could the giants possibly pass up on elliot if the floyd or conklin is the next best player.
Elliot claims he would win the Super Bowl in NY, he clearly wants to be here.
think they'd pick Elliot simply because he wouldn't get the majority of the carries on this team and you don't pick a RB at #10 and not make him the workhorse. Mac's gone out of his way to mention Williams a couple of times now so, at the very least, he's going to make sure he gets a chance to bounce back.
The value for RBs has declined dramatically over the last 10 years. You see throughout the league RBs who were drafted later and or UDFAs that are having great success. While many of the 1st rounders have not performed at 1st round value. I think a lot of teams feel like you can get a RB later or you can use the RB by committee like the Giants because you dont have that guy who can do everything. Plus you can get a vet RB on the cheap these days.
I think a 1st round draft pick should come from a premium position like OT, DL, CB LB or WR. Places where it will cost a lot for a vet. Not saying you overdraft a position but if there are several players of equal value you go with the premium position. If Elliott is a once in a decade player then you draft him. I dont think he is that guy and I think we can fill the RB hole much later in the draft 4th round or later. We spent a lot on Vereen and I would like to see us use him more.
Personally, I wouldn't burn a top 10 pick on ANY running back
1) Short NFL lifespan. RBs take a beating and after a couple years lose their willingness to charge into piles and start trying to be finesse backs. Even Jim Brown and Walter Payton couldn't do what they did with today's defensive players in the NFL. RB by committee lengthens a career and keeps legs fresh.
2) A great running game takes more than personal effort of a RB and is made by having a dominant offensive line that can push holes open and pickup charging LBrs. Without a dominant line, a RB cannot do it all by himself.
3) Winning teams in this era of the NFL does so with a great air game - solid WR's and TEs. The old "grind and pound ground" days are gone, probably forever. It would be nice though to have an oversized back for short yardage who can drag 4 players for 5 yards like Csonka used to.
4) I still have an awful taste in my mouth from Ron Dayne who was going to revolutionize the ground game for the Giants
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Don't get me wrong - Elliot would be a sweet player to have on the team if you could pick him up in a later round. Just not in the front half of the first round.
would right away be our top RB. He would give us something we sorely need which is a consistent running game. He is one of the few RBs would can play all 3 downs coming out of a draft. While I would rather take another player to try and say he wouldn't help our team greatly is wrong.
He doens't stack up against the great RB prospects of the modern era. Faulk, Peterson, Gurley all possess a level of athletic ability he doesn't.
None of that matters ... I heard that we will win another Super Bowl just if we draft him from someone or another ... and some just some BBI poster ... :-)
It's likely that he will be a productive NFL RB. But the bust and injury potential for RB's seem to be higher than some other positions. There are too many other attractive alternatives among DL, DB and OL to consider Zeke @ #10. I think (Hope!) the Giants may have learned a lesson about drafting RB's in the 1st by now.
The right (Jonathan!) Williams in the 4th is something I'd like to see if they feel they want/need RB help. But frankly, I don't think they do.
Not looking at this correctly to say we have 5 RBs
Jennings is fine but 31 years old already. May still have a few years but they are the declining kind.
Vareen is fine too but a 3rd down back.
Darkwa & Rainey are backups at best that border on not dressing each week.
Williams needs to show marked improvement or he will be looking for a new home.
We may not need a RB this year, but we will desperately need one next season. So if the FO likes Elliott enough because he can run/catch/block, he is a very good pick imo.
The Giants simply do not run the ball enough to use a 10th OA pick on a RB, its just the truth. They are a passing team, the more you can throw the ball to OBJ the better.
The Giants simply do not run the ball enough to use a 10th OA pick on a RB, its just the truth. They are a passing team, the more you can throw the ball to OBJ the better.
Well if you know anything about Elliott you would know he is good out of the back field and pass protection. He is one of the most NFL ready backs i have seen in a long time. Also we run the ball a lot. Imagine if instead of 3 yards a carry we were getting 5! 2nd and short and 3rd and short... better than what we have had.
Look at Lamar Millers stats in Miami,then tell us about their OL
Is this an argument for or against drafting a RB, I can't tell? Miller's stats for 2015 are almost identical to Jennings's, but I'm not sure if that was your point.
With this crazy overthinking of the rb position. Can Elliot be a big time rb in the NFL? Simple fucking question. If he has the goods he would help any team let alone a team like the Giants who have one of the least inspiring groups of rb in the NFL . They invested hardly anything in Jennings and he's likely only got 1-2 years left on his deal anyway. The guy is being paid like a platoon rb.
This rb talk is so weird to me. It's gotten out of control everywhere. If Elliot has the goods to be an NFL star rb you want that on your team even if he "only" playa 4-5 years. You win with the young player in forays NFL that's how the Giants won.
running game? Would it be Elliot or Conklin at RT?
I'm not sure myself. If you think about it, a guy like Conklin would probably help all our current backs.
