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2016 NYG Draft Preview - LB

Sy'56 : 4/17/2016 8:04 am
*These rankings and grades are based somewhat on NYG schemes and perspective

Analysis is the summary from my scouting report and the * is some extra for you guys.

WHERE THEY STAND:

I sound like a broken record every year with this group. The Jerry Reese regime has been trying to piece this group together with veterans that most other teams don’t want and mid to late round draft picks that have not worked out. Devon Kennard came in to the league with major injury concerns and despite showing flashes of being a plus-starter, he is coming off a 9 game season shortened by a variety of lower body injuries. The newly signed Keenan Robinson will take over the MIKE role. He’s been up and down over his 4 year career and didn’t receive much interest from the league as an UFA. Jasper Brinkley played well in the little we saw him last year but it likely best suited for a 4th LB role that can backup multiple spots and play special teams. JT Thomas was a non factor in 2015 on the weak side and Jonathan Casillas was what he’s always been, an average backup. Uani Unga will have to fight hard to make this team in 2016 and Mark Herzlich’s clock is likely ticking as well now that Tom Coughlin is gone. At the end of the day, this team’s LB group continues to be below average and it shows up on tape almost weekly.

TOP 15 GRADES AND ANALYSIS

1 – MYLES JACK – 6’1/245 – UCLA: 92


Junior entry. Ideal weak side linebacker prospect but also saw a lot of time at running back for the Bruins, mainly as a short yard specialist. Jack is a rare prospect. He is arguably the best athlete pound for pound in this entire draft class and also shows a skill set that can do countless positive things for a defense. He plays with a level of awareness, violence, and speed that does not come around often. Jack’s injury will need to be looked in to, but all signs point to him being ready for the start of 2016 Training Camp. Elite prospect that will be a playmaker right away in the NFL.

*I’ve been vocal about Jack being my desire for NYG at #10 overall. He finishes with the top grade in this draft class overall. The 4-3 LB “not being a premium position” is a very weak argument. What Jack could do from the WILL position and what the NYG defense has been struggling with for years are a perfect match. Jack can cover WRs, let alone TEs and RBs. He is more violent against blockers than defensive linemen. He has easy sideline to sideline range. He doesn’t miss tackles. Jack can be a special player that a creative defensive coordinator can do big things with. The medicals are part of the equation here and with the limited information I have, it appears he’ll be back to 100%. I would trade a 1 and a 2 for Jack. I think he will be an All Pro.

Upside Pro Comparison: Patrick Willis/RET

2 – LEONARD FLOYD – 6’6/244 – GEORGIA: 81

Fourth year junior entry. Has elite pass rushing potential because of his burst, length, and flexibility off the edge. Floyd can consistently win off the snap and always cause the blocker to adjust to him. From his early days at Georgia all the way through the end of his fourth year, Floyd has been causing disruption in the pocket. He is a guy that opposing offenses always need to find pre-snap. Even though Floyd needs time in the weight room and isn’t overly effective against the run, his specialty is special enough to warrant a high draft pick.

*The tools here are obvious. You can make the argument that Floyd has a rare combination of skills and tools. I don’t think he is simply an edge rusher at all. As a matter off fact I think he would be best off in a 4-3 SAM role. This can flip his hips and cover with the best TEs in the game right now. For teams looking for a LB that can match up with the big, athletic pass catchers, Floyd can be there man. Throw in what he is capable of doing off the edge as a blitzer and you can understand why a lot of teams have top 15 grades on him. Floyd has been getting a TON of attention over the past few months. He wasn’t exactly a stand out producer in college but the potential here is through the roof if he can bulk up a bit and increase his power presence. I still think Floyd will be the NYG pick at #10 overall. They’ve tried filling the hybrid LB/DE role multiple times over the years and it hasn’t worked yet. Floyd has more talent than all of them.

Upside Pro Comparison: Anthony Barr/MIN

3 – BJ GOODSON – 6’1/242 – CLEMSON: 79

Fifth year senior. Was a backup and special teamer for 2-plus years, with only one and half season of starting experience. Goodson is an interior enforcer that can play equally tough against blockers and ball carriers. His stoutness and short area power make him a tough assignment for any blocker and his ability to finish plays can be an asset to a defense looking for run defending help. Goodson lacks the ideal athleticism for every down duty, but he has shown to be at least competent in zone coverage and has enough range to play at least two downs in the NFL.

