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NFT: Millenials

Hammer : 4/27/2016 8:04 am
Two interesting articles appear in the Washington Post this morning.

I wonder what the implications are.

Discuss?
Millenials outnumber baby boomers - ( New Window )
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RE: RE: The more things change the more they stay the same  
speedywheels : 4/27/2016 5:18 pm : link
In comment 12925223 dust_bowl said: the relative impotence of it [/quote].

You mean, like every single one of your posts??
I am definitely generalizing...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/27/2016 5:22 pm : link
My sons are millennials, and I couldn't be more proud of them. Paying their own way through college, learning about sales by taking risks on commission-only jobs. There are plenty of millennials that have great attitudes and are on the right track toward success.

We are living in the modern-day equivalent of the gold-rush, and those who figure things out are going to make absolute fortunes.

But I'm a teacher as well as a parent, and I can tell you I have had many, many lengthy discussions with millennials about their views. I stand by my observation - many more are interested in economic fairness than they are in economic freedom, and they fail to understand how capitalism works.

Then again, so do many of their parents.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: There have been a number of recent articles on it, but  
Hammer : 4/27/2016 5:24 pm : link
In comment 12924977 dust_bowl said:
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In comment 12924629 Dunedin81 said:


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In comment 12924617 dust_bowl said:


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In comment 12924584 njm said:


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In comment 12924544 Metnut said:


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Are we sure that a VAT (with suitable exemptions) is a non-starter in the US forever?





Something like 47 states already impose a sales tax. I'm not aware of anything like that in Europe. To add a VAT to a transaction already subject to a sales tax is something I'm not sure would be acceptable, nor am I sure it should be.

they don't need to cause they don't have a slave economy.



If you hate this country so much why don't you get the fuck out of it?

funny you say that. Stalin used to say that to soviet dissidents.

Back to reality, I love this country. I simply want it to live up to its ideals which it is failing miserably at. Further, the country to me isn't a bunch of rich corporations who now dominate our society. It's striking miners and workers. It's protesters demanding gender equality. It's black lives matter demanding racial equality. It's occupy Wall Street fighting to tell banks to stop gambling with people's livelihoods and demanding we pay the bookie. It's soldiers forgotten when they come home and left to peddle for change in a wheelchair or struggling with pstd while laws ban marijuana to help treat them forcing them to rely on actual big pharmaceutical drugs. I don't worship leaders from Bernie to trump. I worship everyday people from all walks of life who are the backbone of this country and tired of having ten people own as much well as 150 million. People standing together. That's how we got rid of slavery. That's how we got same labor laws. That's how we got decent environmental protections. Always opposed by the intellectual class who tells stories about how we're really good and if we use violence it must be for the general good cause we represent the course of history. That's the job for propagandists for power and violence. It's the task of populations to free themselves from those doctrinal constraints.


Well said.
Again, generalizing  
Modus Operandi : 4/27/2016 5:31 pm : link
If a large constituency of people believe the system to be rigged and broken - and, there are many examples of this over the last 15 years - then how is one to go about achieving this?

Economic fairness vs. economic freedom crunches it all down to a simplistic sound bite and hints at a lack of ownership and accountability over one's life. I just don't think it's that simple. I think it glosses over large, systemic problems which prevent people from achieving what you see as so easy. It's not.
How can you know what economic fairness is  
WideRight : 4/27/2016 5:33 pm : link
without understanding capitalism?

Are you referring to income equality as fairness? If the market doesn't determine whats fair, then who does, and why?

BTW, what ever happened to Occupy Wall Street? Some of the concerns were valid, but much of it was a media event, and it seems that when the media lost interest, so did the people who were affected. That never happened with prior movements - they had staying power. Not sure if its a reflection of millenials, but I suspect some of it is...
From the second article linked...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/27/2016 5:46 pm : link
Quote:
John Della Volpe, the polling director at Harvard, went on to personally interview a small group of young people about their attitudes toward capitalism to try to learn more. They told him that capitalism was unfair and left people out despite their hard work.


In my conversations I hear a lot of concern about the system being unfair. This is a major concern for them.

