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Any regrets from taking BPA? ex: Mathias Kiwanuka?

Jon C. in MD : 4/27/2016 8:49 pm
Every year, there is talk across the league about the risks of reaching for need. Taking the "Best Player Available" is often is often hed up as the lowest-risk strategy. Every team makes some kind of claim about drafting BPA.

I couldn't find it today, but I remember an article Eric wrote ~100 years ago comparing the BPA and need strategies. And he said that if you keep drafting the 2nd-best player available to fill needs, then eventually you'll have a team full of 2nd-best players.

So, I was wondering if there are any regret stories from teams passing on a need to take the BPA. The only one that comes to my mind is Mathias Kiwanuka. He was drafted into a position of strength, and never got the playing time to fully develop. Was it a coaching mistake to move him to LB? Even if they kept him at DE, was it a waste of talent at one spot? Would they have done better to draft to a position of need?

Can anyone think of stories around the league of teams botching a pick by using BPA strategy?

2006 BBI Draft Review - ( New Window )
No. It's great to have talent. It amazes me how positions that  
yatqb : 4/27/2016 8:54 pm : link
looked really deep in camp were ravaged by injuries during past seasons. So for all the Kiwis that didn't get handled well there are other situations where that depth was critical.
Not for Nothing  
Samiam : 4/27/2016 8:55 pm : link
If you remember the following year after Kiwi was drafted, the Giants lost 3 of their 4 DEs to injury (what a surprise). They needed Kiwi to start a good number of games and he did well considering his lack of strength at the position
Kiwi  
Percy : 4/27/2016 9:01 pm : link
Was a great, versatile player for the Giants. Bottom pick of round one. I remember being surprised at the time, though, given the existing strength at DE. What could have been expected better than Kiwi? Good pick!
Kiwi  
rocco8112 : 4/27/2016 9:06 pm : link
seemed like a nice guy, good citizen who did whatever the team asked of him. He was a looooong way from great though. Definition of just another guy.
I think Kiwi was underrated  
AP in Halfmoon : 4/27/2016 9:07 pm : link
He had great range as a LB and was able to take away a big part of the field that we're missing today. I wouldn't say he was a horrible pick.
Kiwi  
pjcas18 : 4/27/2016 9:10 pm : link
was very good, especially rushing the passer, until he hurt his neck. he was never the same after that.

but....

Great pick  
YorkAveGiant : 4/27/2016 9:23 pm : link
Solid, played a long time. Champion.
I'd pick kiwi at 10 over Floyd  
Patrick77 : 4/27/2016 9:26 pm : link
Flame away.
That is a tough draft  
DavidinBMNY : 4/27/2016 9:44 pm : link
The Giants traded down that year. That was the last time they did that in rd 1. I don't think they loved Kiwi! But even after trading down given the priority they place on DE and pass rush it made sense. And they secured another draft pick.

The larger regret is from taking low floor/ high ceiling athletes. Randle , Moss, Brewer, Travis beckham, Ramses, etc. Wilson is a tough call. I always felt he was a luxury pick I wanted OL.

Compounded by taking 1st rd talent in rd 2 due to injuries, Steve Smith, Terell Thomas,
Was great in  
muhajir : 4/27/2016 9:53 pm : link
College. JAG in the pros. BPA would have worked great in this case too if he turned out to be a stud as hoped.
Kiwi  
JohnVB : 4/27/2016 10:39 pm : link
Never realized his potential as a DE because of the constant position changes. He would've been a good DE if the left him there. Not a very good LB.

His career would've looked better in retrospect if he was drafted by a 4-3 team that didn't have a logjam of talent at the DE position.
Never made sense to me to  
Hades07 : 4/27/2016 11:10 pm : link
Draft kiwi and make him a LB when they could have drafted Ryans. Kiwi may have been the better player but Ryans was the better LB.
RE: Kiwi  
LauderdaleMatty : 4/27/2016 11:46 pm : link
In comment 12925858 Percy said:
Quote:
Was a great, versatile player for the Giants. Bottom pick of round one. I remember being surprised at the time, though, given the existing strength at DE. What could have been expected better than Kiwi? Good pick!


