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Dan Graziano: Hargreaves is the pick if he's there at 10

gidiefor : Mod : 4/4/2016 12:55 pm
Lonk below
Giants Need CBs - ( New Window )
Yep  
JonC : 4/4/2016 12:57 pm : link
and it's Floyd if VH is gone.
was he the one  
The Dude : 4/4/2016 12:57 pm : link
that called Flowers weeks before the draft? or was that ralph.
Kind of a meaningless statement  
RB^2 : 4/4/2016 12:58 pm : link
It depends on all the players on the board at 10. If VH and Bosa are both available at 10, is VH still the pick?
RE: was he the one  
gidiefor : Mod : 4/4/2016 12:59 pm : link
In comment 12887588 The Dude said:
Quote:
that called Flowers weeks before the draft? or was that ralph.


the Dude -- he was one of the ones saying it was Flowers - he and Ranaan -- and they are both saying it's Hargreaves this year
RE: Kind of a meaningless statement  
gidiefor : Mod : 4/4/2016 1:00 pm : link
In comment 12887591 RB^2 said:
Quote:
It depends on all the players on the board at 10. If VH and Bosa are both available at 10, is VH still the pick?


RB -- how is this meaningless -- the Giants would prefer to draft a CB and they are targeting Hargreaves --- that's meaningful
Who are or is, a good bet to take  
Big Blue '56 : 4/4/2016 1:01 pm : link
him before 10?
He doesn;t say he's the pick if there  
UberAlias : 4/4/2016 1:01 pm : link
He says he would expect them to take a hard look at drafting him, which is similar, but not as strong a statement.
fine with me  
UConn4523 : 4/4/2016 1:01 pm : link
the NFL is all about speed and him locking up the slot with DRC and Jenkins manning the outside would make a pretty awesome combo.
the Lindy's draft guide...  
jnoble : 4/4/2016 1:02 pm : link
..has Tampa taking him at 9
meanwhile, scrolling down to the article underneath that one -  
Del Shofner : 4/4/2016 1:03 pm : link
"If the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, then you could make a pretty uncharitable assessment of the New York Giants’ plans for their free-safety position."
RE: He doesn;t say he's the pick if there  
gidiefor : Mod : 4/4/2016 1:03 pm : link
In comment 12887603 UberAlias said:
Quote:
He says he would expect them to take a hard look at drafting him, which is similar, but not as strong a statement.


Uber -- it's significant -- Ranaan is reporting the same thing -- the both of them were totally on point last year -- I think they've both earned the benefit of the doubt
Eh... I don't love Hargreaves.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/4/2016 1:03 pm : link
Hopefully someone else (Tampa?) takes him first.
RE: the Lindy's draft guide...  
Big Blue '56 : 4/4/2016 1:03 pm : link
In comment 12887605 jnoble said:
Quote:
..has Tampa taking him at 9


Thanks jnoble..It's been awhile..
RE: He doesn;t say he's the pick if there  
ryanmkeane : 4/4/2016 1:04 pm : link
In comment 12887603 UberAlias said:
Quote:
He says he would expect them to take a hard look at drafting him, which is similar, but not as strong a statement.

Agreed - this thread subject is a bit misleading. He said he would expect them to take a hard look at drafting him if he's there. That doesn't mean much. .
Hardly a definitive statement  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 4/4/2016 1:05 pm : link
"The Giants have the No. 10 pick in the NFL draft later this month, and if Florida cornerback Vernon Hargreaves is there at that spot, I'd expect them to take a hard look at drafting him. "
I love  
ryanmkeane : 4/4/2016 1:06 pm : link
Hargreaves - dude looks like a playmaker and is an elite athlete at the position. Sign me up if he's there. Assuming we'd go WR or DL at 40 if he's the pick.
.  
Danny Kanell : 4/4/2016 1:06 pm : link
Horrendous thread title.
it's close enough for me  
gidiefor : Mod : 4/4/2016 1:06 pm : link
especially considering what a bunch of our asshats are saying
Ok..then don't have to watch the first rd pick for Giants  
micky : 4/4/2016 1:07 pm : link
turn it on in 2nd rd
poor choice of words  
UConn4523 : 4/4/2016 1:10 pm : link
but come on, its obviously Graziano's opinion that he'd be their likely top player at 10. I'm sure if someone unexpected slips then that will change things, but as of now for the 5-10 players that will likely be there around 10, I'm guessing that's what he's referring to.
I love how this front office  
andrew_nyg : 4/4/2016 1:10 pm : link
is SO stealth about it's strategy moving closer to the draft.