*I saw a ton of Goodson in 2015 and #44 kept popping on to the screen. There were so many players on that defense that I was scouting and time after time Goodson was right in the middle of the action. After further review I almost had him as a 1st rounder. Goodson is thick but fast and quick-twitched. He has all the power you want and maintains it on the move. Goodson moves well enough in coverage to possibly stay on the field for three downs. He is smart and reliable, rarely misses tackles. I don’t see superstar here and he can get overwhelmed in traffic, but Goodson is a guy that simply brings it play after play, week after week. I think he can be a 100+ tackle guy year in, year out.

Upside Pro Comparison: Preston Brown/BUF

4 – REGGIE RAGLAND – 6’1/247 – ALABAMA: 78

Fourth year senior and All American as well as SEC Defensive Player of the Year. Developed frame that carries a lot of weight with ease. Thumper inside with the power presence to own multiple gaps. Meets blockers with force and shows the ability to shed and tackle. Smart, instinctive leader of the defense. Directs traffic. Good movement post-snap that can anticipate and get a head start to where the blocker wants to meet him. Strong finisher. Tight hipped. Lacks the speed to finish plays near the sideline. Shows a lack of reaction and speed in coverage. Might not be a three down guy.

*On the surface Ragland is a guy that seems to be the ideal fit for NYG’s defensive needs. He is an elite run defender and carries the intangibles you want in the middle of your defense. I think you know that, at least, Ragland is going to be a top tier 1st and 2nd round defender in the NFL like David Harris. His issues revolve around quick twitch movement in coverage. His lack of agility and top end speed can be exploited over the middle and its possible he will be taken off the field on passing downs. That can’t be taken at #10 overall but he can be in the discussion in the 2nd round if he falls.

Upside Pro Comparison: David Harris/NYJ

5 – DEION JONES – 6’1/222 – LSU: 78

Fourth year senior with limited experience. Was a 2015 Butkus Award Finalist. Quick twitch, rangy defender that make tackles all over the field. Plays with true sideline to sideline range. Reacts to misdirection and counters quickly. Can put himself in position to make plays consistently. High IQ player. Good form tackler that is reliable in space and in traffic. Rarely misses. Effective blitzer with good timing and the ability to make himself small. Started for just one year at LSU. Lacks bulk and doesn’t appear to have the body type for more. Can be washed out of a lane by power blockers.

*Interesting prospect here that someone is going to have to take a chance on. Jones only really played for a year but he excelled and has done really well throughout the entire pre-draft process. I’ve always heard he is a standout among the visits and interviews, coaches really like this guy and how he carries himself. Jones drawback is obvious. He is a little guy that will get lost in traffic, very true. But you have to like the violence he plays with and he repeatedly showed no hesitation when it came to taking on blockers and knocking them upright. Jones can play in this league but he needs to be on the weak side as much as possible. He’ll thrive in space and be average in traffic.

Upside Pro Comparison: Lavonte David/TB

6 – KYLER FACKRELL – 6’5/250 – UTAH STATE: 78

Fourth year senior that missed 2014 with a torn ACL. Married with a child. Excellent combination of size, strength, and speed. Showed the versatility to play on the edge and in space. Easy bender that derives power from his lower body and violence from his hands. Fights off blocks while maintaining his position. Productive all over the field. Instinctive player with good reaction time. Lacks the quick twitch in short areas. Needs to develop more pass rush moves when initially beat. Too reliant on the bull rush.

*I am pretty high on Fackrell compared to what I see out there. He is more than a rush LB. Fackrell saw a ton of snaps out wide matched up against WRs and looked natural out there. He can be a factor in coverage as well as a dominant point of attack run defender. As I discussed with Floyd above, NYG wants a guy that can play LB most downs but add something as an outside rusher. Fackrell can definitely be that guy.

Upside Pro Comparison: KJ Wright/SEA

7 – SU’A CRAVENS – 6’1/226 – USC: 77

Junior entry. Came to USC ad as a top tier safety recruit and slowly but surely migrated his way to linebacker. Cravens is at his best when he can be thrown in space near the line of scrimmage with the duty of chasing after the ball. He excels at tracking guys down from behind and more importantly, finishing them off. Cravens is a violent tackler that has all the ability in space. His versatility makes him a guy that can stay on the field no matter the situation. While his ability in space is notable, perhaps his greatest skill is blitzing the edge and finding his way to the ball behind the line of scrimmage. His 32 tackles for loss over the past two years prove that. Cravens can be a star at the next level, but will be very dependent on scheme and role.

