Timothy Finnegan @TimFinn521 13h13 hours ago
Harvey has had problems holding his velocity after 75 or so pitches this year. Velo down to 92-93 so far in 5th at 80 p mark
2 retweets 3 likes
Reply Retweet 2
Like 3
More
Timothy Finnegan @TimFinn521 13h13 hours ago
Harvey still not his vintage self but stuff looks way better tonight...encouraging progress
last night. I guess some people want 7 shut out innings in order for him to be "back". In my opinion (and I'm allowed), he was in control, his velocity was back, and aside for the first HR he was VERY good. Sure it's the Reds, and it wasn't a no-hitter... But Ill take THAT Harvey every single day of the year going forward.
I was VERY happy.
And I really dont care about how many hits he gave up either
There were at least three bullshit flairs he gave up and the defense behind him was laughable all night. He showed composure working in spite of the hysterics all night.
last night. I guess some people want 7 shut out innings in order for him to be "back". In my opinion (and I'm allowed), he was in control, his velocity was back, and aside for the first HR he was VERY good. Sure it's the Reds, and it wasn't a no-hitter... But Ill take THAT Harvey every single day of the year going forward.
I was VERY happy.
You are of course allowed to have your own opinion but almost every single article I have read this morning seems to align with my feelings including from Collins
Quote:
Harvey's night did not turn long or ugly. In fact, he settled into a groove after that first inning on Monday and tossed perhaps his best outing of the season in the Mets' 5-2 win over the Cincinnati Reds.
It wasn't great, but it was better, and that's what he and the team want to see right now.
Indeed, for Harvey, six innings and two earned runs is progress.
"(Pitching coach) Dan [Warthen] I have been working so hard the past couple weeks to figure out what's been going on, and we're moving in the right direction, so it's definitely a big positive tonight and a huge series for us," Harvey said.
Maybe even more important for Harvey, something he can take into his next start, is that on Wednesday in the sixth inning, when hit pitch count was nearing 100, he was able to light up the radar gun to 97 miles per hour and strike out the last hitter. It was the hardest his fastball has been all year on a consistent basis.
"I think the ball came out of his hand much better [Wednesday], much cleaner," manager Terry Collins said. "This is the best he's thrown all year. Again, we all expect great things out of these young guys because they're so good, and so talented, but we have to have a little bit of patience. He's making strides."
Harvey but he looked a lot better. Velocity was a tick up and his stuff just seemed to have more bite. Location not completely there yet, but last night was a very positive sign.
Nats dropping two in a row to Philly is a nice gift too.
"I still didn't feel great the entire outing," Harvey said. "But overall, I was able to stay in my mechanics better, and kind of attack the hitters the way I normally would, and want to."
Certainly looked much better just wasn't "he's 100% looking like A+ Harvey" yet. Hopefully that's on the way.
Harvey but he looked a lot better. Velocity was a tick up and his stuff just seemed to have more bite. Location not completely there yet, but last night was a very positive sign.
Nats dropping two in a row to Philly is a nice gift too.
97 on his last pitch was a great sign as was the increase in swing%. The lack of swing and misses was more troubling than the velocity the first few starts.
A step forward was what I needed to see. Didn't necessarily expect a completely dominant outing.. he'll hopefully work his way back to those. I just needed to see something better than the first few.. which it certainly was.
Let's say "Normal Harvey" grades out on a scale of 1-10
between 8-10 normally with 10 being extremely rare, and 8 and 9 most of the time. The first four games he graded out around a 3. Truly awful. He was about back to a 7 or even 8 last night.
Maybe that's bad terminology but the way I see it.
But yesterday was certainly a step in that direction. The velocity looked good. Got out of a couple of jams. Hopefully his next start is even better. I think this was a nice confidence booster though, if nothing else.
for the draft complaints. I'm excited for the draft. I'm reading rotoworld and twitter as we speak but 2 Mets threads in a sea of the same stuff over and over again shouldn't be bothering anyone. I'd say roughly 50% of the stuff regarding the draft on here is rehashing what we've all seen and personal proclamations "Jack is a stud!!!!!!"
Obviously he through a flat one to the first batter but he seemed to find it later. He struck out at least two hitters on the slider that I can recall. The change looked great all night.
perception of what Harvey was last year. I think people still remember that electric Harvey from 2013 that would throw 98 and excite the amasses. They see Syndergaard now and expect Harvey to be THAT type of pitcher again.
That wasn't Harvey last year at all. Harvey averaged 95 mph on his fastball in 2015 and looked very much like he did last night. In fact he barely even used his slider in 15. Mostly fastball, curveball, change.
Harvey but he looked a lot better. Velocity was a tick up and his stuff just seemed to have more bite. Location not completely there yet, but last night was a very positive sign.
Nats dropping two in a row to Philly is a nice gift too.
97 on his last pitch was a great sign as was the increase in swing%. The lack of swing and misses was more troubling than the velocity the first few starts.
for the draft complaints. I'm excited for the draft. I'm reading rotoworld and twitter as we speak but 2 Mets threads in a sea of the same stuff over and over again shouldn't be bothering anyone. I'd say roughly 50% of the stuff regarding the draft on here is rehashing what we've all seen and personal proclamations "Jack is a stud!!!!!!"
Two Mets threads is fine. Having a separate minors threads keeps that uncluttered. As long as you have the time to post em, I read the minors thread usually first thing when I get to work.
perception of what Harvey was last year. I think people still remember that electric Harvey from 2013 that would throw 98 and excite the amasses. They see Syndergaard now and expect Harvey to be THAT type of pitcher again.
That wasn't Harvey last year at all. Harvey averaged 95 mph on his fastball in 2015 and looked very much like he did last night. In fact he barely even used his slider in 15. Mostly fastball, curveball, change.
No offense but that's just not true. Coming into last night he had 14 k's with 7 walks over 22.1 innings, last April he had 31 k's with 3 walks over 26.1 innings.
Conforto is a damn good looking player with stats to back it up, even yankee fans are telling me he's looks like the real deal.
Team scored 5 runs without Yo, Granderson, and Tda. They beat the teams they should beat and its just obvious on the field how much better they were than their opposition (Phi, Atl, Reds).
perception of what Harvey was last year. I think people still remember that electric Harvey from 2013 that would throw 98 and excite the amasses. They see Syndergaard now and expect Harvey to be THAT type of pitcher again.
That wasn't Harvey last year at all. Harvey averaged 95 mph on his fastball in 2015 and looked very much like he did last night. In fact he barely even used his slider in 15. Mostly fastball, curveball, change.
No offense but that's just not true. Coming into last night he had 14 k's with 7 walks over 22.1 innings, last April he had 31 k's with 3 walks over 26.1 innings.
What?? Sorry Im lost. How does this correlate with anything we are talking about? You are combining his shitty starts with last night and comparing it to last year??
You just made the claim that people are expecting 2013 Harvey when he wasn't "that guy" last season yet last season he was absolutely dominant to open the season in comparison. Missing bats, not walking batters. You stated people were/are concerned about Harvey because of unrealistic expectations and I'm comparing April to April. Last April Matt Harvey was utterly dominant.
You just made the claim that people are expecting 2013 Harvey when he wasn't "that guy" last season yet last season he was absolutely dominant to open the season in comparison. Missing bats, not walking batters. You stated people were/are concerned about Harvey because of unrealistic expectations and I'm comparing April to April. Last April Matt Harvey was utterly dominant.
Wow. Its amazing how lost you get sometimes. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT LAST NIGHTS GAME. People saying LAST NIGHTS GAME isn't good enough or not really vintage Harvey likely have unrealistic expectations of what he needs to look like is what Im saying. I said his start last night looked a lot like 2015 Harvey. If you extrapolate what he did last night over 5 more starts his numbers would look very similar to his April 15 so thanks for the layup.
So last night is as good as Matt Harvey looked as peak Harvey in 2015? Too bad Harvey and his own manager disagree. Who on here agrees with ZGiants that last nights start was equal Harvey's peak performance last season?
So last night is as good as Matt Harvey looked as peak Harvey in 2015? Too bad Harvey and his own manager disagree. Who on here agrees with ZGiants that last nights start was equal Harvey's peak performance last season?
Matt Harvey April 2015
26.2 innings 22 hits 3 walks 31 k's 0.94 whip 10.5 K/9
Matt Harvey April 2016
28.1 innings 34 hits 9 walks 21 k's 1.52 whip 6.67 k/9
Sometimes I really think you make up arguments because this makes absolutely no sense.
Where are your getting your numbers from? lol. He had 7 Ks last night. You multiply that times 5 and get 21??
Multiplying 5 starts? lol. So Harvey will only pitch against one of the worst teams in baseball every start? What kind of argument is that? Lets play in Coors field and start multiplying numbers. Nobody is even talking about his final line anyway, how he looked which was good, better, not vintage Harvey. You for some reason disagree. I've yet to read a single article or comment from anyone else on any site agreeing "woah he looked every bit as good as he did last year".
I am so utterly sick of Floyd threads. As though anyone posting on here as any idea how to evaluate players like that.
Keep the mets posts coming IMO
Considering there is only "limited" discussion of college football on here throughout the season, and the amount of games, teams etc that even if ALL of these "experts" were avid fans, how could they possibly lock into all of these players with such rabid opinions? lol I checked out a few youtube videos of guys we are in the mix for, and I'm admittedly far from a scout but the Floyd stuff is over the top on here
You're the one that brought Harvey's April stats in 2015 into it. You then combined what he has done in his shitty starts as a comparison this year which makes ZERO sense. I said what he did last night was good. If he did that for all of April (yes that assumes all teams) it would line up very well with last year is all.
wonder if the Mets have given any consideration to actually extending Walker. I wanted to try and extend Walker as soon as the trade was made so this isn't about his 9 homers but the guy is a really solid player and I think Herrera's rough start has to cause them to pause a little in believing he is going to be as good as Murphy/Walker. .219/.305/.260 in LV so far, and is the excuse is the shoulder then it's a major concern since it apparently hurt him all of last year as well.
I really wish we had Walker for 3 years instead of one. I know they can just get another 1st rder out of this but I'd honestly rather keep the player an additional year or two if possible.