Can we get this crew together at a Texas Hold Em table with a weeks' salary on the table? Please?!
Unless Myles Jack is there.  
Emlen'sGremlins : 4/4/2016 1:10 pm : link
Then they hopefully won't.
I hate to give him credit, but Graziano has been right  
ZogZerg : 4/4/2016 1:11 pm : link
on some things lately. I think he's right with this as well, but I don't think Hargreaves will be there at #10.
Loose lips  
Joey in VA : 4/4/2016 1:11 pm : link
Sink ships and it appears the ship needs to figure out who its rats are.
Fiddy-six/jnoble: Yup - TB is a possible destination for VH.  
Big Blue Blogger : 4/4/2016 1:14 pm : link
jnoble said:
Quote:
The Lindy's draft guide has Tampa taking him at 9.

Of course, trades could bring other teams into play. Tennessee, Dallas, Jacksonville and Baltimore all have issues at CB, and could trade down while remaining in front of the Giants. Chicago, New Orleans, Miami, Oakland, Los Angeles and Detroit are hurting in the secondary too, and all are within realistic trading range.
RE: I love how this front office  
AP in Halfmoon : 4/4/2016 1:14 pm : link
In comment 12887630 andrew_nyg said:
Quote:
is SO stealth about it's strategy moving closer to the draft.

Can we get this crew together at a Texas Hold Em table with a weeks' salary on the table? Please?!


I think most of the asshat stuff is nothing more than guesses. You don't need a crystal ball to predict who they're targeting.
I really don't  
ryanmkeane : 4/4/2016 1:14 pm : link
expect Hargreaves to be there at 10. There's a run of teams starting with Dallas that would all gladly love to have him I'm sure.
If Hargreaves and Floyd gone  
jayg5 : 4/4/2016 1:15 pm : link
Who do nyg take?
There's  
Jon in NYC : 4/4/2016 1:16 pm : link
plenty of ways VH could make it to 10.

Especially if two QBs go top 10.
RE: If Hargreaves and Floyd gone  
Jon in NYC : 4/4/2016 1:16 pm : link
In comment 12887648 jayg5 said:
Quote:
Who do nyg take?


I would guess Treadwell or Conklin.
He didn't say that  
jeff57 : 4/4/2016 1:16 pm : link
But it wouldn't be a surprise.
RE: If Hargreaves and Floyd gone  
Anakim : 4/4/2016 1:16 pm : link
In comment 12887648 jayg5 said:
Quote:
Who do nyg take?


According to the asshats, Treadwell or one of the OTs
I'd  
AcidTest : 4/4/2016 1:17 pm : link
be fine with the pick, but again, would prefer to trade down. But as others have said, he’s not likely to be available at #10. So it will be Floyd.
Misleading thread title  
Brandon Walsh : 4/4/2016 1:20 pm : link
"A long hard look" is a lot different than "he's the pick"
RE: If Hargreaves and Floyd gone  
jeff57 : 4/4/2016 1:20 pm : link
In comment 12887648 jayg5 said:
Quote:
Who do nyg take?

Stanley or Conklin would be my guess.
RE: Loose lips  
Jesse B : 4/4/2016 1:23 pm : link
In comment 12887633 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Sink ships and it appears the ship needs to figure out who its rats are.


Maybe but they are picking 10th in the draft. Higher They are in draft easier it is to read tea leaves generally

Bosa, Ramsey, Wentz, jack, Buckner, tunsil are locks to be gone.

Leaving stanley, hargreaves, elliot , Goff as top 10 guys.

Stanley elliot, Goff all play positions I wouldn't expect the giants to draft.

Hargreaves is gone then secondary option comes in their best EDGE rusher or WR.

Money on Floyd


RE: RE: If Hargreaves and Floyd gone  
ryanmkeane : 4/4/2016 1:23 pm : link
In comment 12887665 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 12887648 jayg5 said:


Quote:


Who do nyg take?


Stanley or Conklin would be my guess.

