And the Giants ALWAYS draft for need in the 1st round. With that said - I don't see Hargreaves in round 1 or Vonn Bell in round 2.
At CB, the Giants are set outside with DRC and Janoris Jenkins. Bennett Jackson looked like he had game at slot CB last year, with Trevin Wade backing up. Wade stinks but has experience in the system and I don't see desperate need there. Another talented slot CB would be nice - so would a protege to DRC and JJ - but they don't have to force it. Certainly not in round 1. Far bigger fish to fry. (This is not a team that has the luxury of grooming back-ups to solid starters.)
At S, I still believe the Giants think they're OK with Nat Berhe and a 2nd-year Landon Collins. Collins was lost last year but was only 21 and had never been to NYC before. That's a lot to ask. Again - another talented S would be nice - but no need to force it over bigger needs at OL, DL, WR or LB.
I would also suggest that the quality depth in this draft is at DT which aligns with organizational tendencies.
Nothing earth-shattering but I believe we can narrow the 1st and 2nd round picks to those 4 positions. (No DB.)
Mike, I love defense. I don't love Leonard Floyd, though.
If you recall my Jack Conklin mock draft, four out of six picks were on defense: CB Artie Burns, DE/DT Mike Tapper, FS Justin Simmons, and LB Blake Martinez.
We currently do not have a good starting WR, starting RT or starting LB.
Priorities. The giants will take gneir biggest need in the 1st and it aint DB. 2nd? Value is at DT in 2nd. Smart $$$ says DB round 3.
Taking Hargreaves at 10 is a luxury pick. Not buying the slot CB at 10 crap.
FS is a little trickier for me, because we don't know what the deal is with Taylor, Jackson, or Thompson. What I've said before, though, and what I'm sticking to is that they're either going to draft a FS prospect early, rds 1-3, who's capable of starting right away, or they won't draft one at all.
And dont get me started on brinkley, sheppard, robinson or J.t. Thomas at LB.
By the time you get to DRC and JJ's heir replacement your pretty far down the list of needs
We currently do not have a good starting WR, starting RT or starting LB.
Priorities. The giants will take gneir biggest need in the 1st and it aint DB. 2nd? Value is at DT in 2nd. Smart $$$ says DB round 3.
And what you fail to realize is that offenses are trotting out 3 WRs around 65% of the time. You need three starting-caliber CBs at minimum. It's a passing league works both ways.
junc...what's the answer to my question? I thought Bennett has been hurt 2 seasons in a row?
So, given the current roster options and the players available when the Giants draft along with remaining FA possibilities/anticipated cuts from other teams the Giants need to prioritize and take advantage of the options.
CB is absolutely a need, but you could argue there are bigger needs, but no GM wants to be in a position he has to take a player at #10 over a player he likes more because the other need is bigger - this is the marriage of BPA and need.
Quote:
so when did he look good at slot CB?
junc...what's the answer to my question? I thought Bennett has been hurt 2 seasons in a row?
He's probably talking about preseason. Jackson has never appeared in a regular season game.
They found their 2/3 CBs by drafting well in the mid to late rounds and/or finding value in FA. Reese needs to man up and find Mathieu's instead of Hosley's.
No team with the quality we have at 2 CBs has taken a CB high in the draft. Just doesn't make sense with the void the Giants have at so many other spots.
and "DB Cooper" FS ..ect
Hargreaves Very well could be our #1 and would
be Nice to see a show of Hands on Getting
Ramsey .. But as your deceiving link shows
Lots of Ways to Go with #1 and I agree as
"Athletic" as Floyd is those Spindly legs
worry me .
I was hoping Powers would be that guy added in the Slot, and then Reese could go FS in round 2 and we would be very strong in the secondary.
I just don't know where this will wind up...
I was hoping Powers would be that guy added in the Slot, and then Reese could go FS in round 2 and we would be very strong in the secondary.
I just don't know where this will wind up...
"Nobody knows, Robert. When Man entered the Atomic Age, he opened a door to a new world. What we eventually find in that world, nobody can predict..."
Oh, sorry. I channeled Edmund Gwen in THEM! for a minute.
Keep it up.
Keep it up.
I will mark this down as a very Jimmy-Googs-like post.
I laid out the reasoning just fine and JohnVB got it just fine. Very good point about where you'd typically get a 3rd/4th CB from.
Klaatu even had the nerve to say "teams are in 3 WR's 65% of the time". Well, guess what?? We only have 1 WR. In a QB/offense driven league. He's making my argument for me and he doesn't even know it.
I laid out the reasoning just fine and JohnVB got it just fine. Very good point about where you'd typically get a 3rd/4th CB from.
Klaatu even had the nerve to say "teams are in 3 WR's 65% of the time". Well, guess what?? We only have 1 WR. In a QB/offense driven league. He's making my argument for me and he doesn't even know it.
Junc, it wasn't a good opinion, so don't blame me. Your OP states...
