It was only last year that the Jets terminated key members of their personnel department (6 total including scouts) in the days following the 2015 draft.
With a Head Coach or a GM, changes are usually made at season end.
With Personnel Departments, changes are usually made once free agency and the draft have concluded.
Considering Tom Coughlin was the only major change to date with this team that has under performed three years running, is there another shoe to drop?
As the Giants roster stands today, the Giants don't have a single drafted player at the position of cornerback or tight end, and only one (Devon Kennard) at linebacker and running back (Andre Williams).
Perhaps ownership is interested in stability with a new Head Coach, but nothing would surprise me about changes in personnel staff following this weekends draft and UDFA signings.
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The in-game follies this season only supplied more ammo for Mara.
That is, unless you're the Browns. http://www.todayspigskin.com/pigskin-news/draft-weeks-away-browns-fire-six-scouts/
I think a couple of our scouts need to be put out to pasture. And I don't like Mara's nephew or whomever as one of our scouts SMH. Not to mention Horseman Chris Mara.
Bottom line, we really don't know what the issue is but I sure hope the ax doesn't fall on the wrong person if things don't go well this year.
Every man for himself, Charles. Firing Ross might be an excellent deflection by Reese. Place the blame elsewhere. Separate.
However, the Giants did not underperform as is stated above. They had a roster totally commensurate with their W-L records. As I look back, I think '13 doomed Coughlin. Had the Giants not faced so many second-string quarterbacks that season, they would have had a 3-13 type season. That would have brought to light how terrible the personnel guys were doing their jobs. The organization placed too much faith in Coughlin at that point.
People like Mason, I am afraid, completely miss the point about the close losses. Coughlin got them to that point in those games. Talent brings the win home. Most NFL games are close, score-wise. It's a professional league. They should be. The Giants are in the midst of completely revamping their team. If they succeed in doing it, McAdoo will have a chance to win. If they don't, he is screwed. It is as simple as that. Talent is 85% of the winning equation. Belichick could not win without Brady. Parcells impregnable defense was lit up when LT was binging. The Packers, held up as some sort of model organization, find it hard to win a game without Rodgers playing.
I think Ross will be let go.
You still want him gone?
At the time TC was going, I was among those who felt the guys who's heads should have rolled were Ross, Director of Pro Personnel, Ken Sternfeld, and the Strength coach/staff.
Not sure I agree with Eric that firing Ross would happen AFTER the draft. He's the department head. He could have gone during the change, and the remaining scouts would have done what they always do pre-draft anyway, and reported to Reese or whoever. Not to mention, Ross was being considered around the league for GM jobs.
But I think he's gonna be here, and even if he wasn't, my guess is they'd promote the next guy in line anyway.
To be clear, I don't give a shoot either way, but I find it funny people think they know what the fuck they are talking about?
Jay in Toronto : 5:21 am : link : reply
Is what moved Goodell to strong - arm George Young in. Maybe we need the same cleaning in the scouting department.
It was Rozele, not Goodell...
As for the draft, we all know it's a crapshoot....some GM's are better at craps than others.....sometimes, it's whoever is blowing on your hand before you throw, rather than the thrower....
The problem is, you have to hit on players, after round two...we haven't.....and we haven't been resigning guys we drafted in rounds one and two, another problem.....and name all the playmakers, outside of OBj, we have drafted in the first two rounds of the last 5 drafts.....when you draft bodies, but not playmakers, your talent level diminishes quickly....
You have to have a plan to replace aging players, something we woefully fall short of....then next thing you know we are backed into a corner and have to overpay free agents....
As far as Reese and Co. go, I think they have been given a blank check for this season and next.....if it doesn't bear fruit by then, Reese/Ross will have no more excuses...
Not blaming Ross specifically but we need to improve a lot more than just landing Beckham and Richburg as of late.
Did he not draft Beckham? And Richburg? And Flowers?
think about it. the teams have to know they are not going to retain specific people's services, yet you keep them on to ask their opinion about franchise altering decisions?
