a quick first step on pass rushing moves and a guy with a wingspan and quickness to clog passing lanes. They also see a guy who runs fast.
But, ask to be shown a play where Floyd actually hits somebody with force. I'm serious, ask for it and see how long it takes to get that video. For all of the discussion about pass rushing and pass coverage, Jack had more passes defended (which isn 't hard when Floyd tallied 4), and the best stat is his ability to hurry the passer, which will get more difficult to do in the NFL as large, quick linemen will be pushing his slight frame around.
I originally saw a guy too thin and lanky to stand up to blockers in the run game, and not strong enough to get around big tackles in the nfl.
But I think now the Demarcus Ware comparison is a good one. Floyd will probably need to add some muscle, but that's true of a lot of guys coming out of college. If scouts are correct that he can cover well, especially those big tight ends running around these days, he's an extremely rare and valuable piece.
Carl Banks calling him a "convertible" is a good term. To play OLB and drop into coverage on early downs, then become a dangerous pass rusher on 3rd down makes him a rare commodity
For all the sh*t Reese takes (alot of it deserved), go back and look at his track record in the 1st round. It's pretty excellent and probably the biggest reason why you should be "somewhat" at ease if the Giants feel he is worth their 1st round selection.
As for Floyd, he is a rare athlete. People are screaming for the big kill shots in his highlight videos are overlooking the fact that that's not his game. This is a size/speed/athleticism freak with the ability to cover a TE (when was the last time we could do that?) as well as rush the passer from the edge or with his hand in the dirt.
Personally, I feel his upside is everything they tried to force Kiwi to be, the only problem was Kiwi was more of a straight DE and this guy is more suited to that role. I think he is a fine prospect and one I would be excited to come away with.
I will say I don't see a need to trade up for anyone outside of Ramsey/Tunsil. If they trade up for Floyd, so be it but in that case I would prefer to sit tight and select Conklin, Hargreaves or a WR.
I'm confused. "a quick first step on pass rushing moves and a guy with a wingspan and quickness to clog passing lanes. They also see a guy who runs fast." What exactly is bad about any of that? Those are traits that you need in the NFL to excel
Floyd has the physical tools to put himself in position to make plays. At the college level. Guys in the NFL are faster and stronger. The tackles who are easily taking him out of plays in college exist everywhere in the NFL and his closing speed is going to be less effective because players are faster.
I see a guy who is in a position to make plays, but doesn't. He covers guys closely, but was so poor at ball skills that he was only credited with 4 passes defended. He gets a lot of hurries, but his sack numbers aren't impressive.
Mike - you don't have to hit head on and crush everyone. But Floyd isn't a form tackler, either. he chases and drags people down - which again, in the NFL is harder to do, and do we really want our LB's chasing and dragging? He's attempted arm tackles and failed in several clips. He's been stonewalled by blockers in many clips. He's overrun plays in many clips. I can't find a single clip where he lines up a ball carrier and forcefully brings him to the ground.
I'm actually really perplexed how people can not realize that the possible #10 pick in the draft at a position that requires one to tackle frequently is really poor at doing it and they are OK with it.
His ability to rush the passer and his ability to cover will make him a specialist at best. Again - you want that at #10?
I said earlier this week that I'd be OK with him in the 2nd round, and I'd run up and knock his skinny ass over to get to the podium to draft him in the 3rd. In the 1st? Complete enamoration with potential. Potential that requires a 24 year old to add weight...
I said earlier this week that I'd be OK with him in the 2nd round, and I'd run up and knock his skinny ass over to get to the podium to draft him in the 3rd. In the 1st? Complete enamoration with potential. Potential that requires a 24 year old to add weight...
You realize that it's quite possible the Jaguars take him at 5, right? This isn't a 2nd or 3rd round player.
I'm confused. "a quick first step on pass rushing moves and a guy with a wingspan and quickness to clog passing lanes. They also see a guy who runs fast." What exactly is bad about any of that? Those are traits that you need in the NFL to excel
Floyd has the physical tools to put himself in position to make plays. At the college level. Guys in the NFL are faster and stronger. The tackles who are easily taking him out of plays in college exist everywhere in the NFL and his closing speed is going to be less effective because players are faster.
I see a guy who is in a position to make plays, but doesn't. He covers guys closely, but was so poor at ball skills that he was only credited with 4 passes defended. He gets a lot of hurries, but his sack numbers aren't impressive.