I really wish we had Walker for 3 years instead of one. I know they can just get another 1st rder out of this but I'd honestly rather keep the player an additional year or two if possible.
If Wright truly retires, I think he could be considered for third and brought back. Lots of moving parts there though.
Harvey's velocity was back. His control was back. His results were back. I never said he had an elite start or anything like that.
Ugh. Lets please move on.
I think what the masses are saying is that it was nice to see Harvey pitch better, but they like to see a little more and against a little bit better competition. Outside KC, he really hasnt faced a playoff contending team.
I really wish we had Walker for 3 years instead of one. I know they can just get another 1st rder out of this but I'd honestly rather keep the player an additional year or two if possible.
First rounders are great and all but our window is now. Walker may fall off a cliff (he's not THIS) good but if you told me Walker 2017-2018 seasons or Herrera I'm betting on Walker. Odds are a first we get for Walker never plays a single season with deGrom or Harvey if they make it at all. Obviously I'll take the pick over not taking the pick.
Harvey's velocity was back. His control was back. His results were back. I never said he had an elite start or anything like that.
Ugh. Lets please move on.
I think what the masses are saying is that it was nice to see Harvey pitch better, but they like to see a little more and against a little bit better competition. Outside KC, he really hasnt faced a playoff contending team.
I really wish we had Walker for 3 years instead of one. I know they can just get another 1st rder out of this but I'd honestly rather keep the player an additional year or two if possible.
First rounders are great and all but our window is now. Walker may fall off a cliff (he's not THIS) good but if you told me Walker 2017-2018 seasons or Herrera I'm betting on Walker. Odds are a first we get for Walker never plays a single season with deGrom or Harvey if they make it at all. Obviously I'll take the pick over not taking the pick.
Agree. The power will dip quite a bit as the year goes on.. he's obviously not hitting 70+ HR's but I just like the player a lot and think he's a perfect fit for this team right now and the near future. I'd hate to see him be elsewhere next season.
Walker is probably a slightly better player than Daniel Murphy which means he's an above average regular top 8ish in baseball. Picks are great but give me "that" at 2b for the next 3-4 seasons (including this one) over a potential pick.
have to believe Mazzoni has something physical going on but if not, why not? Keep in mind they have Below and Pimentel in the AAA rotation. That said, Mazzoni's numbers with the Padres last season (SSS and all) were horrendous!
If you could get even a slightly better player that makes the routine defensive plays at 2b, that's pretty good. Murphy was certainly a solid starter at this level. It's not like he was some hack that didn't belong like Omar Quintanilla.
We have a very good 2B prospect ready to go who in all likelihood gives you league average production day one with upside for much, much more. Cespedes is opting out. Which OF do we have close ready to replace him? Nimmo? The prudent move would be to take the pick from Walker and offer Cespedes a 4-5 year deal. Assuming he has a huge year, and loves NY, and carries us to the playoffs again, something can probably be worked out between both sides.
A year down the line we need to make a decision about Duda as well. Is Smith ever going to produce like Duda? I doubt it.
Mets can still like Herrera and yet have him represent a clear downgrade from what we have. The two things don't have to be dependent on each other. Neil Walker is an above average regular by almost any stat/metric you want to use. Is Herrera going to be that? Is he going to be that right away? Because if he's not, that's a downgrade for this current team/window. Herrera's horrendous start to 2016 aside, if I told you Herrera will be better than Neil Walker in his second season (so 2018) would you really sign for that at the expense of 2017? I wouldn't. We will see how this plays out, namely Herrera actually hitting. He, Nimmo and Cecchini haven't been bad, they have been pathetically bad. Herrera we now know has had a shoulder issue since last season.
I like the idea of locking up Walker to a deal similar to what Murph's
I don't want to hear about "limited resources" anymore with this team. They wanted the fans in the seats and they have it. Do what is necessary to sustain a contender without cutting corners. Hanging onto Walker doesn't mean the payroll has to be 200M
RE: I like the idea of locking up Walker to a deal similar to what Murph's
Mets can still like Herrera and yet have him represent a clear downgrade from what we have. The two things don't have to be dependent on each other. Neil Walker is an above average regular by almost any stat/metric you want to use. Is Herrera going to be that? Is he going to be that right away? Because if he's not, that's a downgrade for this current team/window. Herrera's horrendous start to 2016 aside, if I told you Herrera will be better than Neil Walker in his second season (so 2018) would you really sign for that at the expense of 2017? I wouldn't. We will see how this plays out, namely Herrera actually hitting. He, Nimmo and Cecchini haven't been bad, they have been pathetically bad. Herrera we now know has had a shoulder issue since last season.
We've done this before and it comes down to dissecting very small samples which I hate but its very likely Herrera gives you close to Walker production immediately for a fraction of the cost. What Herrera has already shown in the majors adds up to a 2-3 fWAR player as the youngest player in the majors.
Chances are 1 of the 2 won't pan out over the next few seasons
I don't want to hear about "limited resources" anymore with this team. They wanted the fans in the seats and they have it. Do what is necessary to sustain a contender without cutting corners. Hanging onto Walker doesn't mean the payroll has to be 200M
Agreed. Unless he really is about to hit 50-60 homers (at which point not keeping him would be truly embarrassing) his price will never be so high that the New York Mets can't afford him. Treat 2016-2019 as our "window".
I don't want to hear about "limited resources" anymore with this team. They wanted the fans in the seats and they have it. Do what is necessary to sustain a contender without cutting corners. Hanging onto Walker doesn't mean the payroll has to be 200M
It actually might though. We are at what 140 million right now? We want to give Cespedes 150 million, Duda an extension, and raises to all of our pitchers through arbitration. There's signing players and then there's being sensible. Breaking Rosario and Herrera into the middle infield considering everything else we got going would benefit the team as a whole much more in the long term anyway IMO.
RE: I like the idea of locking up Walker to a deal similar to what Murph's
Mets can still like Herrera and yet have him represent a clear downgrade from what we have. The two things don't have to be dependent on each other. Neil Walker is an above average regular by almost any stat/metric you want to use. Is Herrera going to be that? Is he going to be that right away? Because if he's not, that's a downgrade for this current team/window. Herrera's horrendous start to 2016 aside, if I told you Herrera will be better than Neil Walker in his second season (so 2018) would you really sign for that at the expense of 2017? I wouldn't. We will see how this plays out, namely Herrera actually hitting. He, Nimmo and Cecchini haven't been bad, they have been pathetically bad. Herrera we now know has had a shoulder issue since last season.
We've done this before and it comes down to dissecting very small samples which I hate but its very likely Herrera gives you close to Walker production immediately for a fraction of the cost. What Herrera has already shown in the majors adds up to a 2-3 fWAR player as the youngest player in the majors.
As a rookie he's a 2-3 fWAR player? How many rookies do that? And if he's not. He's a downgrade. And why should we care about "cost" when it's for a good player? We aren't talking about a 10 year deal or 20 million per season. Why should fans be okay with Walker being allowed to walk for say 15 per because Herrera "might" be able to give you something similar as a rookie if you are lucky.
again we are totally ignoring the fact that Dilson Herrera is currently sporting a 73 wRC+ over his first 17 games of the season and has a sore shoulder dating back to last season. Neil Walker 2012-2015 was the 8th best 2b in all of baseball (fWAR), 3rd in wRC+, 5th in wOBA... I'm not willing to gamble Dilson Herrera comes in and gives you that right away.
Mets can still like Herrera and yet have him represent a clear downgrade from what we have. The two things don't have to be dependent on each other. Neil Walker is an above average regular by almost any stat/metric you want to use. Is Herrera going to be that? Is he going to be that right away? Because if he's not, that's a downgrade for this current team/window. Herrera's horrendous start to 2016 aside, if I told you Herrera will be better than Neil Walker in his second season (so 2018) would you really sign for that at the expense of 2017? I wouldn't. We will see how this plays out, namely Herrera actually hitting. He, Nimmo and Cecchini haven't been bad, they have been pathetically bad. Herrera we now know has had a shoulder issue since last season.
We've done this before and it comes down to dissecting very small samples which I hate but its very likely Herrera gives you close to Walker production immediately for a fraction of the cost. What Herrera has already shown in the majors adds up to a 2-3 fWAR player as the youngest player in the majors.
As a rookie he's a 2-3 fWAR player? How many rookies do that? And if he's not. He's a downgrade. And why should we care about "cost" when it's for a good player? We aren't talking about a 10 year deal or 20 million per season. Why should fans be okay with Walker being allowed to walk for say 15 per because Herrera "might" be able to give you something similar as a rookie if you are lucky.
Yup. IMO he is. Easily. He proved last year he has range and is an above average 2B. His bat so far has proven to be league average-ish. Add it up and you have a 3 WAR player. I knew this would happen too. Walker is a wRC+ 115 hitter. Quick start and everyone falls in love and now that's irreplaceable? Please...
again we are totally ignoring the fact that Dilson Herrera is currently sporting a 73 wRC+ over his first 17 games of the season and has a sore shoulder dating back to last season. Neil Walker 2012-2015 was the 8th best 2b in all of baseball (fWAR), 3rd in wRC+, 5th in wOBA... I'm not willing to gamble Dilson Herrera comes in and gives you that right away.
Haha. Talk to me in a month if Herrera is still hitting 73 in Vegas. No chance...
in prospects ever? Always use stop gaps? Forget Rosario when he's ready. Leave Herrera in AAA forever. Is this what the Cardinals do? The Giants? Is that what Sandy should have done in regards to Conforto?
is a league average hitter? The kid has a very nice upside but his batting line over his first 169 AB's is .215/.308/.383. Now he has above average HR power for 2B but a team like the Mets would be taking a huge gamble expecting him to replicate Walkers performance at 2B.
when you prorated/projected what Kirk would be? It doesn't work like that. If the Mets felt Herrera were a 3 fWAR player right now he'd be at 2b and Walker wouldn't be.
in prospects ever? Always use stop gaps? Forget Rosario when he's ready. Leave Herrera in AAA forever. Is this what the Cardinals do? The Giants? Is that what Sandy should have done in regards to Conforto?
