Peter Schrager & #8207;@PSchrags
Rumor around the league is that a Redskins- Josh Norman deal could be done by end of business Friday. And it'll be a big $ one. @NFLonFOX
I'd prefer he (and Ramsey in Dallas) didn't come to our Division. It just makes it that much harder for us.
No idea what game you were watching, if OBJ catches the bomb a few minutes into the game that he completely burned Norman on he has 175 yard day and 2 TDs while melting down.
I'd prefer he (and Ramsey in Dallas) didn't come to our Division. It just makes it that much harder for us.
No idea what game you were watching, if OBJ catches the bomb a few minutes into the game that he completely burned Norman on he has 175 yard day and 2 TDs while melting down.
If we would have landed Norman, it would be great, but since it is Washington it is a joke. Is that the thoughtful absolute thinking here. OK. I guess since we signed 3 free agents we have Washington beat, or is it Ok for us to do but when they do it then it is different? Very intelligent.
If we would have landed Norman, it would be great, but since it is Washington it is a joke. Is that the thoughtful absolute thinking here. OK. I guess since we signed 3 free agents we have Washington beat, or is it Ok for us to do but when they do it then it is different? Very intelligent.
The majority of responses I've have been against signing Norman... not sure what you have been seeing
If we would have landed Norman, it would be great, but since it is Washington it is a joke. Is that the thoughtful absolute thinking here. OK. I guess since we signed 3 free agents we have Washington beat, or is it Ok for us to do but when they do it then it is different? Very intelligent.
Are you aware that there are hundreds of people posting on BBI with differing opinions?
This idea that "BBI" says this and then "BBI" says that is so juvenile.
There's no denying he let Carolina get in his head and it really took him off his game. Beckham keeps his cool and he'll own Norman the way he should have this past season. Greg Cosell isnt some NFL Network blowhard talking head, he's the senior producer for NFL Films and his work is highly regarded. This is a direct quote from his breakdown of all the plays Beckham was covered by Norman...
Quote:
Norman did match up to Beckham...and in fact, Beckham killed him. I watched every play and I studied it hard because I knew it would be a topic of conversation. Beckham was beaten mentally...but physically, its not even close. Norman cant cover Beckham.
Combine that with Beckham's track record against Washington and he ought to be champing at the bit. From PFTs piece yesterday on Culliver's comments Re:Beckham complaining to refs...f
Quote:
Whatever Beckham has done against Washington, its working. Last year, he had 16 catches for 221 yards and two touchdowns in a pair of games against Washington. As a rookie in 2014, he faced Washington once, with 12 catches for 143 yards and three touchdowns.
Thats a total, in three career games, of 28 catches, 364 yards, and five touchdowns.
Also looking forward to seeing Norman when he's not playing behind
one of the best front 7s in the league. One of the best overall defenses in the league, period, actually. Some analysts have already become critics of Norman's as well as WRs like Julio Jones and Demaryus Thomas. They've noted that Norman gets a lot of help over the top and in the Cosell piece I referenced earlier he states Norman rarely plays on an island.
But he's a talented guy. I'm sure he'll do just as well as Greg Hardy when he left Carolina...
I don't think he will be worth the money it would take
steve in ky : 9:02 pm : link : reply
Take him away from that defense and I doubt he plays as dominate as he did with the Panthers.
Norman doesn't need Carolina. Why Do you think he did what he did, risking being cut? He Did Very Well Defending Beckham. Beckham will probably get the best of him when they face off though!
If we would have landed Norman, it would be great, but since it is Washington it is a joke. Is that the thoughtful absolute thinking here. OK. I guess since we signed 3 free agents we have Washington beat, or is it Ok for us to do but when they do it then it is different? Very intelligent.
Are you aware that there are hundreds of people posting on BBI with differing opinions?
This idea that "BBI" says this and then "BBI" says that is so juvenile.
Norman doesn't need Carolina. Why Do you think he did what he did, risking being cut? He Did Very Well Defending Beckham. Beckham will probably get the best of him when they face off though!
Beckham killed Norman. Again not my words, but the words of Greg Cosell. "He can't cover him". Obviously Beckham was beaten mentally but henstill went for 6/76/1 on the day and would've gone 7/152/2 had he not let Cwrolina in his head and caught a ball that he does 99out of 100 times. Let's see how he does without a top 3 defense and the best front 7 in football.
Glad everyone's so excited the defending division champ
might be landing the best corner in the NFL: a guy who outplayed our best player and got in his head
Sounds awesome!
Thats a bit dramatic. The Skins won the division by default because everyone else sucked, I don't think anyone actually views them as a threat.
Second, and most importantly, how can you not want to see OBJ torch Norman with hopefully a level head? As JRud said, if he catches that TD in the first quarter, he has a monster game. Norman cannot cover him, period, and I cant wait to see it.
Norman doesn't need Carolina. Why Do you think he did what he did, risking being cut? He Did Very Well Defending Beckham. Beckham will probably get the best of him when they face off though!
Before last season, Norman was considered an average corner. He wasn't even the #1 corner on his own team. Reminds me when Webster went from draft bust to shut down corner to okay CB. I don't even bother to rank these guys anymore because it is so fluid with them. Butler is now called a shutdown corner up in NE. I'm waiting for Bill to peddle him off on some sucker.
might be landing the best corner in the NFL: a guy who outplayed our best player and got in his head
Sounds awesome!
C'mon Mike. I get to watch all the Carolina games done here. Norman is far from the best corner in the NFL. They do have 2 of the best cover linebackers in the league which allowed for Norman to only be concerned from the numbers to the sidelines...and he usually had safety help over the top. He's a good corner but not nearly the best. I think Beckham will own him each time they play.
Yes, they've strengthened their defense, they are better than they were
No, they've committed precious "Revis" type cap to a player who is not "Revis-like". If it's a one year deal and there were all no reasonable alternatives, then it's a win for them. If it's a longer deal it's probably going to hamstring them.
Second, and most importantly, how can you not want to see OBJ torch Norman with hopefully a level head? As JRud said, if he catches that TD in the first quarter, he has a monster game. Norman cannot cover him, period, and I cant wait to see it.
Norman can't cover him? Period? This is the stuff that gets message boards made fun of on other team's message boards.
I'm by no means afraid of him coming to Washington and I think it would be a blast watching these two compete. I'd imagine they both would get the better of each other at a fairy even rate.
But I'm sorry. The manaufactured bravado on this thread is embarrassing. This would by no means be BENEFICIAL for the Giants. Jesus Christ.
That a division rival paying (say) $15m per year with huge guaranteed money for a really good, but not great or game-changing CB is a positive development.
Maybe nothing to high five and celebrate about, but I probably like it for the Giants more than I dislike it.
That a division rival paying (say) $15m per year with huge guaranteed money for a really good, but not great or game-changing CB is a positive development.
Maybe nothing to high five and celebrate about, but I probably like it for the Giants more than I dislike it.
I wouldn't make that argument personally because he's that good, but it absolutely would be a reasonable stance, you're 100% right. I'm referring to the "Yes! Awesome! OBJ OWNS him!" people.
Yeah count me as one of those "crazy" guys who doesn't look forward
To Norman playing beckham twice a year. Maybe beckham could get suspended twice this season, great stuff for the Giants. Norman might not be a top 10 corner, he is still an improvement for Washington and lived inside beckham's head for an entire game.
