Phil Jacksons agents meeting points to inside job with Rambis: Knicks president Phil Jackson met with Kurt Rambis Chicago-based agents Tuesday night in New York. That may well be a sign things are progressing toward Rambis being announced soon as the Knicks head coach. -- New York Post Link - ( New Window )
to do a job, let him do it. It's been only two seasons with a horrible hand and I think it will take some time to turn things around. I honestly think we are on the right path and as long as the current coaching staff can develop young players (PORZ, GRANT) we should let things progress.
Rambis being announced is as close as you can get towards tanking
Not sure what Phil's plans are but if we can trade Melo for some young talent and tank on a year we have our first round pick, I say let's do it. But, not sure if Melo is going to be traded.
That Blatt and Jackson met Monday regarding coaching vacancy.
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account
@WojVerticalNBA
David Blatt met with New York president Phil Jackson about Knicks' coaching job on Monday, league sources tell @TheVertical.
to do a job, let him do it. It's been only two seasons with a horrible hand and I think it will take some time to turn things around. I honestly think we are on the right path and as long as the current coaching staff can develop young players (PORZ, GRANT) we should let things progress.
Where is there ANY evidence the current staff is good at that? Rambis 1. Had to be told by veterans to play the kids more 2. Openly said he preferred "experience" out there over Grant late in the season. Where is the coaching staffs proven ability to develop young players?
Kurt Rambis wasnt going to do it or, at least, hed shown no inclination to so the Knicks players pushed the interim coach into the right decision for the franchise.
In a rare move, three veteran players approached Rambis on Tuesday with a plan to cut their own minutes for the sake of developing the rest of the roster.
Carmelo Anthony said he came up with the idea and presented it to Robin Lopez and Jose Calderon, who then relayed this desire to the coach. Rambis said he obliged, with a goal of giving more time in the meaningless remaining six games to the likes of rookie Jerian Grant, Langston Galloway, Derrick Williams, Kevin Seraphin and Kyle OQuinn.
Those guys need to play, especially right now, Anthony said. They need to be out there, they need playing time, they need playing experience. You can practice and do drills and one-on-one things all day long but you only get that experience by playing in an actual game.
I think its good for them, I think its good for the morale of the team, I think its good for their confidence. Because sometimes in a situation like this, you can lose your confidence. And thats something we dont want.
'trade Melo for some young talent and tank on a year'...
Im coming around to this. Well, I've 100% advocated a Melo trade and rebuild for some time. Im coming around to the Rambis part of it, as a necessary piece to drive Melo out. I do wonder whether the injury-based doom of the Clippers makes it more or less likely that they move Blake.
Funny thing is that I'll still probably watch a lot of Knicks games even if we're rebuilding (I dont like to call rebuilding "tanking" -- tanking is intentionally losing games). KP on his own is worth a watch, and I really think we could see something with year 2 of Grant. Plus the Melo trade may return 2016-17 pieces.
16 years, what's another one? KP is still very young, I'm all in to trade Melo and slowly build around Zinger, rather than piece together a 1-and-out 8 seed around an aging Melo
you can promise me that Rambis being hired means Melo asks out and Jackson gets solid value for Melo I'm 100% on board. If Rambis coming back = selling Melo on a sweet Livingston/Bazemore off-season I'm going to puke.
16 years, what's another one? KP is still very young, I'm all in to trade Melo and slowly build around Zinger, rather than piece together a 1-and-out 8 seed around an aging Melo
Sure if that's the plan I'm in. I fear a tier 2-3 FA target type of off-season and "KP and Grant year 2!!"
It is starting to feel like rambis is not getting the job
I believe Phil has control, but no GM in the league gets to act without consequence. Dolan has to write checks for Derek Fisher to not work, so he's certainly going to care about the next coaching hire.
RE: It is starting to feel like rambis is not getting the job
I think if he was it would already be done, Phil does not care about public opinion...
Why do people keep acting if the Knicks spend money this off season the team is a finished product?
Who cares about money spent? I care about winning 40-42 games and not getting a lottery pick. The worst possible outcome is the Knicks improving just enough to not get a high pick. It would be disastrous.
RE: RE: The Knicks have essentially tanked the last
16 years, what's another one? KP is still very young, I'm all in to trade Melo and slowly build around Zinger, rather than piece together a 1-and-out 8 seed around an aging Melo
Sure if that's the plan I'm in. I fear a tier 2-3 FA target type of off-season and "KP and Grant year 2!!"
But why is that a bad thing? If they can shore up the backcourt (more specifically the 2) somewhat this year, and they compete and actually make the playoffs, next FA is the time where they can make a much more impactful signing.
