a quick first step on pass rushing moves and a guy with a wingspan and quickness to clog passing lanes. They also see a guy who runs fast.
But, ask to be shown a play where Floyd actually hits somebody with force. I'm serious, ask for it and see how long it takes to get that video. For all of the discussion about pass rushing and pass coverage, Jack had more passes defended (which isn 't hard when Floyd tallied 4), and the best stat is his ability to hurry the passer, which will get more difficult to do in the NFL as large, quick linemen will be pushing his slight frame around.
1. It's a passing league and he's unique in that he excels in both pass rushing and pass coverage. His ability to rush the passer allows the Giants to put Vernon inside on passing downs and get four good pass rushers on the line together.
2. Guys who play the run well are easy to find for obvious run downs.
3. No one else likely available excites.
who have basically only seen video clips and perhaps some games(and I seriously doubt they were concentrating on Floyd) as opposed to scouts who have seen him play a lot live as well as have countless hours of film from all angles and thorough scouting reports..
Many read what is said and repeat over and over the possible flaws in his game..I've never watched one second of video of any of these guys because they're going going to tell me all that much that would lead to any viable conclusions..
Reese has essentially rocked or near rocked the first round..
He can rush the passer and cover TEs at the same time.
Some juice to the pass rush. What a novel idea. Someone who can cover the tight end in the passing game.When was the last time we Giant fans could say that about our below average LB group. Lets hope Floyd is the guy.we have to trust Reese and our scouts.
a quick first step on pass rushing moves and a guy with a wingspan and quickness to clog passing lanes. They also see a guy who runs fast.
But, ask to be shown a play where Floyd actually hits somebody with force. I'm serious, ask for it and see how long it takes to get that video. For all of the discussion about pass rushing and pass coverage, Jack had more passes defended (which isn 't hard when Floyd tallied 4), and the best stat is his ability to hurry the passer, which will get more difficult to do in the NFL as large, quick linemen will be pushing his slight frame around.
Did I convince you yet?
Exactly Fat Man!! You draft guys like that in the 3rd round, not 1st, and definitely not with a top 10 pick and HELL FUCKING NEVER do you trade up to get him.
a quick first step on pass rushing moves and a guy with a wingspan and quickness to clog passing lanes. They also see a guy who runs fast.
But, ask to be shown a play where Floyd actually hits somebody with force. I'm serious, ask for it and see how long it takes to get that video. For all of the discussion about pass rushing and pass coverage, Jack had more passes defended (which isn 't hard when Floyd tallied 4), and the best stat is his ability to hurry the passer, which will get more difficult to do in the NFL as large, quick linemen will be pushing his slight frame around.
Did I convince you yet?
About as logical as you can get as to why Floyd might be a huge smokescreen and Giants FO continue to hope that Mack drops to them. (I am hoping this is the case)
who have basically only seen video clips and perhaps some games(and I seriously doubt they were concentrating on Floyd) as opposed to scouts who have seen him play a lot live as well as have countless hours of film from all angles and thorough scouting reports..
Many read what is said and repeat over and over the possible flaws in his game..I've never watched one second of video of any of these guys because they're going going to tell me all that much that would lead to any viable conclusions..
Reese has essentially rocked or near rocked the first round..
So why do you bother to even follow anything pre draft if you refuse to form your own opinion?
The Giants have a lot of 2-down LBs. They don't have a 3rd down LB
At 6-6, can cover slot receivers and rush the passer. Decent tackler in space. Could be the WILL the Giants have been looking for for a long time. And eventually may move to RDE.
and i'm defaulting to the Giants and their success in the first round.
I like his size speed combo and his ability to cover, I just don't know if that's worth the 10th overall pick. His downside is also well known and I have no idea if they are correctable.
Should be a fun night either way, not going to get butthurt about our pick.
Covering te and rb routes and screens was the giants biggest weakness. This guy can cover. He also can blitz qb on 3rd downs. Yeah, needs to get a little bigger and stronger but, that's easily obtained in a NFL training program. Can be a impact player. Defense first.
I think NFL teams plan on using him much differently than Georgia did. From what I read and have seen, Georgia used him as an ILB much of the time.
I think NFL teams what to use him over the TE and as a pass rusher. Again, from what I read he has very unique coverage skills for a man with his body type. His first step is special. I do however worry about his ability/willingness to set the edge. I agree with FMiC in that he is not an impactful tackler.
He is 6'6" 245lbs who, by all accounts, has unique NFL coverage skills and a special first step. Most guys are one or the other, not both.