*Cravens won’t be a fit for every scheme. Some teams see him as a safety and others will look at him as a LB. You need to be very careful with guys like this. He is similar to Deone Buchanon from ARI, a standout defender for that team. But I’ll tell you this; Bucahnon would not be nearly as good on some other teams. They created a role for him and even change their scheme up a bit to fit him in. You are gonna have to do that with Cravens to maximize his potential. Cravens can be a star defender in this league that can be a force in a variety of ways depending on the situation. He could be a 1st rounder if a team can create a plan for him.

Upside Pro Comparison: Deone Buchanon/ARI

8 – DERRON LEE – 6’1/232 – OHIO STATE: 77

Junior entry. Only two years of experience. Lee has elite closing speed and ability to move in space. He has defensive back-type movement, making him a weapon in a league where spread attacks are becoming more and more common. His game is limited to a weak side role where he can roam in space and stays away from traffic. His weaknesses are exposed the closer to the line he gets, as he struggles to get off blocks and lacks staying power against them. Lee can be a dynamic playmaker in a scheme that uses a linebacker far out in space, but won’t be a fit for everyone.

*Another speedy but undersized LB here. Lee is a top 15 player according to some but I never saw it. His standout combine performance didn’t change that. Lee has range and he can tackle well on the move. He is very good ad adjusting his body weight and making the tough tackles in space. NYG could use a guy like that for sure. I just think his physical-ness is limited. He lacks presence when tackling and won’t get off NFL blockers. And for a guy that is so athletic, I never saw top tier coverage ability. With Lee you are drafting an athlete and hoping.

Upside Pro Comparison: Malcolm Smith/OAK

9 – JAYLON SMITH – 6’2/223 – NOTRE DAME: 77

Junior entry. Elite level prospect with top tier talent and intangibles. Smith has played the 3-4 rush linebacker role and a traditional 4-3 outside linebacker role. Smith has been the top player on that defense for two seasons. His ability to bang heads with blockers at the point of attack but also pose as a major threat in space makes him a fit for every scheme in the NFL. His ability is off the charts. The most important question surrounding him will be the long term prognosis of a severe knee injury he suffered in Notre Dame’s 2015 season bowl game. If his medicals can pass, he still may have to sit out the 2016 season. However if he can fully recover, we are talking about a future Pro Bowler.

*The debate about Smith and his knee is everywhere. You can’t talk about this kid without mentioning the knee, which is so unfortunate. Smith would have been in the running for a top 5 overall pick if he was healthy. I’ve confirmed it’s likely he will have to sit out 2016 but there is a better than 50% chance he reaches a full recovery. Now that is where the gamble resides. You wont get anything out of him this season and then you are only hoping for the best. At what point do you take the chance on him? My guess is he will be a 2nd round pick somewhere, possibly to a team that has an abundance of selections to work with like Tennessee.

Upside Pro Comparison: Clay Matthews/GB

10 – NICK VIGIL – 6’2/239 – UTAH STATE: 76

Fourth year junior entry. His brother Zach is a LB for the Dolphins. Two time 1st team all Mountain West defender and was sixth in the nation with 144 tackles. Vigil plays a versatile role within the defense from the inside. He can blitz, cover, defend the inside run, and reach the sidelines in pursuit. He is a complete package, every down defender. He is coming from a slightly lower level of college football but he produced at a very high level two straight seasons and scored well athletically. He has the upside of an athletic 4-3 MIKE that can start for a long time.

*Vigil actually reminds me of Myles Jack. He is not nearly on the same level overall but he is the kind of guy that can wear a lot of hats for a defense. He is violent and fast. Always has a good step and was even used on offense as a power running back. Vigil may need time to adjust to the speed and strength of NFL blockers but he has the look of a guy that will finagle his way in to a starting role at some point and excel.

Upside Pro Comparison: Demario Davis/NYJ

11 – JOSH PERRY – 6’4/254 – OHIO STATE: 76

Fourth year senior and three year starter on the strong side and in the middle. Second on the team in tackles in 2014 and 2015. Top tier intangibles off the field. Big, physical defender that excels between the tackles and did a lot of dirty work for the OSU defense that goes unnoticed by the common fan. Very good at filling lanes and at least anchoring his position against blockers. Has more straight line speed than agility, but can still reach the sidelines fast enough. His tight hips and heavy feet may make it hard for him to factor in coverage. Perry’s ideal role is a 4-3 SAM or 3-4 ILB at the next level.