Norman might be able to throw Odell off his game mentally but he sure as hell can't cover him 1 on 1. The guy is a good corner, he's not an elite corner. Beckham is an elite WR.
he HAS to keep his head. I think Norman is over-rated anyway. He's only done it 1 year and with a ferocious DLine casuing havoc in front of him too. Time will tell, but chemistry, scheme and talent on Defense will make a difference for him.
That Norman shouldn't wanna face Odell twice a year because dramatics aside he exposed allot of his weaknesses in that game and was actually getting the better of him talking strictly football not the suspension stuff.
That Norman shouldn't wanna face Odell twice a year because dramatics aside he exposed allot of his weaknesses in that game and was actually getting the better of him talking strictly football not the suspension stuff.
Anyone who saw past the theatrics and nonsense in that game saw that Norman couldn't cover Beckham. When all was said and done, he still got burned for a TD late in the game. He's lucky he wasn't burned for 2.. maybe more... because Odell spent half the game throwing himself at Norman's head rather than running his routes.
It won't be that way next time. Beckham won't make the same mistake twice.
because he isn't close to being the best CB in the game, yet he wants to get paid like it. Despite the hype last year, he pretty much built up his reputation based on the first few games of the year and then used the media to hype up his play. He didn't even grade out as the team's best CB.
The past two months has been the "Josh Norman Show" in Charlotte. He's been yapping constantly about how he ranks with all time greats, even compiling his own list where he's the 5th best CB ever - tied with Revis. He's threatening not to participate in minicamp or any workouts. He's saying he's the best player on the team (which obviously rankles the others), and he continues to talk about a feud with OBJ.
But inside the Panthers organization, he viewed him as dispensible, especially after the way he was exposed in a couple of late season games, Atlanta being one of them. They are concerned that he's too focused on image instead of his play. also, a lot of the football people realize Norman is a system player. He had been inconsistent, if not borderline poor in the years preceding 2015 and he's able to play in a system where he only has responsibility for a limited area of the field.
People who parrot the idea he's an elite corner are simply buying into hype. Hype his own team ignored.
he is not as good as he thinks he is. He will be exposed leaving Carolina's great defense. He will also chew up a ton of their cap space for the next few years and will be 29 in December so it is not like he is entering his prime.
Plenty of people have said he's a product of the defensive scheme
forgetting that it wasn't just Norman who got into OBJ's head...it was the entire Panthers team before and during the game with the bat nonsense, etc. If he does go to Washington, it will be an entirely different scenario and the circumstances will be different when they face each other. Given what happened last year and the fact that Washington is a division rival...I fully expect Mac, Eli, Cruz and whomever to deal with any possible theatrics well in advance. Also, the refs will certainly be on high alert for any bullshit like the body slam from the first play. From purely a football perspective I have no doubt whatsoever that OBJ is superior...he's a very good corner but OBJ deals with that all the time...no worries at all.
If he does that, he'll win that battle every time. Josh Norman cannot physically match up with him, which is why he had to resort to bush league head games. It's unfortunate that OBJ fell into that trap last year, but I'm confident that he won't be dense enough to make that same mistake twice. He'll use his play to stick it to Norman next year.
but if he catches the first TD, and Eli doesn't get hit/under pressure on the one bomb that Beckham completely embarrased Norman on, he probably has something like 200 and 3 TD in that game. Norman is a good corner but Beckham will be fine against him.
There is ample evidence to suggest that Norman is overrated
Much more, in fact, than to suggest is is elite - or even the best in the game which seems to be an opinion shared only by Mike in LB and Norman himself.
The Panthers know his game better than any of us, and they don't want to pay him elite CB money. He will likely make Washington better because he is a good CB. But if they pay him like an elite CB it is good for the Giants because it is a bad use of their limited resources. That is why Giants fans are happy about it. That and because many of us saw the same thing that Greg Cosell and Herm Edwards (a guy who knows CB play) saw - that one on one, Norman really struggled when matched up against OBJ.
because he isn't close to being the best CB in the game, yet he wants to get paid like it. Despite the hype last year, he pretty much built up his reputation based on the first few games of the year and then used the media to hype up his play. He didn't even grade out as the team's best CB.
The past two months has been the "Josh Norman Show" in Charlotte. He's been yapping constantly about how he ranks with all time greats, even compiling his own list where he's the 5th best CB ever - tied with Revis. He's threatening not to participate in minicamp or any workouts. He's saying he's the best player on the team (which obviously rankles the others), and he continues to talk about a feud with OBJ.
But inside the Panthers organization, he viewed him as dispensible, especially after the way he was exposed in a couple of late season games, Atlanta being one of them. They are concerned that he's too focused on image instead of his play. also, a lot of the football people realize Norman is a system player. He had been inconsistent, if not borderline poor in the years preceding 2015 and he's able to play in a system where he only has responsibility for a limited area of the field.
People who parrot the idea he's an elite corner are simply buying into hype. Hype his own team ignored.
Good inside information. Thanks. I also agree that Beckham got the better of Norman in their game last year. Beckham just dropped too many balls. He was his own worst enemy. Norman can play, but hes not worth $14M. Gettleman is doing the smart thing by letting him go.
is an article that says "Panthers Betting Jettisoning of Norman is Addition by Subtraction".
Gettleman has been pretty open that he believes Norman is hurting the team chemistry and is a distraction. He also claims that Norman and his agent won't budge off of wanting $16M per year and they don't believe he's worth anything close to that. Ringing Endorsement - ( New Window )
IMO Gettleman should have waited until after the draft. They obviously thought he was a good player or they would not have franchised him in the first place. They also could have tried to trade him, which I havent heard any rumors of either. There has to be more to the story than just wanting big money. If not than this is a mistake for Carolina. I truly believe they could have gotten draft picks for his rights.
As for the Redskins getting him it doesnt bother me. I don't think he is a #1 CB. If they are bringing him in to be that guy then its no big deal for us. He is not a stud CB. If the Giants signed him and kept DRC it would have been a nice move but rumors were that we would sign Norman and dump DRC which would have been a downgrade for us, DRC is much better than Norman imo. I live in Carolina and have watched a lot of both of them and its not even close imo.
I don't think a team was going to give up picks AND have to pay him
Which is more likely, they quietly tried to trade him once it became clear they couldn't get a deal done, or they think he's such a problem that they would rather get zero compensation for getting rid of him?
Norman sucked balls against us. If his job is to cover OBJ, he didnt. I am not going to give credit to a guy because OBJ dropped a TD and had a mental let down. Norman's job is to cover the best guys in the game, and he did not do that - as evidence by many play break downs and sites on the web.
because of unrealistic contract demands or adverse effect on team chemistry but Carolina wouldn't have tagged him in the first place if they didn't think he was at least an above-average player.
more to this situation than we know; it just doesnt logical to suddenly drop the tag, 10 days b4 draft.
And I dont trust Jerry Richardson and his teams methods. If JN is that good, but they still make the drop move, then either they have his replacement already, or they will make a big move to get Ramsey or other top CB.
SD said they are already getting calls for the #3 and are open to moving down; I would think Panthers would include players and the 31/30 and other picks.
more to this situation than we know; it just doesnt logical to suddenly drop the tag, 10 days b4 draft.