If he were an impactful tackler he would be in the discussion for San Diego.
tonight to discover Floyd either slips to the end of the first round or gets picked up in the 2nd or 3rd. All the while, Kiper will be having a fit because he can't believe no one is jumping on him. Happens every year. An overhyped player that doesn't get taken like the talking heads thought they would.
a quick first step on pass rushing moves and a guy with a wingspan and quickness to clog passing lanes. They also see a guy who runs fast.
But, ask to be shown a play where Floyd actually hits somebody with force. I'm serious, ask for it and see how long it takes to get that video. For all of the discussion about pass rushing and pass coverage, Jack had more passes defended (which isn 't hard when Floyd tallied 4), and the best stat is his ability to hurry the passer, which will get more difficult to do in the NFL as large, quick linemen will be pushing his slight frame around.
Did I convince you yet?
He doesn't have to hit like Butkus. He's an excellent pass rusher, a phenomenal cover backer - BOTH area's of need. He's not going to break up double-team blocks. He will blow up screen passes, will respond and react quickly to underneath stuff (how many tackles last year?) - and finally, there would be an answer to TE's.
I really don't want to spend yet another top pick on our line. I'm a firm believer in team attitude and we got rid of the trash. I think Flowers/Pugh/Richburg set the tone and as younger guys, will raise the level around them as well as the toughness.
We need a playmaker some where. Floyd, Hargreaves, Elliot can all be just that.
and i'm defaulting to the Giants and their success in the first round.
I like his size speed combo and his ability to cover, I just don't know if that's worth the 10th overall pick. His downside is also well known and I have no idea if they are correctable.
Should be a fun night either way, not going to get butthurt about our pick.
Agreed..Anything I think I know(next to nothing) from reading opinions and mocks makes this process enjoyable for me..So much definitive shit being spewed under the guise of opinions..It should be fun
a quick first step on pass rushing moves and a guy with a wingspan and quickness to clog passing lanes. They also see a guy who runs fast.
But, ask to be shown a play where Floyd actually hits somebody with force. I'm serious, ask for it and see how long it takes to get that video. For all of the discussion about pass rushing and pass coverage, Jack had more passes defended (which isn 't hard when Floyd tallied 4), and the best stat is his ability to hurry the passer, which will get more difficult to do in the NFL as large, quick linemen will be pushing his slight frame around.
Did I convince you yet?
He doesn't have to hit like Butkus. He's an excellent pass rusher, a phenomenal cover backer - BOTH area's of need. He's not going to break up double-team blocks. He will blow up screen passes, will respond and react quickly to underneath stuff (how many tackles last year?) - and finally, there would be an answer to TE's.
xm, always glad to see you. To your opinion: If the Giants truly see what you see, I will be thrilled with the pick..It's been way too long
I know they are different players, but one was a speedy LB valued for coverage and blitzing skills who turned out to be soft as a tackler. Rivers was picked #9.
Soft guys disappoint in every draft. You guys could really just make this easy and post a clip of Floyd hitting somebody straight on knocking them backwards. It appears that in three years, that clip is as rare as spotting Bigfoot.
All the Georgia fans that I talk to ( I live in ATL)
Pros - Speed. To see a guy as tall and big as he is move the way he does is unusual. He's very natural and fluid in his movement and even does a decent job of getting low to try to play with leverage. You will regularly see him turn and run with RBs, TEs, and even slot WRs. Speed around the edge is excellent. Put him behind some big sillies who can clean up the trash and you could see him being a very disruptive player. Seems to diagnose plays pretty well. Showed good discipline and played within the scheme.
Cons - Size. He's a speed player and it shows. When engaged head on by blockers, I just don't see a guy that has a counter. He either beats his man off his initial move or he loses. The bull rush is not a legitimate move for him...but rather, just a set up for the speed. As noted above, he speed could be a real asset if lineman in front of him keep him clean....but really struggles to hold his position in the run game when required to engage a blocker. As noted above, for a tall man, he does a good job staying low...but even with good leverage...he often still got overpowered. My fear is that the Giants have fallen in love with what they think he could become because they're assuming that he will get a bit bigger and stronger...but that this simply won't happen and he'll always be a guy who can run with anyone but just gets overpowered too much to be a 3 down player. Also, for all the speed in coverage, I'm not sure he has displayed a ton in the way of ball skills.
I'm confused. "a quick first step on pass rushing moves and a guy with a wingspan and quickness to clog passing lanes. They also see a guy who runs fast." What exactly is bad about any of that? Those are traits that you need in the NFL to excel. Floyd has those waking up.
