In 4 years, he had 0 INT's and only 4 - FOUR passes defensed. This indicates that he might be able to stay with somebody in coverage but isn't doing a damn thing to stop it.
Jesus, every time I look deeper I see something new to hate.
can put pressure on a Qb AND cover Witten, et al..Maybe we can get off the fieldon 3rd and 7 or 8...
If we don't draft someone who can stick with TEs, it won't matter WHO we draft. I'm stick of long drives wearing down our D late in the game..
Think people..WHEN have we had that?
Fiddy Six... there is very little evidence that Floyd will be able to come in and cover Witten. His coverage skills have been vastly overblown. It's one thing to have the speed to keep up... it's another to have ball skills and good technique. The potential is there, but that's it at this point.
by a team like the Cowboys. With their offensive line, and with how Romo handles the pass rush with pump fakes, screens and draws, I can see it getting ugly.
Based on that tape, I'm not even sure he is the best player on the
PatersonPlank : 11:20 am : link : reply
Georgia D. If someone wants to push him they should have selected a better game.
You guys can tell me if I'm wrong because I really don't follow draft hype, but aren't most highlight tapes filled with plays where the person in question is excelling?
I'm not lying when I say I haven't yet seen a clip of Floyd driving a RB to the ground or making a game-changing play. I haven't seen any INT's or even caused fumbles. Put it this way, for a guy supposedly strong in coverage, I've seen more completions against him that INT's.
Doesn't almost every top prospect have a highlight reel where people gasp a few times? That's when I started being Anti-Floyd - when I'd watch clips and wonder when the guy was going to do something other than being pedestrian. I see the quickness. I see the wingspan. I see the fluidity. Why am I not seeing any of that translate into the type of impact one will expect from #10?
I could be wrong, but I think the site where the clip in the OP is more about scouting clips, not necessarily highlight reels. I did find the highlight reel on Floyd that is linked here on youtube, and this shows more of his "highlight-reel" plays, especially in throwing the RB to the ground just after the 1:00 mark.
For the record, I'm not a Floyd supporter or detractor, but I do think he would add an element that is lacking in the middle level of the Giants defense. I won't root for him to fail if they do draft him, but depending on how the draft plays out tonight and who is available when they pick, if Floyd goes over some guys I think would be a better fit there would be some mild disappointment. We'll see what happens. Link - ( New Window )
can put pressure on a Qb AND cover Witten, et al..Maybe we can get off the fieldon 3rd and 7 or 8...
If we don't draft someone who can stick with TEs, it won't matter WHO we draft. I'm stick of long drives wearing down our D late in the game..
Think people..WHEN have we had that?
Fiddy Six... there is very little evidence that Floyd will be able to come in and cover Witten. His coverage skills have been vastly overblown. It's one thing to have the speed to keep up... it's another to have ball skills and good technique. The potential is there, but that's it at this point.
Problem is, there are those respected people who think he does..Personally, I have no idea..Very few are going to change their minds. But, if the Giants firmly believe (with Spags at the helm) we'll stand a better (much?) chance with TEs, then, as KWALL et al have pointed out, JPP, Vernon, Floyd, Snack and Hankins are a pretty decent lot to trot out there..
I keep seeing posts about his coverage abilities...
what is undisputed is that he can run with most players on the field. I'm not so sure I agree that he can COVER anyone one the field. As Fatman is alluding to, you see very few plays on his tape where he makes a play on the ball in air.
his tackling issues are overblown and then go on to talk about his excellent coverage skills.
In 3 years, to total just 4 pass defenses and 0 INT's isn't really supporting the view he's "excellent". I know INT's for LB's aren't the best indicator, but you'd think there'd at least be some passes broken up or defended in there.
his tackling issues are overblown and then go on to talk about his excellent coverage skills.
In 3 years, to total just 4 pass defenses and 0 INT's isn't really supporting the view he's "excellent". I know INT's for LB's aren't the best indicator, but you'd think there'd at least be some passes broken up or defended in there.
You missed what he did in the last few deciding minutes of the game.
1. He forced a holding penalty.
2. He tackled a RB for a loss.
3. He forced an intentional grounding penalty on the QB who barely got rid of the ball as Floyd was sacking him.
I'm no expert talent elevator, but I could see those 3 things were key to helping GA win the fricking game.