Mike - you don't have to hit head on and crush everyone. But Floyd isn't a form tackler, either. he chases and drags people down - which again, in the NFL is harder to do, and do we really want our LB's chasing and dragging? He's attempted arm tackles and failed in several clips. He's been stonewalled by blockers in many clips. He's overrun plays in many clips. I can't find a single clip where he lines up a ball carrier and forcefully brings him to the ground.
I'm actually really perplexed how people can not realize that the possible #10 pick in the draft at a position that requires one to tackle frequently is really poor at doing it and they are OK with it.
His ability to rush the passer and his ability to cover will make him a specialist at best. Again - you want that at #10?
I said earlier this week that I'd be OK with him in the 2nd round, and I'd run up and knock his skinny ass over to get to the podium to draft him in the 3rd. In the 1st? Complete enamoration with potential. Potential that requires a 24 year old to add weight...
Alright, fair enough. I just think the tackling thing is a bit overrated. I think he shows fine ability to tackle.
Say he needs to get stronger, say his slight build is a detriment
and he needs to add weight. I get that. The guy isn't soft though.I posted an hour long breakdown, 1 hour where they just evaluated 1 player: Leonard Floyd. Where they questioned his ability as a full time pass rusher, but they lauded him for seeking out contact and initiating contact...the knock on him was not lack of being aggressive..he initiates contact, he will hit guards, pop TEs and knock people back. So, again, he isn't perfect, he is undersized and needs to add weight and that is as concern..but he is an aggressive player who will seek contact.
we picked Cedric Jones in the Top 5. Keith Rivers was picked #9.
I could give a rats ass where people want to draft him. He has all the markings of a first round bust. Measurables over production, a slight body frame, and he's relatively old. Add to that he didn't markedly improve or develop each year.
Every player in this draft has a weakness. Floyd, can overcome his tackling problem. The right coaching and strength program can change the way he does things. I see a guy who is a athlete, who can run with te and rb. Also, he can blitz off the edge when they bring five.
I was trying to find some videos of Floyd engaging
and knocking lineman or TE's backward. There are a couple in there where he doesn't make the play, but he fires in and knocks a TE or tackle or guard back. A 3rd and 1 vs Bama, where at 230lbs you'd think Floyd would be 10 yards down the field on roller skates. His teammate made the play, but Floyd fought off his blockers and was right there.
My first choice was/is Myles Jack btw..I can be happy with the Giants drafting Floyd though if that is there choice. He is a tough football player, that needs to get stronger but is one of the top 5 athletes in the draft at any position...there are tools to work with, and as a blitzing linebacker he would certainly be a weapon for Spags.
Look at all those pass rushing clips. His sacks seem to come almost exclusively in one of two ways: 1) he gets a lineman leaning or lunging and then whiffing or 2) he comes hard and fast around the edge with a straight speed move or essentially untouched on a stunt.
On the one hand, a guy like Spags probably sees him as a valuable chess piece thinking "I can get this a guy a clean rush through my scheme, and he's got the killer speed to finish." It's not nothing. To date, the physical skills on our team LB would not allow him to say that.
BUT...given the above on his pash rush skillset, I'm very concerned that NFL blockers are going to be fooled/beaten cleanly A LOT LESS. Will he be like early career Osi around the edge who could just fly and beat anyone...or will he beat a like the older/slightly slower version who tried to loop around the edge and was easily pushed beyond the pocket and out of position? Especially without more bulk...the latter is a very serious concern for me. And good speed alone isn't going to be enough to make NFL blockers look like chumps the way it was in college for him. It just concerns me that you don't see a lot of sacks from him where his initial move fails, a blocker engages him, and then he counters and beats him. The technique and athleticism is just too sound in the NFL to expect to have guys lunging and missing consistently....even with really good speed.
Surprise me with Floyd. He played at 226, bulked to 248 for the combine and tested insanely and then within weeks was down to 235.... Why? This is a guy who will be 24 at seasons start (or 85 if you ask others). His weight and lack of strength testing is concerning. I can get behind the scouts and Reese seeing a guy that can be coached up into a monster, I don't see it but I'm not a professional in the NFL. I can readily admit that if the team and scouts love his play that I can be wrong. If we put those issues aside the weight and strength concerns still look concerning to the casual fan.
My biggest fear is that he is a great prospect who can't hold weight for whatever reason. At that point he is purely a situational player.
The disconnect you are having here is trying to compare him to Keith Rivers or a more traditional LB.
