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NFT: Millenials

Hammer : 4/27/2016 8:04 am
Two interesting articles appear in the Washington Post this morning.

I wonder what the implications are.

Discuss?
Millenials outnumber baby boomers - ( New Window )
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The second article  
Hammer : 4/27/2016 8:06 am : link
.
Millennial's views on capitalism - ( New Window )
God help us.  
Gmaniac1 : 4/27/2016 8:09 am : link
God help us all.

Nah, I'm just kidding. We can legitimately dump on millennials for certain things... they're too sensitive, they have no attention span, etc. But buy and large these are the new problems of age vs. youth, and they tend to moderate as the youth get older.

Things will work themselves out. Things tend to do just that. And if they don't... it's not because of millennials, it's because of humanity. I'm not losing any sleep over it.
Some funny stats in the second article  
mfsd : 4/27/2016 8:13 am : link
Only 42 percent support capitalism, and yet only 27% support government intervention in the economy. Yet over 70% support legalizing marijuana.

Which makes me think many of them are still too busy smoking weed and playing video games.

But have faith, they will grow up and act like adults eventually.

Right?
Interesting on topic  
feelflows : 4/27/2016 8:24 am : link
This is how retailer Canadian Tire is adjusting to market the Millenials.

It's a new ballgame our there.

http://www.itbusiness.ca/news/canadian-tires-400-million-drive-to-shift-gears-as-a-clicks-and-bricks-retailer/69212
Millenials' views vis a vis  
Deej : 4/27/2016 8:27 am : link
getting off my lawn are outrageous
RE: Some funny stats in the second article  
Mike in Philly : 4/27/2016 8:29 am : link
In comment 12923499 mfsd said:
Quote:
Only 42 percent support capitalism, and yet only 27% support government intervention in the economy. Yet over 70% support legalizing marijuana.

Which makes me think many of them are still too busy smoking weed and playing video games.

But have faith, they will grow up and act like adults eventually.

Right?

That's the theory. We're so screwed if they don't...
Demographic trends drive the economy...  
x meadowlander : 4/27/2016 8:41 am : link
...as importantly as any other factor - Americans tend to spend the most when they hit their 40's and 50's - Baby Boomers hit their big spending years when Bill Clinton was President - Millenials can be expected to have the same impact.

Their views are skewed by the woes since 2007  
njm : 4/27/2016 8:50 am : link
And face it, that's most of their cognizant lives. Let them pay $6.50 per gallon for gas and force them to drive a Lada for 6 months and capitalism will make a rebound.




Either that or an improving economy.
Skewed by reality.  
x meadowlander : 4/27/2016 8:56 am : link
The last 15 years wasn't some kind of 6-month fluke. I'd venture to say that they are more rooted in reality than those of us holding on to the last century.
Mathematically, it should be a good thing  
mfsd : 4/27/2016 9:04 am : link
Percentage of workers paying into social security, healthcare, etc going up, percentage of retirees living on such benefits going down.

But that of course assumes they are able to find good paying jobs for the long term, no sure thing anymore
Generation Bitch  
Greg from LI : 4/27/2016 9:05 am : link
.
RE: Skewed by reality.  
njm : 4/27/2016 9:09 am : link
In comment 12923565 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
The last 15 years wasn't some kind of 6-month fluke. I'd venture to say that they are more rooted in reality than those of us holding on to the last century.


Then they can consider that while their smartphone was manufactured in China it was developed in the US. And they're not telling all their friends about it on Facebookski which can't reach their new friends in Cuba.
Oh this is going to go over well  
Tyrion : 4/27/2016 9:11 am : link
.
People love to blame millenials  
AnyoneButPhilly : 4/27/2016 9:18 am : link
but this is what happens when you raise a kid to believe they are a unique little snowflake. these kids were told that a good education was the key to being successful in life. they paid a hell of a lot more for their college education than generations before only to find that there are few jobs available for them in a market flooded with people with degrees.
Bernie 2016!  
Chef : 4/27/2016 9:22 am : link
.
RE: Some funny stats in the second article  
Jim in Fairfax : 4/27/2016 9:26 am : link
In comment 12923499 mfsd said:
Quote:
Only 42 percent support capitalism, and yet only 27% support government intervention in the economy. Yet over 70% support legalizing marijuana.

Which makes me think many of them are still too busy smoking weed and playing video games.

But have faith, they will grow up and act like adults eventually.

Right?