You missed what he did in the last few deciding minutes of the game.
1. He forced a holding penalty.
2. He tackled a RB for a loss.
3. He forced an intentional grounding penalty on the QB who barely got rid of the ball as Floyd was sacking him.
I'm no expert talent elevator, but I could see those 3 things were key to helping GA win the fricking game.
You're right. I didn't watch the last 40 seconds. Not sure where 40 seconds becomes half the video.
After QB and WR, pass rusher is the most valuable commodity in the game today.
So, guys like Elliot and Conklin might be rated higher at their positions than Floyd is at his, but his position is worth more. That's what it makes it hard to compare. Also, what makes the draft such a multi-dimensional process.
he's better suited as a pass rusher in a 3-4. In the 4-3, he's going to be a LB predominantly and he'll have to do those pesky LB jobs like hitting the RB coming right at him.
Can and will offenses in the NFL scheme to attack this player's weaknesses? Yes. Especially if he's used solely as a 4-3 o/u edge setter. That would be poor coaching on Spags.
His AA and awareness suggests he can be a weapon in space as a WILL on early downs and excel in rush/drop zone schemes in sub packages. All depends on his football IQ and his ability to understand run fits from the second level.
If he's interviewed well in that regard, Spags should be standing on the table for this guy.
what is the relative difference between a 2nd round OT vs. Conklin as opposed to a later round LB compared to Floyd? We've been settling for later round LBs for years and have failed every time since Armstead in the early 90s. OTOH, we've gotten some pretty decent OLmen in later rounds.
Originally a skeptic due mostly to my own preconceived notions of what a LBer is supposed to look like and weigh.
In that game, he continually brought it from snap one to last snap despite the uptempo and quick releases.
He owned his edge the entire game. They attempted to pull and swing the tackle and test him only a few times, but he used his length to win the edge every single time. Even on the play they slid a TE under him into the flat, he recognized it and took it away.
Only one time did I see a blocker latch on and it was called for holding. He shed his man quickly and was around the ball a lot.
This player absolutely has elite AA, uses his hands and long arms well, has a good motor, and most importantly appeared to recognize plays and maintain an awareness for the ball.
That's what I saw. I guess people see what they want to see. He was a bit lost on a play here or there, but most of the times he was controlled he was double-teamed. In many instances, he occupied two linemen and someone else got the pressure. I have no problem there. Also, there were 2-3 remarkable plays (not including the spin move thing), see 8:06 for my favorite.
I will say, across all the tapes, he seems to tackle way up high wrapping arms around the should pads...that is my he sometimes rides the other player for a yard or two after the initial contact.
I am not an expert by the way, this is just what I saw ... I'd be happy to have him as a Giant, what what do I know?
he's better suited as a pass rusher in a 3-4. In the 4-3, he's going to be a LB predominantly and he'll have to do those pesky LB jobs like hitting the RB coming right at him.
I'm still waiting to see a clip of him making an impact hit on a RB. I'm going to stop asking for pass defections or INT's since one doesn't exist and the other would be like finding a needle in a haystack.
But we've established he can push a TE into the backfield as the RB goes for a gain. Fantastic.
I'm still waiting to see a clip of him making an impact hit on a RB. I'm going to stop asking for pass defections or INT's since one doesn't exist and the other would be like finding a needle in a haystack.
But we've established he can push a TE into the backfield as the RB goes for a gain. Fantastic.
The drag-down tackles are the worst, for me. If that's how he got guys down in college, he's not going to be blowing anybody up in the NFL. Especially with that frame. What Top 10 LB can't blow people up in the NFL?
so you expect highlight reel plays throughout every minute of every game? As if LT himself was never taken out of a play and had 20-30 sacks a game (I am NOT comparing the two, just saying you're not being realistic, imo).
As someone else above pointed out, this was not a highlight reel. It was one game and he was often double teamed and in the end he made some highlight reel plays that were critical to his team winning.
I don't have time to argue. I know I'll be trusting Reese and co. at least in the first round tonight.
I expect him to make some plays. He rarely did. You can read my comments above.