The Giants view Floyd as more of a pass rush specialist. The fact that he is athletic enough to cover backs and TEs is gravy. If he is on this team he is going to be coming after the QB.
The combine weight is official though, that weight reported by Atlanta...is confusing to me. I mean, the guy is/was shredded at 244..blew up the combine at that weight..wasn't like he gained weight and slowed down or didn't test well. So, that would lead me to believe that he was absolutely a solid 244. I was a wrestler and I get that weight can fluctuate by 10 pounds based on being dehydrated etc. It is just odd, you wouldn't think you would lose 10 pounds of muscle from the combine to April. That weight reported by Atlanta, is very odd to me.(Atlanta is looking at Floyd as a middle linebacker btw)
I understand that. I don't want a specialist at #10. Especially at LB. If he's a specialist as a pass rusher, he's better suited for the 3-4. If he's a supposedly strong coverage LB, then when is he doing that?
I don't want a toy at #10 for the coaches to play with. I want a football player. Not somebody who is dependent on those around him to occupy blockers so he can swoop in.
His measurables place him as a 1st rounder. His performance makes him look like a 3rd rounder. Just going on history, there aren't a lot of guys who live up to measurable status. Even JPP who had questions had a really impressive highlight reel. This is honestly the first time I've seen a highlight reel of a guy that contains clips where he isn't making plays, like where he's simply covering a receiver who catches the ball or where he gets by a Tackle only to see a QB already having released the ball.
Its a Friggen Joke ...
It's Simple he is Fast Dynamic 1st step .
As far as Covering RB's and TE's he has
ZERO Interceptions and 5 Forced Fumbles
Shit Osi could do that in a Half a Season .
MAYBE he is going to be a better pro but
time will tell .
My hopeful guess is that the reports were wrong and Floyd is still 240 to 250. The supposed stomach issues combined with the supposed weight loss makes me paranoid that the guy has digestive issues or something like Crohns.
those gifs above look pretty nice to me. I was really torn by the negative stuff I've been reading. I know it's just a few videos, but damn. Looks like something to work with. And he wouldn't be coming to us "with a knee" like Jack.
Thanks ryan for those gifs. I feel much better now.
BC he can cover TE's and is athletic- thats the hoopla
other then that, I think he shouldnt be our pick. He reminds me of Quentin Coples , but Floyd can cover TE's....
Im a huge Georgia fan and watch all of their games and I never ever thought he would be a top ten pick until I heard he was rising on all these boards a couple months ago. No way should he go at pick 10 or before. Maybe mid to late 1st. I thought he would be too tall to play LB'er so in the NFL he would be turned into a DE. But the Giants seem to think he can handle 3 downs in the NFL. No way.
I think Darron Lee is better.
So unless we want to trade back for a good LB'er like Reggie Ragland or Darron Lee, I wouldnt risk having Floyd who is a 3-4 outside LB'er at pick 10. No way.
They want a DE, trade back and get Shaq Lawson or Robert Nkemidiche(Sp?) and pick up an extra pick, we could use it.
At pick 10, the player has to be able to come in and start. I think Stanley/Conklin can. I think Treadwell can. I think Hargreaves can at the slot to start off, if we trade back I even think Darron Lee or Ragland can too for LB.
Both of those LB'ers will be starting LB'ers for years to come. If we slide back and let a team get Lynch we can make out good, get a Ragland, Lee, Lawson, Treadwell, Apple and another pick or 2
I really don't want to spend yet another top pick on our line. I'm a firm believer in team attitude and we got rid of the trash. I think Flowers/Pugh/Richburg set the tone and as younger guys, will raise the level around them as well as the toughness.
We need a playmaker some where. Floyd, Hargreaves, Elliot can all be just that.
in disliking Floyd, since I normally ignore most things leading up to the draft and not ever look at footage of the potential picks. Not sure why this year was different. Maybe because people started targeting Floyd early on and I wanted to see what the excitement was about.
That's when it hit me - I watched the videos out there promoting Floyd and my thoughts were "These are the best plays they came up with"? So I started looking at Jack and the guy is making impact plays all over the place. One highlight reel of him contained at least a dozen instances of him making an impact. There's one where he rushes the passer, reverses field and makes the tackle on the ball carrier, from behind, WITH FORCE.
I watched some highlights of the OL and saw them getting pancakes and destroying guys, things you expect from highlights.