1. You can't teach the athleticism that Floyd has. Most linebackers would dream of it.
2. For all the "he can't tackle, he's soft" stuff that has been thrown around this board - it's simply not true. Plenty of form tackles, drag downs and big hits in the video I show below, and that's just a kid who put highlights together. So now you don't just have to tackle - you have to tackle "with force" in order to be considered good? Floyd had 74 tackles this past season, playing a hybrid LB/DE spot for Georgia. That's good. Are you looking at every single tackle he makes and saying "look - he didn't wrap up the running back!! He just kinda shoved him down there! Ugh that was such a bad tackle!" Cause if you are, that's silly. A tackle is a fucking tackle.
3. If every GM drafted solely based on production, they'd be out of a job. Sometimes, you have to take guys that show elite skills and had solid if not great production in their college careers. I don't have to list the amount of pro bowl players that this has happened to - it's a dumb exercise. It happened in every sport - college production isn't an indicator of pro success. Yes, it certainly helps, but you have to show that you belong with elite athletes. Floyd had a good career at Georgia, but shows the measurables of a player that can really dominate at the next level.
4. By all accounts he's a good kid that loves football. Team captain, small town kid who keeps his head down and works hard.
5. For the Giants, he would play the WILL spot. A true 3 down linebacker who can rush the passer on third down, in front of the D line that we currently have in place, will be a nightmare for opposing offenses to gameplan for. Floyd shooting up the gap or around the edge - which is what he does best - will be a great sight to see for Giants fans who haven't had a linebacker with as much talent as Floyd as some time.
I've seen alot of guys hit hard and not bring the guy down. I know you were section 4 back in the day, like I was. I played s and my coach always said, go for the legs and wrap. It worked just fine. There are many ways to tackle. You don't have to crush someone to get them to the ground.
a quick first step on pass rushing moves and a guy with a wingspan and quickness to clog passing lanes. They also see a guy who runs fast.
But, ask to be shown a play where Floyd actually hits somebody with force. I'm serious, ask for it and see how long it takes to get that video. For all of the discussion about pass rushing and pass coverage, Jack had more passes defended (which isn 't hard when Floyd tallied 4), and the best stat is his ability to hurry the passer, which will get more difficult to do in the NFL as large, quick linemen will be pushing his slight frame around.
I originally saw a guy too thin and lanky to stand up to blockers in the run game, and not strong enough to get around big tackles in the nfl.
But I think now the Demarcus Ware comparison is a good one. Floyd will probably need to add some muscle, but that's true of a lot of guys coming out of college. If scouts are correct that he can cover well, especially those big tight ends running around these days, he's an extremely rare and valuable piece.
Carl Banks calling him a "convertible" is a good term. To play OLB and drop into coverage on early downs, then become a dangerous pass rusher on 3rd down makes him a rare commodity
For all the sh*t Reese takes (alot of it deserved), go back and look at his track record in the 1st round. It's pretty excellent and probably the biggest reason why you should be "somewhat" at ease if the Giants feel he is worth their 1st round selection.
As for Floyd, he is a rare athlete. People are screaming for the big kill shots in his highlight videos are overlooking the fact that that's not his game. This is a size/speed/athleticism freak with the ability to cover a TE (when was the last time we could do that?) as well as rush the passer from the edge or with his hand in the dirt.
Personally, I feel his upside is everything they tried to force Kiwi to be, the only problem was Kiwi was more of a straight DE and this guy is more suited to that role. I think he is a fine prospect and one I would be excited to come away with.
I will say I don't see a need to trade up for anyone outside of Ramsey/Tunsil. If they trade up for Floyd, so be it but in that case I would prefer to sit tight and select Conklin, Hargreaves or a WR.
I'm confused. "a quick first step on pass rushing moves and a guy with a wingspan and quickness to clog passing lanes. They also see a guy who runs fast." What exactly is bad about any of that? Those are traits that you need in the NFL to excel
Floyd has the physical tools to put himself in position to make plays. At the college level. Guys in the NFL are faster and stronger. The tackles who are easily taking him out of plays in college exist everywhere in the NFL and his closing speed is going to be less effective because players are faster.
I see a guy who is in a position to make plays, but doesn't. He covers guys closely, but was so poor at ball skills that he was only credited with 4 passes defended. He gets a lot of hurries, but his sack numbers aren't impressive.