*I think NYG will have a high enough grade on Perry to consider him in round 2 if they wanted to go in that direction. He has the triangle numbers they love and if they really liked Keenan Robinson enough to sign him, they could see a younger, healthier version of him in Perry to put on the depth chart. Perry is a solid guy to have on your defense but I think he is limited athletically. He lacks the quick twitch I would want from a guy in the middle but I think he can be a good point of attack defender. He is really good at taking blocks on and maintaining his position. That’s important for run defense.

Upside Pro Comparison: Brandon Marshall/DEN

12 – JORDAN JENKINS – 6’3/259 – GEORGIA: 75

Fourth year senior and two year starter. Struggled to replace former star outside linebacker Jarvis Jones early in his career but evolved in to a reliable, solid edge defender. At his best when defending the run, using his powerful frame to hold his position and strong hands to shed blockers upon diagnosing the action. Jenkins fits best in the 3-4 defense as an outside linebacker. He will be limited as a pass rusher but his aggressive nature and violent style can be used in specific but important roles.

*I questioned Jenkins’ fit in to the 4-3 scheme. He isn’t a guy you want in space covering anyone. He can’t do it. But he was one of my favorite run defenders to watch all year. He is a country-strong guy with easy thickness and power. Really stout at the point of attack and can dominate across the line. Really explosive in short spaces and I think he has some untapped pass rush upside. I really didn’t like how Georgia used him all the time. I have to grade him down here because I think he is limited at the moment, but I am intrigued by his upside.

Upside Pro Comparison: Manny Lawson/BUF

13 – TYLER MATAKEVICH – 6’0/238 – TEMPLE: 75

4 year starter that is the heart and soul of the Temple team, not just the defense. Appears to be a thumper between the tackles but he has enough range in coverage to stay on the field. He is a very solid but unspectacular MIKE prospect. I don’t think he is the gamechanger that some will say he is, but he can be a starter. I think he is slow to the sidelines and he gets caught up with blockers too often and those are really important attributes for me when grading LBs. He does show natural flow to the action and his game doesn’t require top tier athletic ability. In the right system he can be a 100+ tackle per season guy easily. You won’t find many, if any, defenders in this class with the career production he has.

*Usually I like guys with this level of on field IQ and instints. And not to say that I don’t like him, but I don’t see gamechanger in him. I think his lack of speed outside of a 3-4 yard window gets exposed too often. It shows up on every tape and it showed up at the Senior Bowl. I’d be curious to see him sit for a year and try to up his movement and strength for a year. If he can get just a little faster and stronger, I think he can be a good MLB.

Upside Pro Comparison: Dannell Ellerbe/NO

14 – KENTRELL BROTHERS – 6’0/245 – MISSOURI: 75

Fifth year senior and three year starter. Led the nation in tackles in 2015. Made a few All American teams in 2015 as well as being names 1st Team All SEC. Crafty, instinctive LB that can sort his way through the garbage to locate the football consistently. Brothers may have the best first step among the LBs in this class and he shows really good change of direction. He lacks the power presence to take on blockers head on and won’t deliver the violent tackles, however. He is a reliable, yet unspectacular LB that can easily fill the valuable 4th LB spot right away with the potential to start someday.

*Brothers will be a favorite among many people and rightfully so. He was a tackling machine over the past two years in the SEC and I think anyone would agree this is a guy that will constantly be around the ball when he’s on the field. You want as many of these guys on your defense as you can find. Personally I think he is a liability in coverage although some would argue against that. He just doesn’t move as well moving back and I think there is a significant lack of athleticism against the pass that doesn’t show up when he defends the run. He is good, but there are a few of these guys available every year.

Upside Pro Comparison: Demeco Ryans/UFA

15 – De’Vondre Campbell – 6’4/235 – MINNESOTA: 75

Fourth year senior that started off at Junior College. Started for 2+ years at Minnesota and things started to click for him in 2015. Has the combination of size and speed to go along with an unfinished frame that will excite scouts and coaches. Campbell is a high energy player that will at the very least excel on special teams. His straight line speed and explosion can make you think he has a outside pass rush ceiling that hasn’t been tapped in to just yet. He’ll likely get drafted much higher than people think based on the upside that a lot of prospects simply don’t have.

*Campbell is hard to not like. He plays hard. He’s big with the room for more weight easily. He runs. He changes direction. He hits hard. He didn’t show a lot of easy decision making though and he was often a step behind mentally. That may take some time but if he can improve the on field IQ, we are talking about a potential game changer. Reese is going to like the tools here and we’ve seen him go after guys like this before.