I really didn't expect to see Floyd and get an eyeful of several plays where he's in coverage and the guy catches the ball with him standing right there. I didn't expect to see a bunch of QB hurries (which gets a lot of people here jazzed up), where the QB throws the ball a step before Floyd arrives. I didn't expect to see highlights of him shedding a block, and then missing an arm tackle (yes - there is a clip of him doing that!).
I've literally never commented on more than a couple of pre-draft threads because I just don't care about most prospects, and the time I do, I come away as unimpressed as one can. I see the quickness. I see the potential. I just don't see the impact. This guy might be the #10 pick. We are going to want to see impact, not specialized play. He isn't joining the '85 Bears where Skinny Pete can be a complement to Singletary. He's joining a team with the worst LB's in the league and he'll be expected to make an impact, not cause a couple of hurries a game or be close enough to Witten to whisper "Great catch".
"well, I'd be OK with Floyd in the mid teens but NOT at 10." ??? Who cares, it's 5 picks. Most of the guys in that area are all rated the same. You gotta get your guy.
"well, I'd be OK with Floyd in the mid teens but NOT at 10." ??? Who cares, it's 5 picks. Most of the guys in that area are all rated the same. You gotta get your guy.
instead of another 1st round OL (assuming grades are similar), it might come down to would you rather have Jack and his knee or Floyd and his speed, wingspan and potential. Those gifs show there's a lot to work with, imo.
I'm not a remote thrower because I don't pretend to know better than the pros, so I'll be trusting Reese and co.
Don't want a guy that might not last the year. Great athlete yeah but micro fracture knee surgery waiting to happen. Alot of people want Conklin, he has a hard time blocking edge rushers and has slow feet. Do we really want him at #10? This draft has way to many variables in it. Top players are hurt and won't be drafted where they should. Not enough great players. Worried the giants will get stuck with plan b or c.
I don't want there to be stuff to work with at #10. That's for later rounds.
I want to say, "That's what we have!"
I don't want people to fall in love with a quick first step or his ability to stay with TE's if he isn't making plays. I think people underestimate that it isn't like this guy was at Maine Tech, he was at Georgia and he didn't dominate his peers. Thomas Davis was a Georgia LB who dominated his peers and had a highlight reel to marvel at. Everyone is marveling at potential or that he spun away from a lineman. Nobody is marveling at any actual plays, just his ability to possibly make a play.
RE: All the Georgia fans that I talk to ( I live in ATL)
I do wonder if the Noah Spence talk in round two is real. If they take Floyd in the first I think they should still take Spence in the second if he's the best on the board.
I really enjoyed your posts on Floyd. I'm in the "In Reece I Trust" camp, especially for the first round, and I don't claim to be an expert by any means. But your breakdown of Floyd's game was helpful and enlightening.
If the Giants draft him at #10, I'm going to assume that the guys that do this for a living know best. But your comments on this thread helped me understand more about Floyd's game and potential.
thanks. I've reiterated though that I will also trust the pros if Floyd is the pick and I will root like hell for him.
You will not hear me ever say "I told you so" if he fails. I take no joy in Giants failing.
My hope is that:
- He is taken before we pick
- If he's there we don't pick him
- We find a trading partner, move down and pick somebody else
Well, That was a lot to read but I also don't see the "impact" with Floyd. Everyone says he can cover well but the guy he covers caught the ball more often then not. I see a taller version of Osi who cant hold the edge if he was asked to (I know he is a LB). A guy that will get pushed around a bit in the NFL. long arms but always seemed to have someone in his chest.
1. 3 down player in year one
2. Pass Rush versatility will work well with JPP and Vernon.
3. Excellent in coverage and space.
4. Good player to have on your D vs read option. Will limit extended plays and runs by mobile QBs.
5. Chopperhatch hates the player
1. 3 down player in year one
2. Pass Rush versatility will work well with JPP and Vernon.
3. Excellent in coverage and space.
4. Good player to have on your D vs read option. Will limit extended plays and runs by mobile QBs.
5. Chopperhatch hates the player
Haha, #5 is great.
I'm actually really warming up to him. On another thread I stated how fun it will be to watch him, JPP, and Vernon just go to work together. The speed and hustle combo with those 3 would just be nuts. Add in the run stuffers with Hankins and Snacks and we can have a force of a front 7, making up for our lack of a FS.
With his lack of violent plays/contact, he should remain healthy.
All I can do is laugh, I can't say I didn't try. It is funny.
From 2 different scouts, one of which is Rob Rang. The other is one of those mysterious scouts who wish to remain anonymous.