I hear a lot of comments about how things aren't working right in Washington based on how many people don't have jobs and/or don't have good paying jobs.

I don't hear a lot of concern about how difficult it is to start a new business. I don't hear a lot of concern about how difficult it is to make payroll. They aren't frustrated because they want to start their own businesses and find barriers to entry in the marketplace.

Yes - I'm generalizing both about Millennials as a group and also about the freedom/fairness concerns. But what I've written is a true generalization.
RE: Some funny stats in the second article  
djm : 4/27/2016 5:47 pm : link
In comment 12923499 mfsd said:
Quote:
Only 42 percent support capitalism, and yet only 27% support government intervention in the economy. Yet over 70% support legalizing marijuana.

Which makes me think many of them are still too busy smoking weed and playing video games.

But have faith, they will grow up and act like adults eventually.

Right?


Millenials are pretty mature if you ask me. Yes they are a bit too PC at times and maybe a bit overly sensitive and the whole pussification of America thing, I have railed against them on here as much as anyone but really, we probably need more sensitivity in this world don't you think? We've been butchering the planet and human race for 50,000 years now. Change is a good thing. And millenials are much more mature at their young age then we all were at the same age. I assure you that.

I mean it's pretty simple  
djm : 4/27/2016 5:49 pm : link
the reason why the world is so fucked up isn't due to this latest generation. Hopefully they can help unfuck things. They do seem eager.
I dont think the world is so fucked up  
Deej : 4/27/2016 5:57 pm : link
less war and violence than ever. Tons of economic opportunity. And I discount the glum projections of growth.
RE: I mean it's pretty simple  
Dan in the Springs : 4/27/2016 5:58 pm : link
In comment 12925342 djm said:
Quote:
the reason why the world is so fucked up isn't due to this latest generation. Hopefully they can help unfuck things. They do seem eager.


I couldn't agree more. Millennials are simply dealing with the world they inherited with the skills and values they were given in their youth.

I just find it interesting that so many Millennials seem to be worried that our system is unfair to hard workers than they are concerned about barriers to their own success. Is it due to the "everyone gets a trophy" mindset they were raised in?

I'm a gen-xer, and I've known plenty of people who are lured into socialist thinking, from all generations. The teaching profession is loaded up with people with socialist viewpoints on many issues. It's not really a surprise that there are socialists and anti-capitalists.

What is curious to me is the large number of anti-capitalists pro-socialist Millennials.

For years I've thought the death of the small business would be at the hands of the large corporate lobbyists. I now believe that it is more likely to be at the hands of the Millennials.
RE: I dont think the world is so fucked up  
Dan in the Springs : 4/27/2016 6:02 pm : link
In comment 12925352 Deej said:
Quote:
less war and violence than ever. Tons of economic opportunity. And I discount the glum projections of growth.


Agreed. The Economist had an interesting article outlining how poverty is being eradicated around the world, which is an important first step in solving things like world peace. Want to talk about income inequality and fairness in outcomes?
Maybe it is "everybody-gets-a-trophy" syndrome  
WideRight : 4/27/2016 6:35 pm : link
I am curious to know what the millenial's perception of fairness is. Working hard and being left behind is unfair? What about succeeding based on priviledge? Or never having an opportunity to work hard to begin with?

No one can argue that things are fair, but why does anyone think fairness is human right? Disease is essentially unfair and people argue for a right to health care, not for a right to good health.

Are expectations too ideal because everyone got a trophy?
Tend to agree with Dan, deep and dim  
Ron from Ninerland : 4/27/2016 6:44 pm : link
The world is a better place now than in the past, and the Millennials are more mature than we Boomers were at the same age. In the 60's and 70's there was real poverty in much of America and up to a third of the world suffered from hunger. Poor people in America went hungry and lived in deplorable conditions. The housing conditions in America's worst slums were unspeakable to what you see today. As for the rest of the world there was mass hunger in India, China and Africa.

