd is nearly unblockable one on one"? What did you read that somewhere? He was so "unblockable last season that he had a whopping 4 and a half sacks which was two less then he had in 2013. Every scouting report and tape show he is not stout at the point of attack and will be a liability in the run game. So basically you want to select him as an "elite" pass rusher though he hasn't proven to be anything like that? Floyd has way too big a bust potential to go at #10. Again, he's also going to be an old rookie. Let some other team try to see how he fits within their defense. You can get a really good football player like Deion Jones in the 3rd or 4th round. Jones had more tackles,sacks,and tackles for losses playing against the same competition as Floyd.
Getting caught up in sack numbers is a mistake. Olivier Vernon just got paid 80 million dollars and he had a whopping 7.5 sacks while playing DE full time.
Don't use that to knock Floyd, who flashes elite burst and flexibility when being asked to rush the passer. Tough to blame Floyd for being asked to play ILB despite that clearly not being his best position.
Given his size and speed, it looked more like LB was the right position for him actually. Every bit of tape where I saw him on the line, he pretty much got gobbled up by his blockers. It was when he slashed through the line from the LB spot that I thought he was decent
Hargreaves is the pick if he's there at 10. What he does say is
Quote:
The Giants have the No. 10 pick in the NFL draft later this month, and if Florida cornerback Vernon Hargreaves is there at that spot, I'd expect them to take a hard look at drafting him.
Which is Graziano expressing an opinion that the Giants should really consider this guy if he is there.
Reese will officially have the first mega bust on his resume as GM at the worst possible time. The guy doesn't have a position and we don't run a 3-4 that's conducive to tweener players like him.
He could turn out to be a good player in the right scheme and right organization but the Giants aren't the fit.
Stanley/Conklin/Hargreaves/Lawson would be much better picks at 10.
I have asked this question and nobody has entertained it but for the people who do not like Floyd as the pick at 10, so you feel he is not a good football player? Do you seriously think he can't rush the passer? Do you think he can't cover?
Take the time to imagine Floyd playing OLB at 250 lbs. Rushing on 3rd and long along with Vernon and JPP.
He is a 3 down player. Think of him as the " Joker " position that Reese envisioned Kiwi playing. But a LB playing that position, not a DE.
Floyd might not be worth the #10 pick, that is very debatable, but I think he is a 1sr round pick and will be a very effective pro OLB in any defense.
Was not drafted mainly because of measurables. His game tapes were really good and he displayed signs of greatness with some ridiculous catches. I haven't seen anything extraordinary about Floyd except he has good combine numbers.
Beckham's game tape was just as impressive as Floyd's honestly. Have you seen the clips of him bending past the OL with ease and destroying the quarterback? The ones of him chasing down running backs from the other side of the field? Or the scoop and score from 95 yards? Honestly, he has great tape, and he has some not so good tape (like Alabama). You can't just pick one game and say "this guy isn't good." Anybody could have picked a Beckham game out of a hat in college and said "this guy ehh he didn't do much this game." It's honestly really stupid to do that. Just my opinion.
the Dude -- he was one of the ones saying it was Flowers - he and Ranaan -- and they are both saying it's Hargreaves this year
RB -- how is this meaningless -- the Giants would prefer to draft a CB and they are targeting Hargreaves --- that's meaningful
Uber -- it's significant -- Ranaan is reporting the same thing -- the both of them were totally on point last year -- I think they've both earned the benefit of the doubt
Thanks jnoble..It's been awhile..
Agreed - this thread subject is a bit misleading. He said he would expect them to take a hard look at drafting him if he's there. That doesn't mean much. .
Can we get this crew together at a Texas Hold Em table with a weeks' salary on the table? Please?!
Of course, trades could bring other teams into play. Tennessee, Dallas, Jacksonville and Baltimore all have issues at CB, and could trade down while remaining in front of the Giants. Chicago, New Orleans, Miami, Oakland, Los Angeles and Detroit are hurting in the secondary too, and all are within realistic trading range.
Can we get this crew together at a Texas Hold Em table with a weeks' salary on the table? Please?!
I think most of the asshat stuff is nothing more than guesses. You don't need a crystal ball to predict who they're targeting.
Especially if two QBs go top 10.
I would guess Treadwell or Conklin.
According to the asshats, Treadwell or one of the OTs
Stanley or Conklin would be my guess.