Quote:
Has the requisite burst to surge past tackles as a speed rusher with underrated strength. He is surprisingly powerful at the point of attack, flashing dynamite in his hands with an effective hand slap to knock away blockers attempting to gain control.
Quote:
"The way they use him, he does everything at a high level. He covers the slot. He rushes the passer. They play him as a regular linebacker. I haven't seen anybody like him. Aldon Smith couldn't play up like this guy. Aldon was just go forward. I like him better than (Anthony) Barr. Barr wasn't the most physical guy. This guy plays hard."
I think NFL teams plan on using him much differently than Georgia did. From what I read and have seen, Georgia used him as an ILB much of the time.
I think NFL teams what to use him over the TE and as a pass rusher. Again, from what I read he has very unique coverage skills for a man with his body type. His first step is special. I do however worry about his ability/willingness to set the edge. I agree with FMiC in that he is not an impactful tackler.
He is 6'6" 245lbs who, by all accounts, has unique NFL coverage skills and a special first step. Most guys are one or the other, not both.
If he were an impactful tackler he would be in the discussion for San Diego.
First, he is down to like 230. Secondly, if he is to be used over the tight end, what is to stop teams from running right at him? A TE like Celek or Gronk would block him into the parking lot. If he is to be used in any capacity, it should be as a WILL.
other then that, I think he shouldnt be our pick. He reminds me of Quentin Coples , but Floyd can cover TE's....
Im a huge Georgia fan and watch all of their games and I never ever thought he would be a top ten pick until I heard he was rising on all these boards a couple months ago. No way should he go at pick 10 or before. Maybe mid to late 1st. I thought he would be too tall to play LB'er so in the NFL he would be turned into a DE. But the Giants seem to think he can handle 3 downs in the NFL. No way.
I think Darron Lee is better.
So unless we want to trade back for a good LB'er like Reggie Ragland or Darron Lee, I wouldnt risk having Floyd who is a 3-4 outside LB'er at pick 10. No way.
They want a DE, trade back and get Shaq Lawson or Robert Nkemidiche(Sp?) and pick up an extra pick, we could use it.
At pick 10, the player has to be able to come in and start. I think Stanley/Conklin can. I think Treadwell can. I think Hargreaves can at the slot to start off, if we trade back I even think Darron Lee or Ragland can too for LB.
Both of those LB'ers will be starting LB'ers for years to come. If we slide back and let a team get Lynch we can make out good, get a Ragland, Lee, Lawson, Treadwell, Apple and another pick or 2
Tough to find a trading partner though, unless lynch or Elliot are on the board. I'd probably take Elliot if he was available to be honest, but what do I know.
He can play over the TE just like Barr and others.
The OLB position doesn't matter for this player.
You don't have to flip him based on what the TE is doing or what the offense is doing. He will move from side to side. Play over the TE on some sets and on the other side. He will move forward to rush the QB and drop into coverage from both sides.
That's the value he brings. You dictate the action with this player and make it harder on the QB. You sure as hell don't have to hide him from a TE.
But, ask to be shown a play where Floyd actually hits somebody with force. I'm serious, ask for it and see how long it takes to get that video. For all of the discussion about pass rushing and pass coverage, Jack had more passes defended (which isn 't hard when Floyd tallied 4), and the best stat is his ability to hurry the passer, which will get more difficult to do in the NFL as large, quick linemen will be pushing his slight frame around.
Did I convince you yet?
He hits the QB with force.
But I think now the Demarcus Ware comparison is a good one. Floyd will probably need to add some muscle, but that's true of a lot of guys coming out of college. If scouts are correct that he can cover well, especially those big tight ends running around these days, he's an extremely rare and valuable piece.
Carl Banks calling him a "convertible" is a good term. To play OLB and drop into coverage on early downs, then become a dangerous pass rusher on 3rd down makes him a rare commodity
As for Floyd, he is a rare athlete. People are screaming for the big kill shots in his highlight videos are overlooking the fact that that's not his game. This is a size/speed/athleticism freak with the ability to cover a TE (when was the last time we could do that?) as well as rush the passer from the edge or with his hand in the dirt.
Personally, I feel his upside is everything they tried to force Kiwi to be, the only problem was Kiwi was more of a straight DE and this guy is more suited to that role. I think he is a fine prospect and one I would be excited to come away with.
I will say I don't see a need to trade up for anyone outside of Ramsey/Tunsil. If they trade up for Floyd, so be it but in that case I would prefer to sit tight and select Conklin, Hargreaves or a WR.