1. Rashad Jennings - This guy is 31 years old. Never been durable. Cannot sustain his health over 16 games. Going into the season with an over-the-hill starter who can't stay healthy is a mistake. Sorry. Its stupid.
2. Andre Williams - Is still learning to set up blocks. Impatient. Window is just about closed. This is his last chance. Can't catch a ball to save his life.
3. Shane Vereen - best thing he does is catch the ball, not run it. Kind of does everything well as a runner but nothing great.
4. Orleans Darkwa - Though he has had success in spurts - largely untested and unproven in the NFL.
5. Bobby Rainey - Least physically talented of all the RB's but has proven he can get through the line. Fringe player thus far.
Enter Ezekiel Elliott - who pretty much does everything. Runs, catches, blocks (he actually loves to block and understands its importance), and oh get this....
you ready?
He doesn't get hurt, Rashad.
He is a complete player.
There are valid reasons for drafting him and also valid reasons not to. There are many holes on this team.
But I don't believe the current group is a recipe for success going forward.
Without a guy like Elliott, the Giants have to HOPE that:
a) Jennings stays healthy at age 31
b) Williams learns to be patient and see holes. I don't care what line of McAdoo-doo was fed to the media. He knows Williams needs to get it together and his time is running out.
c) Darkwa takes the next step and is impressive enough to earn time ahead of one or both of the other two.
Thats a lot of hoping. 9 times out of 10, hopes don't materialize and this is just one of the many reasons why the Giants are mucking it every year. They take too many chances and don't hedge their bets.
1.) We have five RB's because we don't have a complete RB. So they piecemeal a bunch of guys together hoping to make up the production. The same way they have dealt with the FS and TE position. So a case could me made based on that fact alone that they should try to upgrade RB, FS, TE & OT just so they don't have to carry so many guys.
2.) The Giants want to run a balanced offensive attack. I believe Brandon and Derrick Ward were the last 1000 yard rushers. If Eli is throwing more because there's no continuity in the running game it leads to more Int's. Plus the 3rd down % has not been good for years.
3.) The defense isn't going to be effective down the stretch if the offense continues to go 3 and out. They will be sucking wind in the 4th because they are relying on Eli's arm or 5 so so RB's splitting time not getting into a groove. Drafting Elliott improves the defense day 1.
If Elliott is there take him
1. RB
2. FS
3. OT
4. WR
If Elliott isn't there
1. OT
2. FS
3. TE
4. WR
If available at slot 10, Elliot will likely receive due
1.) We have five RB's because we don't have a complete RB. So they piecemeal a bunch of guys together hoping to make up the production. The same way they have dealt with the FS and TE position. So a case could me made based on that fact alone that they should try to upgrade RB, FS, TE & OT just so they don't have to carry so many guys.
2.) The Giants want to run a balanced offensive attack. I believe Brandon and Derrick Ward were the last 1000 yard rushers. If Eli is throwing more because there's no continuity in the running game it leads to more Int's. Plus the 3rd down % has not been good for years.
3.) The defense isn't going to be effective down the stretch if the offense continues to go 3 and out. They will be sucking wind in the 4th because they are relying on Eli's arm or 5 so so RB's splitting time not getting into a groove. Drafting Elliott improves the defense day 1.
If Elliott is there take him
1. RB
2. FS
3. OT
4. WR
If Elliott isn't there
1. OT
2. FS
3. TE
4. WR
Way too little defense and they're definitely taking a WR in the 1st three rounds somewhere, in my view. I don't see Safety being targeted 'til later. OT will also be viewed as an early prospect, though we'll see if Conklin is the choice.
He doens't stack up against the great RB prospects of the modern era. Faulk, Peterson, Gurley all possess a level of athletic ability he doesn't.
He doens't stack up against the great RB prospects of the modern era. Faulk, Peterson, Gurley all possess a level of athletic ability he doesn't.
Disagree on Gurley. Elliott is every bit the athlete that Gurley is.
I think a 1st round draft pick should come from a premium position like OT, DL, CB LB or WR. Places where it will cost a lot for a vet. Not saying you overdraft a position but if there are several players of equal value you go with the premium position. If Elliott is a once in a decade player then you draft him. I dont think he is that guy and I think we can fill the RB hole much later in the draft 4th round or later. We spent a lot on Vereen and I would like to see us use him more.
1) Short NFL lifespan. RBs take a beating and after a couple years lose their willingness to charge into piles and start trying to be finesse backs. Even Jim Brown and Walter Payton couldn't do what they did with today's defensive players in the NFL. RB by committee lengthens a career and keeps legs fresh.
2) A great running game takes more than personal effort of a RB and is made by having a dominant offensive line that can push holes open and pickup charging LBrs. Without a dominant line, a RB cannot do it all by himself.
3) Winning teams in this era of the NFL does so with a great air game - solid WR's and TEs. The old "grind and pound ground" days are gone, probably forever. It would be nice though to have an oversized back for short yardage who can drag 4 players for 5 yards like Csonka used to.