Mike - you don't have to hit head on and crush everyone. But Floyd isn't a form tackler, either. he chases and drags people down - which again, in the NFL is harder to do, and do we really want our LB's chasing and dragging? He's attempted arm tackles and failed in several clips. He's been stonewalled by blockers in many clips. He's overrun plays in many clips. I can't find a single clip where he lines up a ball carrier and forcefully brings him to the ground.
I'm actually really perplexed how people can not realize that the possible #10 pick in the draft at a position that requires one to tackle frequently is really poor at doing it and they are OK with it.
His ability to rush the passer and his ability to cover will make him a specialist at best. Again - you want that at #10?
I said earlier this week that I'd be OK with him in the 2nd round, and I'd run up and knock his skinny ass over to get to the podium to draft him in the 3rd. In the 1st? Complete enamoration with potential. Potential that requires a 24 year old to add weight...
I said earlier this week that I'd be OK with him in the 2nd round, and I'd run up and knock his skinny ass over to get to the podium to draft him in the 3rd. In the 1st? Complete enamoration with potential. Potential that requires a 24 year old to add weight...
You realize that it's quite possible the Jaguars take him at 5, right? This isn't a 2nd or 3rd round player.
I'm confused. "a quick first step on pass rushing moves and a guy with a wingspan and quickness to clog passing lanes. They also see a guy who runs fast." What exactly is bad about any of that? Those are traits that you need in the NFL to excel
Floyd has the physical tools to put himself in position to make plays. At the college level. Guys in the NFL are faster and stronger. The tackles who are easily taking him out of plays in college exist everywhere in the NFL and his closing speed is going to be less effective because players are faster.
I see a guy who is in a position to make plays, but doesn't. He covers guys closely, but was so poor at ball skills that he was only credited with 4 passes defended. He gets a lot of hurries, but his sack numbers aren't impressive.
Mike - you don't have to hit head on and crush everyone. But Floyd isn't a form tackler, either. he chases and drags people down - which again, in the NFL is harder to do, and do we really want our LB's chasing and dragging? He's attempted arm tackles and failed in several clips. He's been stonewalled by blockers in many clips. He's overrun plays in many clips. I can't find a single clip where he lines up a ball carrier and forcefully brings him to the ground.
I'm actually really perplexed how people can not realize that the possible #10 pick in the draft at a position that requires one to tackle frequently is really poor at doing it and they are OK with it.
His ability to rush the passer and his ability to cover will make him a specialist at best. Again - you want that at #10?
I said earlier this week that I'd be OK with him in the 2nd round, and I'd run up and knock his skinny ass over to get to the podium to draft him in the 3rd. In the 1st? Complete enamoration with potential. Potential that requires a 24 year old to add weight...
Alright, fair enough. I just think the tackling thing is a bit overrated. I think he shows fine ability to tackle.
Say he needs to get stronger, say his slight build is a detriment
and he needs to add weight. I get that. The guy isn't soft though.I posted an hour long breakdown, 1 hour where they just evaluated 1 player: Leonard Floyd. Where they questioned his ability as a full time pass rusher, but they lauded him for seeking out contact and initiating contact...the knock on him was not lack of being aggressive..he initiates contact, he will hit guards, pop TEs and knock people back. So, again, he isn't perfect, he is undersized and needs to add weight and that is as concern..but he is an aggressive player who will seek contact.
we picked Cedric Jones in the Top 5. Keith Rivers was picked #9.
I could give a rats ass where people want to draft him. He has all the markings of a first round bust. Measurables over production, a slight body frame, and he's relatively old. Add to that he didn't markedly improve or develop each year.
Every player in this draft has a weakness. Floyd, can overcome his tackling problem. The right coaching and strength program can change the way he does things. I see a guy who is a athlete, who can run with te and rb. Also, he can blitz off the edge when they bring five.
I was trying to find some videos of Floyd engaging
and knocking lineman or TE's backward. There are a couple in there where he doesn't make the play, but he fires in and knocks a TE or tackle or guard back. A 3rd and 1 vs Bama, where at 230lbs you'd think Floyd would be 10 yards down the field on roller skates. His teammate made the play, but Floyd fought off his blockers and was right there.
My first choice was/is Myles Jack btw..I can be happy with the Giants drafting Floyd though if that is there choice. He is a tough football player, that needs to get stronger but is one of the top 5 athletes in the draft at any position...there are tools to work with, and as a blitzing linebacker he would certainly be a weapon for Spags.
Look at all those pass rushing clips. His sacks seem to come almost exclusively in one of two ways: 1) he gets a lineman leaning or lunging and then whiffing or 2) he comes hard and fast around the edge with a straight speed move or essentially untouched on a stunt.