I'd put Elliott in this mix as well.
RE: RE: Loose lips  
Jesse B : 4/4/2016 1:25 pm : link
In comment 12887671 Jesse B said:
[quote] In comment 12887633 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


Sink ships and it appears the ship needs to figure out who its rats are.


The higher*
RE: RE: He doesn;t say he's the pick if there  
UberAlias : 4/4/2016 1:25 pm : link
In comment 12887610 gidiefor said:
Quote:
In comment 12887603 UberAlias said:


Quote:


He says he would expect them to take a hard look at drafting him, which is similar, but not as strong a statement.



Uber -- it's significant -- Ranaan is reporting the same thing -- the both of them were totally on point last year -- I think they've both earned the benefit of the doubt


That is fine. But I am simply clarifying his own statements.
According to Hitdog....  
Strip-Sack : 4/4/2016 1:26 pm : link
it's...

Hargreaves
Floyd
Conklin over Stanley or Treadwell

as of now.
Very reasonable  
UberAlias : 4/4/2016 1:27 pm : link
I would say.
I'm not  
ryanmkeane : 4/4/2016 1:31 pm : link
a fan of the combine in general as I've posted before, but tough to ignore that Hargreaves' was basically perfect.
it's  
blue42 : 4/4/2016 1:35 pm : link
going to be Conklin....the Giants won't risk a trade down and he's the guy.
RE: it's  
Anakim : 4/4/2016 1:39 pm : link
In comment 12887693 blue42 said:
Quote:
going to be Conklin....the Giants won't risk a trade down and he's the guy.


Are you an asshat or are you just speculating?
I just want the BPA and a guy that can play year #1  
SGMen : 4/4/2016 1:40 pm : link
Whether it is OLT Stanley; RB Elliott; CB Hargeaves; DE Lawson or whomever, I just want a player who can make an impact.

I still believe we'll address starting WR #2, RT, CB (Powers isn't out of the picture completely....I don't think....) and maybe FS with the post draft cuts.

I would NOT be shocked if Clady was signed for LT via a trade.

I think Reese will be making some moves once draft day comes. He has money and he is not afraid to spend this year.

I mean, if we sign CLADY, a veteran WR and both play superb the next two years Eli has his window of opportunity to get to another SB with what should be an excellent offense.
hope they don't draft a midget CB  
xman : 4/4/2016 1:42 pm : link
or a quasi lb who has no position and is 24 years old. I'd rather reach a bit for a sure fire DL prospect.
I would be happy with Hargreaves  
Jay on the Island : 4/4/2016 1:44 pm : link
Floyd is too risky for me at 10. Adding Hargreaves would solidify the CB position for 3 years.
FWIW, CBS Sports has mock drafts from 5 different draftniks -  
Del Shofner : 4/4/2016 1:47 pm : link
one has VH going to Tampa @ 9, none have VH going to us.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: it's  
Reb8thVA : 4/4/2016 1:50 pm : link
In comment 12887698 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 12887693 blue42 said:


Quote:


going to be Conklin....the Giants won't risk a trade down and he's the guy.



Are you an asshat or are you just speculating?


Anak, If I am not mistaken, I'm pretty sure Hitdog said Hargreaves/Floyd if they are there. If not it was Conklin. He said they preferred Conklin over Stanley and that Treadwell wasn't in the conversation at 10.
I tend to agree  
Sy'56 : 4/4/2016 1:58 pm : link
Hargreaves will be their guy but I think PHI or TB will be looking in that direction as well.
RE: FWIW, CBS Sports has mock drafts from 5 different draftniks -  
Jon in NYC : 4/4/2016 2:02 pm : link
In comment 12887714 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
one has VH going to Tampa @ 9, none have VH going to us. Link - ( New Window )


Yes, but 3 of the 5 have VH being available.
RE: RE: RE: it's  
Anakim : 4/4/2016 2:07 pm : link
In comment 12887722 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
In comment 12887698 Anakim said:


Quote:


In comment 12887693 blue42 said:


Quote:


going to be Conklin....the Giants won't risk a trade down and he's the guy.



Are you an asshat or are you just speculating?



Anak, If I am not mistaken, I'm pretty sure Hitdog said Hargreaves/Floyd if they are there. If not it was Conklin. He said they preferred Conklin over Stanley and that Treadwell wasn't in the conversation at 10.