Upside Pro Comparison: Akeem Ayers/LA

THE REST (16-25)

16 – JOE SCHOBERT – 6’1/244 – WISCONSIN: 74
17 – KAMALEI CORREA – 6’3/243 – BOISE STATE: 74
18 – CASSANOVA MCKINZY – 6’1/248 – AUBURN: 72
19 – TRAVIS FEENEY – 6’4/230 – WASHINGTON: 72
20 – NICK KWIATKOWSKI – 6’2/243 – WEST VIRGINIA: 71
21 – YANNICK NGAKOUE – 6’2/252 – MARYLAND: 70
22 – DEON KING – 6’1/230 – NORFOLK STATE: 70
23 – BLAKE MARTINEZ – 6’2/237 – STANFORD: 70
24 – STEVEN DANIELS – 5’11/243 – BOSTON COLLEGE: 70
25 – ANTONIO MORRISON – 6’1/233 – FLORIDA: 68

NYG APPROACH:


Yes I am still under the school of thought that LBs, even in the 4-3, can be a huge source of production for the defense. A source NYG has not been able to consistently pull from for years. Myles Jack will finish this whole process as my #1 overall player and target for NYG. I don’t expect him to be there and I won’t have any other LB in the discussion at #10 for me personally, although I think NYG will go hard after Floyd. The thing about this class is that I think it’s the deepest group of LBs I have ever seen when it comes to the day two prospects. Guys that are on the unspectacular side but either offer big time upside or a high floor. NYG has gotten in trouble with those kinds of players in the past but I simply think they went after the wrong guys. I am content if NYG wants to wait until round 3 or 4, as I think there will be a good group to choose from at the points respectively.


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Sy  
jbeintherockies : 4/17/2016 2:32 pm : link
What rating did you give Von Miller?
Whoever drafts kentrell brothers  
wrecking crew : 4/17/2016 2:33 pm : link
is going to get one of the steals of the draft. He is a football player. Period.
RE: Sy  
Sy'56 : 4/17/2016 2:36 pm : link
In comment 12906504 jbeintherockies said:
Quote:
What rating did you give Von Miller?


91
RE: is there any reason why Jack  
Sy'56 : 4/17/2016 2:37 pm : link
In comment 12906395 chris r said:
Quote:
can't play MLB in the 4-3?


I think its less than ideal but he can play the spot well enough. You want him in space as much as possible. I would still use him as a MIKE though.
RE: RE: is there any reason why Jack  
chris r : 4/17/2016 2:38 pm : link
In comment 12906511 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 12906395 chris r said:


Quote:


can't play MLB in the 4-3?



I think its less than ideal but he can play the spot well enough. You want him in space as much as possible. I would still use him as a MIKE though.


Didn't Willis play in the 4-3 at some point?
also Hankins and Harrison should keep him pretty clean  
chris r : 4/17/2016 2:39 pm : link
.
I'm thinking that if the  
mrvax : 4/17/2016 2:47 pm : link
Giant's doctors clear Jack medically and then down the line the knee proves to be no good, Reese will have a scapegoat.

Go get 'em, Jerry.
Great  
dust_bowl : 4/17/2016 2:53 pm : link
Work Sy......
Georgia had the #1 pass defense? You know why KWALL?  
BigBlueCane : 4/17/2016 3:35 pm : link
Because they had the #42 rushing defense and EVERYONE ran on them.

And the SEC in general had a miserable year as far as QB play was concerned.

This isn't rocket science, watch the games and count the number of times you hear Floyd's name.

He's a soft, overrated player that will be a bust in the NFL.
Sy - Sua Cravens  
Big_Pete : 4/17/2016 4:22 pm : link
Sy, I didn't get any impression on how well you think Cravens fits into what you expect to see from the Giants defence this year? From your article, I suspect you are not quite sure.

How does he fit with how we use J.T Thomas and Casillas?

RE: Sy - Sua Cravens  
Sy'56 : 4/17/2016 5:41 pm : link
In comment 12906589 Big_Pete said:
Quote:
Sy, I didn't get any impression on how well you think Cravens fits into what you expect to see from the Giants defence this year? From your article, I suspect you are not quite sure.

How does he fit with how we use J.T Thomas and Casillas?


I don't think that is his ideal spot. In all honesty Cravens may not be a great fit here because of what NYG likes to do with Landon Collins.
What about Scooby Wright?  
jeff57 : 4/17/2016 7:31 pm : link
.
Sy: I get confused by the Giants' strong side, weak side designation  
Ivan15 : 4/17/2016 7:42 pm : link
When you say strong side, you mean the LB who plays over the TE, correct?