And I dont trust Jerry Richardson and his teams methods. If JN is that good, but they still make the drop move, then either they have his replacement already, or they will make a big move to get Ramsey or other top CB.
SD said they are already getting calls for the #3 and are open to moving down; I would think Panthers would include players and the 31/30 and other picks.
since he looks like a civil war era villain, but I think it's more Gettleman than Richardson. And Gettleman has demonstrated the conservative approach you'd expect from a Giants executive.
With all due respect, your first comment about the small sample size says it all. I won't debate who won the battle in that game. I think most people would say Norman did, but no matter who did, it was one game.
The bottom line is it's not beneficial to the Giants that our most important player could be going up against perhaps the best corner in the game. It's entertaining. I welcome it. I'll be tuned in more intently and will enjoy it more if Norman is here, but it's just crazy to look at this potential signing and say "the Giants' situation got better today."
to it. There are rumblings of a possible suspension, but most of the beat guys are saying it has just been a culmination of Josh Norman spending the past few months putting all the attention on himself and it is causing issues.
He's pretty much been on a lone wolf conquest to tell everyone how great he is, to openly dismiss the chances of attending minicamp or taking part in voluntary workouts and keeps telling reporters he's the best player on the team and everyone in the organization has had enough. Supposedly Rivera had a talk with him about it last week and Norman brushed it off and made a comment about paying him like the all time great he is, which apparently didn't sit too well with the coach.
Even at their press conference the other day, Gettleman sounded like a guy who was pushed to where he had no choice. Norman is 28 and is likely entering his last contract, he's demanding $16M per year, and he's causing division in the locker room. Gettleman said "We wish Josh the best, but at this time, the price of keeping him is too high".
And Gettleman is a guy who got rid of Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams at similar points in their careers, and both were more established as stars than Norman. He's taking the very calculated approach that it is better to get rid of somebody before they hit the wall then to pay them and watch them hit it. There pluses and minuses to that, as Smith and Williams have still bee productive, but it is hard to say he's made mistakes in doing that. It is a strategy Giants fans have applauded the Eagles for doing.
BB56 - Gettleman is not afraid to let go of fan favorites
if the overall composition of the team will be better. He puts the salary cap money where he thinks it will have most value. He has let Steve Smith, DeAngelo Williams and Josh Norman go in consecutive years.
A lot of other GMs wouldn't have the guts to do that.
In comment 12915547 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
if the overall composition of the team will be better. He puts the salary cap money where he thinks it will have most value. He has let Steve Smith, DeAngelo Williams and Josh Norman go in consecutive years.
A lot of other GMs wouldn't have the guts to do that.
Peter, but neither is Reese in general. Fan favorites Osi, Tuck, Cofield et al were let go as well
yes both players were older, but both were up to resign at contracts expected to outcost their performance.
Norman is 28, at a position where players over 30 start to slow down. Smith was an exception, but since leaving the team, he's had decent production and a few critical injuries.
To pay Norman $16M per year when they believe he is a product of the scheme doesn't sound like a great investment.
I wasn't saying I liked him better than reese (or not)
You can argue the merits of 1 vs. 3 or 2 vs. 5 all you want. But if you don't think that Josh Norman is in the conversation for best corner in the league, you either don't watch him play or are just simply being argumentative for the sake of fighting on a message board. There's not a person on the planet who wouldn't put him top 5.
But I hate even going down that rabbit hole with you guys. It just shows that the people disputing this on this thread (not all of BBI) aren't even understanding the fundamental argument at play. If you want to completely miss the point and challenge Josh Norman being the best corner in football (which you may be correct on) I'm not going to waste my time. That is not the discussion at hand.
The simple... very simple... so simple... point is that celebrating the Giants' situation from an Xs and Os perspective because a division rival may land ONE OF the best corners in the game, just sounds ridiculous, and again, is the type of thing that'll get this thread linked to on another fan board mocking us for being big blue idiots.
PFF isn't my bible, but here's some fun stuff just to show how outlandish it is to vehemently protest Norman being the best. There is a reason the entire fucking NFL world was so excited for that ODB vs Norman matchup. It was (arguably) the best vs. the best. It was must see TV.
yes both players were older, but both were up to resign at contracts expected to outcost their performance.
Norman is 28, at a position where players over 30 start to slow down. Smith was an exception, but since leaving the team, he's had decent production and a few critical injuries.
To pay Norman $16M per year when they believe he is a product of the scheme doesn't sound like a great investment.
there are many who wouldnt put him in the top 5. Norman started the year off on fire with INTs and pick 6s, but dramatically cooled off. Julio and OBJ both have stated how overrated he is.
Good players who play on great defenses tend to get overrated.
There's not a person on the planet who wouldn't put him top 5
All of the talk about Norman's greatness is really stemming from one year - last year. On a team that was 15-1.
The rankings from 2014 and 2013 would be far less favorable for Norman and CB really is a position you want to see a guy excel at over several years, not a short-term blip.
So Buffalo has two of the three best CB's in football yet somehow they were basically bottom 3rd of the league in pass defense last year. Makes sense.
Josh Norman played in a system where he was rarely left alone 1 on 1, had one of the best all around MIKE's in the sport in front of him as well as an outstanding front 7. It was clear as day that he was unable to handle Beckham from a talent standpoint. He got under his skin and threw him off his game.. cool. Had nothing to do with football ability. But I guess PFF is better than using your eyes.
but if a team is willing to make him the highest paid CB, then thats just silly.
All I know is if he sings with Washington, I am not going to sit here and say "well they have Josh Norman, its going to be tough to throw the ball against them." OBJ proved he can get open against him at will.... now he just has to finish plays.
Giving Norman long term, high money contracts is usually the sign of overspending and hurting your team's future. For the Redskins, its par for the course.
RE: I can't help but think of the Giants signed him so many here
Would have loved the signing. Even if the guy is a top 20 corner it is a divisional opponent improving.
And it's this idea that OBJ owns him. So childish. Neither owns either. That was a fucking battle and it'd be more of the same, win some lose some, should Norman join Washington.
RE: I can't help but think of the Giants signed him so many here
Would have loved the signing. Even if the guy is a top 20 corner it is a divisional opponent improving.
I, for one, would loathe the signing. Not that he doesnt make us better -e he may. But with DRC/Jenkins - we have needs elsewhere. Plus he is already 28 and will want 5-6 years. No thanks!
him coming to the division a lot like I did with Asamonga, because the salary cap implications outweigh the expected production, IMO.
Think about it, you have a guy who think he's the best player in the league, eating up a significant portion of the cap and is most likely a product of the system he's in.
You have Giants fans criticizing the signing of Jenkins and yet we had the money to spend and are penciling him in as a #2. Norman becomes the man, and paid very much like it.
You're arguing the financial aspect there. Very reasonable. But not to beat a dead horse but my argument was really just focused on those saying that the simple addition of Norman to the Skins is good for us and OBJ is better off now. The BBI clown car then ran off debating me on how good Norman is. Bottom line is he is damn good.
him coming to the division a lot like I did with Asamonga, because the salary cap implications outweigh the expected production, IMO.
Think about it, you have a guy who think he's the best player in the league, eating up a significant portion of the cap and is most likely a product of the system he's in.