Floyd has the physical tools to put himself in position to make plays. At the college level. Guys in the NFL are faster and stronger. The tackles who are easily taking him out of plays in college exist everywhere in the NFL and his closing speed is going to be less effective because players are faster.
I see a guy who is in a position to make plays, but doesn't. He covers guys closely, but was so poor at ball skills that he was only credited with 4 passes defended. He gets a lot of hurries, but his sack numbers aren't impressive.
Mike - you don't have to hit head on and crush everyone. But Floyd isn't a form tackler, either. he chases and drags people down - which again, in the NFL is harder to do, and do we really want our LB's chasing and dragging? He's attempted arm tackles and failed in several clips. He's been stonewalled by blockers in many clips. He's overrun plays in many clips. I can't find a single clip where he lines up a ball carrier and forcefully brings him to the ground.
I'm actually really perplexed how people can not realize that the possible #10 pick in the draft at a position that requires one to tackle frequently is really poor at doing it and they are OK with it.
His ability to rush the passer and his ability to cover will make him a specialist at best. Again - you want that at #10?
I said earlier this week that I'd be OK with him in the 2nd round, and I'd run up and knock his skinny ass over to get to the podium to draft him in the 3rd. In the 1st? Complete enamoration with potential. Potential that requires a 24 year old to add weight...
Quote:
I said earlier this week that I'd be OK with him in the 2nd round, and I'd run up and knock his skinny ass over to get to the podium to draft him in the 3rd. In the 1st? Complete enamoration with potential. Potential that requires a 24 year old to add weight...
You realize that it's quite possible the Jaguars take him at 5, right? This isn't a 2nd or 3rd round player.
Quote:
I'm confused. "a quick first step on pass rushing moves and a guy with a wingspan and quickness to clog passing lanes. They also see a guy who runs fast." What exactly is bad about any of that? Those are traits that you need in the NFL to excel
Floyd has the physical tools to put himself in position to make plays. At the college level. Guys in the NFL are faster and stronger. The tackles who are easily taking him out of plays in college exist everywhere in the NFL and his closing speed is going to be less effective because players are faster.
I see a guy who is in a position to make plays, but doesn't. He covers guys closely, but was so poor at ball skills that he was only credited with 4 passes defended. He gets a lot of hurries, but his sack numbers aren't impressive.
Mike - you don't have to hit head on and crush everyone. But Floyd isn't a form tackler, either. he chases and drags people down - which again, in the NFL is harder to do, and do we really want our LB's chasing and dragging? He's attempted arm tackles and failed in several clips. He's been stonewalled by blockers in many clips. He's overrun plays in many clips. I can't find a single clip where he lines up a ball carrier and forcefully brings him to the ground.
I'm actually really perplexed how people can not realize that the possible #10 pick in the draft at a position that requires one to tackle frequently is really poor at doing it and they are OK with it.
His ability to rush the passer and his ability to cover will make him a specialist at best. Again - you want that at #10?
I said earlier this week that I'd be OK with him in the 2nd round, and I'd run up and knock his skinny ass over to get to the podium to draft him in the 3rd. In the 1st? Complete enamoration with potential. Potential that requires a 24 year old to add weight...
Alright, fair enough. I just think the tackling thing is a bit overrated. I think he shows fine ability to tackle.
I could give a rats ass where people want to draft him. He has all the markings of a first round bust. Measurables over production, a slight body frame, and he's relatively old. Add to that he didn't markedly improve or develop each year.
I hope to God the Jags take him. Or the Bucs.
Please!
My first choice was/is Myles Jack btw..I can be happy with the Giants drafting Floyd though if that is there choice. He is a tough football player, that needs to get stronger but is one of the top 5 athletes in the draft at any position...there are tools to work with, and as a blitzing linebacker he would certainly be a weapon for Spags.
On the one hand, a guy like Spags probably sees him as a valuable chess piece thinking "I can get this a guy a clean rush through my scheme, and he's got the killer speed to finish." It's not nothing. To date, the physical skills on our team LB would not allow him to say that.