Maybe but they are picking 10th in the draft. Higher They are in draft easier it is to read tea leaves generally
Bosa, Ramsey, Wentz, jack, Buckner, tunsil are locks to be gone.
Leaving stanley, hargreaves, elliot , Goff as top 10 guys.
Stanley elliot, Goff all play positions I wouldn't expect the giants to draft.
Hargreaves is gone then secondary option comes in their best EDGE rusher or WR.
Money on Floyd
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Who do nyg take?
Stanley or Conklin would be my guess.
I'd put Elliott in this mix as well.
[quote] In comment 12887633 Joey in VA said:
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Sink ships and it appears the ship needs to figure out who its rats are.
The higher*
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He says he would expect them to take a hard look at drafting him, which is similar, but not as strong a statement.
Uber -- it's significant -- Ranaan is reporting the same thing -- the both of them were totally on point last year -- I think they've both earned the benefit of the doubt
That is fine. But I am simply clarifying his own statements.
Hargreaves
Floyd
Conklin over Stanley or Treadwell
as of now.
Are you an asshat or are you just speculating?
I still believe we'll address starting WR #2, RT, CB (Powers isn't out of the picture completely....I don't think....) and maybe FS with the post draft cuts.
I would NOT be shocked if Clady was signed for LT via a trade.
I think Reese will be making some moves once draft day comes. He has money and he is not afraid to spend this year.
I mean, if we sign CLADY, a veteran WR and both play superb the next two years Eli has his window of opportunity to get to another SB with what should be an excellent offense.
Link - ( New Window )
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going to be Conklin....the Giants won't risk a trade down and he's the guy.
Are you an asshat or are you just speculating?
Anak, If I am not mistaken, I'm pretty sure Hitdog said Hargreaves/Floyd if they are there. If not it was Conklin. He said they preferred Conklin over Stanley and that Treadwell wasn't in the conversation at 10.
Yes, but 3 of the 5 have VH being available.
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In comment 12887693 blue42 said:
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going to be Conklin....the Giants won't risk a trade down and he's the guy.
Are you an asshat or are you just speculating?
Anak, If I am not mistaken, I'm pretty sure Hitdog said Hargreaves/Floyd if they are there. If not it was Conklin. He said they preferred Conklin over Stanley and that Treadwell wasn't in the conversation at 10.
You're right, but I'm just wondering about Blue42's statement of fact
The same is true with Hargreaves. Tim Walton has known and been friendly with Hargreaves for many years. It goes back to the days when Walton was the DB coach at the Univ of Miami and Hargreaves Dad was the LB coach for the Hurricanes.
Hargreaves was a younger kid at the time, but would go on to become the # 1 rated high school cornerback recruit in the country. Hargreaves was raised in Florida and would often visit the Univ of Miami campus where his Dad worked (Hargreaves Dad is currently the LB coach of the Arkansas Razorbacks) with Tim Walton.
Hargreaves is a well grounded kid, a solid cornerback and a very safe pick.
And if Hargreaves is already off the board, keep an eye on Treadwell. Remember, both Archie Manning and Cooper Manning attended Treadwell's Pro Day and have known him for years. Treadwell is another well grounded kid who will be a solid pro and a very safe pick.
The same is true with Hargreaves. Tim Walton has known and been friendly with Hargreaves for many years. It goes back to the days when Walton was the DB coach at the Univ of Miami and Hargreaves Dad was the LB coach for the Hurricanes.
Hargreaves was a younger kid at the time, but would go on to become the # 1 rated high school cornerback recruit in the country. Hargreaves was raised in Florida and would often visit the Univ of Miami campus where his Dad worked (Hargreaves Dad is currently the LB coach of the Arkansas Razorbacks) with Tim Walton.
Hargreaves is a well grounded kid, a solid cornerback and a very safe pick.
And if Hargreaves is already off the board, keep an eye on Treadwell. Remember, both Archie Manning and Cooper Manning attended Treadwell's Pro Day and have known him for years. Treadwell is another well grounded kid who will be a solid pro and a very safe pick.
Spot on.
TUNSIL
BOSA
BUCKNER
JACK
RAMSEY
WENTZ
Are locks to fall somewhere 1-9
That leaves three more before our pick, hopefully Goff, Elliot, and Stanley
But Hargreaves could easily knock any of those latter names out.
Got it.
Got it.
