At the same age (or worse off at 40 than their parents at 30) are going to buck up and love capitalism. Responsibility or no responsibility - the social contract has been pretty much established, each generation supposedly is supposed to do better than the previous.
Are the Greeks better off than their parents were? Is Western Europe in general in better shape than a generation ago? I guess you could point to China, but they were coming from $3 per day and have a lot of new problems to solve. Venezuela?
They may not love capitalism, but show me an alternative system that is producing better results.
Technology has made it that hard work doesn't always pay off
And that those with money and power can extract and wring out every last drop of money they can with less work then before. The smartest and brightest go to wall street instead of medical school or NASA etc...
So the concept of capitalism has changed. It doesn't mean work hard, compete, find your niche. It means greed that gives nothing back.
piece, it's a bit confusing to get a consistent philosophy since they also reject socialism. I think the word capitalism in some circles has been effectively branded by the left as synonymous with fat cats on wall street making billions betting against the housing market.
millenials developed the sharing/caring economy which is certainly aligned with capitalism, although disruptive of mainy traditional capitalist industries. airbnb, uber, lyft etc are all aligned with a free market ideology, whereas the left fights against these technologies with bans or crippling regulations. organizations like toms quoted in the article that have a significant corporate social responsibility bent are also popular with millenials. and policies of many private sector companies are being redesigned with the millenials in mind - no dress codes, unlimited vacation time, no offices (CEOs sit side by side with snot nosed college interns), lots of "open meeting space" and places to have fun.
this is a hysterical post. There are various forms of capitalism. There is the neo liberal version which is a fake philosophy to help the ultra rich stay rich. Then there is state capitalism or what the right calls socialism. The latter is my preference.
It is also false these ideas are unique to Millennials. Majority of Americans have thought the system corrupt for decades. Hence why most don't bother to vote are our voting turnout is embarrassing. There are third world countries out there who could give us a real lesson on democracy.
RE: RE: I don't see how the people who are worse off than their parents were
At the same age (or worse off at 40 than their parents at 30) are going to buck up and love capitalism. Responsibility or no responsibility - the social contract has been pretty much established, each generation supposedly is supposed to do better than the previous.
Are the Greeks better off than their parents were? Is Western Europe in general in better shape than a generation ago? I guess you could point to China, but they were coming from $3 per day and have a lot of new problems to solve. Venezuela?
They may not love capitalism, but show me an alternative system that is producing better results.
I'm not arguing against capitalism. I'm arguing that the effects of what has happened recently and in this generation mean that their viewpoint is markedly different than the historical norm.
RE: RE: RE: I don't see how the people who are worse off than their parents were
At the same age (or worse off at 40 than their parents at 30) are going to buck up and love capitalism. Responsibility or no responsibility - the social contract has been pretty much established, each generation supposedly is supposed to do better than the previous.
Are the Greeks better off than their parents were? Is Western Europe in general in better shape than a generation ago? I guess you could point to China, but they were coming from $3 per day and have a lot of new problems to solve. Venezuela?
They may not love capitalism, but show me an alternative system that is producing better results.
I'm not arguing against capitalism. I'm arguing that the effects of what has happened recently and in this generation mean that their viewpoint is markedly different than the historical norm.
europe is way better off then the United States in every measurable level. Pointing to Greece is like saying capitalism failed be cause Alabama is poor. There is a simple solution. State capitalism.
RE: RE: I don't see how the people who are worse off than their parents were
At the same age (or worse off at 40 than their parents at 30) are going to buck up and love capitalism. Responsibility or no responsibility - the social contract has been pretty much established, each generation supposedly is supposed to do better than the previous.
Are the Greeks better off than their parents were? Is Western Europe in general in better shape than a generation ago? I guess you could point to China, but they were coming from $3 per day and have a lot of new problems to solve. Venezuela?
They may not love capitalism, but show me an alternative system that is producing better results.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not sure that millenials are really supporting the type of wide scale tax fraud that occurred in Greece, or the type of wide-scale corruption and theft that occurs daily via the government in Venezuala.
I think millenials might prefer the type of capitalism/socialism blend that's led to relative prosperity (for more than just the wealthy citizens) in Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, New Zealand Finland etc. None of these countries are perfect, and the demographics and scale are a bit different than here, but are better examples than completely failed states like Greece/Venezuala.
There have been a number of recent articles on it, but
Sweden and other Nordic countries are much more "free market" than the US.
In some ways it certainly is. It also employs a ton of people in the public sector, has a generous social safety net, and labor federations have a stronger presence than unions in the U.S. which are declining in influence.
That's why socialism vs capitalism isn't really the right argument IMO. Pretty much every country has pieces of both. Millenials seem to want a stronger safety net at the cost of higher taxes on the wealthiest citizens.