I think it is obvious he never said anything about not breaking in prospects. Dan was just saying that Walker is an excellent 2B who is proven and a perfect fit for a win now team like the Mets.
is a league average hitter? The kid has a very nice upside but his batting line over his first 169 AB's is .215/.308/.383. Now he has above average HR power for 2B but a team like the Mets would be taking a huge gamble expecting him to replicate Walkers performance at 2B.
In 170 atbats, as the youngest player in baseball mind you, he produced a wRC+ of 97.
in prospects ever? Always use stop gaps? Forget Rosario when he's ready. Leave Herrera in AAA forever. Is this what the Cardinals do? The Giants? Is that what Sandy should have done in regards to Conforto?
What? The Giants routinely keep their veterans they trade for. Awful example. They are well known for keeping the older players they have (sometimes at a fault). Which rookie starters. In fact, the Giants didn't even want to go with Panik when he made his debut in 2014 but Arias and Hicks (both ex-Mets) were so bad they had to find other options. Where are examples of the SF Giants letting good regulars to leave in order to slot in rookies? Bizarre example to choose.
when you prorated/projected what Kirk would be? It doesn't work like that. If the Mets felt Herrera were a 3 fWAR player right now he'd be at 2b and Walker wouldn't be.
Kirk? Haha. You are seriously going to compare Kirk to herrera? WTF. Comical.
I had a lengthy discussion about Kirk performing well in a limited sample one year. People disagreed that he didn't perform well during that same "said sample". I extrapolated out his numbers to show that he was in fact performing during that stretch. That was before most of BBI was caught up on WAR, wRC+, ect.
a matter of fact. 2014 Duffy =, hits .332 in the minors with an .884 OPS, they call him up, he doesn't hit. They go with Casey McGehee at 3b over Duffy to open 2015, McGehee fails and then they go with Duffy as the starter because he hits so well in fill-in time. W
You can have a slight downgrade at 2nd if you get a significant upgrade elsewhere
Exactly. Its not that i dont like Walker, but we have very little in the pipeline at OF and 1B and Cespedes and Duda are about to be free agents and Granderson is likely almost done. 2B is the one place we have an absolutely excellent prospect ready to go.
You can have a slight downgrade at 2nd if you get a significant upgrade elsewhere
Where are the Mets going to get a significant upgrade? Barring a retirement of David Wright what position could they even do that realistically? (even then the top FA 3b figures to be Justin Turner).
Keeping in mind Cabrera, Conforto, Granderson, Duda, Wright, both catchers (and the top FA catcher being Matt Wieters) are under contract. Where is this mystery position that we upgrade?
anywhere they need to maintain what they have. Going from a 115 wRC+ to a 100 isn't drastic. Going from Cespedes to Nimmo would destroy us.
So how does letting Walker leave impact Cespedes vs. Nimmo? I'm very confused. You are suggesting a player replacing Cespedes? A player who most certainly would be yet another DOWNGRADE. Neil Walker has literally 0 impact on Cespedes vs. Nimmo, what am I missing?
anywhere they need to maintain what they have. Going from a 115 wRC+ to a 100 isn't drastic. Going from Cespedes to Nimmo would destroy us.
You're right and free agency is horrific. If they lost Cespedes they would need to trade for a bat which is expensive and their farm system is barren unless they were willing to trade Rosario or a starter like Wheeler which I doubt they would be willing to do.
anywhere they need to maintain what they have. Going from a 115 wRC+ to a 100 isn't drastic. Going from Cespedes to Nimmo would destroy us.
So how does letting Walker leave impact Cespedes vs. Nimmo? I'm very confused. You are suggesting a player replacing Cespedes? A player who most certainly would be yet another DOWNGRADE. Neil Walker has literally 0 impact on Cespedes vs. Nimmo, what am I missing?
Zero impact? I'm saying we have to spend money in multiple places in the coming years. Arbitration raises, our pitchers, Cespedes, Duda, Granderson replacement, ect. You really think Walker should be at the top of that list with herrera ready to go? You dont see the correlation? Really??
in mind Bartolo Colon makes 7.25 million and barring a catastrophe will be replaced by a guy making close the minimum next year (Wheeler). Cespedes is due 23.75 million, so either he will take that #, leave (and odds are will be replaced by a much cheaper player) or hypothetically get a small raise from the Mets. There is no scenario where Neil Walker would impact Cespedes.
I can make an almost identical list as you did in regards to Walker with Asdrubal Cabrera showing how he has been one of the top offensive SS in baseball over the last 5 years. Does that mean we extend him when Rosario is ready?
being argumentative but Harvey was certainly better but I wouldn't call him "back". In the right direction though. Not vintage Harvey yet though.
I agree with this. Happy with the progress, but certainly not the Harvey we've become accustomed to seeing. But definitely a step in the right direction, more consistency with his slider, and I think he'll be back. His change looked good last night.
Curtis Granderson is a FA after 2017 season. What kind of team is worried about his replacement... 2 seasons from now? The window is NOW. "Let's let Walker leave vs. paying him 15 million per because in 2018 we need to replace Granderson". That seems like a valid argument? Props to the Wilpons for spending more but lets not act like the Mets are blowing the doors off as it is. Added revenue and they can't both keep Walker and replace Granderson in 2 years? lol
in mind Bartolo Colon makes 7.25 million and barring a catastrophe will be replaced by a guy making close the minimum next year (Wheeler). Cespedes is due 23.75 million, so either he will take that #, leave (and odds are will be replaced by a much cheaper player) or hypothetically get a small raise from the Mets. There is no scenario where Neil Walker would impact Cespedes.
The hikes alone in pitching will make up for Colon. Wheeler also wont be making the minimum in 2016. He's up for arbitration.
Curtis Granderson is a FA after 2017 season. What kind of team is worried about his replacement... 2 seasons from now? The window is NOW. "Let's let Walker leave vs. paying him 15 million per because in 2018 we need to replace Granderson". That seems like a valid argument? Props to the Wilpons for spending more but lets not act like the Mets are blowing the doors off as it is. Added revenue and they can't both keep Walker and replace Granderson in 2 years? lol
I am showing that in a 2 year window alone we have many of our top players potentially leaving. With OF and 1B specifically there isn't much in the pipeline.
I can make an almost identical list as you did in regards to Walker with Asdrubal Cabrera showing how he has been one of the top offensive SS in baseball over the last 5 years. Does that mean we extend him when Rosario is ready?
"top offensive"? Why would we not use total value of a player?
2012-2015 Cabrera 6.9 fWAR good for the #15 best SS in baseball
2012-2015 Walker 11.3 fWAR (so almost TWICE as valuable) 8th best 2b in baseball. Seriously, you make some really odd arguments sometimes.
in mind Bartolo Colon makes 7.25 million and barring a catastrophe will be replaced by a guy making close the minimum next year (Wheeler). Cespedes is due 23.75 million, so either he will take that #, leave (and odds are will be replaced by a much cheaper player) or hypothetically get a small raise from the Mets. There is no scenario where Neil Walker would impact Cespedes.
The hikes alone in pitching will make up for Colon. Wheeler also wont be making the minimum in 2016. He's up for arbitration.
Up for arbitration when he's going to throw max 100 innings. He's going to make proverbial pennies c'mon don't purposely be obtuse.
from league minimum, and many of our other pitchers like Harvey and Familia will be getting steep raises as well. Again, you also dont just budget for one year. If Walker is signed to a 4 year deal that impacts all the raises from Syndergaard, Matz, ect in the following years.
the Mets can't keep their players, they are an embarrassment and your claims about their finances/willingness to spend will prove to be ludicrous. Opening day payrolls
2016 MLB Payrolls [Spotrac]
1) Los Angeles Dodgers $253,639,162
2) New York Yankees $227,854,349
3) Boston Red Sox $199,864,178
4) Detroit Tigers $199,525,500
5) San Francisco Giants $171,464,943
6) Chicago Cubs $167,444,167
7) Los Angeles Angels $166,831,190
8) Texas Rangers $161,246,720
9) St. Louis Cardinals $149,186,000
10) Baltimore Orioles $147,943,713
11) Washington Nationals $146,686,385
12) Seattle Mariners $144,996,858
13) Toronto Blue Jays $140,582,027
14) Kansas City Royals $137,606,125
15) New York Mets $130,612,115
A normal team is able to keep Neil Walker and replace a guy like Granderson... in 2 years. We all know they almost certainly won't be able to keep all of the SP but Neil Walker and his 15 million won't be the reason why. Matt Harvey and his 200+ million deal will be why.
I can make an almost identical list as you did in regards to Walker with Asdrubal Cabrera showing how he has been one of the top offensive SS in baseball over the last 5 years. Does that mean we extend him when Rosario is ready?
"top offensive"? Why would we not use total value of a player?
2012-2015 Cabrera 6.9 fWAR good for the #15 best SS in baseball
2012-2015 Walker 11.3 fWAR (so almost TWICE as valuable) 8th best 2b in baseball. Seriously, you make some really odd arguments sometimes.
You flat out listed out wRC+ and woBA. Jesus. Yes you included WAR too. Congratulations.
I can make an almost identical list as you did in regards to Walker with Asdrubal Cabrera showing how he has been one of the top offensive SS in baseball over the last 5 years. Does that mean we extend him when Rosario is ready?
"top offensive"? Why would we not use total value of a player?
2012-2015 Cabrera 6.9 fWAR good for the #15 best SS in baseball
2012-2015 Walker 11.3 fWAR (so almost TWICE as valuable) 8th best 2b in baseball. Seriously, you make some really odd arguments sometimes.
You flat out listed out wRC+ and woBA. Jesus. Yes you included WAR too. Congratulations.
Yes because when deciding players worth moving on from and ones worth keeping I think most would agree grading/ranking them OVERALL actually makes more sense than picking and choosing no?
Signing Cespedes, Walker, Duda, replacing Granderson with the same level player wont impact everything else in the coming years??? We would have a 400 million dollar payroll if we kept everyone we have now forever.
Signing Cespedes, Walker, Duda, replacing Granderson with the same level player wont impact everything else in the coming years??? We would have a 400 million dollar payroll if we kept everyone we have now forever.