RE: What about Scooby Wright?  
Sy'56 : 4/17/2016 7:48 pm : link
In comment 12906770 jeff57 said:
Quote:
.


He's down the list for me. I've never been high on him.
Thanks Shelly - lots of food for thought  
Jay in Toronto : 4/17/2016 8:09 pm : link
What cost Schoebert a higher grade in your thinking?
Lol predictive text  
Jay in Toronto : 4/17/2016 8:10 pm : link
Sy maybe that's your alter ego?
RE: Thanks Shelly - lots of food for thought  
Sy'56 : 4/17/2016 8:26 pm : link
In comment 12906807 Jay in Toronto said:
Quote:
What cost Schoebert a higher grade in your thinking?


He isn't a natural guy in coverage and isn't a standout pass rusher when it comes to NFL potential. Solid player though. Very solid.
RE: What about Scooby Wright?  
Big_Pete : 4/17/2016 8:55 pm : link
In comment 12906770 jeff57 said:
Quote:
.


Very good points, thank you for all your great work
Sy'56  
Marty866b : 4/17/2016 9:00 pm : link
I am not that familiar with your grading scale. Is an 81 worthy of a top 10 pick? If not, where does an 81 rank?
RE: Floyd  
Gmen108021 : 4/17/2016 9:03 pm : link
In comment 12906318 stretch234 said:
Quote:
Where does Witten destroy the Giants - the middle. Where do the Eagles TE's destroy the Giants - the middle. Where does every teams TE destroy the Giants - the middle. Unless they are upgrading the MLB position, nothing will change.


i dont think you understand the concept of defense. just because they are a middle linebacker doesnt always mean they stand in the middle of the field lol. in man coverage floyd would cover witten even if he goes over the middle
...  
Gmen108021 : 4/17/2016 9:07 pm : link
floyd wont be a bust.
jack is 100% the pick if there at 10 IMO its a no brainer, as long as your docs check him out and he is fine. jack can play all three LBer spots. he is a 3 down backer who can cover, doesnt miss tackles, and plays angry
RE: Sy'56  
Sy'56 : 4/17/2016 9:11 pm : link
In comment 12906870 Marty866b said:
Quote:
I am not that familiar with your grading scale. Is an 81 worthy of a top 10 pick? If not, where does an 81 rank?


Top 10 is usually 85 and above.

80+ is first rounder.
Thanks Sy  
Marty866b : 4/17/2016 9:28 pm : link
So in your opinion, Floyd at #10 is a reach. That would be correct,right?
RE: Thanks Sy  
Sy'56 : 4/17/2016 9:43 pm : link
In comment 12906916 Marty866b said:
Quote:
So in your opinion, Floyd at #10 is a reach. That would be correct,right?


100%. He will not be in my thoughts when thinking about who I think NYG should take. I do believe Reese will like him though,
It's  
Jon in NYC : 4/17/2016 11:26 pm : link
strange to me that so many people are anti Floyd when he brings the two things the Giants needed most last year: Ability to cover the TE and get to the QB.
Jon in NYC  
Marty866b : 4/17/2016 11:59 pm : link
It's really not so strange that so many posters,including myself, aren't enamored with Floyd. He's a project who has played at a weight 15-20 pounds lighter then he is today but still has the body of a wide receiver. He has NEVER been stout at the point of attack and for all his acclaim as a great pass rusher he only had 17 career sacks in college. Some folks claim it was the defensive system in college that held him back? He's also 24 years old. Also, for various reasons he didn't finish his workout at the combine or his pro day. IMO,too many questions to be selected at #10
RE: Jon in NYC  
Jon in NYC : 4/18/2016 12:04 am : link
In comment 12907061 Marty866b said:
Quote:
It's really not so strange that so many posters,including myself, aren't enamored with Floyd. He's a project who has played at a weight 15-20 pounds lighter then he is today but still has the body of a wide receiver. He has NEVER been stout at the point of attack and for all his acclaim as a great pass rusher he only had 17 career sacks in college. Some folks claim it was the defensive system in college that held him back? He's also 24 years old. Also, for various reasons he didn't finish his workout at the combine or his pro day. IMO,too many questions to be selected at #10


It wasn't the system, he was playing MLB. It's just hard to put up major sack numbers that way.