You're right, but I'm just wondering about Blue42's statement of fact
do Giants historically draft small CB's in the first  
xman : 4/4/2016 2:07 pm : link
round? Head fake
It would not surprise me if its  
YANKEE28 : 4/4/2016 2:10 pm : link
Hargreaves. If you listened to both Reese and Spags comments after the Janoris Jenkins signing, they each gave credit to Giants CB coach Tim Walton, who had previously coached Jenkins and provided a high recommendation for signing him.

The same is true with Hargreaves. Tim Walton has known and been friendly with Hargreaves for many years. It goes back to the days when Walton was the DB coach at the Univ of Miami and Hargreaves Dad was the LB coach for the Hurricanes.

Hargreaves was a younger kid at the time, but would go on to become the # 1 rated high school cornerback recruit in the country. Hargreaves was raised in Florida and would often visit the Univ of Miami campus where his Dad worked (Hargreaves Dad is currently the LB coach of the Arkansas Razorbacks) with Tim Walton.

Hargreaves is a well grounded kid, a solid cornerback and a very safe pick.

And if Hargreaves is already off the board, keep an eye on Treadwell. Remember, both Archie Manning and Cooper Manning attended Treadwell's Pro Day and have known him for years. Treadwell is another well grounded kid who will be a solid pro and a very safe pick.

i love hargreaves  
area junc : 4/4/2016 2:22 pm : link
exciting, jump-out-of-your-chair football player. just can't see any scenario he makes it to 10. he's in play starting at pick 4 imo
RE: It would not surprise me if its  
ryanmkeane : 4/4/2016 2:23 pm : link
In comment 12887754 YANKEE28 said:
Quote:
Hargreaves. If you listened to both Reese and Spags comments after the Janoris Jenkins signing, they each gave credit to Giants CB coach Tim Walton, who had previously coached Jenkins and provided a high recommendation for signing him.

The same is true with Hargreaves. Tim Walton has known and been friendly with Hargreaves for many years. It goes back to the days when Walton was the DB coach at the Univ of Miami and Hargreaves Dad was the LB coach for the Hurricanes.

Hargreaves was a younger kid at the time, but would go on to become the # 1 rated high school cornerback recruit in the country. Hargreaves was raised in Florida and would often visit the Univ of Miami campus where his Dad worked (Hargreaves Dad is currently the LB coach of the Arkansas Razorbacks) with Tim Walton.

Hargreaves is a well grounded kid, a solid cornerback and a very safe pick.

And if Hargreaves is already off the board, keep an eye on Treadwell. Remember, both Archie Manning and Cooper Manning attended Treadwell's Pro Day and have known him for years. Treadwell is another well grounded kid who will be a solid pro and a very safe pick.

Spot on.
But Hargreaves won't be there at 10  
elimcadoo2016 : 4/4/2016 2:25 pm : link
So the pick is Floyd.
Born in Tampa he doesn't want to fall past TB  
est1986 : 4/4/2016 2:27 pm : link
And he won't...

TUNSIL
BOSA
BUCKNER
JACK
RAMSEY
WENTZ

Are locks to fall somewhere 1-9

That leaves three more before our pick, hopefully Goff, Elliot, and Stanley
But Hargreaves could easily knock any of those latter names out.
so we're going to pass a couple of sure things  
BigBlueCane : 4/4/2016 2:39 pm : link
in Conklin, Treadwell and Elliot to take a bust in Floyd that will be out of the league after his rookie deal or on a one year prove it deal because Reese & Ross are imbeciles.

Got it.
RE: so we're going to pass a couple of sure things  
ryanmkeane : 4/4/2016 2:43 pm : link
In comment 12887814 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
in Conklin, Treadwell and Elliot to take a bust in Floyd that will be out of the league after his rookie deal or on a one year prove it deal because Reese & Ross are imbeciles.

Got it.

Can I ask how you know that Floyd will be "out of the league" after his rookie deal? And if you're answer is he'll be 30, he won't be. He'll be 28 at the beginning of his 5th year in the league.
ryanmkeane: Team holds an option for year five on first-round picks.  
Big Blue Blogger : 4/4/2016 2:50 pm : link
ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
He'll be 28 at the beginning of his 5th year in the league.