On the one hand, a guy like Spags probably sees him as a valuable chess piece thinking "I can get this a guy a clean rush through my scheme, and he's got the killer speed to finish." It's not nothing. To date, the physical skills on our team LB would not allow him to say that.
BUT...given the above on his pash rush skillset, I'm very concerned that NFL blockers are going to be fooled/beaten cleanly A LOT LESS. Will he be like early career Osi around the edge who could just fly and beat anyone...or will he beat a like the older/slightly slower version who tried to loop around the edge and was easily pushed beyond the pocket and out of position? Especially without more bulk...the latter is a very serious concern for me. And good speed alone isn't going to be enough to make NFL blockers look like chumps the way it was in college for him. It just concerns me that you don't see a lot of sacks from him where his initial move fails, a blocker engages him, and then he counters and beats him. The technique and athleticism is just too sound in the NFL to expect to have guys lunging and missing consistently....even with really good speed.
Surprise me with Floyd. He played at 226, bulked to 248 for the combine and tested insanely and then within weeks was down to 235.... Why? This is a guy who will be 24 at seasons start (or 85 if you ask others). His weight and lack of strength testing is concerning. I can get behind the scouts and Reese seeing a guy that can be coached up into a monster, I don't see it but I'm not a professional in the NFL. I can readily admit that if the team and scouts love his play that I can be wrong. If we put those issues aside the weight and strength concerns still look concerning to the casual fan.
My biggest fear is that he is a great prospect who can't hold weight for whatever reason. At that point he is purely a situational player.
The disconnect you are having here is trying to compare him to Keith Rivers or a more traditional LB.
The Giants view Floyd as more of a pass rush specialist. The fact that he is athletic enough to cover backs and TEs is gravy. If he is on this team he is going to be coming after the QB.
The combine weight is official though, that weight reported by Atlanta...is confusing to me. I mean, the guy is/was shredded at 244..blew up the combine at that weight..wasn't like he gained weight and slowed down or didn't test well. So, that would lead me to believe that he was absolutely a solid 244. I was a wrestler and I get that weight can fluctuate by 10 pounds based on being dehydrated etc. It is just odd, you wouldn't think you would lose 10 pounds of muscle from the combine to April. That weight reported by Atlanta, is very odd to me.(Atlanta is looking at Floyd as a middle linebacker btw)
I understand that. I don't want a specialist at #10. Especially at LB. If he's a specialist as a pass rusher, he's better suited for the 3-4. If he's a supposedly strong coverage LB, then when is he doing that?
I don't want a toy at #10 for the coaches to play with. I want a football player. Not somebody who is dependent on those around him to occupy blockers so he can swoop in.
His measurables place him as a 1st rounder. His performance makes him look like a 3rd rounder. Just going on history, there aren't a lot of guys who live up to measurable status. Even JPP who had questions had a really impressive highlight reel. This is honestly the first time I've seen a highlight reel of a guy that contains clips where he isn't making plays, like where he's simply covering a receiver who catches the ball or where he gets by a Tackle only to see a QB already having released the ball.
But, ask to be shown a play where Floyd actually hits somebody with force. I'm serious, ask for it and see how long it takes to get that video. For all of the discussion about pass rushing and pass coverage, Jack had more passes defended (which isn 't hard when Floyd tallied 4), and the best stat is his ability to hurry the passer, which will get more difficult to do in the NFL as large, quick linemen will be pushing his slight frame around.
Did I convince you yet?
2. Guys who play the run well are easy to find for obvious run downs.
3. No one else likely available excites.
Please post your views on Floyd within this thread.
thank you.
Many read what is said and repeat over and over the possible flaws in his game..I've never watched one second of video of any of these guys because they're going going to tell me all that much that would lead to any viable conclusions..
Reese has essentially rocked or near rocked the first round..
But, ask to be shown a play where Floyd actually hits somebody with force. I'm serious, ask for it and see how long it takes to get that video. For all of the discussion about pass rushing and pass coverage, Jack had more passes defended (which isn 't hard when Floyd tallied 4), and the best stat is his ability to hurry the passer, which will get more difficult to do in the NFL as large, quick linemen will be pushing his slight frame around.
Did I convince you yet?
Exactly Fat Man!! You draft guys like that in the 3rd round, not 1st, and definitely not with a top 10 pick and HELL FUCKING NEVER do you trade up to get him.