I'll leave the last word to other. I feel like I'm getting political here, so am going to bow out.
it is not our fault our parents raised us like babies who are so confused we need laws to know which bathroom to use or require a "safe" place on campus to cry.
Hippies were a waste of space too but I guess they ended up alright. You hippies did drugs, dressed like idiots, protested wars etc. still you managed to eventually get your heads out of your asses, get jobs, buy homes and raise kids.
Older generations have been getting annoyed at younger generations forever. Gen X was a bunch of slackers.
it is not our fault our parents raised us like babies who are so confused we need laws to know which bathroom to use or require a "safe" place on campus to cry.
Hippies were a waste of space too but I guess they ended up alright. You hippies did drugs, dressed like idiots, protested wars etc. still you managed to eventually get your heads out of your asses, get jobs, buy homes and raise kids.
Older generations have been getting annoyed at younger generations forever. Gen X was a bunch of slackers.
Kids, I don't know what's wrong with these kids today
Kids, who can understand anything they say?
Kids, they are disobedient, disrespectful oafs
Noisy, crazy, sloppy, lazy, loafers
And while we're on the subject
Kids, you can talk and talk till your face is blue
Kids, but they still do just what they want to do
Why can't they be like we were, perfect in every way?
What's the matter with kids today?
RE: RE: There have been a number of recent articles on it, but
Millenials seem to want a stronger safety net at the cost of higher taxes on the wealthiest citizens.
Except that's not the way Europe (mentioned elsewhere in this thread) does it. Income taxes on the wealthy vary, but taken as a group are higher, but not THAT much higher, than the US. There are also loopholes (no capital gains taxes in the Netherlands e.g.) like the US.
Where Europe raises a lot more revenue than the US is through gas taxes and a VAT. Gas taxes are a multiple of what you pay in the US, and have been that way well before anyone used the terms "climate change" and "global warming". They were instituted to raise revenue. I'll characterized a VAT as a national sales tax devised by a committee. Also a major revenue raiser.
So the 1% are not providing the lion's share of the funding for these programs.
RE: RE: RE: There have been a number of recent articles on it, but
Millenials seem to want a stronger safety net at the cost of higher taxes on the wealthiest citizens.
Except that's not the way Europe (mentioned elsewhere in this thread) does it. Income taxes on the wealthy vary, but taken as a group are higher, but not THAT much higher, than the US. There are also loopholes (no capital gains taxes in the Netherlands e.g.) like the US.
Where Europe raises a lot more revenue than the US is through gas taxes and a VAT. Gas taxes are a multiple of what you pay in the US, and have been that way well before anyone used the terms "climate change" and "global warming". They were instituted to raise revenue. I'll characterized a VAT as a national sales tax devised by a committee. Also a major revenue raiser.
So the 1% are not providing the lion's share of the funding for these programs.
it's different. The income gap in Europe is not nearly as bad. Here the coptorste welfare recipients will begging paying sooner or later.
Sweden and other Nordic countries are much more "free market" than the US.
Don't you know that's propaganda?
At least that is what I am told when mention that?
it's just not simply true what he wrote. In the United States there is virtually no free market. What there is is a state controlled system that makes certain the ultra rich maintain that disparity. In America our government is merely a unification of elite interests. It's sort of like the nfl where 30 rich owners come together and grant authority to the commissioner. Sometimes and individual wealthy industries needs succumb to the will of the many. Free markets are a major myth in all this. In fact our economy would collapse in ten seconds if we ever say cut the military significantly. Our economy relies on military production and sales of arms to survive. Yet this is a fundamentally socialist enterprise. One where the rich are the welfare recipients. To think America is a capitalist country in the sense it's being used here is to completely misunderstand what you are talking about. Europe is flawed no doubt. But when it comes to the economy the people have Europe have been able to become a million times more democratic than the anti democratic us, and by doing so, they have imposed shaper restrictions on their oligarchs allowing s fairer distribution of wealth.
Millenials seem to want a stronger safety net at the cost of higher taxes on the wealthiest citizens.
Except that's not the way Europe (mentioned elsewhere in this thread) does it. Income taxes on the wealthy vary, but taken as a group are higher, but not THAT much higher, than the US. There are also loopholes (no capital gains taxes in the Netherlands e.g.) like the US.
Where Europe raises a lot more revenue than the US is through gas taxes and a VAT. Gas taxes are a multiple of what you pay in the US, and have been that way well before anyone used the terms "climate change" and "global warming". They were instituted to raise revenue. I'll characterized a VAT as a national sales tax devised by a committee. Also a major revenue raiser.
So the 1% are not providing the lion's share of the funding for these programs.