It's no secret that I don't want to trade Melo this year, but if after next year's FA there aren't able to bring in a great piece, then trading Melo at that point makes sense.
as a guy who knew the job was his, but we'll see. He has to be viewed as the favorite at this point. I wonder when Phil announces it - probably on a Friday at around 5:30 or so to limit media coverage. Maybe the Friday of Memorial Day Weekend or something.
RE: RE: It is starting to feel like rambis is not getting the job
I think if he was it would already be done, Phil does not care about public opinion...
Why do people keep acting if the Knicks spend money this off season the team is a finished product?
Who cares about money spent? I care about winning 40-42 games and not getting a lottery pick. The worst possible outcome is the Knicks improving just enough to not get a high pick. It would be disastrous.
I'd say the worst possible outcome is taking yourself out of contention as an FA spot when there are quite a few great FAs available.
I think if he was it would already be done, Phil does not care about public opinion...
Why do people keep acting if the Knicks spend money this off season the team is a finished product?
Who cares about money spent? I care about winning 40-42 games and not getting a lottery pick. The worst possible outcome is the Knicks improving just enough to not get a high pick. It would be disastrous.
I'd say the worst possible outcome is taking yourself out of contention as an FA spot when there are quite a few great FAs available.
Really? What great FA's are available? Conley is "great"? DeRozan? Horford? Barring Durant coming here (obviously you make the call) where are these great FA's? I'm not even sure why a guy like DeRozan or Horford would even consider the Knicks but that's for another day.
I think if he was it would already be done, Phil does not care about public opinion...
Why do people keep acting if the Knicks spend money this off season the team is a finished product?
Who cares about money spent? I care about winning 40-42 games and not getting a lottery pick. The worst possible outcome is the Knicks improving just enough to not get a high pick. It would be disastrous.
It's not Dolan's money really. It's MSG's money. His family only owns 20% of the equity, but cash held by a company is often considered less valuable than cash in your hands (less so when you're the controller).
I do think that Phil has to convince Dolan on big moves. However, I think "trade Melo" is going to be a much tougher sale than "retain Rambis". It's not like there is some megacoach out there who has Dolan's eye. I cant imagine that Blatt or Walton has Dolan's dick hard. And I suspect that a big, big name coach is going to want control like Thibs got, and that would mean Dolan would have to dismiss Phil.
I said that next FA is when there's a chance to get a great FA. This year's FA is unspectacular.
But you really think that's a good reason to hold onto Melo? I'd suggest if KP is as good as we think HE is a far more appealing teammate to a guy who is going to commit 4-5 years of his "prime" to. Melo will be turning 33 for player X's first season here.
and everyone and their mother has money to spend. And because of the cap jump for 2017-18 (and aging up to full vet, where your max salary jumps from 30% to 35% of the cap), there is every incentive for Durant and Horford to sit tight and take 2 year deals with opt outs after the first season. If they sign long term now, based on a $90 million cap their deals start at $27 million per (and if they leave as UFAs, lower years and raises). If the cap goes to $109 in 2 years as expected, Durant and Horford can sign deals that start at $38 million per.
I said that next FA is when there's a chance to get a great FA. This year's FA is unspectacular.
But you really think that's a good reason to hold onto Melo? I'd suggest if KP is as good as we think HE is a far more appealing teammate to a guy who is going to commit 4-5 years of his "prime" to. Melo will be turning 33 for player X's first season here.
Agree. Better bet is to get a great pick from our natural rebuilding pick and another great pick for Melo. KP develops into a centerpiece, Grant hopefully is a good starter or 3rd guard. Then in 2018, 2019, and 2020 you have cap space to lure a star and a new coach.
He'd be the one guy who could fill a guard spot and keep us dreaming of the big FA point guard class next summer. If you're a top PG, I would think Batum, Melo, KP and Lopez would get your attention. Otherwise, I agree - it's time to trade Melo and tank.
the draft is way too much of a crapshoot to tank an entire season. There's no guarantee of the top pick, plus a bare minimum of a third of the lottery picks is going to flop anyway. Once you tank, what good is the cap space going to do when no one will come here?
Trading Melo is probably the smart move unless they can get some players in FA. However, it's hardly guarantees future success.
He'd be the one guy who could fill a guard spot and keep us dreaming of the big FA point guard class next summer. If you're a top PG, I would think Batum, Melo, KP and Lopez would get your attention. Otherwise, I agree - it's time to trade Melo and tank.