But, ask to be shown a play where Floyd actually hits somebody with force. I'm serious, ask for it and see how long it takes to get that video. For all of the discussion about pass rushing and pass coverage, Jack had more passes defended (which isn 't hard when Floyd tallied 4), and the best stat is his ability to hurry the passer, which will get more difficult to do in the NFL as large, quick linemen will be pushing his slight frame around.
Did I convince you yet?
About as logical as you can get as to why Floyd might be a huge smokescreen and Giants FO continue to hope that Mack drops to them. (I am hoping this is the case)
Many read what is said and repeat over and over the possible flaws in his game..I've never watched one second of video of any of these guys because they're going going to tell me all that much that would lead to any viable conclusions..
Reese has essentially rocked or near rocked the first round..
So why do you bother to even follow anything pre draft if you refuse to form your own opinion?
Giants need him to replace all the 2-down LBs on 3rd down.
I like his size speed combo and his ability to cover, I just don't know if that's worth the 10th overall pick. His downside is also well known and I have no idea if they are correctable.
Should be a fun night either way, not going to get butthurt about our pick.
I think NFL teams what to use him over the TE and as a pass rusher. Again, from what I read he has very unique coverage skills for a man with his body type. His first step is special. I do however worry about his ability/willingness to set the edge. I agree with FMiC in that he is not an impactful tackler.
He is 6'6" 245lbs who, by all accounts, has unique NFL coverage skills and a special first step. Most guys are one or the other, not both.
If he were an impactful tackler he would be in the discussion for San Diego.
But, ask to be shown a play where Floyd actually hits somebody with force. I'm serious, ask for it and see how long it takes to get that video. For all of the discussion about pass rushing and pass coverage, Jack had more passes defended (which isn 't hard when Floyd tallied 4), and the best stat is his ability to hurry the passer, which will get more difficult to do in the NFL as large, quick linemen will be pushing his slight frame around.
Did I convince you yet?
We need a playmaker some where. Floyd, Hargreaves, Elliot can all be just that.
I like his size speed combo and his ability to cover, I just don't know if that's worth the 10th overall pick. His downside is also well known and I have no idea if they are correctable.
Should be a fun night either way, not going to get butthurt about our pick.
Agreed..Anything I think I know(next to nothing) from reading opinions and mocks makes this process enjoyable for me..So much definitive shit being spewed under the guise of opinions..It should be fun
I think it's down to three - Floyd, Conklin, Hargreaves but, I think Beckham was a bit of a surprise pick two years ago, so you never know.
Quote:
a quick first step on pass rushing moves and a guy with a wingspan and quickness to clog passing lanes. They also see a guy who runs fast.
But, ask to be shown a play where Floyd actually hits somebody with force. I'm serious, ask for it and see how long it takes to get that video. For all of the discussion about pass rushing and pass coverage, Jack had more passes defended (which isn 't hard when Floyd tallied 4), and the best stat is his ability to hurry the passer, which will get more difficult to do in the NFL as large, quick linemen will be pushing his slight frame around.
Did I convince you yet?
He doesn't have to hit like Butkus. He's an excellent pass rusher, a phenomenal cover backer - BOTH area's of need. He's not going to break up double-team blocks. He will blow up screen passes, will respond and react quickly to underneath stuff (how many tackles last year?) - and finally, there would be an answer to TE's.
xm, always glad to see you. To your opinion: If the Giants truly see what you see, I will be thrilled with the pick..It's been way too long
I think it's down to three - Floyd, Conklin, Hargreaves but, I think Beckham was a bit of a surprise pick two years ago, so you never know.
Yeah, iirc, Beckham wasn't in Watkins' or Evans' class according to pundits
http://i.imgur.com/6zmZpks.gif[/img]
http://i.makeagif.com/media/10-11-2015/DYg874.gif[/img]
I know they are different players, but one was a speedy LB valued for coverage and blitzing skills who turned out to be soft as a tackler. Rivers was picked #9.
Soft guys disappoint in every draft. You guys could really just make this easy and post a clip of Floyd hitting somebody straight on knocking them backwards. It appears that in three years, that clip is as rare as spotting Bigfoot.
Cons - Size. He's a speed player and it shows. When engaged head on by blockers, I just don't see a guy that has a counter. He either beats his man off his initial move or he loses. The bull rush is not a legitimate move for him...but rather, just a set up for the speed. As noted above, he speed could be a real asset if lineman in front of him keep him clean....but really struggles to hold his position in the run game when required to engage a blocker. As noted above, for a tall man, he does a good job staying low...but even with good leverage...he often still got overpowered. My fear is that the Giants have fallen in love with what they think he could become because they're assuming that he will get a bit bigger and stronger...but that this simply won't happen and he'll always be a guy who can run with anyone but just gets overpowered too much to be a 3 down player. Also, for all the speed in coverage, I'm not sure he has displayed a ton in the way of ball skills.