True, but his first shot at free agency will likely come after that season. (Unless he's such a bust after year three that his team waives its fifth-year option.)

Not sure how much of BBC's post was sarcastic. In any case, Floyd's age probably does work against him. The problem isn't really that his career will be shorter; it's more a matter of older prospects generally having less upside. That's particularly a concern with a player who will be drafted largely on potential rather than production.
Totally  
muhajir : 4/4/2016 2:53 pm : link
Misleading thread title. He didnt say that.
xman: Not much of a sample to go on re. NYG first-round CBs.  
Big Blue Blogger : 4/4/2016 3:05 pm : link
xman said:
Quote:
Do Giants historically draft small CB's in the first round? Head fake

Amukamara and Ross were an inch or two taller, but didn't have Hargreaves's vertical hops (Prince was close; Ross was not - a bit suprising, in view of his track background.) Hargreaves is heavier than Ross was, and he's around the same weight as Amukamara.

Pre-Reese, Will Allen was the same height as Hargreaves, maybe a hair shorter.

That's the full data set, unless you want to go back to Mark Haynes in 1980. FWIW, he was roughly VH's size.
OK, enough complaining on the delivery  
JonC : 4/4/2016 3:16 pm : link
Consider Graziano is mirroring info or opinion of Raanan, who nailed the pick weeks in advance last year.
this was mentioned almost a month ago  
hitdog42 : 4/4/2016 3:22 pm : link
nice to see them coming around
Hargreaves,Conklin,Stanley....  
Marty866b : 4/4/2016 3:38 pm : link
Any of the top names mentioned would be fine except Floyd. There is nothing about this player's game tapes that show me that he is worth the 10th pick in the entire draft. Way too big a risk to be picked on potential and his advanced age doesn't help. Matter of fact, his linebacker teammate,Jenkins,has stats similar to Floyd. Seventeen sacks and 28 tackles for losses over a three year span is nothing to get excited about. Yeah, I know, he was playing out of position and the coaches didn't know how to use him. Let another team find out why he wasn't overly productive as a 23 year old college player with size and speed.
If it's between Hargreaves and Floyd  
JohnVB : 4/4/2016 4:11 pm : link
I pray Hargreaves falls to us bc Floyd looks like a bust in Giants blue.

RE: Hargreaves,Conklin,Stanley....  
JohnVB : 4/4/2016 4:13 pm : link
In comment 12887935 Marty866b said:
Quote:
Any of the top names mentioned would be fine except Floyd. There is nothing about this player's game tapes that show me that he is worth the 10th pick in the entire draft. Way too big a risk to be picked on potential and his advanced age doesn't help. Matter of fact, his linebacker teammate,Jenkins,has stats similar to Floyd. Seventeen sacks and 28 tackles for losses over a three year span is nothing to get excited about. Yeah, I know, he was playing out of position and the coaches didn't know how to use him. Let another team find out why he wasn't overly productive as a 23 year old college player with size and speed.


This.

The Giants shouldn't have to make excuses why a player underachieved in college as the 10th overall pick and explain why his measurables will make him a good pro.
RE: RE: Hargreaves,Conklin,Stanley....  
ryanmkeane : 4/4/2016 4:21 pm : link
In comment 12887990 JohnVB said:
Quote:
In comment 12887935 Marty866b said:


Quote:

The Giants shouldn't have to make excuses why a player underachieved in college as the 10th overall pick and explain why his measurables will make him a good pro.

They drafted Beckham mostly off measurables.
Still have not seen  
JPinstripes : 4/4/2016 4:25 pm : link
Floyd's bench press numbers which is kind of like Treadwell not wanting to run a 40 time.
Hargreaves  
jawebb20 : 4/4/2016 4:45 pm : link
Is not the protoypical NYG athlete that Ross and Reese like to draft.

I don't buy this at all. Sure hargreaves has a high ceiling, but if he can't play man coverage outside, he becomes a slot corner or a cover 3/4 corner who doesn't play 3 downs. That's not the kind of player you take top 10.

This is a front imo. Just like Zach Martin 2 years ago.
RE: RE: RE: Hargreaves,Conklin,Stanley....  
JohnVB : 4/4/2016 4:58 pm : link
In comment 12888005 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 12887990 JohnVB said:


Quote:


In comment 12887935 Marty866b said:


Quote:

The Giants shouldn't have to make excuses why a player underachieved in college as the 10th overall pick and explain why his measurables will make him a good pro.