Fair enough (re: VAT versus 1%), but there's more than one way to skin a cat. Are we sure that a VAT (with suitable exemptions) is a non-starter in the US forever?
Millenials live closer to urban centers and drive a lot less than their parents, so I think they'd generally support higher gas taxes to support a stronger safety net, although millenials would likely be split on this one.
after all this time, people still don't know better than to engage
Millenials seem to want a stronger safety net at the cost of higher taxes on the wealthiest citizens.
Except that's not the way Europe (mentioned elsewhere in this thread) does it. Income taxes on the wealthy vary, but taken as a group are higher, but not THAT much higher, than the US. There are also loopholes (no capital gains taxes in the Netherlands e.g.) like the US.
Where Europe raises a lot more revenue than the US is through gas taxes and a VAT. Gas taxes are a multiple of what you pay in the US, and have been that way well before anyone used the terms "climate change" and "global warming". They were instituted to raise revenue. I'll characterized a VAT as a national sales tax devised by a committee. Also a major revenue raiser.
So the 1% are not providing the lion's share of the funding for these programs.
Fair enough (re: VAT versus 1%), but there's more than one way to skin a cat. Are we sure that a VAT (with suitable exemptions) is a non-starter in the US forever?
Millenials live closer to urban centers and drive a lot less than their parents, so I think they'd generally support higher gas taxes to support a stronger safety net, although millenials would likely be split on this one.
one the poster wrote your responding to is a complete misrepresentation. In large part they don't need to pay higher taxes because income is much more evenly distributed. In the us oligarchic system the poor can rot while the rich can buy elections and mansions. The older generations owe us an apology.
RE: after all this time, people still don't know better than to engage
you and kicker can go fuck your tight ass selves. Just because I can run circles around your brains and you can't argue on content doesn't give you the right to engage in ad hominem attacks. I have stayed on topic. You two have realized your not on the same level. Thus you respond with anger. That is you being a troll. All you have to do is either refute my points or take the latter.....which is to compare me to shit. That is the method of the defeated. That is the method of s loser. "Ah duh but America is great, if people criticize it their trolls. If I can't articulate a response I pound my chest and throw feces at them." Lol dumb simpletons.
RE: RE: RE: RE: There have been a number of recent articles on it, but
Are we sure that a VAT (with suitable exemptions) is a non-starter in the US forever?
Something like 47 states already impose a sales tax. I'm not aware of anything like that in Europe. To add a VAT to a transaction already subject to a sales tax is something I'm not sure would be acceptable, nor am I sure it should be.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: There have been a number of recent articles on it, but
Are we sure that a VAT (with suitable exemptions) is a non-starter in the US forever?
Something like 47 states already impose a sales tax. I'm not aware of anything like that in Europe. To add a VAT to a transaction already subject to a sales tax is something I'm not sure would be acceptable, nor am I sure it should be.
they don't need to cause they don't have a slave economy.
The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
piece, it's a bit confusing to get a consistent philosophy since they also reject socialism. I think the word capitalism in some circles has been effectively branded by the left as synonymous with fat cats on wall street making billions betting against the housing market.
millenials developed the sharing/caring economy which is certainly aligned with capitalism, although disruptive of mainy traditional capitalist industries. airbnb, uber, lyft etc are all aligned with a free market ideology, whereas the left fights against these technologies with bans or crippling regulations. organizations like toms quoted in the article that have a significant corporate social responsibility bent are also popular with millenials. and policies of many private sector companies are being redesigned with the millenials in mind - no dress codes, unlimited vacation time, no offices (CEOs sit side by side with snot nosed college interns), lots of "open meeting space" and places to have fun.
this is a hysterical post. There are various forms of capitalism. There is the neo liberal version which is a fake philosophy to help the ultra rich stay rich. Then there is state capitalism or what the right calls socialism. The latter is my preference.
"State capitalism" is deployed by countries like North Korea, Saudi Arabia, cuba, and China and previously USSR. If you prefer that system, by all means, emigrate. You may have trouble accessing BBI, but you will get a lovely framed photo of kim jong il, chairman mao, the Saudi princes or the castros for your 100 square ft apartment.
Are we sure that a VAT (with suitable exemptions) is a non-starter in the US forever?
Something like 47 states already impose a sales tax. I'm not aware of anything like that in Europe. To add a VAT to a transaction already subject to a sales tax is something I'm not sure would be acceptable, nor am I sure it should be.
they don't need to cause they don't have a slave economy.
If you hate this country so much why don't you get the fuck out of it?
RE: RE: after all this time, people still don't know better than to engage
Are we sure that a VAT (with suitable exemptions) is a non-starter in the US forever?