1. You can't teach the athleticism that Floyd has. Most linebackers would dream of it.
2. For all the "he can't tackle, he's soft" stuff that has been thrown around this board - it's simply not true. Plenty of form tackles, drag downs and big hits in the video I show below, and that's just a kid who put highlights together. So now you don't just have to tackle - you have to tackle "with force" in order to be considered good? Floyd had 74 tackles this past season, playing a hybrid LB/DE spot for Georgia. That's good. Are you looking at every single tackle he makes and saying "look - he didn't wrap up the running back!! He just kinda shoved him down there! Ugh that was such a bad tackle!" Cause if you are, that's silly. A tackle is a fucking tackle.
3. If every GM drafted solely based on production, they'd be out of a job. Sometimes, you have to take guys that show elite skills and had solid if not great production in their college careers. I don't have to list the amount of pro bowl players that this has happened to - it's a dumb exercise. It happened in every sport - college production isn't an indicator of pro success. Yes, it certainly helps, but you have to show that you belong with elite athletes. Floyd had a good career at Georgia, but shows the measurables of a player that can really dominate at the next level.
4. By all accounts he's a good kid that loves football. Team captain, small town kid who keeps his head down and works hard.
5. For the Giants, he would play the WILL spot. A true 3 down linebacker who can rush the passer on third down, in front of the D line that we currently have in place, will be a nightmare for opposing offenses to gameplan for. Floyd shooting up the gap or around the edge - which is what he does best - will be a great sight to see for Giants fans who haven't had a linebacker with as much talent as Floyd as some time.
That is all. Not saying he'll definitely be the pick - but if he is I think it's a great choice.
Leonard Floyd tackling - ( New Window )
But, ask to be shown a play where Floyd actually hits somebody with force. I'm serious, ask for it and see how long it takes to get that video. For all of the discussion about pass rushing and pass coverage, Jack had more passes defended (which isn 't hard when Floyd tallied 4), and the best stat is his ability to hurry the passer, which will get more difficult to do in the NFL as large, quick linemen will be pushing his slight frame around.
Did I convince you yet?
He hits the QB with force.
But I think now the Demarcus Ware comparison is a good one. Floyd will probably need to add some muscle, but that's true of a lot of guys coming out of college. If scouts are correct that he can cover well, especially those big tight ends running around these days, he's an extremely rare and valuable piece.
Carl Banks calling him a "convertible" is a good term. To play OLB and drop into coverage on early downs, then become a dangerous pass rusher on 3rd down makes him a rare commodity
As for Floyd, he is a rare athlete. People are screaming for the big kill shots in his highlight videos are overlooking the fact that that's not his game. This is a size/speed/athleticism freak with the ability to cover a TE (when was the last time we could do that?) as well as rush the passer from the edge or with his hand in the dirt.
Personally, I feel his upside is everything they tried to force Kiwi to be, the only problem was Kiwi was more of a straight DE and this guy is more suited to that role. I think he is a fine prospect and one I would be excited to come away with.
I will say I don't see a need to trade up for anyone outside of Ramsey/Tunsil. If they trade up for Floyd, so be it but in that case I would prefer to sit tight and select Conklin, Hargreaves or a WR.
Floyd has the physical tools to put himself in position to make plays. At the college level. Guys in the NFL are faster and stronger. The tackles who are easily taking him out of plays in college exist everywhere in the NFL and his closing speed is going to be less effective because players are faster.
I see a guy who is in a position to make plays, but doesn't. He covers guys closely, but was so poor at ball skills that he was only credited with 4 passes defended. He gets a lot of hurries, but his sack numbers aren't impressive.
Mike - you don't have to hit head on and crush everyone. But Floyd isn't a form tackler, either. he chases and drags people down - which again, in the NFL is harder to do, and do we really want our LB's chasing and dragging? He's attempted arm tackles and failed in several clips. He's been stonewalled by blockers in many clips. He's overrun plays in many clips. I can't find a single clip where he lines up a ball carrier and forcefully brings him to the ground.
I'm actually really perplexed how people can not realize that the possible #10 pick in the draft at a position that requires one to tackle frequently is really poor at doing it and they are OK with it.