They drafted Beckham mostly off measurables.


I think excuses are harder to justify when you're talking about a defensive player vs an offensive player in college. We've seen plenty of WRs out of Georgia Tech blow up in the NFL bc they were stuck in a shit option offense. Defensively you can still make plays even if you're out of position and I just don't see it w Floyd.
Beckham  
Marty866b : 4/4/2016 5:04 pm : link
Was not drafted mainly because of measurables. His game tapes were really good and he displayed signs of greatness with some ridiculous catches. I haven't seen anything extraordinary about Floyd except he has good combine numbers.
yeah no idea  
jawebb20 : 4/4/2016 5:15 pm : link
where people get this idea Beckham as solely drafted on measurables.

He had good tape, but with Beckham the devil was in the details. His route running, his acceleration after the catch, his ability to bend and flex his hips in awkward positions, his ability to highpoint despite his size, and that 1 handed catch off the kickoff in the endzone was literally 1 thing i had never seen a player do, ever.
RE: Beckham  
Jon in NYC : 4/4/2016 5:15 pm : link
In comment 12888109 Marty866b said:
Quote:
Was not drafted mainly because of measurables. His game tapes were really good and he displayed signs of greatness with some ridiculous catches. I haven't seen anything extraordinary about Floyd except he has good combine numbers.


Then you haven't been paying attention. He is explosive off the line and damn near unblockable one on one.
'Hargreaves is the pick if he's there at 10'...  
Torrag : 4/4/2016 5:16 pm : link
The other top prospect that has a reasonable chance to be the pick if Hargreaves isn't there is Stanley.

If those two are gone it gets dicey and if I was in charge I'd trade down. The rest of the usual suspects don't carry a Top 10 grade for me. Ideally we'd slide down to the 15-18 range. There are any number of prospects to consider from that position that offer better bank for our buck than reaching for Treadwell, Floyd or Elliot at #10.

Jon in NYC  
Marty866b : 4/4/2016 5:29 pm : link
"Floyd is nearly unblockable one on one"? What did you read that somewhere? He was so "unblockable last season that he had a whopping 4 and a half sacks which was two less then he had in 2013. Every scouting report and tape show he is not stout at the point of attack and will be a liability in the run game. So basically you want to select him as an "elite" pass rusher though he hasn't proven to be anything like that? Floyd has way too big a bust potential to go at #10. Again, he's also going to be an old rookie. Let some other team try to see how he fits within their defense. You can get a really good football player like Deion Jones in the 3rd or 4th round. Jones had more tackles,sacks,and tackles for losses playing against the same competition as Floyd.
watch that Alabama game  
mdc1 : 4/4/2016 5:33 pm : link
....insignificant in a BIG GAME....

Hargreaves would be a great pick to bolster our defense.
RE: Jon in NYC  
Jon in NYC : 4/4/2016 5:34 pm : link
In comment 12888151 Marty866b said:
Quote:
"Floyd is nearly unblockable one on one"? What did you read that somewhere? He was so "unblockable last season that he had a whopping 4 and a half sacks which was two less then he had in 2013. Every scouting report and tape show he is not stout at the point of attack and will be a liability in the run game. So basically you want to select him as an "elite" pass rusher though he hasn't proven to be anything like that? Floyd has way too big a bust potential to go at #10. Again, he's also going to be an old rookie. Let some other team try to see how he fits within their defense. You can get a really good football player like Deion Jones in the 3rd or 4th round. Jones had more tackles,sacks,and tackles for losses playing against the same competition as Floyd.


Getting caught up in sack numbers is a mistake. Olivier Vernon just got paid 80 million dollars and he had a whopping 7.5 sacks while playing DE full time.