Neil Walker's salary will not be the reason the Mets can't keep ANY player. A normal big budget team is able to expand the budget/move salaries around. The Cubs had no plans to bring back Fowler and suddenly had 8 million to burn and brought him back. Wheeler, Matz, Conforto, Syndergaard will be nowhere near "expensive" any time Walker is so it's a false argument. Matz/Conforto/Thor aren't even arbitration eligible until after the 2019 seasons and for comparisons sake Matt Harvey is making 4.325 million in year one of arbitration. I'm going to worry about Conforto/Matz's arbitration #'s year 1... after 2019? C'mon.
What in the world does the value of the Mets rotation have to do with keeping Neil Walker? Matz and Syndergaard won't even be FA until post-Neil Walker even likely being RETIRED let alone still making big money.
What in the world does the value of the Mets rotation have to do with keeping Neil Walker? Matz and Syndergaard won't even be FA until post-Neil Walker even likely being RETIRED let alone still making big money.
You are seriously the worst. lol. You seriously think keeping and replacing every single player we have(Granderson) wont impact our payroll by a significant amount over the next 5 years ?? (Walker 4 year deal assume) WOW.
The day we actually argue about anything intelligent will be its first. Always over nitpicky BS. Our overall are views are mostly aligned which is the sad part.
Flores is now 2-24. Sort of sucks he is out of options because he may prove to be a guy who needs consistent ab's to play well. He may be valuable if Wright goes down but he's been downright awful so far. Perfect example of being careful with options.
Walker was intended as a stop gap. Buys time for the team to see if Herrera will be ready next year vs forcing him in this year. Same with the SS convertible prospects to 2B.
Best case scenario is Herrera forces the issue, and Walker makes it a tough decision due to a great year (increasing odds of a draft pick as comp). Worst case scenario is Walker struggles in NY and Herrera isn't ready.
This was a move 100% about 2016 team. But with an eye equally on 2017 plus. Literally the perfect move. It's a very repeatable move, if necessary. Next year they will make a similar decision, all about 2017 but with an eye on these following year. "Payroll and roster flexibility". It's here...
TBH we have a ton of options at second. Herrera, Flores, any of the SS prospects. And 2Bs are gettable in trade unlike the premium positions.
I'll take the same position I took with Cespedes. You dont HAVE to resign Walker. I'll be furious if we dont resign him just because there isnt money. But that is seeming like less and less of a concern. If they just think money is better deployed elsewhere, I say cool. We will not be without talented options at 2B that dont require potentially ruinous commitments.
D.J. Short @djshort 4m4 minutes ago
The Braves have a .579 OPS as a team so far this season. Cubs pitchers have a .591 OPS.
Yeah they are pathetic. Help is on the way though Albies and Swanson are raking in the minors. Albies is hitting .351/.412/.494 in AA despite being the youngest player in the league by more than a full year.
D.J. Short @djshort 4m4 minutes ago
The Braves have a .579 OPS as a team so far this season. Cubs pitchers have a .591 OPS.
Yeah they are pathetic. Help is on the way though Albies and Swanson are raking in the minors. Albies is hitting .351/.412/.494 in AA despite being the youngest player in the league by more than a full year.
People are comparing it to the Sixers but I disagree. Baseball allows you to load up on a bunch of "lottery tickets" at the same time and with no salary cap you can buy yourself players pretty easily. The Braves over the next 5 years scare me more than the Marlins or Nats to be honest with you (obviously for today the Nats are my biggest concern).
Walker was intended as a stop gap. Buys time for the team to see if Herrera will be ready next year vs forcing him in this year. Same with the SS convertible prospects to 2B.
Best case scenario is Herrera forces the issue, and Walker makes it a tough decision due to a great year (increasing odds of a draft pick as comp). Worst case scenario is Walker struggles in NY and Herrera isn't ready.
This was a move 100% about 2016 team. But with an eye equally on 2017 plus. Literally the perfect move. It's a very repeatable move, if necessary. Next year they will make a similar decision, all about 2017 but with an eye on these following year. "Payroll and roster flexibility". It's here...
So what about the scenario where Walker thrives and has a really good year here and Dilson doesn't quite progress as hoped?
TBH we have a ton of options at second. Herrera, Flores, any of the SS prospects. And 2Bs are gettable in trade unlike the premium positions.
I'll take the same position I took with Cespedes. You dont HAVE to resign Walker. I'll be furious if we dont resign him just because there isnt money. But that is seeming like less and less of a concern. If they just think money is better deployed elsewhere, I say cool. We will not be without talented options at 2B that dont require potentially ruinous commitments.
Walker was intended as a stop gap. Buys time for the team to see if Herrera will be ready next year vs forcing him in this year. Same with the SS convertible prospects to 2B.
Best case scenario is Herrera forces the issue, and Walker makes it a tough decision due to a great year (increasing odds of a draft pick as comp). Worst case scenario is Walker struggles in NY and Herrera isn't ready.
This was a move 100% about 2016 team. But with an eye equally on 2017 plus. Literally the perfect move. It's a very repeatable move, if necessary. Next year they will make a similar decision, all about 2017 but with an eye on these following year. "Payroll and roster flexibility". It's here...
So what about the scenario where Walker thrives and has a really good year here and Dilson doesn't quite progress as hoped?
What does Herrera have to do though to show he's ready is my beef. It will never be enough. He's already owned AA, then owned AAA (sore shoulder slow couple weeks this year notwithstanding) and it wasn't enough. He already held his own at the major league level and it wasn't enough. If he hits .500 in AAA with 99 HR is that enough?? People will still just say isn't "proven". Its the same thing every year.
D.J. Short @djshort 4m4 minutes ago
The Braves have a .579 OPS as a team so far this season. Cubs pitchers have a .591 OPS.
Yeah they are pathetic. Help is on the way though Albies and Swanson are raking in the minors. Albies is hitting .351/.412/.494 in AA despite being the youngest player in the league by more than a full year.
People are comparing it to the Sixers but I disagree. Baseball allows you to load up on a bunch of "lottery tickets" at the same time and with no salary cap you can buy yourself players pretty easily. The Braves over the next 5 years scare me more than the Marlins or Nats to be honest with you (obviously for today the Nats are my biggest concern).
You are right I think the Braves are going to be the class on the NFC East in 3-4 years. I know that prospects don't always work out but the Braves are loaded with so many pitching prospects that even if only 40% of them work out they are set. Also they have the #3 overall pick in this years draft, likely the #1 overall pick in next years draft and are rumored to have a deal with the top IFA in years in Kevin Maitan. What they lack is power bats but their future infield looks incredible.
Considering Herrera was still very young and could have used a little more time in AAA and it increases your chances of success in 2016 with a proven stop-gap and you hope Herrera forces the issue. I am operating on the assumption that Herrera will have a very solid year in Vegas so then what?
Best move would be to recoup the pick.
OR if Wright is truly retiring (not sure about that) consider him as a #B option.
You mean like how it looks today? Lol
Then the front office pats itself on the back for saving the 2016 with the Walker trade.
LOL, yes. I mean.. if things continue to go this way, how do they approach it down the road? Do they say "well, we have a known quality here and he helps keep our window open, let's make a push to extend him" ? ... do they look for another established player (I don't know who will be available or who they could acquire.. haven't looked at all) to be another stop gap or do they just put Herrera out there and hope for the best?
D.J. Short @djshort 4m4 minutes ago
The Braves have a .579 OPS as a team so far this season. Cubs pitchers have a .591 OPS.
Yeah they are pathetic. Help is on the way though Albies and Swanson are raking in the minors. Albies is hitting .351/.412/.494 in AA despite being the youngest player in the league by more than a full year.
People are comparing it to the Sixers but I disagree. Baseball allows you to load up on a bunch of "lottery tickets" at the same time and with no salary cap you can buy yourself players pretty easily. The Braves over the next 5 years scare me more than the Marlins or Nats to be honest with you (obviously for today the Nats are my biggest concern).
You are right I think the Braves are going to be the class on the NFC East in 3-4 years. I know that prospects don't always work out but the Braves are loaded with so many pitching prospects that even if only 40% of them work out they are set. Also they have the #3 overall pick in this years draft, likely the #1 overall pick in next years draft and are rumored to have a deal with the top IFA in years in Kevin Maitan. What they lack is power bats but their future infield looks incredible.
You are discounting what is going on in Philly....
RE: RE: RE: Repeating the obvious from the offseason
Walker was intended as a stop gap. Buys time for the team to see if Herrera will be ready next year vs forcing him in this year. Same with the SS convertible prospects to 2B.
Best case scenario is Herrera forces the issue, and Walker makes it a tough decision due to a great year (increasing odds of a draft pick as comp). Worst case scenario is Walker struggles in NY and Herrera isn't ready.
This was a move 100% about 2016 team. But with an eye equally on 2017 plus. Literally the perfect move. It's a very repeatable move, if necessary. Next year they will make a similar decision, all about 2017 but with an eye on these following year. "Payroll and roster flexibility". It's here...
So what about the scenario where Walker thrives and has a really good year here and Dilson doesn't quite progress as hoped?
What does Herrera have to do though to show he's ready is my beef. It will never be enough. He's already owned AA, then owned AAA (sore shoulder slow couple weeks this year notwithstanding) and it wasn't enough. He already held his own at the major league level and it wasn't enough. If he hits .500 in AAA with 99 HR is that enough?? People will still just say isn't "proven". Its the same thing every year.
I don't think that's true. If he posts a really solid year in Vegas and looks like there's nothing left for him to do there, that's fine. He's struggled a bit out of the gates though.. it's not like it's a forgone conclusion he's going to wind up having a great year. He could.. but who knows. What if he doesn't?
It's not the stats, but you just have to trust the front office with knowing when someone is ready or not. Past few years, who has been called up prematurely? Yet how many fan favorites haven't been called up? (Smoker, Alvarez, etc) to fill a hole.
If he's ready, you pray you get a pick for Walker. But the rest of the roster will certainly have much less question marks on it (Wrgiht, TDA, Legares, Duda).
You mean like how it looks today? Lol
Then the front office pats itself on the back for saving the 2016 with the Walker trade.