You have Giants fans criticizing the signing of Jenkins and yet we had the money to spend and are penciling him in as a #2. Norman becomes the man, and paid very much like it.
Asomugha bastid. I memorized this because he's married to "Olivia Pope."
It's a capped sport. If the Redskins want to pay elite money to a non elite corner, that's fine. I personally am just looking forward to seeing Beckham match up with him again.
RE: RE: I can't help but think of the Giants signed him so many here
And it's this idea that OBJ owns him. So childish. Neither owns either. That was a fucking battle and it'd be more of the same, win some lose some, should Norman join Washington.
Again - the battle that OBJ lost was mental/emotional. Josh Norman physically cannot matchup with Beckham one on one. If you don't believe any of us on the subject, why don't you listen to Greg Cosell or Herm Edwards?
Unless you think Beckham is truly dumb as a rock and will continue to let Norman get in his head, that matchup is a clear win for the Giants.
I agree this is classic Washington redskins but the guy currently is a
Good player at the absolute bare minimum. So we can say for that price or that long it's likely stupid but the redskins likely are better for having him and if he somehow plays well long term it could be bad for the Giants. The only honest statement I think that is legit is saying we are happy they overpaid for a good player likely near the peak or end of his career.
The false bravado about being jacked that Beckham owns this guy and will embarrass him is just that.
It doesn't matter who Bekcham lines up against, we all know he is the best, but this guy is still better than whoever the hell was playing cornerback for the redskins.
It's a capped sport. If the Redskins want to pay elite money to a non elite corner, that's fine. I personally am just looking forward to seeing Beckham match up with him again.
You're arguing the financial aspect there. Very reasonable. But not to beat a dead horse but my argument was really just focused on those saying that the simple addition of Norman to the Skins is good for us and OBJ is better off now. The BBI clown car then ran off debating me on how good Norman is. Bottom line is he is damn good.
I dont know if he is damn good, cause again I think being surrounded with a lot of talent helps players. Lets put it this way..... if he and DRC changed teams last year - are the Panthers that much worse and are we that much better? I dont know....
and cmon - why can't you acknowledge he played on a loaded D?
And it's this idea that OBJ owns him. So childish. Neither owns either. That was a fucking battle and it'd be more of the same, win some lose some, should Norman join Washington.
Again - the battle that OBJ lost was mental/emotional. Josh Norman physically cannot matchup with Beckham one on one. If you don't believe any of us on the subject, why don't you listen to Greg Cosell or Herm Edwards?
Unless you think Beckham is truly dumb as a rock and will continue to let Norman get in his head, that matchup is a clear win for the Giants.
It's not that I don't believe you. I just don't agree. I think they are two of the best in the game. I think OBJ can school Norman and I think Norman can shut down OBJ.
It's a capped sport. If the Redskins want to pay elite money to a non elite corner, that's fine. I personally am just looking forward to seeing Beckham match up with him again.
Assuming he doesn't get into his head again
Beckham isn't a dumb dude. He's not going to let that happen again.
So Cosell is wrong when he says Norman couldn't cover Beckham?
And it's this idea that OBJ owns him. So childish. Neither owns either. That was a fucking battle and it'd be more of the same, win some lose some, should Norman join Washington.
Again - the battle that OBJ lost was mental/emotional. Josh Norman physically cannot matchup with Beckham one on one. If you don't believe any of us on the subject, why don't you listen to Greg Cosell or Herm Edwards?
Unless you think Beckham is truly dumb as a rock and will continue to let Norman get in his head, that matchup is a clear win for the Giants.
It's not that I don't believe you. I just don't agree. I think they are two of the best in the game. I think OBJ can school Norman and I think Norman can shut down OBJ.
This really isn't an outrageous take.
Norman at no point in that game proved he could "shut down" OBJ. He proved he could piss OBJ off and get in his head but he sure as hell couldn't stop him from getting open when Odell ran his routes.
RE: So Cosell is wrong when he says Norman couldn't cover Beckham?
Yes, Greg. By saying Norman vs. OBJ is a fairly even matchup without a strong edge to either, I'm saying that a comment on a podcast that I never heard is wrong. If you want to pin it down that way, go right ahead.
I love how every time OBJ beat Norman in that game, it proved he was clearly better, but any time Norman got the better of OBJ, meh, it was just because Norman was in his head.
Stop drawing false equivalencies. As a whole, there is no doubt Norman threw OBJ off his game by getting in his head. Sure. But to just throw a blanket over the whole matchup and discredit everything Norman did because of that one factor is very, very biased.
You don't think OBJ got in Norman's head when he speared him with a helmet to helmet hit? You don't think that impacted Norman mentally in any way? He was a fucking wreck out there. He needed to be totally calmed down by his coaches and teammates.
The only reason the narrative has been "Norman got in OBJ's head" is because the Panthers won the game.
I don't know of any corner who can cover Beckham all game long and stop him.
What I know about Norman is that he's likely to talk a big game which could work out for us in a lot of ways when Beckham gets the best of him (assuming OBJ keeps his cool).
Hard to say if Norman makes Washington better, especially if it turns out he's a 2013 version of himself before he had the rest of the defense in Carolina to protect him.
Put it this way, if the Giants signed Jenkins to be their #1 guy, I'd be worried, and I think Jenkins is as good or better than Norman if you take other years than 2015 into account.
was eerily similar to the Panthers game for Beckham.
Broke loose for an early long TD against the Pats (against CAR obviously he dropped the TD).
then they double covered him, sometimes triple. In both games.
and then the Giants adjusted - went to other players like Randle and used Beckham on shorter routes (and conversely this time against NE he "dropped" the TD, but against CAR he caught it).
In New England they say things "other than the 89 yard TD Malcolm Butler shut down Beckham". LOL. It's like "other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln" and it completely discounts no other threats on the Giants and the extra attention to Beckham.
Not to get too far off track, but flipping this back to the Patriots, Gronkowski had a quiet game other than the 76 yard TD, yet the narrative is Gronkowski owned the Giants.
People can say what they want on a podcast it comes down to execution. Beckham dropped the ball, I wouldn't be on that happening again.
Show me examples of Norman "getting the better of OBJ" please.
Because I can show you multiple instances of Beckham blowing by Norman when he was actually focused on the game.
Unless you're considering the plays where Beckham was more concerned with knocking Norman out "wins" for Norman and means he can shut Beckham down.. which it seems you are... it didn't happen.
When Beckham simply ran his routes, he got open consistently. On many other occasions, he opted to go after Norman rather than running his routes.
If Beckham maintains his focus, he will dominate Norman one on one.
That the HUGE question for me: Can OBJ control his emotions. arcarsenal above feels he's too smart to repeat what happened. I'm not so sure. You don't correct instantaneous reactions that are most likely lifelong, overnight, imo..The goading will get worse. Intellectually, he should be good to go. Lesson(s) learned. But emotional spur of the moment? Far from certain about that
Our coaches handled it terribly. Coughlin barely even seemed to know what was going on and Sean Ryan didn't do a damn thing. I think McAdoo will know better this time around and make sure he talks to Odell before the game to reinforce the idea that it can't happen again.
I'd be absolutely stunned if he went off the rails like that again. I think he's going to want to do nothing but torch Norman and have a big game.