I'm open to what Reese and co may see in him and will cheer for the guy if they pick him. The highlights, analysis, and game "tapes" don't show a guy I am overly impressed with. I'm far from the only one.
look at the actual "highlight" reels that do exist. They aren't even impressive. There's one out there put together to hype him for the draft that actually highlight him covering a WR, and then that player makes a catch. They will show an arrow on Floyd showing him making a spin move to get to the QB and the QB gets rid of the ball (and completes it!). They show him shedding a block and then having a RB run through his poor attempt at an arm tackle.
And it is his highlights! I'm starting to understand why. When a guy has very few turnovers created, has 0 INT's and only 4 defended passes, it is probably tough to find plays where he's making an impact. At this point, I'm almost completely convinced he's never sent a RB backwards on a one-on-one tackle.
look at the actual "highlight" reels that do exist. They aren't even impressive. There's one out there put together to hype him for the draft that actually highlight him covering a WR, and then that player makes a catch. They will show an arrow on Floyd showing him making a spin move to get to the QB and the QB gets rid of the ball (and completes it!). They show him shedding a block and then having a RB run through his poor attempt at an arm tackle.
And it is his highlights! I'm starting to understand why. When a guy has very few turnovers created, has 0 INT's and only 4 defended passes, it is probably tough to find plays where he's making an impact. At this point, I'm almost completely convinced he's never sent a RB backwards on a one-on-one tackle.
Look at this link I have, I posted this in reply to you earlier but I guess you missed it. It does have some of the highlights you're looking for. Mostly playing forward to the LOS though, not much in coverage.
Again, I'm not a Floyd guy but to be fair, there are actually highlight clips of him. Link - ( New Window )
I've seen those clips. And outside of him picking up a RB and throwing him down, he still doesn't have tape of him driving a RB backwards. Almost every tackle is him dragging a guy down from the side or behind. There's actually two clips of him getting to the QB and the QB escaping!
I see a fast guy who is often in on a play with others, not making the play by himself, especially when it isn't him rushing the QB.
RE: In the Alabama clips, the middle linebacker Kimbro was the best
I've seen those clips. And outside of him picking up a RB and throwing him down, he still doesn't have tape of him driving a RB backwards. Almost every tackle is him dragging a guy down from the side or behind. There's actually two clips of him getting to the QB and the QB escaping!
I see a fast guy who is often in on a play with others, not making the play by himself, especially when it isn't him rushing the QB.
I'm with you. Not impressed at all. Very lack luster video's. He is fast......so are many other players.
that this isn't some guy who just picked up the game, or is playing at Connecticut State with raw talent that we will try to develop. He's playing for Georgia and is rarely dominating his opponent.
24 years old and hasn't learned how to deliver a hard hit. Is he just going to all of a sudden change?
RE: As Fats has said, I'd be fine with him as a second or third round pick
1. Who's better than him at 10?
2. Think JPP who everybody said was a reach at 17. You're drafting upside with him.
3. Maybe Georgia didn't use him the exact way Giants want to.
Are the posters who refute that he doesnt make any plays use the ridiculous rhetoric "oh he was misused at GA." That defense was one of the best in college football....maybe he was used perfectly.
The guy didn't make plays on the ball in pass coverage and couldn't consistently get to the QB in college. How can any of his fans insist that he will do that in the pros?
the guy had 17 sacks and in his senior year he recovered 1 fumble and forced none and he had no INT's.
His impact plays are very low. When half of his highlights are QB pressures, that should say something.
A lot of people are seeing the video and are unimpressed. Those that are impressed see a quick first step and good agility.
What plays out there are people going "WOW!" over? I've watched probably over 30 minutes of clips of him and there's a play where he has an impressive sack and a play where he body slams a RB who tried to leap over him. The other plays aren't really anything out of the ordinary and SHOULD make you question how this is a potential #10 pick.
In 4 years, he had 0 INT's and only 4 - FOUR passes defensed. This indicates that he might be able to stay with somebody in coverage but isn't doing a damn thing to stop it.
Jesus, every time I look deeper I see something new to hate.
He seems to have good football instincts. He seems to know his assignments.
Great first step and speed. Moves well in space, really well.
No, he's not the most physical player, but he brings a lot that the Giants don't have now and haven't had for some time.
In that game, he continually brought it from snap one to last snap despite the uptempo and quick releases.