- Jackson is ready to roll in slot yet he's never even played it in the NFL...come on
- You say Wade stinks but because he knows our system so we are ok...come on
- Collins will be better but hopefully because he is now used to the shiny lights of broadway...come on
- We have no depth at WR and that translates to nobody else does so our secondary should hold their own...come on.
Basically, come on man.
I laid out the reasoning just fine and JohnVB got it just fine. Very good point about where you'd typically get a 3rd/4th CB from.
Klaatu even had the nerve to say "teams are in 3 WR's 65% of the time". Well, guess what?? We only have 1 WR. In a QB/offense driven league. He's making my argument for me and he doesn't even know it.
Why don't you answer Jimmy's question first? Oh, I forgot...you never answer questions which are directly put to you. Sorry.
Anyway...I'm pretty confident that WR will be addressed in the upcoming draft, just as I'm confident that CB will be addressed, too. On the injury front, we know far more about how Victor Cruz is progressing than we do with any of our walking wounded in the secondary, and things are looking good so far. In addition, while the young receivers currently on the roster carry as many question marks as the young DBs, barring injury none will be called upon to play as pivotal a role on offense as the DBs will on defense. Also, the Giants may plan on giving Dwayne Harris a bigger role as a WR and less of a role on special teams, and/or throwing more to our RBs and TEs. We'll see.
So, no, we don't have just one WR. We have one terrific one and a whole lot of question marks...but many more question marks are in the secondary, especially after this year when you factor in the scuttlebutt about DRC. The time to get another good, young CB in the pipeline is now. As I said, it may not be at #10, but most likely somewhere in rds 1-3. That CB may not be a starter now (except in the slot), but he should be projected as a starter going forward.
Finally, to John's point, the Josh Normans and Richard Shermans of the world are fewer and far between than are the Joe Hadens and Patrick Petersons. If you want talent, more often than not you have to pay for it, either by drafting it with premium picks or laying down a ton of cash for it in free agency. It's all well and good to say we need to find talent in the mid-to-late rounds - hell, we say that about every position - but the odds of striking gold on day three are much lower than using premium picks to draft premium talent at premium positions. CB is one position where it would be foolish to try and build on the cheap.
Stop poking fun at me. The Giants have at least 1 more year to plug all the holes, mostly due to poor drafts and horrific injuries. I'm really hoping they load up this year with pass rushers that will help our 2ndary.
We have Collins, DRC and Jenkins. That's it in the backfield. I hope the Giants have not already determined that 2016 is DRC's last year because IMO he's played his best football in NY. He's still very good.
He made some big plays for us, in the first half of the season...but there were a lot of "drops" in the second half...
Cooper Taylor - Still unproved project.
Bennett Jackson is a CB who they are trying to make a safety.
Mykkele thompson - didn't even think he was getting drafted and has next to no production at the prior level.
Siderant - The safety interchangable thing has to stop. The Green Zone thing as well. And drafting a player at one position and teaching him 3 others as soon as he gets here. These three things the Giants have done religiously under TC and they should end with TC.
Quote:
BS Googs.
I laid out the reasoning just fine and JohnVB got it just fine. Very good point about where you'd typically get a 3rd/4th CB from.
Klaatu even had the nerve to say "teams are in 3 WR's 65% of the time". Well, guess what?? We only have 1 WR. In a QB/offense driven league. He's making my argument for me and he doesn't even know it.
Why don't you answer Jimmy's question first? Oh, I forgot...you never answer questions which are directly put to you. Sorry.
Anyway...I'm pretty confident that WR will be addressed in the upcoming draft, just as I'm confident that CB will be addressed, too. On the injury front, we know far more about how Victor Cruz is progressing than we do with any of our walking wounded in the secondary, and things are looking good so far. In addition, while the young receivers currently on the roster carry as many question marks as the young DBs, barring injury none will be called upon to play as pivotal a role on offense as the DBs will on defense. Also, the Giants may plan on giving Dwayne Harris a bigger role as a WR and less of a role on special teams, and/or throwing more to our RBs and TEs. We'll see.
So, no, we don't have just one WR. We have one terrific one and a whole lot of question marks...but many more question marks are in the secondary, especially after this year when you factor in the scuttlebutt about DRC. The time to get another good, young CB in the pipeline is now. As I said, it may not be at #10, but most likely somewhere in rds 1-3. That CB may not be a starter now (except in the slot), but he should be projected as a starter going forward.
Finally, to John's point, the Josh Normans and Richard Shermans of the world are fewer and far between than are the Joe Hadens and Patrick Petersons. If you want talent, more often than not you have to pay for it, either by drafting it with premium picks or laying down a ton of cash for it in free agency. It's all well and good to say we need to find talent in the mid-to-late rounds - hell, we say that about every position - but the odds of striking gold on day three are much lower than using premium picks to draft premium talent at premium positions. CB is one position where it would be foolish to try and build on the cheap.
We've already found talent and paid DRC and Jenkins.