His ability to rush the passer and his ability to cover will make him a specialist at best. Again - you want that at #10?
I said earlier this week that I'd be OK with him in the 2nd round, and I'd run up and knock his skinny ass over to get to the podium to draft him in the 3rd. In the 1st? Complete enamoration with potential. Potential that requires a 24 year old to add weight...
Quote:
I said earlier this week that I'd be OK with him in the 2nd round, and I'd run up and knock his skinny ass over to get to the podium to draft him in the 3rd. In the 1st? Complete enamoration with potential. Potential that requires a 24 year old to add weight...
You realize that it's quite possible the Jaguars take him at 5, right? This isn't a 2nd or 3rd round player.
Quote:
I'm confused. "a quick first step on pass rushing moves and a guy with a wingspan and quickness to clog passing lanes. They also see a guy who runs fast." What exactly is bad about any of that? Those are traits that you need in the NFL to excel
Floyd has the physical tools to put himself in position to make plays. At the college level. Guys in the NFL are faster and stronger. The tackles who are easily taking him out of plays in college exist everywhere in the NFL and his closing speed is going to be less effective because players are faster.
I see a guy who is in a position to make plays, but doesn't. He covers guys closely, but was so poor at ball skills that he was only credited with 4 passes defended. He gets a lot of hurries, but his sack numbers aren't impressive.
Mike - you don't have to hit head on and crush everyone. But Floyd isn't a form tackler, either. he chases and drags people down - which again, in the NFL is harder to do, and do we really want our LB's chasing and dragging? He's attempted arm tackles and failed in several clips. He's been stonewalled by blockers in many clips. He's overrun plays in many clips. I can't find a single clip where he lines up a ball carrier and forcefully brings him to the ground.
I'm actually really perplexed how people can not realize that the possible #10 pick in the draft at a position that requires one to tackle frequently is really poor at doing it and they are OK with it.
His ability to rush the passer and his ability to cover will make him a specialist at best. Again - you want that at #10?
I said earlier this week that I'd be OK with him in the 2nd round, and I'd run up and knock his skinny ass over to get to the podium to draft him in the 3rd. In the 1st? Complete enamoration with potential. Potential that requires a 24 year old to add weight...
Alright, fair enough. I just think the tackling thing is a bit overrated. I think he shows fine ability to tackle.
I could give a rats ass where people want to draft him. He has all the markings of a first round bust. Measurables over production, a slight body frame, and he's relatively old. Add to that he didn't markedly improve or develop each year.
I hope to God the Jags take him. Or the Bucs.
Please!
My first choice was/is Myles Jack btw..I can be happy with the Giants drafting Floyd though if that is there choice. He is a tough football player, that needs to get stronger but is one of the top 5 athletes in the draft at any position...there are tools to work with, and as a blitzing linebacker he would certainly be a weapon for Spags.
On the one hand, a guy like Spags probably sees him as a valuable chess piece thinking "I can get this a guy a clean rush through my scheme, and he's got the killer speed to finish." It's not nothing. To date, the physical skills on our team LB would not allow him to say that.
BUT...given the above on his pash rush skillset, I'm very concerned that NFL blockers are going to be fooled/beaten cleanly A LOT LESS. Will he be like early career Osi around the edge who could just fly and beat anyone...or will he beat a like the older/slightly slower version who tried to loop around the edge and was easily pushed beyond the pocket and out of position? Especially without more bulk...the latter is a very serious concern for me. And good speed alone isn't going to be enough to make NFL blockers look like chumps the way it was in college for him. It just concerns me that you don't see a lot of sacks from him where his initial move fails, a blocker engages him, and then he counters and beats him. The technique and athleticism is just too sound in the NFL to expect to have guys lunging and missing consistently....even with really good speed.
My biggest fear is that he is a great prospect who can't hold weight for whatever reason. At that point he is purely a situational player.
The Giants view Floyd as more of a pass rush specialist. The fact that he is athletic enough to cover backs and TEs is gravy. If he is on this team he is going to be coming after the QB.
I don't want a toy at #10 for the coaches to play with. I want a football player. Not somebody who is dependent on those around him to occupy blockers so he can swoop in.
His measurables place him as a 1st rounder. His performance makes him look like a 3rd rounder. Just going on history, there aren't a lot of guys who live up to measurable status. Even JPP who had questions had a really impressive highlight reel. This is honestly the first time I've seen a highlight reel of a guy that contains clips where he isn't making plays, like where he's simply covering a receiver who catches the ball or where he gets by a Tackle only to see a QB already having released the ball.