LOL, yes. I mean.. if things continue to go this way, how do they approach it down the road? Do they say "well, we have a known quality here and he helps keep our window open, let's make a push to extend him" ? ... do they look for another established player (I don't know who will be available or who they could acquire.. haven't looked at all) to be another stop gap or do they just put Herrera out there and hope for the best?
Missed this but part of my previous post would answer it. If Herrera is starting, they have a very good plan B in place (vet, positional flexibility, other ready prospect etc) they also will have less uncertainty on the roster if he is starting, softening the blow if he isn't ready and his success is less vital.
In a perfect world it works. And your future is brighter. More payroll, and adding another top prospect with a pick. Not hurting the current while pumping up the window.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Repeating the obvious from the offseason
Walker was intended as a stop gap. Buys time for the team to see if Herrera will be ready next year vs forcing him in this year. Same with the SS convertible prospects to 2B.
Best case scenario is Herrera forces the issue, and Walker makes it a tough decision due to a great year (increasing odds of a draft pick as comp). Worst case scenario is Walker struggles in NY and Herrera isn't ready.
This was a move 100% about 2016 team. But with an eye equally on 2017 plus. Literally the perfect move. It's a very repeatable move, if necessary. Next year they will make a similar decision, all about 2017 but with an eye on these following year. "Payroll and roster flexibility". It's here...
So what about the scenario where Walker thrives and has a really good year here and Dilson doesn't quite progress as hoped?
What does Herrera have to do though to show he's ready is my beef. It will never be enough. He's already owned AA, then owned AAA (sore shoulder slow couple weeks this year notwithstanding) and it wasn't enough. He already held his own at the major league level and it wasn't enough. If he hits .500 in AAA with 99 HR is that enough?? People will still just say isn't "proven". Its the same thing every year.
I don't think that's true. If he posts a really solid year in Vegas and looks like there's nothing left for him to do there, that's fine. He's struggled a bit out of the gates though.. it's not like it's a forgone conclusion he's going to wind up having a great year. He could.. but who knows. What if he doesn't?
Ok well that's a completely different argument. Herrera has owned every level for years now and put up video games numbers in the minors. I didn't know people were alarmed and upset over Herrera's cold first two weeks to the season. If they think that's what Herrera will do all year? Then I totally get needing or wanting to sign Walker. I just didn't even know that thought existed. I assume Herrera will go right back to mashing in Vegas any day now.
I hope we all assume he is as good as gone next year?
He's opting out. I know that. Today the Mets likely let him walk. I was envisioning a perfect world where things might change between now and then (like last year) and Cespedes has a huge year, plays CF better than expected possibly, carries the Mets to the postseason, he's wants to come back to the Mets(at a cost of course) and there might be another possible reunion. I know that likely isn't the view now but I could see things changing.
that's a game changer. All I've heard is that they are extremely high on him though.
Also I like Walker a lot. Really happy we have him. I just view it as every season will have its story. Last year it was Murphy. Hopefully this year Walker is a big part of this group. Next year who knows. Its all good though. The Mets have done nothing but make the correct decisions in regards to just about everything.
Anyone think that we would be in a position to trade Grandy
in the offseason, to make room for Ces as a RF (notwithstanding his thoughts about that position)? Grandy will be owed 15 million for his final season. Not a bad bet for a team that needs a hitter and doesnt want to delve into the ultra expensive UFA market.
RE: Anyone think that we would be in a position to trade Grandy
in the offseason, to make room for Ces as a RF (notwithstanding his thoughts about that position)? Grandy will be owed 15 million for his final season. Not a bad bet for a team that needs a hitter and doesnt want to delve into the ultra expensive UFA market.
I don't think it will be worth it. I doubt they would get fair value for a 36 year old OF. Also if Cespedes and Walker leave via free agency the Mets will need to hope that Granderson doesn't fall apart next season too which at his age is somewhat likely.
Wally has Nimmo, Cecchini, Herrera, Reynolds, TJ Rivera Montero, Goeddel, Gilmartin, Lugo. Sewald, Smoker, Ynoa etc... and an 8-10 last place club in LV
RE: RE: Anyone think that we would be in a position to trade Grandy
in the offseason, to make room for Ces as a RF (notwithstanding his thoughts about that position)? Grandy will be owed 15 million for his final season. Not a bad bet for a team that needs a hitter and doesnt want to delve into the ultra expensive UFA market.
I don't think it will be worth it. I doubt they would get fair value for a 36 year old OF. Also if Cespedes and Walker leave via free agency the Mets will need to hope that Granderson doesn't fall apart next season too which at his age is somewhat likely.
Well the point of a Grandy trade is to open a corner OF slot to resign Ces. You dont trade Grandy without Ces signing on. And I dont know that they'd sign both and risk sitting one or playing one in CF next year.
I just think assuming we actually could or would want
to sign Cespedes next year you just let Granderson's contract play out. If The Mets really want Cespedes I assume he played 2016 at a very high level and handled himself decently in CF. Just keep it the same for one more year and say farewell to Grandy at the end of his contract. Then in a year move Cespedes or Conforto to RF. Keep in mind Cespedes will be 32 then. Conforto might actually be the better option in RF. Who knows. Then I guess work on a CF upgrade.
It's official. Mets franchise has turned it around :)
Instead of the breaks going against them, they finally seem to be getting some. Acquiring Gomez and then him tanking is such a "Met thing to do" until now.
Harvey has had problems holding his velocity after 75 or so pitches this year. Velo down to 92-93 so far in 5th at 80 p mark
2 retweets 3 likes
Reply Retweet 2
Like 3
More
Timothy Finnegan @TimFinn521 13h13 hours ago
Harvey still not his vintage self but stuff looks way better tonight...encouraging progress
Michael Fulmer MLB debut for Detroit tomorrow night
I was VERY happy.
How many "I want Floyd!" "I hate Floyd!" threads can you read?
I was VERY happy.
You are of course allowed to have your own opinion but almost every single article I have read this morning seems to align with my feelings including from Collins
It wasn't great, but it was better, and that's what he and the team want to see right now.
Indeed, for Harvey, six innings and two earned runs is progress.
"(Pitching coach) Dan [Warthen] I have been working so hard the past couple weeks to figure out what's been going on, and we're moving in the right direction, so it's definitely a big positive tonight and a huge series for us," Harvey said.
Maybe even more important for Harvey, something he can take into his next start, is that on Wednesday in the sixth inning, when hit pitch count was nearing 100, he was able to light up the radar gun to 97 miles per hour and strike out the last hitter. It was the hardest his fastball has been all year on a consistent basis.
"I think the ball came out of his hand much better [Wednesday], much cleaner," manager Terry Collins said. "This is the best he's thrown all year. Again, we all expect great things out of these young guys because they're so good, and so talented, but we have to have a little bit of patience. He's making strides."
Nats dropping two in a row to Philly is a nice gift too.
Certainly looked much better just wasn't "he's 100% looking like A+ Harvey" yet. Hopefully that's on the way.
Nats dropping two in a row to Philly is a nice gift too.
97 on his last pitch was a great sign as was the increase in swing%. The lack of swing and misses was more troubling than the velocity the first few starts.
He will build on it and keep getting better.
between 8-10 normally with 10 being extremely rare, and 8 and 9 most of the time. The first four games he graded out around a 3. Truly awful. He was about back to a 7 or even 8 last night.
Maybe that's bad terminology but the way I see it.
His change was good as well.
Breaking stuff was not so good - I don't think he has a bit of command on his slider at all yet.
But, given the worries about his velocity, I think yesterday was very encouraging. Expecting him to build on it.
I don't think it's a wild statement at all (especially given what others are saying here).
That wasn't Harvey last year at all. Harvey averaged 95 mph on his fastball in 2015 and looked very much like he did last night. In fact he barely even used his slider in 15. Mostly fastball, curveball, change.
Quote:
Harvey but he looked a lot better. Velocity was a tick up and his stuff just seemed to have more bite. Location not completely there yet, but last night was a very positive sign.
Nats dropping two in a row to Philly is a nice gift too.
97 on his last pitch was a great sign as was the increase in swing%. The lack of swing and misses was more troubling than the velocity the first few starts.
+1
Two Mets threads is fine. Having a separate minors threads keeps that uncluttered. As long as you have the time to post em, I read the minors thread usually first thing when I get to work.
+1000
That wasn't Harvey last year at all. Harvey averaged 95 mph on his fastball in 2015 and looked very much like he did last night. In fact he barely even used his slider in 15. Mostly fastball, curveball, change.
No offense but that's just not true. Coming into last night he had 14 k's with 7 walks over 22.1 innings, last April he had 31 k's with 3 walks over 26.1 innings.
Team scored 5 runs without Yo, Granderson, and Tda. They beat the teams they should beat and its just obvious on the field how much better they were than their opposition (Phi, Atl, Reds).
Quote:
perception of what Harvey was last year. I think people still remember that electric Harvey from 2013 that would throw 98 and excite the amasses. They see Syndergaard now and expect Harvey to be THAT type of pitcher again.
That wasn't Harvey last year at all. Harvey averaged 95 mph on his fastball in 2015 and looked very much like he did last night. In fact he barely even used his slider in 15. Mostly fastball, curveball, change.
No offense but that's just not true. Coming into last night he had 14 k's with 7 walks over 22.1 innings, last April he had 31 k's with 3 walks over 26.1 innings.
What?? Sorry Im lost. How does this correlate with anything we are talking about? You are combining his shitty starts with last night and comparing it to last year??
Matt Harvey April 2015
26.2 innings 22 hits 3 walks 31 k's 0.94 whip 10.5 K/9
Matt Harvey April 2016
28.1 innings 34 hits 9 walks 21 k's 1.52 whip 6.67 k/9
Sometimes I really think you make up arguments because this makes absolutely no sense.
Wow. Its amazing how lost you get sometimes. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT LAST NIGHTS GAME. People saying LAST NIGHTS GAME isn't good enough or not really vintage Harvey likely have unrealistic expectations of what he needs to look like is what Im saying. I said his start last night looked a lot like 2015 Harvey. If you extrapolate what he did last night over 5 more starts his numbers would look very similar to his April 15 so thanks for the layup.