I agree, he probably is pushed off the ball and will not be a major force as a tackler. But he fills two big needs and would make plays.
Great stuff as always, Sy  
Anakim : 4/18/2016 2:16 am : link
Interesting take on De'Vondre Campbell. I never saw him play (the times I watched Minnesota I focused on Eric Murray), but from what I read about him, he seems to be an excellent athlete but not a really good football player. I read somewhere that he severely lacks instincts and is slow to diagnose. Still, based on your take on him, he sounds very intriguing.


I'm higher on Travis Feeney than you are. If he stays healthy, I think he has starting potential in either a 4-3 or 3-4.
but he doesn't fill needs or make plays  
BigBlueCane : 4/18/2016 4:57 am : link
thats the point we've been trying to hammer home with you.

If he did either, he would been a star on the Collegiate level.

He wasn't because he didn't.
Jack vs Donald  
212BigBlue : 4/18/2016 7:47 am : link
Tremendous help and breakdown Sy. I wanted to see if you have a higher conviction on Jack than you did on Aaron Donald. If so, what do the Giants need to give up to secure the draft slot to select him?
RE: but he doesn't fill needs or make plays  
Jon in NYC : 4/18/2016 8:16 am : link
In comment 12907105 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
thats the point we've been trying to hammer home with you.

If he did either, he would been a star on the Collegiate level.

He wasn't because he didn't.


You don't think he can cover and get to the QB? Or that those are needs?
I've seen enough Giants football over the past 10 seasons  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/18/2016 8:58 am : link
to not believe they will take that LB this high.

I'll believe it when and if Floyd is holding up a blue jersey, and not a moment before.
RE: Jack vs Donald  
Sy'56 : 4/18/2016 11:22 am : link
In comment 12907128 212BigBlue said:
Quote:
Tremendous help and breakdown Sy. I wanted to see if you have a higher conviction on Jack than you did on Aaron Donald. If so, what do the Giants need to give up to secure the draft slot to select him?


I am more confident about Jack that I was about Donald pending the knee.

If NYG really wants Jack, I would think to ultimately secure him they need to somehow get in front of JAC. Not sure that is doable.
Sy : Deeon jones at safety?  
Reale01 : 4/18/2016 1:24 pm : link
Do you think he could play as a big safety? Like a Cam Chanceller type role.
No Jon I do not  
BigBlueCane : 4/18/2016 2:32 pm : link
he had 4.5 sacks on the year and the SEC in general had some of the worst QB play in recent memory. Now it could be said, he didn't have as many opportunities due to teams running the ball down Georgia's throat but that doesn't help Floyd's case either because it means he's not going to help against the run.

As far as coverage skills go, the NFL rule changes have made it all but impossible for anyone to be a true 'cover'- position. Just sneezing on a receiver warrants a flag nowadays. See also why Cornerbacks have become devalued and why Safeties are crucial nowadays.

A LB needs to be a thumper, a sure tackler or an amazing pass rusher. Floyd is none of those things. Period.
Jack available at 6, what would be the cost to go from 10-6  
Thegratefulhead : 4/18/2016 2:50 pm : link
If Jack were available at 6 what do you think the cost would be to go from 10 to 6?
Cost  
Thegratefulhead : 4/18/2016 2:54 pm : link
I would trade our 1st 3rd and 4th for their 1st IF Jack were available
trading up for a guy whose knee can blow up at any moment  
Victor in CT : 4/18/2016 3:02 pm : link
is insane.
couple points  
Torrag : 4/18/2016 3:23 pm : link
None of us know the Giants medical evaluation on Jack...if it's bad or hazy they probably aren't drafting him...that's the unfortunate reality for a team with major defensive needs.

I have Deion Jones in several of my mock drafts. He's a huge upside prospect that may be gettable at a very reasonable value draft pick...say Round 3.
RE: No Jon I do not  
Gmen108021 : 4/18/2016 3:24 pm : link
In comment 12908024 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
he had 4.5 sacks on the year and the SEC in general had some of the worst QB play in recent memory. Now it could be said, he didn't have as many opportunities due to teams running the ball down Georgia's throat but that doesn't help Floyd's case either because it means he's not going to help against the run.

As far as coverage skills go, the NFL rule changes have made it all but impossible for anyone to be a true 'cover'- position. Just sneezing on a receiver warrants a flag nowadays. See also why Cornerbacks have become devalued and why Safeties are crucial nowadays.