I just find it hard to believe that he's going to let Norman get into his head like that again. Maybe I'm wrong and he does, but I'll be shocked if that happens.
Since you dismiss Cosell's take because you didn't hear the podcast
In total, Beckham won enough routes versus Norman to leave roughly 100 yards and a touchdown on the field.
NFL Films senior producer Greg Cosell put it in even starker terms after meticulously reviewing the all-22 film.
"Norman did match up to Beckham, but they didn't play man coverage very often. And in fact, Beckham killed him," Cosell said this week on the Fantasy Guru Matchup Podcast. "I watched every play and I studied it hard because I knew it would be a topic of conversation. Beckham was beaten mentally. ... But physically, it's not even close. Norman can't cover Beckham."
Norman is a worthy Defensive Player of the Year candidate and should join Patrick Peterson as the first-team All-Pro cornerbacks this season. But he certainly didn't "shut down" Odell Beckham in the Panthers' shootout victory.
If anything, Beckham shut himself down for 57 minutes.
4-6 for 30 yards and a TD when covered by Norman. He also dropped 2 passes which at least one could have gone for a TD? Other than mentally, how did Norman win the matchup against OBJ.
he needs to resort to mindgames to even the playing field. Norman keeps talking himself up like he's this unbelievable corner that you keep on an island that shuts his guy down. Not true. The guy has a great front 7, and gets a lot of help from the safety, and he doesn't shadow his guy all over the field. He's a good corner, but hardly this elite corner that he thinks he is.
doesn't really make me nervous at all. The guy knows what happened and will focus more. He messed up but I'm not going to bury him for it or lose confidence. Unless he's a complete moron, which I don't think he is, he will be much more mature heading into this season.
especially with Odell's position coach at LSU here, and I'm sure McAdoo would sit him down to cool off. I'd love to see us bring someone like Boldin, who I think would command respect from OBJ.
Second, and most importantly, how can you not want to see OBJ torch Norman with hopefully a level head? As JRud said, if he catches that TD in the first quarter, he has a monster game. Norman cannot cover him, period, and I cant wait to see it.
Norman can't cover him? Period? This is the stuff that gets message boards made fun of on other team's message boards.
I'm by no means afraid of him coming to Washington and I think it would be a blast watching these two compete. I'd imagine they both would get the better of each other at a fairy even rate.
But I'm sorry. The manaufactured bravado on this thread is embarrassing. This would by no means be BENEFICIAL for the Giants. Jesus Christ.
Myself and others are just repeating what Greg Cosell stated after studying the game film. It's not like there is no basis for the argument. He absolutely let Carolina in his head but again, from the mouth of Cosell: Norman can't match up with him physically.
the Panthers slapped a franchise tag on Norman in the 1st place? They'd have been screwed for a year had he signed it.
What were the Panthers thinking when they made that move?
They placed the non-exclusive franchise tag on him, which gave them the option to match another offer, or let him go for two #1 draft picks. They wouldn't have been "stuck" with him if they didn't want to be...
They placed the non-exclusive franchise tag on him, which gave them the option to match another offer, or let him go for two #1 draft picks. They wouldn't have been "stuck" with him if they didn't want to be...
Speedy: What would happen if Norman signed the non-exclusive franchise tag and no other teams made an offer? Wouldn't the Panthers be stuck paying him top dollar for 2016?
Beckham could have been slapped with the unsportsman like conduct for the way he stepped over Norman. That was taunting pretty bad. (But I enjoyed it.)
Beckham could have been slapped with the unsportsman like conduct for the way he stepped over Norman. That was taunting pretty bad. (But I enjoyed it.)
Yeah, but Norman was waving his arm in the air before Beckham stepped over him. I don't see where he thought there could have been a flag thrown.
In comment 12915529 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
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Shame he is not still with the Giants.
Gettleman is getting blasted for tagging him to begin with. It cost them cap space during free agency. He cleared up cap space where top tier (and for that matter lower tier) free agents have already been signed.
In comment 12915529 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
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Shame he is not still with the Giants.
Gettleman is getting blasted for tagging him to begin with. It cost them cap space during free agency. He cleared up cap space where top tier (and for that matter lower tier) free agents have already been signed.
What was the point exactly?
Tagging him bought the team time to get him signed long-term. they did in fact want to sign him long-term. They did not want to spend $14M for one season for him on the tag.
when it became clear they were not going to reach a mutually agreeable long-term deal the Panthers rescinded the tag.
You can certainly argue it hurt them in free agency and very possibly in the short-term for on the field in 2016 depending on who they start at CB, but in the long-run it helps them.
Tagging him bought the team time to get him signed long-term. they did in fact want to sign him long-term. They did not want to spend $14M for one season for him on the tag.
when it became clear they were not going to reach a mutually agreeable long-term deal the Panthers rescinded the tag.
Makes sense, pj. I'd , give him $6M/3 years with $9M guaranteed. He's not even as good as Amukamara, IMO.
No idea what game you were watching, if OBJ catches the bomb a few minutes into the game that he completely burned Norman on he has 175 yard day and 2 TDs while melting down.
No he didnt..OBJ exposed him all game. If he hadnt dropped that first wide open deep td he would have embarrassed him even worse.
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I'd prefer he (and Ramsey in Dallas) didn't come to our Division. It just makes it that much harder for us.
No idea what game you were watching, if OBJ catches the bomb a few minutes into the game that he completely burned Norman on he has 175 yard day and 2 TDs while melting down.
High five
The majority of responses I've have been against signing Norman... not sure what you have been seeing
Are you aware that there are hundreds of people posting on BBI with differing opinions?
This idea that "BBI" says this and then "BBI" says that is so juvenile.
Combine that with Beckham's track record against Washington and he ought to be champing at the bit. From PFTs piece yesterday on Culliver's comments Re:Beckham complaining to refs...f
Thats a total, in three career games, of 28 catches, 364 yards, and five touchdowns.
But he's a talented guy. I'm sure he'll do just as well as Greg Hardy when he left Carolina...
steve in ky : 9:02 pm : link : reply
Take him away from that defense and I doubt he plays as dominate as he did with the Panthers.
Norman doesn't need Carolina. Why Do you think he did what he did, risking being cut? He Did Very Well Defending Beckham. Beckham will probably get the best of him when they face off though!
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If we would have landed Norman, it would be great, but since it is Washington it is a joke. Is that the thoughtful absolute thinking here. OK. I guess since we signed 3 free agents we have Washington beat, or is it Ok for us to do but when they do it then it is different? Very intelligent.
Are you aware that there are hundreds of people posting on BBI with differing opinions?
This idea that "BBI" says this and then "BBI" says that is so juvenile.
BBI has spoken!
There is a reason he was a 5th round draft pick in 2012.
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With out the surrounding cast of Carolina.
Norman doesn't need Carolina. Why Do you think he did what he did, risking being cut? He Did Very Well Defending Beckham. Beckham will probably get the best of him when they face off though!
Beckham killed Norman. Again not my words, but the words of Greg Cosell. "He can't cover him". Obviously Beckham was beaten mentally but henstill went for 6/76/1 on the day and would've gone 7/152/2 had he not let Cwrolina in his head and caught a ball that he does 99out of 100 times. Let's see how he does without a top 3 defense and the best front 7 in football.