You would call Batum a "great" FA? He's a nice player but at the end of the day the guy had a 15.69 PER good for 15th at the position (and will almost certainly get max money). I'm not against going after Batum but a plan of signing Batum and that somehow leading to a "top PG" seems like a whole lot more of chasing Lebron types vs. reality. High picks are the way to go. Link - ( New Window )
I said that next FA is when there's a chance to get a great FA. This year's FA is unspectacular.
But you really think that's a good reason to hold onto Melo? I'd suggest if KP is as good as we think HE is a far more appealing teammate to a guy who is going to commit 4-5 years of his "prime" to. Melo will be turning 33 for player X's first season here.
But the question isn't really about KP, because he'll be here regardless. Yes, Melo will be 33, but he'll also be coming off his first completely healthy season in a while, a year after he had his best all-around season.
The age may be a factor, but it's somewhat mitigated if he shows that he can still play at a high level. And most likely trading partners were always going to be "Win Now" type teams anyway.
You don't think Chris Paul will be heavily courted by teams next year? He'll be 33 as well.
I just thought he belonged on that above list. What I want most of all is to trade Melo and build through the next two drafts. I just have my doubts about the Knicks going that route. If they insist on spending all their money and building through free agency, I'm hoping for a SG this year and a PG next year, and the SG I keep landing on is Batum.
RE: 'trade Melo for some young talent and tank on a year'...
He'd be the one guy who could fill a guard spot and keep us dreaming of the big FA point guard class next summer. If you're a top PG, I would think Batum, Melo, KP and Lopez would get your attention. Otherwise, I agree - it's time to trade Melo and tank.
You would call Batum a "great" FA? He's a nice player but at the end of the day the guy had a 15.69 PER good for 15th at the position (and will almost certainly get max money). I'm not against going after Batum but a plan of signing Batum and that somehow leading to a "top PG" seems like a whole lot more of chasing Lebron types vs. reality. High picks are the way to go. Link - ( New Window )
Between the trade kicker and no income tax, he'd stand to make ~$18 million more over the last 3 years of his contract by going to Orl. The Magic have a bunch of pieces I'd like (Gordon, Oladipo, Hez, ~#11 pick, LA's 2018 #1). And I think they recognize that the could use an offensive centerpiece star player.
KP, Gordon, Oladipo/Hez, Grant, and our 2017 #1 is a lineup with some real potential. And leaves us a ton of cap space.
the Blake Griffin news came out, quite a few "insiders" speculated if that was Blake's last game w/ LAC. I still think the move is a Bos-LAC-NYK threeway deal that moves Melo for a first this year and the Nets pick either this year or next.
chance the Magic move both Gordon and Oladipo. I do however think Oladipo is exactly what Phil has in mind for the PG spot. He'd be a great add even if he's a damn Hoosier.
not looking to turn this into a crap on Melo conversation but I'm willing to bet
1. There are far more GM's/coaches that think Chris Paul makes his teammates better than Melo would
2. Scorers would be more intrigued joining a guy like Paul than Melo.
put it this way, and again I'm not anti-Batum in any way. But the Knicks minus Afflalo and Williams + Batum are a better team but you are basically still praying another big piece wants to join you the following year. Otherwise you are a middling team that challenges for the playoffs but not a title. He's a solid/good player, he's a guy who joins an already very solid/good roster and makes a big difference.
chance the Magic move both Gordon and Oladipo. I do however think Oladipo is exactly what Phil has in mind for the PG spot. He'd be a great add even if he's a damn Hoosier.
Yeah by all accounts Orlando values Gordon as their prize piece too.
Don't appreciate the Hoosier comment. How are the Badgers looking for next year?
which is my favorite all in stat, mainly because you can add up the WS for players on a team and you're almost always within 1 or 2 of the actual # of wins a team got.
Just under .100. That suggests he's not a difference maker. A good starter. Not more. Notably he was in the 120s earlier in his career when he was being hyped as a possible next Pippen type.
put it this way, and again I'm not anti-Batum in any way. But the Knicks minus Afflalo and Williams + Batum are a better team but you are basically still praying another big piece wants to join you the following year. Otherwise you are a middling team that challenges for the playoffs but not a title. He's a solid/good player, he's a guy who joins an already very solid/good roster and makes a big difference.
Grant
Batum
Melo
KP
Lopz
-
Calderon
KOQ
Wroten
Galloway
Color me uninspired. That core put up 32 wins
Batum would come in and automatically be the #3, and an improvement over Afflalo, who was 1/3 of the "core." Moreover, another 1/3 of that core was in his rookie year, and the last 1/3 of that core was coming off knee surgery, and missed 10 games in which the team went 0-10.