Something like 47 states already impose a sales tax. I'm not aware of anything like that in Europe. To add a VAT to a transaction already subject to a sales tax is something I'm not sure would be acceptable, nor am I sure it should be.
they don't need to cause they don't have a slave economy.
If you hate this country so much why don't you get the fuck out of it?
funny you say that. Stalin used to say that to soviet dissidents.
Back to reality, I love this country. I simply want it to live up to its ideals which it is failing miserably at. Further, the country to me isn't a bunch of rich corporations who now dominate our society. It's striking miners and workers. It's protesters demanding gender equality. It's black lives matter demanding racial equality. It's occupy Wall Street fighting to tell banks to stop gambling with people's livelihoods and demanding we pay the bookie. It's soldiers forgotten when they come home and left to peddle for change in a wheelchair or struggling with pstd while laws ban marijuana to help treat them forcing them to rely on actual big pharmaceutical drugs. I don't worship leaders from Bernie to trump. I worship everyday people from all walks of life who are the backbone of this country and tired of having ten people own as much well as 150 million. People standing together. That's how we got rid of slavery. That's how we got same labor laws. That's how we got decent environmental protections. Always opposed by the intellectual class who tells stories about how we're really good and if we use violence it must be for the general good cause we represent the course of history. That's the job for propagandists for power and violence. It's the task of populations to free themselves from those doctrinal constraints.
The more things change the more they stay the same
To read these posts here you would think the Millennial's are the first generation to come of age in a lousy economy, face an election with unsavory candidates or find out that a college degree in basketweaving would not get them a job. Younger baby boomers such as myself that came of age during the the lat Nixon-Ford and Carter administrations also faced a horrible economy. Even minimum wage jobs were scarce. I remember the local Burger King put you on a waiting list if you wanted to apply. I also remember that people with advanced degrees in things like sociology were working as waiters.
Older baby boomers had to deal with the draft, which was worse than anything succeeding generations have had to deal with. As for that ridiculous Harvard poll i doubt that half the respondents have any idea what Capitalism and Socialism are. The same would have held true had they polled older generations.
To read these posts here you would think the Millennial's are the first generation to come of age in a lousy economy, face an election with unsavory candidates or find out that a college degree in basketweaving would not get them a job. Younger baby boomers such as myself that came of age during the the lat Nixon-Ford and Carter administrations also faced a horrible economy. Even minimum wage jobs were scarce. I remember the local Burger King put you on a waiting list if you wanted to apply. I also remember that people with advanced degrees in things like sociology were working as waiters.
Older baby boomers had to deal with the draft, which was worse than anything succeeding generations have had to deal with. As for that ridiculous Harvard poll i doubt that half the respondents have any idea what Capitalism and Socialism are. The same would have held true had they polled older generations.
One urban myth I wish would go away, that Boomers universally had employers lined up offering them cushy jobs with unreal benefits and 6 weeks paid vacations. The situation varied over those years with both good and bad. And anyone who graduated from college between '74 and '76 and then between '79 and '82 experienced a job market very similar to today. The one area where it's worse today is the level of student loans. But that's not saying student loans were unheard of or rare back then.
Actually, the best job market I've seen was from '96 to '99, and the primary beneficiaries were Gen-ex.
RE: There have been a number of recent articles on it, but
To read these posts here you would think the Millennial's are the first generation to come of age in a lousy economy, face an election with unsavory candidates or find out that a college degree in basketweaving would not get them a job. Younger baby boomers such as myself that came of age during the the lat Nixon-Ford and Carter administrations also faced a horrible economy. Even minimum wage jobs were scarce. I remember the local Burger King put you on a waiting list if you wanted to apply. I also remember that people with advanced degrees in things like sociology were working as waiters.
Older baby boomers had to deal with the draft, which was worse than anything succeeding generations have had to deal with. As for that ridiculous Harvard poll i doubt that half the respondents have any idea what Capitalism and Socialism are. The same would have held true had they polled older generations.
One urban myth I wish would go away, that Boomers universally had employers lined up offering them cushy jobs with unreal benefits and 6 weeks paid vacations. The situation varied over those years with both good and bad. And anyone who graduated from college between '74 and '76 and then between '79 and '82 experienced a job market very similar to today. The one area where it's worse today is the level of student loans. But that's not saying student loans were unheard of or rare back then.
Actually, the best job market I've seen was from '96 to '99, and the primary beneficiaries were Gen-ex.
I don't know that any Boomers got cushy jobs right out of school. If anything that is more true for Millennials than it is for Boomers. Top engineering and CS grads are courted like ballplayers. There's an article about it on Bloomberg today at http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-27/do-you-earn-less-than-a-silicon-valley-intern
Boomers never had such opportunities. When I was in school it was generally accepted that there were 3 ways to make good money.