The play at 5:16 stands out. He jogged that one pretty badly.
If we don't draft someone who can stick with TEs, it won't matter WHO we draft. I'm stick of long drives wearing down our D late in the game..
Think people..WHEN have we had that?
Fiddy Six... there is very little evidence that Floyd will be able to come in and cover Witten. His coverage skills have been vastly overblown. It's one thing to have the speed to keep up... it's another to have ball skills and good technique. The potential is there, but that's it at this point.
Quote:
Based on that tape, I'm not even sure he is the best player on the
PatersonPlank : 11:20 am : link : reply
Georgia D. If someone wants to push him they should have selected a better game.
You guys can tell me if I'm wrong because I really don't follow draft hype, but aren't most highlight tapes filled with plays where the person in question is excelling?
I'm not lying when I say I haven't yet seen a clip of Floyd driving a RB to the ground or making a game-changing play. I haven't seen any INT's or even caused fumbles. Put it this way, for a guy supposedly strong in coverage, I've seen more completions against him that INT's.
Doesn't almost every top prospect have a highlight reel where people gasp a few times? That's when I started being Anti-Floyd - when I'd watch clips and wonder when the guy was going to do something other than being pedestrian. I see the quickness. I see the wingspan. I see the fluidity. Why am I not seeing any of that translate into the type of impact one will expect from #10?
I could be wrong, but I think the site where the clip in the OP is more about scouting clips, not necessarily highlight reels. I did find the highlight reel on Floyd that is linked here on youtube, and this shows more of his "highlight-reel" plays, especially in throwing the RB to the ground just after the 1:00 mark.
For the record, I'm not a Floyd supporter or detractor, but I do think he would add an element that is lacking in the middle level of the Giants defense. I won't root for him to fail if they do draft him, but depending on how the draft plays out tonight and who is available when they pick, if Floyd goes over some guys I think would be a better fit there would be some mild disappointment. We'll see what happens.
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
can put pressure on a Qb AND cover Witten, et al..Maybe we can get off the fieldon 3rd and 7 or 8...
If we don't draft someone who can stick with TEs, it won't matter WHO we draft. I'm stick of long drives wearing down our D late in the game..
Think people..WHEN have we had that?
Fiddy Six... there is very little evidence that Floyd will be able to come in and cover Witten. His coverage skills have been vastly overblown. It's one thing to have the speed to keep up... it's another to have ball skills and good technique. The potential is there, but that's it at this point.
Problem is, there are those respected people who think he does..Personally, I have no idea..Very few are going to change their minds. But, if the Giants firmly believe (with Spags at the helm) we'll stand a better (much?) chance with TEs, then, as KWALL et al have pointed out, JPP, Vernon, Floyd, Snack and Hankins are a pretty decent lot to trot out there..
In 3 years, to total just 4 pass defenses and 0 INT's isn't really supporting the view he's "excellent". I know INT's for LB's aren't the best indicator, but you'd think there'd at least be some passes broken up or defended in there.
In 3 years, to total just 4 pass defenses and 0 INT's isn't really supporting the view he's "excellent". I know INT's for LB's aren't the best indicator, but you'd think there'd at least be some passes broken up or defended in there.
Ty for sharing that pass defense stats.
Sounds like the hype is blown up on this guy
1. He forced a holding penalty.
2. He tackled a RB for a loss.
3. He forced an intentional grounding penalty on the QB who barely got rid of the ball as Floyd was sacking him.
I'm no expert talent elevator, but I could see those 3 things were key to helping GA win the fricking game.
1. He forced a holding penalty.
2. He tackled a RB for a loss.
3. He forced an intentional grounding penalty on the QB who barely got rid of the ball as Floyd was sacking him.
I'm no expert talent elevator, but I could see those 3 things were key to helping GA win the fricking game.
You're right. I didn't watch the last 40 seconds. Not sure where 40 seconds becomes half the video.
So, guys like Elliot and Conklin might be rated higher at their positions than Floyd is at his, but his position is worth more. That's what it makes it hard to compare. Also, what makes the draft such a multi-dimensional process.
His AA and awareness suggests he can be a weapon in space as a WILL on early downs and excel in rush/drop zone schemes in sub packages. All depends on his football IQ and his ability to understand run fits from the second level.