Nowadays there may be some rural pockets in America that I'm not aware of where people go hungry, but in America's cities, people have enough to eat and live decently. They may be reliant on food stamps, food banks and live in overcrowded conditions but they don't live in what would have been considered poverty in the 60's. Poor people in America weigh more than rich people. As for the rest of the world India's problems now are pollution, overcrowding and poor healthcare. Bad, but in the past it was hunger, basic sanitation and infant mortality. I know less about China but things have similarly improved there. Even large parts of Africa are developing a middle class. Today we face the threat of terror. As bad as that is its better than facing the threat of nuclear war with the Soviet Union.

As for Millennials I can't prove scentifically that they are more mature, but those are my informal observations. Within my family the millennial generation is much more mature and focused than we were at a similar age. I recently went to a birthday party in Vegas that a friend was throwing for her 21 year old son. About 20 of his friends were invited. Like all 20 somethings of any generation, I though they drank too much, but other than that they acted like adults.
Meant to say Dan, Deej and Djm  
Ron from Ninerland : 4/27/2016 6:46 pm : link
Damn spellchecker
RE: Tend to agree with Dan, deep and dim  
dust_bowl : 4/27/2016 8:16 pm : link
In comment 12925429 Ron from Ninerland said:
Quote:
The world is a better place now than in the past, and the Millennials are more mature than we Boomers were at the same age. In the 60's and 70's there was real poverty in much of America and up to a third of the world suffered from hunger. Poor people in America went hungry and lived in deplorable conditions. The housing conditions in America's worst slums were unspeakable to what you see today. As for the rest of the world there was mass hunger in India, China and Africa.

Nowadays there may be some rural pockets in America that I'm not aware of where people go hungry, but in America's cities, people have enough to eat and live decently. They may be reliant on food stamps, food banks and live in overcrowded conditions but they don't live in what would have been considered poverty in the 60's. Poor people in America weigh more than rich people. As for the rest of the world India's problems now are pollution, overcrowding and poor healthcare. Bad, but in the past it was hunger, basic sanitation and infant mortality. I know less about China but things have similarly improved there. Even large parts of Africa are developing a middle class. Today we face the threat of terror. As bad as that is its better than facing the threat of nuclear war with the Soviet Union.

As for Millennials I can't prove scentifically that they are more mature, but those are my informal observations. Within my family the millennial generation is much more mature and focused than we were at a similar age. I recently went to a birthday party in Vegas that a friend was throwing for her 21 year old son. About 20 of his friends were invited. Like all 20 somethings of any generation, I though they drank too much, but other than that they acted like adults.
completely wrong. For starters you forgot to mention the earth is on its last legs from complete destroyal from climate change:
dust bowl  
Bill2 : 4/27/2016 8:21 pm : link
I don't disagree with your goals, any of your idealism and many of your critiques in general ( that said precision and nuance matter) but if you really wish to make a difference then tone may be better in a less certain, moral high horse, questioning and educational spirit laced with grace to others?

And on some items and topics the fact base is so far off that I for one wind up rejecting the conclusion because the foundation is just flat out wrong and lazy wrong ( not picking on dates or factoids or minutia which demonstrates zilch about subject mastery right or wrong).

glad you have big goals. Now may be the time to work on building effectiveness to match.

Or don't. But then don't wonder why you get dismissed and no one listens.

take care.
RE: I dont think the world is so fucked up  
djm : 4/27/2016 8:29 pm : link
In comment 12925352 Deej said:
Quote:
less war and violence than ever. Tons of economic opportunity. And I discount the glum projections of growth.


I agree. In many ways, actually in pretty much every way the world is better than ever. But it's still pretty fucked...
djm  
Bill2 : 4/27/2016 8:53 pm : link
Tend to agree.

The health care system is a mess but overall diet and health technology is much better than even a few decades ago.

So is gender, racial and minority awareness.

So is progress towards labeling and offering options for victims of domestic violence.

So is product safety and work safety. ( even in the seventies no seat belts, glass windows, hard steering wheels and sharp edged dashboards made for horrific loss of life on the roads).

so too is the spread of different ways to speak truth to power and injustice.