Sounds awesome!
Sounds awesome!
I guess you really aren't just pretending to be stupid.
Sounds awesome!
Best corner in the NFL? Hitting that meth pipe again? Hope I just missed sarcasm.
Sounds awesome!
Thats a bit dramatic. The Skins won the division by default because everyone else sucked, I don't think anyone actually views them as a threat.
Second, and most importantly, how can you not want to see OBJ torch Norman with hopefully a level head? As JRud said, if he catches that TD in the first quarter, he has a monster game. Norman cannot cover him, period, and I cant wait to see it.
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With out the surrounding cast of Carolina.
Norman doesn't need Carolina. Why Do you think he did what he did, risking being cut? He Did Very Well Defending Beckham. Beckham will probably get the best of him when they face off though!
Before last season, Norman was considered an average corner. He wasn't even the #1 corner on his own team. Reminds me when Webster went from draft bust to shut down corner to okay CB. I don't even bother to rank these guys anymore because it is so fluid with them. Butler is now called a shutdown corner up in NE. I'm waiting for Bill to peddle him off on some sucker.
Sounds awesome!
C'mon Mike. I get to watch all the Carolina games done here. Norman is far from the best corner in the NFL. They do have 2 of the best cover linebackers in the league which allowed for Norman to only be concerned from the numbers to the sidelines...and he usually had safety help over the top. He's a good corner but not nearly the best. I think Beckham will own him each time they play.
No, they've committed precious "Revis" type cap to a player who is not "Revis-like". If it's a one year deal and there were all no reasonable alternatives, then it's a win for them. If it's a longer deal it's probably going to hamstring them.
Do you come by it naturally, or do you really work at it?
Norman can't cover him? Period? This is the stuff that gets message boards made fun of on other team's message boards.
I'm by no means afraid of him coming to Washington and I think it would be a blast watching these two compete. I'd imagine they both would get the better of each other at a fairy even rate.
But I'm sorry. The manaufactured bravado on this thread is embarrassing. This would by no means be BENEFICIAL for the Giants. Jesus Christ.
Maybe nothing to high five and celebrate about, but I probably like it for the Giants more than I dislike it.
Maybe nothing to high five and celebrate about, but I probably like it for the Giants more than I dislike it.
I wouldn't make that argument personally because he's that good, but it absolutely would be a reasonable stance, you're 100% right. I'm referring to the "Yes! Awesome! OBJ OWNS him!" people.
source looks sketchy, but it says it will be a 4 - 5 year deal 14 - 15M per season with SF or WASH.
Credit to the dude who put all of this together.
1) First play here : OBJ burns Norman like you said and drops the ball. OBJ's mistake, but he still beat Norman.
2) the Panthers realize Norman can't keep up and give Norman help.
3) Beckham beats Norman again and makes the bad WR play of dropping it again.
4) Panthers again start double teaming him because Norman is getting beat, which leads to the broken coverage that gave Randle his TD.
5) The play no one is talking about. OBJ burns Norman AGAIN for what of been a 50+ TD but our rookie O-lineman Richburg misses the block on the pressure off the blitz, forcing Eli into an under-thrown ball.
- Eli Fucking Manning
Anyone who saw past the theatrics and nonsense in that game saw that Norman couldn't cover Beckham. When all was said and done, he still got burned for a TD late in the game. He's lucky he wasn't burned for 2.. maybe more... because Odell spent half the game throwing himself at Norman's head rather than running his routes.
It won't be that way next time. Beckham won't make the same mistake twice.
The past two months has been the "Josh Norman Show" in Charlotte. He's been yapping constantly about how he ranks with all time greats, even compiling his own list where he's the 5th best CB ever - tied with Revis. He's threatening not to participate in minicamp or any workouts. He's saying he's the best player on the team (which obviously rankles the others), and he continues to talk about a feud with OBJ.
But inside the Panthers organization, he viewed him as dispensible, especially after the way he was exposed in a couple of late season games, Atlanta being one of them. They are concerned that he's too focused on image instead of his play. also, a lot of the football people realize Norman is a system player. He had been inconsistent, if not borderline poor in the years preceding 2015 and he's able to play in a system where he only has responsibility for a limited area of the field.
People who parrot the idea he's an elite corner are simply buying into hype. Hype his own team ignored.
The Panthers know his game better than any of us, and they don't want to pay him elite CB money. He will likely make Washington better because he is a good CB. But if they pay him like an elite CB it is good for the Giants because it is a bad use of their limited resources. That is why Giants fans are happy about it. That and because many of us saw the same thing that Greg Cosell and Herm Edwards (a guy who knows CB play) saw - that one on one, Norman really struggled when matched up against OBJ.
The past two months has been the "Josh Norman Show" in Charlotte. He's been yapping constantly about how he ranks with all time greats, even compiling his own list where he's the 5th best CB ever - tied with Revis. He's threatening not to participate in minicamp or any workouts. He's saying he's the best player on the team (which obviously rankles the others), and he continues to talk about a feud with OBJ.
But inside the Panthers organization, he viewed him as dispensible, especially after the way he was exposed in a couple of late season games, Atlanta being one of them. They are concerned that he's too focused on image instead of his play. also, a lot of the football people realize Norman is a system player. He had been inconsistent, if not borderline poor in the years preceding 2015 and he's able to play in a system where he only has responsibility for a limited area of the field.
People who parrot the idea he's an elite corner are simply buying into hype. Hype his own team ignored.
Good inside information. Thanks. I also agree that Beckham got the better of Norman in their game last year. Beckham just dropped too many balls. He was his own worst enemy. Norman can play, but hes not worth $14M. Gettleman is doing the smart thing by letting him go.
Gettleman has been pretty open that he believes Norman is hurting the team chemistry and is a distraction. He also claims that Norman and his agent won't budge off of wanting $16M per year and they don't believe he's worth anything close to that.
Ringing Endorsement - ( New Window )
As for the Redskins getting him it doesnt bother me. I don't think he is a #1 CB. If they are bringing him in to be that guy then its no big deal for us. He is not a stud CB. If the Giants signed him and kept DRC it would have been a nice move but rumors were that we would sign Norman and dump DRC which would have been a downgrade for us, DRC is much better than Norman imo. I live in Carolina and have watched a lot of both of them and its not even close imo.
Which is more likely, they quietly tried to trade him once it became clear they couldn't get a deal done, or they think he's such a problem that they would rather get zero compensation for getting rid of him?
Norman sucked balls against us. If his job is to cover OBJ, he didnt. I am not going to give credit to a guy because OBJ dropped a TD and had a mental let down. Norman's job is to cover the best guys in the game, and he did not do that - as evidence by many play break downs and sites on the web.
And I dont trust Jerry Richardson and his teams methods. If JN is that good, but they still make the drop move, then either they have his replacement already, or they will make a big move to get Ramsey or other top CB.
SD said they are already getting calls for the #3 and are open to moving down; I would think Panthers would include players and the 31/30 and other picks.
And I dont trust Jerry Richardson and his teams methods. If JN is that good, but they still make the drop move, then either they have his replacement already, or they will make a big move to get Ramsey or other top CB.
SD said they are already getting calls for the #3 and are open to moving down; I would think Panthers would include players and the 31/30 and other picks.