Act like adults? You mean like how the older generations have spent the last few decades demanding lower taxes and higher government benefits?
Blaming the millenials for all the world's woes is silly...  
Dunedin81 : 4/27/2016 9:28 am : link
the "Greatest Generation" raised the Baby Boomers, who fucked most things up and in turn raised the millenials. It's everyone's fault.
Everyone except Generation X  
Greg from LI : 4/27/2016 9:30 am : link
wooooohoooo!
Millenials do not believe in individualism  
ArcadeSlumlord : 4/27/2016 9:36 am : link
they are not scared of the world like baby boomers post world wars. Born and raised in a world of unity where we are all connected by the internet it could be that there is less pessimism. Product of their environment and technology.
Keep bashing millennials  
napoleon : 4/27/2016 9:38 am : link
it is not our fault our parents raised us like babies who are so confused we need laws to know which bathroom to use or require a "safe" place on campus to cry.

Hippies were a waste of space too but I guess they ended up alright. You hippies did drugs, dressed like idiots, protested wars etc. still you managed to eventually get your heads out of your asses, get jobs, buy homes and raise kids.
RE: Some funny stats in the second article  
Section331 : 4/27/2016 9:40 am : link
In comment 12923499 mfsd said:
Quote:
Only 42 percent support capitalism, and yet only 27% support government intervention in the economy. Yet over 70% support legalizing marijuana.


Are we sure that's any different than the population at large? Maybe not with the negative views of capitalism, but we saw polls all the time where the results seem to contradict each other. That isn't unique to millennials.

I think the fact that they grew up with social media influences so much of this. They know what their peers think about EVERYTHING, which has both positive and negative consequences. When you talk to millennials, they don't get much of the inherent bigotry in our society, whether it is targeted at minorities, LGBT, or whoever. On the flip side, the preoccupation with social media and connected devices in general gives them less of an attention span. We need to take the good with the bad, every generation has them.
Looks like an upcoming generation will once again learn the  
PatersonPlank : 4/27/2016 9:43 am : link
pitfalls of socialism. Then we will have another 80 years of running from it. People need to relearn history.
Wired ran an article a couple days ago...  
Dunedin81 : 4/27/2016 9:45 am : link
that actually claimed that Venezuela's problems were a result of electrification not being able to keep pace with robust economic growth. Pravda couldn't have hammered that square peg into a round hole any better.
RE: Keep bashing millennials  
Moondawg : 4/27/2016 9:54 am : link
In comment 12923664 napoleon said:
Quote:
it is not our fault our parents raised us like babies who are so confused we need laws to know which bathroom to use or require a "safe" place on campus to cry.

Hippies were a waste of space too but I guess they ended up alright. You hippies did drugs, dressed like idiots, protested wars etc. still you managed to eventually get your heads out of your asses, get jobs, buy homes and raise kids.


Actually, the hippies just sucked.
Isn't it kind to the norm  
pjcas18 : 4/27/2016 9:55 am : link
for every generation to bash the next one?

it seems like they all say the sky is falling, these kids are so dumb, I fear for when they will be leading us, they don't know where equatorial new guinea is on a map or who the VP is (based on sound bytes and selective interviews), they have no work ethic and they're lazy, (back in my day...), they don't have respect, etc. and then the complainers get old, complain more, and then die, rinse and repeat.
Just from my experience...  
Metnut : 4/27/2016 10:03 am : link
but millenials seem more aware of how things in 2016 than boomers are, and it's not even close to be frank.

Millenials have also felt the sting of unchecked capitalism since so many graduated from college in debt and couldn't find jobs because of the financial crisis, so it makes sense that they might prefer a European style safety net.

RE: Some funny stats in the second article  
Bramton1 : 4/27/2016 10:07 am : link
In comment 12923499 mfsd said:
Quote:
Only 42 percent support capitalism, and yet only 27% support government intervention in the economy. Yet over 70% support legalizing marijuana.

Which makes me think many of them are still too busy smoking weed and playing video games.

But have faith, they will grow up and act like adults eventually.

Right?


I guess it depends what your definition of growing up means. Look at the current presidential election cycle. Of the four most serious remaining candidates, you have one candidate who isn't a politician (Trump), one candidate who considers himself anti-establishment (Cruz), and one candidate who is a Democratic Socialist who rejects free-reign capitalism (Sanders). The remaining candidate, the only establishment politician, is labeled as dishonest and untrustworthy.