A LB needs to be a thumper, a sure tackler or an amazing pass rusher. Floyd is none of those things. Period.


he isnt a good pass rusher? since when does poor QB play automatically lead to sacks? i love how you say period at the end as if your word holds more weight than some random clown on the street corner spewing garbage. its amazing too how MOST analysts have him rated as a first round pick but when you talk its oh he stinks automatically a bust etc. the guy can cover PERIOD. flags yea we get it, but you still need someone to consistently line up against a TE and cover down the field something we havent had in forever. TEs rip us a part for a reason, its not a coincidence. also as a pass rusher he has a tremendous first step, something that really isnt teachable. he may not be amazing as a run stopper but you act like he has one arm. the guy is going to be a soilid player in the NFL with a HIGH ceiling and a HIGH floor, he wont be a bust, will he be worthy of 10? maybe maybe not time will tell that, but he isnt as garbage as you describe. he is an SEC defender with good speed who can cover, plays long, is versatile and can rush the passer.
Wrong again  
BigBlueCane : 4/18/2016 4:56 pm : link
He is not a good player nor he is a threat to do anything but be a bump on the bench.

Go and actually watch the games, not the video cut-ups, not the highlights or lowlights. Watch the actual games.

Floyd is a non-factor.
RE: Wrong again  
Gmen108021 : 4/18/2016 5:05 pm : link
In comment 12908304 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
He is not a good player nor he is a threat to do anything but be a bump on the bench.

Go and actually watch the games, not the video cut-ups, not the highlights or lowlights. Watch the actual games.

Floyd is a non-factor.


i have watched the games not the highlights. i think if you put on games of other LBers you would see similar production. most people dont realize the length at which players dont have their name called. but tbh i didnt even get that from floyd, i felt he was mentioned often. that being said the talent level of a player is about the raw ability. he was put all over the field at georgia, once he has a set role and can focus on that he will be good
Floyd is not a good  
XBRONX : 4/18/2016 6:08 pm : link
football player? More like you are a bad judge of talent.
Jack  
stretch234 : 4/18/2016 6:45 pm : link
Outside of the major injury questions, is there any certainty that he is an NFL MLB.

If he is not, then you have an injury risk, OLB who does not rush the passer, who happens to be a great athlete.

That is not the type of player you spend the 10th pick on. If he is a pass rusher - no issue. If he is a MLB - no issue. If he is not those, you can't take him at 10

As a LB and LB coach for 20 years  
Peppers : 4/18/2016 6:51 pm : link
I love digging into the backers.

I like Goodson and Perry and my sleeper pick is Will Ratelle from North Dakota.

RE: Wrong again  
Jon in NYC : 4/18/2016 6:55 pm : link
In comment 12908304 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
He is not a good player nor he is a threat to do anything but be a bump on the bench.

Go and actually watch the games, not the video cut-ups, not the highlights or lowlights. Watch the actual games.

Floyd is a non-factor.


It's certainly possible I'm wrong, and I'm not going to sit here and claim that I've watched any Georgia football. But his profile certainly suggests someone that would pique the Giants' interest. As I mentioned earlier, someone who can cover TEs and get to the QB is desperately needed.
RE: Jack  
Gmen108021 : 4/18/2016 7:09 pm : link
In comment 12908472 stretch234 said:
Quote:
Outside of the major injury questions, is there any certainty that he is an NFL MLB.

If he is not, then you have an injury risk, OLB who does not rush the passer, who happens to be a great athlete.

That is not the type of player you spend the 10th pick on. If he is a pass rusher - no issue. If he is a MLB - no issue. If he is not those, you can't take him at 10


jack can play all three LBer positions and maybe even SS, has proven to be a solid pass rusher. he is a great athlete, injury concerns will keep him and jaylon smith from BOTH being top 5 picks
Goodson  
Marty866b : 4/18/2016 7:37 pm : link
This guy is a very good prospect and could fill the middle for us for many years. We might be able to grab him in the 4th-5th round area.
again you don't draft a LB #10 overall whose's strengthes  
BigBlueCane : 5:26 am : link
are his ability to 'cover receivers'.

You draft a LB to be a thumper and an intimidating presence. Floyd is neither of those things.
Another past Giants LB who's best skill was his ability to run  
was the Jacquian Williams experiment.

Kevin Patrick, South Florida's defensive tackles coach, remembers the first time he saw Williams on a recruiting trip to Fort Scott three years ago.

"This is a skinny kid who can run," Patrick recalled of his first impression of Williams. Williams didn't even want to be subbed out for a cornerback in nickel packages, begging to cover receivers.

"I have never seen a kid that loves to run as much as that kid," Snyder said. "He loves to run."


Obviously floyd is a much more experienced player, but a gangly tall string bean who scouts say desperately needs to live in the weight room is no top 10 pick to me.
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