Why? What has he done aside from inheriting a SB talent squad?
The bottom line is it's not beneficial to the Giants that our most important player could be going up against perhaps the best corner in the game. It's entertaining. I welcome it. I'll be tuned in more intently and will enjoy it more if Norman is here, but it's just crazy to look at this potential signing and say "the Giants' situation got better today."
LOL - good stuff...
But our best player? Absolutely.
I didn't think you knew anything about football to begin with but now I'm certain you don't.
He's pretty much been on a lone wolf conquest to tell everyone how great he is, to openly dismiss the chances of attending minicamp or taking part in voluntary workouts and keeps telling reporters he's the best player on the team and everyone in the organization has had enough. Supposedly Rivera had a talk with him about it last week and Norman brushed it off and made a comment about paying him like the all time great he is, which apparently didn't sit too well with the coach.
Even at their press conference the other day, Gettleman sounded like a guy who was pushed to where he had no choice. Norman is 28 and is likely entering his last contract, he's demanding $16M per year, and he's causing division in the locker room. Gettleman said "We wish Josh the best, but at this time, the price of keeping him is too high".
And Gettleman is a guy who got rid of Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams at similar points in their careers, and both were more established as stars than Norman. He's taking the very calculated approach that it is better to get rid of somebody before they hit the wall then to pay them and watch them hit it. There pluses and minuses to that, as Smith and Williams have still bee productive, but it is hard to say he's made mistakes in doing that. It is a strategy Giants fans have applauded the Eagles for doing.
A lot of other GMs wouldn't have the guts to do that.
A lot of other GMs wouldn't have the guts to do that.
Peter, but neither is Reese in general. Fan favorites Osi, Tuck, Cofield et al were let go as well
Norman is 28, at a position where players over 30 start to slow down. Smith was an exception, but since leaving the team, he's had decent production and a few critical injuries.
To pay Norman $16M per year when they believe he is a product of the scheme doesn't sound like a great investment.
But I hate even going down that rabbit hole with you guys. It just shows that the people disputing this on this thread (not all of BBI) aren't even understanding the fundamental argument at play. If you want to completely miss the point and challenge Josh Norman being the best corner in football (which you may be correct on) I'm not going to waste my time. That is not the discussion at hand.
The simple... very simple... so simple... point is that celebrating the Giants' situation from an Xs and Os perspective because a division rival may land ONE OF the best corners in the game, just sounds ridiculous, and again, is the type of thing that'll get this thread linked to on another fan board mocking us for being big blue idiots.
PFF isn't my bible, but here's some fun stuff just to show how outlandish it is to vehemently protest Norman being the best. There is a reason the entire fucking NFL world was so excited for that ODB vs Norman matchup. It was (arguably) the best vs. the best. It was must see TV.
That's what this would be if he winds up a Skin.
Link - ( New Window )
Norman is 28, at a position where players over 30 start to slow down. Smith was an exception, but since leaving the team, he's had decent production and a few critical injuries.
To pay Norman $16M per year when they believe he is a product of the scheme doesn't sound like a great investment.
Agreed
Good players who play on great defenses tend to get overrated.
All of the talk about Norman's greatness is really stemming from one year - last year. On a team that was 15-1.
The rankings from 2014 and 2013 would be far less favorable for Norman and CB really is a position you want to see a guy excel at over several years, not a short-term blip.
Josh Norman played in a system where he was rarely left alone 1 on 1, had one of the best all around MIKE's in the sport in front of him as well as an outstanding front 7. It was clear as day that he was unable to handle Beckham from a talent standpoint. He got under his skin and threw him off his game.. cool. Had nothing to do with football ability. But I guess PFF is better than using your eyes.
I'm only utilizing this to highlight the idea that celebrating his potential arrival in the division is silly. That's really it.
All I know is if he sings with Washington, I am not going to sit here and say "well they have Josh Norman, its going to be tough to throw the ball against them." OBJ proved he can get open against him at will.... now he just has to finish plays.
Giving Norman long term, high money contracts is usually the sign of overspending and hurting your team's future. For the Redskins, its par for the course.
And it's this idea that OBJ owns him. So childish. Neither owns either. That was a fucking battle and it'd be more of the same, win some lose some, should Norman join Washington.
I, for one, would loathe the signing. Not that he doesnt make us better -e he may. But with DRC/Jenkins - we have needs elsewhere. Plus he is already 28 and will want 5-6 years. No thanks!
Think about it, you have a guy who think he's the best player in the league, eating up a significant portion of the cap and is most likely a product of the system he's in.
You have Giants fans criticizing the signing of Jenkins and yet we had the money to spend and are penciling him in as a #2. Norman becomes the man, and paid very much like it.
In 19 games in 2014, Darrelle Revis had 375 qualifying one-on-one coverages. In 19 games last year, Norman had 253.
But the simplest and easiest analysis is the one that creates the narratives.
That image is as fraudulent as they come.
True dat. But in this case, I think more BBIers than you think would criticize this. A lot..Imo
Think about it, you have a guy who think he's the best player in the league, eating up a significant portion of the cap and is most likely a product of the system he's in.
You have Giants fans criticizing the signing of Jenkins and yet we had the money to spend and are penciling him in as a #2. Norman becomes the man, and paid very much like it.
Asomugha bastid. I memorized this because he's married to "Olivia Pope."
Again - the battle that OBJ lost was mental/emotional. Josh Norman physically cannot matchup with Beckham one on one. If you don't believe any of us on the subject, why don't you listen to Greg Cosell or Herm Edwards?
Unless you think Beckham is truly dumb as a rock and will continue to let Norman get in his head, that matchup is a clear win for the Giants.
The false bravado about being jacked that Beckham owns this guy and will embarrass him is just that.
It doesn't matter who Bekcham lines up against, we all know he is the best, but this guy is still better than whoever the hell was playing cornerback for the redskins.
Assuming he doesn't get into his head again
I dont know if he is damn good, cause again I think being surrounded with a lot of talent helps players. Lets put it this way..... if he and DRC changed teams last year - are the Panthers that much worse and are we that much better? I dont know....
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And it's this idea that OBJ owns him. So childish. Neither owns either. That was a fucking battle and it'd be more of the same, win some lose some, should Norman join Washington.
Again - the battle that OBJ lost was mental/emotional. Josh Norman physically cannot matchup with Beckham one on one. If you don't believe any of us on the subject, why don't you listen to Greg Cosell or Herm Edwards?
Unless you think Beckham is truly dumb as a rock and will continue to let Norman get in his head, that matchup is a clear win for the Giants.
It's not that I don't believe you. I just don't agree. I think they are two of the best in the game. I think OBJ can school Norman and I think Norman can shut down OBJ.
This really isn't an outrageous take.
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It's a capped sport. If the Redskins want to pay elite money to a non elite corner, that's fine. I personally am just looking forward to seeing Beckham match up with him again.
Assuming he doesn't get into his head again
Beckham isn't a dumb dude. He's not going to let that happen again.
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In comment 12915596 Mike in Long Beach said:
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And it's this idea that OBJ owns him. So childish. Neither owns either. That was a fucking battle and it'd be more of the same, win some lose some, should Norman join Washington.
Again - the battle that OBJ lost was mental/emotional. Josh Norman physically cannot matchup with Beckham one on one. If you don't believe any of us on the subject, why don't you listen to Greg Cosell or Herm Edwards?