So it's really not a surprise that Millenials are rejecting free-reign capitalism and don't trust the government. And I don't expect that to change.
It will change  
pjcas18 : 4/27/2016 10:10 am : link
once they get jobs, get married, have kids, buy a house, etc..it might take a little longer to get established now than it did previously. "40 is the new 30" has so merit to it as people get married older, have kids older, and live longer.

like it does with every other generation.

college-aged people are not the best gauge of a generation in case that wasn't obvious.
This is always funny. The world changes, generations change with it,  
kicker : 4/27/2016 10:11 am : link
but old people freak out that we're not pushing a hoop with a stick. Of course the Millenials are going to act differently, and hold different attitudes, than previous generations.

By the way, since Millenials are actually starting to save, you better fucking pray they will be willing to fund SS and Medicare in the future; you know, the only things preventing millions of Americans with severe health issues and no private retirement savings from misery?
I love the ragging on various generations  
Patrick77 : 4/27/2016 10:14 am : link
The funny thing is the cohort coming after the millennials in my experience are the true disrupters. Meeting more and more self-driven people i would call kids doing very entrepreneurial things and not feeling the need for "higher education" with the entire world at their finger tips. Maybe this isn't the norm, but if more followed this way of thinking millennials will be left in the dust with everyone else.
''This upcoming generation had better learn  
Overseer : 4/27/2016 10:17 am : link
the pitfalls of Socialism.

Oh good, our social security checks are here. And Honey, we need to visit Dr. Johnson tomorrow for your boner bills. Does Medicare cover lube? I am drier than the Sahara down there. God bless Medicare. Oh would you look at that? I’m watching my programs and some young rapscallion politician on the television is talking about raising our taxes. Disgusting. Oh and that ISIS! We’ve got to blow them to kingdom come. Thank God for our massive ass-kicking military.

Honey? The lube?”

--

You are what you do, not what you say. Character is built through struggle. Not without its problems, I see remarkable promise in generation Millennial, unfortunately in part checked by circumstances they did not create. The generations ahead of them are still largely in charge and should be serious about fostering the systemic changes needed to ensure our continued prosperity. They've fucked up a lot, but chief is this acceptance of living like a big gov't country while being taxed as a small one. Debt has hitherto bridged the gap, but eventually something's gotta give.

And only 70% support legalization?? I submit that the other 30% were too stoned to respond to the poll, giggling and reaching for more Cheetos. On that issue at least, they get it.
RE: ''This upcoming generation had better learn  
njm : 4/27/2016 10:28 am : link
In comment 12923774 Overseer said:
Quote:
They've fucked up a lot, but chief is this acceptance of living like a big gov't country while being taxed as a small one. Debt has hitherto bridged the gap, but eventually something's gotta give.


Combining a response to both you and Metnut:

"As opposed to Europeans who accept being taxed like a big gov't country but expect benefits like an even BIGGER government country. Eventually something's got to give."

The problem is the millennials have already learned  
Patrick77 : 4/27/2016 10:31 am : link
the pitfalls of crony/corrupted capitalism, an idealized, perceived fairer state of things looks pretty tempting. I can't blame the millions of millennials who have had a markedly different life than mine up to this point.
RE: It will change  
Bramton1 : 4/27/2016 10:31 am : link
In comment 12923759 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
once they get jobs, get married, have kids, buy a house, etc..it might take a little longer to get established now than it did previously. "40 is the new 30" has so merit to it as people get married older, have kids older, and live longer.

like it does with every other generation.

college-aged people are not the best gauge of a generation in case that wasn't obvious.


Well, the problem is they are having trouble getting the jobs you spoke of. After incurring decades of student loan debt, those degrees aren't getting them the jobs they thought their hard work would reward them with. I don't see how an eventual job and a family are going to turn those people into lovers of unchecked capitalism.
RE: RE: ''This upcoming generation had better learn  
Dunedin81 : 4/27/2016 10:32 am : link
In comment 12923802 njm said:
Quote:
In comment 12923774 Overseer said:


Quote:


They've fucked up a lot, but chief is this acceptance of living like a big gov't country while being taxed as a small one. Debt has hitherto bridged the gap, but eventually something's gotta give.




Combining a response to both you and Metnut:

"As opposed to Europeans who accept being taxed like a big gov't country but expect benefits like an even BIGGER government country. Eventually something's got to give."