Don't use that to knock Floyd, who flashes elite burst and flexibility when being asked to rush the passer. Tough to blame Floyd for being asked to play ILB despite that clearly not being his best position.
Vernon  
Marty866b : 4/4/2016 5:42 pm : link
Vernon had 7 and a half sacks in the NFL with a tremendous amount of quarterback hits. Yes, he was overpaid for that production but that's free agency these days. Floyd was playing out of position? I don't see enough at ANY position to select him at #10.
RE: RE: Jon in NYC  
JPinstripes : 4/4/2016 5:43 pm : link
In comment 12888163 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 12888151 Marty866b said:


Quote:


"Floyd is nearly unblockable one on one"? What did you read that somewhere? He was so "unblockable last season that he had a whopping 4 and a half sacks which was two less then he had in 2013. Every scouting report and tape show he is not stout at the point of attack and will be a liability in the run game. So basically you want to select him as an "elite" pass rusher though he hasn't proven to be anything like that? Floyd has way too big a bust potential to go at #10. Again, he's also going to be an old rookie. Let some other team try to see how he fits within their defense. You can get a really good football player like Deion Jones in the 3rd or 4th round. Jones had more tackles,sacks,and tackles for losses playing against the same competition as Floyd.



Getting caught up in sack numbers is a mistake. Olivier Vernon just got paid 80 million dollars and he had a whopping 7.5 sacks while playing DE full time.

Don't use that to knock Floyd, who flashes elite burst and flexibility when being asked to rush the passer. Tough to blame Floyd for being asked to play ILB despite that clearly not being his best position.


Vernon was among the NFL leaders in QB pressures last year, top 3 IIRC.
Marty866b...I don't see enough at ANY position  
Torrag : 4/4/2016 5:46 pm : link
...to select Floyd at #10.

I concur.
RE: RE: RE: Jon in NYC  
Jon in NYC : 4/4/2016 5:47 pm : link
In comment 12888186 JPinstripes said:
Quote:
In comment 12888163 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 12888151 Marty866b said:


Quote:


"Floyd is nearly unblockable one on one"? What did you read that somewhere? He was so "unblockable last season that he had a whopping 4 and a half sacks which was two less then he had in 2013. Every scouting report and tape show he is not stout at the point of attack and will be a liability in the run game. So basically you want to select him as an "elite" pass rusher though he hasn't proven to be anything like that? Floyd has way too big a bust potential to go at #10. Again, he's also going to be an old rookie. Let some other team try to see how he fits within their defense. You can get a really good football player like Deion Jones in the 3rd or 4th round. Jones had more tackles,sacks,and tackles for losses playing against the same competition as Floyd.



Getting caught up in sack numbers is a mistake. Olivier Vernon just got paid 80 million dollars and he had a whopping 7.5 sacks while playing DE full time.

Don't use that to knock Floyd, who flashes elite burst and flexibility when being asked to rush the passer. Tough to blame Floyd for being asked to play ILB despite that clearly not being his best position.



Vernon was among the NFL leaders in QB pressures last year, top 3 IIRC.


Exactly my point. Counting statistics often do a very poor job of reflecting a player's true ability.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Jon in NYC  
JPinstripes : 4/4/2016 5:49 pm : link
In comment 12888195 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 12888186 JPinstripes said:


Quote:


In comment 12888163 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 12888151 Marty866b said:


Quote:


"Floyd is nearly unblockable one on one"? What did you read that somewhere? He was so "unblockable last season that he had a whopping 4 and a half sacks which was two less then he had in 2013. Every scouting report and tape show he is not stout at the point of attack and will be a liability in the run game. So basically you want to select him as an "elite" pass rusher though he hasn't proven to be anything like that? Floyd has way too big a bust potential to go at #10. Again, he's also going to be an old rookie. Let some other team try to see how he fits within their defense. You can get a really good football player like Deion Jones in the 3rd or 4th round. Jones had more tackles,sacks,and tackles for losses playing against the same competition as Floyd.



Getting caught up in sack numbers is a mistake. Olivier Vernon just got paid 80 million dollars and he had a whopping 7.5 sacks while playing DE full time.

Don't use that to knock Floyd, who flashes elite burst and flexibility when being asked to rush the passer. Tough to blame Floyd for being asked to play ILB despite that clearly not being his best position.



Vernon was among the NFL leaders in QB pressures last year, top 3 IIRC.



Exactly my point. Counting statistics often do a very poor job of reflecting a player's true ability.