Can I ask how you know that Floyd will be "out of the league" after his rookie deal? And if you're answer is he'll be 30, he won't be. He'll be 28 at the beginning of his 5th year in the league.
True, but his first shot at free agency will likely come after that season. (Unless he's such a bust after year three that his team waives its fifth-year option.)
Not sure how much of BBC's post was sarcastic. In any case, Floyd's age probably does work against him. The problem isn't really that his career will be shorter; it's more a matter of older prospects generally having less upside. That's particularly a concern with a player who will be drafted largely on potential rather than production.
Amukamara and Ross were an inch or two taller, but didn't have Hargreaves's vertical hops (Prince was close; Ross was not - a bit suprising, in view of his track background.) Hargreaves is heavier than Ross was, and he's around the same weight as Amukamara.
Pre-Reese, Will Allen was the same height as Hargreaves, maybe a hair shorter.
That's the full data set, unless you want to go back to Mark Haynes in 1980. FWIW, he was roughly VH's size.
This.
The Giants shouldn't have to make excuses why a player underachieved in college as the 10th overall pick and explain why his measurables will make him a good pro.
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The Giants shouldn't have to make excuses why a player underachieved in college as the 10th overall pick and explain why his measurables will make him a good pro.
They drafted Beckham mostly off measurables.
I don't buy this at all. Sure hargreaves has a high ceiling, but if he can't play man coverage outside, he becomes a slot corner or a cover 3/4 corner who doesn't play 3 downs. That's not the kind of player you take top 10.
This is a front imo. Just like Zach Martin 2 years ago.
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In comment 12887935 Marty866b said:
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The Giants shouldn't have to make excuses why a player underachieved in college as the 10th overall pick and explain why his measurables will make him a good pro.
They drafted Beckham mostly off measurables.
I think excuses are harder to justify when you're talking about a defensive player vs an offensive player in college. We've seen plenty of WRs out of Georgia Tech blow up in the NFL bc they were stuck in a shit option offense. Defensively you can still make plays even if you're out of position and I just don't see it w Floyd.
He had good tape, but with Beckham the devil was in the details. His route running, his acceleration after the catch, his ability to bend and flex his hips in awkward positions, his ability to highpoint despite his size, and that 1 handed catch off the kickoff in the endzone was literally 1 thing i had never seen a player do, ever.
Then you haven't been paying attention. He is explosive off the line and damn near unblockable one on one.
If those two are gone it gets dicey and if I was in charge I'd trade down. The rest of the usual suspects don't carry a Top 10 grade for me. Ideally we'd slide down to the 15-18 range. There are any number of prospects to consider from that position that offer better bank for our buck than reaching for Treadwell, Floyd or Elliot at #10.
Hargreaves would be a great pick to bolster our defense.
Getting caught up in sack numbers is a mistake. Olivier Vernon just got paid 80 million dollars and he had a whopping 7.5 sacks while playing DE full time.
Don't use that to knock Floyd, who flashes elite burst and flexibility when being asked to rush the passer. Tough to blame Floyd for being asked to play ILB despite that clearly not being his best position.
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"Floyd is nearly unblockable one on one"? What did you read that somewhere? He was so "unblockable last season that he had a whopping 4 and a half sacks which was two less then he had in 2013. Every scouting report and tape show he is not stout at the point of attack and will be a liability in the run game. So basically you want to select him as an "elite" pass rusher though he hasn't proven to be anything like that? Floyd has way too big a bust potential to go at #10. Again, he's also going to be an old rookie. Let some other team try to see how he fits within their defense. You can get a really good football player like Deion Jones in the 3rd or 4th round. Jones had more tackles,sacks,and tackles for losses playing against the same competition as Floyd.
Getting caught up in sack numbers is a mistake. Olivier Vernon just got paid 80 million dollars and he had a whopping 7.5 sacks while playing DE full time.
Don't use that to knock Floyd, who flashes elite burst and flexibility when being asked to rush the passer. Tough to blame Floyd for being asked to play ILB despite that clearly not being his best position.
Vernon was among the NFL leaders in QB pressures last year, top 3 IIRC.
I concur.
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In comment 12888151 Marty866b said:
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"Floyd is nearly unblockable one on one"? What did you read that somewhere? He was so "unblockable last season that he had a whopping 4 and a half sacks which was two less then he had in 2013. Every scouting report and tape show he is not stout at the point of attack and will be a liability in the run game. So basically you want to select him as an "elite" pass rusher though he hasn't proven to be anything like that? Floyd has way too big a bust potential to go at #10. Again, he's also going to be an old rookie. Let some other team try to see how he fits within their defense. You can get a really good football player like Deion Jones in the 3rd or 4th round. Jones had more tackles,sacks,and tackles for losses playing against the same competition as Floyd.