Matt Harvey April 2015
26.2 innings 22 hits 3 walks 31 k's 0.94 whip 10.5 K/9
Matt Harvey April 2016
28.1 innings 34 hits 9 walks 21 k's 1.52 whip 6.67 k/9
Sometimes I really think you make up arguments because this makes absolutely no sense.
Where are your getting your numbers from? lol. He had 7 Ks last night. You multiply that times 5 and get 21??
Keep the mets posts coming IMO
That wasn't the argument jackass.
Quote:
it wouldn't.
Matt Harvey April 2015
26.2 innings 22 hits 3 walks 31 k's 0.94 whip 10.5 K/9
Matt Harvey April 2016
28.1 innings 34 hits 9 walks 21 k's 1.52 whip 6.67 k/9
Sometimes I really think you make up arguments because this makes absolutely no sense.
Where are your getting your numbers from? lol. He had 7 Ks last night. You multiply that times 5 and get 21??
Multiplying 5 starts? lol. So Harvey will only pitch against one of the worst teams in baseball every start? What kind of argument is that? Lets play in Coors field and start multiplying numbers. Nobody is even talking about his final line anyway, how he looked which was good, better, not vintage Harvey. You for some reason disagree. I've yet to read a single article or comment from anyone else on any site agreeing "woah he looked every bit as good as he did last year".
Keep the mets posts coming IMO
Considering there is only "limited" discussion of college football on here throughout the season, and the amount of games, teams etc that even if ALL of these "experts" were avid fans, how could they possibly lock into all of these players with such rabid opinions? lol I checked out a few youtube videos of guys we are in the mix for, and I'm admittedly far from a scout but the Floyd stuff is over the top on here
Harvey's velocity was back. His control was back. His results were back. I never said he had an elite start or anything like that.
Ugh. Lets please move on.
If Wright truly retires, I think he could be considered for third and brought back. Lots of moving parts there though.
Harvey's velocity was back. His control was back. His results were back. I never said he had an elite start or anything like that.
Ugh. Lets please move on.
I think what the masses are saying is that it was nice to see Harvey pitch better, but they like to see a little more and against a little bit better competition. Outside KC, he really hasnt faced a playoff contending team.
First rounders are great and all but our window is now. Walker may fall off a cliff (he's not THIS) good but if you told me Walker 2017-2018 seasons or Herrera I'm betting on Walker. Odds are a first we get for Walker never plays a single season with deGrom or Harvey if they make it at all. Obviously I'll take the pick over not taking the pick.
Quote:
and argument in the first place.
Harvey's velocity was back. His control was back. His results were back. I never said he had an elite start or anything like that.
Ugh. Lets please move on.
I think what the masses are saying is that it was nice to see Harvey pitch better, but they like to see a little more and against a little bit better competition. Outside KC, he really hasnt faced a playoff contending team.
So would I. Who said I wasn't saying that?
Quote:
I really wish we had Walker for 3 years instead of one. I know they can just get another 1st rder out of this but I'd honestly rather keep the player an additional year or two if possible.
First rounders are great and all but our window is now. Walker may fall off a cliff (he's not THIS) good but if you told me Walker 2017-2018 seasons or Herrera I'm betting on Walker. Odds are a first we get for Walker never plays a single season with deGrom or Harvey if they make it at all. Obviously I'll take the pick over not taking the pick.
Agree. The power will dip quite a bit as the year goes on.. he's obviously not hitting 70+ HR's but I just like the player a lot and think he's a perfect fit for this team right now and the near future. I'd hate to see him be elsewhere next season.
Michael Fulmer MLB debut for Detroit tomorrow night
kick the tires?
Is he still the heir apparent?
A year down the line we need to make a decision about Duda as well. Is Smith ever going to produce like Duda? I doubt it.
Id rather use my resources elsewhere personally.
Is he still the heir apparent?
The Mets are still very high on Herrera. Murphy mentioned it himself as he was shown the door.
I bet Walker could play a solid 3B and if Herrera is ready next year he can slide in into 2B.
I bet Walker could play a solid 3B and if Herrera is ready next year he can slide in into 2B.
Excellent point.
We've done this before and it comes down to dissecting very small samples which I hate but its very likely Herrera gives you close to Walker production immediately for a fraction of the cost. What Herrera has already shown in the majors adds up to a 2-3 fWAR player as the youngest player in the majors.
Agreed. Unless he really is about to hit 50-60 homers (at which point not keeping him would be truly embarrassing) his price will never be so high that the New York Mets can't afford him. Treat 2016-2019 as our "window".
It actually might though. We are at what 140 million right now? We want to give Cespedes 150 million, Duda an extension, and raises to all of our pitchers through arbitration. There's signing players and then there's being sensible. Breaking Rosario and Herrera into the middle infield considering everything else we got going would benefit the team as a whole much more in the long term anyway IMO.
I bet Walker could play a solid 3B and if Herrera is ready next year he can slide in into 2B.
If Wright retires Im all for it. Walker can play 3B. If Wright's money is off the books, Im fine with that.
Quote:
Mets can still like Herrera and yet have him represent a clear downgrade from what we have. The two things don't have to be dependent on each other. Neil Walker is an above average regular by almost any stat/metric you want to use. Is Herrera going to be that? Is he going to be that right away? Because if he's not, that's a downgrade for this current team/window. Herrera's horrendous start to 2016 aside, if I told you Herrera will be better than Neil Walker in his second season (so 2018) would you really sign for that at the expense of 2017? I wouldn't. We will see how this plays out, namely Herrera actually hitting. He, Nimmo and Cecchini haven't been bad, they have been pathetically bad. Herrera we now know has had a shoulder issue since last season.
We've done this before and it comes down to dissecting very small samples which I hate but its very likely Herrera gives you close to Walker production immediately for a fraction of the cost. What Herrera has already shown in the majors adds up to a 2-3 fWAR player as the youngest player in the majors.
As a rookie he's a 2-3 fWAR player? How many rookies do that? And if he's not. He's a downgrade. And why should we care about "cost" when it's for a good player? We aren't talking about a 10 year deal or 20 million per season. Why should fans be okay with Walker being allowed to walk for say 15 per because Herrera "might" be able to give you something similar as a rookie if you are lucky.
Quote:
In comment 12926888 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Mets can still like Herrera and yet have him represent a clear downgrade from what we have. The two things don't have to be dependent on each other. Neil Walker is an above average regular by almost any stat/metric you want to use. Is Herrera going to be that? Is he going to be that right away? Because if he's not, that's a downgrade for this current team/window. Herrera's horrendous start to 2016 aside, if I told you Herrera will be better than Neil Walker in his second season (so 2018) would you really sign for that at the expense of 2017? I wouldn't. We will see how this plays out, namely Herrera actually hitting. He, Nimmo and Cecchini haven't been bad, they have been pathetically bad. Herrera we now know has had a shoulder issue since last season.
We've done this before and it comes down to dissecting very small samples which I hate but its very likely Herrera gives you close to Walker production immediately for a fraction of the cost. What Herrera has already shown in the majors adds up to a 2-3 fWAR player as the youngest player in the majors.
As a rookie he's a 2-3 fWAR player? How many rookies do that? And if he's not. He's a downgrade. And why should we care about "cost" when it's for a good player? We aren't talking about a 10 year deal or 20 million per season. Why should fans be okay with Walker being allowed to walk for say 15 per because Herrera "might" be able to give you something similar as a rookie if you are lucky.
Yup. IMO he is. Easily. He proved last year he has range and is an above average 2B. His bat so far has proven to be league average-ish. Add it up and you have a 3 WAR player. I knew this would happen too. Walker is a wRC+ 115 hitter. Quick start and everyone falls in love and now that's irreplaceable? Please...
Haha. Talk to me in a month if Herrera is still hitting 73 in Vegas. No chance...
Cano
Zobrist
Kinsler
Kipnis
Kendrick
Utley
Walker
Altuve
Dozier
wRC+
Cano
Zobrist
Walker
Rendon
wOBA
Cano
Zobrist
Pedroia
Rendon
Walker
Altuve
Neil Walker is a very, very solid player. He's not where you cut corners and "save" money.
I think it is obvious he never said anything about not breaking in prospects. Dan was just saying that Walker is an excellent 2B who is proven and a perfect fit for a win now team like the Mets.
In 170 atbats, as the youngest player in baseball mind you, he produced a wRC+ of 97.
What? The Giants routinely keep their veterans they trade for. Awful example. They are well known for keeping the older players they have (sometimes at a fault). Which rookie starters. In fact, the Giants didn't even want to go with Panik when he made his debut in 2014 but Arias and Hicks (both ex-Mets) were so bad they had to find other options. Where are examples of the SF Giants letting good regulars to leave in order to slot in rookies? Bizarre example to choose.
Kirk? Haha. You are seriously going to compare Kirk to herrera? WTF. Comical.
You can have a slight downgrade at 2nd if you get a significant upgrade elsewhere
You can have a slight downgrade at 2nd if you get a significant upgrade elsewhere
Exactly. Its not that i dont like Walker, but we have very little in the pipeline at OF and 1B and Cespedes and Duda are about to be free agents and Granderson is likely almost done. 2B is the one place we have an absolutely excellent prospect ready to go.
You can have a slight downgrade at 2nd if you get a significant upgrade elsewhere
Where are the Mets going to get a significant upgrade? Barring a retirement of David Wright what position could they even do that realistically? (even then the top FA 3b figures to be Justin Turner).
Keeping in mind Cabrera, Conforto, Granderson, Duda, Wright, both catchers (and the top FA catcher being Matt Wieters) are under contract. Where is this mystery position that we upgrade?
So how does letting Walker leave impact Cespedes vs. Nimmo? I'm very confused. You are suggesting a player replacing Cespedes? A player who most certainly would be yet another DOWNGRADE. Neil Walker has literally 0 impact on Cespedes vs. Nimmo, what am I missing?
You're right and free agency is horrific. If they lost Cespedes they would need to trade for a bat which is expensive and their farm system is barren unless they were willing to trade Rosario or a starter like Wheeler which I doubt they would be willing to do.