BUT...given the above on his pash rush skillset, I'm very concerned that NFL blockers are going to be fooled/beaten cleanly A LOT LESS. Will he be like early career Osi around the edge who could just fly and beat anyone...or will he beat a like the older/slightly slower version who tried to loop around the edge and was easily pushed beyond the pocket and out of position? Especially without more bulk...the latter is a very serious concern for me. And good speed alone isn't going to be enough to make NFL blockers look like chumps the way it was in college for him. It just concerns me that you don't see a lot of sacks from him where his initial move fails, a blocker engages him, and then he counters and beats him. The technique and athleticism is just too sound in the NFL to expect to have guys lunging and missing consistently....even with really good speed.
My biggest fear is that he is a great prospect who can't hold weight for whatever reason. At that point he is purely a situational player.
The Giants view Floyd as more of a pass rush specialist. The fact that he is athletic enough to cover backs and TEs is gravy. If he is on this team he is going to be coming after the QB.
I don't want a toy at #10 for the coaches to play with. I want a football player. Not somebody who is dependent on those around him to occupy blockers so he can swoop in.
His measurables place him as a 1st rounder. His performance makes him look like a 3rd rounder. Just going on history, there aren't a lot of guys who live up to measurable status. Even JPP who had questions had a really impressive highlight reel. This is honestly the first time I've seen a highlight reel of a guy that contains clips where he isn't making plays, like where he's simply covering a receiver who catches the ball or where he gets by a Tackle only to see a QB already having released the ball.
It's Simple he is Fast Dynamic 1st step .
As far as Covering RB's and TE's he has
ZERO Interceptions and 5 Forced Fumbles
Shit Osi could do that in a Half a Season .
MAYBE he is going to be a better pro but
time will tell .
Looking forward to seeing him covering Witten WHILE rushing Romo.
If he can do that, he's well worth the pick! ;-P
Thanks ryan for those gifs. I feel much better now.
Im a huge Georgia fan and watch all of their games and I never ever thought he would be a top ten pick until I heard he was rising on all these boards a couple months ago. No way should he go at pick 10 or before. Maybe mid to late 1st. I thought he would be too tall to play LB'er so in the NFL he would be turned into a DE. But the Giants seem to think he can handle 3 downs in the NFL. No way.
I think Darron Lee is better.
So unless we want to trade back for a good LB'er like Reggie Ragland or Darron Lee, I wouldnt risk having Floyd who is a 3-4 outside LB'er at pick 10. No way.
They want a DE, trade back and get Shaq Lawson or Robert Nkemidiche(Sp?) and pick up an extra pick, we could use it.
At pick 10, the player has to be able to come in and start. I think Stanley/Conklin can. I think Treadwell can. I think Hargreaves can at the slot to start off, if we trade back I even think Darron Lee or Ragland can too for LB.
Both of those LB'ers will be starting LB'ers for years to come. If we slide back and let a team get Lynch we can make out good, get a Ragland, Lee, Lawson, Treadwell, Apple and another pick or 2
We need a playmaker some where. Floyd, Hargreaves, Elliot can all be just that.
This is exactly how I feel, spot on
That's when it hit me - I watched the videos out there promoting Floyd and my thoughts were "These are the best plays they came up with"? So I started looking at Jack and the guy is making impact plays all over the place. One highlight reel of him contained at least a dozen instances of him making an impact. There's one where he rushes the passer, reverses field and makes the tackle on the ball carrier, from behind, WITH FORCE.
I watched some highlights of the OL and saw them getting pancakes and destroying guys, things you expect from highlights.
I really didn't expect to see Floyd and get an eyeful of several plays where he's in coverage and the guy catches the ball with him standing right there. I didn't expect to see a bunch of QB hurries (which gets a lot of people here jazzed up), where the QB throws the ball a step before Floyd arrives. I didn't expect to see highlights of him shedding a block, and then missing an arm tackle (yes - there is a clip of him doing that!).
I've literally never commented on more than a couple of pre-draft threads because I just don't care about most prospects, and the time I do, I come away as unimpressed as one can. I see the quickness. I see the potential. I just don't see the impact. This guy might be the #10 pick. We are going to want to see impact, not specialized play. He isn't joining the '85 Bears where Skinny Pete can be a complement to Singletary. He's joining a team with the worst LB's in the league and he'll be expected to make an impact, not cause a couple of hurries a game or be close enough to Witten to whisper "Great catch".
Finally something we agree on.
Quote:
Finally something we agree on.
It's draft day - a good omen!
I'm not a remote thrower because I don't pretend to know better than the pros, so I'll be trusting Reese and co.
I don't want there to be stuff to work with at #10. That's for later rounds.
I want to say, "That's what we have!"