1. Go to medical school
2. Go to law school
3. Get a job with a blue chip corporation
In all three cases it was a given that you would spend many years busting your ass before you started making real money. Nowadays, and I've seen this in my own family a bright kid may make a higher salary in his/her first year of employment than their parents ever did.
I loathe the von Mises Institute, as they are no better (usually) than a bunch of quacks, but if they endorse something as free market, it must really be free market.
Kids, I don't know what's wrong with these kids today
Kids, who can understand anything they say?
Kids, they are disobedient, disrespectful oafs
Noisy, crazy, sloppy, lazy, loafers
And while we're on the subject
Kids, you can talk and talk till your face is blue
Kids, but they still do just what they want to do
Why can't they be like we were, perfect in every way?
What's the matter with kids today?
To read these posts here you would think the Millennial's are the first generation to come of age in a lousy economy, face an election with unsavory candidates or find out that a college degree in basketweaving would not get them a job. Younger baby boomers such as myself that came of age during the the lat Nixon-Ford and Carter administrations also faced a horrible economy. Even minimum wage jobs were scarce. I remember the local Burger King put you on a waiting list if you wanted to apply. I also remember that people with advanced degrees in things like sociology were working as waiters.
Older baby boomers had to deal with the draft, which was worse than anything succeeding generations have had to deal with. As for that ridiculous Harvard poll i doubt that half the respondents have any idea what Capitalism and Socialism are. The same would have held true had they polled older generations.
hard to imagine someone more delusional. Wage decline has gone on steadily since the late 1970s and was no accident. So even if you grew up in a tough economy it's simple false to compare it to today. Educate yourself a little. You also the costs of college, the relative impotence of it, the loss of manufacturing jobs, etc.
Are the Greeks better off than their parents were? Is Western Europe in general in better shape than a generation ago? I guess you could point to China, but they were coming from $3 per day and have a lot of new problems to solve. Venezuela?
They may not love capitalism, but show me an alternative system that is producing better results.
So the concept of capitalism has changed. It doesn't mean work hard, compete, find your niche. It means greed that gives nothing back.
millenials developed the sharing/caring economy which is certainly aligned with capitalism, although disruptive of mainy traditional capitalist industries. airbnb, uber, lyft etc are all aligned with a free market ideology, whereas the left fights against these technologies with bans or crippling regulations. organizations like toms quoted in the article that have a significant corporate social responsibility bent are also popular with millenials. and policies of many private sector companies are being redesigned with the millenials in mind - no dress codes, unlimited vacation time, no offices (CEOs sit side by side with snot nosed college interns), lots of "open meeting space" and places to have fun.
Quote:
At the same age (or worse off at 40 than their parents at 30) are going to buck up and love capitalism. Responsibility or no responsibility - the social contract has been pretty much established, each generation supposedly is supposed to do better than the previous.
Are the Greeks better off than their parents were? Is Western Europe in general in better shape than a generation ago? I guess you could point to China, but they were coming from $3 per day and have a lot of new problems to solve. Venezuela?
They may not love capitalism, but show me an alternative system that is producing better results.
I'm not arguing against capitalism. I'm arguing that the effects of what has happened recently and in this generation mean that their viewpoint is markedly different than the historical norm.
Quote:
In comment 12923993 Patrick77 said:
Quote:
At the same age (or worse off at 40 than their parents at 30) are going to buck up and love capitalism. Responsibility or no responsibility - the social contract has been pretty much established, each generation supposedly is supposed to do better than the previous.
Are the Greeks better off than their parents were? Is Western Europe in general in better shape than a generation ago? I guess you could point to China, but they were coming from $3 per day and have a lot of new problems to solve. Venezuela?
They may not love capitalism, but show me an alternative system that is producing better results.
I'm not arguing against capitalism. I'm arguing that the effects of what has happened recently and in this generation mean that their viewpoint is markedly different than the historical norm.
Quote:
At the same age (or worse off at 40 than their parents at 30) are going to buck up and love capitalism. Responsibility or no responsibility - the social contract has been pretty much established, each generation supposedly is supposed to do better than the previous.
Are the Greeks better off than their parents were? Is Western Europe in general in better shape than a generation ago? I guess you could point to China, but they were coming from $3 per day and have a lot of new problems to solve. Venezuela?
They may not love capitalism, but show me an alternative system that is producing better results.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not sure that millenials are really supporting the type of wide scale tax fraud that occurred in Greece, or the type of wide-scale corruption and theft that occurs daily via the government in Venezuala.
I think millenials might prefer the type of capitalism/socialism blend that's led to relative prosperity (for more than just the wealthy citizens) in Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, New Zealand Finland etc. None of these countries are perfect, and the demographics and scale are a bit different than here, but are better examples than completely failed states like Greece/Venezuala.