Jon, I see the upside and intrigue in a player like Floyd, but think 10 is too soon. I hope I am wrong.
I'm fine with Hargreaves  
PatersonPlank : 4/4/2016 5:57 pm : link
I would like him or an OT, or Jack in a stunning drop. I don't want FLoyd, I agree with the above posters who say he is too risky a pick. If its Hargreaves then I'd still like to sign an OT in FA like Clady. I'd also like a WR in Rd2.
RE: RE: Jon in NYC  
chopperhatch : 4/4/2016 6:19 pm : link
In comment 12888163 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 12888151 Marty866b said:


Quote:


"Floyd is nearly unblockable one on one"? What did you read that somewhere? He was so "unblockable last season that he had a whopping 4 and a half sacks which was two less then he had in 2013. Every scouting report and tape show he is not stout at the point of attack and will be a liability in the run game. So basically you want to select him as an "elite" pass rusher though he hasn't proven to be anything like that? Floyd has way too big a bust potential to go at #10. Again, he's also going to be an old rookie. Let some other team try to see how he fits within their defense. You can get a really good football player like Deion Jones in the 3rd or 4th round. Jones had more tackles,sacks,and tackles for losses playing against the same competition as Floyd.



Getting caught up in sack numbers is a mistake. Olivier Vernon just got paid 80 million dollars and he had a whopping 7.5 sacks while playing DE full time.

Don't use that to knock Floyd, who flashes elite burst and flexibility when being asked to rush the passer. Tough to blame Floyd for being asked to play ILB despite that clearly not being his best position.


Given his size and speed, it looked more like LB was the right position for him actually. Every bit of tape where I saw him on the line, he pretty much got gobbled up by his blockers. It was when he slashed through the line from the LB spot that I thought he was decent
BTW,  
chopperhatch : 4/4/2016 6:21 pm : link
What is his position then Jon?
No where in the article does it say ...  
Beer Man : 4/4/2016 6:21 pm : link
Hargreaves is the pick if he's there at 10. What he does say is
Quote:
The Giants have the No. 10 pick in the NFL draft later this month, and if Florida cornerback Vernon Hargreaves is there at that spot, I'd expect them to take a hard look at drafting him.
Which is Graziano expressing an opinion that the Giants should really consider this guy if he is there.
If we go Floyd  
JohnVB : 4/4/2016 6:22 pm : link
Reese will officially have the first mega bust on his resume as GM at the worst possible time. The guy doesn't have a position and we don't run a 3-4 that's conducive to tweener players like him.

He could turn out to be a good player in the right scheme and right organization but the Giants aren't the fit.

Stanley/Conklin/Hargreaves/Lawson would be much better picks at 10.
Is this issue with Floyd about value?  
Rjanyg : 4/4/2016 7:58 pm : link
I have asked this question and nobody has entertained it but for the people who do not like Floyd as the pick at 10, so you feel he is not a good football player? Do you seriously think he can't rush the passer? Do you think he can't cover?

Take the time to imagine Floyd playing OLB at 250 lbs. Rushing on 3rd and long along with Vernon and JPP.

He is a 3 down player. Think of him as the " Joker " position that Reese envisioned Kiwi playing. But a LB playing that position, not a DE.

Floyd might not be worth the #10 pick, that is very debatable, but I think he is a 1sr round pick and will be a very effective pro OLB in any defense.
If Floyd is Clint Sintim 2.0  
SanFranNowNCGiantsFan : 4/4/2016 8:01 pm : link
JFC...

I still can't believe Sintim was our backup option for our first pick in '09.
I like that!  
Glover : 4/4/2016 8:30 pm : link
Hargreaves if not Shaq Lawson.
RE: Beckham  
ryanmkeane : 4/4/2016 11:03 pm : link
In comment 12888109 Marty866b said:
Quote:
Was not drafted mainly because of measurables. His game tapes were really good and he displayed signs of greatness with some ridiculous catches. I haven't seen anything extraordinary about Floyd except he has good combine numbers.

Beckham's game tape was just as impressive as Floyd's honestly. Have you seen the clips of him bending past the OL with ease and destroying the quarterback? The ones of him chasing down running backs from the other side of the field? Or the scoop and score from 95 yards? Honestly, he has great tape, and he has some not so good tape (like Alabama). You can't just pick one game and say "this guy isn't good." Anybody could have picked a Beckham game out of a hat in college and said "this guy ehh he didn't do much this game." It's honestly really stupid to do that. Just my opinion.
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