To build a little on Overseer's point, which contains a lot of truth, one of the more pernicious fallacies of the last forty or so years was this notion that if you cut the government's revenue that it would reduce its spending accordingly (or rather, if you limited the growth of its revenue, it would limit the growth of its spending). This is the Grover Norquist drown it in a bathtub theory, and the end result has been that the appetite for tax cuts or loopholes or credits has been almost insatiable but the willingness to meaningfully impact spending has been almost nonexistent.
My biggest concern for them, and my own children...  
Britt in VA : 4/27/2016 10:32 am : link
is that the education system has failed to prepare them for any practical, real world application.

The one size fits all model of education, as well as a goal of passing a test rather than real world learning and application is beginning to rear it's ugly head.
What happened to them was a failed political experiment....  
Britt in VA : 4/27/2016 10:34 am : link
that their generation is paying for.
Millennials  
dust_bowl : 4/27/2016 10:36 am : link
Are the natural reaction to taking the social progress since the 60s to where mlk wanted to take things. Social justice and economic justice. "Come mothers and fathers throughout the land and don't criticize what you can't understand. Your sons and daughters are beyond your command. Your old road is rapidly fading. Please get out if the new one if you can't understand. For the times they are a changing."

Our one hope to save the world from climate disaster that the last generation threatens life with.
RE: Their views are skewed by the woes since 2007  
RB^2 : 4/27/2016 10:39 am : link
In comment 12923556 njm said:
Quote:
And face it, that's most of their cognizant lives. Let them pay $6.50 per gallon for gas and force them to drive a Lada for 6 months and capitalism will make a rebound.

Either that or an improving economy.


Have you ever driven a Lada? Don't knock it til you try it.
.....  
Route 9 : 4/27/2016 10:50 am : link
Millennial here, I was born in 1987 so yes I have to sit through all your stories about Mark Bavaro and Lawrence Taylor, which is fine, but you guys gotta give it a rest ;-)

Anyway, I’ve heard every dumb “kids these days” connection to my generation. Some of it is true and some of it isn’t. Both my parents preached education and college to me but they didn’t have it themselves. It was fine because they at first seemed like they wanted me to have the life they didn’t have or whatever. Little by little it seemed as if they wanted to live vicariously through me and they wanted me to go to college just so they can see the experience they wanted through me, which was weird.

Either way, I own land and i’m graduating college in 4 days…woohoo?

By the way, if we had all of this technology back in the 80s or whatever it would be the same thing. I mean c’mon , even 20 year olds from my classes who I’m friends with on Facebook that were born in 1995 post statuses how they grew up in a “world without technology and sunsets” bull shit. Technology is always growing and it was always there, you just didn’t have anything to compare it to, like today.
RE: RE: RE: ''This upcoming generation had better learn  
dust_bowl : 4/27/2016 10:51 am : link
In comment 12923819 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
In comment 12923802 njm said:


Quote:


In comment 12923774 Overseer said:


Quote:


They've fucked up a lot, but chief is this acceptance of living like a big gov't country while being taxed as a small one. Debt has hitherto bridged the gap, but eventually something's gotta give.




Combining a response to both you and Metnut:

"As opposed to Europeans who accept being taxed like a big gov't country but expect benefits like an even BIGGER government country. Eventually something's got to give."




To build a little on Overseer's point, which contains a lot of truth, one of the more pernicious fallacies of the last forty or so years was this notion that if you cut the government's revenue that it would reduce its spending accordingly (or rather, if you limited the growth of its revenue, it would limit the growth of its spending). This is the Grover Norquist drown it in a bathtub theory, and the end result has been that the appetite for tax cuts or loopholes or credits has been almost insatiable but the willingness to meaningfully impact spending has been almost nonexistent.
what I think this generation knows that apparently the last one doesn't,is that certain spending is great for the economy and certain spending isn't. For example a massive investment in infrastructure would be the best way to cut down the debt as well as add new jobs. But I think what pissestbis generation of the most is the blatant crony capitalism, the third world level inequality and rampant corporate welfare that pervades our elections and our economy. Our founding fathers would vomit if they saw much of what this country has done. An it's the right and the left. Both political parties are dead going forward and frankly this is the best news this country could have. It's time for another new deal.
Labeling generations is weird  
WideRight : 4/27/2016 10:54 am : link
Its a polite way of saying everybody has a voice at age twenty, but not at age forty. The drop-outs and do-nothings will lose their social status and relevance as expected. And those millenials that remain relevant at age forty will - by socioeconomic selection - not be any different from their predecessors.

Nothing to worry about really. More competition for key positions of influence will likely make the world better than we can imagine.
RE: Keep bashing millennials  
dust_bowl : 4/27/2016 10:55 am : link
In comment 12923664 napoleon said:
Quote:
it is not our fault our parents raised us like babies who are so confused we need laws to know which bathroom to use or require a "safe" place on campus to cry.