Comparing a state to a sovereign country???
Interesting is all I can say.
Don't you know that's propaganda?
At least that is what I am told when mention that?
In some ways it certainly is. It also employs a ton of people in the public sector, has a generous social safety net, and labor federations have a stronger presence than unions in the U.S. which are declining in influence.
That's why socialism vs capitalism isn't really the right argument IMO. Pretty much every country has pieces of both. Millenials seem to want a stronger safety net at the cost of higher taxes on the wealthiest citizens.
I'll leave the last word to other. I feel like I'm getting political here, so am going to bow out.
Hippies were a waste of space too but I guess they ended up alright. You hippies did drugs, dressed like idiots, protested wars etc. still you managed to eventually get your heads out of your asses, get jobs, buy homes and raise kids.
Older generations have been getting annoyed at younger generations forever. Gen X was a bunch of slackers.
Quote:
it is not our fault our parents raised us like babies who are so confused we need laws to know which bathroom to use or require a "safe" place on campus to cry.
Hippies were a waste of space too but I guess they ended up alright. You hippies did drugs, dressed like idiots, protested wars etc. still you managed to eventually get your heads out of your asses, get jobs, buy homes and raise kids.
Older generations have been getting annoyed at younger generations forever. Gen X was a bunch of slackers.
Kids, I don't know what's wrong with these kids today
Kids, who can understand anything they say?
Kids, they are disobedient, disrespectful oafs
Noisy, crazy, sloppy, lazy, loafers
And while we're on the subject
Kids, you can talk and talk till your face is blue
Kids, but they still do just what they want to do
Why can't they be like we were, perfect in every way?
What's the matter with kids today?
Millenials seem to want a stronger safety net at the cost of higher taxes on the wealthiest citizens.
Except that's not the way Europe (mentioned elsewhere in this thread) does it. Income taxes on the wealthy vary, but taken as a group are higher, but not THAT much higher, than the US. There are also loopholes (no capital gains taxes in the Netherlands e.g.) like the US.
Where Europe raises a lot more revenue than the US is through gas taxes and a VAT. Gas taxes are a multiple of what you pay in the US, and have been that way well before anyone used the terms "climate change" and "global warming". They were instituted to raise revenue. I'll characterized a VAT as a national sales tax devised by a committee. Also a major revenue raiser.
So the 1% are not providing the lion's share of the funding for these programs.
Quote:
Millenials seem to want a stronger safety net at the cost of higher taxes on the wealthiest citizens.
Except that's not the way Europe (mentioned elsewhere in this thread) does it. Income taxes on the wealthy vary, but taken as a group are higher, but not THAT much higher, than the US. There are also loopholes (no capital gains taxes in the Netherlands e.g.) like the US.
Where Europe raises a lot more revenue than the US is through gas taxes and a VAT. Gas taxes are a multiple of what you pay in the US, and have been that way well before anyone used the terms "climate change" and "global warming". They were instituted to raise revenue. I'll characterized a VAT as a national sales tax devised by a committee. Also a major revenue raiser.
So the 1% are not providing the lion's share of the funding for these programs.
How did we survive rock and roll?
I, for one, am glad that the next generation is taking over. It's the way it is and always has been. No one screwed anything up.
Just because humanity did or didn't evolved in some preconceived utopian vision that is unique in all of us is meaningless.
History happened and as every day passes, it too becomes history.
Quote:
Sweden and other Nordic countries are much more "free market" than the US.
Don't you know that's propaganda?
At least that is what I am told when mention that?
Comparing a state to a sovereign country???
Interesting is all I can say.
Quote:
Millenials seem to want a stronger safety net at the cost of higher taxes on the wealthiest citizens.
Except that's not the way Europe (mentioned elsewhere in this thread) does it. Income taxes on the wealthy vary, but taken as a group are higher, but not THAT much higher, than the US. There are also loopholes (no capital gains taxes in the Netherlands e.g.) like the US.
Where Europe raises a lot more revenue than the US is through gas taxes and a VAT. Gas taxes are a multiple of what you pay in the US, and have been that way well before anyone used the terms "climate change" and "global warming". They were instituted to raise revenue. I'll characterized a VAT as a national sales tax devised by a committee. Also a major revenue raiser.
So the 1% are not providing the lion's share of the funding for these programs.
Fair enough (re: VAT versus 1%), but there's more than one way to skin a cat. Are we sure that a VAT (with suitable exemptions) is a non-starter in the US forever?
Millenials live closer to urban centers and drive a lot less than their parents, so I think they'd generally support higher gas taxes to support a stronger safety net, although millenials would likely be split on this one.
Cmon.
For fuck's sake.