Unless you think Beckham is truly dumb as a rock and will continue to let Norman get in his head, that matchup is a clear win for the Giants.
It's not that I don't believe you. I just don't agree. I think they are two of the best in the game. I think OBJ can school Norman and I think Norman can shut down OBJ.
This really isn't an outrageous take.
Norman at no point in that game proved he could "shut down" OBJ. He proved he could piss OBJ off and get in his head but he sure as hell couldn't stop him from getting open when Odell ran his routes.
Yes, Greg. By saying Norman vs. OBJ is a fairly even matchup without a strong edge to either, I'm saying that a comment on a podcast that I never heard is wrong. If you want to pin it down that way, go right ahead.
Stop drawing false equivalencies. As a whole, there is no doubt Norman threw OBJ off his game by getting in his head. Sure. But to just throw a blanket over the whole matchup and discredit everything Norman did because of that one factor is very, very biased.
You don't think OBJ got in Norman's head when he speared him with a helmet to helmet hit? You don't think that impacted Norman mentally in any way? He was a fucking wreck out there. He needed to be totally calmed down by his coaches and teammates.
The only reason the narrative has been "Norman got in OBJ's head" is because the Panthers won the game.
What I know about Norman is that he's likely to talk a big game which could work out for us in a lot of ways when Beckham gets the best of him (assuming OBJ keeps his cool).
Hard to say if Norman makes Washington better, especially if it turns out he's a 2013 version of himself before he had the rest of the defense in Carolina to protect him.
Put it this way, if the Giants signed Jenkins to be their #1 guy, I'd be worried, and I think Jenkins is as good or better than Norman if you take other years than 2015 into account.
If Beckham maintains his focus, he will dominate Norman one on one.
Broke loose for an early long TD against the Pats (against CAR obviously he dropped the TD).
then they double covered him, sometimes triple. In both games.
and then the Giants adjusted - went to other players like Randle and used Beckham on shorter routes (and conversely this time against NE he "dropped" the TD, but against CAR he caught it).
In New England they say things "other than the 89 yard TD Malcolm Butler shut down Beckham". LOL. It's like "other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln" and it completely discounts no other threats on the Giants and the extra attention to Beckham.
Not to get too far off track, but flipping this back to the Patriots, Gronkowski had a quiet game other than the 76 yard TD, yet the narrative is Gronkowski owned the Giants.
People can say what they want on a podcast it comes down to execution. Beckham dropped the ball, I wouldn't be on that happening again.
Would any of you?
Because I can show you multiple instances of Beckham blowing by Norman when he was actually focused on the game.
Unless you're considering the plays where Beckham was more concerned with knocking Norman out "wins" for Norman and means he can shut Beckham down.. which it seems you are... it didn't happen.
If Beckham maintains his focus, he will dominate Norman one on one.
That the HUGE question for me: Can OBJ control his emotions. arcarsenal above feels he's too smart to repeat what happened. I'm not so sure. You don't correct instantaneous reactions that are most likely lifelong, overnight, imo..The goading will get worse. Intellectually, he should be good to go. Lesson(s) learned. But emotional spur of the moment? Far from certain about that
I'd be absolutely stunned if he went off the rails like that again. I think he's going to want to do nothing but torch Norman and have a big game.
NFL Films senior producer Greg Cosell put it in even starker terms after meticulously reviewing the all-22 film.
"Norman did match up to Beckham, but they didn't play man coverage very often. And in fact, Beckham killed him," Cosell said this week on the Fantasy Guru Matchup Podcast. "I watched every play and I studied it hard because I knew it would be a topic of conversation. Beckham was beaten mentally. ... But physically, it's not even close. Norman can't cover Beckham."
Norman is a worthy Defensive Player of the Year candidate and should join Patrick Peterson as the first-team All-Pro cornerbacks this season. But he certainly didn't "shut down" Odell Beckham in the Panthers' shootout victory.
If anything, Beckham shut himself down for 57 minutes.
It wasn't even close.
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Second, and most importantly, how can you not want to see OBJ torch Norman with hopefully a level head? As JRud said, if he catches that TD in the first quarter, he has a monster game. Norman cannot cover him, period, and I cant wait to see it.
Norman can't cover him? Period? This is the stuff that gets message boards made fun of on other team's message boards.
I'm by no means afraid of him coming to Washington and I think it would be a blast watching these two compete. I'd imagine they both would get the better of each other at a fairy even rate.
But I'm sorry. The manaufactured bravado on this thread is embarrassing. This would by no means be BENEFICIAL for the Giants. Jesus Christ.
Myself and others are just repeating what Greg Cosell stated after studying the game film. It's not like there is no basis for the argument. He absolutely let Carolina in his head but again, from the mouth of Cosell: Norman can't match up with him physically.
Both players are hot heads and divas -- they may just rip the team apart.
What were the Panthers thinking when they made that move?
What were the Panthers thinking when they made that move?
They placed the non-exclusive franchise tag on him, which gave them the option to match another offer, or let him go for two #1 draft picks. They wouldn't have been "stuck" with him if they didn't want to be...
They placed the non-exclusive franchise tag on him, which gave them the option to match another offer, or let him go for two #1 draft picks. They wouldn't have been "stuck" with him if they didn't want to be...
Speedy: What would happen if Norman signed the non-exclusive franchise tag and no other teams made an offer? Wouldn't the Panthers be stuck paying him top dollar for 2016?
What were the Panthers thinking when they made that move?
Was Norman asking for a flag after that play or was he yelling at the safety? Beckham just torched him there. Great throw from Eli too.
Yeah, but Norman was waving his arm in the air before Beckham stepped over him. I don't see where he thought there could have been a flag thrown.
Grr hope not. Want to see him in Washington now
Michael Silver, who acts like a know-it-all, says 49ers is unlikely.
Gettleman is getting blasted for tagging him to begin with. It cost them cap space during free agency. He cleared up cap space where top tier (and for that matter lower tier) free agents have already been signed.
What was the point exactly?
If Beckham maintains his focus, he will dominate Norman one on one.
Yup.
Quote:
Shame he is not still with the Giants.
Gettleman is getting blasted for tagging him to begin with. It cost them cap space during free agency. He cleared up cap space where top tier (and for that matter lower tier) free agents have already been signed.
What was the point exactly?
Tagging him bought the team time to get him signed long-term. they did in fact want to sign him long-term. They did not want to spend $14M for one season for him on the tag.
when it became clear they were not going to reach a mutually agreeable long-term deal the Panthers rescinded the tag.
You can certainly argue it hurt them in free agency and very possibly in the short-term for on the field in 2016 depending on who they start at CB, but in the long-run it helps them.
Someone on NFL Network said that earlier today, too.
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@AdamSchefter
As CB Josh Norman is with Redskins, Saints are making strong push to sign him, per sources. Decision down to Redskins and Saints.
Tagging him bought the team time to get him signed long-term. they did in fact want to sign him long-term. They did not want to spend $14M for one season for him on the tag.
when it became clear they were not going to reach a mutually agreeable long-term deal the Panthers rescinded the tag.
Makes sense, pj. I'd , give him $6M/3 years with $9M guaranteed. He's not even as good as Amukamara, IMO.
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