That all said, labeling any of these generations is so filled with a range of lifestyles and stories and perspectives the generalities don't tell us much. I think the labels are for ad agencies not sociologically useful insights
With all that said....  
WideRight : 4/27/2016 9:55 pm : link
And I like to agree with most of it, the expected lifespan of middle and lower class US white males is declining for the first time in many years, maybe ever.

No ones blaming millenials - narcotic abuse is the suspected cause - but this is the adult world they are entering and they may see it differently than prior generations.
Fair point  
Bill2 : 4/27/2016 10:30 pm : link
The nation's perspective, enlightened attitude and the support for addiction and mental disease in general has improved by leaps and bounds ( note how many now half full or abandoned " mental hospitals" dote the landscape) but it's also true that the number of ways and excuses to fall shorter of one's potential has grown ( although that trend grows on the farmland of unbelievable levels of instant gratification consumerism and less opportunity offered by our hallowed out economy for young people)
RE: I am definitely generalizing...  
njm : 4/28/2016 9:07 am : link
In comment 12925290 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
My sons are millennials, and I couldn't be more proud of them. Paying their own way through college, learning about sales by taking risks on commission-only jobs. There are plenty of millennials that have great attitudes and are on the right track toward success.

We are living in the modern-day equivalent of the gold-rush, and those who figure things out are going to make absolute fortunes.


So your sons are selling shovels on commission?
RE: RE: I am definitely generalizing...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/28/2016 12:34 pm : link
In comment 12926613 njm said:
Quote:
So your sons are selling shovels on commission?


Something like that. ;>
Based on my experiences  
Route 9 : 4/28/2016 1:26 pm : link
I believe we (us millennials) don't care about trivial shit. Stuff that my parents would complain about, don't seem to matter to us. Can't really think of any of examples right now. Brain is fried from 'Theories of Mass Communication" final exam!
RE: Based on my experiences  
njm : 4/28/2016 1:59 pm : link
In comment 12927573 Route 9 said:
Quote:
I believe we (us millennials) don't care about trivial shit. Stuff that my parents would complain about, don't seem to matter to us. Can't really think of any of examples right now. Brain is fried from 'Theories of Mass Communication" final exam!


If you don't care about trivial shit, please explain about 75% of Facebook and half of Twitter.
RE: RE: Based on my experiences  
Metnut : 4/28/2016 2:10 pm : link
In comment 12927664 njm said:
Quote:
In comment 12927573 Route 9 said:


Quote:


I believe we (us millennials) don't care about trivial shit. Stuff that my parents would complain about, don't seem to matter to us. Can't really think of any of examples right now. Brain is fried from 'Theories of Mass Communication" final exam!



If you don't care about trivial shit, please explain about 75% of Facebook and half of Twitter.


My facebook feed is primarily boomers posting political memes, targeted quasi-ad content, and millenial/gen x tweener women posting baby pictures. To be fair, there's a very good chance that this is just a reflection of me being lame.
Like I said,  
Route 9 : 4/28/2016 2:13 pm : link
It would be the same thing or comparatively bad "back then" if Twitter and Facebook existed. I'm sure people have always had opinions on subjects, complained/reacted about a current event and there have always been weirdos.

75%? of what I see? or what you see? I don't know. The stuff people post on my Facebook feed are what I post about on here mostly. Sports. Maybe a Bernie Sanders post will slip in here and there.

I'm talking about mistakes/errors slippages that would've gotten you a 15-20 minute lecture from parents or other adults as a kid, but among peers I catch myself apologizing for something (that meant something to an extent to my parents) but it surely doesn't have the same consequence or shade of meaning to people around the same age as myself. Meaning, what your generation or another generation sees as rude and disrespectful, would be no big issue to us.
To follow up...  
Metnut : 4/28/2016 2:13 pm : link
I think most of the younger millenials see facebook as something their parents post on and primarily use snapchat, instagram and twitter (to a lesser extent) for social media.
RE: To follow up...  
Patrick77 : 4/28/2016 2:21 pm : link
In comment 12927700 Metnut said:
Quote:
I think most of the younger millenials see facebook as something their parents post on and primarily use snapchat, instagram and twitter (to a lesser extent) for social media.