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In comment 12924421 Metnut said:
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Millenials seem to want a stronger safety net at the cost of higher taxes on the wealthiest citizens.
Except that's not the way Europe (mentioned elsewhere in this thread) does it. Income taxes on the wealthy vary, but taken as a group are higher, but not THAT much higher, than the US. There are also loopholes (no capital gains taxes in the Netherlands e.g.) like the US.
Where Europe raises a lot more revenue than the US is through gas taxes and a VAT. Gas taxes are a multiple of what you pay in the US, and have been that way well before anyone used the terms "climate change" and "global warming". They were instituted to raise revenue. I'll characterized a VAT as a national sales tax devised by a committee. Also a major revenue raiser.
So the 1% are not providing the lion's share of the funding for these programs.
Fair enough (re: VAT versus 1%), but there's more than one way to skin a cat. Are we sure that a VAT (with suitable exemptions) is a non-starter in the US forever?
Millenials live closer to urban centers and drive a lot less than their parents, so I think they'd generally support higher gas taxes to support a stronger safety net, although millenials would likely be split on this one.
Cmon.
Are we sure that a VAT (with suitable exemptions) is a non-starter in the US forever?
Something like 47 states already impose a sales tax. I'm not aware of anything like that in Europe. To add a VAT to a transaction already subject to a sales tax is something I'm not sure would be acceptable, nor am I sure it should be.
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Are we sure that a VAT (with suitable exemptions) is a non-starter in the US forever?
Something like 47 states already impose a sales tax. I'm not aware of anything like that in Europe. To add a VAT to a transaction already subject to a sales tax is something I'm not sure would be acceptable, nor am I sure it should be.
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piece, it's a bit confusing to get a consistent philosophy since they also reject socialism. I think the word capitalism in some circles has been effectively branded by the left as synonymous with fat cats on wall street making billions betting against the housing market.
millenials developed the sharing/caring economy which is certainly aligned with capitalism, although disruptive of mainy traditional capitalist industries. airbnb, uber, lyft etc are all aligned with a free market ideology, whereas the left fights against these technologies with bans or crippling regulations. organizations like toms quoted in the article that have a significant corporate social responsibility bent are also popular with millenials. and policies of many private sector companies are being redesigned with the millenials in mind - no dress codes, unlimited vacation time, no offices (CEOs sit side by side with snot nosed college interns), lots of "open meeting space" and places to have fun.
this is a hysterical post. There are various forms of capitalism. There is the neo liberal version which is a fake philosophy to help the ultra rich stay rich. Then there is state capitalism or what the right calls socialism. The latter is my preference.
For fuck's sake.
Oh I do.
He just makes the most absolutely hysterical posts some.
Engage him? Never. A wall makes more sense.
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In comment 12924544 Metnut said:
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Are we sure that a VAT (with suitable exemptions) is a non-starter in the US forever?
Something like 47 states already impose a sales tax. I'm not aware of anything like that in Europe. To add a VAT to a transaction already subject to a sales tax is something I'm not sure would be acceptable, nor am I sure it should be.
they don't need to cause they don't have a slave economy.
If you hate this country so much why don't you get the fuck out of it?
Well, what makes wage slaves? WAGES! I want you to be free!
Groucho has always said it best.
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In comment 12924584 njm said:
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In comment 12924544 Metnut said:
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Are we sure that a VAT (with suitable exemptions) is a non-starter in the US forever?
Something like 47 states already impose a sales tax. I'm not aware of anything like that in Europe. To add a VAT to a transaction already subject to a sales tax is something I'm not sure would be acceptable, nor am I sure it should be.
they don't need to cause they don't have a slave economy.
If you hate this country so much why don't you get the fuck out of it?
Back to reality, I love this country. I simply want it to live up to its ideals which it is failing miserably at. Further, the country to me isn't a bunch of rich corporations who now dominate our society. It's striking miners and workers. It's protesters demanding gender equality. It's black lives matter demanding racial equality. It's occupy Wall Street fighting to tell banks to stop gambling with people's livelihoods and demanding we pay the bookie. It's soldiers forgotten when they come home and left to peddle for change in a wheelchair or struggling with pstd while laws ban marijuana to help treat them forcing them to rely on actual big pharmaceutical drugs. I don't worship leaders from Bernie to trump. I worship everyday people from all walks of life who are the backbone of this country and tired of having ten people own as much well as 150 million. People standing together. That's how we got rid of slavery. That's how we got same labor laws. That's how we got decent environmental protections. Always opposed by the intellectual class who tells stories about how we're really good and if we use violence it must be for the general good cause we represent the course of history. That's the job for propagandists for power and violence. It's the task of populations to free themselves from those doctrinal constraints.