If he's interviewed well in that regard, Spags should be standing on the table for this guy.
In that game, he continually brought it from snap one to last snap despite the uptempo and quick releases.
He owned his edge the entire game. They attempted to pull and swing the tackle and test him only a few times, but he used his length to win the edge every single time. Even on the play they slid a TE under him into the flat, he recognized it and took it away.
Only one time did I see a blocker latch on and it was called for holding. He shed his man quickly and was around the ball a lot.
This player absolutely has elite AA, uses his hands and long arms well, has a good motor, and most importantly appeared to recognize plays and maintain an awareness for the ball.
That's what I saw. I guess people see what they want to see. He was a bit lost on a play here or there, but most of the times he was controlled he was double-teamed. In many instances, he occupied two linemen and someone else got the pressure. I have no problem there. Also, there were 2-3 remarkable plays (not including the spin move thing), see 8:06 for my favorite.
I will say, across all the tapes, he seems to tackle way up high wrapping arms around the should pads...that is my he sometimes rides the other player for a yard or two after the initial contact.
I am not an expert by the way, this is just what I saw ... I'd be happy to have him as a Giant, what what do I know?
His game up until the last 40 seconds of a 8:40 video was thoroughly unimpressive for a top 10 pick.
Like this?
or this?
He's not impressive in run support.
Against Vanderbilt he played most of the game as an ILB. And about 25 snaps at SLB.
A) he bullied a freshman 220 lb TE.
B) If he did that with any consistency, there wouldn't be as many questions about him.
But we've established he can push a TE into the backfield as the RB goes for a gain. Fantastic.
But we've established he can push a TE into the backfield as the RB goes for a gain. Fantastic.
The drag-down tackles are the worst, for me. If that's how he got guys down in college, he's not going to be blowing anybody up in the NFL. Especially with that frame. What Top 10 LB can't blow people up in the NFL?
As someone else above pointed out, this was not a highlight reel. It was one game and he was often double teamed and in the end he made some highlight reel plays that were critical to his team winning.
I don't have time to argue. I know I'll be trusting Reese and co. at least in the first round tonight.
I'm open to what Reese and co may see in him and will cheer for the guy if they pick him. The highlights, analysis, and game "tapes" don't show a guy I am overly impressed with. I'm far from the only one.
And it is his highlights! I'm starting to understand why. When a guy has very few turnovers created, has 0 INT's and only 4 defended passes, it is probably tough to find plays where he's making an impact. At this point, I'm almost completely convinced he's never sent a RB backwards on a one-on-one tackle.
And it is his highlights! I'm starting to understand why. When a guy has very few turnovers created, has 0 INT's and only 4 defended passes, it is probably tough to find plays where he's making an impact. At this point, I'm almost completely convinced he's never sent a RB backwards on a one-on-one tackle.
Look at this link I have, I posted this in reply to you earlier but I guess you missed it. It does have some of the highlights you're looking for. Mostly playing forward to the LOS though, not much in coverage.
Again, I'm not a Floyd guy but to be fair, there are actually highlight clips of him.
Link - ( New Window )
I see a fast guy who is often in on a play with others, not making the play by himself, especially when it isn't him rushing the QB.
Bama ran his way..maybe 3 times.
I see a fast guy who is often in on a play with others, not making the play by himself, especially when it isn't him rushing the QB.
I'm with you. Not impressed at all. Very lack luster video's. He is fast......so are many other players.
24 years old and hasn't learned how to deliver a hard hit. Is he just going to all of a sudden change?
This.............
2. Think JPP who everybody said was a reach at 17. You're drafting upside with him.
3. Maybe Georgia didn't use him the exact way Giants want to.
The guy didn't make plays on the ball in pass coverage and couldn't consistently get to the QB in college. How can any of his fans insist that he will do that in the pros?
His impact plays are very low. When half of his highlights are QB pressures, that should say something.
A lot of people are seeing the video and are unimpressed. Those that are impressed see a quick first step and good agility.
What plays out there are people going "WOW!" over? I've watched probably over 30 minutes of clips of him and there's a play where he has an impressive sack and a play where he body slams a RB who tried to leap over him. The other plays aren't really anything out of the ordinary and SHOULD make you question how this is a potential #10 pick.