Hippies were a waste of space too but I guess they ended up alright. You hippies did drugs, dressed like idiots, protested wars etc. still you managed to eventually get your heads out of your asses, get jobs, buy homes and raise kids.
protesting a war is having your head in your ass? Thank god for Millennials who will destroy that mindset which is more Soviet then American.
on the anti-capitalism  
Les in TO : 4/27/2016 10:56 am : link
piece, it's a bit confusing to get a consistent philosophy since they also reject socialism. I think the word capitalism in some circles has been effectively branded by the left as synonymous with fat cats on wall street making billions betting against the housing market.

millenials developed the sharing/caring economy which is certainly aligned with capitalism, although disruptive of mainy traditional capitalist industries. airbnb, uber, lyft etc are all aligned with a free market ideology, whereas the left fights against these technologies with bans or crippling regulations. organizations like toms quoted in the article that have a significant corporate social responsibility bent are also popular with millenials. and policies of many private sector companies are being redesigned with the millenials in mind - no dress codes, unlimited vacation time, no offices (CEOs sit side by side with snot nosed college interns), lots of "open meeting space" and places to have fun.
RE: RE: RE: ''This upcoming generation had better learn  
Metnut : 4/27/2016 10:56 am : link
In comment 12923819 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
In comment 12923802 njm said:


Quote:

To build a little on Overseer's point, which contains a lot of truth, one of the more pernicious fallacies of the last forty or so years was this notion that if you cut the government's revenue that it would reduce its spending accordingly (or rather, if you limited the growth of its revenue, it would limit the growth of its spending). This is the Grover Norquist drown it in a bathtub theory, and the end result has been that the appetite for tax cuts or loopholes or credits has been almost insatiable but the willingness to meaningfully impact spending has been almost nonexistent.


Good post. Cutting taxes without having planned for how spending cuts are going to be made is terrible policy. Sadly, for the residents of Kansas, they are learning this the hard way right now.
RE: Blaming the millenials for all the world's woes is silly...  
Hammer : 4/27/2016 11:06 am : link
In comment 12923625 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
the "Greatest Generation" raised the Baby Boomers, who fucked most things up and in turn raised the millenials. It's everyone's fault.


^^This^^
Capitalism is still the best system, by far.  
kicker : 4/27/2016 11:12 am : link
Unfortunately, you have the same underlying problems that any other economic system suffers from; rent-seeking at the top (cronyism).

An enlightening thing about the recent recession is that it has highlighted, and brought to the public's attention, the level at which this happens.

It's not that it hasn't happened in the past; it's that it's been glossed over, because of a noticeable lack of information.
RE: RE: It will change  
pjcas18 : 4/27/2016 11:14 am : link
In comment 12923815 Bramton1 said:
Quote:
In comment 12923759 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


once they get jobs, get married, have kids, buy a house, etc..it might take a little longer to get established now than it did previously. "40 is the new 30" has so merit to it as people get married older, have kids older, and live longer.

like it does with every other generation.

college-aged people are not the best gauge of a generation in case that wasn't obvious.



Well, the problem is they are having trouble getting the jobs you spoke of. After incurring decades of student loan debt, those degrees aren't getting them the jobs they thought their hard work would reward them with. I don't see how an eventual job and a family are going to turn those people into lovers of unchecked capitalism.


I graduated college in a recession. I was a substitute teacher and worked at Stop and Shop warehouse loading trucks.

I think I know how they feel. It didn't last long and eventually I got a job in a professional field, but at that age you feel like you are going to change the world, there is a higher purpose, stuff you're "meant to do", your possessions possess you, there's a bigger purpose to life than materialism, etc. but the world beats you down and whips you into shape when your parents stop paying your rent, your food, your cell phone bill, your car insurance, your medical, etc....

it happens with every generation.

marriage, houses and kids, just make sure life beats whatever remaining utopian ideas are beaten out of you because now you have other people relying on you.

Most people rise up and grow up and accept the responsibility.

it's how society works.
I don't see how the people who are worse off than their parents were  
Patrick77 : 4/27/2016 11:18 am : link
At the same age (or worse off at 40 than their parents at 30) are going to buck up and love capitalism. Responsibility or no responsibility - the social contract has been pretty much established, each generation supposedly is supposed to do better than the previous.
most don't know who won the civil war or who the vice president is  
gtt350 : 4/27/2016 11:21 am : link
that's scary
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