You as a team either don't trust them enough to keep them or feel like they have done an acceptable job, yet you want their input up until you select players, then you'll fire them before those players perform.
Hate to say it, but the Browns got this right and any other team who fired scouts/GM's/Director of college scouting in January.
To be clear, I don't give a shoot either way, but I find it funny people think they know what the fuck they are talking about?
First, Ross was let go from his two previous positions with the Eagles and the Bills because of poor results. The drafts have sucked since he has taken over leaving the team with a roster bereft of talent. We got one meaningful player from the 2011 draft, absolutely zero from the 2012 draft and only two from the 2013 draft. Consequently, we have missed the playoffs for four years in a row . It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. It all rests on the shoulders of Reese, Ross and Chris Mara. They all should be let go IMHO but we know Mara isn't going anywhere.
Does it mean that he filters down the prospects from the scouts and only presents a percentage of those to the GM, and then the GM has the final say?
I wrote the same thing during that season, and afterwards when they decided to retain TC and not begin tearing down the roster. Much like 2012, they banked on being able to wring out every last drop from what they believed they still had. They've not demonstrated much ability to get out in front of decline, from the top down.
The nepotism isn't going away either, dudes.
Does it mean that he filters down the prospects from the scouts and only presents a percentage of those to the GM, and then the GM has the final say?
Up until recently, Reese had not been heavily involved in the draft. It was only when results turned sour that he was asked to get back in the room.
It's usually the director of college scouting that does all the board work for the draft and manages the scouts.
People think the GM does everything. It's not so.
Which picks does the GM have the most input on? First rounders. Which picks have been the most successful for the team over the past seven years? The first round. Add that to his being run out of Philly and Buffalo, and Marc Ross has a very unimpressive track record.
Which picks does the GM have the most input on? First rounders. Which picks have been the most successful for the team over the past seven years? The first round. Add that to his being run out of Philly and Buffalo, and Marc Ross has a very unimpressive track record.
That last sentence is what has me worried about Ross - he's managed to fail upward pretty well it seems. Out in Philly, out in Buffalo, promoted in NY. Granted, it takes an entire organization to put together a draft, and it could be he didn't get the support he needed - but where was the supporting evidence that warranted hiring the guy and giving him a promotion?
I just can't shake the feeling that we need more scouts. Something about watching Finding Giants - and the number of guys that need to be evaluated, the amount of travel, and the turnaround time - measured against the number of people performing the task, it just didn't seem like the right scale to me. Much like the coaching staff received a few extra heads, I think the Giants would be well served to do the same on the scouting end.
I don't know if its true or not, but if it is then those GMs should be looking for a new line of work. A GM should get thru all the players and have an opinion on each one, at least to some reasonable degree.
Maybe I am being to unrealistic, but when a guy like James Brewer shows up to camp and can barely determine when the snap occurs, there needs to be some changes made...
If you know Ross is going to be fired after it, and you don't like his track record, why is he running this draft?
Does no one else see the ridiculousness of this practice?
To be clear, I don't give a shoot either way, but I find it funny people think they know what the fuck they are talking about?
Yes, don't judge! Our stellar roster is indicative of the great job he did. Our roster was so good, we spent nothing in FA to improve, no need. If the team goes 0 - 16 are you willing to say the Giants had a bad year if you only watched games on TV?
There isn't an endless number of NFL quality players and this happens once a year. I wouldn't overstate the commitment.
Managers oversee. His job was to determine the right people for the job of finding college talent. And his other role will be to remove that person from that job if performance doesn't improve.
Jay in Toronto : 5:21 am : link : reply
Is what moved Goodell to strong - arm George Young in. Maybe we need the same cleaning in the scouting department.
[quote]
It was Rozele, not Goodell...
Of course, you are right.
But it bothers me that several Maras are intimately involved in the draft. Where do their player evaluation skills come from?
About the only good thing is that these 2 gambles in the top 10(Floyd and Flowers),combined with previous failures,should be the end.