You can be uninspired by that line up and that's fine, but comparing what you posted to the situation last year at 32 wins isn't really fair.
Link - ( New Window )
Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account
@WojVerticalNBA
David Blatt met with New York president Phil Jackson about Knicks' coaching job on Monday, league sources tell @TheVertical.
Where is there ANY evidence the current staff is good at that? Rambis 1. Had to be told by veterans to play the kids more 2. Openly said he preferred "experience" out there over Grant late in the season. Where is the coaching staffs proven ability to develop young players?
In a rare move, three veteran players approached Rambis on Tuesday with a plan to cut their own minutes for the sake of developing the rest of the roster.
Carmelo Anthony said he came up with the idea and presented it to Robin Lopez and Jose Calderon, who then relayed this desire to the coach. Rambis said he obliged, with a goal of giving more time in the meaningless remaining six games to the likes of rookie Jerian Grant, Langston Galloway, Derrick Williams, Kevin Seraphin and Kyle OQuinn.
Those guys need to play, especially right now, Anthony said. They need to be out there, they need playing time, they need playing experience. You can practice and do drills and one-on-one things all day long but you only get that experience by playing in an actual game.
I think its good for them, I think its good for the morale of the team, I think its good for their confidence. Because sometimes in a situation like this, you can lose your confidence. And thats something we dont want.
Im coming around to this. Well, I've 100% advocated a Melo trade and rebuild for some time. Im coming around to the Rambis part of it, as a necessary piece to drive Melo out. I do wonder whether the injury-based doom of the Clippers makes it more or less likely that they move Blake.
Funny thing is that I'll still probably watch a lot of Knicks games even if we're rebuilding (I dont like to call rebuilding "tanking" -- tanking is intentionally losing games). KP on his own is worth a watch, and I really think we could see something with year 2 of Grant. Plus the Melo trade may return 2016-17 pieces.
Sure if that's the plan I'm in. I fear a tier 2-3 FA target type of off-season and "KP and Grant year 2!!"
Why do people keep acting if the Knicks spend money this off season the team is a finished product?
Why do people keep acting if the Knicks spend money this off season the team is a finished product?
Who cares about money spent? I care about winning 40-42 games and not getting a lottery pick. The worst possible outcome is the Knicks improving just enough to not get a high pick. It would be disastrous.
Quote:
16 years, what's another one? KP is still very young, I'm all in to trade Melo and slowly build around Zinger, rather than piece together a 1-and-out 8 seed around an aging Melo
Sure if that's the plan I'm in. I fear a tier 2-3 FA target type of off-season and "KP and Grant year 2!!"
But why is that a bad thing? If they can shore up the backcourt (more specifically the 2) somewhat this year, and they compete and actually make the playoffs, next FA is the time where they can make a much more impactful signing.
It's no secret that I don't want to trade Melo this year, but if after next year's FA there aren't able to bring in a great piece, then trading Melo at that point makes sense.
Quote:
I think if he was it would already be done, Phil does not care about public opinion...
Why do people keep acting if the Knicks spend money this off season the team is a finished product?
Who cares about money spent? I care about winning 40-42 games and not getting a lottery pick. The worst possible outcome is the Knicks improving just enough to not get a high pick. It would be disastrous.
I'd say the worst possible outcome is taking yourself out of contention as an FA spot when there are quite a few great FAs available.
Quote:
In comment 12924029 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
I think if he was it would already be done, Phil does not care about public opinion...
Why do people keep acting if the Knicks spend money this off season the team is a finished product?
Who cares about money spent? I care about winning 40-42 games and not getting a lottery pick. The worst possible outcome is the Knicks improving just enough to not get a high pick. It would be disastrous.
I'd say the worst possible outcome is taking yourself out of contention as an FA spot when there are quite a few great FAs available.
Really? What great FA's are available? Conley is "great"? DeRozan? Horford? Barring Durant coming here (obviously you make the call) where are these great FA's? I'm not even sure why a guy like DeRozan or Horford would even consider the Knicks but that's for another day.
Here are the top remaining FA if you don't include those 2 per hoops hype
Drummond (RFA)
Conley
DeRozan (PO)
Horford
Pau Gasol (PO)
Beal (RFA)
Howard (PO)
Whiteside
Barnes
Parsons
Quote:
I think if he was it would already be done, Phil does not care about public opinion...
Why do people keep acting if the Knicks spend money this off season the team is a finished product?
Who cares about money spent? I care about winning 40-42 games and not getting a lottery pick. The worst possible outcome is the Knicks improving just enough to not get a high pick. It would be disastrous.