Quote:
anywhere they need to maintain what they have. Going from a 115 wRC+ to a 100 isn't drastic. Going from Cespedes to Nimmo would destroy us.
So how does letting Walker leave impact Cespedes vs. Nimmo? I'm very confused. You are suggesting a player replacing Cespedes? A player who most certainly would be yet another DOWNGRADE. Neil Walker has literally 0 impact on Cespedes vs. Nimmo, what am I missing?
Zero impact? I'm saying we have to spend money in multiple places in the coming years. Arbitration raises, our pitchers, Cespedes, Duda, Granderson replacement, ect. You really think Walker should be at the top of that list with herrera ready to go? You dont see the correlation? Really??
I agree with this. Happy with the progress, but certainly not the Harvey we've become accustomed to seeing. But definitely a step in the right direction, more consistency with his slider, and I think he'll be back. His change looked good last night.
The hikes alone in pitching will make up for Colon. Wheeler also wont be making the minimum in 2016. He's up for arbitration.
I am showing that in a 2 year window alone we have many of our top players potentially leaving. With OF and 1B specifically there isn't much in the pipeline.
"top offensive"? Why would we not use total value of a player?
2012-2015 Cabrera 6.9 fWAR good for the #15 best SS in baseball
2012-2015 Walker 11.3 fWAR (so almost TWICE as valuable) 8th best 2b in baseball. Seriously, you make some really odd arguments sometimes.
Quote:
in mind Bartolo Colon makes 7.25 million and barring a catastrophe will be replaced by a guy making close the minimum next year (Wheeler). Cespedes is due 23.75 million, so either he will take that #, leave (and odds are will be replaced by a much cheaper player) or hypothetically get a small raise from the Mets. There is no scenario where Neil Walker would impact Cespedes.
The hikes alone in pitching will make up for Colon. Wheeler also wont be making the minimum in 2016. He's up for arbitration.
Up for arbitration when he's going to throw max 100 innings. He's going to make proverbial pennies c'mon don't purposely be obtuse.
2016 MLB Payrolls [Spotrac]
1) Los Angeles Dodgers $253,639,162
2) New York Yankees $227,854,349
3) Boston Red Sox $199,864,178
4) Detroit Tigers $199,525,500
5) San Francisco Giants $171,464,943
6) Chicago Cubs $167,444,167
7) Los Angeles Angels $166,831,190
8) Texas Rangers $161,246,720
9) St. Louis Cardinals $149,186,000
10) Baltimore Orioles $147,943,713
11) Washington Nationals $146,686,385
12) Seattle Mariners $144,996,858
13) Toronto Blue Jays $140,582,027
14) Kansas City Royals $137,606,125
15) New York Mets $130,612,115
A normal team is able to keep Neil Walker and replace a guy like Granderson... in 2 years. We all know they almost certainly won't be able to keep all of the SP but Neil Walker and his 15 million won't be the reason why. Matt Harvey and his 200+ million deal will be why.
Quote:
I can make an almost identical list as you did in regards to Walker with Asdrubal Cabrera showing how he has been one of the top offensive SS in baseball over the last 5 years. Does that mean we extend him when Rosario is ready?
"top offensive"? Why would we not use total value of a player?
2012-2015 Cabrera 6.9 fWAR good for the #15 best SS in baseball
2012-2015 Walker 11.3 fWAR (so almost TWICE as valuable) 8th best 2b in baseball. Seriously, you make some really odd arguments sometimes.
You flat out listed out wRC+ and woBA. Jesus. Yes you included WAR too. Congratulations.
Quote:
In comment 12927019 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
I can make an almost identical list as you did in regards to Walker with Asdrubal Cabrera showing how he has been one of the top offensive SS in baseball over the last 5 years. Does that mean we extend him when Rosario is ready?
"top offensive"? Why would we not use total value of a player?
2012-2015 Cabrera 6.9 fWAR good for the #15 best SS in baseball
2012-2015 Walker 11.3 fWAR (so almost TWICE as valuable) 8th best 2b in baseball. Seriously, you make some really odd arguments sometimes.
You flat out listed out wRC+ and woBA. Jesus. Yes you included WAR too. Congratulations.
Yes because when deciding players worth moving on from and ones worth keeping I think most would agree grading/ranking them OVERALL actually makes more sense than picking and choosing no?
Signing Cespedes, Walker, Duda, replacing Granderson with the same level player wont impact everything else in the coming years??? We would have a 400 million dollar payroll if we kept everyone we have now forever.
haha beat me by a minute.
Signing Cespedes, Walker, Duda, replacing Granderson with the same level player wont impact everything else in the coming years??? We would have a 400 million dollar payroll if we kept everyone we have now forever.
Neil Walker's salary will not be the reason the Mets can't keep ANY player. A normal big budget team is able to expand the budget/move salaries around. The Cubs had no plans to bring back Fowler and suddenly had 8 million to burn and brought him back. Wheeler, Matz, Conforto, Syndergaard will be nowhere near "expensive" any time Walker is so it's a false argument. Matz/Conforto/Thor aren't even arbitration eligible until after the 2019 seasons and for comparisons sake Matt Harvey is making 4.325 million in year one of arbitration. I'm going to worry about Conforto/Matz's arbitration #'s year 1... after 2019? C'mon.
What in the world does the value of the Mets rotation have to do with keeping Neil Walker? Matz and Syndergaard won't even be FA until post-Neil Walker even likely being RETIRED let alone still making big money.
Mets bullpen on the year. Enjoy it, because it's amazing:
2.54 ERA (4th)
2.01 FIP (1st)
11.03 K/9 (2nd)
21.5 K-BB% (3rd)
1.8 WAR (1st)
Quote:
is worth a BILLION dollars. With a B.
What in the world does the value of the Mets rotation have to do with keeping Neil Walker? Matz and Syndergaard won't even be FA until post-Neil Walker even likely being RETIRED let alone still making big money.
You are seriously the worst. lol. You seriously think keeping and replacing every single player we have(Granderson) wont impact our payroll by a significant amount over the next 5 years ?? (Walker 4 year deal assume) WOW.
The Braves have a .579 OPS as a team so far this season. Cubs pitchers have a .591 OPS.
Best case scenario is Herrera forces the issue, and Walker makes it a tough decision due to a great year (increasing odds of a draft pick as comp). Worst case scenario is Walker struggles in NY and Herrera isn't ready.
This was a move 100% about 2016 team. But with an eye equally on 2017 plus. Literally the perfect move. It's a very repeatable move, if necessary. Next year they will make a similar decision, all about 2017 but with an eye on these following year. "Payroll and roster flexibility". It's here...
I'll take the same position I took with Cespedes. You dont HAVE to resign Walker. I'll be furious if we dont resign him just because there isnt money. But that is seeming like less and less of a concern. If they just think money is better deployed elsewhere, I say cool. We will not be without talented options at 2B that dont require potentially ruinous commitments.
The Braves have a .579 OPS as a team so far this season. Cubs pitchers have a .591 OPS.
Yeah they are pathetic. Help is on the way though Albies and Swanson are raking in the minors. Albies is hitting .351/.412/.494 in AA despite being the youngest player in the league by more than a full year.
Quote:
D.J. Short @djshort 4m4 minutes ago
The Braves have a .579 OPS as a team so far this season. Cubs pitchers have a .591 OPS.
Yeah they are pathetic. Help is on the way though Albies and Swanson are raking in the minors. Albies is hitting .351/.412/.494 in AA despite being the youngest player in the league by more than a full year.
People are comparing it to the Sixers but I disagree. Baseball allows you to load up on a bunch of "lottery tickets" at the same time and with no salary cap you can buy yourself players pretty easily. The Braves over the next 5 years scare me more than the Marlins or Nats to be honest with you (obviously for today the Nats are my biggest concern).
Best case scenario is Herrera forces the issue, and Walker makes it a tough decision due to a great year (increasing odds of a draft pick as comp). Worst case scenario is Walker struggles in NY and Herrera isn't ready.
This was a move 100% about 2016 team. But with an eye equally on 2017 plus. Literally the perfect move. It's a very repeatable move, if necessary. Next year they will make a similar decision, all about 2017 but with an eye on these following year. "Payroll and roster flexibility". It's here...
So what about the scenario where Walker thrives and has a really good year here and Dilson doesn't quite progress as hoped?
I'll take the same position I took with Cespedes. You dont HAVE to resign Walker. I'll be furious if we dont resign him just because there isnt money. But that is seeming like less and less of a concern. If they just think money is better deployed elsewhere, I say cool. We will not be without talented options at 2B that dont require potentially ruinous commitments.
Couldn't have said it better.
Then the front office pats itself on the back for saving the 2016 with the Walker trade.
Quote:
Walker was intended as a stop gap. Buys time for the team to see if Herrera will be ready next year vs forcing him in this year. Same with the SS convertible prospects to 2B.
Best case scenario is Herrera forces the issue, and Walker makes it a tough decision due to a great year (increasing odds of a draft pick as comp). Worst case scenario is Walker struggles in NY and Herrera isn't ready.
This was a move 100% about 2016 team. But with an eye equally on 2017 plus. Literally the perfect move. It's a very repeatable move, if necessary. Next year they will make a similar decision, all about 2017 but with an eye on these following year. "Payroll and roster flexibility". It's here...
So what about the scenario where Walker thrives and has a really good year here and Dilson doesn't quite progress as hoped?
What does Herrera have to do though to show he's ready is my beef. It will never be enough. He's already owned AA, then owned AAA (sore shoulder slow couple weeks this year notwithstanding) and it wasn't enough. He already held his own at the major league level and it wasn't enough. If he hits .500 in AAA with 99 HR is that enough?? People will still just say isn't "proven". Its the same thing every year.
Quote:
In comment 12927149 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
D.J. Short @djshort 4m4 minutes ago
The Braves have a .579 OPS as a team so far this season. Cubs pitchers have a .591 OPS.
Yeah they are pathetic. Help is on the way though Albies and Swanson are raking in the minors. Albies is hitting .351/.412/.494 in AA despite being the youngest player in the league by more than a full year.