Facebook is to remember names, birthdays, and post big events. All my friends and people younger than me (29) use instagram, twitter, whatsapp, snapchat, etc... I'm a dinosaur in that I have no need for snapchat or instagram.
I never got into Twitter or anything post Facebook  
Route 9 : 4/28/2016 2:21 pm : link
Instagram, snap chat, Yik Yak. One place you can find me. That's facebook and I've had it since 2005.
Good call on what's app  
Metnut : 4/28/2016 2:32 pm : link
Patrick. My younger sisters all use this and I've been unable to comprehend why I need this app when group texting seems to accomplish the exact same thing.
RE: To follow up...  
njm : 4/28/2016 2:40 pm : link
In comment 12927700 Metnut said:
Quote:
I think most of the younger millenials see facebook as something their parents post on and primarily use snapchat, instagram and twitter (to a lesser extent) for social media.


And there's no trivial shit on snapchat, instagram and twitter?
RE: Good call on what's app  
Patrick77 : 4/28/2016 2:43 pm : link
In comment 12927752 Metnut said:
Quote:
Patrick. My younger sisters all use this and I've been unable to comprehend why I need this app when group texting seems to accomplish the exact same thing.


Agreed. I don't get it. I will use it, Viber, or Skype when I am overseas and using only wifi but as far as using it when I am home or even traveling anywhere in NA I don't get it at all. The only time I see a use for it is when I want to communicate with others and it will cost me to use other modes of communication.
RE: RE: To follow up...  
Patrick77 : 4/28/2016 2:44 pm : link
In comment 12927778 njm said:
Quote:
In comment 12927700 Metnut said:


Quote:


I think most of the younger millenials see facebook as something their parents post on and primarily use snapchat, instagram and twitter (to a lesser extent) for social media.



And there's no trivial shit on snapchat, instagram and twitter?


There's tons. You wouldn't believe the amount of 40+ year olds that think face-swapping via snapchat is hilarious, just like their 8 year old kids.

Other generations utilize these items and are no better from my experience.
.....  
Route 9 : 4/28/2016 4:42 pm : link
It's obvious technology has evolved. In older parts of my college that were built in 1960-whatever, the classrooms have no more than one student serviceable power outlet in the most inconvenient locations. In the more modern parts of the campus there are 4 easily accessible outlets per room, and even charging stations with 8-10 available UBS ports ready for charge!
RE: .....  
njm : 4/28/2016 4:54 pm : link
In comment 12928264 Route 9 said:
Quote:
It's obvious technology has evolved. In older parts of my college that were built in 1960-whatever, the classrooms have no more than one student serviceable power outlet in the most inconvenient locations. In the more modern parts of the campus there are 4 easily accessible outlets per room, and even charging stations with 8-10 available UBS ports ready for charge!


Sitting in those 1960-whatever buildings in the 1970's we took notes in notebooks using pens.

Honest question. Are the charging stations in those classrooms used for devices that a) allow you to take the equivalent of notes, b) use snapchat/twitter or the most recent equivalent or c) (my guess) a little of both?
.....  
Route 9 : 4/28/2016 5:25 pm : link
Sure, back then some did take notes and some didn't. Some students got good grades and the others were average, or bad. Didn't students used to send notes around the room before text messaging or draw pictures of Darth Vader or The Jetsons to pass the time? I used a laptop to take my notes, which is dumb of me because guess what? You can just take out your phone, snap! and you have it. Or if you miss a class, you can receive them e-mail or text message from a buddy instead of copying them.

Professors state on their syllabus that laptops are allowed but no web browsing, I think they know that is going to happen anyway but it looks like every standard syllabus was typed by the exact same person. I think a boring class is a boring class, whether it was taught in 1976 or 2016 by a boring professor.