Great? Not a good pick. They should have drafted DeMeco Ryans who was a much better player than Kiwi ever was. He may have been BPA on their board bit it was a bad pick. But on the good side it was a much better than wasting what they got for the trade down for KIWI w the horrendous move up for Sinioroce Moss.

That year was an F What a disaster. A guy w no positon and then a trade up for a WR who literally underperformed his whole career but wowed the the scouts in the senior bowl.
And this thread is a "great"  
LauderdaleMatty : 4/27/2016 11:49 pm : link
Example of people having a much different gauge for what a great player is

He was a career JAG at best. Heck. He wasn't even on the filed or a part of the first SB IIRC as he was hurt during the season.
RE: Kiwi  
Sonic Youth : 4/28/2016 12:08 am : link
In comment 12925869 rocco8112 said:
Quote:
seemed like a nice guy, good citizen who did whatever the team asked of him. He was a looooong way from great though. Definition of just another guy.
He was definitely not the definition of JAG. You should check out some NFL averages to define "JAG"
Kiwanuka was not just a guy  
SomeFan : 4/28/2016 5:34 am : link
I agree that his neck injury and to a lesser extent position changes hurt him.

By the way, Kiwi's short shuttle and 3 cone times were much better than Landon Collins' who was a need pick and I think will be a JAG.
Who cares what his measurable as were.  
LauderdaleMatty : 4/28/2016 6:57 am : link
Averaged about 3 and a half sacks a year.

Give him credit. Played 9 years. Other Jan that his stats in the NFL SCREAM JAG. now maybe injuries played a part in that but again what some guys here consider great and above average is not what I do.

That's ok but look at his stats. As a starter he wasn't ever anything more than a support player ever for the Giants. Good guy. Worked hard. But a JAG IMO . How I look at him and his stats
Link - ( New Window )
Kiwi  
Mike in Boston : 4/28/2016 6:58 am : link
Was not the best player ever, or even (with hindsight) the best player available at the time. But he was a decent late first round pick judging by historical standards. People tend to confuse what you hope for with a given pick with what you get on average.

A few years ago I went through every top ten overall pick for 10 years. Roughly a third of them were impact players, roughly a third were solid starters or major role players, and
roughly a third were total busts (including players whose careers were ruined by early injuries.) The draft is that much of a crap shoot. And, by the way, the historical performance of draft picks in various slots declines less rapidly than the trade value, which is why trading down is generally a better move than trading up.
Who is saying he was a bust?  
LauderdaleMatty : 4/28/2016 7:27 am : link
It wS a bad pick not because of Kiwi. Maybe it was missuse by the staffs much as anything but they had a huge need for LB and they drafted a DE. He was never really a good fit at LB in a 4-3 but they jammed him there as Osi Strhan and Tuck were all studs. The kick there was DeMeco Ryans. Need and talent met and they picked Kiwi. A true look at how they view pure LB players in the draft.

Hasn't changed since. Avoid guys like Ryans. Levonte Da I'd and Bobby Wagner. And in those 3 cases all those LBs would have helped the against more than they picked.

Kiwi was not a bust pick. But it shows how the Giants think. THey don't give a rats ass about pure LBs in the draft early. And secondly it shows how different people view the bar as to what great and above average is compared to others.
Kiwanuka  
spike : 4/28/2016 7:41 am : link
was a contributor on two Super bowl teams.

No regrets
Unfortunately for Kiwi  
Beer Man : 4/28/2016 7:46 am : link
He was forced to play out of position because on the glut of talent at the DE position on the team. He was a great team player for sacrificing what may have been a great career at DE for the betterment of the team. He does have a SB ring for his sacrifice, which is a great thing.
Kiwi  
JohnVB : 4/28/2016 7:50 am : link
Showed potential as a rookie and had 8 sacks in 08 when he was a full-time DE due to injury. He would've been a plus player as a FT DE in a 4-3 but never has the opportunity with the Giants. They were stacked at DE for just about his entire career.
Kiwi was best man available  
WideRight : 4/28/2016 8:00 am : link
Which is probably more in line with the Giants priorities than BPA. He had the measurables and the maturity to put the team first.

He was a good pick, as the Superbowls showed, wether he was or wasn't the lead dog
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