Getting caught up in sack numbers is a mistake. Olivier Vernon just got paid 80 million dollars and he had a whopping 7.5 sacks while playing DE full time.
Don't use that to knock Floyd, who flashes elite burst and flexibility when being asked to rush the passer. Tough to blame Floyd for being asked to play ILB despite that clearly not being his best position.
Vernon was among the NFL leaders in QB pressures last year, top 3 IIRC.
Exactly my point. Counting statistics often do a very poor job of reflecting a player's true ability.
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In comment 12888163 Jon in NYC said:
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In comment 12888151 Marty866b said:
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"Floyd is nearly unblockable one on one"? What did you read that somewhere? He was so "unblockable last season that he had a whopping 4 and a half sacks which was two less then he had in 2013. Every scouting report and tape show he is not stout at the point of attack and will be a liability in the run game. So basically you want to select him as an "elite" pass rusher though he hasn't proven to be anything like that? Floyd has way too big a bust potential to go at #10. Again, he's also going to be an old rookie. Let some other team try to see how he fits within their defense. You can get a really good football player like Deion Jones in the 3rd or 4th round. Jones had more tackles,sacks,and tackles for losses playing against the same competition as Floyd.
Getting caught up in sack numbers is a mistake. Olivier Vernon just got paid 80 million dollars and he had a whopping 7.5 sacks while playing DE full time.
Don't use that to knock Floyd, who flashes elite burst and flexibility when being asked to rush the passer. Tough to blame Floyd for being asked to play ILB despite that clearly not being his best position.
Vernon was among the NFL leaders in QB pressures last year, top 3 IIRC.
Exactly my point. Counting statistics often do a very poor job of reflecting a player's true ability.
Jon, I see the upside and intrigue in a player like Floyd, but think 10 is too soon. I hope I am wrong.
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"Floyd is nearly unblockable one on one"? What did you read that somewhere? He was so "unblockable last season that he had a whopping 4 and a half sacks which was two less then he had in 2013. Every scouting report and tape show he is not stout at the point of attack and will be a liability in the run game. So basically you want to select him as an "elite" pass rusher though he hasn't proven to be anything like that? Floyd has way too big a bust potential to go at #10. Again, he's also going to be an old rookie. Let some other team try to see how he fits within their defense. You can get a really good football player like Deion Jones in the 3rd or 4th round. Jones had more tackles,sacks,and tackles for losses playing against the same competition as Floyd.
Getting caught up in sack numbers is a mistake. Olivier Vernon just got paid 80 million dollars and he had a whopping 7.5 sacks while playing DE full time.
Don't use that to knock Floyd, who flashes elite burst and flexibility when being asked to rush the passer. Tough to blame Floyd for being asked to play ILB despite that clearly not being his best position.
Given his size and speed, it looked more like LB was the right position for him actually. Every bit of tape where I saw him on the line, he pretty much got gobbled up by his blockers. It was when he slashed through the line from the LB spot that I thought he was decent
He could turn out to be a good player in the right scheme and right organization but the Giants aren't the fit.
Stanley/Conklin/Hargreaves/Lawson would be much better picks at 10.
Take the time to imagine Floyd playing OLB at 250 lbs. Rushing on 3rd and long along with Vernon and JPP.
He is a 3 down player. Think of him as the " Joker " position that Reese envisioned Kiwi playing. But a LB playing that position, not a DE.
Floyd might not be worth the #10 pick, that is very debatable, but I think he is a 1sr round pick and will be a very effective pro OLB in any defense.
I still can't believe Sintim was our backup option for our first pick in '09.
Beckham's game tape was just as impressive as Floyd's honestly. Have you seen the clips of him bending past the OL with ease and destroying the quarterback? The ones of him chasing down running backs from the other side of the field? Or the scoop and score from 95 yards? Honestly, he has great tape, and he has some not so good tape (like Alabama). You can't just pick one game and say "this guy isn't good." Anybody could have picked a Beckham game out of a hat in college and said "this guy ehh he didn't do much this game." It's honestly really stupid to do that. Just my opinion.