To answer your question, I guess those charging stations are predominantly for school work purposes. Then again, I do see professors and administration people playing phone games all the time. Like my parents once said "There is a time and a place" or something. Then again, all my colleges gave a fuck about was getting your money.
RE: RE: .....  
Big Al : 4/28/2016 5:33 pm : link
In comment 12928318 njm said:
Quote:
In comment 12928264 Route 9 said:


Quote:


It's obvious technology has evolved. In older parts of my college that were built in 1960-whatever, the classrooms have no more than one student serviceable power outlet in the most inconvenient locations. In the more modern parts of the campus there are 4 easily accessible outlets per room, and even charging stations with 8-10 available UBS ports ready for charge!



Sitting in those 1960-whatever buildings in the 1970's we took notes in notebooks using pens.

Honest question. Are the charging stations in those classrooms used for devices that a) allow you to take the equivalent of notes, b) use snapchat/twitter or the most recent equivalent or c) (my guess) a little of both?
Back in my day there was no outlet for my device which was known as a slide rule.
RE: .....  
njm : 4/28/2016 5:37 pm : link
In comment 12928423 Route 9 said:
Quote:
Sure, back then some did take notes and some didn't. Some students got good grades and the others were average, or bad. Didn't students used to send notes around the room before text messaging or draw pictures of Darth Vader or The Jetsons to pass the time?


Not where I went to school, although when the professor in the "Biology for Econ Majors" class I took to cover required hours in a science course began his legendary "Effects of Alcohol on Human Physiology" lecture the sound of beer cans being opened echoed throughout the room. I hasten to add the legal age for drinking was 18 at the time.
Well this  
ctc in ftmyers : 4/28/2016 5:52 pm : link
thread is going of subject.

Never thought I would go to college and eventually teach at one.

Every instructor lets you know, intentionally or not, after the first assignment and how they grades it, what they want and expect. Usually the exact opposite of what the syllabus outlines.

Was my experience although I started later than most.

kind of an interesting question  
Route 9 : 4/28/2016 6:20 pm : link
How'd you guys get grades from college? Report cards in the mail? I couldn't take that shit the anticipation, professors post them right away lol
RE: kind of an interesting question  
Big Al : 4/28/2016 7:13 pm : link
In comment 12928537 Route 9 said:
Quote:
How'd you guys get grades from college? Report cards in the mail? I couldn't take that shit the anticipation, professors post them right away lol
Telegraph.
Smoke  
ctc in ftmyers : 4/28/2016 7:44 pm : link
signal.

Peace mon.
RE: Smoke  
Big Al : 4/28/2016 7:46 pm : link
In comment 12928737 ctc in ftmyers said:
Quote:
signal.

Peace mon.
That is insensitive to Native Americans.
Re: Beer cans  
Route 9 : 4/28/2016 8:05 pm : link
Yeah that’s also true, you guys knew how to out party us but we party and slack off way too much ;)
RE: RE: Smoke  
ctc in ftmyers : 4/28/2016 8:29 pm : link
In comment 12928742 Big Al said:
Quote:
In comment 12928737 ctc in ftmyers said:


Quote:


signal.

Peace mon.

That is insensitive to Native Americans.


At the time. They were right there with anyone who would pass the pipe. :-)
RE: kind of an interesting question  
njm : 4/29/2016 10:33 am : link
In comment 12928537 Route 9 said:
Quote:
How'd you guys get grades from college? Report cards in the mail? I couldn't take that shit the anticipation, professors post them right away lol


Express, as in Pony Express
RE: Re: Beer cans  
njm : 4/29/2016 10:35 am : link
In comment 12928808 Route 9 said:
Quote:
Yeah that’s also true, you guys knew how to out party us but we party and slack off way too much ;)


School motto (which many schools also claim):

"Work hard, play hard"
lol old people.  
BrettNYG10 : 4/29/2016 10:52 am : link
Never stop complaining.

Route 9 and I will save this generation.
RE: lol old people.  
Big Al : 4/29/2016 10:55 am : link
In comment 12932277 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Never stop complaining.

Route 9 and I will save this generation.
We love to complete saga in about fat people, short people and baseball.
Old people often  
Big Al : 4/29/2016 10:56 am : link
get defeated by the strange things spell check does.
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