4) I still have an awful taste in my mouth from Ron Dayne who was going to revolutionize the ground game for the Giants
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Don't get me wrong - Elliot would be a sweet player to have on the team if you could pick him up in a later round. Just not in the front half of the first round.
He doens't stack up against the great RB prospects of the modern era. Faulk, Peterson, Gurley all possess a level of athletic ability he doesn't.
None of that matters ... I heard that we will win another Super Bowl just if we draft him from someone or another ... and some just some BBI poster ... :-)
The right (Jonathan!) Williams in the 4th is something I'd like to see if they feel they want/need RB help. But frankly, I don't think they do.
Vareen is fine too but a 3rd down back.
Darkwa & Rainey are backups at best that border on not dressing each week.
Williams needs to show marked improvement or he will be looking for a new home.
We may not need a RB this year, but we will desperately need one next season. So if the FO likes Elliott enough because he can run/catch/block, he is a very good pick imo.
Well if you know anything about Elliott you would know he is good out of the back field and pass protection. He is one of the most NFL ready backs i have seen in a long time. Also we run the ball a lot. Imagine if instead of 3 yards a carry we were getting 5! 2nd and short and 3rd and short... better than what we have had.
in no planet is Elliot a bad player. If he's there he would be on the top of the list overall
Tackles are not impact players. No value at Safety or WR left at #10.
If they don't like any of those 3 guys, they need to trade down.
This rb talk is so weird to me. It's gotten out of control everywhere. If Elliot has the goods to be an NFL star rb you want that on your team even if he "only" playa 4-5 years. You win with the young player in forays NFL that's how the Giants won.
Better than what we have? Yes, but without blocking in front of him, he will not be the runner he is expected to be...
The OL has to get better first....
I'm not sure myself. If you think about it, a guy like Conklin would probably help all our current backs.
Which of these 5 RB's can you count on?
1. Rashad Jennings - This guy is 31 years old. Never been durable. Cannot sustain his health over 16 games. Going into the season with an over-the-hill starter who can't stay healthy is a mistake. Sorry. Its stupid.
2. Andre Williams - Is still learning to set up blocks. Impatient. Window is just about closed. This is his last chance. Can't catch a ball to save his life.
3. Shane Vereen - best thing he does is catch the ball, not run it. Kind of does everything well as a runner but nothing great.
4. Orleans Darkwa - Though he has had success in spurts - largely untested and unproven in the NFL.
5. Bobby Rainey - Least physically talented of all the RB's but has proven he can get through the line. Fringe player thus far.
Enter Ezekiel Elliott - who pretty much does everything. Runs, catches, blocks (he actually loves to block and understands its importance), and oh get this....
you ready?
He doesn't get hurt, Rashad.
He is a complete player.
There are valid reasons for drafting him and also valid reasons not to. There are many holes on this team.
But I don't believe the current group is a recipe for success going forward.
Without a guy like Elliott, the Giants have to HOPE that:
a) Jennings stays healthy at age 31
b) Williams learns to be patient and see holes. I don't care what line of McAdoo-doo was fed to the media. He knows Williams needs to get it together and his time is running out.
c) Darkwa takes the next step and is impressive enough to earn time ahead of one or both of the other two.
Thats a lot of hoping. 9 times out of 10, hopes don't materialize and this is just one of the many reasons why the Giants are mucking it every year. They take too many chances and don't hedge their bets.
2.) The Giants want to run a balanced offensive attack. I believe Brandon and Derrick Ward were the last 1000 yard rushers. If Eli is throwing more because there's no continuity in the running game it leads to more Int's. Plus the 3rd down % has not been good for years.
3.) The defense isn't going to be effective down the stretch if the offense continues to go 3 and out. They will be sucking wind in the 4th because they are relying on Eli's arm or 5 so so RB's splitting time not getting into a groove. Drafting Elliott improves the defense day 1.
If Elliott is there take him
1. RB
2. FS
3. OT
4. WR
If Elliott isn't there
1. OT
2. FS
3. TE
4. WR
Or what Curtis said, more eloquently.
2.) The Giants want to run a balanced offensive attack. I believe Brandon and Derrick Ward were the last 1000 yard rushers. If Eli is throwing more because there's no continuity in the running game it leads to more Int's. Plus the 3rd down % has not been good for years.
3.) The defense isn't going to be effective down the stretch if the offense continues to go 3 and out. They will be sucking wind in the 4th because they are relying on Eli's arm or 5 so so RB's splitting time not getting into a groove. Drafting Elliott improves the defense day 1.
If Elliott is there take him
1. RB
2. FS
3. OT
4. WR
If Elliott isn't there
1. OT
2. FS
3. TE
4. WR
Way too little defense and they're definitely taking a WR in the 1st three rounds somewhere, in my view. I don't see Safety being targeted 'til later. OT will also be viewed as an early prospect, though we'll see if Conklin is the choice.