People are comparing it to the Sixers but I disagree. Baseball allows you to load up on a bunch of "lottery tickets" at the same time and with no salary cap you can buy yourself players pretty easily. The Braves over the next 5 years scare me more than the Marlins or Nats to be honest with you (obviously for today the Nats are my biggest concern).
You are right I think the Braves are going to be the class on the NFC East in 3-4 years. I know that prospects don't always work out but the Braves are loaded with so many pitching prospects that even if only 40% of them work out they are set. Also they have the #3 overall pick in this years draft, likely the #1 overall pick in next years draft and are rumored to have a deal with the top IFA in years in Kevin Maitan. What they lack is power bats but their future infield looks incredible.
Best move would be to recoup the pick.
OR if Wright is truly retiring (not sure about that) consider him as a #B option.
Then the front office pats itself on the back for saving the 2016 with the Walker trade.
LOL, yes. I mean.. if things continue to go this way, how do they approach it down the road? Do they say "well, we have a known quality here and he helps keep our window open, let's make a push to extend him" ? ... do they look for another established player (I don't know who will be available or who they could acquire.. haven't looked at all) to be another stop gap or do they just put Herrera out there and hope for the best?
Quote:
In comment 12927158 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 12927149 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
D.J. Short @djshort 4m4 minutes ago
The Braves have a .579 OPS as a team so far this season. Cubs pitchers have a .591 OPS.
Yeah they are pathetic. Help is on the way though Albies and Swanson are raking in the minors. Albies is hitting .351/.412/.494 in AA despite being the youngest player in the league by more than a full year.
People are comparing it to the Sixers but I disagree. Baseball allows you to load up on a bunch of "lottery tickets" at the same time and with no salary cap you can buy yourself players pretty easily. The Braves over the next 5 years scare me more than the Marlins or Nats to be honest with you (obviously for today the Nats are my biggest concern).
You are right I think the Braves are going to be the class on the NFC East in 3-4 years. I know that prospects don't always work out but the Braves are loaded with so many pitching prospects that even if only 40% of them work out they are set. Also they have the #3 overall pick in this years draft, likely the #1 overall pick in next years draft and are rumored to have a deal with the top IFA in years in Kevin Maitan. What they lack is power bats but their future infield looks incredible.
You are discounting what is going on in Philly....
Quote:
In comment 12927151 Shecky said:
Quote:
Walker was intended as a stop gap. Buys time for the team to see if Herrera will be ready next year vs forcing him in this year. Same with the SS convertible prospects to 2B.
Best case scenario is Herrera forces the issue, and Walker makes it a tough decision due to a great year (increasing odds of a draft pick as comp). Worst case scenario is Walker struggles in NY and Herrera isn't ready.
This was a move 100% about 2016 team. But with an eye equally on 2017 plus. Literally the perfect move. It's a very repeatable move, if necessary. Next year they will make a similar decision, all about 2017 but with an eye on these following year. "Payroll and roster flexibility". It's here...
So what about the scenario where Walker thrives and has a really good year here and Dilson doesn't quite progress as hoped?
What does Herrera have to do though to show he's ready is my beef. It will never be enough. He's already owned AA, then owned AAA (sore shoulder slow couple weeks this year notwithstanding) and it wasn't enough. He already held his own at the major league level and it wasn't enough. If he hits .500 in AAA with 99 HR is that enough?? People will still just say isn't "proven". Its the same thing every year.
I don't think that's true. If he posts a really solid year in Vegas and looks like there's nothing left for him to do there, that's fine. He's struggled a bit out of the gates though.. it's not like it's a forgone conclusion he's going to wind up having a great year. He could.. but who knows. What if he doesn't?
If he's ready, you pray you get a pick for Walker. But the rest of the roster will certainly have much less question marks on it (Wrgiht, TDA, Legares, Duda).
Quote:
You mean like how it looks today? Lol
Then the front office pats itself on the back for saving the 2016 with the Walker trade.
LOL, yes. I mean.. if things continue to go this way, how do they approach it down the road? Do they say "well, we have a known quality here and he helps keep our window open, let's make a push to extend him" ? ... do they look for another established player (I don't know who will be available or who they could acquire.. haven't looked at all) to be another stop gap or do they just put Herrera out there and hope for the best?
Missed this but part of my previous post would answer it. If Herrera is starting, they have a very good plan B in place (vet, positional flexibility, other ready prospect etc) they also will have less uncertainty on the roster if he is starting, softening the blow if he isn't ready and his success is less vital.
In a perfect world it works. And your future is brighter. More payroll, and adding another top prospect with a pick. Not hurting the current while pumping up the window.
Quote:
In comment 12927179 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 12927151 Shecky said:
Quote:
Walker was intended as a stop gap. Buys time for the team to see if Herrera will be ready next year vs forcing him in this year. Same with the SS convertible prospects to 2B.
Best case scenario is Herrera forces the issue, and Walker makes it a tough decision due to a great year (increasing odds of a draft pick as comp). Worst case scenario is Walker struggles in NY and Herrera isn't ready.
This was a move 100% about 2016 team. But with an eye equally on 2017 plus. Literally the perfect move. It's a very repeatable move, if necessary. Next year they will make a similar decision, all about 2017 but with an eye on these following year. "Payroll and roster flexibility". It's here...
So what about the scenario where Walker thrives and has a really good year here and Dilson doesn't quite progress as hoped?
What does Herrera have to do though to show he's ready is my beef. It will never be enough. He's already owned AA, then owned AAA (sore shoulder slow couple weeks this year notwithstanding) and it wasn't enough. He already held his own at the major league level and it wasn't enough. If he hits .500 in AAA with 99 HR is that enough?? People will still just say isn't "proven". Its the same thing every year.
I don't think that's true. If he posts a really solid year in Vegas and looks like there's nothing left for him to do there, that's fine. He's struggled a bit out of the gates though.. it's not like it's a forgone conclusion he's going to wind up having a great year. He could.. but who knows. What if he doesn't?
Ok well that's a completely different argument. Herrera has owned every level for years now and put up video games numbers in the minors. I didn't know people were alarmed and upset over Herrera's cold first two weeks to the season. If they think that's what Herrera will do all year? Then I totally get needing or wanting to sign Walker. I just didn't even know that thought existed. I assume Herrera will go right back to mashing in Vegas any day now.
He's opting out. I know that. Today the Mets likely let him walk. I was envisioning a perfect world where things might change between now and then (like last year) and Cespedes has a huge year, plays CF better than expected possibly, carries the Mets to the postseason, he's wants to come back to the Mets(at a cost of course) and there might be another possible reunion. I know that likely isn't the view now but I could see things changing.
I would just hope that we'd be willing to take another route if there was doubt within the org. that he was the answer going forward.
Also I like Walker a lot. Really happy we have him. I just view it as every season will have its story. Last year it was Murphy. Hopefully this year Walker is a big part of this group. Next year who knows. Its all good though. The Mets have done nothing but make the correct decisions in regards to just about everything.
I don't think it will be worth it. I doubt they would get fair value for a 36 year old OF. Also if Cespedes and Walker leave via free agency the Mets will need to hope that Granderson doesn't fall apart next season too which at his age is somewhat likely.
Quote:
in the offseason, to make room for Ces as a RF (notwithstanding his thoughts about that position)? Grandy will be owed 15 million for his final season. Not a bad bet for a team that needs a hitter and doesnt want to delve into the ultra expensive UFA market.
I don't think it will be worth it. I doubt they would get fair value for a 36 year old OF. Also if Cespedes and Walker leave via free agency the Mets will need to hope that Granderson doesn't fall apart next season too which at his age is somewhat likely.
Well the point of a Grandy trade is to open a corner OF slot to resign Ces. You dont trade Grandy without Ces signing on. And I dont know that they'd sign both and risk sitting one or playing one in CF next year.
Hansel: 13.50 K/9, 1.80 ERA
Bastardo: 14.46 K/9, 2.89 ERA
Reed: 11.25 K/9, 2.25 ERA
Hendo: 14.09 K/9, 1.17 ERA
Brian P. Mangan @brianpmangan
Highest FIP is Bastardo at 2.25, lowest FIP is Robles at 1.01 (!!)
The lowest swinging strike rate is 14.1% (league average RP is 13.0%).
Hansel: 13.50 K/9, 1.80 ERA
Bastardo: 14.46 K/9, 2.89 ERA
Reed: 11.25 K/9, 2.25 ERA
Hendo: 14.09 K/9, 1.17 ERA
Brian P. Mangan @brianpmangan
Highest FIP is Bastardo at 2.25, lowest FIP is Robles at 1.01 (!!)
The lowest swinging strike rate is 14.1% (league average RP is 13.0%).
Unless I'm missing something, Familia actually has the highest FIP (2.57)
Hansel: 13.50 K/9, 1.80 ERA
Bastardo: 14.46 K/9, 2.89 ERA
Reed: 11.25 K/9, 2.25 ERA
Hendo: 14.09 K/9, 1.17 ERA
Brian P. Mangan @brianpmangan
Highest FIP is Bastardo at 2.25, lowest FIP is Robles at 1.01 (!!)
The lowest swinging strike rate is 14.1% (league average RP is 13.0%).
Been saying it for weeks. Those peripherals are through the roof. Outstanding.
Link - ( New Window )
Yoenis Cespedes since being traded to the Mets last July: .290/.345/.621 with 23 home runs and 61 RBI over 316 PA's
Link - ( New Window )
PREACH!!!
Also the Yanks are in trouble and the brave are bound to get better.
Awful. So glad we didn't trade for that loser.
Seriously, other than Dickey I can't recall a guy at this age turning into such an animal.
Drop dickey from rotation? - ( New Window )
I'd actually love to see Dickey in our bullpen. I feel like he'd be absolutely nuts coming in after Thor + a nice bow at the end of the Thor/TDA deal.
Awful. So glad we didn't trade for that loser.
It's official. Mets franchise has turned it around :)
Instead of the breaks going against them, they finally seem to be getting some. Acquiring Gomez and then him tanking is such a "Met thing to do" until now.
Seriously, other than Dickey I can't recall a guy at this age turning into such an animal.
My favorite ODOAT (old dude on another team) is Ross Ohlendorf. His Satchel Paige windup is the greatest thing I've seen in ever.
even in the loss column now.