Older baby boomers had to deal with the draft, which was worse than anything succeeding generations have had to deal with. As for that ridiculous Harvard poll i doubt that half the respondents have any idea what Capitalism and Socialism are. The same would have held true had they polled older generations.
Older baby boomers had to deal with the draft, which was worse than anything succeeding generations have had to deal with. As for that ridiculous Harvard poll i doubt that half the respondents have any idea what Capitalism and Socialism are. The same would have held true had they polled older generations.
One urban myth I wish would go away, that Boomers universally had employers lined up offering them cushy jobs with unreal benefits and 6 weeks paid vacations. The situation varied over those years with both good and bad. And anyone who graduated from college between '74 and '76 and then between '79 and '82 experienced a job market very similar to today. The one area where it's worse today is the level of student loans. But that's not saying student loans were unheard of or rare back then.
Actually, the best job market I've seen was from '96 to '99, and the primary beneficiaries were Gen-ex.
I'm interested in this, kicker. If you have a link that's not hard to find, please post.
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Sweden and other Nordic countries are much more "free market" than the US.
I'm interested in this, kicker. If you have a link that's not hard to find, please post.
Related but not exactly what you asked.
Top Corporate tax rates:
Denmark 23.5%
Finland 20%
Norway 27%
Sweden 22%
Also, all those countries use a "territorial" system of corporate taxation, with Norway the last to adopt it (2004)
Further, I believe none of those countries have the equivalent of state income taxes like the US.
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To read these posts here you would think the Millennial's are the first generation to come of age in a lousy economy, face an election with unsavory candidates or find out that a college degree in basketweaving would not get them a job. Younger baby boomers such as myself that came of age during the the lat Nixon-Ford and Carter administrations also faced a horrible economy. Even minimum wage jobs were scarce. I remember the local Burger King put you on a waiting list if you wanted to apply. I also remember that people with advanced degrees in things like sociology were working as waiters.
Older baby boomers had to deal with the draft, which was worse than anything succeeding generations have had to deal with. As for that ridiculous Harvard poll i doubt that half the respondents have any idea what Capitalism and Socialism are. The same would have held true had they polled older generations.
One urban myth I wish would go away, that Boomers universally had employers lined up offering them cushy jobs with unreal benefits and 6 weeks paid vacations. The situation varied over those years with both good and bad. And anyone who graduated from college between '74 and '76 and then between '79 and '82 experienced a job market very similar to today. The one area where it's worse today is the level of student loans. But that's not saying student loans were unheard of or rare back then.
Actually, the best job market I've seen was from '96 to '99, and the primary beneficiaries were Gen-ex.
I don't know that any Boomers got cushy jobs right out of school. If anything that is more true for Millennials than it is for Boomers. Top engineering and CS grads are courted like ballplayers. There's an article about it on Bloomberg today at http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-27/do-you-earn-less-than-a-silicon-valley-intern
Boomers never had such opportunities. When I was in school it was generally accepted that there were 3 ways to make good money.
1. Go to medical school
2. Go to law school
3. Get a job with a blue chip corporation
In all three cases it was a given that you would spend many years busting your ass before you started making real money. Nowadays, and I've seen this in my own family a bright kid may make a higher salary in his/her first year of employment than their parents ever did.
https://mises.org/library/how-modern-sweden-profits-success-its-free-market-history
There was a piece on Marginal Revolution (they have a very strong bent), who were talking about this as well. Cannot find it, at the moment.
Kids, I don't know what's wrong with these kids today
Kids, who can understand anything they say?
Kids, they are disobedient, disrespectful oafs
Noisy, crazy, sloppy, lazy, loafers
And while we're on the subject
Kids, you can talk and talk till your face is blue
Kids, but they still do just what they want to do
Why can't they be like we were, perfect in every way?
What's the matter with kids today?
We love you Conrad, oh yes we do.
Even thats easier for Millennials because its so much easier for a woman to become rich and so much more acceptable to be a "Stay at home dad"
Older baby boomers had to deal with the draft, which was worse than anything succeeding generations have had to deal with. As for that ridiculous Harvard poll i doubt that half the respondents have any idea what Capitalism and Socialism are. The same would have held true had they polled older generations.
Their concern about freedom is more likely to be wrt social issues or drugs.
They want jobs, but seem to think that job creation is a function of government.
So no, I'm not surprised that a majority of them oppose capitalism.
Their concern about freedom is more likely to be wrt social issues or drugs.
They want jobs, but seem to think that job creation is a function of government.
So no, I'm not surprised that a majority of them oppose capitalism.
A ha! They want the government to find them a job where they are allowed to do drugs!!
Just kidding.
What are you talking about? He's getting his masters and this is a social project, remember?