The top defenses aren't taking 3rd CBs high in the draft. That's a fact. People can quote all the stats they want and but that's reality. Unless the plan is to take a DB at 10 and pencil him in as the starting FS it makes zero sense.
It's not about finding Sherman or Norman, although that would be a nice change. It's about landing Powers or R.W. McQuarters, or a Mathieu.
The bottom line is Reese has punted too many drafts after round 2, sometimes earlier. He's also punted some FA periods. He has to do his job and hit on some later round picks and FAs to build the role player spots on the roster. Maybe he'll push harder for Powers after the draft if he doesn't force a secondary pick.
BB56: Will you please stop making rational comments? It spoils all the fun.
OT- Flowers the only significant talent on the roster
FS- no proven player and all potential starters carry a significant injury history
CB- no proven talent on the roster beyond the 2 starters with DRC being 30 years old
DE- JPP on a one year prove it deal and with injury redshirt Odighizuwa as the primary rotational substitute
WR- OBJ supported by only Harris and the oft injured Cruz as the primary receivers
Given that need clearly factors into many Giants draft selections there is a strong possibility that any of these positions could be addressed in the primary Rounds 1-3 come Draft Day. Including the secondary.
The only pause the Hargreaves projections gives me is the Giants have a clear prototype at the position.
Hargreaves is both shorter and slower than their prototype
That's all I have to say about that...
Eli Apple, corner back out of Ohio State University.
This place will be fun.
However, I still think OT, RB or WR make sense too.
RB - Jennings is 30, Williams is terrible. I like Dharkwa, but can you count on him to be the starter? If Elliott is there, he's my pick.
OT - Are we really going into the season with Newhouse starting at RT?
Who's the #2 WR? Victor Cruz? Maybe, but cannot be counted on. A high pick helps OBJ get open, makes Victor work harder. Thinking we use a 1 or a 2 to address this position.
CB - We have 2 good starters. DRC isn't getting any younger though. If Hargreaves is rated that highly, they could grab him. I don't see it though.
S - We don't have a FS that has taken a snap except for Cooper Taylor. Collins was ok last season,he should get better. He's not reminding anyone of Terry Kinard though. They will grab one high, just not in the 1st.
As much as I want to take Conklin at 10, I also am terrified of our secondary. To say that WR is a higher need than WR at this point is just ignorant and foolish. We at least have players on the team to play the position in White, Harris, Davis. We literally do not have a single player who is a FS that has NFL experience. Both of them has very very bad injuries last year.
Regarding corner, the drop off at corner is more than steep. It's an abyss. While Newhouse at RT may not be ideal by any means, our pass pro last year was at least pretty good as a whole. But teams with more than one receiver will eat Wade and co alive if we don't spend somewhat high on corner.
I echo the rest....irresponsible post.
More than a starting WR opposite Beckham in a WCO? More than a starting OT? More than a stud DL or LB?
The f#ck outta here....
Wait so you're saying you're as comfortable with the starting safeties as you are with the DEs or DTs? WTF.
As much as I want to take Conklin at 10, I also am terrified of our secondary. To say that WR is a higher need than WR at this point is just ignorant and foolish. We at least have players on the team to play the position in White, Harris, Davis. We literally do not have a single player who is a FS that has NFL experience. Both of them has very very bad injuries last year.
irresponsible post? lmfao. u gotta be kidding me. Because I think there are bigger needs elsewhere that is incomprehensible to you?
typical of what u deal with here.
Regarding corner, the drop off at corner is more than steep. It's an abyss. While Newhouse at RT may not be ideal by any means, our pass pro last year was at least pretty good as a whole. But teams with more than one receiver will eat Wade and co alive if we don't spend somewhat high on corner.
I echo the rest....irresponsible post.
typical of what u deal with here.
You said you don't see as much need in the secondary as on the DL. We have 4 very good starters on the DL.
We don't have a single proven good starting safety.
typical of what u deal with here.
I love it. Practically everybody defeats your position and you stick to your guns.
Again, a total of zero FS on the team and 2 serviceable corners. But where's the need????
Keep being you dude!
You know what's irresponsible? Stock-piling talent at 1 position while letting other positions (TE, RB, LB, S) become the worst in the NFL.
You know what's irresponsible? Stock-piling talent at 1 position while letting other positions (TE, RB, LB, S) become the worst in the NFL.
"Stockpile" isn't the word I'd use to describe our secondary. Well...half of it is.
Quote:
What a laughable statement.
You know what's irresponsible? Stock-piling talent at 1 position while letting other positions (TE, RB, LB, S) become the worst in the NFL.
"Stockpile" isn't the word I'd use to describe our secondary. Well...half of it is.
No cure for stupidity.
Of course, no draft pick will have played an NFL game either
Quote:
so when did he look good at slot CB?
Of course, no draft pick will have played an NFL game either
That's true. But you would hope that the Giants wouldn't draft another conversion project, or a guy coming off two ACL tears, which is what they have in Bennett Jackson.