It's not Dolan's money really. It's MSG's money. His family only owns 20% of the equity, but cash held by a company is often considered less valuable than cash in your hands (less so when you're the controller).
I do think that Phil has to convince Dolan on big moves. However, I think "trade Melo" is going to be a much tougher sale than "retain Rambis". It's not like there is some megacoach out there who has Dolan's eye. I cant imagine that Blatt or Walton has Dolan's dick hard. And I suspect that a big, big name coach is going to want control like Thibs got, and that would mean Dolan would have to dismiss Phil.
But you really think that's a good reason to hold onto Melo? I'd suggest if KP is as good as we think HE is a far more appealing teammate to a guy who is going to commit 4-5 years of his "prime" to. Melo will be turning 33 for player X's first season here.
Quote:
I said that next FA is when there's a chance to get a great FA. This year's FA is unspectacular.
But you really think that's a good reason to hold onto Melo? I'd suggest if KP is as good as we think HE is a far more appealing teammate to a guy who is going to commit 4-5 years of his "prime" to. Melo will be turning 33 for player X's first season here.
Agree. Better bet is to get a great pick from our natural rebuilding pick and another great pick for Melo. KP develops into a centerpiece, Grant hopefully is a good starter or 3rd guard. Then in 2018, 2019, and 2020 you have cap space to lure a star and a new coach.
Trading Melo is probably the smart move unless they can get some players in FA. However, it's hardly guarantees future success.
You would call Batum a "great" FA? He's a nice player but at the end of the day the guy had a 15.69 PER good for 15th at the position (and will almost certainly get max money). I'm not against going after Batum but a plan of signing Batum and that somehow leading to a "top PG" seems like a whole lot more of chasing Lebron types vs. reality. High picks are the way to go.
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
I said that next FA is when there's a chance to get a great FA. This year's FA is unspectacular.
But you really think that's a good reason to hold onto Melo? I'd suggest if KP is as good as we think HE is a far more appealing teammate to a guy who is going to commit 4-5 years of his "prime" to. Melo will be turning 33 for player X's first season here.
But the question isn't really about KP, because he'll be here regardless. Yes, Melo will be 33, but he'll also be coming off his first completely healthy season in a while, a year after he had his best all-around season.
The age may be a factor, but it's somewhat mitigated if he shows that he can still play at a high level. And most likely trading partners were always going to be "Win Now" type teams anyway.
You don't think Chris Paul will be heavily courted by teams next year? He'll be 33 as well.
Outside of hiring Rambis, that statement was the only thing that really worried me about Phil.
Can we get an Amen?!
Quote:
He'd be the one guy who could fill a guard spot and keep us dreaming of the big FA point guard class next summer. If you're a top PG, I would think Batum, Melo, KP and Lopez would get your attention. Otherwise, I agree - it's time to trade Melo and tank.
You would call Batum a "great" FA? He's a nice player but at the end of the day the guy had a 15.69 PER good for 15th at the position (and will almost certainly get max money). I'm not against going after Batum but a plan of signing Batum and that somehow leading to a "top PG" seems like a whole lot more of chasing Lebron types vs. reality. High picks are the way to go. Link - ( New Window )
PER is a bullshit stat.
KP, Gordon, Oladipo/Hez, Grant, and our 2017 #1 is a lineup with some real potential. And leaves us a ton of cap space.
1. There are far more GM's/coaches that think Chris Paul makes his teammates better than Melo would
2. Scorers would be more intrigued joining a guy like Paul than Melo.
Grant
Batum
Melo
KP
Lopz
-
Calderon
KOQ
Wroten
Galloway
Color me uninspired. That core put up 32 wins
Yeah by all accounts Orlando values Gordon as their prize piece too.
Don't appreciate the Hoosier comment. How are the Badgers looking for next year?
Just under .100. That suggests he's not a difference maker. A good starter. Not more. Notably he was in the 120s earlier in his career when he was being hyped as a possible next Pippen type.
Finally luck meant for the Lakers comes to us! lol
Grant
Batum
Melo
KP
Lopz
-
Calderon
KOQ
Wroten
Galloway
Color me uninspired. That core put up 32 wins
Batum would come in and automatically be the #3, and an improvement over Afflalo, who was 1/3 of the "core." Moreover, another 1/3 of that core was in his rookie year, and the last 1/3 of that core was coming off knee surgery, and missed 10 games in which the team went 0-10.
You can be uninspired by that line up and that's fine, but comparing what you posted to the situation last year at 32 wins isn't really fair.