I don't want people to fall in love with a quick first step or his ability to stay with TE's if he isn't making plays. I think people underestimate that it isn't like this guy was at Maine Tech, he was at Georgia and he didn't dominate his peers. Thomas Davis was a Georgia LB who dominated his peers and had a highlight reel to marvel at. Everyone is marveling at potential or that he spun away from a lineman. Nobody is marveling at any actual plays, just his ability to possibly make a play.
I believe most scouts disagree with that analysis
If the Giants draft him at #10, I'm going to assume that the guys that do this for a living know best. But your comments on this thread helped me understand more about Floyd's game and potential.
You will not hear me ever say "I told you so" if he fails. I take no joy in Giants failing.
My hope is that:
- He is taken before we pick
- If he's there we don't pick him
- We find a trading partner, move down and pick somebody else
You will not hear me ever say "I told you so" if he fails. I take no joy in Giants failing.
My hope is that:
- He is taken before we pick
- If he's there we don't pick him
- We find a trading partner, move down and pick somebody else
Well, That was a lot to read but I also don't see the "impact" with Floyd. Everyone says he can cover well but the guy he covers caught the ball more often then not. I see a taller version of Osi who cant hold the edge if he was asked to (I know he is a LB). A guy that will get pushed around a bit in the NFL. long arms but always seemed to have someone in his chest.
If we take him I hope none of it is true.
2. Pass Rush versatility will work well with JPP and Vernon.
3. Excellent in coverage and space.
4. Good player to have on your D vs read option. Will limit extended plays and runs by mobile QBs.
5. Chopperhatch hates the player
2. Pass Rush versatility will work well with JPP and Vernon.
3. Excellent in coverage and space.
4. Good player to have on your D vs read option. Will limit extended plays and runs by mobile QBs.
5. Chopperhatch hates the player
Haha, #5 is great.
I'm actually really warming up to him. On another thread I stated how fun it will be to watch him, JPP, and Vernon just go to work together. The speed and hustle combo with those 3 would just be nuts. Add in the run stuffers with Hankins and Snacks and we can have a force of a front 7, making up for our lack of a FS.
All I can do is laugh, I can't say I didn't try. It is funny.
From 2 different scouts, one of which is Rob Rang. The other is one of those mysterious scouts who wish to remain anonymous.
I think NFL teams what to use him over the TE and as a pass rusher. Again, from what I read he has very unique coverage skills for a man with his body type. His first step is special. I do however worry about his ability/willingness to set the edge. I agree with FMiC in that he is not an impactful tackler.
He is 6'6" 245lbs who, by all accounts, has unique NFL coverage skills and a special first step. Most guys are one or the other, not both.
If he were an impactful tackler he would be in the discussion for San Diego.
First, he is down to like 230. Secondly, if he is to be used over the tight end, what is to stop teams from running right at him? A TE like Celek or Gronk would block him into the parking lot. If he is to be used in any capacity, it should be as a WILL.
Im a huge Georgia fan and watch all of their games and I never ever thought he would be a top ten pick until I heard he was rising on all these boards a couple months ago. No way should he go at pick 10 or before. Maybe mid to late 1st. I thought he would be too tall to play LB'er so in the NFL he would be turned into a DE. But the Giants seem to think he can handle 3 downs in the NFL. No way.
I think Darron Lee is better.
So unless we want to trade back for a good LB'er like Reggie Ragland or Darron Lee, I wouldnt risk having Floyd who is a 3-4 outside LB'er at pick 10. No way.
They want a DE, trade back and get Shaq Lawson or Robert Nkemidiche(Sp?) and pick up an extra pick, we could use it.
At pick 10, the player has to be able to come in and start. I think Stanley/Conklin can. I think Treadwell can. I think Hargreaves can at the slot to start off, if we trade back I even think Darron Lee or Ragland can too for LB.
Both of those LB'ers will be starting LB'ers for years to come. If we slide back and let a team get Lynch we can make out good, get a Ragland, Lee, Lawson, Treadwell, Apple and another pick or 2
Tough to find a trading partner though, unless lynch or Elliot are on the board. I'd probably take Elliot if he was available to be honest, but what do I know.
The OLB position doesn't matter for this player.
You don't have to flip him based on what the TE is doing or what the offense is doing. He will move from side to side. Play over the TE on some sets and on the other side. He will move forward to rush the QB and drop into coverage from both sides.
That's the value he brings. You dictate the action with this player and make it harder on the QB. You sure as hell don't have to hide him from a TE.